This has seemed like the longest summer ever. While we got some FIBA World Cup basketball to somewhat satiate our thirst of some roundball, it was mostly anti-climactic as the Spanish team failed to advance to the finals and give team USA a proper challenge for the gold. The result was an american romp and me sitting here longing for actual basketball to fill the void.
Which brings me back to the Lakers. Camp is almost here and the team has been coming together recently for workouts and scrimmages. The team is not yet fully formed — there will be more additions, even if only camp bodies — with much work to do on both sides of ball, learning schemes and getting comfortable in how to play together. They will battle the reality that they are simply not as talented as most of the teams in the league while simultaneously trying to prove critics (like me) wrong.
The simple theatre of how this team comes together will be enough for me to watch, but it won’t be the only reason. With that, here are the 5 things I am most looking forward to this season:
1. Kobe’s return. I could pretend to write with some authority about what Kobe will be this season, but it would all be a front. Before his achilles injury, Kobe’s career track was on the same path of guys like Kareem, Karl Malone, and John Stockton. Those players proved to be high caliber contributors well past their prime years, posting PER’s above the league average while contributing to winning teams and padding their career totals. Now, though, Kobe is all question marks. He admits he’ll be a different player, but does so with a defiance that has marked his entire career. The message seems clear: doubt me at your own peril — have you not learned that yet? Watching what he does, how he does it, and how effective it makes him will be the number one storyline all season. Combine that with the reality that he is a legend who is playing in his final games and it will be must watch TV. I, for one, cannot wait.
2. Julius Randle. The last Laker draft pick who came in as highly touted and with as much hope surrounding him was James Worthy. For Randle, though, I’d settle for a guy who performed as well as Eddie Jones did in his rookie campaign. Jones averaged 14 points that season and was named 1st Team All-Rookie. He dazzled fans with his bouncy legs and highlight finishes. He also competed hard on both ends of the floor and showed a professionalism that reminded of past Laker greats. Randle has the talent, work ethic, and opportunity to do the same. Yes, he has some veterans in front of him and a coach that will make him earn his time on the floor, but nothing worthwhile is ever just given. Randle will need to prove he was worth the pick that was used on him. Considering he feels he should have gone higher, he should have the proper motivation to do just that. I can’t wait to watch the rook do his thing.
3. Jordan Clarkson. There is really no good reason for me to like Clarkson as much as I do. As I’ve said before, it really is not rational. While he clearly has some talent, he’s also a second round pick with two veteran point guards in front of him who his head coach will cater to. He has a steep learning curve to be an NBA level point guard and will likely struggle to find the time on the floor he needs to develop. His jumper is not as good as it needs to be at this level and you have to seriously question if his athleticism is good enough to overcome that fact at this stage of his career. To all that I can simply say I do not care. I mean, watch:
I love the way he moves on the floor. I love his body control around the rim. I love that he finds a way to get to the spots he wants to and has the ability to do something with the ball once he gets there. Whether he ever becomes a rotation player will depend on so many factors I can’t even begin to name them all. But I will be rooting hard for this young man.
4. Nick Young doing Nick Young things. I never thought rooting for this guy would be fun. But here I am, watching him do stuff like this and he’s just grown on me:
When he came to the Lakers I bought in to the worst conceptions of him as a player — the ball stopping, the lack of passing, the little to no effort at anything that didn’t involve him trying to get his own shot. After watching him for a year, those things definitely exist as part of his game. But watching him night in and night out also revealed a player who deeply loves the game, cares for his teammates, wants to win, and will actually try at other parts of the game when coached to do so. That didn’t always make him effective at those things, but watching him work at it and watching him have fun while trying was a joy in an otherwise awful season. I look forward to an encore campaign even though I admit I have no clue if he can actually pull it off.
5. Big men doing the dirty work. The Lakers’ history is littered with hall of fame big men. Jordan Hill and Ed Davis will not be mistaken for any of them. What they will do, however, is work their tails off to get that extra possession and make that extra rotation to try and challenge a shot at the rim. What they will do is roll hard to the rim and try to finish with authority. What they will do is bring the effort every night and play as hard as they can with as much skill as they can muster to try and impact the game positively. It will not always go smoothly and there will be times (lots of times) where I will miss the deft passing and smooth post play of the Spaniard, but I will love watching Hill and Davis (and Randle and, hopefully Boozer) go at it hard each night.
mud says
thanks Darius, nice article.
j dog says
Finally something about lakers that make you feel like we have a chance to do something special. …remember what the sun did ?? Go lakers
j dog says
Good stuff to get you ready for camp
Quin says
Player-wise, I’m most interested in seeing if Lin can make people say in hindsight “I knew he was going to have a great year.” But yeah, Clarkson. Young guards are exciting to watch.
Anonymous says
When are u going to give it up, Darius? You suck!!!
JohnnyP says
Darius,
I love this post!
I especially love your wanting to see what Randall and Young do under the whip of Scott and Bryant’s work ethic whip.
I didn’t realize people thought Young slacked on plays not focusing on his scoring and defense. But, it seems our new “dream team” Scott / co-Bryant coaching pair will drive him to be his best.
So YES, (as it did seem like a looooong Summer), I share your enthusiasm and burgeoning excitement for the arrival of real B-Ball replacing all the speculation.
GOOoooOOOOO LAKERS !!!
Rusty Shackleford says
Lakers are due to hit on a 2nd-rounder. Let it be Clarkson; not another Derick Character.
BigCitySid says
Nice piece D. Absolutely looking forward to Kobe version 2014-2015. Primarily his health, secondarily the back court chemistry between him and Lin. I actually believe Kobe & Lin can be a top 10 NBA back court this season. Also very interested in seeing what Boozer has to offer and how the team will respond to Coach Scott.
J C says
Darius, this is one of your best posts.
Enjoyable read and the topic is one we’ve all been waiting for.
Agree, Kobe is THE story line this year. He actually has some things to prove this year and we all know how he usually responds to that.
I really hope he stays healthy.
Say what you might about his polarizing legacy, but he has earned the right to close out his career on his own terms. Let’s see what the basketball gods have in store for him.
Two other storylines I’ll be watching:
1. How does Byron do?
How does the team respond to him?
I originally wasn’t a proponent of his hire but I think the combination of Byron and Kobe together could make for a fairly satisfying season.
I can envision this motivated and scrappy bunch winning 40-42 games this year.
2. The other and literally forgotten subplot, for me, is made all the more tragic by its seeming insignificance.
Steve Nash.
How does this first-ballot hall of famer, consummate teammate, and two-time MVP finish his career?
I know I’m in the minority but I truly hope he, like Kobe, gets a chance to end his career with dignity and on the floor, not on the training table. He’s one of my all-time favorite players and I’m looking forward to a few more highlights.
I’m also proud of Byron for going on record that the starting point guard job is his. Good for him.
Let’s do this.
AW says
I think the lakers will get the 4th or 5th seed in the west ? People forget they had a lot of players missing last season and the lakers tanked on purpose , if kobe would haved played in April the lakers would have won 31 games and been out of the top ten in the draft , so by it being a loaded draft at the top , the lakers shut kobe down !! Now kobe is 100 percent and wil get 24/25 ppg , 5rbg, 6asg, he will be all nba first team and and all star , plus the lakers can beat a lot of eastern conf, teams, that’s 25 wins right thier. And they can get 24/25/26 wins in the west with a heathly team , thier only 3 powerhouse teams in the west , Spurs, OKC, Clippers, after that every other team in the west can be beaten , and also people talk about kobe being 36 lol people look kobe not 76 , he can do anything he wants on the court to score , he will make 7 a nite 2 pointers , a couple of 3’s per game ,and hit about 4 or 5 free throws in 33/35 per game , I see the lakers winning 52 to 54 games this season , the west is just a bunch of names , the Spurs , a old basketball team beat the all the young guns in the west , second OKC is not going to win it this season , now the clippers have a chance to win it , Dallas took the spurs to 7 games in the first round and they added some pieces , but everyone else are not championship teams , I see the lakers getting to the second round , and losing to the spurs or OKC , maybe Dallas , and if that happens I can see a impact free agent or 2 coming to the lakers in 2015 , ie Greg monroe , rudy gay ,Marc gasol, Eric Bledsoe , klay Thompson , rajon rondo , any two of those players would put us in the title hunt !!
Renato Afonso says
Eddie Jones, man. Eddie Jones…
busy bee says
Eddie Jones was replaced by a young man headed for HOF in a few years. I’ll let u guess who lol
BigCitySid says
@ AW, “I think the lakers will get the 4th or 5th seed in the west”. I don’t know if you’re a betting man, but if you are, and you believe what you just posted, you need to get to Vegas and lay a G or 2 on that one. Because if the Lakers deliver like you think they can, you’ll be good to go…big time.
gene says
It WAS à long summer…When you don’t make the playoffs it is a long time till the next season….If any of the projected teams ahead of the Lakers have injuries…we could get a spot in the top 8….
Braziman says
A fine post. There’s joy in watching players giving their best effort.
Tra says
1. Kobe – Coming off of 2 major injuries and, due to said injuries, basically, a year away from the game, it’ll be interesting to see what adjustments he’s made to his game to make up for the more then likely loss of explosiveness and him having even less athleticism. In his last ‘full’ season of ballin’, he was still, arguably, a top 5 player in the league (definitely still the best 2guard in the Association). While I’m of the opinion that we won’t see that Kobe, the last thing that I would want to see is a Kobe that’s slipped to the point to where he’s viewed as being, as I title it, “Fresh Laundry” (aKa: Washed Up). Can’t imagine Kobe going out like that, so I’m of the belief that if he can remain relatively healthy, he’ll prove to the doubters – and his salivating haters – that he has plenty of gas left in his tank.
2. Jeremy Lin – Will we see the JL that went on that tear a few years ago while playing under we all know who for the Knicks? Of course not. But what I’m hoping to see is a JL that’s better than the individual who lost, not only his starting PG spot, but also his confidence in Houston. Regardless of the fact that Nash will get the starting nod, I’m confident that JL will get the majority of the mins at PG. Therefore, he’ll get the opportunity to prove his worth in what will be a contract year for him. The FO, who I’m pretty sure views JL as good business, will also be able to evaluate him to see whether signing him long term would be a good investment as it pertains to on the court activities. Especially now with rumors out there that one of our possible off season targets in ’15, E. Bledsoe, might not be available. So with so much at stake for JL this upcoming season, I’ll have my eyes locked in on him.
3. Byron Scott – His dream has turned into reality: Head Coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. Now all eyes will be on him to see what he can accomplish given this opportunity. He’s been up front about defense being the key to success. With that being said, looking at the roster, I don’t see any defensive stalwarts (individually speaking) who can assist Scott with his vision. Therefore, his defensive philosophy, – principles that he’s spoke of often since being hired – once implemented, will be put to the test to see if he can indeed foster enough cohesion for the players to excel at team defense. Then there’s the Kobe questions: How much will he lean on Kobe offensively? Will he be able to manage Kobe’s mins? Will he hold Kobe accountable if he starts slacking on the defensive end of the court? And lastly, in regards to Kobe, will Scott be able to reel Kobe in, so to speak, when he goes off and starts doing things his own way (and you better believe that Kobe will test him, – like he’s tested all of his previous coaches – probably purposefully, regardless of their relationship, to see how Scott is built as the Head Coach of the Lakers .. Not Cleveland or NO). Also interested to see how he manages the mins of our ‘Bigs’ (if that’s what you want to call them considering that, with the exception of Sacre, they’re all PF’s naturally). He’s already stated that he will start Boozer. I believe Hill, more then likely, will start at Center. That leaves Kelly (whose game I’m fond of), Davis (who I need to see more of), Sacre (who I can care less about) and …
4. Julius Randle – Didn’t like the physique of “Da Rook” during Summer League play. It’s imperative that not only does he show up to camp in shape, but that his conditioning remains intact throughout the season. Scott mentioned this also. This will assist him both offensively and defensively when going up against PF’s who are physically more gifted than he is. Will he develop a dependable mid-range jumpshot? And although he’s motivated right now because he wants to show and prove that he should’ve been selected higher in the draft, will he still have that same passion and motor if he’s not accumulating any mins in Scott’s rotation? As always with most rookies, there’s so many questions. Hopefully Randle can garner enough playing time to supply us with some answers.
5. The Front Office – Simply put, since I’m of the belief that this team will not be in the hunt for a playoff spot in a loaded WC (mainly due to a frontcourt, bigs specifically, who are undersized) I’m looking forward to seeing if the FO will be players come the trade deadline or will they remain on the sidelines.
Baylor Fan says
It will be fun just to see the Lakers try to play defense again this season. Otherwise, how will Lin do when he truly has a chance to be the #1 point guard and no center is clogging the lane?
Lil pau says
1 For me it’ mostly about hoping for a full season of Nash. There were a few moments of genuine beauty in the couple of times he laced them up last year. I really want to see some PG poetry on a team that hasn’t had much of it since the great Ervin. If that somehow comes from Lin instead, i won’t complain.
Second, i want to see Kobe have such a good year that chasing down Malone and KAJ is once again a possibility. I don’t want to see some new, cagey Kobe. I want that greatness that was OG Kobe to return unmitigated by time, as I do not see athleticism as a primary constituent of his greatness. Can he summon that intensity on an average team? If do, his legacy will take another step in the direction of GOAT.
Third is The Swagmonster. Nothing needs to be said here. That right arm is just for buckets,
4 is X. For me, he’s kind of like what JC is for Darius– irrationally, perhaps, I just love watching him play
5 is the bench, specifically as it contrasts to our starting 5. Very quietly, we have a kind of potential bench mob lite who , like ariza and farmar, can replace out slow starters with a surge of youthful exhuberance. I love teams that essentially play 2 styles with two different lineups. Can Kobe hang with the kids at the 3? (SSOK– six seconds or Kobe)? Could we see Lin- swag-x-Randell-hill running teams ragged? Can clarkson have a role here?
First preseason game is oct 9– I have to admit I really can’t wait! the lakers are dead. Long live the lakers.
mud says
i don’t really buy the “undersized” label that the Lakers bigs have been saddled with. yes, they’re almost all 2-3 inches shorter than 7 feet, but they all have the weight needed to wrestle with 7 footers. the disadvantage isn’t really as huge as it seems. there aren’t any Shaqs to fight against this year.
KenOak says
Fantastic article Darius! Thanks for expressing what many of us feel here on FB&G, but can’t say half as well as you do. I’m getting excited about the season and am fairly optimistic about this squad at least fighting for a playoff spot! I can’t go as high as 4-5 like AW, but this team could be feisty enough to slide into the 8 spot if all goes well. Can’t wait to see KB lace ’em up and try to prove everyone wrong yet again. And just like every Lakers fan- I’m chomping at the bit to see Randle get after it. The Worthy comparison may prove to an apt one…
Go Lakers!
Kenny T says
I just don’t think the current Lakers bigs have any natural centers beside Sacre, who is a scrub. The rest of the bigs are all forwards, IMO, who’ll be constantly playing out of position when forced to play center. Personally, I feel the Lakers are a legitimate rim protector away from potentially being a playoff team. The team has plenty of forwards, power and small. And any backcourt featuring a healthy Kobe Bryant will be ok. Healthy being the caveat. Center is the key.
My biggest desire for this season is for the Lakers to avoid key injuries and long stretches without their best players. I’m hoping that Clarkson and Lin make Nash a spot player and that Randle is the real deal. I’m ready for some Lakers’ basketball!!
bryan S. says
I’m very optimistic about Jordan Clarkson’s potential. His combination of size, quickness and skill set are first round pick caliber. Not only did he look great in summer league, he was called the best player in a summer tournament in Toronto, which included a number of current NBA players.
trollman says
1. Kobe’s return
2. Not having to watch Paula Gasolean In a Laker uniform ever again.
3. Calculating the over/under whether Steve Nash plays more games than TV produced pieces.
4. Byron’s initial reaction to Kobe being Kobe and all subsequent damage control interviews .
5. Fan fallout if Laker can’t compete.
Slappy says
Darius, no argument whatsoever from me re Nick as a mere human, but even with the kids he’s jacking it up. If he could only realize that if he well and truly played more team ball that he’d go down as one of the most beloved ever….
Lastly, re Wes at SF, better be him, so at least the team can say that 1 soul on the court can actually defend his position (no knock on Hill, but I think he’s simply going to be over-matched at C).
Craig W. says
We are not deep at center, nobody argues that point. However, who is deep at center in the NBA? The Spurs are adequate, Houston is maybe a bit better than that, the Bulls are best, the Mavs ok, the Nets will be fine. I am sure I missed someone, but the point is that center is not a dominating position in today’s NBA.
harold says
it was not just a long summer, but it feels like it was the past two seasons that was sort of mindless and watching others parade around.
I am hoping that Kobe will play defense much more purposefully now that it is something he can still make a difference in when he puts his mind to it, and is an area that we really need some help in.
But who am I kidding. I just wish for good health. That’s all I ask at this point.
dxmanners says
Agree with all of the above, but it will all be tainted by yet another year of the going through the motions of Stu Lantz. His schtick isn’t just old, it’s senile as well. Simply the worst.
rr says
We are not deep at center, nobody argues that point
—
That’s not really the problem per se. The team only has one guy, Ed Davis, who profiles as being even a decent rim protector, and his minutes will, at least at the outset, probably be compromised by the presence of Boozer. So, it isn’t so much that the Lakers can’t match up with opposing big men as it is that the can’t protect the rim and don’t have the perimeter D to take up the slack. Last year, the Lakers allowed 13 FGM/G at the rim–the highest total in the NBA. Not by much–many teams were over 12, but that, combined with the fact that the Lakers allowed a ,532 % on these shots, not a terrible number, but not a good one, was a problem.
Last year, Ed Davis allowed opponents to convert 43.8% at the rim on 3 ATTs per game. Boozer, OTOH, allowed 55.4% on 4 ATTs per game.
At the team level, Chicago allowed 96.2 points/100 poss. when Boozer was off the floor–and 99.2/100 poss when he was on it.
J C says
Davis is a 5. Boozer is a 4.
So Davis should be a better defender.
I see Davis backing up Hill at the 5,
Randle backing up Boozer at the 4.
Jordan Hill is another guy who qualifies as a story line this season.
I hope he gets to play a consistent 24-32 min per game and has a great year. Byron should love his hustle.
He should get an award with a plaque or a T-shirt that says, ‘I survived Mike Dantoni.’
BigCitySid says
1st 30 comments and no one mentioned Kobe passing Jordan for the 3rd spot on the All time scoring list. Of course it’ll be a major accomplishment for Kobe & the team, just not on anyones top five list. I like the thinking/focus of the FB&G fam. Team>individual.
Go Lakers.
david h says
hey darius: cautiously optimistic should be this year’s laker mantra. and judging by how clever your five most looking forward to (things) about the Lakers season; I see a potential, somewhere down the regular season for kobe, swaggy, randle, clarkson and center by committee getting some playing time together. because of their relative lengths, kobe, swaggy and clarkson can interchange their guard defensive assignments. and along this line, interchanging randle with the center position by committee can also be possible and viable. not today of course but somewhere down the cautiously optimistic road.
for those of us who need the visual reminder:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/lakers/sites/default/files/2015_printable.pdf (2)
Go lakers !
Vasheed says
1. The health of Kobe and to a lesser extent Nash. This team is much better then otherwise predicted if these guys can get through a season without getting the injury bug.
2. The value of Linsanity. Lin is a fairly good player although his basketball skills shouldn’t earn him 8+ million a year. I think the added draft pick made this a good basketball decision to get him. From a business stand point this was a major coup. Lin will earn the Lakers a fortune in merchandising. I’m interested in seeing how this plays out will the Lakers sign him long term?
3. Will Hill rise to the opportunity. Hill is a long time fan favorite. Many suggested he was one of the btter players on the team. I’ve said for a long time that he is a center, plays a center, skills of a center, he is a center. He played alongside Gasol which made him appear to be a PF. Now that Gasol is gone and Hill is indisputably going to be used as a center fans see this a great weakness. I find the rise and fall of the perceived value of Hill baffling but, I look forward to seeing what hes makes of this situation.
4. A long term plan. The Lakers had been planning on a major signing this year. They held onto that notion as long as they could and reacted by plugging all their holes with temp gap measures. I’m interested to see if the Lakers after letting this roster play awhile how they will choose to address needs. More short term fixes or do they start filling in long term solutions.
5. Randle, as many know I’m very dubious about this but, as far as possible long term solutions this is our guy. He is young, obviously talented, and likely a guy the Lakers can keep under contract for years. I just don’t know if he has all-star potential as I believe he has some serious flaws that I don’t see him ever overcoming.
Aaron says
Couldn’t agree more about Clarkson. The guy has the length and body control to be a starting NBA PG. And that’s the not reason I say that. I haven’t watched him play one NBA game.
Ed says
So many?? Use the pre-season to try many combinations. One of the many problems is that there are not that many two way players. My guess is that Byron will wind up sacrificing defense to score enough points to keep games competitive.Randle and Clarkson have potential,but will have to learn the refs,and the oppostion. Clarkson needs work on his PG skills and Randle shooting, and using his right hand.
AusPhil says
Ellington. Camp fodder? Something more?
Thoughts from the FB&G cognoscenti?
Robert says
BigCity: “1st 30 comments and no one mentioned Kobe passing Jordan for the 3rd spot on the All time scoring list. ……. I like the thinking/focus of the FB&G fam. Team>individual.”
Well – it isn’t going to reach 40. This accomplishment is #1 on my list and there is not a close second. I totally agree that team is greater than individual, but for me as a fan, that only applies if we achieve excellence. My definition of that is at least making the Finals. If we do not do that, I would rather have some individual memories. Case in point for the group: Kobe’s 81 point game. Would you rather have that memory or would you rather have had the team win 5 more games that year? If I could exchange the 81 point game for a trip to the finals – sure, but for 5 meaningless games – now way. Now – I know we need to take baby steps and all those clichés, however, I need someone to show me that path forward. Meaning what about this year’s team is going to contribute to a future championship? I am a little challenged to come up with that, but here is my best top 5 for the year (most of which will have nothing to do with a future championship):
1) Kobe being healthy for an entire year and compiling many notable accomplishments in the Kobe Alerts.
2) Kobe moving into #3.
3) Byron establishing himself as part of the solution.
4) The FO not doing anything that hinders our ability to bid for free agents in future years.
5) One year closer to Jim’s self imposed exile.
Items 3-5 could actually help a future championship, but wow – that is why I root for 1 + 2 : )
bryan S. says
http://hoopshabit.com/2014/09/22/los-angeles-lakers-wayne-ellington-inks-deal/?utm_source=FanSided&utm_medium=Network&utm_campaign=Around%20the%20Network
Good camp signing. Has the shooting skills to make the roster–maybe.
Tilly says
I am hopeful that Randle can be a Jamal Mashburn type of player. Mashburn (6’8″ 247), like Randle, was big enough to be a small power forward but was better suited to the shooting forward position. My sense is that most folks are skewed in their opinion of Randle. He was clearly used as a Four in college. However, if you look at earlier clips of him, from high school, you’ll see that he had a nice handle and a solid mid-range game.
There is no reason to think if Randle got into great shape and developed his skills that he couldn’t play the Three. I’ve looked across NBA rosters and 16 of the 30 teams (according to the ESPN pre-season depth charts) will start a small forward that is 6’8″ to 6’10 and is 230+ pounds. These teams are: Celtics, Nets, Knicks, Bulls, Cavs, Pistons, Bucks, Hawks, Hornets, Heat, Magic, Wizards, Kings, Mavs, Nuggets, Spurs and Thunder.
The other teams, and surprisingly most of the West, start SG sized 3’s. So, it’s not inconceivable that Nick Young/Wes Johnson, two very SG sized players (6’6″/6’7″ and less than 220 pounds) could hold the position. However, if Randle could play it we may be able to exploit advantages that are not necessarily present with other Laker matchups.
I partly did this research to verify what another contributor had mentioned in a previous thread: that many other teams are starting SFs bigger than our starting center, Jordan Hill. It’s true. While not many are not taller than Hill’s 6’10” a lot are heavier than his listed 235.
Ed says
While Randle could play SF,I don`t think he will have the 3point range to stretch defenses which most teams like to have on the wing.Plus,he seems most effective close to basket on both ends,using his combination of quickness and strength. No doubt he will have to make some adjustments from college,but he has the skills and athleticism and seems to be a hard worker and willing to learn.
Brian says
Byron’s roster management and injuries will dictate if Randle plays any wing position. If Young is held back as a 6th man off the bench it’s possible that Randle could compete favorably against Wes Johnson for the starting Three. Likewise, and heaven forbid, should Kobe miss time with injuries, Young would likely start at the Two leaving the Three wide open for Randle. Of course this assumes that Hill, Boozer, Davis and Kelly can handle the Four and the Five.
Fern says
I dont know a lot about this Wayne Ellington, looking at his stats and his career, he is just another roster filling body made for garbage time. Unless he gives some kind of totally unexpected production makes no difference one way or another.I read somewhere that he is a replacement for Meeks, please, i guess the bottom of the barrel is completely scrapped. Just another stiff unless he proves otherwise.
Fern says
@Tilly in my opinion, Randle cant’ play the three because he dont have the speed to guard a wing player, and the comparision to Masburn i dont agree Jamal was an offensive player that didnt guarded a soul on his entire career he had a long distance and a 3 point shot that Randle dont have so far, Masburn got that down straight out of college. It seems to me that Randle is going to be a Zach Randolph kind of player. Lets not forget that some of the best players/ overrated (take your pick) are what is called nowadays an “undersized” PF if he can develop like he can he can be a force down low.
bryan S. says
On Randle: I think the way to envision Randle’s upside is to get beyond the conventional labels.
Tilly’s comments are on point about Randle’s ball handling and mid-range shooting. What I’ve observed from clips is that he has a surprisingly soft touch. One can extrapolate is that he will be able to extend his range, and like LeBron and Blake Griffin, develop it to where he can become a triple post threat: he already has the floor vision/passing along with the aforementioned handle. I’m not putting Randle’s upside in the LeBron range by making a comparison here–but I think a Blake Griffin comp isn’t outrageous.
As we’ve all talked about during the draft, Griffin and Randle are almost the same height, length and weight. Griffin is a quarter inch taller, and Randle’s arms are a bit longer. Their max vert jump is surprisingly close. If compared as 19 year olds, Griffin gets the edge in explosiveness and insane dunks. But I give Randle the edge in shooting, passing, handle, and lateral quickness. I’ll say rebounding is a toss up without being sure. It’s a compliment to Griffin that he has improved hugely in the guard skills since being drafted to the point where he is becoming LeBron like: a point power forward. That’s a rare and devastating player to have on your team. I think that’s Randle’s considerable upside. It’s going to be fun to watch his development.
Darius Soriano says
Since we’re on the subject, again, of Randle playing SF here is a link to my thoughts on the subject: http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2014/08/01/julius-randle-and-misusing-versatility/
Snoopy2006 says
I just don’t get where the “Randle as a small forward” calls are coming from. In today’s NBA? Smaller and faster than ever? With proper spacing at an absolute premium? With the 2 best players in the league at the 3? In the 80s, maybe. But in today’s league? Not a chance.
Ellington might hold promise as a shooter, which is something for a 14th guy. Having one clearly defined NBA skill is usually enough to hang around an NBA roster, if that skill is in high demand like shooting. Not bad for some wing depth, at this late stage in the game.
Warren Wee Lim says
First off, long time FB&G!
Its been that long and it feels even longer. I don’t think I can stand another month without Laker basketball. That said, the storylines…
1. KOBE BEAN BRYANT – I don’t think I need to tell anyone how much I missed this scrub play.
2. JEREMY LIN + JORDAN HILL – I think these two will be intertwined. Eventually they will be our starting PG and CE, for Hill it might come sooner. He’s being paid in such amounts so why not. As for Lin, he’d have to earn it over the old fox …
3. STEVE NASH – I saw an NBAtv replay of the 11th game of our 2013/14 season and Steve Nash looked terrific. He probed defenses, passed the ball through holes which are otherwise closed if your name isn’t Steve Nash. If he can only give us one good season, I would let him retire in peace and forgive him of all the Lakers losses in 2005-2007.
4. JULIUS RANDLE – I think he’s an old-school SF. His game is best-described as a hybrid of Lamar Odom and Zach Randolph, both being lefties. I don’t think he starts right away, but he will eventually. Coming off the bench is more suitable early on as he develops his body and his mind, he seems to be a very intelligent kid thats willing to learn. That said, he will eventually start as a mobile PF.
5. BYRON SCOTT – I am not a fan of his, not necessarily the hire. If its true that we couldn’t pry Jeff Van Gundy out of retirement then I prefer Scott to be the coach in the trying years.
Leo says
My perspective on question of whether Randle is a 3 or a 4 is this: I hope that Byron plays his best players the most minutes. It could well be that, for example, the best front court players are Hill, Davis and Randle. If that is the case I would want them to get the lion share of the minutes – even if it meant that Randle may play extended time at the 3. As long as Randle can handle the defensive assignment as a wing then he would be a net gain while on the floor.
What I would hate to see is Johnson getting most of the minutes at the 3, even though Randle is a much better player, because Wes is more of a traditional 3 in Byron’s mind. In this example Randle’s minutes would be reduced because he would be competing against Boozer, Davis and Kelly for minutes at the 4.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that the Lakers aren’t that great of a team right now. If Randle being on the floor makes the team better then he should play – even if he is at a position that does not fit in with current conventional thinking.
Ed says
Signing Ellington seems to be a sign that the Lakers want Nick to play some SF and be on the floor with Kobe at times.Same hometown and agent as Kobe.
bryan S. says
Darius: Thanks for re-posting that piece. I will say that if Randle becomes as good as I think he might, it won’t matter who he is matched against. The onus will be on the opposition to match up against his game.
JeffT says
I missed this the first time I read about the Wayne Ellington pick-up:
“Ellington played his best under new Lakers head coach Byron Scott when he traded to the Cavaliers during the 2012-13 season, where he averaged career best in points (10.4), field goal percentage (.439), minutes (25.9), and starts (17) in 38 games played with the team.”
Craig W. says
The only caveat to giving Randle minutes over other players is the concept of 1st team and 2nd team. If the 1st team has a particular personality and the 2nd team has a different one, then that has to be considered in determining when to play somebody – i.e. Young should come off the bench, not start. I have no idea how things will play out before the season starts, but the 1st team personality vs 2nd team personality is something that has been discussed on this board before.
Fern says
Kevin Durant and Melo would absolutely torch Randle if he guard them at the small fwd position, Kevin Durant is one of the most athletic players in the entire league, are u kidding me? And playing him at the 3 would take away one of his strenghts, his rebounding specially with him having to chase faster 3s thru screens and guarding against 3 point shots, he dont have even a reliable mid-range shot and people here want to put him in the 3? One of the requisites for a modern 3 is to have an outside game you put Randle at the 3 your going to take away his strenghts. He is a PF with the build to bump and bruise inside, if he is able to develop a reliable mid range shot play defense and rebound he could be very good, thats his game not chasing Durant, Melo or any wing players thru screens or in the 3 point line. This is a re-re-re-re thread of the same thing. Slow news week i guess…
Anonymous says
Snoopy2006: I just don’t get where the “Randle as a small forward” calls are coming from. In today’s NBA? Smaller and faster than ever? With proper spacing at an absolute premium? With the 2 best players in the league at the 3? In the 80s, maybe. But in today’s league? Not a chance.
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Kevin Durant = 6’10” 240
Lebron James = 6’8″ 250+
These are not ‘small’ forwards. When in shape, Randle would likely be 6’9″ 240. As a reminder our starting center is 6’9″‘ 235.
rr says
“Free-agent forward Michael Beasley has agreed to join the Memphis Grizzlies in training camp on a non-guaranteed contract, league sources told Yahoo Sports.”
Craig W. says
I think we all should moderate our ‘historical’ idea of what positions should look like. The modern center, PF, and SF are very far different from the historical norm 15 years and more ago. Trying to fit today’s rookies into this stereotype doesn’t fit today’s teams – Lakers included. Until Randle proves he can’t handle the ‘banging’ in the post area – something that is an apparent strength of his – it is sort of silly to continually place him at the SF(3). I thought the article Darius previously wrote, and linked to above, pretty much spelled all this out.
This is why I am not as concerned we don’t have Dwight Howard at center for us, either. We have some talent and flexibility – now it is time to see what Byron can make of all this.
rr says
This is why I am not as concerned we don’t have Dwight Howard at center for us, either.
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I put up a list in preseason last year of the records of all the teams who have lost a top-tier center in his prime. The pattern was very clear, and the Lakers’ record the first year post-Howard is just another example of the same pattern. Obviously, there were many reasons the Lakers went 27-55. It is equally obvious, however, that Howard was a huge loss for the organization, faults and all.
Snoopy2006 says
Anonymous – Charles Barkley was 6’4″, clearly that means he was a shooting guard.
You have to look beyond simple measurements. His foot speed looks good for a 4, but does he have the speed to consistently guard Durant on the perimeter? In his short career so far, has he demonstrated any kind of consistent jumpshot that would allow him to space the floor on offense? Could he bully small forwards in the post without a floor-spacing 4 and 5 next to him to clear congestion in the paint?
Obviously he has the potential to grow and change his play. But nothing he has demonstrated so far leads me to believe he’ll see long-term success playing the majority of his minutes at the three.
Robert says
“now it is time to see what Byron can make of all this.”
I realize this is a Lakers board, but in all fairness to Byron, please let’s omit the word “all” from that sentence. If Byron makes anything of this season – he should be given an instant statue outside of staples.
mud says
no, Robert. it’s not that bad. if Scott has a successful season, all we can say is that he was a good choice for the Lakers coach.
Jerke says
Mike Trudell: Consistent word from last several weeks has been how good Nash has looked in scrimmages. Really does change dynamic of LAL if he’s healthy. Twitter @LakersReporter
lakafan says
Nash won’t make it till tnxgiving. Then he can take his ski mask and go back to PHX and get a fo position. Anyways, excitement is in the air. Training camp is only 5 days away!
David says
Curious that Magic got involved with the Danny Ferry situation. He came out of their discussion saying that Ferry deserved another chance. Wondering if Magic is pushing for Jim to step aside, elevate Mitch to President and bring Ferry on as the GM.
Craig W. says
This is likely to be a really fun year to watch the Lakers – amend that to a very bad year for those who believe they must win a championship to have a good year. I look forward to watching Kobe and Nash carefully to see what and how they bring to the team – all the absolute certainty that Nash will break down in 5 games seems to me frightened cries to cover fears of another possibly very bad year before it occurs.
We are simply so spoiled as to be the definition of spoiled fans. It has been a tough couple of years for the Lakers, but the process doesn’t look so black this year. Let’s see if the vets can contribute, the rooks can adjust, and the others from last year can improve – all under a coach that isn’t as hated by the fanbase as Mike D’Antoni was.
Craig W. says
Darius – I give up!
rr says
Darius – I give up!
—
If this is a reference to posts getting hung up in mod, there are just certain words that the program catches, and it is hard to know what they are. I think it happens to all of us from time to time.
Todd says
David – Curious that Magic got involved with the Danny Ferry situation. He came out of their discussion saying that Ferry deserved another chance. Wondering if Magic is pushing for Jim to step aside, elevate Mitch to President and bring Ferry on as the GM.
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I don’t envision we will see any changes to the FO until Jim’s self imposed three year trial is over. So any moves now would be wishful thinking.
As an aside, I have always liked Ferry as he is a product of the Spurs FO School of Management. I especially liked what he had done with the Hawks – trading Johnson and creating cap flexibility.
However, I do not condone his actions surrounding the Deng scouting report. He will need to make amends for them before any organization will emploiy him. Meeting with Magic and getting his endorsement is a step in the right direction.
George says
Channeling Craig W’s frustration as I have tried to get this post up since yesterday.
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Regarding Randle: I think we are making a mountain out of a molehill. I would assume that he will play where he can be the most benefit to the team. As Leo noted above it depends on who the most productive players are. If Hill, Davis, Randle, Kobe, Lin and Young are our best then its possible we may see some interesting combinations on the floor.
It would seem likely that Randle would be slotted as a Four but it wouldn’t surprise me that he could get some burn as a situational Three. I would assume that Byron and his staff will make the decisions that help the Lakers to be as successful as possible.
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As an aside, I double checked the comments from Tilly, above. It is true that per ESPN’s pre-season depth charts that there are many ‘big’ starting small forwards in the East. There are just a handful of big 3’s in the West where shooting guard sized 3’s seem to be more prevalent.
bryan S. says
Todd: Magic is not a shareholder, nor does he have any title with the team. He has no influence whatsoever on what the Lakers do. For that I am grateful.
Robert says
Magic Johnson is still a Vice President with the Lakers. During his tenure as a player, we went to 9 Finals and Won 5 NBA Championships. During his tenure as a minority owner, we went to 7 Finals and won 5 NBA Championships. Sounds like a good guy to have around. He sold his Laker ownership in October of 2010, which at this point looks about as well timed as shorting technology stocks in the year 2000. Hopefully it will not take the Lakers 14 years to hit new highs on their index.
Tony says
David – Curious that Magic got involved with the Danny Ferry situation. He came out of their discussion saying that Ferry deserved another chance. Wondering if Magic is pushing for Jim to step aside, elevate Mitch to President and bring Ferry on as the GM.
___
Like, Todd, I’m also intrigued by what David had to say. Although for a different reason. My question is for my fellow readers. What if Jim did step aside, elevated Kupchak and hired a new GM to help Mitch out. Would such a move be welcomed by Laker fans? And more importantly, would this new FO configuration lead to a quicker turnaround of the franchise?
Thoughts?
George says
Tony – Depending on who the team hired into the GM role such a move could have a tremendous impact on the trajectory of the franchise.
There would have to be caveats to make it work, such as:
1. Jim would have to agree to butt out of the basketball operations ‘process’ and retain only a veto role (much like any owner would).
2. The new hire would need to be a stud, a current up and coming FO talent. The intent would be that they would bring in a new fresh perspective as well as a skill set not currently possessed by management – be it analytics, capology or just the ‘balls’ to go for it on a risky move or to say no to a stupid move.
3. Make Mitch and the new GM more accessible to the media and fans. Mitch is a bit dry but he always comes across as if he knows what he’s doing. Being comfortable with the leadership goes a long way towards trusting them to make the right decisions.
4. Agree to keep Byron as the head coach at least until Kobe retires. New GMs want to bring their own guy in. However, we need stability on the sidelines for a few years. I understand the reality is that Byron is a transitional coach until we begin to acquire more talent. I also know that this is at least 2 to 3 years away.
Fern says
Magic it’s Magic but he have zero power within the organization, he say the things he say because of that precisely, if he had any say in how the Lakers are run, he would not be running his mouth the way he is doing. He can be the Vice President of confetti and free tacos, it’s just a fancy title with no meaning whatsoever. If he is pushing for Danny Ferry he is totally divorced from reality, what Danny Ferry has done? Fail to build a championship team around Lebron in Cleveland and kept the Hawks where they always been, in mediocrity land. That someone believes that is possible that Jim Buss would step aside, Mitch becoming president( over Jeannie) and bring Ferry as a GM have no freaking clue what is talking about. I hear some crazy insane theories on this blog, but that one is a doozy, sheeeshhh
Stuart says
Tony – I’ll bite. No question, Jim should make such a move and step aside. Jim is not his dad and there’s no crime in acknowledging that fact. There is no harm to widen the ‘circle of trust’ to include more smart people. As a fan, I would still respect Jim (and Jeannie’s) management of the team even if it meant that there was ‘less Buss’ involved in the day to day running of things. The decision to hire bright folks and relinquish responsibility is a big one. And if Jim made that call it would be the best decision for the franchise.
Dr. Buss wanted Jim to run the Lakers basketball operations. I don’t think Dr. Buss told Jim he had to do it exactly like he did. Besides, Jim would still be running things if he elevated Mitch and hired a new GM – however, he’d be running it the right way.
Snoopy2006 says
I see our Plan D was signing up every last free agent left on the market. How many is that now in the last week?
bryan S. says
Robert: Magic’s VP title is purely honorific–but you know that. His abilities as a player are unquestioned. But that is no reliable indicator of management acumen–and your smart enough to know that too.
Robert says
bryan s: I have an added loyalty to Magic and Kobe which causes me to come to their defense. Can we get the Lakers to draft a bylaw that bans anyone with “no reliable indicator of management acumen” from the front office?
Tony: “Would such a move be welcomed by Laker fans? ” I know of at least 1 fan who would be strongly in favor of this.
KB: Will be interested to see what the October work load will be for Kobe. I think this month will foreshadow whether he and the team are serious about an attempt to manage his minutes. I am thinking the schedule should be NFL like. Take 4-5 preseason games completely off, and then play like 5 minutes each in the last 3.
Robert says
Fern: I for one would not want Ferry here, but the concept of that type of change in our FO is what is nice to dream about. It is pre-season. It is the time for such dreams. The season will start soon, and rr will be giving us his reminders of reality : )
Fern says
@Robert that is not going to happen if Jim steps aside another member of the family is going to take over, they own the team and i dont think they will relinquish power to ANYONE anytime soon, they didn’t do it for PJ for chrissakes which was a no brainer for a lot of people they wont do it for nobody else unless the good Doctor comes back from the grave, and again while i know that Jim Buss it’s not his father and he never be and he has make some questionable decisions he has make some good ones that just didn’t work out, and by offering to step aside in the timeframe he said if the team dont turn around takes a lot of guts if he makes good on it, i dont see any owner on any sport making that statement, some people say Jerry Jones should had make that pledge 15 years ago lol, this team is rebuilding and while im hopeful like the fan i am ( never doubt Kobe and his gripes) this season will be one of rebuilding. If this team have not turn it around in 3 years? Off with his head, but for now Jim and Mitch are doing what they supposed to be doing, i have no major gripes about the team at this time.
Fern says
In a unrelated topic, as much as i despise that homer Bill Simmons he got suspended for telling the truth, that the NFL specially it’s comish go on and said in a press conference they didnt saw the Rice tape is such a lie that it made my head spin, i dont think i seen so many lies spewed out in a press conference in american sports. These people in the NFL office must think the public is stupid.
Tra says
As Jay Z once said, “On To The Next One” .. In this case, for the Lakers, hopefully it’s Goran Dragic.
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=11583579
Aaron says
Fern,
I agree with the NFL… NFL fans on average are more “stupid” than the average sports fan. I don’t blame them at all and we they are doing is working very well. The middle of the country can’t get enough of football.
Aaron says
Re: Randle at SF
Obviously his best position would be SF. He needs to be able to shoot the three whether he is at SF or PF. He isn’t long enough to play adequate defense (especially in the paint) at PF. Your “position” really is who you can defend anyways and Randle will be most effective guarding SFs.
bryan S. says
Aaron: Can Blake Griffin defend fours? I’d say not very well. But having Deandre Jordan behind him helps. But I get your point and think Randle will be able to defend on the perimeter.
Craig W. says
You don’t have to be tall to defend, however, you do need good lateral movement, long arms help, and a big rear end sure doesn’t hurt. What Randle does depends on his motivation and his coaches.