With the Grammy road trip over, the Lakers were back in action last night against the Atlanta Hawks. They managed a win but there was some unpurty ball being played in the midsection. The Lakers are 12-2 at home this year, while not particularly looking like a team that should be 12-2 anywhere. Much of the talk over the past few days has centered on the Gilbert Arenas situation, Coach Brown’s rotations, and Metta World Peace’s winter of discontent with said head coach (although the latest reports bespeak a detente).
The Peace accord as relayed by Dave McMenamin at ESNP, is more about consistency than frustration.
Over at Fox Sports West, Joe McDonnell has a bit of a different take on the situation.
Brian Kameneyzky at the Land O’Lakers looks at last night’s game, observing the excellence and rarity of a MWP double-dunk game.
A terrific article by Bruce Arthur at the National Post, about Kobe Bryant and his relentless drive.
Interesting take by Ben R, over at Silver Screen and Roll, in which he puts Murphy into the beast slot, with Kobe and Andrew as burdens. I will duck out of the way.
C.A. Clark, also at Silver Screen and Roll, offers up a somewhat more charitable Laker analysis, likening last night’s game to the best worst offense ever.
A look at team play as an inspiration point, by Kevin Ding at the OC Register.
Here’s a lively 5-on-5 at ESPN with Danny Chau, Dan Feldman, Zach Harper, John Krolik and Chris Palmer.
And last but certainly not least, with the recent attention being on Hibachi, here comes a J.R. Smith conversation with Mike Brown, as reported by Mike Bresnahan at the L.A. Times.
***
Last night’s win may have quieted the drumbeats, but probably not for long. Pick whatever analogy you want, this team cannot seem to stay on the same page. The Suns come to town for a Friday game, with a Sunday rematch back in Phoenix. By all rights, two games in five days, against a team with a .414 record, should be an opportunity for a little rest, a practice or two, and a couple solid wins. Right?
– Dave Murphy
Aaron says
Look away Kobe fans…
tomhaberstroh Tom Haberstroh
To piggy-back on @ZachLowe_SI’s gem on Kobe, here’s some context. http://t.co/7fuY8uqC
about 2 hours ago
BigCitySid says
Lakers have 2 full days of practice before playing the 12-17 Suns on Friday in L. A. Are my fellow Laker fans feeling rather confident facing a team with a 7-10 road record & negative 3.3 point differential whose top 3 scorers are: Marcin Gortet (15.3), Nash (14.3) & Jared Dudley (11.4)? Gortet is a solid player, but if he’s your teams top scorer, I smell major problem. Lakers by nine in a game that’s not even that close.
BigCitySid says
@#1, Aaron: that is one very, very scary stat. Here’s hoping Dwight Howard &/or Deron Williams doesn’t get that memo. 🙁
Aaron says
Stat Facts with Aaron…
The only players in the entire league ranked below Fisher (56) are a few third string PGs who don’t play 🙁
56 Derek Fisher, LAL 29 25.7 .423 34.0 10.8 13.4 0.6 7.9 4.4 8.29 -30.1 -1.0
57 Keyon Dooling, BOS 11 16.6 .629 14.5 21.8 16.8 0.7 5.7 3.3 8.20 -7.7 -0.3
58 Sebastian Telfair, PHX 23 12.8 .396 20.5 13.1 22.3 2.3 6.4 4.4 6.97 -17.7 -0.6
59 Toney Douglas, NY 25 21.3 .393 16.4 13.0 23.0 1.3 9.8 5.4 6.55 -35.4 -1.2
60 Mike Bibby, NY 20 13.7 .406 24.9 10.7 13.4 1.2 10.4 5.7 6.43 -18.7 -0.6
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
61 Josh Selby, MEM 18 10.3 .445 23.3 24.2 20.1 1.2 6.9 4.0 5.04 -16.6 -0.6
62 Jeremy Pargo, MEM 21 11.5 .366 23.0 16.6 21.7 4.7 6.7 5.7 4.94 -21.9 -0.7
rred says
Just a reminder: the Lakers are 9-3 this year in games decided by 5 points or less, in spite of Kobe’s numbers.
BigCity,
I think Howard and Williams would be a lot more worried about Brown/Buss/ crappy roster 4-14/cap than about Kobe’s crunch-time numbers. If evidence is produced to the contrary, I would like to see it and would certainly acknowledge it. But some of the stathead guys in the media tend to assume that the rest of the world is as fixated on every missed Kobe fallaway as they are.
Robert says
Big City: If u recall I was with u on the 3-3 road trip and I am with u now for the sweep of this home+home.
2 Points:
Doesn’t Change Anything: These games are important for seeding and team morale, but they do not change r overall situation. Let’s remember this if + when we are 19-12 and on a 4 game winning streak.
MB: We are 17-12 with a roster that is weak by most people’s statements on this board. So how is this an MB thing? I will not defend him, because he is not my fav either, but if u r critical of the roster, which I am, how can 17-12 bother u? I would like to hear from those who have been both bashing the roster and MB, because the 2 are somewhat contradictory.
rred says
Orlando is supposedly making a pitch for JR Smith. I think they have the miniMLE, but I am not sure.
Knicks can offer miniMLE. Clippers used theirs on Martin, and the Lakers used theirs on McRoberts. As AK said in Chat: keeping Odom might have actually helped more with “flexibility.”
Robert says
Kobes: We r also all forgetting about Kobe’s wrist, because he hasn’t complained about it in a while, + the fact that he plays way 2 many minutes.
Further he is at 44% for the yr vs 45% career. C Anthony is @ 40%; DW is @ 41%, Ellis @43%. What do they all have in common? they play 4 teams whose offenses force them to go 1-1 in alot of bad situations. Kobe also makes up for the FG% to some extent with 1 of the highest FT %’s amongst the scoring leaders.
Aaron says
Robert,
Kobe said last week that his wrist is now a hundred percent and fully healed.
Robert says
I think he said that about his knee and ankle last year, so i will expect off-season surgery on the wrist next summer : )
Joel says
Kobe’s clutch shooting has been terrible. It’s not just the wrist, but rather a culmination of things. His clutch performance can be attributed to the wrist, the amount of games the lakers played early on, the amount of minutes kobe played in those games, the fact that he doesn’t trust anyone anymore and chooses to shoot over double and triple teams. f you had Kobe turnovers late in games he’s been even worse than his shooting percentage indicates. As the season progresses, Kobe is going to have to be a lot better in end of game situations. Kobe is going to have to make better decisions, take better shots and the rest of the lakers have to be ready to knock down open shots.
I really hope Jr smith signs with lakers. He fill’s 3 immediate needs for the lakers, outside shooting, bench scoring, and athleticism.
Dave M says
Love this trend of reducing players to decimal points. The thrill of victory, the agony of defeat. As soon as we can figure out how to reverse calls on the basis of probability, we’ll reach true sports nirvana.
VoR says
The JR Smith move would be intriguing in that the Lakers get another guy with baggage. They also gain some more body ink cred – LA Ink indeed.
I wonder what would happen to Glock? Unless they move him to the one and drop Fish more, his minutes would probably disappear, as would his development trajectory. Probably a moot point, as I doubt Smith signs with this LA club.
Big picture, I think the Lakers are headed in the right direction. I don’t think they can beat Chi, Mia or OKC, but other than that, no one really stands out. Given the challenges of this season, I think Brown has done OK so far. The Fish issue is the only one that I think he is erring in, and it may be that his hands are tied there. He is reducing his minutes so that, too, is going in the right direction.
I continue to find this season far more entertaining than last year. This team can probably be a two seed in the West. It is also quite capable of completely imploding and missing the playoffs altogether.
Highlight of the night to me was that little give and go piece between Kobe and Pau followed by the two of them grinning at each other like little kids as they ran back down the court after the score.
Ken says
Reference story about Metta Head.
Don’t get it.
Odom complains to his agent and is sent away. And he was 6th man of the year and performed.
Metta crys to the Media. Players want him gone. He is worst player in the league on offense and nothing! Not a world from Mitch, Jimmy nothing as he throw Brown under the Buss! Ha
Dump this guy now like I have been begging.
Kevin says
Only 7 Lakers wins have come vs teams .500 or better. Denver twice, Houston, Memphis, Clippers, Boston, Atlanta.
Kobe shots % is bad but what’s worse is how he gets them. It’s all ISO (this is mostly coming out of timeouts) if the coaches find a way to get Kobe the ball in motion i.e. coming off double screens, a stagger screen then he would have a option to make a play instead he’s stuck with having to make a shot.
Look at plays that get Wade, Allen, Jason Terry open. Should run a play instead of clearing out giving Kobe (at 33) the ball.
The Dude Abides says
@15 – IMO, that would be a mistake, as MWP is still an above-average defender, and his offense is beginning to show some signs of life. And yes, I think that everyone but Jim Buss knows that shipping off Lamar was a huge mistake.
Tra says
Coach Brown:
” … So if I was just a stats guy, the guy who should be playing at the small forward spot is Devin Ebanks — because he’s shooting better than you or Matt (Barnes).”
I guess he was referring to the D-League because that’s where Ebanks was just sent to.
Possible free agent signing?
Robert says
The Suns, our upcoming opponent, have a star player who we could use, and for whom we probably could offer the best deal. However, just like Magic, the Suns will probably go the FA route. Further, the other similarity is if they go this route, one of the most likely destinations for the player in question is Cuban. Like him or not, he is outfoxing us at every turn. They swept us, they got LO for nothing, and they have the inside track on players we need.
Kevin says
Robert- Dallas is set up for some big time moves in the summer. I can see D-Will bolting NJ for his hometown but not Dwight. Every indication suggest he wants to be the main guy wherever he goes and he won’t be there. His situation is similiar to Kobe in 07. What’s yet to be seen is if they make a move to entice him to stay.
Ken says
Steven A Smith on ESPN radio now is just going off on the Lakers pointless guards and is putting ALL the blame not on Mitch but Jimmy.
He asked why would you give away your mid level exception on McRoberts who never plays. This after giving away LO. Now still have no PG?
We could get Smith if we had not picked up Walton’s bench buddy Josh!
Ken says
BigCity
Brown gave the team the day off because they are such a cohesive offensive juggernaut. So make the one day off. .
He will complain by Sunday they don’t get enough practice time.
Robert says
1/2Decaf @20: I think I have long since established myself as some1 who is hoping Mitch ends up being a genius. My only parameter is keep Kobe. The whole roster, picks, TPE, cash, Jeannie, everything for D12 and I will be happy.
Kevin: Cuban has won a championship, and now he is pulling off a “blow it up” re-building on the fly. Whether he gets D12 or not, it is sheer genius.
tviper says
Brown is a joke. As someone said on a previous thread, he is nothing more than a used car salesman that convinced Jimmy he could coach. Enough with the Fisher nonsense, he can’t play anymore. Start GLock and let him work his way into form by the playoffs. He has confidence and can score. Whatever mythical benefits that Fisher supposedly provides will not be missed after a few games of GLock giving us 15/5.
robinred says
sheer genius.
___
Nah. “More foresight than the Lakers” is not “sheer genius.”
And again, WADR, I think you are a bit too focused on Howard. If he was what you seem to think he is, Orlando would have a couple of banners up. Plus, take away the Veto and Paul and Howard might be here right now. Cuban’s genius wouldn’t help him much in that case.
That said, your D12 stuff does reinforce the point that Bynum isn’t Howard or all that clsoe to being Howard.
The lesson to take from Dallas is not that Cuban is a genius–he isn’t–but that he has done a better job than the Lakers’ owners have of getting guys who understand using advanced stats to limt contract commitments, scouting internationally, and picking up role players.
harold says
I think the problem starts with Mike Brown.
We don’t have an offensive system (nor a rotation) that allows players to make the best of the limited practice and playing times.
We have a veteran roster – they’ll be able to figure things out quickly once we establish some consistency. Then we can look for cheap talents that address specific needs… I think that was another beauty of the triangle; we had a system that looked for talents that weren’t sought after by other teams, allowing us to add pieces whose value exceeded their market value.
As it stands, we’re looking for near superstar talents because we want players that can take the load off Kobe – like that’s ever going to happen by adding somebody Kobe does not respect.
Robert says
robinred: With reference to the D12 banners: Shaq never won them there either : ) With reference to Cuban: The genius is that he wins (sweeps us), he is as competitive as us so far this year, and we completely envy his cap space (he will get some big players in any case). OK, if u prefer to call us idiots – fair enough : )
T. Rogers says
Cuban has been at it for a decade with Dallas. They finally won their lone championship. I would stop short of calling him a genius. Competitive? Yes. Genius? No. And last I checked Williams and Howard are not in Mavs uniforms. And there is no guarantee they ever will be.
Kevin says
Another thing Lakers have to pay $50 mil in revenue sharing according to Mark Heisler. That coupled with luxury tax is too hefty a price even for the Lakers. So I’m sure Lakers will trade Pau for a young talent and expiring contracts. This is the only problem I have with Kobe’s contract is it hampers ability to have talent on back end of bench.
Robert says
Well, Cuban is part of my nightmare. There is going to be parade of FA + zero r headed to r roster. Cuban won’t get all of them, but he will get his share. robinred has put me in a bad mood by stating that he was 99% certain that D12 is not coming here : ) I am trying to ignore him. I am also checking this board daily for ideas better than D12, but am always disappointed : )
Ken says
Robert
Would you come here. Fisher-air ball/Metta knocks over 3 guys on the way to a lay-up into the bottom of the net/Murphy line drive that hits DH in the head/Kobe glaring at you after he takes 42 shots but DH misses a free throw/Brown switches the starting lineup 11 times in 10 days while walking up and down the sidelines looking for L.James.
So really Robert if you were Howard would you come here?
Anonymous says
Shaq never won them there either
___
Well, buddy, he didn’t win any HERE until Kobe matured into a star and they hired Phil. Now we have Mike Brown and a 33-year-old banged up Kobe.
I think one way to look at it is this: you said a couple of weeks ago that Buss has “until 3/15 to save this franchise.” I don’t think Howard will commit long-term to a franchise he needs to “save” unless Deron Williams is there to save it with him. IOW, all the reasons you think the Lakers are DOA without Howard are all the reasons I don’t think he would stay if they did get him.
michael h says
I am still not getting the facination with D Howard. We still wouldn’t be a contender even if we got him. He averages 20.1 per, Andrew is at 16.3. Does anyone seriously think that he would even get 20 a night playing with Kobe and Pau? Howard averages 15.1 boards a game. Andrew 12.6. again do you think he would get that many playing with Pau who also averages 10.6 boards? And both he and Andrew average 2.1 blocks per.
But he’s a better defender! Yes but we are already a very good defensive team. We need offense and Howard isn’t a better offensive player. What he has at Orlando is shooters to spread the floor and we don’t have that. What would his numbers be like here were he would get doubles and triples every time he touches the ball. Bye bye 20 points a night.
Currently we have the best big man combo in basketball but we don’t have a point guard or shooters to make that work. I am not saying I wouldn’t take Howard for Bynum, I would but I wouldn’t give up much more then Andrew to get him. We would still have holes to fill with fewer assets to do it with.
It will be interesting to see what happens after the all star game, when trade season begins. Jerry West said that he didn’t anticipate a lot of trades because most teams will be looking to dump salaries, while not to many will be looking to add players. Well guess who has 2 1st round picks and a large TPE and needs to add players? There will be a deal for us. Maybe even JR Smith as well. He tweeted that he had a great meeting with Brown, so we shall see.
Randombobman says
I would just like to see kobe dishing to his teammates more often. I know this won’t fix LA’s problems on offense, but it would probably be a distinctive improvement. Mr. Bean just isn’t up to his career percentages this year. If he can channel his inner Magic Johnson, the Lakers would thrive until a trade goes through.
KL says
#1
That’s an interesting stat to see but you also have to take into account the defense on kobe. He demands defenders, thus giving more opportunities for other players to be wide open. Another thing I would like to add is, it’s usually not just about statistics. It’s the fear you create in your opponent. The moment your opponent respects you as a clutch player, you get the chance to predict what he’s going to do. Correct me if i’m wrong, that is why Gasol was able to tip-in a couple games ago. It’s winning games and as said above, lakers are 9-3.
Gabriel R. says
At best Kobe is still top tier.
He still demands double teams, it’s just the rest of the team doesn’t make them pay for the doubles.
At worst, Kobe is a great decoy.
Either way at this point, the team benefits as Kobe is contributing, its just his supporting cast. They go hot and cold, and too many have a limited skillset to depend on when they get cold on one part of their game, they have nothing else to rely on.
As for McRoberts, the man one of those described limited skillset players. Nothing wrong with him, if you use him in the proper role/context.
A nice point guard would sure help a player like him. But McRoberts needs to develop a well-rounded game either way, PG help or not.
Bye.
Cdog says
Well, noone is taking into account that if the Lakers do manage to trade for DH while only using Bynum or only using Pau + scraps, then they would have a legitimate opportunity to trade for DWill as well.
If Dwight doesn’t go there, Dwill will want out, and it wouldn’t make sense for NJ to keep him past the deadline. While there would be plenty of bidders – he would be in the same situation as Dwight and only tell people that he will sign extensions at certain places.
Dallas is only in the mix if Dwill gets to free agency with no dwight. And if both get to free agency, it would be almost impossible for Dallas to clear enough room to get them both without each of them taking a significant pay cut.
Remember by changing teams they are already sacrificing something like $30 million (assuming they’d get a max with the team they stayed.)
For Dallas to get low enough to even offer them relatively decent money, they would have to manage to get rid of every single player on their team but Dirk. Thats a heft feat, cuz its not like NBA owners are going to want to help facilitate a dynastic team in Dallas, so that its Dallas/Miami for the next 9 years.
Rudy says
I’ve got a hypothetical question for everyone on FB&G: If Kobe didn’t win 5 rings, would he be seen as selfish, much like Carmelo Anthony is?
I personally don’t understand and strongly disagree that Carmelo Anthony is this selfish player who needs to adapt to Jeremy Lin. As Lakers fans, we know that with the way Kobe is playing (24 shot attempts per game), he would be getting killed for constantly staying in attack mode had he not had any rings thus far.
Us Kobe fans will argue that with winning 5 rings that he has earned the right to play this way, but I would also argue that Carmelo Anthony never played with Shaq or was never coached by Phil Jackson.
Just wanted to get everyone’s take on this and if you all agree that Carmelo Anthony is getting unfairly labeled right now.
Robert says
robinred @34 (u correct?): Portions of ur statements are inadvertently espousing an “it is hopeless” mentality. Hence, I am not listening : ) Yet : )
1/2Decaf: We are in lockstep on the desired result. However I have concern that the Magic will pull a Cleveland.
Cdog: The NBA already helped the Dallas dynasty possibilities with the Veto. They will also help because everyone hates us. We will have the best deal for the Magic and for that matter Phoenix. However neither wants to deal with what is perceived to be the evil empire.
T. Rogers says
Michael H is spot on. This “Dwight Howard will save the day” theme is very shortsighted. LA has the best PF/C combo in the league. They have many issues as a team, but post play is not one of them.
Kevin says
35) If Dwight played with 2 other elite players he’d be better, team defense would be better, stats would get better too. Think of all the missed tip-ins or dunk opportunities Bynum gets. Those are converted with Howard easy. While the only way Howard winds up in LA if Orlando does a Bynum-Howard swap there’s no denying he would be better with 2 elite talents on a team.
I agree with Goudelock starting get him some experience.
VoR says
Looks like JR Smith, as expected, has passed on the Lakers.
I also feel Michael H is spot on. *As long as Bynum is healthy* that is not the Lakers’ need right now.
Robert says
Kevin: I am welcoming u to the club. U have substantially tapered ur optimism and u r on board with D12. Love it : )
Anti D12 Posters: Please tell me an alternate plan – I am all ears. Most of u want to keep the Big 3 intact, but the Lakers can’t even pull off a simple JRS deal? It is going 2 be Gilbert type players if we go this route. Or worse, we trade Pau 4 youngsters, which is really just setting us up 4 re-build. Hoping the Lakers magically add a fourth star is great, but there is no credible plan for that. Phoenix is the best plan I am aware of, and see earlier comment about evil empire.
Busboys4me says
Steven A. Smith is FOS. The Lakers made a trade that would have done what the League complained about. It would have gotten us under the luxury tax, and therefore showing that we were trying to show that we were not just spending more than everyone else. Chris Paul never forced a trade to the Lakers, so his point is BS. How do the owners feel about the trade now that all of the players who were traded are trying to get out of NO!?! So NO may have whoever they trade for Kaman and nothing else. Steven A.’s points are terrible.
MannyP says
Robert – the D12 talk is tiring as is the rebuilding talk. I frankly think it should be banned under the trade speculation rule, but thankfully, I am not a moderator.
DirtySanchez says
The FO using the MLE on McRoberts, why he doesnt get any PT is a mystery, is justified considering there where no quality guards available at that price this offseason. Plus the deal for Paul was probably in the works at the time which would have solved that issue immediately. I like Stephen S. for his over the top personality, but he is a loud mouth that can talk himself red in the face at times.
The Ides of March will be upon us soon, then and only then will us fans be able to tell what direction the FO is headed in. It is just too much gossip and fictional stories floating around to get a real feel for the future of this current squad.
inwit says
The Chris Paul trade veto was not about the Lakers – it was about Blake Griffin and marketing. Stern had the chance (because the league owns the Hornets) and it will be interesting to see if the league buys Kaman out so he can go to the Heat.
But that would be too obvious, wouldn’t it?
Kevin says
Robert, I’m on board still think it’s a longshot but wouldn’t be suprised if it happened.
Stephen A. Smith has a valid point. Fish is 37 while he’s clutch fans have been clamoring for PG for years now. If ownership had drafted a PG earlier and let fish groom him Lakers would be in good shape. Instead they had to pull of a blockbuster deal which fell through now stuck with no valid options other than most likely having to trade away our biggest asset. Ownership isn’t 100% to blame but if you knew you were veering away from PJ at least draft one last year.
T. Rogers says
Robert,
My issue is the implication that getting Howard (while losing Bynum and Gasol) will somehow turn the Lakers into a juggernaut. When you look at LA’s weaknesses (3pt shooting, lack of athleticism on the wings, sluggish offense, etc.) Howard alone doesn’t fix any of those things. And if Gasol and Bynum are sent to Orlando for Howard then no other major pieces will follow. Maybe a quality player can be had for the Trade Exception, but that remains to be seen. Lastly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Orlando is insisting on both Gasol and Bynum because they know it will tie the Lakers hands down the line.
Dave M says
Mitch doesn’t negotiate with himself. There have to be willing trade partners. Barring a possible Arenas or JR pickup, what we have is what we have at this point. I’m surprised we’re only 5 games out of 1st right now – I’ll take it. I’m not as interested in our weakest players, as I am in our top 3 – I want to see Brown maximize their effectiveness. The icing on the cake would be a consistent outside stroke from one of our shooters. That also requires some level of consistent minutes – shooters don’t always do well with guessing games.
Robert says
T Rogers: All true – good post – my only add would be that a “juggernaut” is what I want. I do not want the 6th best team. Others who are OK with the 6th best team – that is fine – I can “tolerate” their view. So agreed – D12, might not be the answer, but then again there may not be an answer. And this makes me depressed : (
Snoopy2006 says
Steven A Smith is a moron. Dwight Howard is almost as annoying:
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/dwight-howard-goes-on-rant-about-fourth-quarter-touches-even-after-the-magic-win/
After MWP and Delonte West (and maybe Lebron’s narcissistic personality disorder), I’m leaning toward Howard as the most likely NBA player to have some psychological disorder. He spends all his time (rightfully so) complaining about his lack of help. And when his teammates step up and win him the game? He complains that he didn’t get to do it.
The man is a diva, flip-flops more than a politician, wants to be loved by everyone but can’t figure out how to go about it. Like I’ve said before, he’s a tremendous talent, and if he comes to LA, I’ll have to support him. But his off-court personality is just so unlikeable, in just my opinion.
With that said, I don’t think even the most ardent pro-Howard pushers believe that he will turn us around immediately. He doesn’t solve our most gaping problems. I think people like Robert are pushing for it because they see no way to turn this current roster into a contender, and believe we should acquire a future cornerstone while we have the assets to.
The problem is, Howard is almost sure to opt out (according to Coon, I haven’t had the time to learn the new CBA). I don’t like verbal agreements/promises, because I don’t think Howard is any more mature or trustworthy than Boozer. There’s major risk involved.
rr says
Dave,
Other than perhaps playing Kobe off the ball more, I don’t see anything that Brown can do to make Kobe, Pau, and Andrew “more effective” in a game-changing, substantive way. As many of us have said,there are things Brown can do at the margins. He has done two so far:
1. Playing Goudelock instead of Kapono.
2. Cutting Fisher’s minutes and using Blake late.
But the Lakers’ roster and skill deficiencies run deep, and the team is old and unlikely to improve much if at all, except at the margins. Two guys with possible growth curves, Ebanks and McRoberts, are in the DLeague, and getting DNPCDs, respectively. Bynum is 24, but after several knee injuries that have reduced his athleticism and in his 7th year, he is unlikely to get much if any better.
Goudelock is 22 or 23, but he is a four-year college player with a limited skillset and limited size. He may improve a bit but his ceiling is low. That is why he was taken 46th.
So, this is why discussion here has trended towards possible roster moves and the FO. And, again, this is not just random guys venting on the internet. This is pretry much where the KBros and others are as well.
However, nothing is likely to happen until after the ASG, and afer March 1, when guys signed this year can be traded.
rr says
Robert,
There is no reason that I can see to think that
a) Howard will stay here for five or six years.
b) That throwing the kitchen sink at him would make the Lakers more than the 6th-best team this year or next.
Not to say you are wrong to want him–he is Dwight Howard. You might make a case he would pull Williams here with him in an S/T, but the cap problems make that VERY unlikely. More likely–Howard bails and joins Williams in Brooklyn or Dallas. But it is what it is.
The Lakers were about the 6th-best team with Shaq here from 96 to 99, until Phil showed up and Kobe grew up.
Aaron says
35)
Everyone agreed with this post which is somewhat suprising. But it’s so spot on. Is Dwight Howard a little better than Andrew Bynum? Probably. Maybe. Maybe not. Offensively every scout agrees Bynum is better. Defensivley the synergy stats (for what that’s worth) last year in the second half of the season Bynum was ranked ahead of Howard for positively effecting a teams defense. He is a better FT shooter, a better passer, and bigger and stronger. But as I say in every post think this… Howard is better because he never gets hurt and he is always in perfect game shape (Bynum naturally doesmt have good wind. It takes him months of playing to get in game shape). But yes, at their best Bynum might have the highest ceiling. The Lakers have always gambled on the best player… In this case because of health I wouldn’t bet the house on the guy with the most upside. I would take Howard in a second. Michael is right though… It wouldn’t help the Lakers much. We still need a PG.
Aaron says
Amd nobody is allowed to bring up Stephen A Smith points on this site. He says crazy things to get attention and ratings. I’m not saying he doesmt know basketball… I’m sure if you had a private conversation with him he would be very knowledgable. But on air he has a business to run.
rr says
Aaron–are you a mod now? ;-
LT mitchell says
Dwight obviously will not solve our PG issues, but he would help to improve in other areas that the Lakers are struggling with or have concerns about:
– improved athleticism and speed, a major weakness on this team.
– durability at the center position, a major concern every year.
– passing from the center position
– transition defense
– pick and roll defense
– transition offense
– pick and roll offense
– giving up offensive rebounds to opponents, Dwight solves this issue singlehandedly.
– more open looks for our struggling outside shooters.
– the future outlook of the Lakers after Kobe retires.
– ability to draw free agents, namely PGs.
– increase in franchise value.
Going after Dwight is a no brainer.
mindcrime says
Bdog–Stephen A Smith is to basketball commentary what Bill O’Reilly is to political commentary–if you don’t get it, go look up the lineup on Fox News–translation–they are both bombastic demagogues who say whatever is necessary to create as big a firestorm of chatter amongst their respective viewerships as possible–regardless of facts or credibility
cheers
Robert says
Snoopy @56: In ur 2nd to last paragraph, u may have just explained my position better than I have : ) Thanks
Bdog @63: I agree. I find the whole discussion very entertaining. The one’s I disagree with r the most entertaining.
1/2Decaf: We have until 03/15 to dream my friend.
Aaron says
BDog,
If a serious man says something serious I take it seriously. If a clown pulls out a forty foot scarf from his mouth I don’t think it’s a real scarf but I’m still entertained. Stephen A is for entertainment value not for basketball value. That’s what he decided to be years ago. It has worked for him and I like him. But he isn’t someone to be taken seriously… Just like Charles Barkley. If he says something crazy tomorrow about the Lakers being great I won’t take it seriously either. Stephen A tries to rile up Lakers fans on 710 to get ratings. It’s a successful business model for sports radio
T. Rogers says
Stephen A. Smith probably doesn’t believe the things that come out of his mouth. He doesn’t speak his own thoughts. He says things that will either get a rise out of people (Laker fans in particular) or he says things that he hopes will endear him to certain peolpe. I stopped taking him seriously a long time ago. Reading and listening to his comentary during the lockout simply reminded me why I stopped pay attention to him.
Smith’s sole purpose on his radio show is to rile up Laker fans. That is his gig.
Magic Phil says
@66 – Well said. Also, I believe the Lakers has the best package to offer to Orlando.
Just my opinion.
rr says
Hollinger:
__
To calculate BAD, I started with every player with a PER below 12. I subtracted his PER from 12, and multiplied by his minutes played. For example, a player with a PER of 10 and 200 minutes played would add 400 BAD points for his team.
___
Not surprisingly, the Lakers are “#1” in the NBA in this metric. PER is a blunt tool but not a useless one.
Kevin says
For all the guys who rag on Pau the consensus seems to be Pau & Howard are best bigs in league check this out ( sorry to drown you with stats)
Pau is the 66th best offensive player in the league (Kobe is 144th), 38% in Iso, 8th in post up offense, 5th in offensive rebounds and the most assists as big man in league DEF: 31th overall defensive player, 12th post up defense
Dwight is 108th best offensive player, 28% in Iso, 5th in PnR, 22nd in offensive rebounds DEF: 148th overall defensive player in league, 74th post up defense, avg. 15 rebounds
People I’ll continue to say it Pau is the best big man in the league when aggressive.
mindcrime says
Re: “BAD”
Now there’s an advanced metric I can get behind
rr says
mindcrime–
Well, the issue is: how much can the Lakers move forward by adding a league-average PG and a wing player who can create shots?
The Hollinger article focuses on Lin, and how one reason the Knicks have spurted forward is that they basically replaced waiver-level guys with a guy playing, at the moment, like an All-Star. They were 8-15 when Lin entered the lineup. They are 15-15 today.
Robert’s position is that such changes don’t matter here–all they will do is make the the Lakers the “6th best team.” Others believe that such changes are far more critical than getting Howard since Bynum and Gasol are very fine players themselves.
We will know at some point what Jim Buss and Mitch Kupchak believe. Buss, of course, has been quoted as saying that he will not give up Pau and Drew for Howard.
mindcrime says
rr–re “BAD”
If it wasn’t clear, I agree with you. I wasn’t being sarcastic. The “BAD” stat you created brings into relief the problem LA has–All Star (or borderline AllStar) play at three spots and barely above D-League play at the other two. My son and I regularly say to each other during games that LA would be a clear “contender” if they had only an average PG and an only average SF (ok–they need an “average” backup SG as well, but not as badly).
Which means–tadaaaa–I am now officially in agreement with Aaron on a point, which means the apocalypse is now upon us (sorry Aaron, had to poke a little fun)
Funky Chicken says
rr, I think there is a relatively simple change that Brown can make that would make Kobe, Pau, and Drew more effective: replace Fisher & MWP in the starting lineup with Goudelock and Barnes (or Ebanks).
Such a move would not significantly hurt the Lakers on defense, as Fisher is the worst defensive PG around, and MWP is best against bigger, slower small forwards–who aren’t that plentiful. The move would, however, make the Lakers significantly better offensively. They’d be considerably quicker, and greatly improved at outside shooting (and, correspondingly, better floor spacing that would help the big 3).
To me, the arguments against Goudelock in the starting lineup are weak. Nobody knows what his ceiling is. He never played PG in college, so the upside is pretty significant as he learns the position. Another guy we’ve all been talking about as “the answer” didn’t play PG in college: Deron Williams. DWill was a shooting guard at Illinois, and as a result nobody really knew what his upside was.
Not saying that Goudelock is another DWill, but the point is that he has upside, is already better than Fisher, he would immediately make the Lakers floor spacing better and would open up the middle for the bigs, and sometimes (like with DWill, or Lin) a guy gets a starting role and really thrives….
rr says
Free-agent swingman J.R. Smith currently lists on his Twitter page the New York Knicks, Los Angeles Clippers, Los Angeles Lakers, Orlando Magic, Chicago Bulls and Indiana Pacers as teams he is considering.
However, the Knicks and Clippers appear to be the front-runners to sign him, according to the source with knowledge of the talks.
Clippers coach Vinny Del Negro said Wednesday that he has spoken to Smith recently and that the conversation went “very, very well.”
The Knicks remain the presumptive favorites to sign Smith because they can offer him a pro-rated share of their $2.5 million mini-midlevel exception and a player option for a second year. The New York Daily News reported Thursday that the two sides are closing in on a deal.
____
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7580586/source-los-angeles-clippers-new-york-knicks-frontrunners-jr-smith
Robert says
rr @77: Good post + Fair point in ur second to last paragraph. Maybe I will have u and Snoopy do all of my posting for me, as u seem to be summing things up well : ) In any case, I will always root for the Lakers strongly, without regard to whether we have the favorites, or the 6th best team !!!!
rr says
Funky,
Very few players picked 46th in the draft are ever more than rotation guys. Ginobili was picked pretty low; so was Parker. But they of course are both foreign players. Lin is a special case as well. Gilbert Arenas was a second-rounder. So, it’s not that it doesn’t happen, but it is quite unlikely. Goudelock is not an elite athlete. He does not appear to have great court vision or handle skills. He is an instant offense guy off the bench.
As to Barnes, he was starting. Barnes’ game relies a lot on energy, and from what I have seen, he gets exposed playing more minutes. He has trouble finishing, and is not a particularly good shooter, passer, or ballhandler. He is also 31 years old.
Not that you’re wrong–starting Goudelock (or Blake) and Barnes is fine with me. I have been pushing for Blake to start since pre-season. But as I explained, I would see it as a move at the margins.
rr says
Robert,
To be clear, I am not saying you’re wrong on the D12 issue. You may be dead-on. Just saying that I don’t see it as clear-cut.
Dave M says
rr –
I’m not so sure there isn’t more Brown can do with our big 3 – he’s only been coaching these guys for two months. Pau himself had some pretty specific views about his role not long ago. I think there’s always opportunities for a head coach to maximize his best resources (apart from minutes played). At least I hope so, because the alternative isn’t real appealing.
rr says
At least I hope so, because the alternative isn’t real appealing.
_____
With you on that. One issue I see is that all three of them, even Kobe, are at their best closer to the basket. I think Kobe should be working on the block more these days, but, well, it’s a little crowded down there.
Kirk says
I was on the fence regarding Arenas, but Hollinger’s BAD article swayed me to believe that signing Arenas is the right move. The FO only has so many moves they can make, and most of them will depend on other teams, e.g., a trade with them, or other teams offering much more money to JR.
As others have mentioned, PER is not the end all, be all stat, but it’s a useful snapshot. Arenas’ atrocious performance with the Magic dragged his 10-11 season down to a 10.8 PER season, equivalent to what Goudelock is giving the team right now, but he was a league average-ish player with Washington at 14. In his shortened 09-10 season, he had a PER over 18. The Lakers only need to bring in someone that is not a disaster to upgrade. Sign Arenas, give him and Blake most of the minutes, play more Barnes than WMP, and suddenly the PG and SF spots could be a lot stronger.
rr says
Interesting piece up at SSR about line-up combos (Darius has talked about this some):
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2012/2/16/2801521/lakers-line-ups-two-plus-two-doesnt-always-equal-four#storyjump
rr says
One note from that piece: according to the author, Steve Blake and Matt Barnes have played 27 minutes–all year–with the Big 3. In those 27 minutes, the Lakers’ ORTG is 118 and the DRTG is 102.
Small sample, of course. But food for thought.
Lakers8884 says
Bdog, people don’t realize this about Stephen A Smith but he also called the big 3 joining in Miami a full two weeks before it happened and everyone thought he was crazy then too. Say what you want about the guy but players like him, respect him, and trust him with information. You may think he isn’t credible but his connections are real and concrete.
Funky Chicken says
rr, you may well be right in suggesting that starting Goudelock might only marginally improve the situation. I’m just saying that based on what I’ve seen to date, a marginal improvement is the LEAST you could expect from such a move–while retaining the possibility of enjoying significant upside.
I won’t argue that AG is another Ginobili or Parker (or even Lin); but I would contend that the Lakers don’t need anyone nearly as good as those guys in order to be radically better. Zero production from Fisher isn’t just a “0” in the stat sheet; it also results in FAR more difficulty for Kobe, Pau, and Bynum.
The Lakers have essentially become like a really bad version of the Celtics, with a PG that need not be guarded. Unlike the Celtics, our PG lacks the quickness to push the ball up the floor, the inability get into the lane, and has no capacity to defend (all of which Rondo can do). Moreover, the presence of MWP in the starting lineup means that (unlike with Pierce in Boston) the Lakers have absolutely nobody to pull defenses out to the perimeter.
The problem with Fish (or at least one of many) is that he’s not the least bit effective with the ball in his hands. That means Kobe, bad wrist/fingers and all, must be the primary ball handler. Without a SF to spread the floor, every possession becomes a half court affair, with defenses packing the paint to clog things up for Laker bigs, cutting off driving angles for Kobe. That leaves KB with little else but to pound the rock and shoot pull up jumpers, or to dump the ball inside to bigs who are well covered. It’s totally easy to defend, and it’s the result of playing 3 on 5. Merely having a 4th and 5th option on offense (even if only at a “below average” level rather than “league worst” level) would be a pretty big improvement….
VoR says
rr- good pick up – that SSR article is fascinating.
Robert says
Wow: The D12 club is large on this board: We have BigCity, 1/2Decaf, Kevin, Lt Mitchell, and Magic Phil just on this thread. And I am making rr an honorary member : )
Bdog: U can laugh all u want, because that is what all of this is for, however, what is ur plan, cause from ur posts, I have u in the “We are doomed” club.
rr says
Funky,
Nice post with well-stated points. I would prefer, based on options they have right now, that they start Blake with Kobe, sign Arenas, play Goudelock and Arenas off the bench, send Morris to the DLeague for reps/minutes, and make Fisher the 11th man/clubhouse leader (Kapono as 12th man–Walton doesn’t dress).
And I would tell Blake, Goudelock, and Arenas that any of them–maybe even two of them with Kobe at the 3–might finish a close game with Kobe on a given night depending on matchups and performance.
Magic Phil says
@94 – Yes, I’m in for DH. Is not that he’s my main priority (PG is my main priority), but if we land DH, a good PG will follow.
Also, I don’t think there’s a better package for Orlando than Bynum.
It’s all about making sense. I have a friend, Orlando fan, he wants Bynum desperatly, it all make sense.
James says
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PERDiem-120216/nba-secret-jeremy-lin-success-new-york-knicks
Hollinger shows how much the 1 and 3 are hurting us, however it also shows how much we can improve our record with additions at those position
Funky Chicken says
rr, let me add to the thanks for the link to the article. It was really quite interesting, and confirmed a lot of my suspicions.
Starting Blake would definitely be an improvement, and according to that article, probably a huge one. Interestingly, playing Blake & Barnes is by far the best statistical pairing for offensive purposes, which really is no surprise when you consider how those two guys pressure defenses (compared to Fish & MWP) and how that allows the other stars more room to operate.
I admit to having a fondness for Goudelock, and being very intrigued by his upside. However, if he played a prominent role as the lead guard of the 2nd unit, alongside someone like Arenas (who I, too, have come around to now wanting the Lakers to sign), I’d be satisfied for now.
The one thing that jumped out for me from the SS&R article was how Kobe & Bynum is a better statistical pairing than Kobe & Pau, and how McRoberts & Bynum fare better than McRoberts & Pau. What this suggests to me, is that trading Pau for a legit PG would probably be the single best way to make this team a title contender. (edited for trade speculation).
In the end, this suggests to me that there are several options that can make this team better–some involving current players only (maybe adding Arenas, which should be simple).
Snoopy2006 says
JR Smith is apparently going to sign with NY. Considering the Lin phenomenon and how many Asians come out to MSG to support him, let’s hope JR’s sister decides to watch from home.
Aaron says
MindCrime,
I don’t take offense. If I can convert one person at a time to atheism I have done my job. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Aaron says
Hmmm. Did I need stats to tell me Bynum is better than Gasol and GLock is better than fisher and Blake and Blake is much better than Fisher? No. But it never hurts. Pretty great breakdown of lineup combos on the Lakers. Amazing how the Lakers defense is so much better with Artest and Bynum on the floor and how much better our offense is with GLock at PG with the starters. You knew all this but the extremes is what has to be a suprise to most.
http://mobile.silverscreenandroll.com/2012/2/16/2801521/lakers-line-ups-two-plus-two-doesnt-always-equal-four
Jeremy says
I’ve decided that any trade of Pau should also require a dumping of MWP’s contract.
DirtySanchez says
Some great information from SSR. Two things I took from the information.
First-Artest and Fish are definitely in the situational stage of their career. Im pretty sure Fish could handle a smaller role, its MWP that makes the hair on my neck stand up when I think how he might self destruct.
Second- Why o Why is McRoberts glued to the bench. Is the FO trying to hide him thinking other teams might want him packaged for future deals. Energy and youth is what this squad needs and he cant get off the bench.
Robert says
Kevin: If that deal is done alone – I agree – disaster. However – I believe if it gets done – it is only part of a much bigger scheme. A set of numbers that add up to 12.
DirtySanchez says
Every player on a TEAM cant be a 20 point scorer. Hustle and doing the little things go a long way when you have the likes of Bryant, Pau, and Drew. Any team that has been successful has had a McRoberts on their roster.
Funky Chicken says
Kevin, if you haven’t checked it out yet, look at the article at SS&R. Kobe & Bynum are a much more effective pairing than Kobe & Pau (when comparing those two pairs with the other big not in the game). Moreover, Blake’s presence in the lineup dramatically improves offensive efficiency.
What this demonstrates is that the Lakers’ most dire need is a PG who can push the ball, penetrate, and shoot from the outside. That kind of a player, teamed with the best SG and 2nd best center in the league is a title contending team. The current roster is not.
Trading Howard for Bynum would probably represent a marginal improvement. Trading Pau for DWill would likely be a huge improvement. Trading for either, however, is probably not going to happen….
Kevin says
Robert- I see where your going with this. lol
DirtySanchez- Lakers are a halfcourt team who struggle to score and McRoberts isn’t a offensive player. Early on he was effective catching lobs on fastbreaks but the Lakers don’t get many transition points. So his ineffectiveness on offense far outweighs his help side defense and energy plays. That’s why Murphy plays he gives the bigs space down low McRoberts doesn’t.
MannyP says
Kevin and Robert: I hate to be a grumpy old man, but have you guys read the guidelines on trade speculation for this site?
DirtySanchez says
Kevin
With GLock getting more minutes at the backup point position and Barnes at the 3, McRoberts fits right in on the second squad compared to a cement booted Murphy. Dude can be utilized other than warming the bench. I blame Brown for not finding some way for him getting at least 10/15 minutes of PT a game.
Kevin says
111) I know not of these guidelines you speak of?
DirtySanchez, Agree Brown could find minutes for him when Murphy isn’t producing. His toe inury was bad timing too.
Zephid says
There’s a tab called “Commenting Guidelines” above. Good advice for anyone who hasn’t read them.
I think we’re going to let Pau to Wolves talk slide for a bit because there are some substantial rumors out there.
chownoir says
Can’t blame people for not knowing about the guidelines. #3-8 and #10 have been ignored pretty much nonstop for a while now.
Ken says
Keith
I actually brought it up on Laker talk. Swen feels Andrew has more upside then Howard. He also feels AB takes to many plays off on defense and should rebound much better.
Bottom line hard work and hustle can trump sheer talent. If AB played as hard and Howard he could be the best center in the league. This comes from a guy who had much less athletic talent but led the league in rebounds 2 years.
Question? Do we need more rebounding and defense or players that can penetrate and shoot?
The Dude Abides says
@112 – The guidelines are also highlighted very poorly on this page. I’ve been a moderator for 2 1/2 years and I’ve never noticed them before.
One thing I’m almost ready to do is to start deleting comments that use “2” instead of “to,” that use “4” instead of “for,” and that use “u” instead of “you” and “r” instead of “are.”
So u guys have been warned, I’m itching 2 delete some of this stuff.
Kevin says
Woah!! The rook may be our savior in spot up shots he shooting 30-42 72% that’s crazy good. Steve Blake is 37-102 34%. And in shocking news Fisher is 26%.
Start the rook he’ll save us from mediocrity.
Chearn says
Unfortunately, I think McHops is trade bait. In the small forward position, Orlando will not take MWP and they can’t or wouldn’t take Barnes back. So the only solution is McHops, a young athletic player. Additionally, McHops and Bynum have a very good relationship. They walk in and out of the tunnel together, and when I saw them Bynum waited on McHops after he was delayed in the locker room.
Earlier this season when they were in the game together they looked to pass the ball to each other.
I’m don’t know anything about contracts, so I’m not sure how a Bynum and McHops trade would work. But this trade allows the Lakers to keep Pau, whom Howard previously said he could see them playing together. Or something like that.
Aaron says
Yes… It is pretty amazing that the Lakers best PG on both sides of the ball by far (GLock) is literally getting zero minutes at PG since Blake came back. There is no excuse for this. EXCEPT….. the Lakers aren’t stupid. GMs are big picture people. What if we started GLock? He would play sensationally in the starting unit and would almost certainly have to be included in a trade for Howard or DWill. I have a feeling we are hiding him as much as we can right now until the trade deadline. That’s the only thing I can think of that makes sense. I mean it doesn’t just have to be a Howard or Williams trade. Say Gasol gets traded for a SF and PF. The Lakers won’t have to include GLock as of now. All of the sudden you make a Gasol trade to plug the SF hole and get back a PF. Now you insert GLock in the PG spot and you have a lineup of let’s says GLock, Kobe, Derek Williams, Michael Beasely and Bynum. Just saying.
VoR says
Dude,
Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one who gives a $#!$ about the rules? Delete those posts!
Ken says
Aaron you are giving Mitch way to much credit.
Walton/Metta/Fisher/McRoberts/Murphy/Kapono
Farmer/Sasha,/Brown/Odom/all ex-scouts.
Enough said.
Oh I forgot.Mike Brown
Way to much credit in FO to hide anyone. Next you’ll tell us they are hiding Eubanks and Walton!
rr says
My understanding about trade spec is that it is not OK to say, “How about if the Lakers trade Jones to Mudville for Johnson” if there are no “Jones for Johnson” rumors out there.
Given all the rumors out there about the Lakers at the moment, including rumors being discussed by sourced, nationally-known writers, I think most of what is being said is pretty much fair game. Jim Buss has been asked directly about Howard, for example.
Aaron says
By the way (edited) However the reason if you’re the Lakers you trade Gasol for something other than a Pg is simple. PGs are a dime a dozen in this league. The Knicks just found a starting PG in the D league. The Lakers just got a solid PG late in the second round. Every team has two very good PGs. They are everywhere. Some have three. The Lakers know they can get a quality player at PG very easily. Unless DWill is available Gasol will not be traded for just a PG. There are only a few PGs I would trade Gasol straight up for (Rose, Westbrook, CP3, and DWill). Everyone else is basically all in the same category and there are about 40 of them. I’m sure the Lakers know this and I’m sure they are plotting to trade Gasol to plug the SF hole and to bring back another PF in return. I’m just saying dont be suprised if a PG doesn’t come back in return for Gasol. As we’ve seen though out the last many years… PGs do grow on trees.
DirtySanchez says
Lets just hope that LO doesnt have Pau’s number on speed dial. I have a feeling the next two weeks leading up to the trading deadline is about to be a very uncomfortable situation for Pau. His name is about to be dropped more than a pair of Victoria Secrets given on Valentines Day. Hopefully he will be able to handle this crazy time with a level head, as he did in the preseason.
Kevin says
Still don’t get why Gasol is center of trade speculation he’s the reason Lakers won back to back rings. Kobe and Pau contracts run out the same year let them ride off into the sunset together. If you trade Pau ball movement with stop and Bynum will get exposed. Bynum is one dimensional Pau is the best in the league.
Darius Soriano says
I’ve been sick and in bed for most of the day but understand that I’m tightening the reigns again on comments about trade speculation. The Pau stuff is simply a rumor at this point. The Howard stuff has been out there for months and nothing has happened yet. Frankly, I’m tired of reading these comments at this site and since I’m in a position to do something about it, I will. So, understand, comments about trading player X for whoever (be it Howard, Deron, or anyone else) will be moderated. If you don’t like it, comment about this stuff somewhere else.
KenOak says
#116 The Dude Abides-
Yes, please delete any of those posts! I can’t believe that I am about to write this, but I think that I agree with Aaron twice tonight! Nice posts.
119 and 123 seem true to me as well. I don’t see why we trade Pau unless we are getting back either those 4 PGs or Rondo. It also feels like maybe we really are hiding Glock.
Ken says
I want to trade Aaron for 2 Roberts, 1 Kevin and a half of a Funky Chicken!
kswagger says
Speaking of PG’s being a dime a dozen, how about Mike James for the Bulls earlier against Boston? he’s on a 10-day contract and showed he can still A) break down defenses off the dribble B) Knock the outside jumper C) defend the quick guards (Rondo). Wouldn’t hurt to sign him for the rest of the season. Brown’s offensive system needs a creator for the PG spot. Sadly, Fisher is not one. Rafer Alston, Allen Iverson, Mike James??? Take your pick. anyone would be an upgrade over Fisher at this point. (Fish, I love you man… but it’s time to go)
Kevin says
Although it hasn’t been ideal for Lakers fans. I think Mike Brown has handled scrutiny and personnel challenges OK so far. It isn’t where we want to be but 5th place isn’t that bad halfway through the season.
How good a job you think Mike Brown is doing, Ken?
Ken says
I think his rotations are very bad. I think his offense is made for a point guard who can control the ball which we don’t have and I feel that players like Metta have intimidated Brown.
Also just like in Cleveland, he has let his star do anything he wants without control. Also brown unlike a true coach like Popovivh, is more interested in the short term wins then the big picture of preserving his big two Kobe and Pau for the post season.
Cavs stopped listening the last 2 years and just ran their own offense. Metta was right about one thing. He is to stats orientated and lacks true coaching feel. He should be only a defensive ass’t coach and nothing more.
My grade for Brown is a D and if things don’t change I could see a team rebellion like there was in Detroit. Oh wait that guy was hand picked to be our offensive coach by Brown.
Make that a D minus!
Kevin says
All valid points Kobe and Pau play way too many minutes. I was critical of offensive identity. Last few games ball movement have been better when Kobe elects to pass first instead of his infamous hesitant passes.
Still want to see more designed plays to get players open to make a play instead of so much Iso. I looked up stats earlier and Lakers are top 10 in everything offense except PnR play PG is a major liability. Defense is playoff ready.
C
Ken says
No cred for my trade above on 126?
Wow we need to lighten up.
Funky Chicken says
Ken, I was obviously just “filler” in your proposed trade, so you’ll excuse me while I pout and contemplate requesting a trade to a different blog….
Robert says
Ken: The way you worded the trade; you are getting rid of Aaron for 2 Roberts, Kevin, and 1/2 of Funky. While I appreciate the fact that you want 2 Roberts, wouldn’t that be a little “repetitive”? Further how much does Aaron make? How does this work in the trade machine? I need to renegotiate my deal.
Ken says
Robert and funky
Aaron was signed to a massive 5 year contract by Mitch. He seldom plays and can barily touch the rim. He can’t go to his left or right and plays zero defense.
As younger players with a huge upside, you two with Kevin are tbe future if our team plus I get rid of a bad untradable contract.
It’s exciting to think we can have quickness, great shooters and team players. I am sure we will be going to Disneyland!
Kevin says
I’ll wave my no trade clause.
I hear David Stern gave Houston a consolidation gift they have the ASG in 2013. He has to throw a cookie LA’s way next, right? Right?
Ken says
Nonisser
You forgot us trading Alaska for Iran then the oil wells to France for Jerry Lewis which we then trade to Hawaii for Obama’s birth certificate and then trade that for Donald Trumps hair which we ship to the NBA office to yell at David Stern “Your Fired”.
Put that in tbe trade machine and smoke it!
Robert says
Ken: You should be safe from violating the speculation rule. You often talk about getting rid of players and coaches, but you usually are not expecting anything back in return : )
Kevin says
Plaschke and Simers have been on fire lately here’s another good read
http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-plaschke-lakers-buss-20120217,0,639112,full.column
Magic Phil says
Wow…many topics.
Stephen A Smith it is indeed a clown. But in a good way. I know, Kobe trusted on him, etc…
But my point is: Why he says DH is not coming to LA? Who can confirm that? Smith? Cool, so give me a decent reason why not. As far as I’m right now, I think the Lakers have the best package to offer. And, BTW, I don’t think DH is the solution to our problems ( a PG is much needed) but I believe that if we land DH, a good PG (and other players) will follow. That’s why I’m hopefull with this trade. Also, I’m against the Bynum + Pau = Howard. It would be something like Bynum + TPE/scrubs = DH…Pau stays.
Regarding Fish…we all agree: The guy can’t play anymore. I’m a big fan of Fish but the guy must sit. Problem is Kobe: He seems to feel better when Fish starts, or it’s just loyalty…But I’m sure Kobe is the reason Fish still a starter.
Regarding Arenas…How was the workout? Did he hit a bunch of shots? It’s all about hitting shots, ask Glock…
Ken says
Plaschke store may be response to a email I sent him about the invisible Miss Buss this year and that Jim and her do not talk.
Like I said big internal problems in Laker FO.
Kevin says
Somehow Ken has been calling these stories ahead of time in my relative short stint on this site. Bad sign if true Jim Buss is botching this thing big time.
Alfahridi says
guys, check out this very interesting article from Silver Screen and Roll
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2012/2/16/2801521/lakers-line-ups-two-plus-two-doesnt-always-equal-four#storyjump
chownoir says
Plaschke and Simers articles being used as evidence? Really guys?
Robert says
JRS is a Knick. Good example of two things: 1) We have no tools with which to sign these guys 2) When momentum builds for a team, players want to flock there.
Hence – when u get a superstar = others follow
Jeremy says
I’m sorry but I cannot take anyone who is disappointed about not landing JR FREAKING SMITH seriously. He is the worst of the worst when it comes to me first players.
rr says
If Howard were to stay…maybe.
Also, due to the pro-rating rules in the CBA, the Knicks could offer 2.3M, whereas the Lakers and Clippers could offer less than 700K.
This does put more pressure on Buss to convert the TPE into a winning move.
rr says
Jeremy,
Smith is far from a model citizen, but he is a talented wing who can put the ball in the basket, and is 25. He would have helped the Lakers quite a bit.
Robert says
rr: Yes, the Knicks used their MMLE. Lakers/Clips do not have that + could only offer vet min. We used our MMLE on McR. With regard the momentum needed that gets players to flock to you: one thing I know for sure, we have little of that now. That must change.
Robert says
Jeremy/rr: You are both correct. rr is correct becasue he could have helped us. This shows how desperate we are. Jeremy is also correct, because in most years the Lakers would look at him as bad news. This year we are looking at JRS, Arenas, Rasheed, and AI’s name even came up. I am waiting for Rodman’s planned comeback as the ultimate example.
azzemoto says
Even this site is not was it use to be. It is 1:15pm ET (9:15am PT) and nothing new since ‘Wednesday Storylines’.
the other Stephen says
the posts are getting a little crazy. i used to come here and read 20 well-rounded and reasoned comments. now there are 150 comments pointing in every which direction and topic.
Darius Soriano says
#150: My apologies for being sick the past couple of days and not getting a new post up. We’ll have some Friday links up soon and also the game preview this afternoon.
rr says
Stephen,
You might consider the possibility that the comments reflect the team’s current situation, rather than reflecting a drop-off in comment quality. Alos, this thread was dsigned to focus on multiple topics.
Also, people have always complained about the team. Last year, there were many complaints after every loss.
azzemoto,
The mods have lives, families, jobs etc. They do great work.
azzemoto says
rr…wah wah wah
R says
Regarding Jim Buss – often sons have a hard time following the act of a successful father. To be charitable.
This worries me more than the Lakers current situation of being old and slow, having a middling record, ect. Every sucessful organization has its slow periods. My worry is that this is more than a mere slow period but is more reflective of Jim Buss (possibly) being an utter fool.
Robert says
Darius: You are too kind. I might have responded diferently : )
Bdog: Still waiting for your plan. I know we are doomed and all, but anything?
R: You think? : )
mindcrime says
Azzemoto:
This is one of the highest-quality sites of its kind by any objective standard. RR is right, Darius and the guys have lives. Hopefully you do too.
SJM