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	<title>Comments on: Winning Now, Part I</title>
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	<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/</link>
	<description>A Lakers Blog. Thoughts, reflections, and the odd rant on the Los Angeles Lakers and the NBA (even the Clippers).</description>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-98550</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 18:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-98550</guid>
		<description>Warren, Andre Miller moving is not likely, and even if he does LA is not a likely destination. Eric Pincus (who I like) throws a lot of stuff against the wall at Hoopsworld and Laker Ground, but that doesn&#039;t make it likely.

And it&#039;s pointless to speculate on what the Celtics might do before the lottery, same with Memphis and other teams with a good shot at a top two pick. Everything for them hinges on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren, Andre Miller moving is not likely, and even if he does LA is not a likely destination. Eric Pincus (who I like) throws a lot of stuff against the wall at Hoopsworld and Laker Ground, but that doesn&#8217;t make it likely.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s pointless to speculate on what the Celtics might do before the lottery, same with Memphis and other teams with a good shot at a top two pick. Everything for them hinges on that.</p>
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		<title>By: Rico</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-98483</link>
		<dc:creator>Rico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 16:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-98483</guid>
		<description>warren,
I think that Andre Miller is an upgrade over our current PG situation, but I don&#039;t think he&#039;s worth any of the guys we&#039;d have to trade to make up 8m salary... 

we&#039;re getting back 14ppg &amp; 7.8apg, but only a 20% 3pt shooter.... and that&#039;s among the most critical pieces in our offense... 
not to mention, he&#039;s not THAT good a perimiter defender, he jumps passing lanes w/ lanky arms... but I&#039;ve never seen him prevent quick guards from doing what they want 
and he&#039;s short (6-2), and getting old (31)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>warren,<br />
I think that Andre Miller is an upgrade over our current PG situation, but I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s worth any of the guys we&#8217;d have to trade to make up 8m salary&#8230; </p>
<p>we&#8217;re getting back 14ppg &amp; 7.8apg, but only a 20% 3pt shooter&#8230;. and that&#8217;s among the most critical pieces in our offense&#8230;<br />
not to mention, he&#8217;s not THAT good a perimiter defender, he jumps passing lanes w/ lanky arms&#8230; but I&#8217;ve never seen him prevent quick guards from doing what they want<br />
and he&#8217;s short (6-2), and getting old (31)</p>
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		<title>By: warren (philippines)</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-98410</link>
		<dc:creator>warren (philippines)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 15:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-98410</guid>
		<description>FASTBREAK THOUGHTS ON SHAKEUPS:
For shake-ups sake, I&#039;m entertaining the trades of Major players this summer:

PAUL PIERCE - possibly to Dallas
SHAWN MARION - possibly to Boston
DIRK NOWITZKI - possibly to Boston
MIKE BIBBY - possibly to Cleveland
RON ARTEST - anywhere but Sacramento
ANDRE MILLER - possibly to LA Lakers
VINCE CARTER - possibly to Orlando

I like the idea of Boston making a move for Marion. Give up Theo Ratliff&#039;s contract plus Al Jefferson and Telfair for Marion and Piatkowski. It will surely make Pierce happy.

I think Vince Carter will opt out and sign with Orlando.

Bibby for Snow and Gooden, then Cleveland re-signs Varejao.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FASTBREAK THOUGHTS ON SHAKEUPS:<br />
For shake-ups sake, I&#8217;m entertaining the trades of Major players this summer:</p>
<p>PAUL PIERCE &#8211; possibly to Dallas<br />
SHAWN MARION &#8211; possibly to Boston<br />
DIRK NOWITZKI &#8211; possibly to Boston<br />
MIKE BIBBY &#8211; possibly to Cleveland<br />
RON ARTEST &#8211; anywhere but Sacramento<br />
ANDRE MILLER &#8211; possibly to LA Lakers<br />
VINCE CARTER &#8211; possibly to Orlando</p>
<p>I like the idea of Boston making a move for Marion. Give up Theo Ratliff&#8217;s contract plus Al Jefferson and Telfair for Marion and Piatkowski. It will surely make Pierce happy.</p>
<p>I think Vince Carter will opt out and sign with Orlando.</p>
<p>Bibby for Snow and Gooden, then Cleveland re-signs Varejao.</p>
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		<title>By: warren (philippines)</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-98398</link>
		<dc:creator>warren (philippines)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 15:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-98398</guid>
		<description>Draft Lottery Day is a special day to determine what goes and stays. Here we can now surmise on who teams could possibly be getting. I like the idea that Dirk Nowitzki will make history as the 1st ever MVP dealt after the year he exited the playoffs through a huge huge upset. 

Assuming the odds are followed, here are some assumptions I&#039;ve made:
1. Oden to Memphis, Gasol stays.
2. Durant to Boston, Pierce could be dealt.
3. Horford to Milwaukee, Mo Williams re-signed.
4. Joakim Noah to Phoenix and Marion is considered to be traded.
5. Yi Jianlan to Seattle and Rashard re-signs.
6. Corey Brewer to Portland, Zach Randolph stays. Magloire released.
7. Brandan Wright to Minny, KG still hostaged. 
8. Julian Wright to Cats, GWallace signs new contract.
9. Spencer Hawes to Bulls, packaged for something.
10. Roy Hibbert to Sactown, Bibby and Artest shopped.
11. Mike Conley to Atlanta. Nothing happening there.
12. Acie Law to Philly, Andre Miller dealt to Lakers
13. Jeff Green to New Orleans, Mason not re-signed.
14. Jason Smith to the Clips, they remain mediocre. 
15. Al Thornton to Detroit, Billups re-signed.
16. Thaddeus Young to Wiz, Haywood traded. (Knicks?)
17. Tiago Splitter to New Jersey, Carter opts out.
18. NIck Young to GSW, Nellie for Mayor.
19. Javaris Crittenton  to Lakers, dealt for Andre Miller.
20. Brandon Rush to Miami, Posey out, Jwill shopped.

Ok I&#039;ll stop here. Obvoisly no moves are made until after the Draft is official. It will tell teams where they are heading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Draft Lottery Day is a special day to determine what goes and stays. Here we can now surmise on who teams could possibly be getting. I like the idea that Dirk Nowitzki will make history as the 1st ever MVP dealt after the year he exited the playoffs through a huge huge upset. </p>
<p>Assuming the odds are followed, here are some assumptions I&#8217;ve made:<br />
1. Oden to Memphis, Gasol stays.<br />
2. Durant to Boston, Pierce could be dealt.<br />
3. Horford to Milwaukee, Mo Williams re-signed.<br />
4. Joakim Noah to Phoenix and Marion is considered to be traded.<br />
5. Yi Jianlan to Seattle and Rashard re-signs.<br />
6. Corey Brewer to Portland, Zach Randolph stays. Magloire released.<br />
7. Brandan Wright to Minny, KG still hostaged.<br />
8. Julian Wright to Cats, GWallace signs new contract.<br />
9. Spencer Hawes to Bulls, packaged for something.<br />
10. Roy Hibbert to Sactown, Bibby and Artest shopped.<br />
11. Mike Conley to Atlanta. Nothing happening there.<br />
12. Acie Law to Philly, Andre Miller dealt to Lakers<br />
13. Jeff Green to New Orleans, Mason not re-signed.<br />
14. Jason Smith to the Clips, they remain mediocre.<br />
15. Al Thornton to Detroit, Billups re-signed.<br />
16. Thaddeus Young to Wiz, Haywood traded. (Knicks?)<br />
17. Tiago Splitter to New Jersey, Carter opts out.<br />
18. NIck Young to GSW, Nellie for Mayor.<br />
19. Javaris Crittenton  to Lakers, dealt for Andre Miller.<br />
20. Brandon Rush to Miami, Posey out, Jwill shopped.</p>
<p>Ok I&#8217;ll stop here. Obvoisly no moves are made until after the Draft is official. It will tell teams where they are heading.</p>
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		<title>By: warren (philippines)</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-98377</link>
		<dc:creator>warren (philippines)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 14:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-98377</guid>
		<description>I dont see why the love for AK and FISH over LO and Luke chopperdave. Those two do not provide offense and do not facilitate the offense. Defensively they are upgrades but after making that change, we&#039;d now be looking for another offensive player to balance on Kobe.

My eyes are on Farmar and Mihm. Those two players, when coming off the bench playing 20-25 mins, we are quite solid on those positions. I suggest that we move Mo Evans to the starting lineup and Walton to be the 6th man. I personally like Luke&#039;s game but I see him more as a trade bait this summer. If no improvements are made, we can still keep him. 

Again I don&#039;t see how no one seems to like the Andre Miller idea. The possibility of a deal done with is quite distant yet, but defensively and offensively, Andre&#039;s the guy for us. Then Camby can be swapped for Kwame. I dont think anyone would argue on this. I&#039;d only assume Bynum is required then Reggie Evans or Najera is added. I&#039;d still like it. 

I made a run at the lottery machine today and saw the possibility that Philly could land Acie Law on the 14th. That should make them consider that dealing Andre might be an option to clear off the payroll. Get Luke and Cook and another draft pick, possibly Tiago Splitter or Javaris Crittenton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont see why the love for AK and FISH over LO and Luke chopperdave. Those two do not provide offense and do not facilitate the offense. Defensively they are upgrades but after making that change, we&#8217;d now be looking for another offensive player to balance on Kobe.</p>
<p>My eyes are on Farmar and Mihm. Those two players, when coming off the bench playing 20-25 mins, we are quite solid on those positions. I suggest that we move Mo Evans to the starting lineup and Walton to be the 6th man. I personally like Luke&#8217;s game but I see him more as a trade bait this summer. If no improvements are made, we can still keep him. </p>
<p>Again I don&#8217;t see how no one seems to like the Andre Miller idea. The possibility of a deal done with is quite distant yet, but defensively and offensively, Andre&#8217;s the guy for us. Then Camby can be swapped for Kwame. I dont think anyone would argue on this. I&#8217;d only assume Bynum is required then Reggie Evans or Najera is added. I&#8217;d still like it. </p>
<p>I made a run at the lottery machine today and saw the possibility that Philly could land Acie Law on the 14th. That should make them consider that dealing Andre might be an option to clear off the payroll. Get Luke and Cook and another draft pick, possibly Tiago Splitter or Javaris Crittenton.</p>
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		<title>By: chopperdave</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-98170</link>
		<dc:creator>chopperdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 06:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-98170</guid>
		<description>70) I don&#039;t think those guys (Kwame, Lamar, Mihm) fit the kind of redemption story I have in mind.  They&#039;re more of the &quot;Can they ever live up to the potential?&quot;  plotline.  I&#039;m interested in the players who have already proven themselves, but are currently struggling either on or off the court (a la Bonzi, Ron, Kirilenko, etc).  

Honestly, thinking about Kobe playing alongside a defender like Artest or Kirilenko has me kind of giddy.  How about.. Kwame+picks for Artest, and AK/Fisher for Lamar/Luke?  It&#039;d kill me to lose those two, maybe we can trick em into taking Vlad instead of Luke.  Regardless, just imagine the five of: Jordan/Kobe/Artest/AK/Bynum.   That team would be damn near impossible to score on.  And with Fisher/Evans/Ronny/Mihm and whoever we can get for the MLE (Bonzi?) we&#039;d have a solid bench.  There&#039;d still be some defensive weaknesses at the point and at C, but I guess I&#039;m banking on Farmer and Bynum stepping up big in that area next year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>70) I don&#8217;t think those guys (Kwame, Lamar, Mihm) fit the kind of redemption story I have in mind.  They&#8217;re more of the &#8220;Can they ever live up to the potential?&#8221;  plotline.  I&#8217;m interested in the players who have already proven themselves, but are currently struggling either on or off the court (a la Bonzi, Ron, Kirilenko, etc).  </p>
<p>Honestly, thinking about Kobe playing alongside a defender like Artest or Kirilenko has me kind of giddy.  How about.. Kwame+picks for Artest, and AK/Fisher for Lamar/Luke?  It&#8217;d kill me to lose those two, maybe we can trick em into taking Vlad instead of Luke.  Regardless, just imagine the five of: Jordan/Kobe/Artest/AK/Bynum.   That team would be damn near impossible to score on.  And with Fisher/Evans/Ronny/Mihm and whoever we can get for the MLE (Bonzi?) we&#8217;d have a solid bench.  There&#8217;d still be some defensive weaknesses at the point and at C, but I guess I&#8217;m banking on Farmer and Bynum stepping up big in that area next year.</p>
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		<title>By: kwame a.</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-97789</link>
		<dc:creator>kwame a.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 15:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-97789</guid>
		<description>Craig- I agree with you about  Shammond and Farmar, but we should only have one of those guys because Sasha is still gonna be here, and we need a legit starter.

The MLE should be spent on the best avaiable talent. We are like a football team that needs to pick up the best player avaiable. We have so many holes thta no matter what talent we add, it will be filling a need. 

MLE targets

James Posey
Andres Nocioni
Charlie Bell
Steve Blake

These guys can all do what we will need the supporting players around kobe to do: defend the perimeter and hit the 3. The other need, offensive and defensive presence will have to be added through a trade and the draft pick should be used to supplement our attempts at obtaining said big-man, if  not find a player that can spell Kobe or play with him (Nick Young, Crittenton, Brandon Rush).

Veteran&#039;s Minimum should be aimed at

Mikki Moore
Janerro Pargo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig- I agree with you about  Shammond and Farmar, but we should only have one of those guys because Sasha is still gonna be here, and we need a legit starter.</p>
<p>The MLE should be spent on the best avaiable talent. We are like a football team that needs to pick up the best player avaiable. We have so many holes thta no matter what talent we add, it will be filling a need. </p>
<p>MLE targets</p>
<p>James Posey<br />
Andres Nocioni<br />
Charlie Bell<br />
Steve Blake</p>
<p>These guys can all do what we will need the supporting players around kobe to do: defend the perimeter and hit the 3. The other need, offensive and defensive presence will have to be added through a trade and the draft pick should be used to supplement our attempts at obtaining said big-man, if  not find a player that can spell Kobe or play with him (Nick Young, Crittenton, Brandon Rush).</p>
<p>Veteran&#8217;s Minimum should be aimed at</p>
<p>Mikki Moore<br />
Janerro Pargo</p>
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		<title>By: Muffin-Man</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-97767</link>
		<dc:creator>Muffin-Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 14:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-97767</guid>
		<description>Redemption is not a verb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Redemption is not a verb.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig W.</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-97765</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 14:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-97765</guid>
		<description>Once more, with feeling...
It is amazing how fast we 1) forget that what we need is more defense, not more offense when discussing trades and 2) forget that most of our &#039;redemption&#039; projects this year were badly injured and will possibly require surgery - reducing/eliminating their trade value until next year. 

Let&#039;s pick one thing (I want a defensive point guard) and go after that and give the rest of the trade talk a rest. 

One other request: Phil... please give both Shammond and Farmar a complete chance next year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once more, with feeling&#8230;<br />
It is amazing how fast we 1) forget that what we need is more defense, not more offense when discussing trades and 2) forget that most of our &#8216;redemption&#8217; projects this year were badly injured and will possibly require surgery &#8211; reducing/eliminating their trade value until next year. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s pick one thing (I want a defensive point guard) and go after that and give the rest of the trade talk a rest. </p>
<p>One other request: Phil&#8230; please give both Shammond and Farmar a complete chance next year.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-97745</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 14:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/05/06/winning-now-part-i/#comment-97745</guid>
		<description>Redemption stories are my favorite--and redemption stories may be the only stories that the Lakers can listen to right now.  But many great redemption stories are already here.  

Lamar was already redemptioned in college, getting his best chance at the University of Rhode Island with a redemption seeking coach exiled from UCLA.  He was redemptioned to Miami from the Clippers after concerns surfaced about his character.  He was redemptioned to the Lakers from Miami with an opportunity to prove himself as a true all star.   The saga continues.

Kwame didn&#039;t make it as far as college.  He was redemptioned after many frustrating years to the Lakers one step away from oblivion.  He&#039;s done better here--found out that he belonged at center.  But many Laker fans seem even quicker to judge him than the Wizards--who may not ever have noticed his defensive potential. 

Chris Mihm was redemptioned here from Boston.  If he had been healthy, he might well have been the starting center this year.  If he is healthy and the Lakers don&#039;t sign him, he will be redemptioned somewhere else.   If the Lakers do sign him, he may reward our investment handsomely.

VladRad already redeemed himself from Seattle as a Clipper last year.  After this year, he may need to repeat that performance.  Being healthy can make quite a difference--especially when one is a 3 point shooter with an injured shooting hand.

All of these guys were injured and will be in various states of recovery for many months.  Opportunities for redemption next year may be the only practical business choice the Lakers have.

Shammond, with a strong heritage, but cast aside by the NBA, got a near miraculous opportunity to get back, but little chance for redemption until the end of the season.  He convinced me.  I&#039;d like to see him back. 

The Smusher clearly had the longest lasting redemption opportunity of any Laker in recent history.   He needs another one.

Numerous redemption opportunities out there might be the only way for the Lakers to get the missing pieces.  The only question might be redemption of the guys we already have--or redemption opportunities for Jermaine or Ron or Bonzi or Dirk or ???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Redemption stories are my favorite&#8211;and redemption stories may be the only stories that the Lakers can listen to right now.  But many great redemption stories are already here.  </p>
<p>Lamar was already redemptioned in college, getting his best chance at the University of Rhode Island with a redemption seeking coach exiled from UCLA.  He was redemptioned to Miami from the Clippers after concerns surfaced about his character.  He was redemptioned to the Lakers from Miami with an opportunity to prove himself as a true all star.   The saga continues.</p>
<p>Kwame didn&#8217;t make it as far as college.  He was redemptioned after many frustrating years to the Lakers one step away from oblivion.  He&#8217;s done better here&#8211;found out that he belonged at center.  But many Laker fans seem even quicker to judge him than the Wizards&#8211;who may not ever have noticed his defensive potential. </p>
<p>Chris Mihm was redemptioned here from Boston.  If he had been healthy, he might well have been the starting center this year.  If he is healthy and the Lakers don&#8217;t sign him, he will be redemptioned somewhere else.   If the Lakers do sign him, he may reward our investment handsomely.</p>
<p>VladRad already redeemed himself from Seattle as a Clipper last year.  After this year, he may need to repeat that performance.  Being healthy can make quite a difference&#8211;especially when one is a 3 point shooter with an injured shooting hand.</p>
<p>All of these guys were injured and will be in various states of recovery for many months.  Opportunities for redemption next year may be the only practical business choice the Lakers have.</p>
<p>Shammond, with a strong heritage, but cast aside by the NBA, got a near miraculous opportunity to get back, but little chance for redemption until the end of the season.  He convinced me.  I&#8217;d like to see him back. </p>
<p>The Smusher clearly had the longest lasting redemption opportunity of any Laker in recent history.   He needs another one.</p>
<p>Numerous redemption opportunities out there might be the only way for the Lakers to get the missing pieces.  The only question might be redemption of the guys we already have&#8211;or redemption opportunities for Jermaine or Ron or Bonzi or Dirk or ???</p>
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