Game 4 Chat

Bill Bridges —  June 12, 2008

Game 4 Chat

The pressure is off LA, slightly. One of the big reasons for the tight play of some of the Laker players was due to the sheer pressure of the game. Losing game 3 was, historically speaking, equivalent to losing game 7. If offensive efficiency is affected by players feeling comfortable and loose, then game 3 performance was exactly the opposite.

Both defenses also did a good job. The key adjustment for LA being the defensive switch putting Kobe on Rondo. Many on this board had been looking for this switch prior to game 1. We got it in game 3 and is likely to continue until Doc makes an adjustment. What could be the adjustment? Instructing Rondo to try to take Kobe off the dribble might be one – although his ankle may hinderance with this plan.

The poor offensive performance on both sides were amplified by the short turnaround after a trans-continental trip. Better rested, outside shots on both sides should fall a little easier.

I anticipate the Celtics going to KG on the low block with purpose tonight. Review of the 3rd quarter should have had light bulbs popping throughout the Celtic’s hotel. In a few short minutes KG got 3 of his 6 field goals – on a strong jump hook in the lane, turn around, and an open J from the corner.

On offense, KG and Pierce played poorly. But then again LO, Pau, and Fish also did. Game 4 might hinge on which of these players turn their offensive game around.

ddray has asked for more support and better Karma from Laker fans:

Laker bloggers seem obsessed by the dark side and pet agendas.
Many of our Laker bloggers don’t seem to understand or support the roles of many Laker players–suggesting that certain Lakers be benched or traded when these players fail to play according to some athletic fantasy that only these bloggers vaguely understand themselves.

Pau Gasol is a chamelion–a power forward playing out of position. Pau can score, pass, rebound, block shots, and defend–but not all at the same time. He rarely outshines other players on his team–even though he can. One game he might score 30–sometimes in the first half. Another game he might take down 19 rebounds–9 of them offensive. Another game he might frustrate an opposing player and hold his scoring way down. In game 3, Gasol played great defense on Garnett, and scored/rebounded in the fourth when needed. In a game against Utah, he made decisive game winning plays, such as a controversial rebound/putback that won the game.
Pau is castigated for not blocking out. It is difficult to block out a player that weighs 80 lbs. more than you-but there are other ways to get rebounds.

Lamar is Lamar. He has been an X factor all year. He does not match up well against Boston as an offensive threat, but can still play defense and rebound.

VladRad has had games like Sasha games three for the Lakers–and can make other contributions. Unlike Lamar, VladRad can hit the three–so he can spread the floor. VladRad can go to the hole, rebound, and play defense–but not like Lamar. They are complementary role players that Phil can deploy.

Luke is one of only three Lakers that has been to an NBA final before. He matches up well against Boston widebodies. Luke and Ronny Turiaf can both make the 15-20 foot shot that Boston defense allows–even if they haven’t shown that ability with any consistency yet.

 

 

 

 

These players have defied the odds and have made the finals when most pundits predicted that they would miss the playoffs entirely. They DO deserve our support.

Steve Javie is officiating, known as a visiting team’s official.

- Bill Bridges

Bill Bridges

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426 responses to Game 4 Chat

  1. I agree that a lot of the players seemed unsure of themselves (pau and Odom in particular). This (hopefully) should change, at least for Pau. I expect him to have a better game. He played well in the first half of game 2. In the 3rd quarter the Lakers stopped going to him in the post. I would expect Jackson to go to Pau early in this game to establish the post. Odom needsto focus on rebounding and playing defense. If he can get some offensive rebounds for easy points and maybe some back door cuts to the basket that will help his offensive game. The celts are playing off of him then waiting to take a charge when he drives. He needs to trust in his mid range J. If he can hit a couple of those that might open it up for him to go to the rim. But his main focus needs to be rebounding and defense. I think 10-12 (with only a few fouls and shots) would be good production from him tonight.

    KG in the post. I expect Boston to go to that early in the first quarter. KG is almost unstoppable when he plays in the post. The problem is that KG won’t play there for an entire game. He will go away from it and settle for jump shots after a few plays. He has done it for his entire career. I don’t expect it to change much in one game. That is the biggest difference between KG and Duncan. Duncan will punish you on the inside, KG likes to play on the perimeter and take 15-18 foot jumpers. Also KG has not shot well since the first half of game 1. Maybe it has something to do with the Lakers D.

  2. As to “karma:”

    The Lakers have done a great job, and I think it is important to remember, as Kurt said a few days ago, that most people saw this team as a 45-50 win team at best going in. SI, FWIW, picked them to be in the lottery, finishing 9th in the west. To make the finals without Bynum, pull off the Gasol trade, and to see the young guys develop–even if they lose the next two, this has been a GREAT year for the franchise and the fans.

    I myself have underrated them all year. I thought they would beat Denver and Utah, but I was very surprised they took out SA in 5.

    WRT Odom and Gasol: I work closely with two Celtic fans–both nice guys who don’t smacktalk, luckily–and I said the Boston interior D deserves a lot of credit
    for Odom and Gasol’s problems. The Celtics didn’t go 66-16 on the luck of the Irish. This is a big, tough, mean veteran team loaded with guys who do not have rings and in their 30s that the Lakers are playing.

    All that said, just because I don’t post “Lakers in 6 baybee” doesn’t mean I don’t support the team. I assume everybody knows I am pulling hard for the team, so when I post here, I try to be objective, and objectively, I see Boston with the edge right now.

    Go Lakers.

  3. This is stating the obvious but Lamar and Pau have to come to play tonight. Pau has to box out and be aggressive offensively in the paint. Lamar has to let the game come to him and not force his drives to the hoop, rebound, and stay out of foul trouble. If these two have poor games it’s going to be a tough haul tonight for the Lakers.

  4. what do you guys think – if you’re doc, do you play rondo on a short leash (if at all)? i can only hope that he gives tony allen meaningful minutes – kobe can roam off him and dare him to hit the outside shot.

  5. Garnett will post up, and the Celtics are going to take it to the rack, early, often, and hard. The Lakers better be prepared to play physical defense without fouling and sending Boston to the line and letting them get into the penalty early. Fouling slows down the pace and bails out bad offense.

    Is it “athletic fantasy” to expect Lamar to stay out of foul trouble (and not pick up offensive fouls trying run through a defense sagging off him) or to expect Pau to make strong, confident moves around the basket?

    Phil Jackson seems to expect the same.

  6. Hopefully the refs will be fair in this game – you know after favoring the Lakers like crazy last game.

  7. The Celtics have some decisions to make with Rondo and Pierce (to a lesser extent). They can still win the series if they lose games 4 and 5 but win 6 and 7 at home. So, can Rondo get significantly better with rest by the time of Game 6 next Tuesday? If not, then they need to get whatever they can out of him.

    It’s risky to rest them because they have a very good chance of winning one in LA. But, if they lose 4 and 5, they again have a cross-county flight early Monday am, to play in Boston on Tuesday night (and you lose time flying east). The Lakers would have a great shot in Game 6, with momentum and youth on their side.

    If Boston wins game 4, they might rest some people in game 5.

    So, expect Boston to go all out to win the next couple of games.

  8. I agree about the support issue. There isn’t a legit reason to make a trade anywhere with this team. I believe some bloggers simply get frustrated, like we all do, and tend to go into the direction of “dump this guy” or “send X player for X player” speculation, etc…in support of the team instead of the players. It’s a “can’t see the forest through the trees” line of thinking.

    We’re all fans and want to see them play like a well-oiled machine. It’s hard when they look less than stellar, because the sky is the limit with this crew. G3 was a win, and thank God for it. Boston is getting a little more banged up each game now and maybe that grind will work in LA’s favor. Here’s to hoping the gang is loose and confident tonight. An unrelenting, systematic destruction of the Celtics to even the series would be huge. A loss is obviously devastating. Get that crowd pumping tonight and go Lakers!

  9. “steve javie is officiating, known as a visiting team’s official.”

    according to covers.com’s “homer” index for officials-which has javie as being 59th of 62, the other two officials joe derosa and tom washington are ranked first and fourth, respectively.

    so if anything the home team should have the advantage, so i guess maybe you should hold off on that excuse?

  10. I want a win, but no real big blowouts, please. Look up “Alson’s Theory.” From one of the long-time posters on ASBNLL.

  11. I know it’s the topic de jour, but man, let’s not make excuses about the refs before we play the game.

    I’m ready for Kobe to go off again.

  12. #24…kobe bryant…

    hmmm…this eve:

    24 x 4 = 96

    so…his # times the fact that it’s game #4 equals 96

    therefore…the laker’s will score 96 points tonight while his highness is on the court…

    for argument’s sake…say he scores a clean 69 points

    that leaves 27 points for his court-mates…

    so probably 6 assists…

    and 9 boards…is there a cooler # than #9?…doubt it…

    wow…kobe bryant: 69-6-9 + a plethora of steals, a couple blocks and enough jaw-dropping-highlights to fill a poster-shop…

    MR. BRYANT,

    …PLEASE PULL OUT THE SIX-SHOOTERS TONIGHT…AND GIVE THIBODEAU SOME WINKS AND SMILES…I DON’T THINK HE CAN HANDLE IT…IF HE WERE THAT GOOD HE WOULD BE COACHING TEAM USA…WHEN – IN REALITY – HE’S THE ASSISTANT TO DOC RIVERS…

    …I’M SURE YOU REALLY LIKED HIM WHEN HE WAS YOUR QUASI-BASKETBALL-CAMP-COUNCILOR…BUT YOU’VE LEARNED A LOT SINCE HE TAUGHT YOU HOW TO HEDGE-A-SCREEN, SQUARE-UP IN THE BLOCK, BLAH…BLAH…BLAH…

    …HE DIDN’T TEACH YOU HOW TO DUNK ON DWIGHT HOWARD LIKE THAT…

    …YOU DID…

    …ACTUALLY…JELLY-BEAN PROBABLY HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT TOO…

    …PLEASE WATCH THAT HIGHLIGHT…YOU KNOW THE ONE…AND VINCE’S LEAP OVER FRéDéRIC WEIS…

    …FOR INSPIRATION…

    …BY THE WAY…I THINK YOU CAN JUMP HIGHER THAN VINCE…

    THANKS,

    koko.b.ware

    p.s. tonight’s gonna be fun…

  13. if you’re doc, do you play rondo on a short leash

    ***

    Rondo will play a lot if his ankle allows it. If the Celtics get down by 8 or 10, we may see a lot of House for the 3s.

  14. I actually want an official that, if anything, leans for the visiting team. No excuses for this game if the Celtics lose – no benefits if the Lakers win. Call it straight down the line. I’d rather have zero advantages given by the zebras tonight.

  15. I think javie is one of the most consistent and fair refs in the league. Consequently, the games he officiates tend to exhibit the least b**ching and moaning (also because he’s not afraid to T up anyone.) I’m looking forwards to a good game.

  16. This Little Pinky June 12, 2008 at 10:53 am

    STEVE JAVIE TONIGHT. UH-OH …

  17. Thought y’all might get a kick out of Letterman’s Top Ten last night:

    Top Ten Signs a Game Is Fixed

    10. The game begins 20 minutes before the visiting team arrives.
    9. Tip-off always goes to the player with the largest salary.
    8. The score at the end of the 1st quarter is 179-2.
    7. A 3-pointer counts for two if it’s close.
    6. One of the Laker Girls looks suspiciously like Pete Rose.
    5. Whenever he’s open, the ref takes a shot.
    4. The scoreboard has a disclaimer: all scores approximate.
    3. Team loses although it has the lead in points, delegates, and the popular vote.
    2. Jack Nicholson scores 25 points from his seat.
    1. The Knicks win.

  18. Are you sure we want Steve Javie?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqZehxA3Srg

  19. C’mon guys, I’m not that bad, am I?

  20. Is Javie a “visiting team official”, or does he just not give the home team the bennies that they normally get?

  21. I expect Pierce and Allen to do a lot more ballhandling in this game, as a consequence of Rondo’s injury. By harassing PP and Allen, the Lakers can shave seconds off the 24 and leave the Celtics with less time to work with. Hopefully, this will result in a lower fg%, a couple of extra turnovers, and fast break opportunities.

    I’m optimistic and I believe the Lakers blow the Celtics out tonight.

  22. I used to dread seeing Javie assigned to Lakers’ games. And because of his rep as a laker hater / egomaniac I would watch those games more closely. But I soon came to the conclusion that he is a great ref. He can be harsh, for sure. But he’s fair, consistent and in control. The games he refs are generally well played because of this.

  23. I think the Lakers will play well enough that Javie’s presence will be immaterial. I kinda hope it….but I do believe the Lakers are going to play their best game tonight.

  24. 7 hours before tip-off, a new record for worrying about referees

  25. Please stop talking about the refs. It’s a non-issue.

  26. That comment was UNfunny, UNinspired, and UNreadable.

  27. The key to Lamar is avoiding foul trouble in the 1st the quarter. In every game he has performed subpar, I have noticed that Lamar has been in foul trouble early, usually with two foul calls within a few minutes of one another. I think this gets to his head and he spends the rest of the game being too passive.

    I hope this is not the case tonight because we are really going to need him.

  28. this is, to be cliche, a “must win” game. i would really like to see the lakers win tonite, that will even up the series to the swing game 5 and a ton of pressure will be put back on the celtics. as it stands, all pressure is squarely on the lakers and we’ll see if pau and odom wilt or learned from last game and come out strong…..

  29. There was a sequence in game 3 I thought was funny.They played it back and it was even more funny.Don’t know which ref it was,silver haired,distinguished.
    Kobe tries to fight thru a pick and gets clobbered,complains to the ref not 10 feet away,tries to fight thru another pick,gets clobbered,complains to the same ref,still close,ball comes lose and there is a scramble for it,the ref calls Kobe for a foul,Kobe loses it,stomps off yelling,is followed by the ref trying to explain the call,Kobe isn’t going for it,keeps walking away followed by the ref now saying “Calm down Kobe,calm down”
    I thought it was really funny

  30. 27 – Lamar’s play has been so much of a non-factor in this series that the number of fouls he gets is irrelevant. In fact it might be said that the more the better because it would give someone else more minutes.

  31. Here’s a word I’ll throw out there that I can almost guarantee hasn’t been used in any sports-related blog in history:

    Acquiescence.

    I feel like, save G3 and the last 8 minutes of G2, the Lakers have failed to impose their will. They have been the team making others scramble throughout the majority of the regular season and WC playoffs. They’ve forced teams to match up to them, to play at their pace, to own their tempo, to control the game. The onus was on the guys in other uniforms, we set the pace of the game. Since the opening tip of this series, outside of the game situations I mentioned above, they haven’t been that team. Their body language is, at times, painful to watch. They aren’t having fun, which in my opinion was one of the most entertaining facets of this team all year…they were like a fraternity of college-age goof balls that happened to be in the NBA elite together. Why isn’t Turiaf dancing anymore? Now they look tight, worried, and sad at times. I understand this is the Finals, that tension is part of this business now, but I actually think that’s more of a reason to harness the joy that made you special in the first place. Otherwise, the Celtics are winning. You have acquiesced to their will, their style of play.

    I think that if the Lakers are to win this series, which is still very much attainable, it may be less about X’s and O’s and more about that spirit I’m defining above. They need to bring themselves back to that zone, to dial themselves in to the special group that got us here, and close out a team that hasn’t played together as long as we have (save Pau and Trevor, acquired this season). The bond of brotherhood must save the championship season, just as it created it. I feel great about tonight. Go Lakers!

  32. 29 – Kobe is the league’s biggest whiner, as evidenced by his league leading number of tees.

    If I were running the league the first thing I would do is encourage the refs to call more tees. This sort of disrespect for officials hurts the credibility of the league which is at an all time low. Flopping wouldn’t be a fine, either. It would be a yellow card. Two of them and you are out of the game. Two of them in one week and you miss the next game.

    I’d also go after team officials that make any sort of statement worse than “officiating an NBA game is a difficult job, and we support the referees efforts to call a game fairly 100%”

  33. In game 3, Phil dressed Mihm and put MBenga on the inactive list. Why ? MBenga has been getting the PT in favor of Mihm ever since his was signed. And playing well too – in my opinion. Certainly MBenga at his softest is harder than Mihm could imagine.

    One of these games, both Pau and Turiaf will get in foul trouble and it would be comforting to see MBenga in warmups rather than Mihm.

  34. 31. You said it all.. Turiaf is not dancing and being his normal self…thats says a lot.

    I think the pressure of being down 0-2 got to the lakers. It got to me and i aint even playing.

  35. 28 – All 3 of the games in LA are must win for the Lakers. Go back to Boston down 3-2 and you have low odds of winning the series.

    It is hard to say whether the pressure is on the Lakers or Celtics more for game 5 if the Lakers win tonight. Probably more on the Lakers because their chances of winning two in Boston are much less than the Celtics chances of winning two in Boston. But I am sure Boston doesn’t want to go down 3-2.

  36. From that video of Javie linked earlier, I think it’s a good thing he Tees guys up quickly. That kind of whining and complaining is spoiled-childish and degrades the game.

    I remember when I lived in Atlanta I would listen to Hawks games, and the only ref I knew by name was Steve Javie, because the radio announcer (Steve Holman?) would just go crazy. He’d warn us when Steve Javie was officiating a game, and invariably a Hawk would get Teed up. More fun than most games involving the Hawks.

  37. if we win this game (#4), we will win the Larry O’Brian Throphy.
    Go Lakers !!!!

  38. Hopefully the game is called consistent. That’s all that matters to me. Whether it be no calls because the Lakers/Celtics aren’t “going to the hole strong”, or an offensive foul on Garnett in the final minute for an illegal screen he has been doing all season, that type of stuff drives me up a wall.

    I think the Lakers really get back in this series tonight. I think we may have to withstand an early run by the C’s, but I can see us getting back to playing Lakers basketball and being the aggressor for most of the game. I’m thinking we see Pau established early in each quarter (or whenever he is first on the floor) and with a flourishing Gasol comes a solid Odom. Pau is just to smart/skilled to play subpar all series, I can’t imagine it happening. Let’s hope all that happens and we get a nice W.

  39. otbricki…one game at a time, please…….i like the lakers chances going back to boston up 3-2, i think they’re good for one game in beantown…….that is why i believe the celtics will get a nice heap of pressure if the lakeshow comes thru tonite……

  40. 38- I agree. For the Lakers, this is THE game of the series. Lakers win tonight and they have a great shot at winning the series. They lose tonight and it’s all but over. I really believe that what happens in game 4 will dictate the remainder of the series. The teams have been figuring each other out up until now, and there seems to be some doubt on both sides. If L.A. wins, they will take the psychological edge… which should be enough for this young team to explode.

    And, for all those who have called for personnel changes in light of the last few games: THIS IS THE TEAM THAT GOT THROUGH THE TOUGHEST W.C. IN MODERN HISTORY WITHOUT THEIR STARTING CENTER!!! Have we forgotten what it was like to lose to Phoenix in the first round that quickly?

    Don’t touch a thing!

  41. I’m a laker fan, but all you other laker fans posting on this board need to slow down. You sound way to confident. You guys sound like the Spurs fans sounded after Game 3 when they crushed the Lakers. How did that series turn out for them?

  42. Hey Jaz, I don´t like technical fouls. they´re a cheap way to give a team a point. it´s basketball they´re playing, not who gets the most easy points when someone gets too emotional. when someone is overly aggressive, then i think it´s ok to give a T. but not just for complaining or ¨whining¨.

  43. Otbricki, I wouldn’t want to get into whining talk if I were a Boston fan. Have you seen Doc Rivers after every foul call against his team, however legitimate the call. It’s as if the Celtics never commit any foul.

  44. The Dude Abides June 12, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    @T34 – That Garnett illegal pick in the final minute of Game 3 was only called because it was the second time he did it in the same possession. The first illegal pick in that possession was one of the most blatant illegal screens I’ve ever seen. The ref couldn’t let it go when he set another obvious illegal pick five seconds after the even more egregious first one.

  45. Please tell me if i am missing something…But when did Paul Pierce become a GREAT player…seriously.

    Just by the way he talks and people talk about him seems to suggest he has a couple of championship rings. Everytime i read a quote i cant help but think “is he that good?”

  46. Lamar , Pau.. a little Timmy bank shot will do. You dont have to crash everytime. Keep them guessing and all things will come together. The base line is your friend.

  47. I happen to like Javie for this game too. I hope that makes Laker players less likely to whine for fear of drawing a quick T. Yes, Kobe and Pau, I’m looking at you guys especially. If they dont’ stay behind and cry, maybe they’ll get back on defense better.

  48. Btw, I just saw a very condensed version of Game 3 on NBA.COM (I recommend it), and noticed a couple of things:

    - You can see why Celtics D is great – the positioning of defensive players ensures maximum coverage for each defender. And with the speed of Rondo and Garnett, they can help out and recover way too well.

    - But there ARE GAPS. On almost every play, there are gaps. However, exploiting those gaps require much faster and crisper passing than the Lakers have displayed thus far. The reason is that Celtics players never commit entirely to help D – as soon as they see Kobe hesitates, or that someone else got there, they recover quickly. So the passes to the open men have to be QUICK. Defenders simply can’t run faster than crisp passes. Laker players actually space themselves just fine – it’s their movements and passes that are not totally in sync. Cutters are going too early or too late, or the passers deliver late.

    - Odom also needs to be in a different position on the floor. Out in the corner or top of the key, he is useless because he poses zero threats from there. On either baseline or behind the basket, however, it’d be a different story. Celtics bigs’ routine is to run up outside the restricted area and try to draw charges. So Odom has some room in there to receive a pass and finish.

    - And finally, Kobe needs to be more aware of open teammates. No it’s not a hater statement. Just watch the video. Several times when Kobe drove, there were cutting or wide open teammates. If he makes those passes, Celtics D on him will be much more hesitant

    If any of you get to check out the video, let me know if I’m off base on those observations

  49. The Celtics by 10 in G1, by 6 in G2 after a furious Laker rally, Lakers by 6 in G3. Phil has made his adjustments and got this team out from behind the eight ball (for now) by getting a little better each game. I think I’m growing confidence in the fact that the Celtics don’t seem to believe they have to adjust, like they’ve got this locked and this Laker team is on the ropes. Part of me thinks they are right (read my last post at 31), but I think in the long term if the Lakers can continue to evoke Charles Darwin they may be able to rise to the occasion and beat a “better playing” team in these green monsters.

    I don’t agree with DCollins at 41, comparing these Lakers to the Spurs in the WCF. Come on, dude. Also, Anonymous at 43….Pierce isn’t Kobe or LeBron, but the proof is in the pudding. The man can knock down clutch threes and rip your heart out of your chest in half a second. He has the guts and precision of a cold blooded killer. So in a series like this, you better approach that man like he’s Michael-Jesus-Jordan. If not, it’s your peril.

    I wanna see Laker swagger back in full effect. Enough of this moping and in-fighting, having to out-quote Curt Shilling, and talking about the refs. It’s always been the same as it is now: shut up, have fun, play smart, be aggressive, win basketball games. Now we go.

  50. I think Game 5 will be key, not Game 4. Celts will still think they have one more try, while the Lakers are still up against the wall. Not to say that this isn’t a must win for them, but at least they’ll be better pepped.

    It will be interesting to see if KG and PP’s lack of production had to do with Lakers’ Defense or change in venue or fatigue or just focus.

  51. the other Stephen June 12, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    pootie tang.

  52. I smell the lake show

  53. The Lakers are controlling the tempo which they have not done all series.

  54. We finally have our flow back.

  55. This is the Pau and Lamar we’ve been looking for. Running the floor, pushing the ball, and working off of each other while in the Triangle. These are the types of plays that open up the offense.

  56. A 7 footer and a guy with 6-10 running the court like that!!!!! Awesome!!!

  57. THe Lakeshow showed up tonight.

  58. Welcome to the finals Lamar.

  59. That fast break was a thing of beauty thats what basketball is supposed to be.

  60. kg’s 2nd foul is big

  61. go sapce cadet!

  62. Ok LO7, don’t get your 2nd…

  63. FT disparity a big issue? or are they fairly natural?

  64. wow LO!

  65. rebound by Gasol!

    62. I think its too early to tell. Check the count at halftime I guess.

  66. who are these guys in purple and gold? I don’t recognize them

  67. What was that TO about?

  68. 62, pretty clean so far, Kobe might have fouled on a steal from KG early in the game (which Doc got a T for) but Kobe got called for a foul later on a clean block

  69. LO decided to show up. He hasd been missing before but so far he has decided to make an appearance.

  70. WHAt! Timeout?

  71. This is how Laker basketball is supposed to be. I know I am sometimes too harsh on Odom, but when he is playing well, the game is a thing of beauty.

  72. 67. Phil musta seen something he didn’t like. Beats me as far as I’m concerned. IMO, beggars can’t be choosers down 2-1

  73. Disparity or not, 20% shooting and 0% from 3 compared to our shooting clip really explains everything, I guess.

    I was waiting for the Celtics score to load but i guess they’re sitll in single digits.

    yay!

  74. WHOA!!

  75. Don’t fall in love with that shot though, LO7.

  76. Uhm, who’s this #7 guy, and when did he start making mid range jumpers?

  77. Where has this been all series? Sheesh!

  78. I like the Celtis body language….

  79. wow, wow!

  80. I guess the foot’s good now.

  81. if they keep this up, both teams will be well rested for game 5.

  82. I KNEW he could friggin hit those!

  83. THeres a reason why Kobe is the MVP. He has shown it that last two nights.

  84. LAKERS SET HISTORY!

  85. Most Important Thing at the end of one: KG with two fouls.

  86. What a quarter. We must stay in attack mode when the 2nd unit comes in. With Doc going to his vets, our younger guys have to continue to push the pace.

  87. 10 assists on 11 baskets…..now THAT’s Laker basketball

  88. Finally the real Lakers. Lets keep it up.

  89. kev, I couldn’t agree more. Finally!

  90. I like that Ariza made that open 3. Gives him some confidence in his jumper. The bad part (if there is one in a 22 pt lead) is that Garnett hardly played in the first quarter and his return on the floor will give the Celtics more firepower.

  91. perkins has 2 fouls too

  92. Nice flop, Powe, that would be a fine next year!

  93. 10 assists for the Lakers vs 1 for the Celtics in the first quarter. Perhaps the most telling stat of the first 12 minutes.

  94. go ariza!

  95. Mitch’s trade paying off. So, today we’ll get a T.A. special?

    I’m excited.

  96. WELCOME BACK, TREVOR!

  97. ARRRIIIIIIZZZZZA

  98. go ariza! all over the place baby!!!

    man, how much we missed your hustling on defense!

  99. I’m still waiting on the Odom special.

  100. dont like these 3s

  101. KG looked like a running back on that last trip to the basket-forearm extended pushing off and no foul.

  102. nice to see ariza in action again

  103. machine!

  104. Are announcers obligated to say Kobe is currently “the greatest player in the game” every game? Is her that much better than LeBron? Duncan? Paul?

    Don’t get me wrong, I greatly respect Kobe and what he does for the team, but is this really so black and white?

  105. Ariza… get it done

  106. Do you see why I’ve wanted Ariza in there?

    Good Lord folks this is what we saw from him before the injury!

  107. Look at Ariza go! Guys, don’t fall in love with the three! Kobe and co. should be back in a minute or less.

  108. Trevors been everywhere. Are they doing a half time special on him?

  109. Some ass whooping today

  110. Three time’s the charm, but not watching the game i am worried that we may be moving out of what worked for us in the 1st.

    how is it watching the game and not the telecast?

  111. Thank God Ariza is an athlete. Doesn’t take long for athletes to get back into athletic shape.

  112. Walton cant help but disrupt the lakeshow

  113. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    Is it neurotic for this kind of game to terrify me?

  114. The Lakers are getting wide open shots from good passing and attacking the basket. I don’t mind those shots, but Walton needs to hit a few of them.

  115. it’s lamar ‘sand ariza’s night tonight. let’s hope everyone can maintain their level of play and we’ll have a great chance at coming out 2-2

  116. Robert Horry in the house! My bad Wil Smith.

  117. Maybe all of the injuries were blessings in disguise. Scouting report on our players must be very outdated ;)

    Now, regardless of this year’s outcome, if only Bynum can be as effective as he was pre-injury…

  118. Damn, Odom… you’re giving me a 3rd degree burn through the TV right now because you’re too hot!!

  119. i love it, let’s keep up this intensity all the way to the end!

  120. Aleksandar Saša Vujacic June 12, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    I AM MACHINE

  121. machine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  122. Not sure who the x factor was in game 1, but…

    Game 2: Powe
    Game 3: Vujacic
    Game 4: Ariza? Odom? (can Odom be an x factor or is he too big a star?)

  123. I would dare Cassell to make a shot than let Garnett dominate Ronny. Cassell, throughout the entire playoffs, has proven to be a mistake.

  124. #120, I would say Ariza… Odom is performing as he -should have been- performing.

  125. I Luv L.A.

  126. it’s these flashes of brilliance from lamar that makes me helplessly expect much more out of him.

    but what flipped that switch in his head/mind/body? all of lakerland would like to know.

  127. We are falling in love with the 3….good timeout Phil

  128. Wow, that was a quick timeout.

  129. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    SMART time out, PJ

  130. Gotta match up in transition with the shooters.

  131. getting too comfortable with the lead and as lakergirl mentioned falling in love with that long range bombs.

    gotta keep to the game plan.

  132. Hrm, as much as Kobe’s struggling, i think he’ll pick it up no doubt. Besides, he seems to be taking it to the hoop so that’s good.

  133. Kobe and Farmar really need to start hitting shots or stop shooting. What we’ve been doing has been great and working thus far, Kobe doesn’t need to disrupt it for whatever reason by taking these shots.

  134. come on!

  135. I like hearing all the cameras go off when Kobe makes his move.

  136. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    12-0 run

  137. thanks fish.

  138. @130 Uh, kobe’s taken what, 4 or 5 shots? I don’t know how many less you want him to take considering he’s our freakin number 1 option and if he doesn’t look to score no one else is getting open.

  139. Oh, Fish with a huuuuuuge shot and 1.

  140. Big bucket by Fish to stop the bleeding. Phil is using this timeout to remind the guys that defense is a good idea. Close this quarter strong and try to make this run a faint memory by the time the 2nd half starts…

  141. Celtics made their run. Now its our turn.

  142. good finish gasol!

  143. GASOLLLL

  144. GASOL!!!

  145. Heck yeah!

  146. God, the passing is so much more crisp. I’d like to thank Doc for deciding to trap Kobe.

    Hey, and good to read all of you.

  147. Doc working the refs tonight huh….

  148. Kobe and KG tagged for 3 each. Interesting.

  149. Congrats Kurt.

  150. GOALTENDING

  151. Welcome back mr. kurt

  152. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    Putting the most positive spin on something: I hope that this push by the Celtics wakes the Lakers up. If they go into the 3rd up 20, they might relax and give enerthing up. Have to face a push in the second makes the last image in their mind going into the locker room is adversity, so hopefully they come out in the third as though the game is a lot closer.

  153. Nice and-1 from Pau.

    Well, we withstood their run, it seems.

  154. I guess to answer my own question (~122), it’s way to eary to tell. Will need to wait until after the game to know.

    Good to see you Kurt. I’ve seen it written that you don’t like in game chatter – sorry for contributing to that, but I’m too emotionally invested and finding it hard to keep quiet. And congrats!

  155. Spaaaaaaaaace Cadet.

    Welcome back, Kurt.

  156. oh man… rad.. you made me laugh on that one. haha.

    good try though.

  157. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

  158. Hahahahahaha Jordan called it.

  159. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    THAT’S THE FARMAR WE KNOW AND LOVE!

  160. Awesome shot. Its just one of those nights for the Lakers.

  161. farmer!

  162. there you go lamar!

    just prepare for the moment for next few more games!

  163. Seriously though, doesn’t Farmar hit a silly amount of crazy buzzer beaters?

  164. NOW WE’RE PLAYIN LAKER BALL!!!!!
    Has Lamar even missed a shot yet??

  165. Lamar said it. Its the D that has opened up the offense. The Lakers are getting the stops then pushing the ball.

  166. 165 – Yeah. He’s probably the Lakers’ #2 option behind Kobe at the end of quarters (except the 4th, generally).

  167. MIKE MOREAU: Every missed jumper by the Lakers, the basket will get smaller and smaller

    MIKE MOREAU: A championship defense would have put Fisher on the deck on that drive.

    MIKE MOREAU: Celts defense needs to pitch a shutout the last 1:30

    MIKE MOREAU: Unnecessary foul by Kobe — could come back to haunt the Lakers.

    MIKE MOREAU: Big Perk – if you are going to pick up your third, lay some would on him and get your money’s worth!

    MIKE MOREAU: Have we really seen the last of the hard fouls for this year?

    Looks like Mr Moreau over at the Truehoop chat has money on the celts…talk about laker hate

  168. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    That was a THREE?? That was an inspired insertion by PJ. Knowing that Farmar was in his Utah form, but also has the speed to get the ball up the floor and a history of buzzer beaters, PJ gives him some confidence by putting him in a position he’s succeeded before.

    The last time I saw a shot anywhere near that was when Monta Ellis hit a 30 foot floater in the great home and home mini-series against Golden State.

  169. wow 18 point lead.

  170. So who thinks Farmar intended for that shot to bank, or that it was his momemtum that made it bank?

    Or, does it even matter?

  171. 168 – what about the machine? ever seen a better buzzer beater than game 5 against the Spurs?

  172. The thing about Farmar is, he’s actually been playing pretty well this series. Tonight, too, he’s done a good job getting into the lane. He’s just not quite finishing (2 shots that were pretty good looks just barely rimmed out, and another was just a blown layup that he made harder than necessary, I believe).

  173. ok I will take 18 points lead.

  174. Yea but this is like Jordan’s 3rd or 4th buzzer beater in this last p;art of the season. He’s getting good at it.

  175. 173- You mean the buzzer beater that cost him a look from Finley and cost STAPLES tacos?

  176. Farmar is an end-of-quarter specialist. He’s been doing that all season. I guarantee you Phil made that substitution for that exact reason. Fantastic half.

  177. Wait…Staples DID get tacos that day.

  178. Congrats Kurt! Welcome back, you’re just in time for some (finally) great Lakers play.

  179. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    Congratulations, Kurt!

  180. Congrats Papa Kurt

  181. 179- by costing, i meant that they were obliged to hand them out thanks to the Sasha 3.

    If Kobe plays like this the entire game, it would make for one of those feel-good headlines:
    You pick us up, we pick you up. One for all, all for one.

    Anyway, I think we have the answer to last game’s question too. It wasn’t just PP and KG stinking, it was our defense too.

    If this ends up being a blowout, and if we can bring the same energy in Game 5…

  182. 177 – And as Simmons said, “[it} was even better in person because anyone who had the Lakers was celebrating like they had just won the Finals.”

  183. get a wheelchair

  184. Perkins’ shoulder is hurt! Give him a wheelchair, quick!

  185. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    Does perkins have a history of shoulder dislocations?

  186. wow, that sequence definitely help even out the rebound edge we had.

    Lamar gives Perkins his 4th. Niiiiice.

  187. Odom finally looks like he is having fun out there. The other games ha has looked miserable.

  188. We are making the Celts adjust to our game…thats good for a change

  189. Man I gotta take back my wheelchair comment. I regretted that the moment I hit “Submit Comment”

  190. Because, well, you don’t need a wheelchair with that kind of injury.

  191. I am enjoying this.

  192. great to be back, but I can”t yell while holing the baby.

    I love the early transition and what it did to the offense. this has been fun.

  193. Lamar took the most shots with 8, and Vlad, Kobe, Pau all took 7 each. The others have all taken at least two shots with the exception of Ronny.

    Other than Kobe being 2/7, (or maybe because of him being 2/7) I like what i’m seeing.

  194. lets not do what the celts did and give bach the 20 point lead.

  195. they are crawling back again!

  196. Will Kobe finish with more assists than points?

  197. These refs are favoring the Lakers.

  198. Wow. How come Vlad didn’t foul Ray Allen on that layup? Now it’s down to 10…

  199. Lamar and Pau need to keep their concentration and intensity. That turnover happened when Lamar wasn’t ready to catch the pass from Fisher.

  200. 201. But kobe was wide open on the 3pt line….Fisher should have never passed it into traffic

  201. Kobe 4 steals, just score a little more.

  202. Wow, Garnett. I’ve lost all respect for that guy. What the hell was that?

  203. 2 minutes into the 3rd quarter, the Celtics appear to have settled down and the Lakers have eased off (Fish can’t let Ray Allen get rebounds like that!). i think this game is going to get competitive unless the Lakers turn the pressure up. Now.

  204. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    Now we need kobe to find his offense.

  205. i would expect all the boston fans to show up right about now in this forum.

  206. The Celts own the 3rd…we own the 4th

  207. wow. completely self-destructing.

  208. who’s nervoussssssssssss?

  209. I was enjoying the game.

  210. Was Lamar on the bench?

  211. Wow. That could not have gone worse.

  212. wow that was a quck turn around. from 18 up to 2

  213. celts have the momentum we need to settle and regroup…someone needs to comeout and hit a big shot

  214. A good run to start the fourth will be nice

  215. Lamar got lost again….

  216. jesus christ, kobe, make a fricking shot

  217. Pierce is getting away with some ridiculously physical D on Kobe.

  218. What happened to Odom dominating through drives? Ball movement? We’re back to the stagnant Kobe offense but he’s been cold all game

  219. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    Oh man.

  220. 200. I agree. The Lakers stopped moving the ball. We need more ball movement and less Kobe Iso.

  221. did anyone really think the lakers would hold this lead? they haven’t played well with big leads all season

  222. Gut check time. This where the Lakers prove they can fight through adversity, or Boston proves it’s a championship team. C’mon Lakers…

  223. Kobe, I don’t mind if you take the game over now.

  224. Great gotta get out in transition. Thats how we got the lead

  225. dafish, now i am surprised why didn’t get the wheelchair… lol

  226. The Lakers offense need a wheelchair much more than any Celtic right now.

    But I am looking forward to the Love Guru, so you can tell I’m an idiot.

  227. post up lamar! posey got 5!!!

  228. Kobe looks like he has nothing left

  229. odom should be killing posey every time down.

  230. odom we need you buddy

  231. Thorpe keeps saying Kobe is exhausted… looks like it, that’s for sure.

  232. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    What the hell kind of pass is that? Gasol has made some TERRIBLE pass attempts as the Celtics have come back. Its unconscionable. Those are stupid plays when you’re up 20 let alone now!

  233. pulling rondo was move of the game…our defense pretty much consisted of sagging off all shooters, doubling off rondo and daring him to shoot

  234. absolutely dead staples crowd too

  235. j. d. hastings June 12, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Kobe’s fault

  236. dang it farmar… swing to sasha on the corner and then drop pass to lamar that would’ve been a layup. geesh.

  237. wow, off i go to lunch and i find something ugly.

  238. Cant watch…..punking out on this one

  239. Kobe is the most overrated dude ever. I mean Lamar has got it going and this idiot keeps hogging the ball. I hope our Lakers come through. We need Fisher back in…

  240. Everyone watching this game in any shape or form knows it’s all on Kobe now.

  241. Where is the crowd? The Lakers need their support. Can’t watch.

  242. Ridiculous flop by Pierce.

  243. Let’s go Celtics. Make them free throws – show the world that you’re the absolute truth, PP.

  244. Just shows how good we are – even though our starting PG isn’t close to 100%, we are gonna win Game 4!

  245. Well, what do the Laker supporters have to say now?!

  246. lakers lost the crowd w/ their pitiful play. this loss falls squarely on kobe’s shoulders.

  247. The TRUTH comes through in LA!!!

  248. GAME OVER!!!!

  249. UHM. What was THAT?

  250. wow… rollercoaster.

  251. i cannot believe we blew this.

  252. this poss, and the pierce on kobe in game 2. just ridiculous.

  253. Well, I think Allen has to be the player of the game. My point is that when we win Game 5, which Celtic gets Finals MVP – my pick is Ray Allen.

  254. The MACHINE can’t stop me!!!

  255. No guts, no championship, let’s admit it. Gasol never played a crucial game properly in his career. Odom, good 1st quarter, no clutch game (never!!!).

  256. it’s got to be paul pierce. jesus christ, i can’t believe i’m discussing who the celts mvp is.

  257. Tough, tough loss.The Lakers simply were outplayed. Celtics took this one from them. Props.

  258. Amazing how the play after two timeouts ended up with a Pau Gasol 3 attempt.

  259. Okay, my bad for taking a lunch break during the pivotal 3rd quarter.

    Gosh darn it.

  260. laughing hard June 12, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    I’m just floored. I think I need some time to wrap my head around what happened here.

  261. This is our big fish story: the one that got away

  262. The lakers just stopped playing. We looked dazzed. this is a stunning loss, but we don’t deserve anything if we play like this again.

  263. Fear is here. The Lakers need to show desperation and heart and channel it positively…….

    [Also how egregious was that Foul on Kobe on the Pierce flop, and how maddening was the lack of rotation on the Allen layup.]

  264. now i know how the spurs feel

  265. Have I mentioned the need to trade Odom this coming season?

    Looks like this is 1984 all over again.

    Course that means next year could be 1985. Ah well, I’m relatively calm about the loss. Don’t really think they can come back and win it now. Not with two players (Odom and Gasol) who seem to get dear in the headlight looks when things start happening. Either way next year we have Bynum who certainly does have a fire inside and of course those beautiful hand of his.

  266. Worst loss that I can remember, ever. Sick to my stomach. But, if you blow a 24-point lead at home, you do not deserve to be champions. Credit the Celtics. for the W.

    Also, while I welcome intelligent Celtics fans here, I would like to respectfully suggest that you celebrate and smacktalk on a Celtics’ site, instead of here. You will have plenty of company.

  267. Worst. Loss. Ever.

  268. the other Stephen June 12, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    “absolutely dead staples crowd too”

    Comment by Goo — June 12, 2008 @ 8:33 pm

    seriously. i’m ashamed of that crowd. if anything was to be done, it should have been in the third quarter. why is it that we haven’t done anything about the consistently huge third quarter scoring disparity throughout this series, but haven’t dealt with it?

  269. That was a pathetic 2nd half.

  270. Bottom line is the Lakers completely pooped the bed. The Celts took our best shot and didn’t fold. They proved they’re the better team tonight. I know it’s not over until it’s over, but I don’t see how the Lakers come back from this. The rip-out-their-heart game we hoped we’d get in game 2? The C’s just got it.

  271. Kobe, is back to his normal self… The Celtics comeback was really impressive, even though their key players are injured. Hands up to them. We still have a chance, but I think the Celtics will win in 6, unless Kobe stops shooting far far far jumpshots.

  272. We can’t afford to pay Lamar $14 million for a player who folds in pressure situation. This was a team loss and not Lamar’s responsibility, but he was in a position to dominate his man and couldn’t get it done when the pressure started rising in the 3rd. Then he couldn’t contribute enough – offensively or defensively – in the 4th and Jackson probably should have replaced him much sooner. It is just that he has so very much talent – just not the head.

    We need to make a decision about our very large payroll and I think Lamar has worked himself into to trade this summer, instead of a lower contract next summer. His talent is now redundant to that of Gasol. Who wants to trade Gasol at PF and keep Lamar???

  273. The loss was a combination of the Lakers going completely cold and not moving the ball, and the Celtics just going red hot.

    Simply put, they made big shots down the stretch, the Lakers did not

    This is a great, great learning experience for the team. Just painful as hell

  274. @Stephen, the thing with our crowd that I’ve noticed is that the players need to ignite the crowd, not the other way around. Usually takes one or two plays where the effort is that that turns things around for the crowd. But yea, if the players don’t do it, it ain’t happening.

  275. Ugh. Like others have said before me, it’s pretty bad to lose…but with that pathetic crowd…

  276. the story of the series: we needed two stops (pierce on kobe), and allen layup, and couldn’t get it.

    the sub-story is that phil is getting severely outcoached by doc rivers.

  277. eddie house—mvp of this game…with ranjo out, kobe couldn’t be the designated doubler…argh…kurt happy for you for having a baby but next time plan the birthh a month after finals!! :-P

  278. So, where do we go from here? Are we start “looking forward?” I belive we should act as the team should, that is retain out emotional investment until the very end. While not plausible, it is possible for us to still comeback. Hope is such a wonderful thing, and we must not lose it.

  279. The funny thing is, looking at the box score, their big 3 and our big 1 and two IFs balanced each other out.

    It was posey and house going for nearly 30 pts while Sasha, Jordan, and Vlad scored less than 20.

    Anyway, not having watched the game… what happened to Ariza? He seemed to be causing lots of trouble for the Celtics, but didn’t play much.

  280. Best. Win. EVER.

  281. Joe – truer words have NEVER been said.

  282. My heart for the Lakers has just be torn into a million pieces.

  283. Learning experience for our young players is a good thing to remember. They’ve got plenty of years left and championship aspirations don’t end tonight. Celts were the team that was supposed to win and we were supposed to be in the Lottery. With Bynum back we become very formidable and probably have a lock on the championship for the next couple years.

  284. Id rather have lost by 20 than lose a 20 pt lead and eventually lose a game like that.

    Lakers deserve to lose this game because of the lack of killer instinct to make that 24pt lead to 34 and then 44 and so on….

    Give Boston credit, they believed in themselves that they can come back and they did..

    Hate to say it…but the fat lady is singing soon for the Lakers.

  285. 279. “the sub-story is that phil is getting severely outcoached by doc rivers.”

    That is the LAST thing anyone would’ve predicted at the outset of this series, but it’s hard to deny at this point. If you could’ve laid a prop bet on that before the series started, you’d be a millionaire.

  286. 277. I’m not so sure. If I’m going to be so invested into a team as to pay $300 at least for a playoff seat, I’m yelling the entire game. Maybe not standing like a college game, because there are kids and such who won’t be able to see over me, but I am yelling and jeering until I start coughing blood.

    Of course, its that whole $$ thing in the way of all that.

  287. I’ve lost my hopes in this team. I don’t mind the next season and Bynum and whatever.

    This was really, truly, amazingly embarrasing…

  288. harold, Phil does what Phil does best, take out the hot man for his regular rotation. To his credit though he did have him in there for a little in the third but I thought he pulled the trigger way to quick in taking him out. Obviously with the smaller lineup of the Celts he would have been a tremendous help (nevermind he blocked Ray Allen earlier and Sasha, well Sasha couldn’t do that when we need it).

  289. the other Stephen June 12, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    THEY NEED TO WORK OUT HOW TO PLAY IN THE THIRD QUARTER. i don’t know why we haven’t been talking about that.

  290. I don’t know how you can say Phil was outcoached when the Celts are driven by an Assistant Coaches defensive schemes and raw emotion. Seriously, in ANY Wired segments have you ever heard him call out specifics adjustments or play calls? Not me, it’s all about the Celts being better, or “play harder guys” or some other hustle talk. The Lakers have two massive ? marks when it comes to the flow of the offense in tight game situations. Phil can’t do much with an Odom who sits on the bench and and a Gasol that is desperately looking for Kobe any time he gets the ball in the 4th.

  291. WOW. I know Kobe is going to take alot of heat for this choke job but here is what I saw. Kobe was out there by himself in that 4th quarter. There was players out there that just wanted no part of the basketball when the game got close. Players were in position to make plays but all they wanted to do was pass it back to Kobe and get out of the way.

  292. I think the criticism you guys have presented today is the actual argument behind why others’ find the LAker crowd less than saavy. I think some it has to do with the fact that due to the prices the possessors of the tickets have a significantly higher proportion of people that would not be considered true, saavy fans, especially due to the demand from non Laker Fans for Laker events.

  293. Maybe if Kobe actually tried to make that three instead of just flailing his arms Ginobili-style

  294. 3rd quarter disparity seems to show that PJ is being outcoached. Doc comes up with an answer to the problems that plagued the Celts in the first half, while the Lakers simply have no response.

    Anyway, what we found out today is that, unlike Boston who can survive a poor outing from their big 3, we really can’t survive a poor outing from Kobe.

    Can’t blame that sorely on Kobe, but I really can’t help but think what this game would have looked like if Kobe just kept feeding Lamar instead of trying to get his.

  295. I am honestly really speechless right now.

  296. I do agree that pulling Ariza was pretty inexplicable. Even if he was hurting the offense, the offense didn’t do anything anyway. Pierce was abusing Lamar – getting Ariza in to play either PP or Allen (with Kobe on the other) would have been a much better defensive alignment. Almost as bad as scoring so little in the 2nd was giving up so many points.