Lakers Preseason Game 2: The Fabulous Forum

Kurt —  October 9, 2009

la lakers media day9/29/2009
The Lakers are back at the Forum tonight. Gatinho did a great post on the building that is worth revisiting:

Cooke tabbed the architectural firm of Charles Luckman and Associates who had just designed the newly built Madison Square Garden and would later design the LAX Theme Building among other famous American structures. Cooke disliked the preliminary drawings that were presented and asked for something that recalled the architecture of antiquity, a modern day Roman Coliseum.

Cooke would end up spending upwards of $16 million dollars on the land and property combined for Hollywood Park’s new neighbor. It would be Chick that would dub it “Fabulous” and Cooke that would remark that for such a great idea, Hearn would receive “something extra” in his next paycheck. In a vintage Cooke maneuver, Hearn would open the envelope to find a wallet sized photo of the Laker owner.

The Kings would have the honor of playing first on December 30, 1967 with a win over the Philadelphia Flyers. A day later the Lakers would follow suit, christening the new building and the New Year by pounding the San Diego Rockets.


A couple other things of note, from some of the smartest basketball writers on the Web.

First, the Basketball Prospectus preview book is out. Kevin Pelton remains one of my personal favorite hoop writers, and I got an advanced look at this and thought it was worth the time (particularly for the other teams, which we don’t know as well). I can also promise some more and interesting previews coming to this site.

Also, the brilliant Bethlehem Shoals wrote an open letter to Ron Artest that I think is more on point than the first.

67 responses to Lakers Preseason Game 2: The Fabulous Forum

  1. Well the Mavs fired the stat guy Truehoop has been talking to. Everybody has their pet theory as to why but mine is that Cuban came back from a summer of doing other stuff to realize that his well paid stat guru had somehow hoodwinked him into signing Tim Thomas.

  2. J.d. thats pretty funny. Though the plus minus numbers are interesting, claiming that Durant is in the bottom 10% of the NBA is kind of ridiculous.

  3. Its one thing for your numbers to spit out a result like that and another to be so enamored by your own equations that you say you wouldn’t want a 21 year old stud like that for free. That’s where it crosses over to hubris.

  4. Any url information on where to stream the game tonight for those of us outside LA would be greatly appreciated!

  5. I think this excerpt from TrueHoop might have been the straw that broke the camel’s back for Cuban:

    Knowing that just about any NBA general manager would trade his own children for a prospect of Durant’s caliber, I asked Winston if he’d advise his team to accept if the Mavericks were (in some alternate universe) offered Durant for free. “I’d say probably not,” he replied. “I would not sign the guy. It’s simply not inevitable that he’ll make mid-career strides. Some guys do. But many don’t, and he’d have to improve a lot to help a team.”

  6. I dont think that any of the letters are appropriate when you consider that it is his own time he is using with all the things off the court. He has the right to do anything he wants too, outside of the time he is practicing and game time. It is self righteous to me to tell people what to do in their spare time. If he wants to train to be an astronaut in his spare time thats fine with me, as long as he brings the intensity on the court. You only practice maybe two hours a day, then a game every other 2 or 3 days. NBA players have more down time than a truck stop lot lizard.

    RonRon is not a brain surgeon, curing cancer or aids.He’s a basketball player who happens to like the fun things in life. Maybe some of these so called experts on spare time management should judge ole RonRon by what he does on the court and not what he is doing off of it. Then maybe they will have some spare time to waste not worry about everybody else.

  7. Agreed Sanchez, the furore surrounding Artest’s off-court antics is really getting tiresome. Is anybody worried about this team being distracted by that stuff? The same team that made the Finals after their franchise player demanded a trade in the offseason?

  8. Missed the original post on the F.Forum. Great post and brought back a lot of memories. I grew up in Inglewood and was at one of the first games there. Even met Jack Kent Cooke.

    However, the Luckman firm did not “later” design the Theme Building at LAX. That building opened in 1961, long before the Forum was built.


  9. hey FB&G family, writing from Paris, finally coming home on Monday after almost 2 weeks here, can’t complain, it was work related, but I am missing these games! if anyone has a link, I’ll swing by in a few hours, (around 4:30AM) cause I’d really like to see some ball!
    thanks in advance!

  10. i predict 100 plus three throws tonight

  11. link, anyone?

  12. absolutely horrible start by fish, 3 misses, 2 turnovers

  13. Only the Warriors could have Stephen Jackson as a team captain.

  14. i know its early in the season but already hoping for less and less fish, getting burned by ellis

  15. stephen jackson with 5 fouls and techinal within the first quarter!

  16. C’mon guys, Ellis is a speedster. Even Farmar would have trouble keeping up with him.

    I think Ellis is a faster straight runner than Chris Paul, but CP3 can weave through traffic like nobody’s business.

  17. GSW needs to get rid of S. Jackson before he does something stupid to damage his trade value. Its already a tense situation thats not going to get any better.

  18. Shannon gots crazy hops, Im gonna start calling him TOAST.

  19. Kobe wants to destroy Curry. I like it.

  20. when bynum decides to make a move he gets tunnell vision and can get swarmed

  21. lack of jump shooting some what evident tonight

  22. This is one ugly game.

  23. These open letters are terrible.

    Then again I can barely remember an open letter that I’ve liked.

    How pretentious do you have to be to write something so mundane specifically for one individual but think the whole world should take a look at it?

  24. 14 – Their clueless team captain is nicely complemented by their clueless coach, owner, ect ect …

  25. the only open letters i’ve enjoyed are found at mcsweeney’s.

  26. As one of the younger people on here, I think I finally understand the Celtics-Lakers hatred. Obviously not to the same extent since we’ve played in 1 finals, but just seeing KG, Pierce, and Allen together on the floor again made me want to puke.

    Seeing Wallace in a Celts uniform is just funny. I remember when the Pistons were the only dominant EC team, and how insulted Wallace was that anyone would give the Celts props in their first season together. He would trash the Celtics all the time. Guess he’s been humbled a little, if he’s fine mopping up behind Kendrick Perkins.

    The Celts are just a team of mercenaries and some of the biggest trash-talkers in the game.

  27. the other Stephen October 10, 2009 at 7:29 am

    if you like kobe in the slightest, i think y’all will find this NBA2K10 trailer hilarious, like i did:

    maybe it’s the part where the mascot shoots the t-shirt gun at him, or maybe it’s the part where he shoots over 6 guys. if also you’ve watched the scene from Semi-Pro where andre benjamin dribbles around and around the court and shoots a three with 5 players contesting his shot at the same time, you’ll laugh out loud too.


  28. #29. the other Stephen,

    More fun with Kobe and 2K10:

    “My footwork is crazy.”

  29. I’m buying NBA2K10 just because Kobe is on the cover (and this time, it’s a respectable franchise he’s on the cover for).

  30. 28 – Snoop
    “The Celts are just a team of mercenaries and some of the biggest trash-talkers in the game.”

    Now I’m a Celtics hater, too but not for the reasons you give!

  31. the other Stephen October 10, 2009 at 10:40 am

    shannon brown, crazy hops, and india pale ale.

    the clips looked like they had a bit more step in their game. they certainly seemed to enjoy themselves on the break. we can only hope for such turnarounds in franchise culture as these:

    don’t screw it up for yourself, donald sterling.

  32. As to the game a couple of Hmmmms:

    Was it just me or did Kobe in 3Q act as the PG,even waving Fish away so he could bring up ball? W/Brown getting most of his minutes at the SG spot,is Phil setting up a future Brown defensive point/offensive SG role in Brown/Kobe/Ron line-up?

    Sure did look like alot of empty seats at the Forum. I know that it’s a late arriving crowd,but mid-game shots of behind basket showed a ton of empty seats and I didn’t see any upper deck shots after early !Q shots showed they were almost devoid of people. If someone there at game could address this,thanks.
    Not a shot at Laker fans,but an observation Pre-Season games aren’t drawing very well around League. If this trend carries over to reg season,teams like Lakers,Celts,Cavs are going to playing fewer road games against hostile crowds-in fact their supporters/fans may get suprising support on road,esp late in season. Counterbalanced somewhat by loss of energy from small crowds leaving visitors sluggish. Then again,the home team will lack that frenzied crowd that will help inspire them against better foes.. Overall tho,looks like Lakers may not be as penalized by road-heavy later schedule as would normally be the case.

    And if the crowds continue to be poor,not only does next yrs’ Salary Cap go down,but so does the Lux Tax level.

  33. Bought the collector’s edition ’cause our fav guy is on the cover.

    Then again, didn’t buy last year’s game ’cause they had a leprechaun on that one

  34. Game #2 and 2nd straight game where Derek Fisher was the 3rd best PG on the floor. I will not let myself stop until he is on the bench or until he ends this now 9 month slump he has been in.

  35. 2nd straight pre-season game that he was the 3rd best PG, sure.

    but if my memory serves me right, fish was their best PG the last 2 real games that mattered. and hmmm, wasn’t that the finals?

  36. if farmar developed like he should’ve last year (blame it on the injury or whatever), i would be all for starting him. but he didn’t. he regressed. as great as shanwow has been, he isn’t proven enough to be a starter yet… so it’s just got to be fish. he’s definitely on the lower spectrum of starting pg’s but i don’t see farmar or brown starting for him to begin the season. if either proves they can as the season develops, then i’m all for it. but slump or no slump, fish doesn’t deserve to be bashed around here after all he’s done for the team over the years.

  37. 36. Its the 2nd preseason game and we already know how u feel about fish. its a real downer since the season hasn’t even started. We get it. U won’t be happy until he retires. u think he sucks. If this is going to be a constant for every game I suggest u just change your handle to “aaron- I hate fish” so I don’t have to read about it. its gets real old. How about being positive sometimes instead of negative all the time.

  38. 39 – Aaron needs to tell PJ, not us, that he hates Fisher, and that Fisher sucks.

    (Warning – sarcasm alert): I’m sure Phil would obey, if only he knew the error of his ways. After all, the ten titles he’s won as coach don’t mean all that much.

    But in the meantime, we (me included!) play into Aaron’s hands by giving him all this attention.

  39. I think that about 100% of the time, give or take a percent up or down, an open letter to a professional basketball player is a lame idea. Yes, this includes 101% of the time.

  40. I think Aaron meant behind Ellis and Curry; they were both on the floor, no?

  41. Great, we left off from last year with the Fisher bashing, uhg…

    “To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.” – Elbert Hubbard

  42. I took my son to the game last night he’s 9. Even though it was a pre season game I wanted his first game to be at the forum. Like most parents I wanted him to relive my memories. It didn’t work out so well he was bored and wanted to go to pinks. I however got to live out one of my dreams floor seats for under $200 ok not actually floor seats but right behind Stu Lantz. next to M.T. and Vick for me a life long fan it was surreal. As for attendance the upper deck was packed by halftime but the lower level was sparsely packed however it was almost empty until half time.

  43. Jeez everyone gets their panties in a wad just becausr Aaron expresses his (valid) opinion. Yes, obviously fish isn’t a great point guard. Yet nobody can argue with what happened in the finals. I obviously don’t completely agree with Aaron but I don’t find the need to post complaining about it. Then instead of one post that annoys me, I have to read 3 or 4 counter posts that annoy me as well. So if you disagree with him, just leave it alone. You’re not going to change his mind. He makes plenty of other posts not regarding this issue that are perfectly fine.

  44. As Laker fans, we all appreciate our team–especially now that they’ve been to the finals and won the NBA championship the last two years. Since we watch nearly every game, and go through box scores, and sometimes watch reruns, we notice, or think we notice imperfections in every player.

    For the Lakers, imperfections seem to follow whoever plays point guard. There are many we could name that didn’t or couldn’t handle the job, but the player whose imperfections drove me to distraction in recent times was Smush Parker–who initially seemed a deus ex machina–ending a series of disasters tracing back at least to the Glove (Gary Payton), or the even more disastrous Chucky Atkins.

    The Smusher was much taller than Chucky and quicker than the Glove. His first game at starting point guard, he scored more than 20 points. I was so excited I almost cried.

    I soon came back to earth when I discovered that Smush played toreador
    defense as even slow opponents darted by. He couldn’t do all of the little things that a point guard does to help win a game–the things that can’t be taught.
    On offense, I realized that Smush could not pass–at least to his fellow Lakers. He was a single player turnover machine–and he loved to shoot–especially the wrong shot at the wrong time.

    I got so that I could anticipate when Smush would mix an end of game defensive lapse with a turnover and missed shot to lose another game. I called it Smushaphobia. I’d sometimes deliberately not watch the last two minutes–not able to stand the pain. I’d rant at Phil for not seeing the obvious and playing someone else. It was not to be.

    With the Lakers out of the playoffs. and the Smusher headed for the highway,
    I became nostalgic for the time not long ago when the Lakers were champions. I decided to watch the Jazz win game after game as they advanced in the playoffs–in part because of a former Laker: Derek Fisher. I watched his presence guide the team and shape their spirit. I marveled at how much better he was than Smush at expressing team defense. I marveled at how smart he was.

    Then one game, Derek was gone–on a mission to be with his daughter during an emergency operation in New York. The team began to founder even as Derek was returning by plane. We all remember his dramatic return in the last minutes of the game–being thrust into the game without any warmups–hitting a crucial three point basket to win the game for the Jazz. Derek still remembered how to be a champion.

    If only we could get him back for the Lakers and restore that championship spirit we had lost . . . .

    We all remember how Fish managed to
    void a long term deal with the Jazz for his daughter, and ultimately sign a lesser contract to return to LA.

    In Utah, they had already given Derek
    the slot once held by John Stockton–and John played until he was 40 on a team known for tough defense. Derek has already indicated that he wants to stay with the Lakers beyond this season. I hope he does.

    We all know what has happened to the Lakers ever since Fish has been back. Even before his miracle against Orlando, we knew that his spirit was always in the background of the Lakers return to glory. Even though some may no longer see what Derek brings, most of us learned the hard way long ago.

  45. 45),
    You don’t need to defend me, I actually agree with them… I have to be more creative and clever with my Fisher bashing from now on. I am sorry. I mean Derek is doing all the work for me… actually so are Farmar and Brown for playing so well in the playoffs and now into the preseason. I need to shake things up. Its just boring.

    Part of the reason Fisher’s playing time irritates me so is that few local media members (the national media was calling for Fisher to be benched last postseason) realize Fisher is the teams 3rd best PG. I will have to now give credit to the oc registers Kevin Ding for being the first and only local writer to declare Derek’s time has come and gone as he did during the first round of last years playoffs. Writing that Shannon Brown was a better option. Actually all the Laker fans I come across feel the same way I do. I guess in this forum the fans are so die hard they feel obligated to blindly love a longtime nice guy Laker such as derek.

    Phil Jackson is the greatest coach of all time… but every coach isn’t perfect and i feel his Fisher love is one of his few mistakes. I do however predict he will come around and bench Derek within the next couple months. Actually… from here on out I will leave the Fisher bashing to you guys. I am retired now, much like Fish.

  46. for me, I’m just going to skip all aarons posts from now on, I’ve pretty much read it enough times that he hates Fish, and I’ve countered him enough times as well, so it’s all played out as far as I’m concerned.

    still love this blog and it’s a daily read for me, no matter where I am in the world, (reading from Paris at the moment).
    lots of other great things to read and discuss.
    especially this upcoming season, could be one for the ages!

  47. Cayucos Surfer,
    I don’t know how long you have been reading this, but this subject has been talked to death. We want to try something new.

  48. 45

    It’s not about agreeing or disagreeing. You might agree with me if I say “Kobe is the best player in the league”, but if I posted the same thing on EVERY SINGLE THREAD it would get pretty annoying wouldn’t it? It’s basically trolling.

    What makes it worse is that we are all well aware of Fisher’s limitations, yet Aaron insists on trying to ‘convince’ us.

  49. Aaron, these are your words-
    Actually… from here on out I will leave the Fisher bashing to you guys. I am retired now, much like Fish.

    I actually don’t believe it, but if it’s true, that would be nice.

    I thought Drrayeye said it better than I could have, I was going to write about the mental and emotional skills he brings, little things like leadership, that make Derek so valuable in our eyes. Sure, he doesn’t cover the quickest of the PG’s in the league, (but, who does? and it’s not like he ever did, so I don’t look at it like he’s declining, actually Phil recently said he marveled at how in shape Fish came to camp this year) I think we’ll be seeing Fish for years to come in this Org, the team knows a person with high morale compass when they see one, one worth keeping.

  50. Yes I have been reading this blog even before Aaron showed up, I believe. And like I said, I don’t agree with him about fish. My point was that instead of numerous responses trying to argue with him, you should just skip it. As I said, you’re not going to change his mind. It’s much easier to skip over one post than it is the ten responses that keep the subject going.

    And I wasn’t defending you either Aaron , I said the constant fish hate annoyed me. No offense of course and you do have some valid points. You are right Fish will either prove you wrong or prove you right. Either way there’s no use beating a dead horse.

    And now here I am, responding and keeping it going, much to the chagrin of most posters here. I will take my leave.

    Go lakers! Can’t wait for the season to start!

  51. Craig W – if you’re looking for something new – here are a few thoughts.

    Kobe is a selfish player and doesn’t make is teammates better.

    LO is overrated, inconsistent and needs to be traded

    Gasol is too soft .

    Jackson loses games because he doesn’t know how to use timeouts.

    Throwing Fisher into the mix – it is amazing the Lakers were able to even scrape together a winning record the last couple of years.


  52. I can’t wait for the season to start…

    I always get a kick out of this… and it seems topical…

  53. Haha. Classic.

    Since things have been slow, I’ve been watching some old Kobe videos from the threepeat years. And wow. I remember watching all the games, but I just did not remember how insanely good he was. I’ve always loved Kobe but all the hate over the years had gotten to me I suppose. He absolutely carried that team for long stretches.

    I wish he’d bring the fro back though.

  54. I always very much ENJOY reading this blog every single day… I’m getting excited today, tomorrow is my first Fantasy Basketball live draft, yes folks the 2009-10 Season has begun.

  55. troll or no troll, i like there being something on the thread better than seeing it left alone 😉

    anyway, we all wish for the perfect team that will defeat all other teams on paper without making us nervous. but since that is never the case, we always focus on players who seem to be our weakest link, and among our starting five, that happens to be Fisher.

    Come to think of it, it’d be pretty hard to come up with a point guard who wouldn’t be our weakest link when you consider the other four: young and promising bynum, slick and efficient gasol, the good ron, and the godly bryant.

    I mean, you’d have to wish for a top 10 point guard or else we’ll be bashing our PG even if he is a few notches above Fisher. Which basically means, Farmar and Shannon will not fare much better.

  56. 54, right on point, nomuskles. You would think some people could grow out of this behavior after their teenage years, but seems like some people carry it long into their 20s and 30s. Their are lots of ways to express one’s opinion without coming across as a condescending jerk; Everyone is ok with just self-expression. But no one likes it when their opinion is belittled.

    As for the games, I’d like to reserve my judgements until our team actually has their legs underneath them; judging them now is like judging a marathon-runner during his warm-ups.

  57. Zephid,
    Wait… am I the condescending jerk or is it everyone that disagrees with me and thinks Derek is the Lakers best PG? Cause if Im the condescending Jerk I agree with you. Because I do think less of anyone who watches Lakers games and thinks Fisher is the best fit for the team at starting PG. I don’t think less of you guys as basketball fans… I think less of you as human beings.

  58. Aaron,

    Yeah, but he hit those 3’s in Game 4! If it wasn’t for him…….

  59. the other Stephen October 11, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    guys, would it be too much trouble to restrain yourselves and ignore comments that you feel don’t contribute to a post? i don’t care for aaron’s fish crusade either, but it does *not* tarnish my enjoyment of this site. if he truly worsens your reading experience, you need some perspective. there is so much other great analysis to enjoy on this site! the players we discuss face an unimaginable amount of distraction on a nightly basis. if kobe can sink free throws with thousands of fans waving bang sticks in his face and shouting obscenities about his momma, then you at the very least have the mental fortitude to just skip over his comments. it’s not that hard.

  60. Fish is the starter until one of the others guys plays so well that it FORCES PJ to move him to the bench.
    They will get Phil’s attention by playing tough, smart defense with maximum effort (like Fish)
    , know your role(like Fish) and run the offense(like Fish).
    Until then, nothing will change.

  61. Honestly, I think Aaron is onto something here. Stick with what works. All the fish hate from him last season resulted in a championship. So if he can maintain the hate, i think we’re pretty much guaranteed the title.

    Keep it coming, Aaron!

  62. 61)
    Like I already said I will no longer be talking about Fisher because most of my opinions (most would say facts) that I share on him are negative. But when Fisher does move to the bench before the all star break in favor of Shannon Brown instead of “I guess Aaron was right.” I would like to read… “Thank god Fisher’s presence in the starting lineup didn’t hurt the Lakers chances of winning 70 games.” Because to me either way the Lakers if they stay somewhat healthy are going to win it all. What will really bother me is if Jackson’s long leash on Fish costs the Lakers a chance to make history.

  63. I think Darth Vader put it best when he said…

    “I find your lack of faith disturbing”

  64. 2 points here:

    1. The repeated fish-hate statements are annoying.

    2. Fisher is not the best fit PG for the team.

    Aaron, it is not personal when I’d say its getting old…

    And for the others, “learn to let go, Luke…”