Lakers Moves And Draft Day Fun

Kurt —  June 25, 2009

Oklahoma-UNC
We all knew two things: 1) The player selected at 29 by the Lakers was not going to see any meaningful court time on a stacked Lakers roster; 2) The Lakers needed money to resign Trevor Ariza and Lamar Odom.

So the deal that the Lakers apparently struck with the Knicks makes sense. ED Note: Okay, I’ve got confirmation on this now from several sources:

The Lakers cannot trade this pick, only the right to the pick once it is made. So on the dias tonight they will say “The Lakers select X” but said player will instantly be traded for cash once the selection is made. That deal just cannot be executed until after the pick is made. NBA rules prohibit the trading or selling of first round picks in consecutive years, and the Lakers 2008 and 2010 first rounders belong to Memphis in the Gasol deal.

And if that number is right and the Lakers really get $3 million for that pick, that is a great deal by Kupchak. Combine that with the money saved not having to pay a first rounder and it is more than $4 million in savings, which covers a lot of what Ariza will get next year.

And I’m good with this. The Lakers need the cash more than a Euro player to stash away for a couple years. And I expect them to take at least one of those guys in the second round anyway.

Now, a few final thoughts heading into tonight.

• My short and sweet take on the Shaq to Cleveland trade: Cleveland is a desperate team and this is a desperation move, but it’s not a bad one. Now you will have Shaq taking up Big Ben Wallace’s useless minutes, and that will be an improvement. He will split time with Big Z (I bet 26 for Shaq, 22 for Z, in that range) so Cleveland gets some frontcourt depth. Shaq has defended Howard well in the past. Shaq can still score in the paint pretty efficiently. I think this makes them better if everything goes right.

But there are 423,856 ways this could go wrong. Shaq brings a lot of ego to Cleveland. He and Big Z are not exactly known for staying healthy. And this is just one piece of what Cleveland has to do — they shot 32% from three against Orlando and Shaq makes it easier to just pack the paint on Cleveland and dare them to beat you with the jumper. They still need some guys on the wing to compete with the Lakers and probably a healthy Orlando or Boston. And I have serious questions if Mike Brown is the coach that can pull it all together. Still, this is a step forward for them.

• I don’t put much stock in these, especially with all the trades we will likely see tonight, but here are the Final results from some top mock drafts regarding the Lakers:

DraftExpress: Nick Calathes 6-5 PG/SG, Florida and Greece (Jon Brockman 6-7 PF Washington; and Lester Hudson 6-3 PG/SG Tenn. Martin in the second round)

Chad Ford, ESPN: Toney Douglas, 6-2 SG, Florida State. (Rodrigue Beaubois, PG, France; and Dante Cunningham, F, Villanova in the second round)

NBAdraft.net: Toney Douglas, 6-2 SG, Florida State (then traded to Knicks). (Darren Collison 6-1 PG UCLA; and Courtney Fells, 6-6 SG NC State in the second round).

• I like Top Chef Masters, but it lacks the drama of the regular Top Chef. The problem is these chefs, while great, have made it to the top. And they all like and respect one another. So if they fall short they still publicize and get a little money for a favorite charity, then go back home to being a rock-star, James Beard Award chef. In the regular Top Chef, these people are cooking for their careers, that gives real drama to it. Still, with no hoops on it’s a fun summer watch.

• Top Chef Masters has about all the drama of the #1 pick in the draft, basically. But what the Clippers do the rest of the summer will be much more interesting.

• Now a little technical site stuff. This post will be up and going through the draft if you want to make comments here and we can discuss the trades and moves here. Later, closer to the draft, I will post the TrueHoop Network Chat up, which you can read/participate in as you choose, or just keep the comments flowing here.

At some point during the draft when we have Lakers news to discuss, I’ll start a new thread where we can break down what they and everyone else did.

Kurt

Posts

163 responses to Lakers Moves And Draft Day Fun

  1. We are back to regular rules, only discussing trades that happened or are being reported as happening by a reputable source. There will still be plenty to talk about within those guidelines today.

  2. Is there any truth to the McGrady/Brooks for Amare/Barbosa rumors? Its seems like an odd trade for both teams.

    Amare seems like a prima dona to me and I don’t know how well he would work with Yao. He complained that Shaq was getting too much attention on offense and I could see the same thing happening if such a trade were to happen. Also I thought Brooks played really well in the playoffs, why trade him when he is just developing? Barbosa is not a PG, he is a shooting guard in a PG body. If people though Yao did not get enough touches before think about it with Barbosa and Amare on the team.

    And are the Suns hurting that badly financially that they would trade two players away for basically nothing?

  3. Why would the knicks make this deal? What do they gain? Is there a player dropping that far that is worth the extra 3 million? Sorry for my ignorance.

  4. Two questions/thoughts on the proposed Lakers roster changes; both are asked in total seriousness, no sarcasm implied.

    A) Does anyone believe that Adam Morrison offers any potential as a reclamation project for Phil Jackson and the staff?

    In the past, this coaching group has been able to identify players who’ve struggled elsewhere and make them contributors, some more than others, by focusing on what the play can do and creating a role to fit those skills. Does anyone see any likelihood of that with Morrison? (I never watch college basketball and seldom saw him with the Bobcats, so I can’t form a fair conclusion of his potential or ability at the NBA level.)

    B) A little comparison, if only as food for thought… (all stats shown are regular season)

    Point Guard A played a total of 181 games over his first three NBA seasons, starting only 51 times in that span. He played for a perennial playoff contender, averaging 3.3, 9.1 and 7.9 points per game in those seasons (or 6.7 points per game if averaged over his first three years). His assists were 2.1, 3.4 and 5.5 per season in that span (3.6 APG average over first three years in the league.)

    Point Guard B played 212 games in his first three NBA seasons, starting only 50, also for a perennial playoff contender. His first three season’s scoring averages were 3.9, 5.8 and 5.9 (Or 5.2 ppg career average after three seasons). His assists averaged 1.5, 4.1 and 3.9, or less than 3.2 assists per game over his first three seasons.

    Point Guard C played in 219 games in his first three pro seasons, starting only two for a perennial playoff contender. His first three season’s scoring averages were 4.4, 9.1 and 6.4 points per game (6.6 ppg career average). His seasonal assist averages were 1.9, 2.7 and 2.4 (three-season average of 2.4).

    Once again,: Point Guard A averaged 6.7 ppg and 3.6 apg in his first three seasons.

    Point Guard B averaged 5.2 ppg and 3.6 apg.

    Point Guard C averaged 6.6 and 2.4.

    Who was the best? Tough to say, since the stats were all somewhat similar.

    A was Steve Nash. B was Derek Fisher. And C was Jordan Farmar, who left college early and entered the league at younger age than the other two shown here.

    Not to say Farmar has the makings of a future MVP or All-Star, but the point is to show that it takes time for many good to very good lead guards to develop.

    The Chris Pauls or Derrick Roses — PGs who set the league on fire right away — are the exception, not the rule. I still believe Farmar can be a quality player in the NBA, hopefully not in another team’s uniform.

  5. Sandwich Artist June 25, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Just when we thought we were done hearing about Shaq vs. Kobe, this happens. Kobe can not allow Shaq to win a championship at his expense. Looks like he’s found some motivation for next year.

  6. Too bad about Nick, he would have been a nice piece 2-3 years from now. However we need cash to lock up LO/TA and that’s more important than anything else we could be doing with that pick.

    Great Job MK!

  7. 2. Ryan. Suns owner Sarver basically has destroyed his team to save a few bucks by selling draft picks, not resigning young guys, and then pushing the Shaq trade. It is utterly plausible that they would dump their talent in a big reboot and take McGrady’s shell and his expiring contract. Brooks and Landry are good young role players too.

    If I’m HOU, I do this deal in a second. Yao’s foot is not healing and they have NO big men besides Scola who isn’t that big.

    Amare/Scola/Battier/Artest-Barbosa/Lowry is a pretty good lineup. Basically the team that was kicking the crap out of sloppy-Lakers plus Amare.

    Yao/Amare/Battier/Artest-Barbosa/Lowry is a potentially terrifying lineup, depending on how they blend and how much Lowry’s shot improves.

    The only downside is that Amare might opt out, but then you have his cap space for 2010; or that there’s no cap for 2010. But who cares if you have a great team and don’t lose a year of Yao’s prime before his lower body finally gives out for good…

  8. ESPN reporting that Orlando may be trading for Vince Carter by giving up Alston, Lee, and Battie. While Orlando wants to give up Alston, giving up a promising young guard like Lee makes little sense, especially when adding Carter’s salary to Lewis’ gargantuan contract as well as Dwight’s and Jameer’s extension probably makes them unable to sign Turk unless they want to burn in luxury tax hell.

  9. PeanutButterSpread June 25, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Yikes – Vince Carter to the Magic:

    The New Jersey Nets are in advanced discussions to send Vince Carter(notes) to the Orlando Magic for Rafer Alston(notes), Tony Battie(notes) and Courtney Lee(notes), a source with knowledge of the negotiations told Yahoo! Sports.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlYTLHeRuc_ZtrbNJBzEUW28vLYF?slug=aw-cartertrade062509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

  10. Chad Ford thinks the Magic will acquire VC for Alston, Battie, and Courtney Lee by the end of the day.

  11. 3, VoR

    Probably seems that since they have an endless supply of cash, they feel they could afford to take a flyer on a sleeper.

  12. Is every team going off their rocker today? Vince Carter for Alston, Lee, and Battie? I don’t know how the Magic can suddenly afford VC, Rashard, Dwight, and Jameer. I’m not even sure Carter is that big an upgrade than Hedo and all the little things that he does.

  13. j.d. Hastings June 25, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    Salvaged from the last post:

    Shaq trade positives:

    -They gave up nothing to get him.

    -They now have a player who can score in the post. (or they can play their shooting big man)

    -If he demands any double teams that is good for Lebron and all their shooters

    -A big body who apparently doesn’t like the idea of Dwight Howard dominating.

    -In theory someone with championship experience

    Negatives:
    -I don’t hink Coach Brown is terrible, he’s just all about Defense, like JVG. When he tries to get shaq to defend the p/r he’s not going to be happy (if this is the real reason they lost to Orlando, watch out)

    -What you get from Shaq often depends on the strength of the coach’s personality. If Shaq doesn’t respect the coach, you usually have problems. Brown is very much in the mold of the coaches Shaq doesn’t respect.

    -Despite his primary role on 3 title teams, Shaq is too immature to provide the championship experience role of a Ron Harper or Derek Fisher. In fact he may damage their chemistry and force Lebron to police SHAQ more often is Shaq does have issues with Brown.

    -Does shaq in the lane attract more defenders, closing off Lebron’s routes to the rim? Shaq + Verejao = 2 big men with no real range, so you can have 2 defenders in the lane waiting always, right?

    -How does Cleveland guard Pau and Odom? If Cleveland tries to take advantage of Shaq against Pau, that just takes the ball out of Lebron’s hands, so I’m cool with that. And if Shaq can’t run back on D, that’ll open things for us even more. And this isn’t even asking for anything from Bynum.

    In the end, the negatives are based on possibilities and ifs, while the positives are set if they get a healthy (and motivated) shaq. So I think its a net plus for them, unless it ruined their chances to get someone even better. The fact is they weren’t far from winning it all last year, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they won it all this year. Whether Shaq would be the difference will be seen during the games.

    But so much more of Cleveland’s fate could be decided by:
    -KG’s ability to return to form
    -Whether the Celtics trade Rondo and/or Ray Ray
    -Orlando’s ability to keep Trukoglu (or replace him with Vince Carter?), get Jameer back to all star form, and Dwight to continue developing
    -Los Angeles keeping it’s Free Agents and staying hungry, healthy and interested.

    IF those 3 teams come back weaker next season, the Cavs may not have even needed Shaq…

  14. 11. Yes, but it’s crazy to spend $3M on such a low pick with no guarantee that your player will be there.

    *PLUS* they give us a 2011 second-round pick. We love those second-round picks for stashing purposes.

    I don’t understand the move at all. I can’t wait to see what they do with pick 29.

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers-nba-draft26-2009jun26,0,4528978.story

  15. Re: the Shaq trade. As everyone pointed out, there are a lot positive for Cavs, but one thing I remember reading was that how amazing the Suns’ medical staff is. Working with Nash with his back problems, allowing G. Hill to play a full season for the first time in X years, even Shaq playing at an All-Star level last year. I think the Shaq is going to have health issues again next year, but that’s just my two cents.

  16. The one deal that has some rumors floating around is Kirk Hinrich going to Portland, and that’s the one deal I don’t want to happen. Not so much that I fear that potential Blazers team, but I don’t want the people from Portland to have an excuse to be happy.

  17. Argh, I know it’s not my money so it’s easy to say, but I hate this. I had my schedule set, looking forward to seeing who would fall to us at 29, and as a Lakers fan so much suspense just went right out of the draft.

    Is this merely a verbal agreement or a done deal? So if a complete stud magically falls to us, Kupchak will have to trade the rights to the player no matter what?

    Shoot. I hate this. This is probably an unfair comparison, but my mind goes to the Suns, who (though absolutely stacked with talent) sold some picks that could have absolutely put them over the top or kept them in contention for the future. If Calathes turns into a stud a few years from now, this will come back to haunt us.

    Oh well. At least it increases the chances of bringing back Lamar and Ariza. Try to stay positive, I guess.

    Now I’m just hoping Kupchak brings in Claver. And Gasol was the 58th pick, I think, so maybe Mitch can work some magic at 59.

  18. Coffee is For Closers June 25, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Put me in the camp where i think this hurts more than helps cleveland. They got bested by the magic, largely due to their inability to defend PNR, and they just brought in perhaps the worst center in the league at defending it. I agree with Hastings above – Shaq is going to clog the offensive lanes for cavs which doesn’t help lebron.

    My only question, after shaq comes off the books next year, how much of his $20M salary do the cavs have to spend on free agents, irrespective of where they are salary cap wise? I know you used to be able to spend 1/2 of whatever salary came off even if you were over the cap limit. Don’t know if that rule is still in place.

    And Kurt, I really liked Top Chef Masters last night. The french chef was a riot. Hello? Dude tried to out-cook Rick Bayless doing mexican food, and then acted shocked when he lost. So arrogant. So french.

  19. U.S. and Brazil in the final on Sunday, should be a good one even for non-soccer/football fans like me.

  20. Wow Jim Rome just tried to rap down Shaq. This should never happen again.

  21. #17,

    I think the main difference between the Suns’ selling their picks and the Lakers is that the Suns’ had very little depth on their team while the Lakers had a strong enough bench to win a championship. The Suns could (and should) have drafted to fortify their bench but decided not to in order to save money. The Lakers don’t need to add a rookie at this time that will not be playing this year (and possibly next year) while also limiting their ability to re-sign Shannon, Ariza, and LO.

  22. As for VC to Magic… seems like a good deal for Alston/Lee/Battie. But not sure it’s an upgrade for them against the Lakers. VC would take the place of Pietrus/Lee and I think Kobe will do better against VC.

    If the Magic lose Hedo, I am not sure VC can replace Hedo’s production, and I don’t see VC surpassing it.

  23. The Dude Abides June 25, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    re Carter to Orlando:
    The Magic could very well still bring back Hedo, as owner Rich DeVos is very wealthy. He might just decide that he’s got a three or four-year window to get an NBA championship, so he’ll spend the extra dough. If they keep lasting late in the playoffs, the extra revenue could partially offset the extra salary plus luxury tax. And, DeVos could just decide to give less money to political causes if money becomes more of an issue.

  24. PeanutButterSpread June 25, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    No one cares about the VINCE CARTER trade to Orlando?! Opinions?!

    Does this mean Orlando isn’t planning to keep Hedo?

    And if they are, what’s their salary situation going to be like to keep Howard, Lewis, VC, AND Hedo?

  25. I personally think that Vince is a big time upgrade over Turkoglu. With Nelson back that team is a monster, with or without Turkoglu.

  26. Coffee is For Closers June 25, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    By the way, Shaq is going to be 38 come next year’s playoffs. Yikes. Does he get to bring the Phoenix medical staff with him that has kept him reasonably healthy the last 2 years?

    And the Suns, I still intensely dislike them, but at least admired their SSOL offense. Now, what a gawd awful roster. I know they don’t want to trade Nash because he’s the only reason people still come, but c’mon, they need to trade him now while he’s got some value. Not to mention, I believe he can walk after this comming season. Sarver is giving the Donald a run for his money.

  27. #24

    The Magics’ owner must have deep pockets. Just did a quick calculation and if they do get Vince Carter and resign Hedu, they’ll have a payroll of $75M pre-tax for only 8 players. If you assume they sign 5 more scrubs, they’ll have to pay $89M post-tax (if they sign someone for the MLE, then it’s $97M). That’s about $28M more than what they paid this year.

  28. j.d. Hastings June 25, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    VC to Orlando means theyre cutting Hedo go, right? If you start Nelson, VC, Hedo, Lewis and Dwight, ALL those guys expect 10+ shots per game. And VC and Lewis are both willing to do nothing if they don’t get the rock. If Hedo leaves, the issue isn’t mitigated that much. VC does bring other things to the table, but it still feels a lot like filling a square hole with Vince Carter.

  29. If the Knicks were willing to pay $3 million for a late 1st Round pick, then I think that means they must’ve already worked out a deal to trade whoever is picked. That seems a bit much to pay for #29.

    Say Memphis will take who the Knicks want, then swap the pick with the Knicks pick, and then the Lakers will draft who Memphis wants, and the Knocks also send it to the Grizzlies.

    Is this allowed Kurt?

  30. Hedo is let go if this VC trade goes down. No way Orlando is that rich or stupid.

  31. Sorry for the triple post,

    Apricot,

    VC does better against Kobe than you think. Check the game logs.

  32. No other Euro player intrigues me besides Victor Claver. Claver won’t be around when the Lakers pick so I’m hoping for Danny Green, Dajuan Summers, Derrick Brown, or Dionte Christmas.

  33. PeanutButterSpread June 25, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    With the VC trade, the question is, who is going to get Hedo?

  34. First, wondahbap is right, VC is a sign that Hedo is gone. I think Hedo is seriously overestimating his worth on the open market in this economy (rumor is he wants $11 mil a year for four years).

    30. I believe that is legal, yes. But there are so many loopy previsions that I could be wrong, I can research it later.

  35. im not sure what to make of the new jersey/orlando trade.

    i dont see the magic being better with carter if they lose hedo and im not sold on it working out with hedo and carter. carter is gonna take at least 15 shots a game, but when you have shooters like rashard and hedo and dwight in the middle, you want those 3 getting as many shots as possible.

  36. Kurt,

    I meant was that scenario allowed for discussion.

  37. does this now mean that the major suitors for Hedo are Portland and maybe Detroit?

  38. 38. Sorry, slow today. Sure.

    And I’ve heard Portland is the Hedo frontrunner. Take that with a grain of salt.

  39. My money is on Detroit getting Hedo. Just a gut instinct, although I don’t see how he’d fit alongside Tayshaun.

    This pretty much cements Hedo’s gone, the team was barely willing to pay the tax to retain him, no way they go even deeper to bring back both.

    VC and Hedo are different players. Time will tell which is a better fit. Carter brings that element they never had, a player who can create his own shot when the offense is dying and spark an offensive run on his own. He can’t replace Hedo’s point-forward role, but if Nelson’s healthy, perhaps it’s not as big an issue. He does have the tools to be a ball-handler, but no way he runs the screen roll to the effectiveness that Hedo used to. But I guess his other production could offset that.

    My feeling is a coach like SVG will adapt his offense to best suit his personnel. We may see less PnR but more iso sets; I think he’ll make the most of whoever he has to put on the floor.

  40. Does this also mean that they won’t go after LO?
    Hedo would probably go where the money is, Lamar I’m not so sure, he wants to stay here

  41. Is it me or does it seem like all the contenders except the Lakers and Spurs are suddenly panicking. Basically making a change for change sake with lots of risk vs reward.

  42. Here’s another sub=plot to the VC trade.

    NJ finally got rid of VC’s contract. Opening up money to make a run LBJ and possibly another free agent. They also promise to be in Brooklyn by fall 2011.

    They will have some nice talent with Harris, Lopez, and Lee. Let’s see if Yi gets better.

  43. Wow, VC to Orlando. I agree with Reed, the Magic just got pretty scary.

    *VC is from FLA, so you know he’s happy.

    *VC is a guy that can get his own shot (good or bad) pretty much whenever he wants – which was a real weakness for Orlando with or without Nelson.

    *This gives Orlando a window of contention for the rest of VC’s contract without having to commit to Hedo (whose contract would have run longer and tied them up, cap wise, for several more years).

    *VC will become an expiring contract in the summer of 2011 (team option for 2011/12 season) and could be used as trade bait that season if things aren’t working.

    Lots of upside for Orlando here. I know that Otis Smith can be an easy target, but he does seem to make deals that end up helping his team. We’ll see if this one really does help, but on the surface it looks good for Orlando right now.

  44. Lopez is a stud. NJ could be a promising destination in 2010, especially if they can pick up a solid player at #11.

    So draft night is here, anyone want to finalize their verdict on Hansborough? I hated his game for years but I finally changed about a year ago. I’m a firm believer in work ethic and hard-nosed play, I just think those types of guys always find homes in the NBA. It may take him some time to find the right situation, but I see him become a solid role player, a solid bench player on a good team. Much better than Madsen, in other words.

  45. Coffee is For Closers June 25, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Snoopy, thats not a very high bar for a college play of the year, but I tend to agree. I don’t think he brings an atheltice enough skill set to be a starter on a contending team, but i think he could be a good bench player.

    I don’t think there’s any way for the Knicks to trade up, but would love to see either Curry or Rubio play in the D’Antoni system.

  46. j.d. Hastings June 25, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    from espn:

    Brown won’t rush decision
    Kwame Brown | Pistons
    Kwame Brown has until Tuesday to exercise his $4M player option and his agent, Mark Bartelstein, said his client has yet to make a decision.
    “We have until the 30th, and we’re going to take our time before deciding,” Bartelstein told Mlive.com.

    “It’s nothing against Detroit. Kwame enjoys it there. We felt as the season went on, he gained more and more trust from (coach) Michael Curry. But we’re just going to try and get a feel for exactly what’s the best situation for Kwame, and then make a decision.”

    Kwame. Take the money. Trust me on this.

  47. I think the Magic made a mistake (i.e., an overreaction to their finals loss) with this trade. ORL was 3 games shy of winning a championship having lost their all star pointguard during the season and having to face an LA powerhouse that would/could not be denied back to back in the finals. That seems crazy to me, especially since VC is not the man he used to be and Hedo (although not worth $11 mil per over 4 years) revived his career beyond recognition since SAC. I don’t get it. Huge risk.

  48. Hedo in Portland! Yikes!

    On another note, the Lakers woes at the PG spot did not disappear overnight with this Championship. Considering non-moves in the Western Conference thus far, this means that we need someone who can hang and disrupt young, fast PG’s. Teams like Portland, Rockets, Jazz and the Hornets will continue to give us headaches unless we upgrade at that spot.

    I like Brown’s D on these guys, but this came at the cost of offense and passing. We all assume that Brown will improve once he learns the triangle more, but you also have to remember that not all players flourish offensive in the complicated Laker style offense.

    I loved Farmar in the last two rounds of the playoffs, but he is in the last year of his contract in a team overloaded with offensive weapons (Kobe, Gasol, Lamar, Bynum, Ariza) and there is no way he will get the minutes, the touches, nor the points that will earn him a fat contract in an already overloaded free agent market for 2010. On the other hand, I also think that Farmars game could grow by playing in practice against Brown (as opposed to the defensively challenged Sun Yue and Sasha). However, we all know that teams in this league spend big on scorers – not defensive stoppers. This, coupled with Farmar’s poor attitude during the 82 game season leads me to believe that he may be shipped off soon. This is unfortunate, as I really like the second unit when he and Brown are on the floor at the same time.

  49. 48 – I know I’m in the minority here (and by minority, I mean the only person) but I would love Kwame back as a replacement for Mbenga (at the same salary, of course).

    Before people riot, think about this logically. Kwame sucked because he was asked to play a role his talents would not allow him to handle. But Kwame as a fifth big man?

    -Both Kwame and Mbenga have awful hands; I’ve seen DJ bobble some passes Kwame wouldn’t have. Offensive non-factors.
    -Kwame’s post individual defense is far superior. He’s better at using his body, by the end of his stay here, many of us were impressed with at least that one facet of his game.
    -Both are great chemistry guys. The players loved Kwame while he was here.

    Of course to do so, Kwame will have to opt out, and be willing to return (does he have harsh feelings for the harsh treatment he got here?) But I’d love to see this happen. Mbenga gives us nothing, Kwame does a better job of using his strength and body, and can give us a little something in a small role.

  50. And pop icon Michael Jackson is dead. What a day.

  51. Anyone know when the draft is starting? I keep hearing conflicting times of 4pm and 4:30 pm.

  52. It hasn’t sunk into the media yet because they didn’t trade VC for Turk, but that’s essentially what it is. They won’t get Turk back now.

    It’s interesting to think about – how many teams have been that successful, made it to the Finals, and then the next year replaced their 2nd best player? And perhaps their most important offensive player? High risk, high reward, for sure.

  53. hey Kurt, this was “reported” in the Hoopsworld article about the VC trade-

    For the Nets this saves them a little over $2 million in 2009-10 and obviously a ton more in the following two seasons. They can keep Lee for very cheap for three more seasons (roughly the same dollars as Anderson), and can save even more money should they choose to waive Alston, whose contract is not fully guaranteed.

    so my question is, if Alston is not of any interest to the Nets, do we have any interest in him to help with our PG needs?
    and, what is the effect of him being waived? how does this affect our cap restrictions, ( I mean, if, we were interested)?

  54. Micheal Jackson dead?

  55. I think this definitely makes Orlando a better team. Without Hedo, Jameer will be able to do what he does best, which is create opportunities for his teammates through the pick n roll. I know Carter has been a “mail it in” type guy, but he’s in FL like someone said, and I have to believe he’s got a bit of a chip on his shoulder after so many winless seasons. If nothing else, his career has peaked and he is wanting to help his legacy with a title run. We’ll see, but I think it makes them better, plus they get rid of Alston which was a necessity. They will probably start Pietrus after his playoff success, so they will still have a floor loaded with offensive options.

    Also Kurt, Portland going after Hedo makes a great deal of sense, especially with their weakness at PG that he can cover. He may be a little overpriced, but he’s a veteran which they have been looking for. Still though, I think they have talent at the 3 and should look to upgrade at point.

  56. Chris H. In a short answer, Alston is old. If the Lakers are going for a fix at PG, I want someone who has 5 good years minimum left.

  57. 56. Yes. Cardiac arrest.

    Really crazy day.

  58. There was a reported trade rumor on Draftexpress: Devin Harris to Minnesota.

    “A complicated three-way trade involving New Jersey, Minnesota and Memphis, which would send Devin Harris to Minnesota, the #5 and #6 picks to Memphis and Ricky Rubio and Craig Smith to New Jersey. ”

    Any chance the Lakers would/could want to look into that? How would Harris fit in with the Lakers?

    Also, if the Lakers don’t trade their 2nd round picks, what do they do with those players? Is the only option to go international and stash them?

  59. RE: 51

    NO!!! Kwame Brown should not be allowed anywhere near the Lakers. He’s a slacker, goof-off, and a psychological drain to the team.

    Remember after the finals Phil mentioned that the Lakers had to shed some players who didn’t have the championship mindset?

    He was specifically talking about VladRad and Kwame Brown.

  60. Vince Carter to the the magic. I wonder if that trade would have had an impact on the outcome of the finals. I hope not. But I’m not sure.

    I hope the Lakers take these trades as a sign that they are doing something right, and not that they need to change something themselves.

  61. Kurt, did my comment go against any forum rules? If I did, I’m sorry. Stuck in moderation for some time, now gone.

    Anyway, I didn’t want to engage in trade speculation, I just wanted to point out that Minnesota is a team very short on guards and quite low on pay roll. Maybe a chance to unload Sasha (coupled with Farmar if needed), not so sure about Morrison since he’s probably more interesting to a team looking to shed payroll.

    A look at the Minnesota roster at Truehoop:

    http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-41-147/What-the-Timberwolves-Won-t-Do–Nothing.html

  62. Zephid:

    I hope Hinrich doesn’t get traded to Portland either, b/c if you look at expiring contracts, it’s highly likely Outlaw gets packaged to Chicago. Wouldn’t that lead to the possibility of the Blazers throwing their $7 million + cap space at Ariza? (They could kill 2 birds at once: strenthen their small forward position and kick their Western Conference rival in the nuts..gads! Bad, bad scenario for us!

  63. I know it’s way off topic – but reports are that Michael Jackson has passed away. He was a weird dude, but as far as his singing, dancing and entertaining he was one of the all-time greats. If it’s true, then here’s one last “Hee Hee” for all the Mike fans.

  64. 33. I feared the same thing so I checked out the player head to head between Vince and Kobe to confirm:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=cartevi01

    In the last 6 meetings the Lakers have gone 4-2, but Kobe has struggled mightily. His averages are 17.16ppg @29.9%, with a top FG% during that stretch of 33.33%. He has added 4.5 rpg and very good 8.2apg though.

  65. What a day. Also Farrah…

    33. Anyway, on VC’s defense on Kobe, I looked into it. Here are Kobe’s lines for the last four games.

    11/26/06. 19 pts/6 reb/10 ast/8-24
    12/22/06. 21 pts/6 reb/11 ast/4-13
    11/25/07. 31 pts/3 reb/7 ast/7-21 (VC only 25 min – also the only loss to Nets in three years)
    02/05/08. 6 pts/5 reb/8 ast/3-13
    11/25/08. 12 pts/6 reb/4 ast/5-17 (KB 28 min – blowout)
    03/27/09. 14 pts/1 reb/9 ast/5-19 (KB sprained ankle – but did all scoring after sprain)

    What I take from this is…

    - You’re right, the general trend is clear that Kobe shoots a poor percentage when guarded by VC.
    - On the other hand, he has an unusually high number of assists.
    - Looking at the rest of the box scores (which I didn’t type in here), the big men all had monster games. That meant Pau for the last three, but even Kwame/Bynum had good games.

    That suggests to me that VC does play good D on Kobe, but the effect may be enhanced by the Nets steering their entire D to stop Kobe. Supporting this without looking at game tape, the team without Kobe shot an excellent FG% each game:

    (29/58 = 50%, 30/58 = 52%, 27/53 = 51%, 35/71 = 49%, 39/70 = 56%, 36/68 = 53%)

    I’m looking forward to seeing how VC does with the Magic.

  66. Does anyone have a link for the draft that is not justin.tv? It seems like they have reached the maximum number of viewers from Sweden (which is kind of odd, since it’s 1 am and not a single swede is interested in basketball).

  67. go to espn360.com

  68. amare to golden state for belinelli, biedrins, wright and pick nr. 7!

  69. anonymous: Thanks, but I think I have to pay for that? And I’m really just interested in the draft; I’m using NBA league pass broadband for all the games.

  70. From KD:

    Even a conservative estimate would then have the Nets looking at about $45 million in cap space, with Lee, Devin Harris, Brook Lopez, Ryan Anderson, Chris Douglas-Roberts, and whoever they select with the 11th pick in tonight’s Draft on the roster. That’s a fantastic core that could suddenly fit two or three max deals into its coffers. Yikes.

  71. I’m already sick of Jay Bilas.

  72. Did I really read people suggesting that Vince is not an upgrade over Turkoglu?

    I’m actually a fan of Turk (and by no means a VC fan), but let’s not get ridiculous. Awesome trade for Orlando.

  73. Coffee is For Closers June 25, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Congrats Thunder on taking the first bust of this year’s draft.

  74. I cannot believe the Kings passed on Rubio!

  75. Coffee is For Closers June 25, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    I don’t know how good he’ll be, but tyreke evans gets my vote for best dressed thus far. Actually, he impressed me in the tournament.

  76. i feel bad for ricky

  77. Coffee is For Closers June 25, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    rubio, k love, al jefferson and flynn. playoff team, no, but they’ll be entertaining.

  78. two pgs? I smell a trade.

  79. If MN doesn’t trade Flynn, then they just killed one bird w/ two stones….they really should have taken Curry over Flynn

  80. lmao you could see the Warriors were taking Curry from Stern’s expression. He was smirking, loved sticking it to the New York fans.

  81. Ricky’s in a great place for his skill set

  82. Definately a trade. Maybe Rubio to Knicks? D’Antoni would be salivating.

  83. Good pick by the Raptors, they need an athletic wing who may be able to score. Definitely a project for a wing player, but he could turn into something special.

  84. Vince Carter is not the player people think he is. Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I don’t see him making Orlando much better than it was with Ugly, I mean Hedo. T

    he guy’s never won anything; he’s the sterotypical gunner who can’t be counted on in the clutch. He whines when he doesn’t get touches, and now he’s in a lineup with three fellow All-Stars, all of whom like to score.

    Aside from Howard, they have no one who gets after it on defense. And VC isn’t nearly the matchup problem that Hedo is, with his size, handle and shooting.

    At best, I see this as a wash for the Magic. My gut says they took a step backwards, especially losing a young glue guy like Lee.

    Maybe Otis felt Lee had to go so he’d be spared the fate of blasted as the second coming on Nick Anderson? Beyond that, why trade a young guy with guts, Finals experience and a low salary for a gutless, overpaid player who hasn’t been a factor in the playoffs since, what, Toronto vs. Philly in 2001?

  85. Huh. I forgot the Bucks were a franchise.

  86. j.d. Hastings June 25, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    Ryan Anderson was also included in the VC deal. He’s a perfect fit on that team. And yes I’m only saying that as a Cal fan.

  87. j.d. Hastings June 25, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    Rumor being reported that GSW is Trading Biedrins + part (maybe Stephen Curry) for Amare but they wont be able to do it until 7/1.

    First take? Finally the warriors get that character guy they needed to tone down some of the drama!

  88. 3 PGs? Has someone from Memphis infiltrated the Minnesota front office?

  89. 3 guards for minny? Doesnt make sense to me. Trade maybe?

  90. K, Ty in Denver makes more sense. This scouts vs stats battle over Lawson will be fun to watch.

  91. For some entertainment, read Kevin Love’s twitter page: http://twitter.com/Kevin_love

    Priceless.

  92. There goes Maynor. Sorry, Darius. Although I guess if he actually fell to 29 and we’ve already sold the pick, it’d be more painful.

  93. Damn. Kevin Pritchard likes Claver too, to draft him that high. We’ll probably be seeing this guy in a few years.

  94. my two favourite GMs seems to like the two guys I was looking for, Claver and Beaubois…

  95. Now I’m really, really pissed. Calathes just fell to us, and we’re going to pass on him to lighten the load on Buss’s wallet, the guy who I heard (at last count) profited over $300 million/year from the Lakers.

    Damn it.

  96. we could maybe have had blair if we had kept our pick, nevermind

  97. A Laker’s fan even though I live in Missouri. Gotta give a big hell yeah to DeMarre Carroll getting drafted in the first round. Nice to see a great guy and hard worker get a little love.
    Too bad that the Lakers are tax strapped as Sam Young would have helped us for a few years.

  98. Toney Douglas will make a fine Knick.

  99. From JD Hastings twitter: “the los angeles lakers draft… 3 million dollars!!”

  100. I can’t get pissed at Buss for wanting to save money when payroll is up in the $110 (with tax) range. Cuban and the Knicks ownership have said they lost money when the payroll was up in that range.

  101. if he did profit over $300 million/year from the Lakers, as snoopy mentioned, we can be pissed a little at him for wanting to save money.

  102. I’m going to guess that, just to be irritating, the Blazers will pick Calathes.

  103. Did the Cavs draft Eyenga? I’m sorry but the kid don’t belong to this league. He’ll be good for an european team but not the NBA.

  104. I can, when you take into account how much of a net profit he’s made off the Lakers over the years.

    Argh I’m bitter like dark chocolate.

  105. Dejuan Blair’s knees must have been really bad. I am surprised he fell out of the first round.

  106. Palani – I’ve been searching for that figure again (I remember $347 for some reason) but can’t find it. Here’s the figure I found now:

    The magazine also says that the Bulls enjoyed the biggest operating profit in the last year at $55.4 million, with the Lakers again being the runner-up with an operating profit of $47.9 million (on $191 million in revenues).

    And when you take into account that he’s profited millions nearly every year, my sympathy is limited.

  107. Will Hedo still opt out, or has he opted out already?

  108. Yes, I’m ticked at Jerry Buss for overseeing the Lakers to nine championships in 15 trips to the Finals. What a pathetic owner.

  109. We have to remember that the Lakers are a business. Buss made his money in real estate but now the Lakers are pretty much his sole income. The Lakers have a fairly large payroll so can’t exactly call the Buss family cheapskates. If we resign Ariza and Odom I will be more than happy personally.

  110. Nobody is profiting $300 mil, the team is only worth like $500 mil.

    Have the Lakers in past years probably made $40 mil give or take? Probably. But two things. One, Buss does not keep all of that — AEG owns 30% of the team, Magic owns a piece, etc. Second, this is a business. Buss should be able to turn a profit and with a team as big and successful as the Lakers he should be able to turn a big profit.

    But remember we are talking about the Lakers adding $20+ mil in payroll next year. This is no little thing he is doing resigning Ariza and Odom.

  111. What happened to Blair? Are his knees really that bad? I can’t believe he’s dropped so far.

  112. 110 – lol where did anyone suggest he’s a pathetic owner? Are we upset because there were quality players at 29, and when normal people are out of jobs and struggling to put food on the table, Buss – who has earned millions from the Lakers – is balking at stashing a player in Europe? Sorta. I think that’s reasonable, but that’s just me.

    Fans do have the right to be irritated with a single move, contrary to popular belief. One criticism of a single move does not equate to “omg! Phil Jaxsun suxors! Hall of Shame for him!”

    Whatever. It’s a done deal, although whining does help. Let’s see what magic Mitch can work with the 2nd rounders.

  113. Sorry for the double post, but I share Snoopy’s sentiments. I’m freaking pissed right now that we just missed on Calathes.

  114. 112 – that’s a good point, I forgot how much of the money goes to minority owners.

    BCR – I’m pretty surprised too, some places had Blair in the lottery. I didn’t hear about the knees, I heard more about his size but an injury would make sense.

  115. Snoopy2006,

    You do have the right to be upset with Buss, just as I have a right to be upset with you for your opinion.

  116. If SAN and POR pass on Calathes (and I doubt they will not, being the two most savvy international draftees), the Lakers might get him any way.

  117. Profit being shared means cost being shared too, doesn’t it? Buss isn’t taking all the profits, but that surely means he’s not paying for all of the roster either, i would imagine.

    Also, I think it’s smart to get 3 mil for a pick instead of ‘investing’ it on a player. Even if he is stashed in Europe, 3 mil now is 3 mil NOW…

  118. Hey, just started following….

    What are the chances Calathes falls to us? Any chance of swapping both are 2nd rounders to move up a bit?

  119. Damn San Antonio got Blair. That is not a good thing for us.

  120. 117 – Fair enough, as long as you’re upset with what I actually said. Never once did I say he’s pathetic as an owner. Kurt, for example, is clearly in favor of the single move itself that we’re discussing, for very logical reasons.

    There goes Blair, finally. Graydon Gordian will be happy with that lol

  121. kobama – Don’t jinx it! lol I’m starting to get hopeful again, we’re only 3 picks away….

  122. Calathes, Mills, Jerebko, Budinger all still available these were guys talked about towards the end of the first….sucks that san antonio got blair but we could still get somebody decent.

  123. cathalas still on the board

  124. dang jerebko gone.

  125. If not Calathes, Buddinger or Danny Green look fairly good for second rounders.

  126. Why did Budinger’s stock fall that far? I never liked him much, but from lottery to here? Any particular reason?

  127. RIP Micheal you ar truly the GOAT

  128. Was not expecting any tension today. Must meditate. Still fragile from Game 4.

  129. 128 he’s been saying he may play pro volleyball.

  130. Holy crap Calathes is still there for us! Be still, my beating heart.

    Now let’s see if Mitch goes for him. As much as I like Thorpe, I trust Mitch more. If he doesn’t choose Calathes, I trust his opinion.

  131. I think the last two picks, Blair and Big J (sure, I can call him that) are guys that can play in the league. And I think Mills will be a player too, although I hope the Lakers get Nick C.

  132. Let’s all hold hands, stand, and chant together:

    Calethes, Calethes, Calethes…

    Please Mitch. Although we do trust you after the Walton, Turiaf, etc. second rounders in years past.

  133. we took beverly?

  134. Patrick Beverley? Who is that?

  135. played in ukraine after leaving college a great defensive pg only like 6’1

  136. Calathes is still available, we saved 3 million dollars… pretty good.

    Makes snoops2006 rant about lightening the load on jerry buss’s wallet irrelevant

  137. anyone got more info on this guy?

  138. Since he had really no intention of

    (Sorry for the double post, i’m having trouble with this LG arena )

  139. Beverley is actually a good pick. He used to play two guard at Arkansas and had a beautiful shooting stroke but was 6’1” so he went to Ukraine for a year to hone his point guard skills. He absolutely lit up the Eurocamp and was arguably the best player there besides Mills. A fantastic value pick — he can continue to develop in Europe and be a great choice down the road. I would have liked Calathes, but this doesn’t make me that sad either.

    But SA getting Blair? What on earth? How the hell do these things happen? SA might actually seriously challenge us next year. I’m freaked out right now.

  140. 139 he played in college for a year was a good prospect then left to play in ukraine. He can score and is pretty quick laterally. Since he played in Ukraine, he was able to play in the Euro game where he was pretty good and really good defensively. I think perhaps what put him over Calathes was maybe the lateral quickness to guard pgs. They both can really score, but i’m not sure Calathes could’ve guarded pg’s even though he suits the triangle on offense. I’m not sure Beverely will come over this year. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that second round picks can negotiate the terms of their contracts. Calathes got a fairly nice contract in Europe, perhaps that would’ve been a factor in his negotiations with the Lakers.

  141. Thanks for the info, BCR, that makes me feel a lot better.

    Here’s my thoughts on SA, Cavs, Magic and Boston to some extent: next year will be really tough for us. We can do it, but it’s gonna be harder. But the thing is, Duncan, Giniboli, Shaq, KG and maybe even Vince have only one more year left in them. In 2010, the field will be wide open and we’ll be a lot better (depending on how Kobe keeps up and Bynum’s health). So in the end, while I’m worried about next year, I’m still confident about the future

  142. Why not go with Calathes? Anybody know what the Lakers might be thinking?

  143. BCR – That’s some comfort, I haven’t heard anything else about the guy. Extremely surprised by this 2nd round, Blair and Young and now Calathes falling this far. Seems like a huge divide between Thorpe and NBA GMs.

    Xavier – Have you seen a lot of Beverley?

  144. kobama,

    Cheers.

    But on SA, how on earth do they get this great value picks? Parker? Ginobli? Hill? Absolutely amazing luck (and a healthy modicum of superb drafting skill obviously).

  145. what the hell is wrong with the t wolves? I know Calathes is good but to take 4 pgs and keep 3 of em….even if Calathes is in Europe he’ll come over eventually.

  146. Beverly played at Akansas andgot kicked out of UA for not writng his own papers for class. Thats how he ended up in Ukraine
    http://www2.arkansasonline.com/news/2009/jun/01/beverley-cheating-not-limited-him-20090601/?sports/college

  147. My guess is any concerns with Calathes, like JD said, would have to do with his lateral quickness and defensive potential. He’ll probably be better in a non-triangle offense anyway, but damn he would have been fun to have…

    The T’Wolves, in 1 night, have gone from an anemic backcourt to one with some major potential.

  148. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-090608

    Good article (Insider required) on Beverley’s performance at the Eurocamp. Let’s say he impressed a whole lot of people there. His defensive effort is definitely something we can greatly use and appreciate.

  149. JD,

    Assets. Assets. Assets. At this point in the draft, you take the best player available. Kahn must be freaking happy right now.

  150. Beverley left Arkansas because he was caught cheating, turning in papers that he didn’t write. Good athlete, small at 6’1″, streaky shooter, almost no ability to create for others but a good and quick defender. Wonder if he will ever wear the blue and gold?

  151. BCR – Chad Ford shares your sentiments:

    “Are you kidding me? How do these guys fall into San Antonio’s lap? Tony Parker at 29? Ginobili late in the second? Now Blair here? This is a great pick for the Spurs. He might be able to start in San Antonio if Duncan plays the 5. This late in the draft, his knee issues aren’t much of a risk; he’s just a really cheap rebounder. The Spurs are getting an A+ tonight.”

  152. 152 I bet he will eventually, the reason he chose to go to Ukraine instead of transfer to another school in lieu of the cheating, was to hone his pg skills, that’s according to Fran fraschilla. I think with us potentially moving Farmar he’ll come over at some point. Some guys to look at 59 another Euro pg in 6’5 Nando De Colo or perhaps pf Ahmad Nivens

  153. I guess there are no PGs left in the draft. Minni just picked a forward.

  154. Other then the cheating, you could put Little Rock in front of the Arkansas and we might recognize the player better. Streaky shooter, Fish. Almost no ability to create fro others, Fish. Good and quick defender (the quick part was in bygone days but still), Fish. Good athlete, Fish. Now if we find out he loves the PUJIT and has trouble finishing around the rim, I think we have our new PG, same as the old PG.

  155. Ford on Beverley: “He’s super athletic, is a lockdown defender, and can play both the 1 and the 2. Nice pick for the Lakers.”

    I love how the triangle allows us to take PGs that would be worth little to other teams (because of a lack of PG skills) and turn them into solid players.

  156. San antonio is going to get patty mills, dang it.

  157. P. Ami,

    I wouldn’t say Beverley can’t create for others. His whole time in Ukraine was devoted to improving his point guard skills. He averaged about five assists a game, which is equivalent to about seven to eight assists here (given how stingy European leagues are about awarding assists). Also at the Eurocamp, he didn’t commit a single turnover all camp while tearing the place apart.

  158. New post up where we can talk Beverley and whatever happens at 59.

  159. Wow, where is Patty Mills going to fall? This is a night for surprises indeed.

  160. 162. hopefully to 59 :D