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	<title>Comments on: Trade Rumor Primer</title>
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	<description>A Lakers Blog. Thoughts, reflections, and the odd rant on the Los Angeles Lakers and the NBA (even the Clippers).</description>
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		<title>By: bryan</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-598603</link>
		<dc:creator>bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-598603</guid>
		<description>well said, finally a good report on this stuff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well said, finally a good report on this stuff</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-132140</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 04:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-132140</guid>
		<description>Dudes!!! Lakers should go after Krilenko.  That guy does just not fit on the Jazz anymore....He does not get enought minutes to play up to his potential...The Lakers could steal him.  Think of the D with Krilenko and Kobe!!!   Come on management.....do something....soon!!!!!!! KRILENKO!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dudes!!! Lakers should go after Krilenko.  That guy does just not fit on the Jazz anymore&#8230;.He does not get enought minutes to play up to his potential&#8230;The Lakers could steal him.  Think of the D with Krilenko and Kobe!!!   Come on management&#8230;..do something&#8230;.soon!!!!!!! KRILENKO!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Foxy</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-126846</link>
		<dc:creator>Foxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-126846</guid>
		<description>Face it... it&#039;s purple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Face it&#8230; it&#8217;s purple.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-126029</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 07:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-126029</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to be a complete heretic and say the Lakers should not let Kobe and/or the &quot;fans&quot; panic them into making a trade for a Superstar.  There is not a player in the league-except maybe Duncan-that can team w/Kobe and what&#039;s left after the trade and vault the Lakers past Phoenix,Dallas and San Antonio. Why gut the team to max out in a second rd exit when staying the course could result in another run?
 
Heresy 2. Mitch is doing a much better job than most credit him w/. Coming off the Shaq trade LA had a SG,a SF and a tweener SF/PF and not much else. He has drafted a potential starting PG and C,and thinking Lamar would be a SF took a chance on a talented-but potentially flawed PF-who didn&#039;t have a killer 4/5/6/yrs left on his contract.(Note how Kobe&#039;s choice for GM was willing to trade for a similarly talented but flawed PF he&#039;d earlier let walk.)If Walton re-signs,there is the nucleus of a strong bench w/the steadying hand of Walton,an energy PF,and a long-range sniper.
Assuming Odom is the PF,the only starter needed long-term is a SF in the Bowen/Prince/Howard/Patterson/Artest mold-a strong defender who rebounds and can hit the open 3. 

I suggest instead of forfeiting a possible glowing future for meaningless instant gratification,use this yr to groom Bynum and Farmar and try to get this yr or next the SF. Use the MLE on Stevenson-or as little as possible on Patterson,or try and pry Ross from Clips(who by the way was undrafted-this is where the scouting dept has to come up big in identifying a player who can be the stopper.) Use whatever combo of Sasha,Evans,Cook it takes to get a vet PG in to mentor Farmar. Sign Darryl Armstrong to the vet min for his lockerroom leadership and his willingness to call out his team&#039;s stars-in private.) Bynum doesn&#039;t have to start,but he does have to get 25-30 min every night,and Farmar should be getting 15-20. By the trading deadline the Lakers should know if Bynum can be a stud C,if Farmar has shown he can run the team. If not,then panic and try and rebuid on the fly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to be a complete heretic and say the Lakers should not let Kobe and/or the &#8220;fans&#8221; panic them into making a trade for a Superstar.  There is not a player in the league-except maybe Duncan-that can team w/Kobe and what&#8217;s left after the trade and vault the Lakers past Phoenix,Dallas and San Antonio. Why gut the team to max out in a second rd exit when staying the course could result in another run?</p>
<p>Heresy 2. Mitch is doing a much better job than most credit him w/. Coming off the Shaq trade LA had a SG,a SF and a tweener SF/PF and not much else. He has drafted a potential starting PG and C,and thinking Lamar would be a SF took a chance on a talented-but potentially flawed PF-who didn&#8217;t have a killer 4/5/6/yrs left on his contract.(Note how Kobe&#8217;s choice for GM was willing to trade for a similarly talented but flawed PF he&#8217;d earlier let walk.)If Walton re-signs,there is the nucleus of a strong bench w/the steadying hand of Walton,an energy PF,and a long-range sniper.<br />
Assuming Odom is the PF,the only starter needed long-term is a SF in the Bowen/Prince/Howard/Patterson/Artest mold-a strong defender who rebounds and can hit the open 3. </p>
<p>I suggest instead of forfeiting a possible glowing future for meaningless instant gratification,use this yr to groom Bynum and Farmar and try to get this yr or next the SF. Use the MLE on Stevenson-or as little as possible on Patterson,or try and pry Ross from Clips(who by the way was undrafted-this is where the scouting dept has to come up big in identifying a player who can be the stopper.) Use whatever combo of Sasha,Evans,Cook it takes to get a vet PG in to mentor Farmar. Sign Darryl Armstrong to the vet min for his lockerroom leadership and his willingness to call out his team&#8217;s stars-in private.) Bynum doesn&#8217;t have to start,but he does have to get 25-30 min every night,and Farmar should be getting 15-20. By the trading deadline the Lakers should know if Bynum can be a stud C,if Farmar has shown he can run the team. If not,then panic and try and rebuid on the fly.</p>
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		<title>By: adam kiley</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-125870</link>
		<dc:creator>adam kiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 03:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-125870</guid>
		<description>Another argument could be that kobe is much more unguardble playing off the ball, despite how effective he may be with it in his hands. Though he may be doubled off the ball as well,  that will only create more opportunities for others. And not only that, but when kobe runs the offense, the ball tends to stop moving around; there&#039;s just too much dribbling, and it&#039;s clear that players just tend to stand still! However, when he is a finisher, the ball tends to move quite a bit; as we all saw at the beginning of last year, which was catalyst to their early success.

Despite the efficiency kobe possesses, in terms of stats and tangibles. In my opinion him facilitating the offense is a hinderance on the team&#039;s success, as we saw in the phoenix series this season. (kobe shot the team out of games 4, 5, and the end of game 1)

Teams that move the ball around: like the spurs, jazz, and bulls are not only more entertaining, but much more effective in the long term,  and not the short (mamba&#039;s 5 game outburst)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another argument could be that kobe is much more unguardble playing off the ball, despite how effective he may be with it in his hands. Though he may be doubled off the ball as well,  that will only create more opportunities for others. And not only that, but when kobe runs the offense, the ball tends to stop moving around; there&#8217;s just too much dribbling, and it&#8217;s clear that players just tend to stand still! However, when he is a finisher, the ball tends to move quite a bit; as we all saw at the beginning of last year, which was catalyst to their early success.</p>
<p>Despite the efficiency kobe possesses, in terms of stats and tangibles. In my opinion him facilitating the offense is a hinderance on the team&#8217;s success, as we saw in the phoenix series this season. (kobe shot the team out of games 4, 5, and the end of game 1)</p>
<p>Teams that move the ball around: like the spurs, jazz, and bulls are not only more entertaining, but much more effective in the long term,  and not the short (mamba&#8217;s 5 game outburst)!</p>
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		<title>By: JONESONTHENBA</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-125490</link>
		<dc:creator>JONESONTHENBA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-125490</guid>
		<description>Wow, I agree with everything you just said, Reed...I still would like to be able to keep Lamar because I think he and O&#039;neal together would make the Lakers great on the boards and on interior and pick and roll d. However, if the cost to get O&#039;neal and his great defensive pressence is Odom and Bynum, so be it...But not the 19th pick as well. But also, I&#039;m with Kurt on trying to play hard ball. Just don&#039;t give up Odom that easily without putting up a fight.

Maybe we can use Kwame&#039;s contract and the 19th pick to get a better shooting, better defending PG?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I agree with everything you just said, Reed&#8230;I still would like to be able to keep Lamar because I think he and O&#8217;neal together would make the Lakers great on the boards and on interior and pick and roll d. However, if the cost to get O&#8217;neal and his great defensive pressence is Odom and Bynum, so be it&#8230;But not the 19th pick as well. But also, I&#8217;m with Kurt on trying to play hard ball. Just don&#8217;t give up Odom that easily without putting up a fight.</p>
<p>Maybe we can use Kwame&#8217;s contract and the 19th pick to get a better shooting, better defending PG?</p>
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		<title>By: adam kiley</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-125420</link>
		<dc:creator>adam kiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-125420</guid>
		<description>thank you for your response, we can agree to disagree!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you for your response, we can agree to disagree!</p>
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		<title>By: reed</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-125393</link>
		<dc:creator>reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-125393</guid>
		<description>First, any suggestion that Kobe should learn to play without the ball is silly. Largely because of him, the Lakers are one of the very best offensive teams in the league. Last season they were: 5th in points, 6th in fg%, 6th in assists, 5th in threes, 8th in ft&#039;s per game, etc. Kobe&#039;s ability to score and create open shots for others is the primary reason for this. Taking the ball out of his hands and putting it more into Odom&#039;s would seriously undercut this. Kobe was 5th in the league in player efficiency rating (which primarily measures how efficient a player is at creating points per possession); if rebounds were taken out of the equation he would be top 3. Odom was 89th. While I think that misstates Odom&#039;s offensive abilities, the point is that Kobe is a vastly superior and more efficient offensive player. The team should run the offense through him on almost every possession -- so long as they do, they will be a top offensive team. 

My point was that because Odom in many ways is just a less efficient version of Kobe (on offense), it is redundant to have him. The Lakers would be far better to trade him for an interior defensive force that could generate consistent stops. It is no mistake that the two teams in the finals are both top 5 defensive teams and have strong interior defenders/rebounders (duncan/oberto/elson; varejo/gooden/ilgauskus). If the Lakers ever want to win the playoffs, they must become a dominant defensive team and that starts in the paint. Oneal would provide this. It would be much easier to find a good defensive point guard with the midlevel than a dominant interior defender -- they are too rare and expensive. 

Finally, I think the triangle offense would run better with Oneal than Odom, even though I think Odom is a little better offensive player. The triangle works best when the big men are skilled passers, scorers, and finishers. Kwame is the anti-triangle big man. Having a good post scorer would open up the weak side of the triangle for kobe and provide a better finisher for when kobe and walton create open shots (which they are so good at for laker big men). 

So, while I desperately hope they can get Oneal without giving both Odom and Bynum (a core of Kobe, Odom, and Oneal would be a dream), I don&#039;t think it is possible. And, while including both would be overpaying in overall talent, I still think it leads to a much improved team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, any suggestion that Kobe should learn to play without the ball is silly. Largely because of him, the Lakers are one of the very best offensive teams in the league. Last season they were: 5th in points, 6th in fg%, 6th in assists, 5th in threes, 8th in ft&#8217;s per game, etc. Kobe&#8217;s ability to score and create open shots for others is the primary reason for this. Taking the ball out of his hands and putting it more into Odom&#8217;s would seriously undercut this. Kobe was 5th in the league in player efficiency rating (which primarily measures how efficient a player is at creating points per possession); if rebounds were taken out of the equation he would be top 3. Odom was 89th. While I think that misstates Odom&#8217;s offensive abilities, the point is that Kobe is a vastly superior and more efficient offensive player. The team should run the offense through him on almost every possession &#8212; so long as they do, they will be a top offensive team. </p>
<p>My point was that because Odom in many ways is just a less efficient version of Kobe (on offense), it is redundant to have him. The Lakers would be far better to trade him for an interior defensive force that could generate consistent stops. It is no mistake that the two teams in the finals are both top 5 defensive teams and have strong interior defenders/rebounders (duncan/oberto/elson; varejo/gooden/ilgauskus). If the Lakers ever want to win the playoffs, they must become a dominant defensive team and that starts in the paint. Oneal would provide this. It would be much easier to find a good defensive point guard with the midlevel than a dominant interior defender &#8212; they are too rare and expensive. </p>
<p>Finally, I think the triangle offense would run better with Oneal than Odom, even though I think Odom is a little better offensive player. The triangle works best when the big men are skilled passers, scorers, and finishers. Kwame is the anti-triangle big man. Having a good post scorer would open up the weak side of the triangle for kobe and provide a better finisher for when kobe and walton create open shots (which they are so good at for laker big men). </p>
<p>So, while I desperately hope they can get Oneal without giving both Odom and Bynum (a core of Kobe, Odom, and Oneal would be a dream), I don&#8217;t think it is possible. And, while including both would be overpaying in overall talent, I still think it leads to a much improved team.</p>
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		<title>By: Anand</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-125125</link>
		<dc:creator>Anand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-125125</guid>
		<description>Thanks for answering my questions Kurt and Jones...To be sure,we do have a gaping hole at the 1 and the 5,but  don&#039;t u guys think a team-wide re-focussing on defense would have a more positive effect on team defense??  Atleast on offense you can get away with a Kobe isolation over and over again..But defense is more a function of team wide communication and an attitude of helping out one another by switching and picking up guys and generally being interested in playing D.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for answering my questions Kurt and Jones&#8230;To be sure,we do have a gaping hole at the 1 and the 5,but  don&#8217;t u guys think a team-wide re-focussing on defense would have a more positive effect on team defense??  Atleast on offense you can get away with a Kobe isolation over and over again..But defense is more a function of team wide communication and an attitude of helping out one another by switching and picking up guys and generally being interested in playing D&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: adam kiley</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/comment-page-2/#comment-125077</link>
		<dc:creator>adam kiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 05:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/06/04/trade-rumor-primer/#comment-125077</guid>
		<description>sorry for the length of this post. Just some thought i wanted to convey.

Yes, but the problem wasn&#039;t with the post-help defens, it&#039;s the perimeter that is the issue. If the lakers could improve the 1 and three spot, they&#039;d be much improved from the start. Not to mention, the mamba&#039;s porous excuse for defense these days&#039;s!

Oh, and maybe the mamba could be less dependent on his need to have the ball, and play off more, you know since he&#039;s a proficient shooter and a shooting guard. That would be an incredible sign of leadership on his part, allowing for other players to play to their strengths; like you mentioned odom, for instance.

I believe a lot more problems could be solved, by simply trading bryant. With all players the lakers would garnish in such a trade; it makes too much sense not to.

By the way, that&#039;s how you play basketball. Great job san antonio! Way to move the ball around, unlike certain superstars (kobe, lebron, and  A.I.) I can&#039;t stand ball stoppers (talk about bad for a motion based offense, don&#039;t you love seeing the mamba dribble 12 seconds off the clock)! The spurs, still rusty from their layoff, put on a clinic on how to play basketball, and we call them boring. Not me, i really enjoy watching the bulls and spurs of the nba.

the mamba could take a tip or two from Mr. Duncan!

p.s. did you just say &quot;add kobe&#039;s scoring and defense&quot; was that meant to be a joke?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry for the length of this post. Just some thought i wanted to convey.</p>
<p>Yes, but the problem wasn&#8217;t with the post-help defens, it&#8217;s the perimeter that is the issue. If the lakers could improve the 1 and three spot, they&#8217;d be much improved from the start. Not to mention, the mamba&#8217;s porous excuse for defense these days&#8217;s!</p>
<p>Oh, and maybe the mamba could be less dependent on his need to have the ball, and play off more, you know since he&#8217;s a proficient shooter and a shooting guard. That would be an incredible sign of leadership on his part, allowing for other players to play to their strengths; like you mentioned odom, for instance.</p>
<p>I believe a lot more problems could be solved, by simply trading bryant. With all players the lakers would garnish in such a trade; it makes too much sense not to.</p>
<p>By the way, that&#8217;s how you play basketball. Great job san antonio! Way to move the ball around, unlike certain superstars (kobe, lebron, and  A.I.) I can&#8217;t stand ball stoppers (talk about bad for a motion based offense, don&#8217;t you love seeing the mamba dribble 12 seconds off the clock)! The spurs, still rusty from their layoff, put on a clinic on how to play basketball, and we call them boring. Not me, i really enjoy watching the bulls and spurs of the nba.</p>
<p>the mamba could take a tip or two from Mr. Duncan!</p>
<p>p.s. did you just say &#8220;add kobe&#8217;s scoring and defense&#8221; was that meant to be a joke?</p>
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