Let’s Talk Trade

Kurt —  December 29, 2008
San Antonio Spurs v Los Angeles Lakers, Game 5

I really don’t understand the idea of trading Chris Mihm for Tyronn Lue, the rumor that has gained enough momentum to be taken seriously. But then, any Laker trade rumor is harder to kill than Freddy Krueger.

The Lakers don’t save any money in this proposed deal — Lue actually makes more than Mihm. They trade big for small, and they do it for just a back-up guy to fill in for two months. Because if you’ve seen Lue play at all recently, you know he is no Jordan Farmar.

The Bucks gave Lue the old trade spotlight game Saturday, giving him key minutes against Detroit. What did he do with it: 0-7 from the floor, 0-5 from three, and made Allen Iverson look a decade younger on defense.

Did you watch Sasha Vujacic last night? He can play the point in the triangle. He had 17 points on 6 of 10 shooting, 4 of 7 from three, had a season best six assists to just two turnovers, and looked solid on defense.

Some Lakers fans have this odd, unnatural affection for Lue and think he’s a good defender. He is not. So far this season, opposing point guards are shooting over 60% (eFG%) against him, scoring 23 points per 48 minutes and have a PER of 22.7. That is the same as having a Tony Parker or Chauncey Billups playing against you every night.

And if you thought he played stellar defense against Iverson in the finals seven years ago, you must not remember The Answer stepping over him after hitting a key three late in game one. I remember that.

In the end, this trade would not be a big deal if it went down because neither Lue nor Mihm will see key minutes in the playoffs. (If they do, the Lakers have some serious problems.) But it still makes no sense to me.

A lot of Lakers fans think that this team, this 25-5 team, needs to make a trade. If you think so, this is the rare comment thread here to throw it out.

But, remember, if you want to trade Lamar Odom, you have to remember he is part of a winning three-man front line for the Lakers. You have to replace his production and role on the team, and as much as I think the Lakers can get more from Josh Powell, he is not Odom (the guy with the best +/- on the team).

And, one more thing in your trade suggestions — make sure it makes sense for both teams. Just because you want Devin Harris doesn’t mean the Nets are going to trade him.

Kurt

Posts

126 responses to Let’s Talk Trade

  1. After watching The Machine last night, I feel a lot better about our team as is without Farmar for a while…

  2. Just got back from a week-long vacation with little-to-no internet access (due to extended family time and glitchy not-mine computers) so I’ve been playing catchup. Watched the Warriors game semi-live, and then the Celtics game on my Tivo last night after getting back in town, and I read a week’s worth of threads this morning, so I’m almost caught up (still have to watch the Grizz and Hornets games that I Tivo’d while away).

    All that said, I agree with Kurt – there is no reason to make a panic trade at this point. Mihm may not play much – okay, ever – but he’s a nice insurance policy to have. He’s not AB, and he’s not Pau, but he’s still a starting quality big man, a nice luxury to have. And while we miss Jordan’s explosiveness in transition and ability to provide instant offense, I think we can get by just fine with a three-man backcourt rotation. Those of you who remember the late 80s will recall that is exactly what both the Lakers and Pistons used to great effect – a three-guard rotation with a combo guard coming off the bench that could spell both starters. The Lakers would bring Coop off the bench to spell Scott at the 2, and five or so minutes later, bring back Scott give Magic a rest, shifting Coop back to the 1. The Pistons would do the same with Isaiah-Dumars-Vinnie Johnson.

    Sasha can do the same thing for this team, especially in this offense. As has been pointed out repeatedly before, the triangle does not require a true PG to be run effectively. As such, Sasha’s glaring weakness as a playmaker is not a factor. All the triangle requires of a PG is that he be an adequate ballhandler and passer, be able to move without the ball and spot up on the perimeter, and be a capable defender. Sasha can handle all three requirements just fine – in fact, he’s an upgrade over Farmar in all but the first requirement.

  3. I think the reason this trade has gotten legs is because fans want to see us go 73-9 or better, and don’t think that’s possible with a key reserve missing. Injuries happen, and this is a great time to have one, it’s much better than around playoff time. I’d rather have Mihm than Lue, if Bynum got hurt again he could fill in decently as a backup. Meanwhile if Fish or Farmar got hurt, we don’t necessarily need a backup PG since we have a good amount of players who can handle the ball.

  4. also, and i feel bad saying this since he was lost to injury, i feel as tho the perimeter defense has been allot better with Jordan out since it has given time to Sasha and Trevor, both who are better defenders. or is that just me?

  5. I can’t believe the Lakers actually want Lue. They may get a guard, but I doubt (hope) it is Lue. Lue, simply put, isn’t that good of a basketball player.

  6. 4- I agree. The Sasha/Ariza PG defense has been better than what Jordan was giving us. Either that will inspire Jordan to improve upon return, or it will have shown the staff that there are (in-house) options to go to if Jordan comes back and is still playing sub-par defense.

  7. I just want to hear what other Lakers fan think about this proposition…an Earl Watson (Thunder) for Radmanovic swap straight up.

    For the record, I’m more than comfortable standing pat. I believe Sasha deserves more time on the court, and this is his chance to showcase his versatility.

  8. Watson is a good backup who can certainly defend, but his lack of size and wayward shooting would be a problem. Besides, having him as a third-string PG earning over $6M would be a luxury (unless Farmar isn’t re-signed).

  9. Let The Machine play. I don’t think anyone thinks that a performance against the Dubs’ D is any indication of what to expect but it can certainly can be a fire starter for a player like Sasha.

    It seems to me the injury and lack of PT has effected The Machine’s calibration and a few weeks of steady play at the point should set him right. I personally like it when the Lakers switch Ariza, Kobe and now Sasha onto some of the smaller PGs. It reminds me of what Pippin used to do for the Bulls.

  10. 7 — I like the idea of dumping Radmanovic, and I like Watson, but I think he lacks the outside shooting to fit into the triangle long term. Still, I’m tired of seeing Radmanovic on the bench…

  11. Let’s see…Odom, Walton, Vlade.

    Do we always need to trade somebody???

    Why can’t we play with the people we have?

  12. Craig W.

    Yeah I don’t understand it either. Why do we need to trade anyone?

    The only way i see the Lakers making a move is if its one that sheds salary for them. If they can trade either Walton of Radmon for a player with an expiring contract that could adequitly fill in if someone got injured, then I see mitch making a move. But other than that I just don’t see it. Shedding salary would help them resign Ariza who will be getting a pay raise next year either from us or someone else.

  13. Just a thought, but is it possible that the Lakers want Lue solely to practice against? This team, like many teams, struggles with quick, small, point guards, and will likely have to face at least 1 of them in the playoffs. Maybe Lue can be the “Scout Team quarterback” during practice, so the Laker bigs and point guards can get more consistent practice defending a quick, small guard in pick-and-roll situations? They don’t have a guy to play this role with Farmar out.

  14. Yeah but Vlade is rotting on the bench. After three seasons he still shows consistent defensive lapses — so when exactly is he going to learn? It certainly looks like Phil is tired of him.

    He’s basically dead money. Do you really want to pay him through 2010-2011?

  15. 11. I don’t think the Lakers should make a move either. But you should see my mail inbox. Plenty of ideas thrown at me. But, apparently none of them want to put their ideas here so they can be vetted, at least so far.

  16. Vlad is owed a lot of money, and because of that he will be hard to move. Few GMs want to take on a lot of years in a deal they bring in.

  17. I’m infatuated with big guards, which is why I like Chicago’s Thabo Sefolosha so much. No, he isn’t a point guard. But he’s a good, long defender. The Bulls have an abundance of wings and not enough bigs, which is why I think a Mihm-for-Sefolosha swap makes sense for the teams involved.

    And when Mihm’s contract expires, there’ll be more money to offer Ben Gordon.

  18. Basically, we don’t need anyone. Sure, an All-Star SF or PG would be nice to have, but we are not getting one at the expense of something really valuable. As such, let’s just stand pat and use the guys we have. Many of them have flaws which can be worked throughout the season…

    Lue… You’re kidding me, right?

  19. I don’t think that trade makes sense at all, and I don’t see the Lakers making that mistake. Mihm is cheap insurance if a big got hurt, and Lue bring s nothing. I think we’ll be fine without Farmar, and think the extra time will benefit Sasha. I always thought he would eventually become a starter, so let him and Vlad the extra mintues. No need to make a move.

    Also, January and early February are going to be a tough. We play tough teams, including two teams we’ve lost to, and 5 back to backs. It’s was very good that they handled business these past 4 games, because the momentum they’ve gained will be huge going into 2009.

    7 (gaston),

    Have you seen Earl Watson? He’s no good. He would bring us nothing. Before everyone dumps on Vlad, keep in mind, that when he’s playing, and hitting his shot, our offense is absolutely unstoppable. None of these proposals I’m reading do anything for us, but waste a roster spot. It’s not saving money, if the player coming has no NO VALUE.

  20. *unless it is at the expense of something really valuable.

  21. First things first: no trades from the rotation, OK? If it’s not broken, do not fix it. Lakers are above .800 – there’s nothing to fix.

    As for Mbenga/Mihm – I really don’t care. Probably attitude is more important than skills, when we are talking about pine riders.

    That said I’d rather have PG type instead of Big Stiff. We are set at PF/C, while at PG we are a little thin. Yes, Ariza/Bryant could defend PGs, but with another PG we would have more flexibility.

    But, frankly, I don’t think it would matter a lot. As long as Lakers don’t trade for/sign Marbury – I’m satisfied with the team. Sometimes the best thing to do is do nothing.

  22. Kurt,

    You never know with Vlad. Somebody like the Heat or possibly the Bulls could give Vlad a lukewarm feel as they could both use his ability to spread the floor and add some size. Especially in February. We probably wouldn’t get much in return (maybe a 2nd rounder, cash and a bench player like James Jones or Sefolosha ).

  23. I’m in the camp that Lue is not the guy we want.

    why don’t we trade Vlade to Russia for Pargo? (just kidding, but…) I do think Pargo would be a guy who would actually plus the team, get playing time, fit the triangle, good shooter, defender, etc… but I hear the contract situation is complicated.

    what about some of these bottom dwellers looking to next year already? similar to what we did with Memphis for Pau, have we explored, (discussed) all these options?

    for instance, I have heard that Thabo Sefolosha could be had, and sounds like an interesting proposition.

  24. Agreed that Vlad should be moved, but finding a taker will be hard. With the way Luke has played lately though, Vlad’s lucky for 10-15 minutes.

    Off the top of my head, Philly is desperate for a good 3-point shooter, but I’m not sure who they would be willing to give up that we would consider appealing. If they’re struggling at the trade deadline, then they might start shopping Miller, but at that point, fixing their outside shooting would be only one of many problems.

    Golden State is already out of the 2010 mix with the ridiculous extension Stephen Jackson got, so they might want another shooter that can play in Nelly’s system. Haven’t they been shopping Randolph?

  25. Oh, and remember that we still have nearly our full midlevel to throw around, so landing Pargo or someone similar is a possibility. Maybe call Bonzi Wells back from China? He’s probably bored with his 50 pt. games already.

  26. I would rather have an insurance 3rd point guard than Mihm. That doesn’t mean I want to trade for some C- point guard (e.g. Lue) and have him play instead of Sasha. What I want is insurance in case Fisher or Sasha get hurt. We simply don’t have another ball handling guard behind them for the next two months, and there is still some risk associated with Farmar’s recovery. Mihm is a great insurance big man, but we are fine there with Powell (and even Mbenga) able to do about what he does. So, I’m in favor of trading/signing a 3rd point guard, provided it doesn’t cost us anything close to a rotation player or 1st round pick, and stashing them on the bench as insurance.

  27. The Lakers have many moveable parts to trade (Walton, Vlad, Odom, Mihm, but there is nothing much out there that they can actually trade for:

    Point guards are at a premium today (you can’t get Paul or D Will except for maybe trading Kobe) and the drop of from the good starters in the league to the back-ups is huge – Pargo was good last year but is in Russia, the Toronto situation was resolved with Ford going to Indiana, so who is really left?

    Regarding small foward, too bad we can’t combine Luke’s smarts and passing, Vlad’s shot, Ariza’a athleticism and defense and Lamar’s ball handling and offensive mobility. You can’t trade for anyone who comes near that combination (is there anyone?).

    Cosmetic trades until Farmar comes back as everyone noted are not exciting, so what is left?

    Unless a favorable blockbuster deal comes along, I think the Lakers stay pat. Shasha and Ariza are getting good minutes and PJ is comfortable with defense utilizing big guards (and as has been noted the Triangle doesn’t require a true point guard.

    After all, as the Lakers stand now, they can win the title.

  28. Doc B raised the idea of dealing for Lue because of the speed element he could bring to practice. Perhaps, but dealing for Lue is a still a bad idea for several reasons.

    First and foremost, he’s not very good. Never has been. There’s a reason he’s on the Chucky Brown “Play for every time in the NBA” career track.

    Secondly, practicing against Lue won’t make it any easier for the other guards once the games begin. The rules favor guards these days, and no amount of practice experience will make it any easier to hand-check or do the other (now illegal) things needed to be done to slow a Tony Parker or Chris Paul. This isn’t a question of “practice makes perfect.” You can only do so much to slow down a quick point guard with the way the NBA rules are enforced these days. Lue on the bench won’t impact that fact at all.

    Lastly, don’t underestimate Mihm’s value to the team simply because it isn’t evident in games. Bynum and Gasol benefit from practicing against a talented player with size such as Mihm. Also, from every account I’ve heard Mihm is great person who is liked and respected within the organization. Shipping him out would affect chemistry.

    I see no good reason to make this deal.

    As for trading RadMan, good luck. That contract is an albatross, and Zeke no longer has a franchise to ruin by taking on such bad deals. Maybe Kevin McHale is dumb enough, but I doubt he’d make a trade to help L.A. given his green blood.

  29. “every team,” I meant to type.

  30. Any way to get Sergio Rodriguez? I know he wanted out earlier in the year, he knows Pau, and can definitely handle the ball.

  31. too bad we can’t combine Luke’s smarts and passing, Vlad’s shot, Ariza’a athleticism and defense and Lamar’s ball handling and offensive mobility. You can’t trade for anyone who comes near that combination (is there anyone?)

    His name, unfortunately, is LeBron. So no trade there.

    I’m in the move Luke or Vlade camp, although I love Walton’s game, aside from his often wayward J and defensive slowness. Problem is, both players have above-market contracts which make them impossible to move without giving up some under-market up-and-comer like Farmar or Ariza, who I would not like to see moved.

    Mihm could be a good asset in a deal like that, as he would be an upgrade at the starting 5 for 8-10 teams. But we’d likely have to take back some cap filler in a Vlade/Mihm deal which 1) could keep them from resigning free agents, like Farmar or Ariza (not to mention Odom, though he’s making noises like he might take less to stay) over the coming years and 2) impacts the luxury tax outlook, which Buss is becoming increasingly sensitive towards.

    Kupchak makes really good trades: The Gasol trade was a misdemeanor snatch-and-grab, the Ariza trade was Grand Theft Small Forward (not taking anything away from Gasol at all, but losing two first-round picks will hurt in a few years–ask Phoenix). If they’re going to make a move, it won’t be Lue-for-Mihm, it’ll be some fabulously complex deal that brokers them a solid backup and hopefully a nice prospect or salary cap room.

  32. I’d LOVE Sergio, but doubt Portland would give him to us — especially for a non-rotation player. Is there any way?

    Other PGs I’d think about (and that might be available for something reasonable):

    Sessions, Nate Robinson, Andre Miller (if Philly wants to give up), Felton, Watson.

  33. Since Kurt mentioned Odom deals and said people email him with proposals but haven’t posted them here, I’ll post a proposal I emailed him a while back: Odom for Michael Redd. My thinking was the Lakers could put Redd in the starting SG spot and move Kobe to the SF spot. This move would presumably put Sasha in as full time backup PF till Farmar got healthy (then I don’t know where Sasha’s minutes would come from), and the Lakers could go with a 3 man rotation at SG-SF between Redd, Kobe and Ariza. This would probably kill Luke’s minutes and move Vlad to spot minutes as 3rd string PF behind Pau and Powell. It would also obviously break up the 3 man rotation the Lakers have going at PF-C by moving Odom, and would probably give Powell and Mihm more PT as Bynum and Pau’s backups.

    My main reason for proposing this trade was my worry that at the end of the games Phil was still going with Pau and Odom at the 5/4 spots, and that’s the same frontcourt that was finishing games last year when the Lakers lost to Boston. I felt that a lineup of Bynum, Pau, Kobe, Redd & Fisher on the floor at the end of games against Boston would give LA a better starting five matchup against the Celtics, and would allow LA to play their best 4 players together. However, since seeing Phil go with Bynum & Pau in crunch time against Boston, I’m not really worried about that anymore; and as I said in a thread the other day, I think that Odom actually could be brought in alongside those guys at SF instead of Luke to end games against Boston and it would work pretty well (since Odom’s deficiencies at the SF position are pretty much the same ones Luke has).

    I don’t think the Lakers should make any trades right now, unless they can pull off another steal the way they did last year with Gasol. I would be in favor of them trading either Vlad or Luke simply for the financial sense it would make due to the size and length of their contracts, and because seemingly the Lakers only have room for one of them in the rotation; but I doubt there’d be any takers for either of them due to their contracts. Outside of that though, I think the team is good as is. Mihm’s contract expires this summer, same as Lue’s, and I think that Farmar’s injury is a cloud with a silver lining as it is freeing up playing time for some guys who weren’t seeing enough before he got hurt. The Lakers don’t need any other players in the rotation right now. If someone else gets hurt, then that’s another story, but let’s hope that doesn’t happen.

  34. re: sergio rodriguez

    i think rodriguez would be unhappy in l.a. He’s already cried about getting more pt, and when farmar returns he’ll be demoted to the 3rd string.

  35. Just to throw in another name…. what about Javaris Crittenton? Is he even getting any pt @ washington?

  36. Scum,

    Why not? Probably the best thought I’ve read so far.

  37. Washington might be interested in Mihm since Haywood is out all year, and with Arenas coming back at some point, they probably won’t have need for Critt. I’d rather see the Lakers try to get him back than Lue.

  38. I am not sure Farmar is the PG of the future for us, but who are we going to get that is better right now? We have some decent players to offer – Mihm, Walton, Radman, but who really wants their contracts?

    Basically, I think the players we can afford to trade are Mihm, Luke, Rad, and Farmar. But I don’s see us getting anyone better.more productive.

    Lue for Mihm is trading one player who is not helping us much for another player who won’t help.

    I agree with Sasha gettng a shot running the point. Between him, Fish, Kobe and LO I think we can manage to get the ball up court and into our offense. I know we only scored 130 last night but we’ll limp along…..

    Barring key injuries – this team could easily win the championship if they all get on the same page and can maintain focus. I don’t get all the trade talk (unless it is another Kwame for Pau type deal).

    VoR

  39. Ugh, I think I just threw up a little.

    We should start an anti-Lue petition. Everything’s been said already. He will scarcely help this team, if at all.

    Look, my thinking is the complete opposite. Even when Farmar gets back, I want Sasha as the first guard off the bench. Sasha plays better with increasing minutes, and when he’s hot he can shift the entire game (if not a series) for us.

    The few problems we have with Sasha (controlling the tempo, “PG” stuff) Lue will not solve. It can be solved simply by having better execution of the triangle, in which a true PG is not needed. Everyone already knows this, it doesn’t even bear repeating.

    Simply put, no Lue. Sasha is much better.

    And Sasha is, with greater PT, our 3rd best guard. He IMHO should be the first guard off the bench even with all our players healthy.

  40. WildYams,

    You can’t be a Boston fan? How is this possible?

  41. Since this is the only chance we have to talk trade, I’ll throw this out there:

    Delonte West.

    Most likely, untouchable. But he’s the only PG out there I see as “ideal” for our team, the only player we should actively try to get.

    A more realistic option? Perhaps Ramon Sessions, who Scott Skiles is not using to his full potential.

    J-Crit for Mihm (and possibly Powell) seems somewhat feasible as well. Mihm is underrated, and Wash needs big men.

    Bottom line, we don’t need a trade, but we should still be on the lookout for bargains. The only non-PG possible need I see is a stronger (but athletic) SF. We already have Ariza, but he struggles with the stronger, bigger SF in the league. Plus, IMO he’s a great help defender but a bit overrated as an individual defender. That said, there probably aren’t any great options out there.

    The only possibility I really like is Pietrus, who’s long enough to play the 3. I think he’d be much more effective in a limited role with us than with the full-time SG role he has now.

    That said, trade talk is fun and all, but we really don’t need anyone at this point. Chemistry a delicate thing, and right now we have it.

  42. Honestly. I think that the fact that this trade proposal is “out there” pretty much guarantees it won’t happen.

    History has shown us that any trade the Lakers have made recently were never leaked, and any trade mentioned has never materialized.

  43. what about if we think of what can we get for LO? (since as snoop says, this is our only chance to talk about trades here)
    LO for Hienrich? is he even available? would he be a good fit? salaries match? LO will have a greater value due to this being last year of a contract as well…
    don’t get me wrong, I’m happy having LO on our team…but just thinking outside the box a little bit.

  44. What’s the point of talking about trades that will NEVER happen, or couldn’t possibly happen for the sake of it?

  45. Why would we trade depth at center for a backup PG when Farmar is one of the best backup PGs in the league and will be back in February?

    I would say we have done alright since he’s been out.

  46. 44 – It’s fun. To some of us, at least.

  47. (46) Snnopy,

    Valid point, I guess. Well, let me play devil’s advocate on one. Here’s some fun:

    LBJ and Ben Wallace for Bynum, Farmar, and Vlad when LBJ tells Cleveland to trade him, so they don’t get left out in the cold when he leaves.

    I doubt this will make it through Kurt’s filter. Haha. Let me stop.

  48. 31 – Yes, except for perhaps Vlad’s shooting and Ariza’s defensive quickness.

    My only question about JCritt is why could he not get playing time on 2 bad teams (Memphis and Wash)?

  49. 47 – lmao I like that one. We might have to throw in a 2nd round draft pick to make it more realistic lol

    48 – In Memphis he was playing behind Lowry, a very underrated PG, and Conley, a not-so-good PG who was nonetheless drafted 3rd and so will see PT regardless. It is, however, more concerning that he hasn’t seen PT in Washington. I don’t know if realistically he’ll end up a better option than Farmar. But he’s a big PG (Phil’s type) and he has some major potential. On the other hand, Kobe liked him, and Kobe, unfortunately, has not shown great GM intuition.

  50. 49- The one thing JCritt did when he was on the Lakers was light a fire under Farmar’s butt because he had competition for the #2 point guard spot. But Shasha and Ariza playing well at that spot could do the same.

  51. ok i’m a rookie on these forums, so don’t bash on me, but what about coby karl? is he not a point guard, can’t the lakers call him up? i dunno what do you guys think?

  52. Remember when Ty Lue got his “big” deal with the Wizards to the tune of $9 million over 3 years? Good times, good times.

    Washington still owes us for us gifting Caron Butler to them for the Kwame Brown/Laron Profit poo poo platter. What about Nick Young / Juan Dixon / Mike James / (or oft lusted after) J-Critt? Surely Washington wouldn’t be adverse to parting with one or two of those guys for a good defensive center? Plus, all those guys are bench fodder anyway. And the bonus that Washington isn’t in our conference, making them more likely to trade with us.

    Lue wasn’t good in his prime. He wasn’t even a backup. Pargo is no picnic, either (CP3 averaged 38min/game last year for a reason). Let us not forget the Hornets’ playoff flame out game 7 vs. the Spurs.

  53. 51 – As far as I know, Coby Karl is no longer a Laker. He was waived before the season began.

  54. the only trade i would make is to get prince. i would trade LO vlad and mihm, and if needed a 2nd round pick.

    i dont see why marbury wont work either, he is a big guard that wants out of NY and they want him out. maybe we can give donnie walsh court side seats to the finals for the exchange.

  55. Paco-

    Karl playing with the Idaho Stampede D-leaguers.

    I second the anti-Lue campaign and tell Mitch not to dial out. Maybe receive some calls, but no dialing out.

  56. Getting Prince would be fantastic (Kobe and Prince as our wing stoppers? Wow) but unrealistic. Dumars doesn’t want to cut salary that much and some of the core players have to stay for the team to be competitive. They’re already going to have a ton of cap space after this season with Iverson’s and Wallace’s contracts coming off the books.

    One realistic option would be Gerald Wallace, and given that Larry Brown is basically running the team (as MJ is at the golf course all the time), and he’s basically giving away players. That said, I’m not sure that Wallace is that much of an upgrade that justifies giving up LO (as versus say Prince).

    Marbury is bad. He hasn’t played for like a year, he’s a cancer in the locker room (we have a young team here; he’s a bad influence even if Kobe and Phil rein him in) and plays crappy defense.

  57. 45,
    The problem with waiting for Farmar is that that approach assumes that he will come back to full strength this season. As we have seen with Mihm, BYnum, and Ariza recently, that is often not the case. If Farmar doesn’t come back on time, then there really isn’t enough time to sign someone and get them up-to-speed on the system.

  58. The biggest flaw the Lakers have is defense. While they can out score teams in most games, they do at times get burned by athletic forwards and guards. Farmar was one of the problems at guard, and the team has actually played better defense since he has been out.

    The small forward spot, when Arisa is on the bench does not play any defense. Walton and Radman can not defend anybody. The end of quarter 2 in the Golden State game highlighted that issue, when both of them were on the court at the same time.

    If the Lakers could land a decent defender/scorer for something like Walton or Radman, Mihm and a draft pick or throwing in anybody else except Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Fish, Arisa or Odon. If the Lakers could make a deal to land a good offensive/defensive swing man by putting Farmar or Sasha in the package I would go for it.

    Forget the Mihm for Lue deal. The Lakers don’t need another guard that can’t defend. Try to put Mihm in a deal for something else, maybe a low draft pick.

  59. jus thinkin about next year December 29, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    I think we should trade lamar odom and a first round draft pick for a higher first round draft pick so that way we still are rebuilding and preparing for when kobe leaves and get another good quality player who can come off the bench and score

  60. 54 – No disrespect, but Marbury is so much more than a “big guard what wants out of NY.” He is a proven loser, a team cancer, an unmotived player who has used sheer talent to stay afloat and entice GMs for so long. Our chemistry is very underrated right now, we do not want Marbury ruining that.

    The point about Prince is a very good one. He’s someone I’d love to see in a Laker uniform. It’s a long shot, but if Detroit really wants cap space, they might take Odom and Farmar for Prince (Kwame would have to be thrown in to make the salaries match).
    Although we get the best player, I think this weakens our bench. It cuts into Ariza’s PT, and we lose our backup PG as well as Mr. Versatile. So a good trade in theory, but it might not play out the way we want even if it did happen.

    lol now I can see why Kurt doesn’t allow trade talk. This just gets out of control. It’s fun once in a while, though.

  61. Unless Mitch pulls something close to the Cook/Evans – Ariza deal, I don’t think there’s a trade I’d like.

    Besides, what are we risking by giving Sasha more minutes?

    I see the need to have an insurance in case of more injury, maybe a body to practice against, but in terms of actual game-use, I don’t see what great evil could come out of giving Vujacic more burn.

  62. What about Mike Penberthy? He must be available.

  63. i feel u snoop, i will also say that if we can get marbury for a pack of bubbletap, i would take it. dont forget before he went to NY he was a top pointguard, not THE top but mentioned with some of the good ones.

    i know we cant get prince, wishful thinking, but it is nice to dream.

    truthfully i like andre miller. he is a pass first guard and would teach farmar how to run a team. we really dont need anybody right now but u cant pass up a deal.

  64. Penberthy, the only pro ever out of Masters College. That’s a great memory.

    My short takes so far: I don’t have the time to go into all the ways I think Marbury, a man who has never played within an offensive system, is a bad fit; If you bring in J-Critt, you are essentially telling Farmar he isn’t going to work out and you are going to let him walk, because you don’t need two backup PGs during your championship window; I probably wouldn’t do it, but I’d have to think about Gerald Wallace, because he can defend the three, he is a better version of Ariza. That said, bring in his big deal and you can’t bring back Odom or Ariza. And you’ll have to find a PG for the MLE, at best.

  65. 43 – Since Kurt put it on the table, let me jump in quick on the move Odom agenda.

    Dead on chris, move LO before the trade deadline for anybody good. I think Hinrich has been injured for most of the season, though.

  66. does anyone here think that sun yue will work out? i know not now and phil seems to never play rookies, but in the future, and how long would we have to wait?

  67. 65 – we don’t have to move Odom. The Gasol-Bynum-Odom rotation works really well for us. Odom is already showing the signs of wanting to stay; he’ll probably take a pay cut to do so after the season if we don’t trade him. Hinrich/Noicini isn’t really that enticing for LO though. Chicago wins out in that type of trade by getting rid of the extra players in their rotation for a need.

    66 – a few years. He’s very, very raw. It could work, it could not. Look at Farmar, who went from D-League to a solid rotation player. Yue is intriguing, but IMO, he should be playing in the D-League to get minutes in. He refused to go though, and he played poorly in the spot minutes Phil gave him against Golden State in the second quarter (nearly had a TO in the first couple seconds he was out there). He needs to put on some muscle for starters. Rail thin.

    As for Gerald Wallace, I agree with Kurt that it would be pricey to do so. Maybe if Charlotte gave up Felton it would be more interesting, but Wallace’s contract is a pretty big prospect to eat. They would have to take Vlad/Luke to ease the salary hit, and signing Ariza would be much more difficult after the year.

  68. I can’t see how anyone can look at Sun Yue game and think he will be an effective pro. He just doesn’t have the atleticism to compete at the NBA level.

  69. 64- Kurt, How about Gerald Wallace for Vlad and a first round pick + Mihm for Critt straight up.I hear you about the farmar issue on a chip window team but consider that fish isn’t getting any younger and those two can compeet for the starting linenup in the future.

  70. The Lakers are in a tough position when it comes to Lamar. The Lakers aren’t going to get anything of his value in return, but they risk losing him for nothing during the summer (Don’t listen to that BS about him taking less, when was the last player to leave significant money on the table). The only guy I think I would trade him for that is close to equal value is Micheal Redd, but I don’t see Milwaukee doing that deal.

  71. I’m perfectly fine with Sasha running the point until Farmar comes back. He wasn’t getting enough deserved run as it was when Farmar was healthy, and the more he plays the quicker he can get his shot back, as evidenced in last night’s performance.

  72. 68 – Milwaukee would have to be on crack to do that, but losing makes GMs do crazy things…and the Brew hasn’t won jack with him.

    That said I hate the lose him for nothing thing around the NBA. Yeah you “lost” the guy, but not you’re paying him anymore either. That means you take that cap space and find another player to help your team. In our case, that’s what 10 million per?

  73. 66 – Will Sun Yue work out? Maybe in a couple of years. Right now the dudes a project, not an NBA player.

  74. 69/70. The only way I think Charlotte gives up Wallace is for Odom. They are not going to take on the long years of Radman, and no way does Larry Brown want him. Totally the wrong kind for player for Brown. That’s why I wouldn’t do it right now, Odom is a key part of a championship team. The Bobcats throwing in Felton gives us another backup PG, so I am neutral there. He is sort of Farmaresqe.

  75. 69 – I wouldn’t trade for Redd. Milwaukee would actually make that deal because it would give them cap space for 2010 (as the chances of Redd declining his player option are nil), but he’s not that enticing of an upgrade. The increased offense doesn’t justify his really poor defense. I’d trade Odom for Carter before Redd.

  76. I like talking about trades … maybe that’s why I love playing NBA 2k9 and trade the hell out of my Lakers team until I have Lebron starting alongside Kobe … but after everything is said and done, I still reset my game and go back to our TRUE Lakers lineup.

    19 (wondahbap),

    Honestly, I haven’t watched Watson play enough to make a very detailed accurate assessment on him…a lot comes from the things I read…and from what I’ve read he is a pretty decent defender (something we could use at that position, don’t you think). Although he does not have an expiring contract this year, his deal is one year shorter than Radman, which means Watson comes off the books next year.

    Again, I’m totally happy with The Machine manning the point and giving Ariza and Odom increased PT … I just hope they can handle it and not force Fish to take on more time than he already has … we need him fresh in the playoffs.

    Oh, and like the argument about Crittenton (whom I love since he is long and knows the triangle since high school … but also can’t be traded again since he was traded to Washington) pushing Farmar for PT…I’m sure Watson will push Farmar better than Yue can.

  77. Kurt it’s your show, but maybe kill the championship team stuff until they actually win a championship with this roster. There are a lot of guys on this team that shouldn’t be sipping the media koolaid. Instead they should be thinking they have a lot to prove to a lot of people including themselves.

    Back on topic, this may be a great time for Kupchak to try to move Odom. There’s a lot of mediocrity in the L right now. Some GMs may buy into the versatile Lamar helping them move up.

  78. I just don’t think you should trade Odom without giving this group a run in the playoffs together. Odom/Gasol at times is our best big man lineup out there.

    72 – That’s exactly my line of thinking in most cases. Gaining cap space is definitely gaining something. However (I might be wrong) but I think our situation is a bit different – Won’t we be over the cap even if Odom walks (especially once we resign Ariza)? In that case, it is a bit like gaining nothing, because we won’t be able to sign free agents over the cap (I can’t rmr offhand what our MLE status is).

  79. Why not just bring up Coby Karl? Let him absorb some PG minutes. He knows the system, and the team. Seemed well liked enough, and costs next to nothing?

    Give Sun some more playing time, 5-8 minutes a game…

    Lots of better options than taking a cog out of the smooth moving machine.

    25-5 is not a problem, and the last 4 have been very nice to see.

  80. That’s my understanding, Snoopy … letting Odom come off the books won’t get us under the cap next year, but it would mean that Dr. Buss and family would take less of a luxury tax hit if he’s not re-signed (which I assume would in turn make it more palatable to re-sign Ariza for something approaching his fair-market value). That’s why I expect we won’t see Lamar traded this season; he’s worth more to us as a member of the rotation, and then as an expiring contract.

    Boy, this trade speculation game is a slippery slope!

    Here’s my take: this team may not have won a Championship yet, but I have to believe that the roster … as-is … represents our absolute best chance to do so. I can say, without reservation, that I love the make-up of this team. Despite what some would have you believe, we have no dead weight anywhere in the line-up (a far cry from even one season ago). Let’s let them have their shot; they’ve earned it.

    I will, however, be interested in seeing what PG options might be out there next season for the MLE …

  81. I really don’t think anything should be done at this point. although this worked on the trade machine.

    TO LA TO BUCKS
    Sessions Odom
    Redd Farmar
    Mbah a Moute

    I’d be ok with it, Sessions is going to be dominant in the near future. A PG of the future, if you will.

    I would even be ok with Sessions for Farmar straight up, although Bucks would have to send us some cash to make it work out

  82. Next year the Lakers salary without odom and without Ariza will be 75M (assuming Kobe does not opt out which he will then resign a new max contract not sure what the difference in salary would be). Thats going to be about 17M over the cap and about 8M over luxury tax. So the Lakers would be saving about 20M by letting Odom walk. Thats a lot of money.

    If they were to resign both Odom and Ariza they would be in luxury tax hell for the next few years. Ariza will probably require at least a full MLE size contract if not larger and Odom says he is willing to sign for less but how much less. Would be be willing to sign for 7M. Those two salaries would put the Lakers at 87M about 20M over the luxury tax. Thats a pretty hefty sum even if the Lakers do win a championship this year.

  83. I don’t like the Lue for Mihm swap. Mihm is a decent backup and is at a very low cost for us. I would monitor Lue’s situation and see if a buyout may be forthcoming.

    As far as Odom, I personally don’t think he is coming back to the Lakers next year. No player in this league has ever taken a significant pay-cut on a multi year deal – which is what Lamar will be looking for as he has stated in the past. I think that his price tag will be too steep for the Lakers organization to pay him. IN addition, he is used as a 6th man – not as a starter – so the Lakers are not going to give him the starter-like cash other teams will offer him. I also think the Lakers are more likely to resign Ariza, who is younger and will be a cheaper acquisition than Odom.

    Because I think he will be gone next summer, I don’t think we are losing anything by trading him – but only if the right trade came along. Unlike others who have suggested Hindrich or Redd, the only trade that makes sense for the Lakers would be one where they would get a similar player, but with a better 3-point shot and better defensive skills – even if it means giving on up on the perceived flexibility Lamar gives this team. In my opinion, the only player out there that would give the Lakers such a return is Shawn Marion.

    But, without getting into why each team would want this swap there is the huge issue that I can’t think of any package that could be put together that would make this trade happen. Short of sacrificing Ariza (which will never happen) Walton and Vlad are the only other trade chips that could work, but their contract lenghts make any trade unappealable to Miami. Therefore, although I don’t disagree that Lamar could be traded, the likelihood of that occurring is as remote as Shaq losing 50 lbs. In short, Lamar is not going anywhere.

  84. 76 – Yeah, I think you’re right about still being over the cap. That’s my bad.

    78 – Sessions may be nice, but I don’t think they should give up on Farmar. It’s a little early. It’s only his 3rd year and he is progressing. I think he’s the PG for the future, he just needs and deserves the time to get there.

    79 – Mike Miller anyone? Can play the 2/3 instead of 3/4, way more consistent shooter, and not prone to disappear.

  85. Marion’s three-point shot is far too overrated. I watch a lot of Miami basketball, and the way Marion plays with them is similar to how he’ll play in our system (more so than his play with Phx). His long-range shot is just awful. The guy has shot 21% from 3 this season. Does anyone realize how awful that is? Much worse than Odom. Everytime he throws up a 3, I see Wade wince. Marion’s points come off chippies in the lane that are created by Wade’s dribble penetration. With Kobe shooting more jumpers and Pau and Bynum inhabiting the paint, Marion would have a much harder time scoring in our system. His defense is good, yes, but he really will hurt us offensively.

    If we have Radman, do we really need Mike Miller? Our issue, IMO, is defense as the SF spot. He’s a more consistent shooter than Vlade, but as far as I know, his defense is at the same level. Miller puts the ball on the floor more, but overall they seem similar for our purposes.

  86. Last week, before Memphis, i cooked up the Mhim-Lue trade on the Trade Machine, and started pumping it…

    You, have convinced me that HE is no the part-time backup PG that we should have.

    But, I do not think that we can expect Fisher to go 40+ perfect mins a night…

    So Lue is not the answer… There HAS to be SOMEONE out there that can give the Lakers mins off the bench at the PG spot…

    Sasha cannot defend the 1…

    Offesnse is not the problem…

  87. Not to mention that the Day i Cooked it up, Lue had just gone 6-7 from the field, and hit 3-pointers…

    I think Lue would be a decent backup PG…
    Something, With Farmar out, The Lakers dont have.

  88. Marion looks like he’s lost a step from his Phoenix heyday since coming to Miami. It seemed like a good idea during the summer because we wrote off Marion’s so-so play in Miami after the trade as being part of the losing malaise in Miami. Giving up Odom looks more and more like a losing proposition in that regard.

    Miller isn’t really an upgrade over Vlad. He shoots better and rebounds better, but he plays bad defense. Same problem with Redd as mentioned before.

    I personally think our best bet is either Wallace or Carter in terms of trading Odom (unless Dumars is willing to trade Prince) as either can be traded for, but I’d like to see both deals a bit sweeter (like Felton from Charlotte for instance) before we pull the trigger.

  89. I think the question is, do you think Dr Buss will pitch his wallet to resign Farmer and Ariza?

    I think we need to dump Radman and Walton to give Ariza and Farmer what they expect (~$5-6M), which is essentially the salaries of Radman and Walton.

    There’s almost no way Dr Buss will want to pay a combined $20M a year (say 5M each for the aforementioned) for arguably 1.5 starters…

    That said, I doubt any team is really looking for a Radman / Walton type player unless, say R.Lewis gets injured or something

  90. kooguy,
    One of the problems with signing a player is that he is then yours until you can trade him – and you have to bring back an equal amount of annual salary to do this.

    We can’t just dump Vlade and Luke – even if we might like to – I don’t. Any trade would bring back an equal salary and, with 2010 on the horizon, no one wants to give out expiring contracts.

    Signing Ariza is the real problem facing the Lakers and they have no reason to make any deals that would make that more difficult. Let Sasha back up Fisher and Kobe. He started out as a PG and he can do well there in the triangle.

  91. How about Iguodala and Dalembert for Odom, RadMan and Sasha?

    In Iguodala we would get someone who can defend the Pierces and LeBrons of the world. and in Dalembert we have a serviceable defensive big man who can back Bynum. And he is an expiring contract I believe.

    Sixers get an expiring contract in Odom and get lots of ball shooting and movement to accomodate for Andre Miller and Elton Brand’s games. If any teams is desperate to make a reshuffle it is the Philadelphia 76ers. And it sure looks like Iguodala will never turn into a Franchise player they hoped.

    Iggy and Kobe on the perimeter would be beastly if we actually played personal defense

  92. Next year is the real crunch year for the Lakers salarywise. If Buss is willing to absorb some real pain next year I think we can shed some cash the following year – after Lebron, Wade, and Bosh sign (my guess is that 2 will resign and 1 will move). Then clubs will come of this ‘got to have space’ and be more willing to absorb some contracts. That is when we would be able to move Vlade (near the end of his stay anyway) and Walton. Besides we will be looking for drafts choices at that time to make up for the ones we lost in the Gasol trade – we will be hurting for them by then is what I mean.

  93. This is off topic, but perhaps relevant with all the talk about ways this team can improve: from this point forward, the Lakers could lose half their games (in other words, go .500) and STILL finish with 51 wins.

  94. KURT – Off topic, but I would love a post on your thoughts over KG’s bullish antics, particularly after the cheap shot KG laid on Vujajcic and on Belinelli this past week Frankly, I can’t understand how the league lets this type of behavior continue. The only end-result is going to be a player getting injured or a starter getting suspended for decking Garnett. I sincerely doubt the same behavior would be tolerated if this was Artest, Rasheed or even Kobe.

    So, is KG getting a free pass or am I just an over-obsessed Laker fan overreacting over a Celtic?

  95. Mamula – At first I looked at that and thought no way, and then I really thought about it, and realized it’s a lot more realistic than it first appears.

    Sixers are desperate for shooting, and Iggy would be a great fit defensively for us. The only problems I see: Philly is fully invested in Iggy for the future, and he fits their system much better than Brand (although if they’ll admit they made a mistake, LO’s expiring contract is great for them to hit “undo”). Second, Iguodala sees himself as a franchise player, I have a hard time seeing him not disrupt the offense here in LA.

    This trade talk is getting crazier by the second, but wow, Iguodala and Kobe and Ariza as our defensive wings, with two 7-footers behind them, is simply awe-inspiring.

  96. Sorry for the double post, but I just saw Manny’s post.

    I second that request for an entry on KG’s antics. Simply criticizing non-basketball antics doesn’t have to be seen as homerism, it can be done in a fair manner.

    I’d simply like someone to examine this question, honestly and objectively:

    Why is “it” seen as “intensity” in Michael Jordan and Kevin Garnett, and selfishness/being a bad teammate in Kobe?

    When Kobe goes off on his teammates after a botched play (as in the Finals), he’s seen as a poor leader. When Garnett makes Davis cry, it’s leadership. When Michael punches Kerr and Purdue in practice, it’s intensity.

    Why this double standard? Is it really all about image? And the way the media perceives these people as individuals?

  97. I think Iguodala would be an ideal addition for us, and trust me he would have loved it so much in LA he would not care about being the top dog.

    I think we need to throw Mihm into the deal so that 76ers have someone to play Center

    And Iggy would have immediately helped our transition offense and defense

  98. *I won’t consider trading Odom unless I get a front court player that can rebound, defend both bigger and smaller players, trap the ball in our SSZ, and push the ball as a ball handler off rebounds and outlet passes. In other words, I only trade Odom for Odom. Show me another player that does what he does AND is willing to come off the bench for us and then I’ll consider it.

    *I miss Critt not only because he’s a good guard for our system (ball handling, passing, capable shooter, size, can create and finish in the lane) but also because he was Bynum’s best friend on the team last year. Bynum always said that it was Critt that told him to dunk everything and that he should try to break peoples arms on the rim if they try to block his dunks. Bynum said that Critt would get him fired up. So, even if it pisses off Farmar, so be it…I think Farmar will play better mad and motivated.

    *If I could really make one trade that made sense for us, it would be this one (or one like it). I don’t care that the guy we’re getting back is washed up. It’s basically a salary dump, with the hope that the washed up guy can regain some of his old form in a game or two and come up big in that one moment. As far as I can tell, we’re doing pretty well even without Farmar and I think that Sasha getting more minutes is good considering that even though he’s a gunner, at least he guns with in the sets of the offense and he’s not always looking to run P&R and create off the dribble. So, as a PG, he at least can handle the ball (reasonably) well and space the floor. And he tries hard on D. We could do worse at PG than just let Sasha play there and then have Kobe play more of a facilitator role with Ariza and Luke in the game.

  99. Well, I thought that I was on the wrong blog when I saw the title of the post. Wow, some 94 comments before mine here, this was a long time coming I guess, topic of trades here at FB&G.

    I think Sasha should continue to get increased PT like he is, it appears the team is doing fine without any major roster changes (trades). We all should consult Warren as to what is affordable in the Lakers future with the players we are commited to now and into the future (like Ariza) rosters. I do think we should stay with Lamar this year to see if this brings us a championship (Pau, LO, Bynum) like we hope it will. Sun Yue is a project, I figured he did not want the D-League when he was in a Laker uniform this year, bad mistake for him I think.

    You do not know what you have, until it is gone.

  100. 94, 96. I think Henry Abbott covered up that topic pretty nicely, from a neutral point of view of course.

    http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-37-45/Kevin-Garnett-s-Big-Mouth.html

    IMO, I think it’s a bad idea to tackle that sort of issue here, since I think it sends somewhat of a negative message about this forum to others.

    That is something I wouldn’t wish on FBG, since this forum is the last bastion of respectability most Laker fans can ever get from anyone at this point, given how many of our kind are notoriously know for being major trolls.

  101. Here is a trade I cooked up a while ago, right after we lost to Indiana…

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=990~1717~2772~739~2200~2760~598~1024~617~1016~2027&teams=11~11~11~13~18~13~18~13~18~11~11&te=&cash=

    It’ll probably never happen, and its tough to justify from Indiana’s perspective, but I think both the Lakers and Knicks do it in a heartbeat.

    Lakers pro’s:
    1.) Dump VladRad and Luke
    2.) Acquire Granger, our starting SF of the future (shoots threes, plays defense, rebounds well).

    Knicks pro’s:
    1.) Dump Curry and Jeffries
    2.) Acquire Odom and Nesterovic, two players born to play D’Antoni style
    3.) Get three expiring contracts in return

    Pacers pro’s
    1.) Dump Jamaal Tinsley’s corpse
    2.) Acquire 4 starter caliber players (and Jeffries), along with some much needed frontcourt size and low post ability.
    3.) Add two white guys, bringing their total number of white starters to 4. Now all they need to do is drag Rik Smits out of retirement and we got ourselves a whitewash.

    As for Tyronn Lue, I say an emphatic NO. Sasha runs the point more than adequately.

  102. 100 – Fair point. It would seem not very FBaG-esque, to be fair.

    98 – I’m not sure I want to give up Vlade for essentially nothing. Vlade gives Phil the option, at least, of altering his lineup in case more spacing is needed. An expensive safety blanket, to be sure, but I can see Vlade altering a game in the playoffs when he’s hot.

    I agree that Odom’s versatility on D is being a bit undersold here. Yes, his offense can disappear in crunch time, but his length and quickness allow him to guard players that Pau simply can’t. Still, there are players that fill similar (not identical, of course, LO is unique) roles, such as G Wallace.

    This is all speculation, but if we do pull off a trade, I say no to any long-term contracts, even if they come with a Wallace or Iguodala. You never know when a player just won’t fit and produce as expected, and cap-crippling contracts destroy franchises. Flexibility is key, especially when we’re already primed to make a deep playoff run with no change.

  103. Zephid
    Odom, Vlad, and Walton for Granger..really??

  104. Assuming we buy out Tinsley immediately and let Malik Rose rot on the bench then expire, I would do the deal. Yes, losing Odom hurts, but have you seen Granger? He can shoot threes, drive to the hole, play defense, and he makes less than Odom will when he signs elsewhere. I know Odom has said he wants to retire a Laker, but he’d have to leave at least 7 mil per year on the table. I can easily see him signing a max contract for 16MM per with another team, whereas the only way the Lakers can take him back is if he takes sizeably less than he makes now, which would be around 7-8 mil. I just don’t see it happening.

    Not only do we get back an all-start caliber SF who fits our system perfectly, but we also shed both Walton and Radmanovic’s contracts. Sure we take Jamaal Tinsley’s contract to the face, but that is a small price to pay for the cap flexibility, as well as clearing up the logjam at SF.

    Plus, I am fully confident that Josh Powell will step up and be able to solidly backup the PF position, so I think losing Lamar will not hurt as much as it could. Additionally, I am a huge Granger fan, after watching him pound us as well as dropping 40 points twice this season, I think the only reason the Lakers would not make the trade is if they don’t want to touch the team’s chemistry. Otherwise, I feel it’s a no-brainer, financially and basketball-wise.

  105. 5 team blockbuster:

    LA, Toronto, Minny, Heat, Warriors

    Warriors:
    Give: Maggette, Marcus Williams
    Get: Vlad, Bargnani
    For: Trim a crowded backcourt and get some sweet-shooting bigs. 3pt heaven!

    Heat:
    Give: Cook, Marion
    Get: Odom, Walton, McCants, 1st Round Pick (Toronto)
    For: They’ve always coveted Odom

    Minny:
    Give: Miller, Jason Collins, Foye, McCants, Cardinal
    Get: Marion, Farmar, A Parker, 1st round pick (LA)
    For: Get salary cap flexibility for next year (shave 20$M off the books)

    Toronto:
    Give: O’Neal, Parker, Bargnani, 1st round pick
    Get: Maggette, Mihm, Jason Collins, Marcus WIlliams, Cardinal
    For: Salary cap flexibility, PG depth

    LA:
    Give: Odom, Farmar, Vlad, Walton, Mihm, 1st round pick
    Get: O’Neal, Miller, Foye, Cook
    For: Salary cap flexibility, better bench.

    Win-win??

  106. 96. Except for not being a ball handler, Anderson Varejao seems to fit the bill. He’s a hustling big who more than holds his on the perimeter (hedging screens and on big to small switches) and he already comes off the bench for a contender. Varejao’s not a scorer but he’d make a hell of a supersub to partner with Gasol or Bynum. He doesn’t block shots but his defense prowess would be valuable to any team, especially come playoff time. If his agent, Dan Fegan, holds a grudge against the Cavs –for the bitter contract negotiations and holdout debacle–he may force them to trade him or lose him as a FA for nothing. Varejao would not give the Lakers the versatility and playmaking that LO does but he’s the one guy that would solidify the frontline with another starter-quality big that would make losing Lamar less of a risk. Also, Verajao makes less than $6mil a year and might be had for something closer to the MLE. At any rate, Varejao would give the Lakers another big to throw at the Milsaps, Boozers, Rasheeds and even KGs of the world.

  107. In my opinion the only player who comes close to doing what Odom can is Kirilenko. Good passer, great help defender, solid man defender, but not that great of a long range shooter either. Also, I’m not sure he can be had.

    On the fantasy trade front, Odom for Rashard Lewis could make sense but his contract is even worse. I think Turkoglu would fit well really on the Lakers but wouldn’t warrant giving up Odom and couldn’t be had for a combination of Radman/Walton/Mihm. Plus he would have to concede his game winner opportunities to Kobe.

  108. The Lakers really have only 2 players that they might be willing to trade: VladRad and Lamar–with Mihm (or possibly Farmar) to throw in to make a deal. The questions are: who wants them, and what can we get in return?

    I’ve been lurking at a number of sites, looking for interest, and, though I believe that both are tradeable–I have not uncovered any serious interest in either as “players.”

    One way or another, Lamar IMO is headed for a salary dump. The question is when.

    If the Lakers so chose, they could trade Lamar to the Grizz, much like the Nuggets traded Camby to the Clippers. Since it would drop the Lakers below the cap penalty this year, it would save the Lakers approximately $20 million (most of his salary + the penalty) and provide resources for the signing of Ariza for sure next year.

    Meanwhile, if everyone remains healthy, a salary dump might have the same benefits as the Camby trade for Denver. The experiments with both Bynum and Ariza have already been successful, making Odom’s time less necessary (and possibly a source of friction) as the season progresses. Pau could (and possibly should) play power forward exclusively, and Bynum may soon be on the court to close out the game. With Odom gone, Powell would get more backup minutes behind Gasol, and Mihm would get backup minutes behind Bynum–making them better prepared for playoff assignments.

    Considering that injuries may happen to bigs, and team chemistry seems great, it may be safer to dump Odom’s salary by simply not resigning him for next year.

    VladRad could be traded for a veteran at another position, including a PG. If it were a quality veteran PG, Farmar might be made a part of the deal.

    Signing a free agent further exacerbates salary cap woes and gives the Lakers fewer options toward the end of the season.

    There are deals that could be made–but they won’t come easy.

  109. Why everybody underestimate Odom?
    Why so hurry to trade him?

    People, forget about messing with this team’s core players. This is a championship-ready team. The last thing it needs is a personal revolution.

    That said the offseason will be interesting. Odom and Ariza – I’d love to see both of them stay, but it could be difficult. Lakers will be in the luxury tax so even if Odom takes $10M it would costs Buss $20M. Odom isn’t a $20M player. So getting rid of Radmanovic is essential. I was hoping Lakers will terminate his contract after “a patch of ice”-gate. Frankly I don’t know how Kupchak could give Radmanovic full MLE. Radmanovic never was that good.

  110. 96) Snoopy,
    “Why this double standard? Is it really all about image? And the way the media perceives these people as individuals?”

    It’s not logical. A lot of the media can’t get past their view of Kobe waving off Karl Malone’s screen that first All-Star game. Combine that with media-darling Shaq’s public feelings about Kobe, and throw in Colorado (no matter what actually happened there) as the icing on the cake.

    MJ came out of Dean Smith’s program, so he is obviously a perfect teammate, and Garnett played hard for so long for poor teams, that he is given the benefit of the doubt.

  111. Farmar is signed for next season. Lakers executed the team option.

    Ariza has a player option to opt out next season. Count on it. He will request mid-level.

    The ? mark. Will Kobe be unselfish enough to opt out this summer and take an extension for less money, thus freeing up cap space to keep this team together?

    Next season’s gones:
    Mihm

    Likely:
    Odom

    Re-signed:
    Josh Powell (excellent rebounder and good mid-range game)

  112. Zephid wins the award for best trade justification, using “gets to add 2 white guys” as a positive for Indiana losing Granger

  113. Zephid,

    Somewhere, an Indiana fan is laughing at that trade. No way Indiana trades a young guy the front office AND fans love for a collection of random parts from other teams for absolutely no reason. Dumping Jammal Tinsley isn’t that important.

  114. No way Kobe takes less money. He is one of the top 3 best basketball players on the planet, and he knows that he deserves to be paid as such. He will opt out, and then sign a new max contract to finish his career on.

    Odom has said that he would be willing to take a pay cut to stay in LA. And I think he means it right now, but when faced with losing millions of dollars I would be very surprised if he actually did it.

  115. 101 – Granger is basically the Pacers’ franchise player at this point. You’d have to trade Gasol or Kobe to get him.

    IMO, the only trade that increasingly seems beneficial at this point is dumping Vlad. As mentioned there’s not a whole lot of teams that will take his contract, and of those teams, there’s not a whole lot we could get in return. Philly needs 3-point shooting, but can’t offer us anything that we would consider valuable (unless they’re willing to trade Louis Williams, which is highly unlikely). Golden State could probably take Vlad, but the most we’d get is a much of rookies (though getting Randolph is a fairly enticing prospect).

  116. I was thinking about the long term solution at PG. There is a good PG, who I think fits the triangle well; Heinrich. He can handle, shoot, and defend. The problem is, besides being injured, he has a long contract. Though it goes down in value instead of up like most contracts do. Don’t think you could get him this year, but perhaps after the season. But this would mean that the Lakers were giving up on Farmar as the PG for the future. Not sure if they are ready to do that yet.

  117. yawwwwn, lets talk something else.

  118. If Farmar is not the solution then the time to act is this summer, not now. If the Lakers act now they risk the chemistry that is making the team a title contender. While we fans may want our answers as soon as possible, the team – fortunately – does not operate under the same demands. Sasha may work out well and, if he does, the team will be that much stronger and that much more flexible next summer.

  119. east and west all-star starters?

  120. I can see why Kurt asked for people to post trade scenarios – most of what I read here is absurd. 1) who would want Radmanovic? 2) you can’t trade Odom without getting a big in return, and 3) the most desirable type of player for the Lakers, in my opinion, is a grizzled veteran who can put in spot minutes, provide leadership and toughness. I don’t think the Lakers could find PT for Stackhouse, as proposed in comment 98, but I think the idea is good.

    The only organization crazy enough to take on Radmanovic might by the Knicks. D’Antoni’s system might make Vlad’s game look respectable again, but I don’t see anything there worth having. WTF is Malik Rose doing these days? A veteran hustle player like him might be good for these young Lakers, but his lack of PT makes me think he is done.

    Also, economic realities are going to really set in by summer. Odom may not play for the Lakers after this season, but no matter where he plays he won’t get a pay raise. The best idea I’ve read here is the prospect of Kobe opting out and taking a paycut so the Lakers have some cap flexibility. No, I don’t suspect he is likely to do so, but with the Lakers’ cap situation, it might be the best option for them to retain personnel or attract quality teammates.

  121. New post up, breaking down Odom.

  122. Since the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol, Lamar’s business value has, unfortunately for him, far surpassed his athletic value. He’s a “big bucks expiring contract” this year–both to the Lakers and to other teams in the league.

    The Lakers big money commitment is to Kobe and Pau, and Laker future big money commitment has already been made to Bynum. Even though they have made long term commitments to Walton and VladRad, they very much want to resign Trevor. They’ve signed Sasha long term in the back court, and Fisher is a key veteran. Just keeping all of these players next year would use up Lamar’s expiring salary–and the Lakers are already 10 million over the cap.

    If the Lakers don’t do a salary dump this year for Lamar, they simply can’t afford him next year unless they are willing to start eliminating a number of other players. Ariza and Mihm, the only other expiring contracts, are a chump change down payment on players the Lakers would give up in exchange for a serious Odom salary next year.

    Trades for VladRad or Walton do little or nothing to address this business problem, since it just amounts to trading salaries.

    It is almost impossible to imagine Lamar with the Lakers next year. It makes sense to continue reducing his playing role/time this year as the season progresses in favor of Trevor, Bynum, and others–and that is not good for Lamar’s future in the NBA.

  123. Ideally I’d favor only making minor adjustments at the end of the bench. The team as presently constructed has a strong chance at the title and has the highest ceiling of any team in the league. There is no reason with repsect to this year that the Lakers should feel forced to make a trade. Consistency and chemistry are too often overlooked at key factors in a team’s success.

    However, the Lakers must also position themselves for title runs over the next three or four years. And Lamar is not coming back. I appreciate his intentions when he states he’d take less money, but he’ll also be turning down a starting position, more playing time and the certainty of finishing games. As this year progresses and Bynum finishes more games, Lamar will most likely play the good teammate and accept his role but also increasingly look ahead to other options during the summer. Lamar will not turn down a deal with more money, playing time and prominence (e.g., what if New York offered him even the same money as the Lakers but a starting position and a chance to move home…). With this possibility in mind, and the Lakers championship window open for the next three or four years, the Lakers should be at least seriously considering major trades involving Odom. But…
    The only major deal that makes sense is Odom for Wallace and Felton. The Lakers may be forced to include Farmar, but it would be worth it. The Lakers would get a tough, young, pass first point guard and a versatile forward both with reasonable contracts. The Bobcats are willing to move both these players and would probably accept significant cap space and a young backup point guard. I love Lamar and would be pained to see him leave at any time. But Wallace provides defense, rebounding, athleticism, some inside scoring and constant energy. It fills in many of the gaps left by the loss of Odom and also protects the Lakers if they lose Ariza (in terms of playing time, trading Ariza, Odom and Farmar for Wallace, Powell and Felton makes reasonable sense to me). Also Felton has proven himself as a borderline all star point guard whose passing would fit well within the triangle and whose defense is superior to Farmar’s, and whose contract runs longer (if Farmar asks for starter money, could we/would we keep him?). The Lakers would have a championship nucleus intact and under contract for the length of their current championship window.

  124. If we can get both Felton and Wallace from Charlotte for Odom, then we’d be hard-pressed not to take it. That’s two borderline all-stars for a player we’re certainly not going to have next year. The thing is also that with the team under Larry Brown’s stewardship, he’d probably do it (as Larry loves to trade his whole roster).

  125. Along the same thoughts of binging JCritt back from Washington why could we simply call-up say Joe Crawford from the D-L rather than giving up one of our bigs?

  126. Lamar Odom for Baron Davis it makes sense because there is friction between Davis and Dunlevy so the clippers would get out of the contract and get cap releif and the Lakers would get Al Star pg .