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	<title>Comments on: Around the World (Wide Web): More Bynum and Less Farmar, Brown</title>
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	<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/</link>
	<description>A Lakers Blog. Thoughts, reflections, and the odd rant on the Los Angeles Lakers and the NBA (even the Clippers).</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 23:58:08 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Zephid</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656990</link>
		<dc:creator>Zephid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656990</guid>
		<description>11, Please clarify, I don&#039;t see the point you&#039;re trying to make.

19, Out of all of our 5-man lineups, only 11 have more than 55 minutes to their name.  Of those 11, the best lineup in terms of win% is

6.) Fisher-Brown-Artest-Odom-Gasol 85.3 +46 83.3%

The second best is #4 above, 

4.) Farmar-Brown-Bryant-Odom-Gasol 141.4 +35 70.8%

The worst is 

5.) Farmar-Brown-Bryant-Odom-Bynum 126.7 -25 36.6%

Unless you&#039;re of the belief that Andrew Bynum is a much, much worse player than Pau Gasol, it would seem that #5 would be a cause for concern with the high score of #4.  Admittedly, 4 seems like statistically our best lineup.  But such a drop-off between that lineup&#039;s production and the lineup replacing Gasol with Bynum makes it seem like there is something going on beyond the fact that Farmar and Brown are simply more productive than Fisher and Artest.

Also, none of our top 20 lineups contain one of either Farmar or Brown then the 4 other starters, so your statement that Farmar and Brown playing with the starters is statistically our best unit is not evidenced.  Even if we could find that data, they have less than 23 minutes on the floor together, so there is sample size issues.  

My point was that Farmar and Brown aren&#039;t playing poorly because they&#039;re stuck playing with scrubs; they&#039;re playing with the same guys that Fisher is playing with.  The only difference is they&#039;re playing with each other.

All my data comes from 82games.com  Check it out for yourself.

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910LAL2.HTM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>11, Please clarify, I don&#8217;t see the point you&#8217;re trying to make.</p>
<p>19, Out of all of our 5-man lineups, only 11 have more than 55 minutes to their name.  Of those 11, the best lineup in terms of win% is</p>
<p>6.) Fisher-Brown-Artest-Odom-Gasol 85.3 +46 83.3%</p>
<p>The second best is #4 above, </p>
<p>4.) Farmar-Brown-Bryant-Odom-Gasol 141.4 +35 70.8%</p>
<p>The worst is </p>
<p>5.) Farmar-Brown-Bryant-Odom-Bynum 126.7 -25 36.6%</p>
<p>Unless you&#8217;re of the belief that Andrew Bynum is a much, much worse player than Pau Gasol, it would seem that #5 would be a cause for concern with the high score of #4.  Admittedly, 4 seems like statistically our best lineup.  But such a drop-off between that lineup&#8217;s production and the lineup replacing Gasol with Bynum makes it seem like there is something going on beyond the fact that Farmar and Brown are simply more productive than Fisher and Artest.</p>
<p>Also, none of our top 20 lineups contain one of either Farmar or Brown then the 4 other starters, so your statement that Farmar and Brown playing with the starters is statistically our best unit is not evidenced.  Even if we could find that data, they have less than 23 minutes on the floor together, so there is sample size issues.  </p>
<p>My point was that Farmar and Brown aren&#8217;t playing poorly because they&#8217;re stuck playing with scrubs; they&#8217;re playing with the same guys that Fisher is playing with.  The only difference is they&#8217;re playing with each other.</p>
<p>All my data comes from 82games.com  Check it out for yourself.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.82games.com/0910/0910LAL2.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.82games.com/0910/0910LAL2.HTM</a></p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656958</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656958</guid>
		<description>Zephid,
Because the Lakers two best lineups this year statistically have been with Fisher off the floor and Farmar or Brown on it.  Hey... maybe that is because Phil only plays Farmar with the starters against bad teams... there are ways to argue that data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zephid,<br />
Because the Lakers two best lineups this year statistically have been with Fisher off the floor and Farmar or Brown on it.  Hey&#8230; maybe that is because Phil only plays Farmar with the starters against bad teams&#8230; there are ways to argue that data.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix F. Fowler jr.</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656957</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix F. Fowler jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656957</guid>
		<description>The key to the Lakers sucess is Lamar Odem.  The big if is, If  was the coach my starting lineup would be Bynum as center,  Gasol Pf, Ron at smf, kobe at shooting gaurd and Lamar Odem at the
point.  First and third quarter, Odem would run my offence.  I would also put
Magic back to work with Lamar going over all of Magics game films to show him how Magic he broke down defences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key to the Lakers sucess is Lamar Odem.  The big if is, If  was the coach my starting lineup would be Bynum as center,  Gasol Pf, Ron at smf, kobe at shooting gaurd and Lamar Odem at the<br />
point.  First and third quarter, Odem would run my offence.  I would also put<br />
Magic back to work with Lamar going over all of Magics game films to show him how Magic he broke down defences.</p>
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		<title>By: tsuwm</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656954</link>
		<dc:creator>tsuwm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656954</guid>
		<description>tsuwm&#039;s writing tips, #1 (not meant to be ridicule, but in the interests of better writing)

&gt;while allowing Tyreke Evans to run ramped.

I think that the word wanted here is &#039;rampant&#039;, as in unrestrained or unchecked - Evans ran rampant around the unorganized Laker defense.

(this may be an example of an &#039;eggcorn&#039;, where the sound-alike word substitution almost makes sense.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tsuwm&#8217;s writing tips, #1 (not meant to be ridicule, but in the interests of better writing)</p>
<p>&gt;while allowing Tyreke Evans to run ramped.</p>
<p>I think that the word wanted here is &#8216;rampant&#8217;, as in unrestrained or unchecked &#8211; Evans ran rampant around the unorganized Laker defense.</p>
<p>(this may be an example of an &#8216;eggcorn&#8217;, where the sound-alike word substitution almost makes sense.)</p>
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		<title>By: pb</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656953</link>
		<dc:creator>pb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656953</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s very clear to me that ShanWow should not be the ballhandler or a decision maker. He needs to play more like how Ariza used to play. Defend, shoot 3s, and make hard cuts. He just doesn&#039;t have the handles or passes well to be the initiator in this offense, or even the post feeder.

Farmar does a better job as the ballhandler, but he over dribbles way too much. Both of these guys have different agenda as they are fighting for the next contract. An average starting PG in the league makes anywhere from 5-8 million a year. A back up makes about 2-4. Both Farmar and Brown are looking for that lucrative second contract of their career. This is the time when they need to make big bucks. They know that the only way to do it is to show that they have the ability to start. Unlike Ariza who excelled by playing his role very well, these guys are really hurting their chances of getting that fat contract by playing out of their roles.

I wish Farmar would realize that he can get a &quot;good&quot; contract from the Lakers (in the 3-4 million range) if he just plays within the system. There&#039;s no way anyone&#039;s going to pay him 5 million or more in this economy. I guess we&#039;ll just have to bring in a veteran guy who&#039;ll be happy to earn 3 million and be a part of a championship team next year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s very clear to me that ShanWow should not be the ballhandler or a decision maker. He needs to play more like how Ariza used to play. Defend, shoot 3s, and make hard cuts. He just doesn&#8217;t have the handles or passes well to be the initiator in this offense, or even the post feeder.</p>
<p>Farmar does a better job as the ballhandler, but he over dribbles way too much. Both of these guys have different agenda as they are fighting for the next contract. An average starting PG in the league makes anywhere from 5-8 million a year. A back up makes about 2-4. Both Farmar and Brown are looking for that lucrative second contract of their career. This is the time when they need to make big bucks. They know that the only way to do it is to show that they have the ability to start. Unlike Ariza who excelled by playing his role very well, these guys are really hurting their chances of getting that fat contract by playing out of their roles.</p>
<p>I wish Farmar would realize that he can get a &#8220;good&#8221; contract from the Lakers (in the 3-4 million range) if he just plays within the system. There&#8217;s no way anyone&#8217;s going to pay him 5 million or more in this economy. I guess we&#8217;ll just have to bring in a veteran guy who&#8217;ll be happy to earn 3 million and be a part of a championship team next year.</p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656952</link>
		<dc:creator>Darius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656952</guid>
		<description>New post is up.  Some fast break thoughts.

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/fast-break-thoughts-61/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New post is up.  Some fast break thoughts.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/fast-break-thoughts-61/" rel="nofollow">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/fast-break-thoughts-61/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris J</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656951</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656951</guid>
		<description>thisisweaksauce -- Apparently, a lot of people, based on what&#039;s been written here over and over again.

I get that AB has faults, but he&#039;s 22 and the play level is already more than solid, with tons of upside.

If he played on another team, he&#039;d already be a 22-10 guy easily. The Lakers don&#039;t need him to do that now, but someday they wll. Maybe sooner than any of us would prefer -- Kobe won&#039;t be here forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thisisweaksauce &#8212; Apparently, a lot of people, based on what&#8217;s been written here over and over again.</p>
<p>I get that AB has faults, but he&#8217;s 22 and the play level is already more than solid, with tons of upside.</p>
<p>If he played on another team, he&#8217;d already be a 22-10 guy easily. The Lakers don&#8217;t need him to do that now, but someday they wll. Maybe sooner than any of us would prefer &#8212; Kobe won&#8217;t be here forever.</p>
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		<title>By: thisisweaksauce</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656950</link>
		<dc:creator>thisisweaksauce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656950</guid>
		<description>Chris (11),

Seriously. All the talk about trading Bynum was unbelievable. When he&#039;s going... oh man. If he keeps this up in the playoffs and helps us repeat, we shouldn&#039;t hear anything like that again. Who would trade the possible future of the franchise?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris (11),</p>
<p>Seriously. All the talk about trading Bynum was unbelievable. When he&#8217;s going&#8230; oh man. If he keeps this up in the playoffs and helps us repeat, we shouldn&#8217;t hear anything like that again. Who would trade the possible future of the franchise?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris J</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656945</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656945</guid>
		<description>Joey Jo-Jo  -- I appreciated your comment. I&#039;ve never worn green, on St. Patrick&#039;s Day or ever, because I hate the Celtics so much. And I&#039;m Irish, no less. Glad to hear other Laker fans share that outlook.

As for the winning streak, the one question no one has been able to answer all season is what the players will do when the games really, really start to matter.

These guys have played as far into the playoffs as is possible the past two seasons. They know what matters and what&#039;s less important, and no one but the Lakers themselves has any insight into their mental and physical approach to a very long season.

As fans we&#039;d love to see them give 100 percent event night. But they&#039;re men, and men get tired or find it hard to be motivated against a crap team in November or January. It&#039;s human nature.

Now&#039;s the time when they can no longer afford to have that relaxed outlook. If they continue to build on this streak - not always wins, but playing well -- it&#039;s a good sign that things are coming together at the right time. They know what has to be done; let&#039;s see them go out and do it.

Oh, and where did all of the &quot;Trade Bynum&quot; crowd go?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey Jo-Jo  &#8212; I appreciated your comment. I&#8217;ve never worn green, on St. Patrick&#8217;s Day or ever, because I hate the Celtics so much. And I&#8217;m Irish, no less. Glad to hear other Laker fans share that outlook.</p>
<p>As for the winning streak, the one question no one has been able to answer all season is what the players will do when the games really, really start to matter.</p>
<p>These guys have played as far into the playoffs as is possible the past two seasons. They know what matters and what&#8217;s less important, and no one but the Lakers themselves has any insight into their mental and physical approach to a very long season.</p>
<p>As fans we&#8217;d love to see them give 100 percent event night. But they&#8217;re men, and men get tired or find it hard to be motivated against a crap team in November or January. It&#8217;s human nature.</p>
<p>Now&#8217;s the time when they can no longer afford to have that relaxed outlook. If they continue to build on this streak &#8211; not always wins, but playing well &#8212; it&#8217;s a good sign that things are coming together at the right time. They know what has to be done; let&#8217;s see them go out and do it.</p>
<p>Oh, and where did all of the &#8220;Trade Bynum&#8221; crowd go?</p>
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		<title>By: wondahbap</title>
		<link>http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/03/17/around-the-world-wide-web-more-bynum-and-less-farmar-brown/comment-page-1/#comment-656943</link>
		<dc:creator>wondahbap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.forumblueandgold.com/?p=3283#comment-656943</guid>
		<description>Zephid,

&quot;Instead, we should be asking &#039;why do Jordan Farmar and Shannon Brown play so poorly together?&#039; &quot;

Because there&#039;s only one basketball.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zephid,</p>
<p>&#8220;Instead, we should be asking &#8216;why do Jordan Farmar and Shannon Brown play so poorly together?&#8217; &#8221;</p>
<p>Because there&#8217;s only one basketball.</p>
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