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	<title>Comments on: Fast Break Thoughts and Links</title>
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	<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/</link>
	<description>A Lakers Blog. Thoughts, reflections, and the odd rant on the Los Angeles Lakers and the NBA (even the Clippers).</description>
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		<title>By: John R.</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-122171</link>
		<dc:creator>John R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-122171</guid>
		<description>JONES @ 67:

No question its a very interesting offer.  It doesn&#039;t leave them that much to build around, but they would be far under the cap soon.  My concern as Larry Bird would be, who knows what that can pull into the cornfield.

My main point is that any team the Lakers approach could (and should at least for negotiating purposes) take the stance of: screw YOU, YOU rebuild.  As much as your trade makes sense for the Pacers for the basketball product, how does the trade with the Clippers for Maggette and cap space in &#039;08 not make the same sense for the Lakers&#039; basketball product:

Cassell/Maggette/Williams and 2 first rounders for Kobe Bean.

That leaves the Lakers where your trade would put the Pacers.  But instead of Murphy, Dunleavy, Diogu and Bynum and some haggard strip clubs known for altercations involving NBA players to draw to, the Lakers would be building around Maggette, Odom, Bynum and the natural charisma of being the Los Angeles Lakers.  That team is a free agent C or PG away which the Lakers would have money for in just one year.

My kingdom for a phone tap at Staples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JONES @ 67:</p>
<p>No question its a very interesting offer.  It doesn&#8217;t leave them that much to build around, but they would be far under the cap soon.  My concern as Larry Bird would be, who knows what that can pull into the cornfield.</p>
<p>My main point is that any team the Lakers approach could (and should at least for negotiating purposes) take the stance of: screw YOU, YOU rebuild.  As much as your trade makes sense for the Pacers for the basketball product, how does the trade with the Clippers for Maggette and cap space in &#8216;08 not make the same sense for the Lakers&#8217; basketball product:</p>
<p>Cassell/Maggette/Williams and 2 first rounders for Kobe Bean.</p>
<p>That leaves the Lakers where your trade would put the Pacers.  But instead of Murphy, Dunleavy, Diogu and Bynum and some haggard strip clubs known for altercations involving NBA players to draw to, the Lakers would be building around Maggette, Odom, Bynum and the natural charisma of being the Los Angeles Lakers.  That team is a free agent C or PG away which the Lakers would have money for in just one year.</p>
<p>My kingdom for a phone tap at Staples.</p>
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		<title>By: chopperdave</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-122103</link>
		<dc:creator>chopperdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-122103</guid>
		<description>Like I said before, &quot;if we could pry JO away while keeping Lamar in any situation Iâ€™d be pretty happy.&quot;  And it&#039;s a good point about the lack of quality big men.  It&#039;s not so much that I don&#039;t think JO can handle playing C as what happens when he goes to the bench.  Lamar is already playing over-sized I think, Ronny really belongs at PF, our other backups (Cook, Vlad) act like there are sharks in the paint.  And if we&#039;re using MLE on a PG and have sent all our trade chips save Lamar to Indiana already, I&#039;m not sure where the help comes from.   There are bodies to be found, but they&#039;re usually ridiculously overpaid in this league.

I guess what I&#039;m saying is I would definitely pull the trigger on your deal in an instant if it means keeping Lamar, but I&#039;d worry big time about about the depth of our already fragile frontcourt .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I said before, &#8220;if we could pry JO away while keeping Lamar in any situation Iâ€™d be pretty happy.&#8221;  And it&#8217;s a good point about the lack of quality big men.  It&#8217;s not so much that I don&#8217;t think JO can handle playing C as what happens when he goes to the bench.  Lamar is already playing over-sized I think, Ronny really belongs at PF, our other backups (Cook, Vlad) act like there are sharks in the paint.  And if we&#8217;re using MLE on a PG and have sent all our trade chips save Lamar to Indiana already, I&#8217;m not sure where the help comes from.   There are bodies to be found, but they&#8217;re usually ridiculously overpaid in this league.</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m saying is I would definitely pull the trigger on your deal in an instant if it means keeping Lamar, but I&#8217;d worry big time about about the depth of our already fragile frontcourt .</p>
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		<title>By: JONESONTHENBA</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-122083</link>
		<dc:creator>JONESONTHENBA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-122083</guid>
		<description>*back up...not back off...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*back up&#8230;not back off&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JONESONTHENBA</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-122055</link>
		<dc:creator>JONESONTHENBA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-122055</guid>
		<description>Chopperdave: Have you seen who starts in the middle for NBA teams these days? Other than Yao, Shaq (when he&#039;s healthy) and now possibly Greg Oden, starting J.O in the middle is not going to be a problem. Especially if he is still playing next to Lamar, who has proven to be a very good rebounder from that position over the last few years. They definitely would need to find a solid back up, but they can do that via another trade or an FA signing. But don&#039;t tell me you think the Lakers are better served wtih the three headed monster of Kwame, Bynum, and Mihm. Kwame will be coming off of ankle surgery and has proven he isn&#039;t very good at anything besides throwing cake. There is a chance that Bynum will eventually be good, but right now it&#039;s tough for him to stay on the floor (because of conditioning and foul trouble) for more than 20 mpg. And who knows what Mihm is going to be after missing the last 1.3 seasons. JO is a 6&#039;11&quot; power player that can score from the interior and the mid-range, rebound, defend one on one in the low post, and show and recover on the pick and roll. If you can get him for the package I&#039;ve outlined, you don&#039;t pass him up for fear of not having a back off. Big stiffs come a dime a dozen in the NBA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chopperdave: Have you seen who starts in the middle for NBA teams these days? Other than Yao, Shaq (when he&#8217;s healthy) and now possibly Greg Oden, starting J.O in the middle is not going to be a problem. Especially if he is still playing next to Lamar, who has proven to be a very good rebounder from that position over the last few years. They definitely would need to find a solid back up, but they can do that via another trade or an FA signing. But don&#8217;t tell me you think the Lakers are better served wtih the three headed monster of Kwame, Bynum, and Mihm. Kwame will be coming off of ankle surgery and has proven he isn&#8217;t very good at anything besides throwing cake. There is a chance that Bynum will eventually be good, but right now it&#8217;s tough for him to stay on the floor (because of conditioning and foul trouble) for more than 20 mpg. And who knows what Mihm is going to be after missing the last 1.3 seasons. JO is a 6&#8242;11&#8243; power player that can score from the interior and the mid-range, rebound, defend one on one in the low post, and show and recover on the pick and roll. If you can get him for the package I&#8217;ve outlined, you don&#8217;t pass him up for fear of not having a back off. Big stiffs come a dime a dozen in the NBA.</p>
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		<title>By: JONESONTHENBA</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-122048</link>
		<dc:creator>JONESONTHENBA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-122048</guid>
		<description>I have to admit John R., that actually made me laugh a bit. But you have to agree, if Indiana is looking to rebuild, the package I put together works perfectly. Odom makes a ton of dough and doesn&#039;t really help them become any better than they are currently with JO. If I&#039;m them, I&#039;m taking the picks and the cap space. 

Indiana should look to get rid of all of their overpaid vets for cap space and picks. They can send Tinsley to Miami for Jason Williams straight up. They can send troy murphy to Houston for Juwan Howard and filler. They can TRY to dump Dunleavy off on his pops for Maggette or anything at this point, but I highly doubt the clippers fall for that. But if they got rid of those three guys, they&#039;d be in good the financial position by 2009 where otherwise they&#039;d be over the cap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to admit John R., that actually made me laugh a bit. But you have to agree, if Indiana is looking to rebuild, the package I put together works perfectly. Odom makes a ton of dough and doesn&#8217;t really help them become any better than they are currently with JO. If I&#8217;m them, I&#8217;m taking the picks and the cap space. </p>
<p>Indiana should look to get rid of all of their overpaid vets for cap space and picks. They can send Tinsley to Miami for Jason Williams straight up. They can send troy murphy to Houston for Juwan Howard and filler. They can TRY to dump Dunleavy off on his pops for Maggette or anything at this point, but I highly doubt the clippers fall for that. But if they got rid of those three guys, they&#8217;d be in good the financial position by 2009 where otherwise they&#8217;d be over the cap.</p>
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		<title>By: Xavier</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-122037</link>
		<dc:creator>Xavier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-122037</guid>
		<description>60. It&#039;s not clear if Rudy Fernandez is staying in the draft (hasn&#039;t hired an agent yet) but yes, I definitlely think the lakers should go with him.

Rudy and Ricky (the 16 years old phenomenon I&#039;ve spoke to you in some ocasion) are arguably the best defensive tandem in Europe averaging Fernandez 2.20 and Ricky Rubio 2.30 steals per game in ACB league far from the 3rd best at steals who&#039;s Fred House from TAU at 1.97
Do that when you are defending the other team&#039;s best perimeter player and you got a reliable defender.

Add to the stats sheet 16.3 pts per game 3rd max scorer (top scorer was ALL-ACB TEAM JC Navarro at 17.3) 3.8 rebs, 3 ass and a floor leader attitude and you got what the lakers need 

the only question mark I&#039;d put on him is his strenth. although strong, he&#039;s skinny and needs to bulk up

If jackson doesnt rely much on rudy as he usually does with the rookies he won&#039;t suffer from lack of muscle (I repeat, not skinny but Nate Robinson would kick his ass in a punch fight) and will have a similar progression Bynum had from season one to season two phisically but much more ready to contribute.

he&#039;s been a pro for 5 years from now (he&#039;s 22) and comes to the NBA with experience and ready to contribute</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>60. It&#8217;s not clear if Rudy Fernandez is staying in the draft (hasn&#8217;t hired an agent yet) but yes, I definitlely think the lakers should go with him.</p>
<p>Rudy and Ricky (the 16 years old phenomenon I&#8217;ve spoke to you in some ocasion) are arguably the best defensive tandem in Europe averaging Fernandez 2.20 and Ricky Rubio 2.30 steals per game in ACB league far from the 3rd best at steals who&#8217;s Fred House from TAU at 1.97<br />
Do that when you are defending the other team&#8217;s best perimeter player and you got a reliable defender.</p>
<p>Add to the stats sheet 16.3 pts per game 3rd max scorer (top scorer was ALL-ACB TEAM JC Navarro at 17.3) 3.8 rebs, 3 ass and a floor leader attitude and you got what the lakers need </p>
<p>the only question mark I&#8217;d put on him is his strenth. although strong, he&#8217;s skinny and needs to bulk up</p>
<p>If jackson doesnt rely much on rudy as he usually does with the rookies he won&#8217;t suffer from lack of muscle (I repeat, not skinny but Nate Robinson would kick his ass in a punch fight) and will have a similar progression Bynum had from season one to season two phisically but much more ready to contribute.</p>
<p>he&#8217;s been a pro for 5 years from now (he&#8217;s 22) and comes to the NBA with experience and ready to contribute</p>
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		<title>By: John R.</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-122014</link>
		<dc:creator>John R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-122014</guid>
		<description>Seems like a good time for a blast from the past...

â€œI ainâ€™t no GM,â€ Atkins said. â€œAsk Kobe. Heâ€™s the GM. Itâ€™s his team. Go ask him.â€ Atkins, who has grown increasingly frustrated in recent weeks, was asked to clarify if he was, in fact, saying that Bryant was calling the shots for the organization. â€œI donâ€™t know,â€ Atkins said. â€œLast I heard they told me that (general manager) Mitch Kupchak was supposed to make the decisions around here. So you all going to ask him those questions, please.â€

JONES: The problem is, how can the Lakers play hard ball now?

&quot;So, uh, Larry, we are interested in Jermaine, what do you want for him?&quot;
&quot;Hmm, well Mitch, I don&#039;t know that we are interested in trading him anymore.  We brought in a new coach.  We feel like a new start.  Hey, what do you want for Kobe?&quot;
&quot;What?&quot;
&quot;What will it take to make Kobe a Pacer?&quot;
&quot;We aren&#039;t really going to trade him.&quot;
&quot;Ok, it was nice talking to you then, good luck with that..&quot;
&quot;Wait, seriously Larry, we want Jermaine.&quot;
&quot;Yeah, that&#039;s what I hear.  Why would we want to send you our best player?  You send US Kobe.&quot;
&quot;That&#039;s simply not an option.&quot;
&quot;I see.  Hmm, ok, well we would possibly consider a bid that is built around Bynum.&quot;
&quot;GREAT!  Now we are getting somewhere...Ok, so Bynum and Kwame and...&quot;
&quot;Whoa, whoa, hold your horses.  You forgot Lamar.&quot;
&quot;Lamar?  We are giving you Drew and you know he is going to...&quot;
&quot;Keep your projections.  He is two years in.  Compare to where Dwight Howard was two years in.  Or where Jermaine was.  He can&#039;t even clearly beat Kwame for the starting spot.  He has pretty much moved from prospect to, well, Kwame Brown territory.&quot;
&quot;Look I can&#039;t argue with that, but including Odom means it won&#039;t really help.&quot;
&quot;Sucks to be you Mitch, its not Jermaine running around acting like he&#039;s got bipolar disorder.  Give me a call back when you get serious.&quot;
*Click*

&quot;Hello, Isiah?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems like a good time for a blast from the past&#8230;</p>
<p>â€œI ainâ€™t no GM,â€ Atkins said. â€œAsk Kobe. Heâ€™s the GM. Itâ€™s his team. Go ask him.â€ Atkins, who has grown increasingly frustrated in recent weeks, was asked to clarify if he was, in fact, saying that Bryant was calling the shots for the organization. â€œI donâ€™t know,â€ Atkins said. â€œLast I heard they told me that (general manager) Mitch Kupchak was supposed to make the decisions around here. So you all going to ask him those questions, please.â€</p>
<p>JONES: The problem is, how can the Lakers play hard ball now?</p>
<p>&#8220;So, uh, Larry, we are interested in Jermaine, what do you want for him?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Hmm, well Mitch, I don&#8217;t know that we are interested in trading him anymore.  We brought in a new coach.  We feel like a new start.  Hey, what do you want for Kobe?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;What?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;What will it take to make Kobe a Pacer?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;We aren&#8217;t really going to trade him.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Ok, it was nice talking to you then, good luck with that..&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Wait, seriously Larry, we want Jermaine.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Yeah, that&#8217;s what I hear.  Why would we want to send you our best player?  You send US Kobe.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;That&#8217;s simply not an option.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;I see.  Hmm, ok, well we would possibly consider a bid that is built around Bynum.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;GREAT!  Now we are getting somewhere&#8230;Ok, so Bynum and Kwame and&#8230;&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Whoa, whoa, hold your horses.  You forgot Lamar.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Lamar?  We are giving you Drew and you know he is going to&#8230;&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Keep your projections.  He is two years in.  Compare to where Dwight Howard was two years in.  Or where Jermaine was.  He can&#8217;t even clearly beat Kwame for the starting spot.  He has pretty much moved from prospect to, well, Kwame Brown territory.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Look I can&#8217;t argue with that, but including Odom means it won&#8217;t really help.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Sucks to be you Mitch, its not Jermaine running around acting like he&#8217;s got bipolar disorder.  Give me a call back when you get serious.&#8221;<br />
*Click*</p>
<p>&#8220;Hello, Isiah?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: DR</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-122007</link>
		<dc:creator>DR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-122007</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got this weird feeling that Michael Jordan wants to lure Kobe to Charlotte.  Of any team that could make this happen, the Bobcats are the one&#039;s.  They are WAY under the cap ($27 mil) and could offer something very attractive in a sign and trade situation involving Gerald Wallace.

I would HATE for this to happen.  But this is how it would shake out:

Lakers give: Kobe Bryant, Jordan Farmar, #19 pick

Charlotte gives: Gerald Wallace, Ray Felton, Sean May, #8 pick

The salaries don&#039;t match, but Charlotte is in a position to eat salary since they are under the cap.  This is definitely a possibility.  

Charlotte lineup:

PG: Farmar/Knight
SG: Kobe
SF: Morrison
PF: Okafor
C: Brezec

Lakers lineup:

PG: Felton
SG: Wallace
SF: Odom
PF: May
C: Bynum</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got this weird feeling that Michael Jordan wants to lure Kobe to Charlotte.  Of any team that could make this happen, the Bobcats are the one&#8217;s.  They are WAY under the cap ($27 mil) and could offer something very attractive in a sign and trade situation involving Gerald Wallace.</p>
<p>I would HATE for this to happen.  But this is how it would shake out:</p>
<p>Lakers give: Kobe Bryant, Jordan Farmar, #19 pick</p>
<p>Charlotte gives: Gerald Wallace, Ray Felton, Sean May, #8 pick</p>
<p>The salaries don&#8217;t match, but Charlotte is in a position to eat salary since they are under the cap.  This is definitely a possibility.  </p>
<p>Charlotte lineup:</p>
<p>PG: Farmar/Knight<br />
SG: Kobe<br />
SF: Morrison<br />
PF: Okafor<br />
C: Brezec</p>
<p>Lakers lineup:</p>
<p>PG: Felton<br />
SG: Wallace<br />
SF: Odom<br />
PF: May<br />
C: Bynum</p>
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		<title>By: Renato Afonso</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-122000</link>
		<dc:creator>Renato Afonso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-122000</guid>
		<description>That lineup, if healthy, is not for #7 and early exit. We were #3 and #4 before the injuries hit us.

Get a PG and get Battier and team defense improves enough for us to be in the midst of the race again. We all know it, and even Kobe knows it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That lineup, if healthy, is not for #7 and early exit. We were #3 and #4 before the injuries hit us.</p>
<p>Get a PG and get Battier and team defense improves enough for us to be in the midst of the race again. We all know it, and even Kobe knows it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: chopperdave</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/comment-page-2/#comment-121981</link>
		<dc:creator>chopperdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/01/fast-break-thoughts-and-links/#comment-121981</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s no question in my mind that Lebron has the better cast.  Larry Hughes vs Smush is a joke.  Pavlovic vs Luke is becoming close to a draw if Sasha keeps improving.  Lamar vs Gooden is the only match up clearly in our favor, but depending on the night, if Drew&#039;s head is in the game and Lamar&#039;s isn&#039;t, it could go either way.  Z vs Kwame is undoubtedly in their favor.  After that, I&#039;d take Varejao over Ronny, Marshall over Cook/Vlad, and Snow over Sasha.  Mo probably edges Damon Jones, and Farmar vs Gibson is probably too early to tell.  

Jones is right though that the key is even if their role players aren&#039;t putting up points, they&#039;re coming up with stops, something the guys around Kobe can&#039;t seem to do. You put Kobe on any roster in the East and he carries them to the conference finals I say.

And regarding the JO trade, I still agree with Paul that giving up our 3 centers, counting on JO and Ronny to split time playing slightly out of position is risky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s no question in my mind that Lebron has the better cast.  Larry Hughes vs Smush is a joke.  Pavlovic vs Luke is becoming close to a draw if Sasha keeps improving.  Lamar vs Gooden is the only match up clearly in our favor, but depending on the night, if Drew&#8217;s head is in the game and Lamar&#8217;s isn&#8217;t, it could go either way.  Z vs Kwame is undoubtedly in their favor.  After that, I&#8217;d take Varejao over Ronny, Marshall over Cook/Vlad, and Snow over Sasha.  Mo probably edges Damon Jones, and Farmar vs Gibson is probably too early to tell.  </p>
<p>Jones is right though that the key is even if their role players aren&#8217;t putting up points, they&#8217;re coming up with stops, something the guys around Kobe can&#8217;t seem to do. You put Kobe on any roster in the East and he carries them to the conference finals I say.</p>
<p>And regarding the JO trade, I still agree with Paul that giving up our 3 centers, counting on JO and Ronny to split time playing slightly out of position is risky.</p>
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