After a season of touting the Lakers bench and depth, Sunday was a night the Lakers starters reminded us they can play, too. All five Lakers starters shot at least 53% true shooting percentage (which includes threes and free throws). All five Lakers starters were +22 or higher for the night, every bench player was in the negative. It was the starters who had the team up by 20 in the third, it was the bench that gave it back, and it was the 16-0 run in the fourth the Lakers had when the starters were forced to come back on the court that sealed the game.
Let’s look at that last 16-0 run to break down what the starters were doing right. When they were on the floor the Lakers offense was moving the ball well, pushing the tempo to create favorable matchups and Kobe used the attention he attracted after a couple threes to set up Fisher for good looks. The Lakers also played solid defense (plus caught a couple breaks).
We pick up the action as the Pacers had just cut the lead to 7 with a wide-open Dunleavy three (you can’t give him those) so Phil called a time out and put all five starters back in.
6:16 left, Lakers 92-85. The Lakers have a possession where the two-man weak-side game (with Odom handing the ball off to Fisher driving the lane) gave Fisher the chance for a little floater layup over a charging O’Neal, but he missed it. The Lakers then catch a break — Travis Diener blows by Fisher easily on a high pick and gets deep into the paint where approximately eight Lakers collapsed on him (three guys came off the bench just to try to block the shot). Diener kicked out to Dunleavy for a wide-open three. But this time he misses.
The Lakers push the ball back fast, not allowing the defense to get set, and in the rush Troy Murphy has to pick up Kobe. Fish recognizes this and gives Kobe the ball plus sets a little screen, which Kobe uses to drive to about the free-throw line then hits a little fade-away that Murphy can’t touch. Shooter’s roll.
5:32, Lakers 94-85. Murphy has the ball out at the top of the three-point line, Dunleavy comes out to get it, steps behind Murphy as a screen and takes a shot from three-feet behind the arc. It comes up short. He’s hot but that’s still not a good choice.
Kobe has the ball out top (at the same place Murphy did on the other end), Bynum comes out and sets a pick, Marquis Daniels is slow getting over the top of it and O’Neal (who had Bynum) never came out past the free throw line giving Kobe an open 21-footer, Which he nails. It was bad pick-and-roll defense at a key part of the game. Maybe giving Kobe open looks is not a good defensive strategy.
5:10, Lakers 96-85. The Pacers run their offense and work it around to O’Neal on the left block against Bynum. He backs Bynum down then makes a quick spin move into the center of the lane that Walton is late reacting to, but rather than shoot O’Neal kicks it out to a wide-open Diener for a corner three, but the Pacers have gone cold. Which frankly was a key part of the win — the Pacers had some good looks late and just missed them.
On the other end Kobe gets the ball on the wing and is thinking heat check all the way — the Pacers go with an interesting defense of Daniels alone on Kobe on the wing but two guys are stacked up behind Daniels, in case Kobe gets by him. Kobe shoots over the top of the stack but is short and now the Pacers are off and running. Diener tries a lob in transition to Dunleavy, who it turns out is not as athletic as Iguodala, so it’s a turnover.
Kobe pushes the ball up himself and starts to drive the lane drawing four Pacers defenders to him — then the kick out pass to an open Fisher in the corner. Joel Meyers is doing a poor man’s Marv Albert — “Yes!â€
4:18, Lakers 99-85. The Lakers smell the blood is in the water now, so they step up the defensive pressure. Bynum does a great job stepping out on the pick-and-roll to deny Daniels any lane, the result is a pass to Diener for a contested 17-footer that falls short.
Odom got the rebound, pushes the ball himself and tries to go coast-to-coast but is fouled in the act. He sinks both.
4:00, Lakers 101-85. Pacers coach Jim O’Brien pays homage to Phil Jackson by not calling a time out when the Lakers are on a 7-0 run.
Instead they again get the ball into O’Neal, who kicks out to Diener at the three, quick pass to Granger for a three where Walton was running at him. Granger missed, and Walton just kept running and Fisher gets the outlet and hits Walton with a pass from half court. Walton is fouled in the act, and hits one of two.
3:43, Lakers 102- 85. Granger gets the high screen from O’Neal and drives the lane, but Bynum has stayed back and forces Granger to stop, then make a pass to Dunleavy who is cutting baseline. But this is where Bynum’s length comes in — he was able to recover off Granger and block Dunleavy’s shot. The Lakers grabbed the ball and raced up court, but Odom lost control and traveled.
And that brings us to the SportsCenter highlight. Kobe has the ball out at the three-point line on the wing, Bynum comes out and sets the pick and Kobe goes left to the top of he key while Bynum rolls to the basket. The defensive rotations the Pacers have means Diener leaves Fisher to try to pick up Bynum in the block. Kobe sees Fisher’s man leaves him so Kobe goes wit the behind-the-back bounce pass to a wide-open Fisher for a three.
O’Brien thinks this is a good time for a timeout.
2:53, Lakers 105-85. Ike Diago forgets to dribble while posting up on Odom, and it’s a traveling turnover.
Kobe gets the ball on the right wing and without a pick drives to the free-throw line and sees Fisher cutting to that left corner for the three, and hits him with a tight pass and Fisher goes up for the pretty rainbow three.
And that’s about all that mattered.
JoeM says
Kurt, why not do a play by play of how the second team gave
up the big lead. My recollection was that Kwame had a string
of turnovers and bad decisions.
Kurt says
I thought about it, but for all the second units mistakes that was still a Laker win. So I went with the good part.
Kwame has limitations, mental and physical, but I’m just not up for picking him apart because of them right now. With the emergence of Bynum we don’t need him to be anything more than a reasonable backup. I’d try to trade him, but if nothing comes of it I’m good with resigning him at $3,5-$4 mil a year for a couple years. I think with Kwame, if he were drafted middle of the first round (like he should have been) or was making $5 mil a year, nobody would care much. But for some reason we still seem to expect more from him.
exhelodrvr says
“But for some reason we still seem to expect more from him”
Expecting him to catch and dunk would happen even if were getting the veterans’ minimum.
Ryan O says
3. Absolutely. The term “Kwame-hands” has become a regular part of my basketball vernacular, and that’s not a good thing.
On a different topic, I know this isn’t a point that has really eluded anybody, but last night was a great reminder of how refreshing it is to have a shooter like Fish on the team whom Kobe trusts implicitly. Those drive-and-kicks Kobe used to get Fisher open 3’s would have undoubtedly been drive-and-hoist-awkward-floater-in-traffic plays had Smush been standing there instead, especially considering it was the fourth quarter with the Pacers threatening a comeback. Just a totally different dynamic than last year. It makes that first game of the season against Houston seem like so long ago.
Daniel says
Kwame is a player with clear genetic flaws that the Lakers knew coming into this entire deal. Small hands don’t allow him to grip the ball as well. I think the only way Kwame can finally get on track the way he needs to is if he takes control of his game the way he clearly has with Bynum. Kwame needs some fire under him to get him going hard and inspire him to work his butt off, in comes Kobe and tells him if he doesn’t start doing some tough work he’s going to get traded to the Kings and get beat up by the Lakers four times a year… (just wishful thinking i guess) LOL
UCSBShaw says
This is the beauty of the 07-08 Lakers we are not one dimensional. We don’t rely on just one player to do it all, cough*KOBE*cough, or just even the starters. We can count how many times the bench has played a vital role in the W. I get excited when I see Farmar enter the game or Ariza or Turiaf off the bench(Turiaf is still fun to watch when he’s on the bench). Last year injuries hurt us big but I have a hard time seeing if we got hit with the same injury bug that we got hit last year that it would have the same affect on us. We are just that deep.
On a seperate note Bill Plaschke showed a little love to much battered Kupchak. He does deserve some credit for drafting the players that he has drafted and not making certain moves when most thought should be made. All I can say, it’s good to be a Lakers fan….
PS-thanks for the comments on my youtube video, all hail Forumblueandgold
Kurt says
I think expecting Kwame to consistently cach the ball in traffic or to take other steps forward with his game is expecting too much — this guy has never shown much fire to improve. His game is getting worse, not better, but he still has a few useful physical tools (big body for defense). He can do a few things. But all the anecdotal evidence out of locker room reports and Phil Jackson’s comments is that Kwame is not a guy with a strong work ethic. What you see now is what you get.
Jason says
3 – You’re right, it would be nice if he could. But he can’t, and he’s not going to develop good hands. And actually this year, it doesn’t seem like the Laker offense should need to depend on him for a single point. Now I’m as frustrated as the next guy when he bobbles the ball around like he’s got his shoes on his hands, but as long as he keeps defending the way he’s defending, he’s useful.
George says
Solid W in my book, although I’m anxiously awaiting the day when there will be a Picture in Picture with Turiaf’s dance moves from the bench as the action goes on…
fanerman says
Kobe seems to pass more to Fisher than to other teammates. It seems clear that Kobe trusts Fisher a lot (and a lot more than other guys on the team). Maybe it’s just me. Or maybe Fisher just knows how to get open when Kobe gets double-teamed. But (anecdotally), Fish sure seems to hit a lot of shots resulting from Kobe kick-outs.
Hebisner says
I thought this win was a testament to the improvment of the Lakers this year. This was a game that they would have normally lost last season. In the past, without Bynum to pick up the scoring slack and Fish to mantain calm and hit key shots, the Lakers would have lost a game like this. Kobe would have had to score 50 in the past to win this game. Now, he can drive and dish to other players for open looks instead of killing himself to drive the lane with 4 guys on him and hit an impossible shot.
Lamar also played pretty well last night. His scoring has been problematic, but his rebounding has been very good.
Darius says
Kwame is so interesting to me. He was a #1 overall pick, with all the potential in the world to be a force. Size, athleticism, some smarts (don’t laugh, he’s really not dumb)…he just needed to be guided in the right direction. We all know that MJ and the Wizzards crushed his confidence though, and it has been downhill ever since.
What kills me the most, though, is how he underachieves in whatever you ask him to be. This is why Kurt can honestly say that he is getting worse. The Wiz wanted him to be the dominant big, worthy of the #1 pick. Did not happen. We have asked him to be a rebounding/defensive force (which he does well, but…) with just some competency on offense and he can’t do that at a high level either. How good would we be if Kwame followed the same career arc as Tyson Chandler? We’d be contenders, FOR REAL.
Anyways, like Kurt said, Kwame is a guy that we know all about. He is still useful, as any 6’11”, 270lb. guy who is athletic and strong is useful. A lot of teams need a guy like that to do the stuff guys his size do (take up space, rebound, alter shots). And a couple more years of him at 4-5 mil per would be nice. He’s young, knows our system, and isn’t a waste of a player like Jerome James, or someone like that. I’m just happy that Bynum has developed in a way that Kwame seems expendable. But we will need him, at some point, down the road. The West has too many teams that can score inside, to let one of our better interior defenders leave without replacing what he does. I’m just glad we don’t depend on him for anything more than a big body.
kc says
last night’s game was pleasant for me after taking kurt’s approach to watching lamar. with no expectation (well, nothing more than i would give when rad has the ball), watching lamar play was actually tolerable and acceptable.
that’s actually the approach i’ve taken with kwame. of course if he gets the ball in the low post and/or in the position to score, then i’d expect him to, but at the same time, i won’t be disappointed if he turns it over or does not score.
Renato Afonso says
Again, the problem seems to be his salary, like Odom.
If Odom was in the 8-9mil range and Kwame in the 5-6mil range, maybe we wouldn’t be so demanding…
Question is, if they were receiving less for they play, would we consider trading any of them? (Not talking about any trade speculation, just an honest question)
Davey says
I hate to say it, but when everyone was so excited about the bench at the beginning of the year, Bynum was on the bench. Everyone was so wowed by the Bench. Now, gee, the starters are good too. But now, Bynum’s a starter. I think that there is a connection here.
The guy formerly known as Lamar Odom says
the complaints we have regarding Kwame and Odom don’t have to do with their salaries, although they ARE a problem as well. The problems are the Kwame makes too many unforced turnovers and that Lamar shoots ill-adviced shots sometimes. They are also under-achievers, and they appear to be comfortable with that. You’ll never see Ronny smile after messing up. He’s not ok with that. Lamar and Kwame are frustrating. When Odom is on, he’s on and very likable. Just stop shooting those long range 3’s and take it to the whole like no one else your size can. He needs to become disciplined. Kwame…………he just needs to acquire bigger hands, and that’s not possible. Let’s give McHale a call, or maybe Thomas. I hear they’re both suckers.
Kurt says
1. At lunch the restaurant I was at had a screen reshowing the Lakers/Pacers game, and I caught the fourth quarter. Yes, Kwame had a couple bad plays. But a second watching showed that Crit had a very tough game as well, trying to create to much on his own in the two spot (with Sasha out). He had (by my count) three turnovers, he gambled a lot on defense (which led to a steal but also a couple mistakes that led to Daniels baskets) and his shot was not falling from outside. Overall, the Laker subs did not run the offense, something they have done well in the past.
I think having Sasha back will help, but let’s hope that was just an off night for the subs.
Craig W. says
I want to follow up what Kurt said about Kwame’s play last night. It was acceptable. Actually I really liked that he at least tried to turn and score several times. He hasn’t done that in the past and it is what we all were asking of him. Since it was the first time he really tried to force himself to the basket, it wasn’t too surprising that he made some mistakes. I will live with those if he just continues trying because I think he will get better if he is willing to try things out in the game. Sort of like we want Andrew to try out the sky hook because he has to probably fail a bit before he succeeds.
Kwame has been our punching bag so long we forget he is a person – just like the rest of us.
jt says
Although Kwame had a terrible game, im glad to see him a little more aggressive. I will only tolerate his offensive attacks if he maintains what he does on defense. I use to hate seeing him struggle offensively as a starter. But as a bench player, thats what we ultimately need for him to do (as oppose to doing what he did as a starter which was all defense)
That’s not to question the offensive ability of the 2nd unit but scoring on the inside will balance the 2nd unit shooters of farmar vlad sasha etc.
I also heard Rambis mention that Kwame’s problem is all mental. According to him he sees the game too fast and needs to settle down. Rambis acknowledges that Kwame is quick and strong and all that, but confidence is keeping him from doing well offensively.
anoni says
my suggestion: have fisher come off the bench
Honestly, I think it’s the spark we need. Farmar seems to play better with bynum on the floor. fisher would be a good spark off the bench to boost the bench. I would like to see crittenton become a playmaker and run the bench mob.
maybe im wrong, but i don’t think ive seen phil try a backcourt of crittenton and fisher…i think it would work in certain situations.
as kurt mentioned, i think crittenton is trying to do too much at the 2.
Jorruline says
It’s a misconception that Kwame has small hands. Actually, his hands are average for someone his height. What contributes to his butterfingers is the fact that he’s had 3 knuckles crushed on one hand. A couple happened in high school, and one happened with the wizards, both injuries occurred due to punches. Ever since then, his hands haven’t been the same.
chris says
I agree with the points above that Kwame is trying to do things TOO fast. I think this is because he’s not good at free throws and he doesn’t want to go there and be embarrassed. he needs to take a deep breath before the O starts, and try to slow down a bit down there.
the other stephen says
maybe if we get the entire Laker fan base to sign a giant post card tellng Kwame to bust his ass and practice more, he’ll listen. or perhaps we should resurrect the getgarnett website and remodel it into getkwametoworkonhisweakgame. catch a bit of media breeze, and sail that way to a gigantic united fiery front under kwame’s backside.
Mhunt says
10 – What I loved, especially watching the replays…that final behind-the-back pass to Fisher for the 3 started *before* Fisher was into position; Fish didn’t get to his spot until the ball was already in the air. Kobe just knows exactly where he’s going to be, and threw the pass with full confidence that Fish would be there.
That’s something you can’t teach, just pure years of experience and playing together. Hopefully the Farmar/Bynum/Ariza trio will develop that sixth sense over the next few years.
Warren Wee Lim says
formerly Lamar, you have got to get a new nickname bro. LOL.
Kwame Brown earning 9M IS the problem with Kwame. He was a #1 pick which expectations were so high already and he was considered a bust. Still is, at #1 but what makes him more of a bust is the 9M. If he were earning 3-4m, well, he would be considered a decent signing. at 1-2m, a steal.
Lamar Odom, in all the expectations we put in him, his 13m is partly to blame. No one would be complaining if this guy earned 8-9m even with the inconsistency of his game. In 2009, IMO, Lamar should consider re-signing for less or else I would be trading him in 2008.
We have a chance to do justice next year. We let Kwame expire with us and sign him thru his bird rights BUT for less money. IF this happened, we would have a little over 4m of savings (if we traded him for someone less useful) and we could use that money to re-up Ronny.
The problem with the Laker situation is that we cannot afford to trade our depth guys because that would almost mean we will struggle. The youngsters we have have shown they are still not ready for those hyped games (Boston) but is capable to be in due time (Bynum vs Phoenix).
If we have to talk about trades, our tradeable assets this year should have to be Sasha’s expiring, Chris Mihm (needs consent but I think he will accept) and Kwame’s expiring. The problem with Kwame is that, somehow, we actually need him to play, not just as an expiring.
TC says
This is what good teams do though-they pick up after one another-you all remember how the turn of the century Lakers did……you could always count on Kobe and Shaq but then usually a couple of bench guys would put an exclamation point on it. I’m trusting these Lakers, for obvious reasons not quite so much, but I look forward to Jordan, Sasha, Kwame, Trevor, Javaris, and Ronny (although really, Ronny on the bench is just better coz of his dances :). Sasha, Jordan, Trevor have had good years thus far and one sees glimpses of Javaris’ athleticism that are tantalizing, to say the least. I imagine a Monta Ellis/B. Davis blend. He is really going to be something special. And as for Kwame’s hands, he’s like a guy like Jarron or Jason Colins who are good defenders and really any O they give you is a plus. I’m glad to see Kwame doing well here. He got treated like crap by MJ in Washington and I’d hazard a guess he’s enjoying the comradery and the reasonable expectation that he knows how he’s going to be used and that Phil trusts him. Anyway, that’s my $.02.
The guy formerly known as Lamar Odom says
I really think we can get someone as decent as Kwame if we were to package a deal. Sorry, but I think Kwame is trouble. He’s had a couple of run-ins with the law (the cake and the rape charge-although the latter was dropped it can still cause a distraction) and I just don’t want to wait around for the next one. We might as well deal him now before his acts get big enough to make nobody want him. That and all the games he misses with all the injuries, his bad work ethic, and the simple task of not letting the ball slip out of your hands and not dunking the ball when you can and missing the easy lay-up (too many of those to count) overshadow his defensive skills. I’m sticking to that opinion.
Bryan says
some Laker thoughts (and how great is it that we’re talking about what we’re talking about, instead of gritting our teeth as we struggle through the season. This is a fun year to be a Laker fan again):
1) Bynum only getting first half points is a trend, last night night was not the exception, and I think this will be a problem come the playoffs if it continues. With last nights game, it felt like Kobe decided during the second half to “get his,” moving away from what worked in the first half. The only rationale I can think of for this is that Kobe gets to conserve his energy for the second half, allowing Bynum can focus on game-changing defense. I see merit to that, but wonder if we can trust Kobe’s competitive drive to drive him to win, or if he has to win while being the hero.
2) bench vs. starters. An excellent point was made above about Bynum being the key to praise received by each unit. We’re going through injuries from key players (Turiaf, Luke and Kwame bouncing back, Sasha and Vlade currently out), so all the lineup shuffling is necessary, and you’ll never get your ideal lineups and chemistry when having to move people in and out of the trainers room. All in all, Phil’s done a great job of this, and the players have really risen to the occassion.
Fisher should finish games. I dont care if he or Farmar starts, though I like what someone said about Farmar playing well with Bynum, so they should be in the same unit. What I would like to see on the bench is either Luke or Fisher in the lineup, to keep the offense playing smart. Jordan does a good job of this, as well, but you need more than one person to make the offense work.
Ariza should start. Playing with Bynum, Kobe, and Odom, he will be asked to play D first, second and thrid, with hitting open jumpers a distant 4th. This allows Luke/Vlade to be one of the offensive focuses of the center unit (along with the PG).
Critt, give him time, this year doesn’t count. He’ll have rookie nights, and he’ll have college-like highlight plays.
Kwame: how will he accept coming off the bench once he’s healthy? For now, he has no choice, since he’s still coming back from an injury. I just don’t see the guy as Mark Madsen on the sideline cheering his teammates, so I don’t know how he’ll respond to coming off the bench. What he does will determine if we resign him or not after this year. Sulk and you’re gone.
Turiaf: I miss him. But with Odom accepting a third fiddle role behind Bynum and Kobe, it’s freed him up to do all the rebounding and hustle-baskets that Ronny used to get. So for now, I don’t think we need him in the starting lineup.
I really should get back to work, can you tell I don’t want to? Was talking with a friend today about how if we get the 3rd/4th seed it means a match up with NO or Dallas in the first round: and we both hope it’s Dallas. CP3 gives us nightmares. Then we realized: we could be the 2 seed, there’s nothing written in stone that says Phoenix will finish better than us. Who knows who that matches us against: Utah, Houston, Portland, or Golden State. All winnable series.
Question: is there anyone in the West you DON’T think the Lakers could beat right now in a 7 game series?
Derek Banducci says
I’ve never bought in the small hands thing re Kwame. If smaller hands truly caused a person to be a poor ball handler then small guards would be poor ball handlers and big centers would be good ball handlers. Yet, small guards are typically better ball handlers than big centers. Therefore, whatever the reason for Kwame’s inability to catch an entry pass, it’s not the size of his hands.
Warren Wee Lim says
This is the part where I ask Kurt again to allow me the privilege…
Lakers 2-yr Finanacial Plan
================
by: Warren Wee Lim
Jeannie Buss just gave me a hint as to how the FO would be running the finances. Oh wait, Jimmy is on the basketball side. Let me rephrase my opening line to: “Allow me to be Mitch Kupchak for a moment…”
I have been staring endlessly at the Laker payroll, seeking to find a possible hint in what Mitch is doing. As he has said last spring, the luxury tax is something he and Dr Buss are conscious of. So don’t expect Mitch to do a Thomas-Dolan move anytime soon UNLESS some of these disgruntled stars play for free. That said, lets try to speculate as to how the summer of 2008 will look like.
Fact:
The Lakers have 14 players as of now, 10 of which are guaranteed contracts through 2008. 2 out of the 10 have player options (which I see them exercising) in Ariza and Mihm while the unemployed by July 1st status belongs to Sasha, Kwame, Coby and Ronny. Among the 4, Ronny is the easiest to assume to be re-upped. Kwame is being considered but a decision wil be arrived until after the trading deadline passes.
Assumption:
Marc Gasol has been playing very well in Europe. I think he deserves a crack at the roster next summer esp since he will earn the borderline minimum with only a partial guarantee. If he could play PF, then our future has just looked even brighter. 11 spots, spare 500k.
2008 pick for LA, if not traded, will be in the 20’s. Mitch has shown he has drafted very well in the past 3 years.
If this happened, the pick’s expected salary would be 1m. 12 spots, spare 1m.
After these 2 moves, I’d want to consider Ronny’s re-up in the 3m per range. Something like 10m / 3yrs would be fine and decent for both sides. 13 spots, spare 3m.
Kwame would be a good player to have at 3-4m. If he did sign for this less, I’m all for it. Sign him a 2-3yr deal. 14 spots, spare 4m.
Since this is the year where we could choose to use our bi-annual exception, perhaps deferring it to next year (2009) would be best.
Depending on how things look in the guard rotation, looks like Sun Yue will still remain in China. UNLESS we trade him, or sign him for the minimum again.
That’s 14 player without Sasha, Coby and Sun. How do we make em all fit?
exhelodrvr says
Kwame’s biggest problem is not the size of his hands.
1) He doesn’t get himself into proper position
2) He generally doesn’t “expect” a pass.
That seems like an inability (or unwillingness) to focus.
Kurt says
31. I think your last comment about focus is the center of all the Kwame issues.
JONESONTHENBA says
Ditto 31 and 32. With some guys it’s all about the mental. Imagine Kwame with Jordan Farmar’s focus and determination.
MS says
Totally off-topic. Could be the greatest commercial of all time though. NAY! The greatest video! Seriously, this is everyone i work out with.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7268572220055994796&q=nike+wheelchair&total=11&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Just watch.
Brian Tung says
exhelodrvr (31): It’s something like that, although I’m not *sure* it’s focus. He just seems totally incapable of reacting to anything unexpected on the court. He is nimble and able to make astonishingly fast moves on the post, but if the player anticipates it, he’s at a loss, and (unfortunately) if he finds himself wide open for a two-foot layup, he shoots it four feet. On defense, if there’s any kind of long rebound, he just seems lost when going for it.
So I don’t think Kwame is a good fit for the triangle, which is all about reacting to what the defense gives you. Not sure how the Lakers should handle that situation, but I suspect Kwame will continue to flounder, by and large, until he is put into a situation where he basically knows what is going to happen before it happens.
harold says
I’m fine with Kwame and Lamar doing what they do at the price we are paying. Sure they may be slightly overpaid, but if they were to test the market, I’m fairly sure that some other team is likely to outbid us for their services, so we’re really not overpaying them as much as we feel we are.
If only Kwame could be our enforcer… we need somebody whose mere presence is a physical threat to the other team, somebody who can and will dole out ‘good-hard-old-style-fouls’ to stop runs without calling time out. Then again, that may be asking even more than asking him to develop better hands.
Not that I would want that kind of play in my gym, but somebody wise enough to deliver well-timed fouls would be nice (like Horry last year).
DMo says
Kwame’s biggest problem is that he’s injury prone. Most of his other problems stem from that fact. He gets hurt a lot and heals slowly, which means that he often comes back a little earlier than he should. This results in him playing like a guy who is hurt, which drives us all crazy. Compounding this issue, is the fact that he is a rythem player, and it’s hard to get in a rythem when your season is a series of starts and fits. His hands are bad when he is out of sync; they are average when he is feeling it. During his rare periods of extended good health, Kwame grows confident and becomes a reasonably effective player (see the end of 2006).
As for the question about which W.C. teams would beat L.A. in a 7-game series right now…
A healthy San Antonio for sure. But they are the only team who I think would have a definitive edge in an early-January best of 7. The Hornets would be a tough matchup, but I think Phil would figure them out in a long series. Dallas is in the midst of an identity crisis and is susceptible to our slashers/finishers. Phoenix has no answer for Bynum and is highly suspect on defense. Utah has the tools, but not the chemistry (losing Fish didn’t help in that regard). Houston is a talented mess. The Warriors don’t have a deep enough rotation or the bulk inside to do more than force 6 games. Denver has some great players, but they haven’t gelled as a team yet… and I’m not convinced they ever will.
Samuel says
I like Brian’s evaluation of Kwame, harsh as it may be. Kwame’s got a great set of physical tools and an awful set of mental skills to go along with them. He doesn’t hustle most of the time and is very lackadaisical. He looks totally bewildered on the offensive side of the court with no touch around the basket and a pre-determined post move regardless of what defense is being played against him. Do not re-sign him!
Samy says
MS, I really enjoyed that video. Good find.
I am reserving judgement until the end of our long raoadtrip in Feb.
If we collect all but 2 or 3… we are contenders for the 2nd seed, otherwise we submit that spot to the Suns.
Kwame does not need to be invited back. You can almost always see the gears moving in his head, especially vs. the pacers in the 3rd or fourth when AB was about to check in – Kwame, as the announcer made clear, knew he was coming out and wanted to get his – so what does he do? he goes outside the offense, takes a highly contested shot, misses, and loses all his credibility as team player before the eyes of the second unit which he is supposed to anchor.
I hate guys like that and just because the staples crowd chanted KWAME, KWAME last year against the suns does not mean his # is hallowed in any way shape or form.
Emma says
GREAT IDEA GEORGE!! Someone suggest this to FSN and KCAL immediately. Instant ratings.
drrayeye says
The comments in this thread about Kwame show how spoiled and opinionated we can become. Compare the stats between Kwame and Javaris. Kwame, who had a workmanlike game getting back in the flow, and played his usual decent defense, and even bailed out the stagnant offense a bit–is picked on, while the Crit–who played like (whoops) with Smushian tendencies that almost single handedly brought the starters back on the floor in the fourth–is barely mentioned.
Maybe someone should show the Crit game films of the Smusher from last year?
Clearly, the Machine is missed. I’d say that VladRad is also missed, except Trevor completely trashed his advertised shooting maladies by hitting the only two three point shots he took! I thought Arisa wasn’t allowed to shoot those threes . ,. . . .
The fact is that the Lakers are becoming more diverse, anhd more and more role players are fitting in. At least for a night, Luke and Lamar had their chemistry back.
Let’s remember that we held Indiana to 96. That usually gets it done.
exhelodrvr says
drray,
“and even bailed out the stagnant offense a bit–is picked on”
He did not bail out the offense – 4 TOs in 13 minutes? The expectations of Kwame on offense are so low that if he makes a good play it is blown way out of proportion. Kwame’s defensive play has NEVER offset the negatives of his offense. The Lakers just haven’t had any other realistic options the past three years.
Bobby Smith says
“I’ve never bought in the small hands thing re Kwame. If smaller hands truly caused a person to be a poor ball handler then small guards would be poor ball handlers and big centers would be good ball handlers. Yet, small guards are typically better ball handlers than big centers. Therefore, whatever the reason for Kwame’s inability to catch an entry pass, it’s not the size of his hands.”
Guards spend infinitely more time practice ball handling, whereas big like Kwame hardly spend any time on it at all. Big hands are a major factor in basketball and to me it is clearly one of Kwame’s biggest weaknesses. One reason M.J. was so great was because of the size of his hands. In fact, I would argue that that is the primary reason Kobe shoots a much lower percentage than MJ and Lebron. Kobe has by far the smallest hands of the three and it makes it harder for him to do thing.
Kwame can’t catch and he can’t control the ball because his hands are so small. Of course, Kwame has many many other things wrong with his game as well.
Craig W. says
drrayeye,
Very, very good points. We, as the quintessential Laker fans, must do a better job of objectively looking at the games we watch, not take the ‘talking head’s’ evaluation of the games. We are down on Kwame and Vlade so nothing they do makes us happy (we are looking for failure) – this is like Sasha last year. Now Crit, that is another story, we are waiting for him to succeed and we don’t really see (or we excuse) his mistakes and concentrate on what we think he can be.
This is a team of what is, not what may be. I think next year is really going to be exciting, but that is not our conversation this year. Leave it up to Phil to give Crit the necessary minutes – I think he has earned that confidence – and let’s try to talk about the good things Kwame does while in there. I know, some games that isn’t much, but if we try we may actually understand why Phil continually puts him into games.
drrayeye says
(42) You didn’t say a word about Crit. Kwame was 3 for 5 and was fouled twice more as he went to score. That was in 12 minutes. Kwame’s not supposed to score. Crit was 0 for 1and had 3 turnover. He WAS supposed to score.
The TO’s for Kwame happened because nobody was cutting and he was stranded. The TO’s for Crit happened because “the mustard came off the hotdog.”
A-Hole Carolla says
What happened to all that Kwame love that was going on here while he was injured?
Jason says
The Kwame hate has reached laughable levels. To think that Kwame is that bad is really to doubt Phil Jackson’s ability to evaulate a players’ on-court contribution.
Cary D says
“He was what i thought he was….” We know what to expect with Kwame. He provides us with depth and a strong defensive option. When helathy, his confidence blossoms. It just takes some time. Have we forgotten how well he played in the 7 game series against PHX a few years ago? He has a skillset and he should be the least of our worries from now till end of season. I like having him on our team. He bodies the big forwards and centers as well as anyone we have on our team. He is a fine back-up and a good asset.
We need to be worrying about our continued health to get us to the promised land.
And to assume this team can beat San Antonio in a 7 game series is a bit much at this point. We were 26-13 last year at one time. Anything can happen to a young team. The Spurs will have to be knocked off before anyone can write them off. Same for the Suns, we or someone other than the Spurs must beat them. Gotta show some respect. We demanded it during our run this decade.
And the Hornets scare me to death. Chris Paul should be the MVP at this point in the league. He’s just so good and so young.
Let’s just enjoy the ride and feel great about where we are. Andrew Bynum has helped change our minds, but man April is a long time away! Trust me, the Spurs and the Suns know this.
Craig W. says
Here is a review of great slashers…take look at the last video of a 3yr old..I didn’t believe it, but I saw it.
http://thestartingfive.wordpress.com/2008/01/08/from-elgin-baylor-to-lebron-james-the-evolution-of-the-slasher-past-and-present/#more-1883
Just fun stuff.
Jeff says
46-
Everyone had forgotten what he looked like on the court, and expectations were WAY higher then they should have been.
Darius says
#45
Worrying about Critt right now is not a top priority. If we ever have to depend on a rookie who should be a sophmore in college, we are in a position where we either have injuries or are just a bad team and want to see what a young player can accomplish. I know that Phil is high on Critt and has been giving him minutes (in Sasha’s absence), but I’ll start to criticize him when he’s a veteran and not just a rookie learning the league. However, I do see your points on Critt, and I wish he would play better when given the chance.
Although I see Kwame’s usefullness (#12 above), he is a veteran and he should show an understanding of how to play the game. We have all seen Kwame step up his game and have a real impact on the outcome in some good wins. Once a player shows that potential, we as fans will always know it’s there and want more. But, as Kurt has pointed out, we do need to get to the point that Kwame is accepted for who and what he is and set our expectations in reality.
Bobby Smith says
“What happened to all that Kwame love that was going on here while he was injured?”
Good question. I was talking about how much more effective Bynum was by starting and logging more minutes than Kwame from day one and nearly everyone on this website disagreed with me. Not it seems nearly everyone agrees with my assessment (there are still some loony holdouts that actually think Kwame should start LOL).
Hopefully Kwame will work on his game, get in shape, and become a forceable back up big man. He does lots of thing wrong on the court, but he is also capable to helping this team. Soon enough we will know if we are stuck with Kwame for the rest of the season.
Either way, it was a clear mistake to pay him so much.
exhelodrvr says
43) Small hands do NOT keep someone from being able to catch a ball. It might make it slightly more difficult, but that is not the main reason for Kwame’s problem.
His problem is that he is consistently not ready for passes.
exhelodrvr says
45) Had someone stated that Crit had contributed noticeably to the Lakers win, I would have responded to that. Crit is still in his first year; the team is not depending on him to produce yet. That is not the case with Kwame. In addition, while Crit makes plenty of mistakes, he does not exhibit a lackadaisical attitude like Kwame does. kwame traveled because “no one was cutting”? That is not why the turnovers happened.
Kwame IS supposed to score when he is left unattended and someone passes him the ball. He is also supposed to put himself into position for rebounds, and then try to get said rebounds. Something else he doesn’t do.
44) Phil doesn’t have any other options to playing Kwame at this point. Mihm is not healthy, Turiaf is too small (unless they want to go small). Remember that, before the ankle injuries, when both Mihm and Kwame were healthy, Mihm was starting.
48) “Have we forgotten how well he played in the 7 game series against PHX a few years ago?”
He played well the first four games, not the last three.
Stephen says
Re Kwame,
It seems most of the criticism is for his laughably bad offensive skills. However…I remember Phil winning several rings in Chicago w/a player who refused to shoot. I’m not sayiing Kwame is anywhere close to Rodman as a player,but having his size to use against Duncan,Yao,Boozer,West,etc is not the worst thing in the world.
Goo says
Off-topic but..Coby Karl wasn’t waived and his contract was guaranteed for the rest of the season
jt says
Along the lines of Kwame convos i see LO getting thrown in there and it pains me to see people expecting more from lamar, although i can understand the frustrations.
And here is why I no longer cringe at LO play. 2 words: Larry Hughes.
Jokes aside i think if LO produces 15-10-X(assist) (or close to it) along with a few superb games then im all for it. I think Kurt mentioned a few post ago LO is what he is, and its hard to find someone like him in this league. And he seems to bring it during Playoffs, with what we’ve seen at least.
Cary D says
I agree, Lamar Odom is now our X-Factor as opposed to our 2nd best player. Kobe and Bynum are our stars who the defense will collapse around. Fisher is the leader who our stars trust. The rest are key role players that i trust Phil will properly utilize as the season continues.
Teams won’t sleep on Lamar. I love having his length on the court. He’s a match-up nightmare when he has got it going for him. I love our 3 headed monster of Kobe, Bynum, and Lamar.