Comments on: The Black Hole? http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/ A Lakers Blog. Thoughts, reflections, and the odd rant on the Los Angeles Lakers and the NBA (even the Clippers). Thu, 09 Sep 2010 01:00:02 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Jason http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-2/#comment-640321 Jason Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:54:29 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640321 Kevin McHale was nicknamed the Black Hole as well and is considered possibly the player with the best low post moves ever. It is not necessarily an insult or a degrading term. Kevin McHale was nicknamed the Black Hole as well and is considered possibly the player with the best low post moves ever. It is not necessarily an insult or a degrading term.

]]> By: Zephid http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-2/#comment-640301 Zephid Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:44:47 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640301 56, I think there are a number of flaws in your logic. First, I named Andrew "The Black Hole;" if anything, Darius has been against the name. Second, don't you see all the complaining about how Andrew doesn't get the ball enough? That's why he only averages 17 ppg. Guys don't pass him the ball, because that's its final destination before heading to the rim. So it's completely compatible for him to be TBH and still average only 17 ppg. No one has claimed that Andrew is not in fact a good scorer, if not becoming a great scorer. But this does not change the fact that he rarely passes out of the post. You can debate the merits of whether he should or should not pass out, but doesn't change the fact that he will shoot the ball out of a double before he passes out. You seem to have it in your head that "Black Hole" is some horrendous insult that I've placed on Andrew; if anything, it is a balanced praise/critique. Andrew should be aggressive, but this needs to be balanced against the flow of the game. 56, I think there are a number of flaws in your logic.

First, I named Andrew “The Black Hole;” if anything, Darius has been against the name.

Second, don’t you see all the complaining about how Andrew doesn’t get the ball enough? That’s why he only averages 17 ppg. Guys don’t pass him the ball, because that’s its final destination before heading to the rim. So it’s completely compatible for him to be TBH and still average only 17 ppg.

No one has claimed that Andrew is not in fact a good scorer, if not becoming a great scorer. But this does not change the fact that he rarely passes out of the post. You can debate the merits of whether he should or should not pass out, but doesn’t change the fact that he will shoot the ball out of a double before he passes out.

You seem to have it in your head that “Black Hole” is some horrendous insult that I’ve placed on Andrew; if anything, it is a balanced praise/critique. Andrew should be aggressive, but this needs to be balanced against the flow of the game.

]]> By: Pine Rider http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-2/#comment-640277 Pine Rider Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:35:07 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640277 GREAT blog and comments. Besides passing and pounding the boards, Drew must be more focused, energetic and consistent on defense. He has lapses which are infectious or he gets infected by when our Lakers fall asleep. Our perimeter defenders screw up not infrequently, and Drew needs to defend the paint better instead of leaving it up to Pau/LO, Artest/KB. Does anyone have stats on how well he does getting back on D after a missed Laker shot compared to LO or Pau? On Pau, he deserves more touches. Drew and Pau are our most efficient players. Kobe is our best player but, let's be honest, he takes more low percentage shots than he should (so does L.O. A.M. (after marriage)) and most of the Laker bench. GREAT blog and comments. Besides passing and pounding the boards, Drew must be more focused, energetic and consistent on defense. He has lapses which are infectious or he gets infected by when our Lakers fall asleep.

Our perimeter defenders screw up not infrequently, and Drew needs to defend the paint better instead of leaving it up to Pau/LO, Artest/KB. Does anyone have stats on how well he does getting back on D after a missed Laker shot compared to LO or Pau?

On Pau, he deserves more touches. Drew and Pau are our most efficient players. Kobe is our best player but, let’s be honest, he takes more low percentage shots than he should (so does L.O. A.M. (after marriage)) and most of the Laker bench.

]]> By: Snoopy2006 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-2/#comment-640271 Snoopy2006 Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:39:01 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640271 56 - I'm not sure why "The Black Hole" has to become a nationalized term that we see on Bill Simmons' podcasts before someone can write about it on FBaG. Darius' post was a well-thought out analysis addressing concerns some have expressed on this site. And guess what? It appeared on this site, and--wait for it--was written for the people who visit <i> this site</i>...a significant portion of whom expressed those concerns over Bynum's passing. Shock! The whole point of it was that some FBaG'ers had concerns over Bynum's passing, and so there was a post on FBaG addressing that. I'm not sure why that's a difficult concept to grasp, but then again I'm not blinded by Bynum's jockstrap. I look forward to reading your piece on Magic Johnson's racism. 56 – I’m not sure why “The Black Hole” has to become a nationalized term that we see on Bill Simmons’ podcasts before someone can write about it on FBaG.

Darius’ post was a well-thought out analysis addressing concerns some have expressed on this site. And guess what? It appeared on this site, and–wait for it–was written for the people who visit this site…a significant portion of whom expressed those concerns over Bynum’s passing. Shock!

The whole point of it was that some FBaG’ers had concerns over Bynum’s passing, and so there was a post on FBaG addressing that. I’m not sure why that’s a difficult concept to grasp, but then again I’m not blinded by Bynum’s jockstrap.

I look forward to reading your piece on Magic Johnson’s racism.

]]> By: Darius http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-2/#comment-640259 Darius Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:31:20 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640259 Kaveh, I read your comment, had a lot to say, then Kurt beat me to it. I will say, though, that I don't claim to be a journalist; I am only a fan. I see the game and its players and like to talk about what I see. And that's it. Also, the reason there is a question mark in the title of the post is because it really is a question to me. And in the post, I try to go about discussing what I think is actually going on. Thanks for reading. Kaveh,
I read your comment, had a lot to say, then Kurt beat me to it. I will say, though, that I don’t claim to be a journalist; I am only a fan. I see the game and its players and like to talk about what I see. And that’s it. Also, the reason there is a question mark in the title of the post is because it really is a question to me. And in the post, I try to go about discussing what I think is actually going on. Thanks for reading.

]]> By: Kurt http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-2/#comment-640256 Kurt Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:20:48 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640256 New post up from Bill Bridges. New post up from Bill Bridges.

]]> By: Kurt http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-2/#comment-640255 Kurt Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:20:11 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640255 Kaveh, you really need to relax. First, this is a blog, not the New York Times or Washington Post or whatever you consider "objective journalism" (as someone who works in that field we can have a discussion if you want about if objective journalism has now or has ever really existed, but that's an entirely different topic). We have a little fun here, which can include nicknames now and again. But you go on to prove the point of the post — you admit that Bynum could learn to pass better. Darius does a fantastic job breaking that down in detail, the pros and the cons. But sadly you can barely get past the nickname to get to the meat of the post. You miss the point. This is a blog and the style of it is not changing. Kaveh, you really need to relax. First, this is a blog, not the New York Times or Washington Post or whatever you consider “objective journalism” (as someone who works in that field we can have a discussion if you want about if objective journalism has now or has ever really existed, but that’s an entirely different topic). We have a little fun here, which can include nicknames now and again. But you go on to prove the point of the post — you admit that Bynum could learn to pass better. Darius does a fantastic job breaking that down in detail, the pros and the cons. But sadly you can barely get past the nickname to get to the meat of the post. You miss the point.

This is a blog and the style of it is not changing.

]]> By: Kaveh http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-2/#comment-640254 Kaveh Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:12:54 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640254 This post was ridiculous in my opinion. don't get me wrong, I agree with a some of its actual message. But the entire "some people have begun calling him the black hole" business is such lazy journalism. The truth is WHO is calling him the black hole other than you and your friends? It reminds me of what some political journalists do when they want to take the coward's route. They say, (implied) I'm not saying this, (said) but SOME people say that you are a scumbag. They are too cowardly of course to say that "I am saying you are a scumbag" and instead say "some people say that you are a scumbag." It is too funny. Forget the fact that i've never heard people refer to Bynum as the "black hole" except for some people on this website. Forget the fact that it is NOT a correct and legit insult. The cowardice not to take it on your own shoulders and say it yourself is what gets me. Who cares if a couple obscure people are calling Bynum the black hole? Should I write a similar article saying that "some people are calling Magic Johnson racist?" Are people calling Magic racist? I'm surely not, most people definitely not, but i can find some nuts somewhere in the world calling him racist even if they have nothing to support their claims. It would be cowardly of me to write something about Magic Johnson and say: "some people call him racist, will Magic be able to shed this monikor?" As for the question of whether this insult is deserved, I completely disagree. Bynum is one of the most efficient players in basketball. Yet he is only averaging 17 points per game. This alone makes the insult irrational. How can one be a "black hole" if they are a starter who plays 34 minutes per game on average, is one of the most efficient players in basketball, yet only scores 17.4 points per game? The numbers simply do not ADD up. The parts of the post i do agree with is that Bynum does need to become a better passer. He is an average passer in my opinion, but he can become a GREAT passer. Especially when playing with Gasol. Also, I believe that we should not want Bynum to emulate Gasol perfectly. I think that Gasol, while the best big man in basketball, is NOT perfect. One of his imperfections is that he passes the ball TOO MUCH. Yes, Pau Gasol MUST BE MORE SELFISH! This is one of his downfalls. He would be much more positive for the team if he WAS more selfish. Not to mention that Gasol and Bynum are different players. Even if Gasol had the perfect blend of selfishness/passing, we would want Bynum to be more selfish. Why? Because Bynum has a much higher ceiling in regards to scoring near the basket. Yes, i believe that Bynum will be a BETTER scorer, if he isn't already, than Gasol. The author said that Bynum was close. I disagree. The numbers show that Bynum is equal to if not better than Gasol at scoring near the basket. This post was ridiculous in my opinion. don’t get me wrong, I agree with a some of its actual message. But the entire “some people have begun calling him the black hole” business is such lazy journalism. The truth is WHO is calling him the black hole other than you and your friends?

It reminds me of what some political journalists do when they want to take the coward’s route. They say, (implied) I’m not saying this, (said) but SOME people say that you are a scumbag. They are too cowardly of course to say that “I am saying you are a scumbag” and instead say “some people say that you are a scumbag.” It is too funny.

Forget the fact that i’ve never heard people refer to Bynum as the “black hole” except for some people on this website. Forget the fact that it is NOT a correct and legit insult. The cowardice not to take it on your own shoulders and say it yourself is what gets me.

Who cares if a couple obscure people are calling Bynum the black hole? Should I write a similar article saying that “some people are calling Magic Johnson racist?” Are people calling Magic racist? I’m surely not, most people definitely not, but i can find some nuts somewhere in the world calling him racist even if they have nothing to support their claims. It would be cowardly of me to write something about Magic Johnson and say: “some people call him racist, will Magic be able to shed this monikor?”

As for the question of whether this insult is deserved, I completely disagree. Bynum is one of the most efficient players in basketball. Yet he is only averaging 17 points per game. This alone makes the insult irrational. How can one be a “black hole” if they are a starter who plays 34 minutes per game on average, is one of the most efficient players in basketball, yet only scores 17.4 points per game? The numbers simply do not ADD up.

The parts of the post i do agree with is that Bynum does need to become a better passer. He is an average passer in my opinion, but he can become a GREAT passer. Especially when playing with Gasol.

Also, I believe that we should not want Bynum to emulate Gasol perfectly. I think that Gasol, while the best big man in basketball, is NOT perfect. One of his imperfections is that he passes the ball TOO MUCH. Yes, Pau Gasol MUST BE MORE SELFISH! This is one of his downfalls. He would be much more positive for the team if he WAS more selfish.

Not to mention that Gasol and Bynum are different players. Even if Gasol had the perfect blend of selfishness/passing, we would want Bynum to be more selfish. Why? Because Bynum has a much higher ceiling in regards to scoring near the basket. Yes, i believe that Bynum will be a BETTER scorer, if he isn’t already, than Gasol. The author said that Bynum was close. I disagree. The numbers show that Bynum is equal to if not better than Gasol at scoring near the basket.

]]> By: food guy http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-1/#comment-640251 food guy Tue, 15 Dec 2009 01:22:47 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640251 #52 ... the difference between kobe-pau-pj and kobe-shaq-pj is that all three of them are adults. #52 … the difference between kobe-pau-pj and kobe-shaq-pj is that all three of them are adults.

]]> By: Dunk Specialist http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/13/the-black-hole/comment-page-1/#comment-640250 Dunk Specialist Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:26:21 +0000 http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=2247#comment-640250 Having read what everyone wrote I think I have to agree with everyone. Really good stuff. Just wanted to add this because it isn't getting mentioned enough, but Bynum is 22 years old with a big contract. From my understanding he feels like he needs to earn it so people don't think of him as a bust (I can remember a lot of people saying they should have traded him and his big contract over the summer). I think people make the biggest deal over scoring so he feels like he is proving to the fans he is worth the money when he scores big. Let's be honest, if he scores 20 points it is a bigger deal to most fans (especially casual fans which make up most of the people and most of the people that probably talk to Bynum) than it is if he scores 14 and has 4 assist. I think that and the fact that he so badly wants to be an all star is affecting his game. I personally think after the all star break (assuming he gets there) Bynum will pass more and do whatever it takes to win the championship (because every player knows that is the biggest factor in their legacy). Having read what everyone wrote I think I have to agree with everyone. Really good stuff. Just wanted to add this because it isn’t getting mentioned enough, but Bynum is 22 years old with a big contract. From my understanding he feels like he needs to earn it so people don’t think of him as a bust (I can remember a lot of people saying they should have traded him and his big contract over the summer). I think people make the biggest deal over scoring so he feels like he is proving to the fans he is worth the money when he scores big. Let’s be honest, if he scores 20 points it is a bigger deal to most fans (especially casual fans which make up most of the people and most of the people that probably talk to Bynum) than it is if he scores 14 and has 4 assist. I think that and the fact that he so badly wants to be an all star is affecting his game. I personally think after the all star break (assuming he gets there) Bynum will pass more and do whatever it takes to win the championship (because every player knows that is the biggest factor in their legacy).

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