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There’s only so many ways you can deal with an injury. As the player that’s actually injured, Andrew Bynum is doing them all. He’s skipping practices to rest, he’s getting treatment, and he’s playing in obvious discomfort to try and help the team. Really, there’s nothing else the Lakers or us fans can ask from from Bynum that he’s not already doing.
But, Bynum isn’t the only one that has to find a way to deal with this injury. The other Lakers players and coaches must also figure out a way for this team to still be effective when one of it’s key players is limited in the way that Bynum is. So, here are a few things that I think the Lakers can do to if Bynum is going to be as limited as he was on game 4:
1). Get Lamar Odom going. Really this is a need regardless if Bynum is playing well or not, whether he’s full strength or hobbled. Odom is an essential part of this team’s success so finding ways to get him going is important. In game 3 and in the 4th quarter of game 4, Odom found some ways to be successful on offense which is a good start. However, Odom must still find ways to play effective defense and rebound against the C’s big men. One player that has given Odom real problems is Big Baby Davis. Davis has used the combination of girth and quick feet to knock Odom off his spot when attacking the basket off the dribble and when going after rebounds. I think Zephid made a great point in the comments about how Odom can start to neutralize what Davis has been doing best – attacking the basket and finishing inside:
Odom is paying too much respect to Big Baby’s jump shot. Big Baby was able to score so easily because he has a surprisingly quick first step. Once he got his shoulder past Odom, he was able to muscle his way to the basket and use his girth to get space for the finish. If Odom lays off Big Baby and tells him, “Hey, take that 15 footer; I’d rather you make a jumpshot than get a lay-up and/or get a foul.” Laying off Big Baby will solve all of Odom’s problems…Big Baby is a catch-and-shooter; he’s not a catch-and-hold-and-shooter. If Odom just backs off 2-3 feet, he can cut off Big Baby’s drives and still semi-contest his jump shot because Big Baby just cannot rise as high as a guy like KG. The one jumper Big Baby took yesterday he clanked, so we’ve gotta make him start hitting that shot. If he starts burning us from 10-15 feet, only then should we make a change.
Offensively, I think Odom has to rely less on isolation drives. And I say this for two reasons – first, because Davis is a nimble footed defender that does a good job of staying with him on his drives and second, because Boston is a team that thrives on cutting down penetration angles and LO is not finding the openings that he has in past series. This isn’t to say that LO should abandon this tactic, but I think he needs to mix in more off the ball movement where he’s cutting and flashing from the weak side when Pau and Kobe have the ball and are demanding the attention that have so far in the series.
2). Phil must go deeper into his bench. Many will point to bringing in Mbenga and Powell and giving them more burn with the starting group so that Odom and Pau won’t have to play as many minutes while also keeping Odom in his role as the primary reserve. I’m half way on board with this. I do think that Phil needs to ensure that Pau and Odom get the rest they need so they can be effective in the closing stages of the game. Last night, both players were gassed after playing the entire second half. So, some spot minutes for these guys in the middle portion of the quarters (near the mandatory time outs) or at the end of the quarters (to take advantage of the longer breaks) would be a good idea, if only to get these guys those extra few minutes of rest.
But, if Phil is really going to go deeper into his bench, I’d actually prefer that he play Luke and Sasha a bit more – especially Luke. In game 3, Walton was a +13 on the night in his 13 minutes of action. I think Luke’s smarts and savvy on offense would help the Lakers execution a great deal. He’s a guy that can get good looks for other players and is always one that’s thinking one step ahead on offense – something the Lakers need against a great defense like Boston’s. As for Sasha, I just think he’s earned a few extra minutes in this series. Even if it’s only 4-5 minutes a half, I think those minutes would allow Kobe to get a few extra minutes rest so he can be fresher down the stretch.
3). Play Ron more at PF against Davis. If Bynum really is going to be limited, those extra front court minutes have to go somewhere. And with all apologies to Mbenga and Powell, I’d rather it be Ron matching up with Big Baby than those two. Ron has the foot speed and the strength to battle Davis on his drives and the length to contest his jumper and still rebound effectively. Before the series started, Phil said that Davis is the type of player that Ron can play some PF against and I think he should see if his first instinct was right about that. I know we just got done talking about what Odom can do to effectively play Davis, but the C’s have four player rotation and there will be plenty of minutes to go around to match up with all of these players. If the Lakers hope to not wear out Odom and Gasol, they’ll need another player that they can trust in this PF rotation. And if Walton does see more minutes (as mentioned above), then Ron can be moved around a bit more and used in places where he’s most useful – which may just be matched up on Baby.
4). Push the pace more. I’ve been looking for this for a couple of games, but it has not yet materialized. The Lakers can push the pace against this team and get into their offense quicker. Odom, Fisher, and Kobe all need to get the ball up court faster to either get easy buckets early in the clock (which won’t be too often, but needs to be explored) or to get into their sets faster and create a flow to their game that’s been absent in this series. Boston’s slow down tactics aren’t just making the Lakers work deeper into the clock, it’s making the Lakers stagnant on offense. Too often, players are just standing around as if the slow pace has made them lazy in their half court movement. If the Lakers are to break out of their malaise, they need to kick start their sets and get things going earlier and with more punch in their step. Push the ball, look for early offense, pass early and cut often and see where it all gets you. I don’t think it could be worse than having Kobe end up taking a 20 foot contested jumper with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock.
I’m hoping that Bynum can play on Sunday and that he’ll be effective in his minutes. I hope we can see some of the guy from game 2; they guy that did all that damage to the C’s interior while scoring and contesting shots in the paint. But, if that guys not available or if he’s in uniform by severely limited, the Lakers will need to make adjustments. There are some of the things that I’m hoping to see. What about you guys?
Concerned Fan says
I’ve been saying that same thing about Odom. Do NOT respect his jumper that much, and he can’t hurt you. A 15 foot jumper does nothing to the crowd. An And 1, on the other hand will get them to erupt. Plus, the entire way Big Moron is able to score on Odom is to get his body into Odom so Odom can’t jump. That 3 feet of space is all Odom needs to see Davis’ horrible drive, raise up, and block the crap out of it.
Davis plays that way because he’s been playing that way his entire life. That’s how he’s gotten to the NBA. Don’t give him what he wants by bodying him up! Force him to beat you on your terms!
Funky Chicken says
Darius, I like the idea of trying Artest on Baby in theory, but think about what we’ll be asking of him. First, he has to start the game by guarding Boston’s best offensive player (according to Doc Rivers). Then, when, the Celtics go to their bench, Ron has to stay in the game and bang with a guy much bigger than him. That is asking a hell of a lot, and seems like a recipe for wearing him out and allowing Pierce to have his way in the 2nd half.
As for Sasha, I could not agree more. As you know, I have been a frequent critic of Phil Jackson, and his handling of Sasha is one of the many areas where I think that criticism is well-earned. Sasha is the best player off the bench to guard Ray Allen. He hustles more than any of the bench players, and has the added benefit of being a better shooter than the other bench options, so more Sasha is clearly the way to go (especially if that means less Farmar…).
As for Luke, I’m not not so sure. I thought he played very well in game 3, but I find it odd that people will embrace the idea of getting Luke more action but seem to view DJ as some kind of crazy risk. In limited minutes, Luke might do fine, but over an extended period, we know he has neither the offensive nor defensive skills to cope with Celtics.
Which again brings me back to DJ. Does anyone actually think that DJ couldn’t replicate Lamar’s second half stat line (22 minutes with 1 board, no assists and no blocks)? Why is it unreasonable to think that Mbenga can add more than that, while at the same time giving Pau an easier matchup and the bench more firepower?
Burgundy says
Darius, I agree with all your points, but I have to point out a counter:
I 100% agree with you that the Lakers need to push the pace more, but my counter is they were absolutely exhausted last night in the 4th quarter.
Ric Bucher tweeted that Kobe, Pau, and Ron Artest (the three of them all played 43 minutes) were grabbing their shorts and dripping with sweat.
I think they didn’t push the pace, because they simply didn’t have the energy.
I realize it’s the NBA Finals, and “you have to fight through it,” but the exhaustion was very real.
Especially for Gasol in the 2nd Half who went from matching up with Garnett and Baby to being shoved, punched, hit in the face, etc by Perkins because Bynum was out. That wore Gasol out. He’s not soft, he’s just light. He doesn’t have the mass to be beat up for a whole game.
And not to sound whiney, but I’m so freaking sick of the Celtics’ bully-ball tactics.
I mean, really, is there a more unlikeable team in the association?
– Constant fouls after the whistle.
– Taking pride in setting illegal screens.
– Making sure to hit a guy in the face when he goes up for a shot under the basket (as they did to Gasol several times).
– Purposely bumping and slapping guys at random points in the game.
– Hitting and/or shoving Gasol when walking back to the huddle (I saw Perkins AND Rondo do it).
How is that basketball? Is that fun for Boston fans to watch?
To me, the officials need to clean up some of the dirty stuff a little bit. Rondo clearly SHOVED Pau Gasol in the back when he was headed back to the huddle after a free throw right in front of Scott Foster.
That’s not a technical?
Dan says
Walton has only played in 2 games this series; I probably don’t need to tell you which two games those were.
Enough said.
Joel B. says
Am I the only one that just not understanding why the answer to defending Big Baby, a spot up 15ft jumpshooter, is giving him spot up 15ft jumpshots? I agree that Odom shouldn’t over play Big Baby, but he shouldn’t give up jumpers and get him going that way. Big Baby is a jumpshooter, but Odom makes him look like Hakeem Olajuwon.
The answer is Odom has to do a better job of moving his feet and anticipating what he going to do and be in position to contest his shots and/or take a charge. We are giving way too much credit to Big Baby Davis. Davis is a decent player, but he’s not a superstar. Odom is making him look like one with his horrendous defense. So your telling me, big baby has more foot speed then Odom? Just as Big Baby is using is body, Odom has to use his length and quickness. Isn’t that an attribute we hear every single game about Odom, he’s so long and agile? Maybe you are right Darius, we shouldn’t expect Odom to play good defense. Maybe the answer is to lay 3ft off big baby and pray he misses open jumpers. Sorry for expecting a good player to play well on both ends of the court.
This is absolutely terrible. Going into this series, I don’t think 1 person on this planet believed the lakers would have to game plan for Big Baby Davis. But because Odom can’t defend, the lakers have to. The worst part is Odom not owning up to his failures, passing the buck on his teammates to help him defend Big Baby conceding he can’t defend him and the lakers need to double Big Baby. And if the Lakers have to start doubling Big Baby, I believe the lakers lose the series.
So the rest is dependent only if artest can defend big baby or if Odom decides to defend, or the simple but ohh so difficult solution is Bynum.
robinred says
I agree that Walton should be getting 10-12 minutes. He remains the team’s best passer, which matters against Boston. I will be surprised if Walton gets a DNP in G5.
As to Vujacic, I am not sure about that.
Nick C. says
Concerned Fan, you need to grow up. Glen Davis had a good game and you resort to namecalling? Like Kobe Bryant didn’t initiate contact with Rasheed Wallace while ‘Sheed jumped straight up and got a clean piece of the ball? Come on! You give Lakers fans a bad name.
On Bynum, I wish him the best. You have to beat the best to be the best and I’d never want someone to wish an injury onto me. The realist in me says his knees are just plain injury-prone at this point, though. Unless he gets lighter and/or plays limited minutes, I don’t see how bad knees will get better.
On Artest – HE WAS MATCHED UP WITH RAY ALLEN IN THE FOURTH QUARTER – WHY DIDN’T THE LAKERS POST HIM UP??? HE TRIED ONCE (poorly) AND THEY NEVER TRIED AGAIN DESPITE A THREE INCH FORTY-TO-SIXTY POUND ADVANTAGE!
(I’m a Celtics fan and this confused the living daylights out of me – I first noticed this with 7:40 left in the 4th quarter)
Booze says
Offensively:
1) Ball movement and player movement. The Celtics did a good job of preventing the initial post pass stalling our offense, leaving us in a position where Kobe must force a contested jump shot. They should look to get the ball inside off of swing passes or pick and roll action.
2) I agree that we should play a small lineup with Artest and Walton as the forwards when Baby is in the game. Luke will help facilitate Ron’s role in the offense. Additionally this may provide some space allowing for driving lanes for the guards and post space for Bynum/Pau.
3) We need to get points in early offense. These should be available they way Rondo likes to crash the offensive glass. Pau and Odom both need to sprint to the basket in transition this will facilitate easy shots for them as well as players on the wing when their defenders are forced to help.
Defensively:
1) Rebound. 16 offensive rebounds is embarasing.
2) Play Nate differently than you play Rondo. They need to know that Nate is a scorer and play the P&R accordingly.
3) Continue to prevent transition points that Rondo thrives off of.
Nick C. says
Lastly, Celtics fans are hoping and praying that D.J. Mbenga and Josh Powell see the parquet (although with the way that this series is going, they’d probably win the game for L.A.). I think that Odom needs to step up somehow.
I also agree with the Kia Shootaround crew who noted that the Lakers’ bench is terribly barren when Odom is forced to play with the starters.
I don’t know how Phil Jackson will manage this if Bynum really is limited (which again I have to work hard to resist the temptation to hope for… it’s tough b/c I love the Celtics, but I made it out of 11 years of sports without a knee injury and karma is swift with cruel justice, so……..)
Josh says
Nick…offensively, Mbenga vs Perkins is a wash. They’re both bad on offense. In limited minutes (I mean…VERY limited minutes) Mbenga should see some playing time. He can’t be any worse on somebody like Perkins than Odom is.
DY says
Putting Artest on Big Baby makes some sense, but the only problem is Artest would probably get into foul trouble jostling with Mr. King Hippo inside, since Hippo would have a size advantage. I suppose Phil has no confidence in Powell because it was evident that our bigs had very little left in the tank.
The differences in our bench play got me thinking, why is our bench so passive compared to Boston? I suppose you look to its putative “leader” LO. Maybe those who have more insight into team dynamics can tell me, but does it seem to me that the bench plays passive because it seems to cower to Kobe’s high demands and Phil’s short leash? Not demeaning said individuals, but you can see the Celtics bench beaming with confidence (and over confidence). Why is that? I know KG has been hard on King Hippo, but look how he has morphed that into a positive contribution. Do the Lakers look for certain personalities that might be considered “passive” and more suitable to being amenable to Kobe’s tough ways?
I’m just wondering aloud, and I know that the FO hasn’t had much $ to re-tool the bench (since we have 10 mil a year to Sasha and Luke), but the bench’s psyche is a bit discomforting. I don’t want to see boorish and borderline-insane behavior exhibited by Celts, but I do want their sense of confidence.
We so need Bynum to be healthy, and if he’s not ready for Game 5, better to sit him out to have him ready for Game 6. Man, what a turn of events.
Sedale says
Darius,
I know Artest is a strong dude, but I don’t think he can handle Davis down low; he’s just too wide and nimble enough. Putting Artest on Davis will most likely require a double team. If Davis is going to demand a double team while Artest is guarding, then you’re leaving Boston’s legit weapons wide open. I have to respectfully disagree with you on that one.
As far as pushing the tempo goes, that’s a legit MUST. In a 24 second possession, the Lakers really only have about 12-15 seconds to get the offense running. Let’s say it takes 4-5 seconds to advance the ball after a Boston score and another second or two to start a set, that leaves about 18-19 seconds on the shot clock. We also know that if the offense isn’t doing it’s thing with about 6 seconds left on the clock, then everyone is looking to Kobe to take what is often a high degree of difficulty shot. Advancing the ball quicker allows a few more QUALITY seconds to run the offense. This might also help improve Kobe’s FG%.
Also, I think it should be noted that there’s a difference between Kobe (or a perimeter player) taking and missing a shot compared to Pau (or a big) taking and missing a shot. When Kobe takes and misses, it makes it more difficult for him to run back on defense. When Pau, or one of the bigs miss, Kobe is more available to run back on D. It’s easiest for the perimeter players to get back first to thwart the fast break.
robinred says
What I said about Mbenga in the other thread was that he should see spot minutes, be told to crash the boards, contest near the rim, and if he sees a shot at a dunk, try to finish it. Don’t worry about fouls.
He would provide energy and size–nothing more. But the Lakers will need some of both if Andrew can’t go.
Lakers8884 says
Darius, I agree with all your points and I said two games ago Ron could do a better job on Big Baby than Odom does.
I think Phil has yet to play a small ball lineup that is both quicker and more athletic than the Celtics. They struggled during the regular season against teams like the Suns and Hawks.
Farmar (or Fisher), Shannon or Sasha, Kobe at the 3, Ron at the 4 and Pau at the 5. Offensively things might be better with Lamar on the bench, and while we would be giving up some size on the defensive end we would have the 3 best players on the floor who could push the ball in transition. HOWEVER, I would only experiment with this lineup if Bynum cannot go like he did last night.
Lastly Lamar just needs to wake up and remember he is playing in the NBA finals, I am not blaming last night on him alone but his inability to play big along side of Pau really hurt the Lakers last night.
Zephid says
5, this year, Big Baby Davis shot 36% from 10-15 ft, according to HoopData.com, 0.5 attempts per game with 66.7% of them being assisted. In contrast, he shot 51.8% at the rim with 2.5 attempts per game and 69% of his makes being assisted. In his previous two years, he shot 22% and 20% from 10-15 ft, with 50% and 85% of his makes being assisted, respectively. This tells me that he is at most an ok jump shooter, and most of his attempts come off catch-and-shoot opportunities from Rondo or Pierce’s penetration.
Like I said above, he is a catch-and-shooter, not a catch-and-hold-and-shooter. All Lamar has to do is crowd Davis on the catch, then back off. I can live with Glen Davis making 36% of those shots. Heck I can live with him making 50% of those shots. But he has a deceptively quick first step, which you’re not giving him credit for, that he’s using to great effect coupled with his girth. I’d rather he makes 50% of his open jumpers than 90% of his lay-ups at the basket, not to mention the momentum it gives the C’s along with the possible fouls on us.
In a perfect world, yea, we’d love to see Odom shut Davis down. But it’s not happening, and just trotting out Odom the next night and expecting it to happen is not the best course of action.
Aaron says
This is why most teams in the NBA have a back up big man on the bench. The Lakers only back up big is guy who came into this league as a SF (Odom). I agree with everyone here who says the Lakers need an upgrade at the PG but we also need to add another back up PF or Center. Preferably Center (although thats the hardest spot to fill) because as of right now the Lakers only have one Center (Bynum) on the roster that they feel comfortable playing even in the regular season. Since the easiest way to add bench players is through the draft maybe we should be buying draft picks instead of selling them away?
All this is for another day… right now we have 3 games to win 2. Thats why you get HCA to ensure games 6 and 7 will both be in LA. Presuming Andrew won’t be able to provide many minutes… we are going to have to ask Gasol and Lamar to play bigger and stronger than they are because DJ and Powell are not guys that should be playing in the NBA playoffs, let alone an NBA Finals. Although Phil has a history of playing scrubs in big games and getting them to perform. So we will see. This is what basketball is all about. 3 games to decide the NBA champion. These games won’t be about heart and desire. This is the end of the Finals… both teams will be giving it all they have (besides Odom of course). The last few games will be decided by strategy, smarts, execution, and composure. And that is why my money is on the Lakers… even without Bynum.
chearn says
@11, why does the bench failure have to be associated with Kobe Bryant? That is perplexing to me, seeing as how in a ideal game, Kobe would not even be on the floor with the bench. Problems with this bench have been exhibited prior to the trade deadline, yet not one single move was made. Not even a trade to shake up the rest of the bench players. Personally, I lobbied for the Lakers to get Nate Robinson no matter what it took, yet the Lakers chose to stand pat with the bench that they had. Even though this bench had showed the inability to be reliable for this team all year (and for some LO, Sasha and Luke they’ve had multiple years of inconsistency).
Why does Boston’s bench exude confidence, maybe its because they are! Big Baby played instead of Garnett in the play off game that Garnett was suspended, and actually scored and rebounded on the Big Ticket’s level. Big Baby may be a lot of things but he is not inconsistent, as to comparison to Lamar. As for Nate Robinson, he has been a starter in this league he’s just a ‘hothead’. But being a hothead does not negate his superior athleticism nor his will to win. Meanwhile on the Lakers bench only LO could start for another NBA team the rest are fortunate to even be in the NBA.
Mbenga and Powell need to play if for no other reason than to lean on Boston’s bigs to wear them out. If we think the Lakers are tired, how much more tire are Boston’s bigs? Garnett can not shoot because he’s fatigued, so we need those two wide bodies to bang Boston around a bit.
Bynum gave all he had in game 2 in a defeat, he competed in games 3 and 4 admirably. Games 2 and 4 were there for the Lakers to take, yet somehow they blew each game due to fatigue. Phil could have used all of his timeouts in the last 5 minutes in order to give his team a blow and a chance to win the game. Heck, call back to back timeouts if necessary. There are ways to extend rest for a short bench but he has not utilized any of them.
Game 5 is a must win game for the Lakers, a MUST WIN game! They can not allow Boston’s bench to win the championship for the Celtics. Because quite frankly, that’s the only way I can see Boston winning this series. And that would be a shame!
VoR says
I really think the key to this series is Bynum’s participation. If he can give them some solid minutes each half, I think the Lakers can take the series. If not, I have my doubts.
I think if Bynum can’t go, you have to give minutes to Mbenga against Perkins. Due to the weight/strength difference, that match up really wears Gasol down.
I don’t see that Sasha is any worse than Brown – more foul prone, yes – but he does have more upside, I think.
Curious to see the roations on Sunday. If four players (Kobe, Pau and any two others) show up big, they can steal another one with or without Bynum. So far, I have not seen enough of other guys stepping up.
Mike says
You forgot hustle. Something the Lakers usually don’t do but must do if they want to win.
Funky Chicken says
Aaron, what do you mean the Lakers only have one center on their roster? What about Mbenga? Nobody seems to think he can do anything, which baffles me in light of what the Lakers need from that position against the C’s.
When the series is still up for grabs, it is very unusual for a Finals game to be “over” with 6 minutes go. Instead, because you have two very good teams that have endured a lot just to get there, a typical Finals game is one that is decided in the last 5 to 6 minutes. So, the key is position yourself to have the better team in those 5 or 6 minutes, NOT to have the best team to start the game.
The argument for starting DJ (or giving him the minutes that would go to Drew if Drew were healthy) is not that with DJ the Lakers have their best starting 5. Clearly their best starting 5 (without Drew) is with Gasol at center and Odom at PF. But, again, the goal should not be to find a lineup that constitutes your best starting 5.
Instead, the goal should be to have a lineup that gives you your best 5 guys in the last 6 minutes. In my mind, the Lakers best 5 guys to close the game (if Bynum isn’t available) are Gasol, Odom, Artest, Bryant and Fisher. But it isn’t just having those guys out there that matters. As we saw last night, those guys are NOT going to win the game for us in the last 6 minutes if they are dead tired.
So, we have to be thinking about how best to preserve these guys for the final run, and to me that means keeping LO in his best position, coming off the bench. Doing so makes him better, makes the bench better, and offers more minutes of rest to guys like Gasol, Artest and Kobe. That, in turn, makes all of those guys better in the final 6 minutes.
Giving DJ the minutes that would otherwise go to Bynum seems to me the best way to keep the minutes down for the key guys, while allowing the Lakers to stay in the game (he is, at worst, a draw with Perkins).
We tried putting LO in the starting linuep to begin the 3rd quarter and look what we got: no rest for the starters, a four point lead cut to two, and a completely depleted starting unit that was badly outhustled and outplayed by the Celtics BENCH. Those starting 5 didn’t look so great when they were getting torched by the likes of Glen Davis, Tony Allen & Nate Robinson–and that was purely because they didn’t have the energy. Giving DJ Andrew’s minutes solves that problem….
Q says
odom got owned by fat baby, how sad is that?
Taylor says
19. Interesting observation got me thinking of examples…
Hawks – Crawford
Mavs – Jet
Spurs – Ginobli (and when he didn’t start, Parker)
Their best 5 don’t start, but they finish.
Funky Chicken says
Taylor, that’s precisely the point I was trying to make in my last post. However, it isn’t enough to put your best 5 out there to finish; you have to put them out there with the energy to take the fight to the opponent in the last 5 minutes or so of the game. Last night, we had our optimal lineup out on the floor to finish the game; but they had nothing left in the tank.
So, for those who don’t think the answer is DJ getting Drew’s minutes if Bynum can’t go, how do you propose getting the Lakers’ best 5 guys the rest they need to be there in the end?
muddywood says
I think that if Andrew’s knee doesn’t respond to any treatment by tonight that Phil should send him back to LA and start Lamar. Get Bynum as healthy as possible for game 6&7 and kickstart Lamar’s game by starting him.
Just a thought.
Anonymous says
bynum gets his knee drained again. hopefully it helps.
http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2010/06/11/andrew-bynum-has-right-knee-drained-again/38137/
TB-8788 says
Luke- I want to see him get 10-15 minutes to help facilitate the offense. The Farmar-Shannon-Ron-Odom-insert any center lineup has the lowest triangle IQ possible of any combination. The only reason I can think Phil DNP-CD’d him was concern about defending on the other end?
DJ- I think 5-8 wrap around (end of quarter-start of next) minutes can help Pau be fresh down the stretch. For Pau, it’s not the total minutes played, but the TYPE of minutes. Perkins takes a lot out of him with the physical play. Let DJ absorb some of that. Perhaps Phil has bad memories of that Chris Mihm debacle when he unwrapped him for a brief Finals appearance in 08?
Igor Avidon says
I’m not sure if DJ’s IQ is high enough to risk putting him out there. He hustles and tries, but I see him blowing defensive assignments and switches – all that on top of the excessive fouling. If Phil decides to try it, we should trust his decision. But he hasn’t done so yet, so obviously he thinks it’s not a good move. I would love to see more of Luke and Sasha however. Shannon has not done enough to warrant the time he’s getting. Sasha is giving 110% at all times and he’s a better shooter. Luke, for previously-stated reasons, needs to see playing time.
DeVelaine says
[unlurk]
@3: Actually, yes, some of it is fun to watch, even though the better the defense gets, the uglier the game gets. But it’s also effective as long as they’re note getting T’d up for it constantly. Think about it… If you get fouled hard every time you get into the paint, are you going to keep going in there, or are you going to try to shoot from the perimeter to keep from getting hammered again?
On the bright side… At least Gasol doesn’t have to deal with getting clocked by Dwight Howard’s elbows every time he’s anywhere near the paint. How that guy doesn’t get called for a flagrant every other game is a mystery to me.
[/unlurk]
alex v. says
I’d like to see Bynum play game 5 (with the knee drain and extra day of rest). Assuming that works (i.e. we win), I’d seriously consider resting him until game 7.
I read comments somewhere (a Kevin Ding column?) from Jackson that Mbenga isn’t likely to see the floor, as tends to happen to guys at the bottom of the rotation. Maybe it would have been different if we had faced someone else in the play-offs where we need the bulk/fouls in the middle, but how many teams in the NBA make that necessary?
I’ll add my voice to the surprise that Walton isn’t getting some more minutes, even just for a bit to spark the offense. It’s not like Pierce played much better than he did against Artest, but maybe the coaches saw things they didn’t like, or maybe Walton’s back is hurting.
winferd smiley says
Celtics defence is a lot of crap. The refs don’t call the grabbings,shobbings,the punchings and the bullyings. Only one Boston player is in foul trouble. This is rediculous !!!
RBD says
Celtics fan here. Just wanted to note that I’ve been really digging this blog the last week. Very sharp analysis. Also have been very impressed by Bynum’s heart and toughness. The kid is opening a lot of eyes by shredding Perk, even while injured. His injury is a huge issue. If he’s out (or “effectively” out) I don’t think L.A. can win. If he can give you something, then it’s anyone’s series.
chibi says
i thought boston got away with sacrificing some transition defense for extra offensive rebounding.
it was a good gamble, but it isn’t going to work again. the lakers will be prepared next game.
i’m optimistic about our chances in game 5 and i expect the lakers to grind out a big win.
DirtySanchez says
I totally agree with Funky Chicken the last 5 to 6 minutes in every game, except game 1, has been the deciding factor in which team won the game. If the answer is not to play Mbenga or Powell some( 10 to 15 minutes) to give LO or Pau rest, then at least play Luke or Sasha more minutes to get Kobe some rest for the final minutes.
I am confident in the coaching skills of Phil, he will make the necessary adjustments in game 5 that will put LA in the best position to win. A chance to win is all you can ask for, in all the games so far LA has had their chance. Now its just about seizing the moment, and writing their own ending to the story.
bluesky says
I think with 2 days resting, Bynum will play in game 5. Lakers missed opportunity in game 4 to experiment with DJ Menga. Phil is not a coach who wants to try something new. I like the coach who does whatever it takes to win, this is NBA Finals, you can’t wait next game, next year.
Phil pushed Dr.Buss to re-sign Odom, Lakers have to pay million dollars luxury tax this year. The excuse which people are often to give Odom is that he lost his focus. That’s not true. The truth is Odom doesn’t have a desire to win a game. Every year he is the same, his game did not improve. The problem with Odom, he is not good offensive or defensive player. How can Odom play better ? the only chance is Odom has bloody nose like he played against Phoenix few years ago, Odom wanted the ball and scored 30 points because he was mad with bloody nose.
inwit says
I’m in a mood to talk tonight.
In my opinion, if I controlled the Lakers:
I would shut down young Andrew for the season. It breaks my heart, but think about his future.
So, let’s see how good Kobe is.
To do so, there has to be a level playing field. He gets no break from the officials and the media only wants to tell you what he is not. He’s not playing through a bad piece of pizza this year. (Oh, the stuff legends are made of).
other thoughts …
So let’s see how good Kobe really is. We’ve all waited to see it. How can he be so great and never take the next step? Karpov. Or will it be different?
Well, who’s to complain?
inwit says
and don’t even get me started on the Willis Reed thing … never bought it from the start … but, oh, that was another Game 7, long ago when I was just a boy. Home from school at 3, plopped on the couch, turned on, what was it, Channel 9? It had to be on that station, maybe in case there was some weird malfunction and that station wouldn’t come in at some later point. So I sat there for the requisite hours.
I will not comment further but for years I knew the game score like it was a disease you can’t get rid of.
And no Paul Pierce jokes …
Darius says
I think too many (#34 is the latest) are taking the criticism of Odom too far. It’s one thing to criticize him for not playing well. It’s another to question his want to win or to now suddenly say that he’s not a good player. He’s had a rough series and has not had his best playoffs. Okay. So now he’s no good? Now he’s expendable? I’m sorry, but not that much has changed in a season. Odom’s still the same team first player that he’s been his entire run with the Lakers. People still complain about all the things that Odom isn’t rather than appreciating the things that he actually is. Before this series is over Odom is going to have one of *those* performances. At that point, I wonder if we’ll still hear all the complaints. (Actually, scratch that, I know that we will. Lakers fans need their whipping boy. Ugh.)
inwit says
I agree Darius, Lamar is a very creative orchestra leader, at his best. He just needs to play and forget about the rest. Artest too. Relax and play, you’ve been playing basketball your whole life.
Darius says
#31. RBD,
Thanks for the kind words. And we appreciate a C’s fan stopping by and not trying to cause trouble – especially during a tense series. We’re all for the high discourse so come by anytime and contribute your thoughts. We’re always looking for level headed commentary from the other side.
inwit says
and conditioning is a form of psychological torture, too
good night
nimble says
Increase the pace,let Kobe do his thing,not dump him the ball with 5 seconds to go,get some boxing out from sweet teeth Lamar.
Lakers in 6!
lesha says
playing dj vs perkins could work out for a couple of minutes each half since perkins is not much of a scorer, and dj can bang with him for sure. having sasha chasing ray allen around would also help, not only because he is relentless, but also because he can space the floor better than brown or farmar.
i´d try to limit all our starters to ~35min and see what the other guys can give us. we can afford to lose this game if it means that bynum, kobe and pau get a rest and the upside of knowing how dj, luke and sasha play against the celtics when given more minutes.
try to keep the game close and if it works bring in our best unit for the last 6 minutes and then run, run, run.
boris says
I’m totally baffled for all the calls for more PT to Mbenga. I like the guy and root for him, but he has never really shown an ability to make the team perform better, because of his low skill level and inability to draw any defender anywhere. It’s the finals, you can’t just have people out there eating space.
All the complaints about Phil’s substitutions also don’t sit that well for me. Yes, in theory more of Sasha and Luke could be good (and I would like to see them at the start of the 4th), but they have also both been injured. Luke plays the right way but is overmatched, and Sasha can match the intensity and has some skills but, as we saw against the Suns, is hardly someone to be relied upon. If they were in more and performing badly a whole bunch of people would be asking why Farmar and Brown aren’t getting more burn – and as we’ve seen they are much more inclined to freelance which is a questionable strategy against a team that executes as well as the Celtics.
I think the bottom line is that the bench has been a concern all season, and the roster just isn’t very deep. I do think that LO’s rebounding is generally better than we saw in G4 and if he tries to assert himself on the boards that would help a lot.
Zephid says
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5274858
PJ even says that he doesn’t think DJ is prepared to play after not having done so for so long. He does say that Josh Powell is ready, which not only indicates that he’ll probably see the floor in G5, but also speaks volumes about Powell’s work ethic that was highlighted in the McMenamin article from a while back.
I’m not sure how much I like that thought, but it’ll be interesting to see if Powell can improve our spacing and give Gasol the room he needs to operate. Also, he’ll need to battle with Big Baby on the boards (since he’ll likely get dominated by KG or Perkins, maybe even Sheed), so he’ll definitely have to show up physically because Big Baby probably has 50-60 pounds on him.
Nick C. says
REALLY dumb question from a Celtics fan – Why is this called forum BLUE and gold? Is it a “royal blue” that’s actually purple? Or am I colorblind???
Zephid says
45, see tab at the top “Forum Blue?”
Craig W. says
Darius,
I agree with all of your points, but…
The only one that really has a chance of happening is Phil going with Ron at PF a bit and bringing in Luke on Pierce – I really fear Pierce having a breakout game.
Lamar: We have been following him since 2004 and he is what we think he is. He has a game that is particularly troublesome for most team, but he doesn’t change that game for situations very well.
Speeding up the pace: The Lakers run off steals, not really off rebounds, except for when Lamar is bringing up the ball. Fish simply doesn’t run up the court and Kobe’s habit is that he pounds the ball into the ground surveying the court. Our best fast break is Pau leaking out early and a long pass – this eliminates a lot of our rebounds against Boston.
Andrew is still our key piece in dealing with Boston’s physicality. While Ron can do things against Pierce, we need some bulk against Perkins and Davis.
Rudy says
Nick,
My girlfriend teases me about this all the time when I’m on here. I have no answer for you as to why this is called forum blue and gold when the Lakers are actually Purple and Gold. But either way it’s still a great site.
As for my 2 sense in all of this stuff, I just think Odom has to look himself in the mirror and man up. Darius, I understand you pointing out what Odom does well for us, but c’mon these are the finals. He flat out got owned against Big Baby Davis and didn’t do anything in games 1 and 2. We can talk about strategy like giving Mbenga minutes (which I don’t want to see), or putting Artest on Davis (probably not a bad idea) all we want, but the bottomline is that we could have or probably should have won that game had Odom rebounded and attempted to play some defense.
On another note, I am just praying for Artest to give us 1 game where he’s knocking down the 3 ball like he did in game 3 of the Jazz series. How much of a boost would that give us?
Nick C. says
Thanks Zephid for pointing that out – I was so interested in the good content here that I didn’t pay attention to the navigation bar.
@Rudy – at least I wasn’t alone. You should also check the “Forum Blue?” link at the top of the page.
Tra says
I’m of the belief that, not only will Big Drew be available for game 5, but he’ll also provide us with a productive 20-25 mins. If only for the fact that:
1. He’ll definitely benefit from the 2 days off (Basically, 3, since he didn’t play much in game 4).
2. The Knee will have been drained to (Hopefully) reduce Swelling & Gain Flexibility.
3. Most Importantly, the MRI that he received showed No Additional damage to the Knee, which will do Wonders for him Mentally.
Regarding the Bench Situation, all year long I’ve questioned Phil’s usage of them. I Understand that Luke was hurt for a good Portion of the Season, but even when he was available, Phil hardly ever called his number. I still find it Perplexing that he doesn’t use Sasha more efficiently, especially in a series such as this. B4 the season began, he made Sasha cut his hair because he claimed that ‘His constant concern for his Hair was affecting his Performance on the Court’. I found his reasoning to be Comical @ best. Josh Powell has always been Ready & Willing to contribute. I purposely left out the word Able because, @ this point, (mainly do to Phil’s handling of the 3) I’m not Sure if either of them are.
With All that being said, I believe we have enough Intestinal Fortitude to pull out a Game 5 victory in their building and then close them out Tuesday night in our House.
Zephid says
48, Ron Artest already gave us one of those games. 3-5 from three, 5-10 overall in Game 1 where the Lakers won relatively easily. I think it goes without saying that if Ron Artest shoots the ball well, we will win, because his making shots frees up space for everyone else to operate. When he’s busy clanking shots and making passive forays toward the basket, he just bogs down the offense. We need Ron to either shoot with confidence or take it aggressively to the basket, not somewhere in between.
Zephid says
50, yea, Bynum had his knee drained right before the Finals started and it was like he was a new man. Let’s hope we get the same results this time.
81 witness says
Pushing the pace is a must, but only under certain circumstances:
1) Fisher, Artest, and Luke are terrible players on offense in transition. However, Fisher has shown flashes during this series of finishing well, Artest, not so much. As Farmar has said, “Luke is the only NBA player that would post up on a fast break.”
2) Gasol and the bigs need to get their ass back on D. KG and Rondo will take advantage.
3) PJ needs to take the rubber bands off the claws from Farmar and Brown. Encourage them to run and get Odom involved. Hopefully, Odom gets a few easy buckets and it encourages him for the rest of the game.
Darius says
New post is up. Some fast break thoughts.
http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2010/06/12/fast-break-thoughts-66/
Aaron says
Funky Chicken,
If you read closer I wrote…
“as of right now the Lakers only have one Center (Bynum) on the roster that they feel comfortable playing even in the regular season.”
I know they have other back up bigs but they aren’t even close to the rotation.