Comments on: Summer Progress Report http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/ A Lakers Blog. Thoughts, reflections, and the odd rant on the Los Angeles Lakers and the NBA (even the Clippers). Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:18:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Chise http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-159413 Chise Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:18:09 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-159413 The problem with Bynum getting big minutes TC is that his work ethic has been spotty. I question his heart and desire quite honestly. I do so because he is so damn inconsistent. I'm really starting to wonder if he has the mental make-up to make the jump the star in this league. That said, this is a big year. If he cannot get to a place that puts him on a better path this year, his trade value goes way down. That's why I'd do as Kobe says and ship him out. Not for JKidd, but definitely for JO or KG. I would never give up him and Odom though, not for anyone, as that is preposterous. This is what needs to happen for reasons other than to placate Kobe: Mitch needs to reach between his legs and check if his set is still there. Seriously, this guy refuses to take any risks. The only moves he makes, he's either forced to (Shaq) or makes the wrong move (Kwame for Butler, Radmanovic). I mean, he wouldn't give up Butler for Boozer but he jumped at the chance to unload Butler and Chucky's expiring for Kwame? I like Kwame as much as the next guy, but that was horrible logic. And Baron Davis woulda been a nice trade...and cheap too, talent-wise at least. As I said in the Mihm signing post, I still think the JO deal will be made. The Pacers announced they were suspending trade talks during the draft because they wanted to revisit the Laker talks during free agency. Me thinks that was a ploy to get the Lakers to anti-up their offer or someone else to wow them. It didn't work. The Lakers deal, Kwame, Bynum, a draft pick, and another player, is the best they can get. And quite frankly, that'd give them a nice young core in Granger, Bynum, and Diogu. Why they aren't jumping at this I have no idea. The problem with Bynum getting big minutes TC is that his work ethic has been spotty. I question his heart and desire quite honestly. I do so because he is so damn inconsistent. I’m really starting to wonder if he has the mental make-up to make the jump the star in this league.

That said, this is a big year. If he cannot get to a place that puts him on a better path this year, his trade value goes way down. That’s why I’d do as Kobe says and ship him out. Not for JKidd, but definitely for JO or KG. I would never give up him and Odom though, not for anyone, as that is preposterous.

This is what needs to happen for reasons other than to placate Kobe: Mitch needs to reach between his legs and check if his set is still there. Seriously, this guy refuses to take any risks. The only moves he makes, he’s either forced to (Shaq) or makes the wrong move (Kwame for Butler, Radmanovic). I mean, he wouldn’t give up Butler for Boozer but he jumped at the chance to unload Butler and Chucky’s expiring for Kwame? I like Kwame as much as the next guy, but that was horrible logic. And Baron Davis woulda been a nice trade…and cheap too, talent-wise at least.

As I said in the Mihm signing post, I still think the JO deal will be made. The Pacers announced they were suspending trade talks during the draft because they wanted to revisit the Laker talks during free agency. Me thinks that was a ploy to get the Lakers to anti-up their offer or someone else to wow them. It didn’t work. The Lakers deal, Kwame, Bynum, a draft pick, and another player, is the best they can get. And quite frankly, that’d give them a nice young core in Granger, Bynum, and Diogu. Why they aren’t jumping at this I have no idea.

]]> By: TC http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-159362 TC Fri, 20 Jul 2007 00:50:35 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-159362 I think the Lakers are in a perfect position to make a bit of a push. I think if Andrew gets some big minutes, maybe as the first guy off the bench or something, he could have a breakthru year. If he can get off to a good start, starting, I think he could key a much better year. On the other hand, we might still be stuck in nowhere land....but if we are a bit better, we're going to take a couple wins from the second-tier Western Conference teams like the Utahs, maybe Houstons, Denvers...which would be progress. I think the Lakers are in a perfect position to make a bit of a push. I think if Andrew gets some big minutes, maybe as the first guy off the bench or something, he could have a breakthru year. If he can get off to a good start, starting, I think he could key a much better year. On the other hand, we might still be stuck in nowhere land….but if we are a bit better, we’re going to take a couple wins from the second-tier Western Conference teams like the Utahs, maybe Houstons, Denvers…which would be progress.

]]> By: Craig W. http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-158686 Craig W. Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:06:44 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-158686 That is what every team says - Clippers, Heat, Lakers. It was Pat Riley who gave him the then ridiculous contract. While he did well, he has never lived up the the all-star predictions made for him. There have always been excuses, but I have come to the conclusion that he is always going to be a #3 guy on the team. He can do everything and he is a key part, but he needs a #1 killer and a #2 scorer on any team he is on. It is for that reason only that I say he will have to accept less than he is currently making (almost #1 money). If another team will again 'shoot the moon' with him then I say do a sign and trade with them. That is what every team says – Clippers, Heat, Lakers. It was Pat Riley who gave him the then ridiculous contract. While he did well, he has never lived up the the all-star predictions made for him. There have always been excuses, but I have come to the conclusion that he is always going to be a #3 guy on the team. He can do everything and he is a key part, but he needs a #1 killer and a #2 scorer on any team he is on. It is for that reason only that I say he will have to accept less than he is currently making (almost #1 money). If another team will again ‘shoot the moon’ with him then I say do a sign and trade with them.

]]> By: Mike in the Mountain West http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-158631 Mike in the Mountain West Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:20:19 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-158631 Kwame will clearly have to take a major paycut where ever he goes, or at least he should, it's impossible to predict if some GM will offer Kwame some idiotic contract. Lamar's situation is a little more fluid. First, because his contract isn't up till 2009. Secondly because I think Lamar has the talent to justify his contract size. I think the biggest problem with Lamar is his fit on our team. I have this gut feeling that if he were on another team he could easily be an all-star. Kwame will clearly have to take a major paycut where ever he goes, or at least he should, it’s impossible to predict if some GM will offer Kwame some idiotic contract.

Lamar’s situation is a little more fluid. First, because his contract isn’t up till 2009. Secondly because I think Lamar has the talent to justify his contract size. I think the biggest problem with Lamar is his fit on our team. I have this gut feeling that if he were on another team he could easily be an all-star.

]]> By: Craig W. http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-158562 Craig W. Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:36:57 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-158562 I think if we resign either Kwame or Lamar, they will both have to take pay cuts. Otherwise, as a team, we will not be able to get/keep a long-term and effective #2 scorer. Since this is not the normal human expectation, we may loose both over the life of their contracts and we should be planning drafts/trades in this direction. We can sometimes overpay at the MLE level (see Walton) for reasons other than pure on-court talent, but where we cannot make mistakes is with players at $9M+. This is where we are now hurting. I think if we resign either Kwame or Lamar, they will both have to take pay cuts. Otherwise, as a team, we will not be able to get/keep a long-term and effective #2 scorer. Since this is not the normal human expectation, we may loose both over the life of their contracts and we should be planning drafts/trades in this direction. We can sometimes overpay at the MLE level (see Walton) for reasons other than pure on-court talent, but where we cannot make mistakes is with players at $9M+. This is where we are now hurting.

]]> By: Craig W. http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-158557 Craig W. Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:20:51 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-158557 Until Andrew fills out and becomes more solid defensively, I think we need a Kwame type for the position. This is my problem with dumping him for KG, JO, Gasol. We lose the big body down low. Successful teams (S.A.) always have a mix of youth and experience. A good part of that strategy is that they understand how to work the salary cap to their advantage. I believe Mitch is on board with this philosophy and this will benefit us over the next few years. I agree we should not trade Kwame for any fairly expensive player with several years on his contract. It defeats our salary cap requirements. Until Andrew fills out and becomes more solid defensively, I think we need a Kwame type for the position. This is my problem with dumping him for KG, JO, Gasol. We lose the big body down low.

Successful teams (S.A.) always have a mix of youth and experience. A good part of that strategy is that they understand how to work the salary cap to their advantage. I believe Mitch is on board with this philosophy and this will benefit us over the next few years. I agree we should not trade Kwame for any fairly expensive player with several years on his contract. It defeats our salary cap requirements.

]]> By: Mike in the Mountain West http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-158553 Mike in the Mountain West Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:09:16 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-158553 Your right. Which pretty much makes any large deal almost impossible. Yet another reason for not trading away our rookie scale contract players. The value they provide on a skill to paycheck ratio is immense. I'm thinking more and more that either a small trade centered around Kwame to get another player of his contract size but one provides more value is the key. Either that or keep his contract and use the cap space ourselves to sign a free-agent that fills our needs which we will know better once the season starts. A third option could be to keep Kwame and resign him for a much more reasonable contract and use whatever is left over to sign another rotation player. Your right. Which pretty much makes any large deal almost impossible.

Yet another reason for not trading away our rookie scale contract players. The value they provide on a skill to paycheck ratio is immense.

I’m thinking more and more that either a small trade centered around Kwame to get another player of his contract size but one provides more value is the key. Either that or keep his contract and use the cap space ourselves to sign a free-agent that fills our needs which we will know better once the season starts. A third option could be to keep Kwame and resign him for a much more reasonable contract and use whatever is left over to sign another rotation player.

]]> By: Craig W. http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-158539 Craig W. Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:44:06 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-158539 These three would make about $56m by themselves - over the salary cap. To add anyone else to the team would put us over the luxury cap by quite a bit. We cannot economically stay in this position. These three would make about $56m by themselves – over the salary cap. To add anyone else to the team would put us over the luxury cap by quite a bit. We cannot economically stay in this position.

]]> By: Carter http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-158535 Carter Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:36:35 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-158535 PG: Fisher SG: Bryant SF: Odom PF: Brown C: Bynum Mark it up. PG: Fisher
SG: Bryant
SF: Odom
PF: Brown
C: Bynum

Mark it up.

]]> By: Mike in the Mountain West http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/comment-page-3/#comment-158528 Mike in the Mountain West Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:22:45 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007/07/16/summer-progress-report/#comment-158528 I think we could compete for a championship for at least 3 years with a core of Kobe, O'neal, and Odom, if not 4 or 5. Remember, Kobe and O'neal are both 28 and still in their prime. Odom is 27 and if the first half of last year is any indication, just entering his prime. If we can assemble a good supporting cast around them we can extend their shelf life even more. I don't know enough to say anything meaningful about the long-term financial implications but I think you're right that any big trade puts us in a worse position. The question is how bad. I think we could compete for a championship for at least 3 years with a core of Kobe, O’neal, and Odom, if not 4 or 5. Remember, Kobe and O’neal are both 28 and still in their prime. Odom is 27 and if the first half of last year is any indication, just entering his prime. If we can assemble a good supporting cast around them we can extend their shelf life even more.

I don’t know enough to say anything meaningful about the long-term financial implications but I think you’re right that any big trade puts us in a worse position. The question is how bad.

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