Since the moment the Lakers traded Shaq to the Heat following the 2004 season, whenever you saw Miami vs. Los Angeles on the schedule it was appointment viewing. Even in those early days where the Lakers were bad and the Heat were one of the best in the league, I wanted to see prime Kobe battle against Shaq and Wade. When the tables turned and the Lakers became the elite team and the Heat faltered, I still wanted to see Kobe and Pau and Odom take on Wade’s crew. And then, of course, when the Heat were able to sign LeBron and Bosh, any Lakers/Heat game that wasn’t on national television was probably a scheduling error.
While some of the names remain — Kobe, Wade, Bosh — and new ones have joined, those days where this game would be featured on the marquee are long gone. The Lakers are, as you well know, one of the worst teams in the league, currently boasting a bottom four record in the association. The Heat, meanwhile, are now without LeBron and have fallen to the 7th seed in the East with a 16-21 record. They are only two games up from the 9th seeded Pacers and really have been inconsistent as they adjust to life without the “king”.
What this leaves us with, really, is just another game on a Tuesday. Yes, Kobe may play after participating in practice yesterday. And, yes, the Heat will bring Wade and Bosh (and Luol Deng) on their end. But, ultimately, this isn’t really a game to get excited about anymore and, really, is more interesting for how it affects the standings (in terms of the Lakers keeping their pick and the Heat trying to make the playoffs) than anything else — even at this early-ish stage of the season.
In saying all that, however, both teams will come out and compete tonight and will, tactically, try to play to their strengths to win the game. For the Heat, this will mean working the ball through Wade and Bosh while looking for Deng and some of the other role players to get their respective games going. One player to watch is big man Hassan Whiteside, Miami’s reserve center. The big man has been playing well lately, include a fantastic performance against the Clippers’ renowned frontcourt of Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan. Whiteside put up 23 points with 16 rebounds and 2 blocks in only 29 minutes in helping the Heat beat the Clippers on Sunday.
The Lakers’ bigs, then, have a fair amount of responsibility this game. Not just because of a reserve Center who played well two days ago, but because the Heat, though now without LeBron, will still try to stretch the Lakers out by moving Bosh all over the court and then attacking the vacated lane via penetration and quick cuts. This will put pressure on Hill, Davis, Boozer, and Tarik Black to have good awareness and position themselves accordingly in order to not give up easy looks every time down the floor.
Offensively, the Lakers must find ways to threaten and control the paint. Whether this is via penetration from the guards, pick and rolls with the big men diving, or working the offensive glass hard the team must find ways to get baskets inside and then work to the perimeter after. Relying on Jordan Hill or Kobe (should he play) long two point jumpers will let the Heat off the hook and allow them to pressure the perimeter and put a stranglehold on the offense. No, the Lakers must fight the urge to settle and instead work the ball, deliberately, into the paint to either score or collapse the defense enough to open up the perimeter to make those shots less stressful.
Where you can watch: 7:30pm start time on TWC Sportsnet. Also listen on ESPN Radio 710AM Los Angeles.
Calvin Chang says
@Darius: Now that we’re halfway through the season and it’s obvious that there’s no chance to make the playoffs, plus the fact that there’s a lot of talent in this upcoming draft – do you now support the idea of tanking? As a fan, I always want to see the team win. But it’s really hard to root for wins now that the season endgame is becoming clear at halfway point. I disagreed with Aaron’s tanking position early in the season. But now, with the playoffs clearly out of reach, I think finishing bottom 4 is the way to go. A good big like Okafor or Towns can really help this team going forward. What a dilemma.
Darius Soriano says
Calvin,
It’s not so much that I agree with the idea of tanking as much as I understand the state of the team and accept that they will lose a lot of games. In saying that, I’d still like to see the team try to build towards something tangible and enact a strategy to get there.
Right now Byron Scott is clearly trying to win games. He’s still playing veterans like Price and even Boozer (who is playing well since his move to the bench) over players like Clarkson or Kelly (I still believe Kelly is a PF, not a wing). The Lakers are losing games even though Scott is trying to win. I do not think replacing Price with Clarkson or reducing minutes for Boozer in favor of Kelly at PF will affect the outcome of games, so why not play them to try and get them more minutes to try and help facilitate their growth?
This doesn’t answer your question, I’d imagine, but I’d like to see different strategies taken to try and develop players that could be part of the future. Right now, playing guys like Price, Boozer, or even Wes Johnson isn’t winning games and they aren’t likely on the team in a year or two so what’s the point? Again, this team will lose games regardless. They don’t need to do anything special to make that happen.
Baylor Fan says
Miami should give Lakers fans pause. They still have Wade and Bosh playing at high levels and a rim protector having a breakthrough season and yet are below .500. It is going to take more than a “big 3” to turn the Lakers fortunes around.
Victor says
The current Kobe situation is the straw that has broken my back. I am so frustrated with the Lakers FO treating us fans like we are idiots. I think Lakers’ management should feel grateful that the LA/West Coast Media is so apathetic. Kobe has been reduced to a ‘day to day decision’ with no word from the team as to what the underlying issue is.
Wouldn’t it be nice if our radio/print/TV media stopped fawning over the team and asked the questions that we, on FBG, ask every day? Questions like:
1) why sign Kobe to the ridiculous extension without knowing if he was healthy enough to fulfill it
2) what was behind the FO’s game plan of trying to sign Melo over the summer. In NY, Melo is also intimating that he will shut it down for the year with a knee injury requiring surgery. We came very close to having 80% of our cap tied to two players who likely will be out of action by the all-star break. Isn’t there a concern with pursuing FAs that are 30 and above? Rumor has it that the team will look at Rondo this off season and he will be 30 and will want a 4 year max deal…
3) Jeannie rationalizes Kobe’s extension by saying, ‘Who would we have spent the money on.’ Shouldn’t someone ask, “Did you look at Greg Monroe, Eric Bledsoe or Lance Stephenson?’
4) Jeannie also rationalizes the Kobe extension by saying it shows elite players that the Lakers take care of their own. Yet, Dwight and Pau are two elite big men who left money on the table to get away – what does that say about the organization?
5) Why were Howard, Pau, Kaman, Meeks and Farmar allowed to walk away with no return?
6) Why can’t the organization pick a quality head coach? Mike Brown was at odds with Kobe during year one and was so overwhelmed when the team brought on DHoward that he lasted 5 games the following year. MD was an equally bad fit – he alienated not one but two future Hall of Fame big men (Howard and Pau). Who is responsible for these mistakes?
7) Organizations that struggle for extended periods of time make changes. Certainly Laker head coaches know that to be true. Is there accountability in other areas of the organization and what are the consequence for continued poor performance.
The Lakers are a mess and yet the people who orchestrated this fiasco get lobbed softballs at interviews. They spin their answers and while the response makes little real world sense there is no follow-up.
The Lakers tout that they are all about championships yet they have intentionally designed a team to tread water for the past two years. The Lakers have the fewest assets (draft picks and young talent) than any team in the league. Yet, for some reason our FO is content to let one of the few safety lines they possess (their top 5 draft pick) slip away. They have cap space but refuse to spend it on young emerging talent while seemingly focusing on a strategy of pursuing name FAs that are likely to break down during years 3 and 4 of a max contract.
I can’t recall ever being so down on this team.
J C says
Good point Darius.
Playing the younger players like Clarkson isn’t even tanking. It’s investing in our future.
It’s also taking a necessary look at their potential. How else can they be evaluated?
It may simply be that the FO ismt quite ready to pull the plug on the season yet.
Once they are, we may see some trades and some re-allocation of minutes.
J C says
Victor that’s an awesome post.
You’ve stated succinctly much of what ails us and asked the 48 million dollar question:
Why isn’t the media more critical?
Robert says
Victor: There are so many good points in your post.
“The Lakers are a mess” That pretty much sums it up.
“LA/West Coast Media is so apathetic” The fans are much the same – and if anyone does not believe me, just go to a game and sit in the 100 section. This has been like this for years. Jim and Jeanie are not available for interviews much and when they do become available – they are scripted affairs usually administered by someone as tough as Ramona Shelbourne.
My favorite: “Is there accountability in other areas of the organization and what are the consequence for continued poor performance.” There is no accountability in the ownership suite, none in the GM section, and none in the training group. I guess you could say there is accountability with the coaches, if you call getting multiple years off with pay – accountability. There is very little accountability in the scouting department, because as Jim has declared – scouting is meaningless.
“Why were Howard, Pau, Kaman, Meeks and Farmar allowed to walk away with no return? ” You said that “we” asked these questions. You are correct we (FBG) did indeed, and believe it or not many on this very board defended the fact that these guys walked for nothing.
“I can’t recall ever being so down on this team.” Stick around. Things are likely to get worse before they get better.
Thomas Rickard says
If the definition of tanking is losing on purpose, I don’t think it’s ever in the best interest of either players or the fans! Not playing as hard as possible to win creates bad habits, I think there have been numerous times were teams have done this over a period of time and actually built a collection of good young players, only to keep losing because they never learned how to win. However once a team gets to a point where making the playoffs isn’t possible I agree that giving younger players who have potential more time while still playing to win is constructive, the fans have a “right” to see their team try and put a good product on the court, in the real world fans would have more choices and bad owners/mangment would go belly up and a team like the Clippers wouldn’t have been nonentities for 30 years, unfortunately monopolies often don’t create the best product, wouldn’t it be interesting if an owner had to sell his team anytime they didn’t make it to the playoffs 5/6 years in a row, i do realize that for something like this to worka change in playoff format would be nessary but should happen anyway, it’s time to see the best 16 teams with perhaps a playin for the last spot from amongst the best 2 teams in the second half not in the playoffs
Robert says
Kobe Alert: At tip off (yea yea – game time decision), Kobe will tie AC Green for 20th on the all time games list. He really needs to play some games, cause he could move up this list rapidly. He also needs to catch Gary Peyton for minutes and he needs about 15 games to do that. Only 25 FG’s to equal Shaq for 5th all time (he has gotta do this soon right?). Kobe is in 30th all time for dimes, but also could move up this list rapidly if he plays a handful of games. 18 dimes to go to equal Hondo for 29th. I would also really like to see him get up to Jerry West level, but that would require him to play for a while. Sorry – but this “shut it down” conversation has me a little depressed. I am not sure that everyone fully realizes how incredibly irrelevant the Lakers will be in most people’s eyes, if Kobe does not play. I mean – yea – most of us will still be here on FBG (the ranks here have already thinned), but the typical fan will just drift away. So let’s root for that day to be far away and that Kobe plays the next 1 1/2 years and beyond : ) Just not all the way until 2022 like Rob W was asking for : )
rr says
Victor’s post is good, but there is nothing there that a lot of people have not been saying for months on end. As to the media, people need to remember that ESPN and the Lakers are in some respects business partners.
I will be interested to see if H. Whiteside has another big game for Miami.
Anonymous says
The answer to Victors question lies in threats coming from the front office to announcers and media to stop being so critical or lose access.
Fact.
Calvin Chang says
The conundrum is: what if playing Clarkson and Kelly results in 2 or 3 more wins – putting the team outside the bottom 5? Kelly has the potential to be a Ryan Anderson if he can get rebounds as a 4. He seems to have the mobility. Just needs to build some muscle. I do agree with DS that it’s time to really let the youngsters play and develop. Tarik, Clarkson and Kelly should get at least 20 mins per game.
Calvin Chang says
Very good post from Victor.
George says
Anonymous -The answer to Victors question lies in threats coming from the front office to announcers and media to stop being so critical or lose access.
Fact.
—–
Well, if true then the intrigue begins. The only reason to play hard ball against probing questions is if the answers would be embarrassing. The only reason they would be embarrassing is if they point to mistakes or more likely blatant incompetence by one or more of the Buss kids.
minorthreatt says
Whatever the real reason is for Kobe’s prolonged absences, they do afford the Lakers one advantage: they diminish expectations. Anyone who follows basketball seriously knew this team was headed for the lottery, with or without him. Regardless, the narrative (for the general public and those entities on the business side of the equation, including TW) remains: no Kobe, no chance. Those diminished expectations should dictate more time for Black, Kelly and Ckarkson, and the trade of Hill, plus whatever vets they can unload.
Without Kobe — at least, full-time Kobe — this season becomes another mulligan. Might as well use the opportunity therein.
Anonymous says
Good thing Kobe is back. 16 to zip
Tim says
Absolutely a terrible start to the game for the Lakers. Lakers finally score after giving up the first 18 points. They need a full line change a few minutes ago. .
Jaya says
What’s going on with the lakers, I just checked the score and it was 20 to 2, am I missing something?
Tim says
To quote Chick Hearn, the Lakers can’t throw a pea in the ocean.
Hale says
I don’t know if you’re missing something but the Lakers certainly were missing shots.
Anonymous says
Hale
Kobe 1 for 8 not helping. Seemed they played harder with him out.
hop says
Not sure why B. Scott put the starters back into the game. B. Scott is just a horrible coach. Kobe 1/9 at halftime, Hill 2/8, Price 0/3 the same old stuff again, again. The bench at least competes.
DonFord says
I can be too depressed to watch the games and yet still get depressed just by loosely monitoring game-time box scores. Aauuugh….
Lil Pau says
Watching this mess leads to only one reaction : Free Ko!!!
Anonymous says
Wes and KB are just bricking. Let someone else shoot. 3 for 21 Kobe 3 for his last 22.
Seems to play way worse when he rests. Crazy.
Tonefinder says
Kobe great passes esp. to Hill. But- dangerous cross – court pass picked off at 4:15 remaining in the first half.
rr says
Free Ko!!!
—
This “Anonymous” guy sounds a lot like him.
Tonefinder says
Kobe can’t be the only player to shoot 11% in a half. I mean, it must happen all the time, right?
And I’m calling it: tonight’s “Anonymous” sounds rather like Ko.
Lakafan says
Free Ellington!! Put in some guys who can shoot clueless coach, Wes Johnson and price are throwing up bricks, I know he won’t sit Kobe so bench those other scrubbs. Why do lakers have to hire these incompetent retread coaches?!?!
hop says
Price played 32 minutes scored 0 points. -15 while on the floor.
Kobe played 31 minutes 3-19 , -6 while on the floor
Lin 3-7 +9 while on the floor and only played 16 minutes. Price was garbage tonight.
This is another loss on B. Scott this guy doesn’t have a clue.
BlizzardOfOz says
The thing I don’t get is, why has Kobe seemingly forgotten how to shoot?
Kevin T says
Kobe is just thinking too much out there, if he goes with the scorers mentality and passes when necessary he will be fine. This pass first Kobe just thinks too much. I like the scorers mentality Kobe much much better. I hope he changes it up a little.
Chearn says
Basketball is an unforgiving partner, if you don’t put in time with the basketball it gets jealous and won’t go through the hoop when you want.
I remember when the Lakers fan base contemplated trading Kobe for Luol Deng, at this junction he is not 1/3 of the player that Kobe is, and he’s much younger.
The Lakers players are too inconsistent for reliance. Had one player played to his previous or seasonal output the Lakers win this game.
Spoelstra looks pedestrian as a coach without LeBron and Wade.
J C says
Was at the game.
Energy felt ‘off’ from the opening tip.
Never experienced a Laker game down 18-0 at home before.
It was spooky. Fans started to boo at around 12-0.
Why was Ellington held out?
And Lin was definitely a sparkplug – puzzling he didn’t play more minutes.
Jordan Hill had some nice moments.
Kobe made a some really nice passes tonight but to call it a ‘rough’ shooting night would be an understatement. Going out on a limb here, but hasn’t his shooting slump gotten worse after he passed MJ? I think he may be experiencing a bit of a letdown after passing his idol, essentially meeting one of his lifelong targets and now very few additional targets are within reach.
Without a contending team, without his sidekick Pau, his teacher Phil, and friend Fish, Kobe looks…depressed.
Yet, Wes J and Nick Young both had a really poor shooting night and we STILL were right there at the end of the game and had a chance to win it.
Such a sad and confusing season.
tankyou says
This was a game that seriously looked like Byron Scott coached the team to lose on purpose. Besides Ed Davis the entire starting unit sucked. Yet, instead of reducing the minutes of Kobe/Wes/Price they play those guys a ton. Seriously Kobe/Price 30mins+ they played horrible. The bench is the only reason this game wasn’t a complete blowout. Really looked like a lose on purpose thing to me. Sick of this crap, I think I need to take some games off from watching them, I have no desire to watch a team that looks like its being set up for failure. No clue why Ronnie Price led the team in minutes, he was horrible and his defense was trash. At least Kobe was still doing other things well on the court despite his poor shooting. Miami seriously is not that good.
minorthreatt says
I almost wish I could believe in the tanking theories, but I think B. Scott was playing to win a close game last night, and stuck with his “guys” to try to pull it out, depressing as the result was. Still don’t see what he’s seeing in Price/Ellington that Clarkson can’t get a few minutes of burn somewhere. As has been said here, he might as well be in the D-League if he’s just gonna keep racking up DNPs.
At least Black has taken Sacre’s spot in the rotation — there’s one small step for the youth movement. Sac can reclaim it if/when they move Hill, I suppose, but I really don’t miss seeing him.
btoy says
Is Byron Scott building or tanking the Lakers Team…until now he still expermenting the Lakers Team by building a low percentage shooting players as his starter as if he is waiting a miracle that these starter can produce a point….and then he use his bench player to rescue the mess what his starter have done…still expermenting the Lakers team?????????????. please let the assistant coach take over for the meantime……please…
BigCitySid says
-39 down, 43 to go. Lakers holding study to 4th place in the reverse standings.
-@ Victor, ” We came very close to having 80% of our cap tied to two players who likely will be out of action by the all-star break.” No need to worry about that. Neither Kobe or Melo will shut down BEFORE the all-star game, both are playing in that game, lol. Afterwards is another story.
Stuart says
Channeling Big City Sid: @ Victor, ” We came very close to having 80% of our cap tied to two players who likely will be out of action by the all-star break.” No need to worry about that. Neither Kobe or Melo will shut down BEFORE the all-star game, both are playing in that game, lol. Afterwards is another story.
—
Actually, if we had signed Melo and if he and Kobe indeed shut it down after the All-Star game their salaries combined with Nash’s would have meant that over 90% of the Lakers cap space would have been allocated to players out for the year. I wonder if any team in any sport has ever come near that figure.
See Lakers’ faithful, there ARE some records of incompetence that even this year’s team can’t reach.
Trip says
George: Well, if true then the intrigue begins. The only reason to play hard ball against probing questions is if the answers would be embarrassing. The only reason they would be embarrassing is if they point to mistakes or more likely blatant incompetence by one or more of the Buss kids.
__
I would suspect that the hardcore fan knows that something is not right in the Lakers’ FO. As we have dissected many times here, there are basketball decisions being made, that in the context of a hard cap league, simply do not make sense. Maybe the FO is trying to stifle the media because, as unbelievable as it sounds, the majority of casual fans haven’t figured out that ‘the emperor has no clothes’ yet.
T. Rogers says
I really hope the Lakers are working on some trades for Lin and Hill. Not that I don’t like those two. But with just about half the games played we can all admit this season is a wrap. Move those guys for some draft picks and look forward. Give the young guys on the team more burn to see what they can develop into. As Darius has said its about the future now.
Kobe looks like he has hit a wall. Even when he takes games off he still looks like he’s struggling.
Robert says
BCS: As I covered about a week ago, the implication that Kobe is going to target the ASG or play in the ASG at the expense of the regular season is simply unfounded. He has been named to 16 ASGs. He has played in 14 of them. Two times (2008 + 2010), Kobe either skipped the game or played for 2 minutes because the league forced him to, in spite of the fact that he was playing in the regular season (before and after the ASG break). He has never played in the ASG and then taken regular season games off. This includes when that punk Wade broke Kobe’s nose in the ASG. So your (and others) insinuations that Kobe is going to selfishly play in the ASG are simply off base. Kobe playing in the ASG is one of the few highlights we have left in the season. This is in spite of the dozens of posts that occurred earlier then year that insisted that if only Kobe and Byron came to their senses, we could contend for the playoffs. I think everyone has finally realized that is not the case. We are 2-4 without Kobe and have roughly the same winning percentage with him. I am not anticipating a dramatic change in that percentage no matter what happens. Kobe “shutting it down” will result in J Lin, C Boozer, and N Young being our featured guys. If you think that featuring those guys, somehow gets us closer to a title, then please clue me in as to why.
Robert says
T Rogers: “As Darius has said its about the future now. ” Not questioning you or Darius for that matter, but it should have been about the future a long time ago. Anyone entering into the last couple of years not thinking that it should have been about the future, was dreaming. The minute DH did not sign back with us, our present left and it should have all been about the future. If the team has been fooling itself that we had some sort of present for the past 1 1/2 years, then we are worse off in the FO than I even thought.
david h says
hey darius: how do I put this? my crystal ball tells me that every time jimmy b comes up with an idea the opposite happens; he is a living, breathing jinx.
jimmy b pretty much cursed the laker organization for the next few years when last year he proclaimed that he will step aside in the next 3 or 4 years if the team is not contending for a championship. who was he kidding?
jimmy b’s legacy will forever be linked to ford’s edsel; sony’s betamx vcr and the mayan calendar.
otherwise, he seems to be a fine fellow.
so much for crystal balls.
Go Lakers
Stuart says
Trip: Maybe the FO is trying to stifle the media because, as unbelievable as it sounds, the majority of casual fans haven’t figured out that ‘the emperor has no clothes’ yet.
___
Classic. However, this is likely true. Many, even on this board, are all too eager to drink the Lakers’ Cool-Aid.
Vasheed says
I agree with Darius that Kelly is really a PF. However, considering their glut at that position while relative weakness at SF I’m not shocked to see him getting minutes at SF.
gene says
Kobe has never been a good outside shooter….take away his layups and dunks… He is a 35% shooter basically…
BigCitySid says
@ Robert, I’m sure you have read/heard about the possibility of shutting Kobe down for the remainder of the season. My post simply states that won’t happen before the All-Star break because I believe he wants to play in that game. And based on voting results, so do his fans worldwide. Many may see it as coincidence that Kobe (&/or Scott) decided to cut back on Kobe’s minutes, games, shots only after Kobe passed MJ on the scoring list, I don’t. That was a major goal for him (and his legend of fans) for this season.
As I mentioned previously, those were two of three realistic goals for Kobe this season (other being the most important, returning healthy.) No more…no less.
hop says
Last night by halftime the starters had accumulated 16 points. The bench had 18 points in less time on the floor. no way we should have played the starters that much last night. The loss again was on Byron Scott.
Kobe 3-19
Wesley 3-13
Price 0-4 and he played horrible defense
Calvin Chang says
@Robert: You’re right- it looks like the Lakers win about 1 out of every 3 games with or without Kobe, whether Kobe plays with a score-first mentality, or pass-first. Given that Kobe’s body is apparently breaking down, what steps would you recommend to Jim Buss and Byron for the rest of this season if they consulted you? (you can’t ask Jim to give up his position or resign)
Tony says
It’s a shame that Randle had to miss the year. I see that Andrew Wiggins, who struggled for much of the early going, has begun to put up some nice numbers. I imagine that Julius would have started to find his stride by now as well.
The Lakers have a lot of depth at the four, with Hill (a true PF), Davis, Boozer, Black and Kelly. While it is true that all of these guys won’t be back next year, it would have been a huge benefit to see if Randle projects to be a 36 minute rotation player, could play/guard the three, etc.
Additionally, one of the few difference makers on the FA market this off season is Greg Monroe, who plays PF (note, he came into the league as a center). Lastly, if the Lakers keep their pick, they should note that 7 of the top 10 players (according to ESPN) are centers or power forwards.
The Lakers are weak at center, shooting forward, shooting guard and point guard. It makes sense to deal from their surplus to acquire either young players/assets at these positions of need.
Interesting times indeed.
Oldtimer says
Kobe and Young hit some skid and could not buy a basket, what used to be ordinary feat it became an extraordinary effort just to get a good shot. Well, whatever several posters say I will still go with these two players. Young should go for more layups while Kobe just adjust his mojo. To create doubts on Kobe’s loyalty to the Lakers at this juncture is pure paranoia to bring back the hate of yesteryears. His 19 years with this team, helping in 7 Finals; 5 rings is enough to give this guy a free pass and a golden parachute for those people who are familiar with CEO’s bonuses and privies after length of service. Having said that, he can still compete with youth like Whiteside and still a power to be reckoned on a give days. Unfortunately, this blog is trying to extricate itself from minutiae of CBA created by Stern and the steps taken by the unimaginative owner, Jim Buss. Just mentioning those names will all give us pure stress, it will take sometime for all fans, the cosmopolitan city and the storied franchise could get out of this quicksand of gargantuan problems created by these two individuals. There is no argument in any blog that could settle these issues until they all just disappear from the landscape, Stern is gone but his law has been laid down. Jimbo, I don’t know when will his reign end. I just know that this city will not keep up with inept individuals permeate despair to entertainment industry forever.
the other Stephen says
I like this map: https://interactive.twitter.com/nba_followers/#?mode=team&team=all
BigCitySid says
I threw out the following question to Chad Ford on his ESPN chat today:
BigCitySid (Harlem, NY)
“Based on the information available now, please rank which of the following teams have the best chance of “turning it around” by 2016-17: Knicks, Celtics, Lakers, Sixers, or Nets?”
Chad Ford
(1:30 PM)
Gotta answer a question from a user named “BigCitySid” — especially if you are from Harlem. Here’s my answer of the current bad teams in rebuilding mode right now. I’ve added a few:1. Wolves2. Jazz3. Celtics4. Sixers5. Lakers6. Knicks7. Nets
Sure, it’s only one man’s opinion, however that’s a pretty scary projection. Wolves & Jazz are currently the Lakers competition for worst team in the West and both are viewed as most likely rebuilding team to turn it around in two years…and the Celtics in third just adds insult to injury.
Lakers, Knicks, Nets…currently three of the worst managed teams in the NBA 🙁
tankyou says
@Gene, Kobe was a good shooter for a handful of seasons, but never a great outside shooter. But truly his amazing ability to get to the hole and dunk/layup or draw endless amounts of free throws is in steep decline. I’m guessing he was more like a low 40’s % outside shooter during his prime. Remember Kobe did have a couple seasons where he shot real well from three point range–36%-ish. At least Kobe made some nice passes and got a few boards, whereas Swaggy missed 9 shots the second half.
@Hop, Yeah Price shouldn’t be starting over Lin in any imaginable way–unless you want the team to lose more games. Ronnie has a had a few nice games for sure, but he just doesn’t impact the game much. Now that he gets starters minutes every defensive stat he has is now worse than Lins. Last night Chalmers made Price look like a joke on D, and that’s a big part why we didn’t pull out a win. Overall though, why the bench didn’t all play 25mins or so (well maybe besides Boozer who was lousy last night) makes no real sense. This 1st unit experiment has gone on for a long time, thus far the 1st unit is offensively much worse, and overall as bad or worse defensively.
Giving Ed Davis time/start makes sense to me, for development and to make him happy and hopefully* resigning him next season. Tark Black looks like a good guy to sign as well. Boozer can’t be traded, and who knows what they do with him–but someone will offer him a few mill to come off the bench and score and rebound–which he still can do just fine most nights. Lin for me is the real question mark, he scores and assists and clearly helps our team win or come close to winning, but then gets something like 18/16mins the two games after that. IF they are going to trade them you would think they would give him more mins than that, I suppose Scott is either trying to lose a fair amount, or is just clueless and loves old players and wants guys like Clarkson/Lin to play little to none. Also what was up with Ellington getting a DNP??
rr says
Lakers, Knicks, Nets…currently three of the worst managed teams in the NBA
—
I and others said this several months ago. It is not a very complex question. The Lakers, Knicks and Nets are in the worst shape of all the franchises in the sport right now.
rr says
what steps would you recommend to Jim Buss and Byron for the rest of this season if they consulted you?
—
You didn’t ask me, but it’s not hard. Move Lin and Hill for whatever they can get, and let Clarkson, Kelly, and Black play some. Play Kobe when he wants to play, and have him go 28-32 MPG when he does. If Kobe comes to the FO/Byron after the ASG and wants to shut it down for the year, obviously let him, although that will just draw another bright line under how silly his contract is.
The larger question is whether the organization needs to be re-trenched, in terms of statistical analysis, international scouting, and injury prevention. I don’t have the answers, but I do think that a perception exists in the industry that the Lakers have fallen behind the times, and having the team revolve around Kobe Bryant, be coached by Byron Scott, and run by Jerry Buss’ children may be reinforcing that IMO. People operating under the presumption that the Lakers will be a big draw for FAs should IMO be concerned about these issues.
Also, as long as the endless Scott-bashing is going on, I will make this point again: Scott came here with a long track record, had been around the Lakers for years after his last coaching gig, the FO took weeks to hire him, and interviewed him three times. He is coaching this team exactly as I expected him to, and little things–like playing Wayne Ellington when Nick Young is having a bad night–don’t really matter. So, while I think it is fine to point out certain things that Scott may be doing that people don’t like, that should be done with the understanding that the FO made the call to bring him in–on a sizable, multi-year deal and that this is just a bad team.
Calvin Chang says
If I were in the GM position (Jim / Mitch), at this stage, the goals would be: 1.) Get draft picks 2.) Develop future players 3.) Still try to keep team relevant, generate buzz through gimmicks to keep sponsorship and ad revenue coming 4.) While clearing cap space.
For #1 and #4, I’ll try to trade Jordan Hill, Sacre, Swaggy, and even Ed Davis for picks. Tarik is like Ed Davis anyway.
#2, Have Tarik, RKelly, Clarkson play 15 mins per game minimum.
#3 play Kobe about 28 mins per game. Play Lin at least 25 mins per game. Sign Sim Bhullar for minimum non-guaranteed. Play Sim at least 15 mins per game. Kobe and Lin have a lot of fans. Lin himself attracts sponsorship that covers half his salary. Add Sim Bhullar – the first NBA player of Indian descent and he’s 7ft5. That will generate so much buzz. India has a billion people. The buzz and sponsorship Sim will bring will pay for his salary x10+. In addition, there’s a chance that maybe he can play. He can definitely block shots. His nickname should be “The Mountain”, and he’ll be instructed to wave his finger at the crowd every time he blocks a shot. That will agitate opponents and get Lakers on ESPN.
These moves will keep eyeballs on the Lakers, but still keep them in position to get their draft pick.
tankyou says
@rr, Knicks are in bad shape for sure. But Phil J. is cleaning house and resetting the roster–which certainly needed done in their case. With Amare coming of the books next year they will have mega financial flexibility. I just don’t think there are that many wonderful free agents available next year. But they could put together a core of decent players. But they are in draft pick negativity just like LA having traded away so many future picks. But I’m not sold on Melo being somebody to build around at all, especially at his age and with his body struggling year after year now. But I’m with you on the Lakers. Honestly does anyone really think that LA will even make the playoffs within 3 more years–let alone be “contenders”. I don’t.
rr says
tankyou,
Yeah, I think the Knicks have a better chance to get off the deck soon than the Lakers do.
Robert says
Calvin: “what steps would you recommend to Jim Buss and Byron for the rest of this season if they consulted you? (you can’t ask Jim to give up his position or resign)” You know me to well with regard to the caveat you added : ) That said We are a train wreck. I would trade anything that I could get a draft pick for. I would not trade any picks away at this point. I would not make any trades with or sign any coaches from the Phoenix Suns. Sign many 1 year contracts for 2016. Sign guys who are young and are gambles You have suggested a couple of those (big 7 foot+ guys who do no know how to play are perfect). What do we have to lose? So basically tank for 2016 unless Shaq, Wilt, or Kareem become available (in their prime of course). I would correct the Nick Young mistake and ship him out. He is going to take up cap space and he is the last guy that big name FA want on the team (a guy who every third game or so is going to try to take over the whole game – try explaining that to KD). I would start figuring out which players want to play together and for what coaches so scenarios could be put together (for summer of 16) where we could sign a group together. Until then – keep Byron, let Kobe shoot. Play young guys and Kobe. Make sure Kobe’s future is clear gong into 2015-2016. If that is a retirement tour – so be it – but do not have an open question on the table for potential FA. Then ride out another very bad season. Let the angry fans blame it all on Kobe and Byron. And lastly – I would recommend a new wardrobe to Jim. Byron could help him with this.
Rubenowski says
I wanted to see just how much most of us commenters here were prisoners of the moment, so I went back through the archives to see what people were saying during the Nash and Dwight trades. It was interesting…
KO was punching his head over and over for every time he’d doubted Jim and Mitch. (And this is almost a direct quote.)
Aaron was Aaron, as usual, saying Nash was an average PG. Anyway, he turned out to be right in that he was very very old and we should hope he didn’t get injured (I didn’t catch the injury comment in my read-through but I do remember him warning against it.) He was slightly right with the DH back issues that year, but we now see that DH has gotten closer to his old self. And we all know he was wrong about Drew because…where’s Drew? Though I must admit that if healthy, Drew was better.(At least I would pick a healthy and mature Drew over a healthy Dwight, but that’s just me.)
There were some commenters that were skeptical of the move, sighting the give-away of future picks (which turned out to be true) and the possibility for injury regarding Nash (also true.)
But there were a lot of positive comments, too. Even Grantland writers (you know, the ones that keep hating on Kobe and saying the Lakers FO is a mess) were giving the Lakers two thumbs up. (http://grantland.com/features/mailbag/)
Naturally, I was excited about the moves. But I knew I couldn’t proclaim the team champions yet. Memories of the Kobe-Shaq-Malone-Payton team were still alive in me, and I knew that just because a team looked great on paper it didn’t mean it would look great on the court (look at the Cavs) and we also needed luck to be on our side (it was not.)
We all knew the team was swinging for the fences. We also knew there was a lot of risk involved. We gave away picks, we acquired an old player who had back problems and a young player who was coming off back surgery and who was going to be a free agent the following year. The team did this for the chance at 2-3 years of continued glory and the chance for Kobe to match or pass Jordan in rings and play against LBJ and Wade in the finals. If that had been the outcome we would’ve loved it and we wouldn’t have cared about the near future.
We are now living out the consequences of such a gamble not paying out. We lost. But so what? We went down swinging. At least we tried. This was foreseen in the plan. It sucks living out the plan when things go wrong, but we must grow up.
Frankly, I don’t regret it one bit. And I still believe this team will eventually get back to the top.
Hale says
Jordan Hill, hyper-extended knee. He was injured when the Lakers got him from the Fisher dump. His trade value is possibly being lessened as he shows injury history and his game is more exposed. I’m guessing his value might have been greater last year when there were still questions as to his capabilities and stamina.
I wouldn’t mind keeping Lin but I don’t get the feeling he’d want to stay come Summer. It seems his skill set will be misused as long as Byron is coach. Some of that goes to Lin but my patience with Byron has passed. The statements he makes are routinely blunt –as in dunce cap variety. The grit my teeth to strive for mediocrity riot act is tired. Plus, I can’t stay awake for the games anymore.
With Kobe injured, perpetually fatigued or whatever the damn issue is the only thing that MIGHT keep my eyelids from obscuring the game is by them playing the kids or a significant trade. The former shouldn’t be as unlikely as the latter but it seems Byron needs a brick to the noggin to get basics (don’t overplay your old dude who’s coming off of a year and a half of devastating injury) and I’m not looking for Ramon Sessions’ inglorious return. I wouldn’t care if the Lakers had a Knicks-like record if it didn’t seem like this journey is one ill-managed shipwreck to the next. Sharing Staples with the original Shipwreckers finally allowed for their loser virus to break through the team’s immune system.
rr says
Robert’s post is good. I felt strongly at the time that giving Nick Young a four-year deal was a mistake. I am not sure, however, that Young’s presence or absence would sway any FAs. Other than:
1. Top guys want to play for good teams.
2. Each guy is different
It is hard to speculate about FAs.
BigCitySid says
@ Robert, your plan is one I could live with. I believe most on FB&G could also, however…
Lakers, Knicks, & Nets all have the same problem. Filling expensive seats with an entertaining product in cities known for entertainment. I don’t know if these teams can afford to build like a small market team. How would they justify high price tickets? Stay on national TV? Get the big name celebs to come out? Compete for that all important disposal entertainment $$’s when so many other choices exist in L A & NYC? Casual fans, tourist & the “big event crowd” just aren’t interested in the type of short term team you’re proposing.
Would be a sweet marketing ploy to cut ticket prices & cable cost (yeah right) for the next two seasons (losing a few $$’s, but gaining a lot of public relations) while the Lakers are in “transition”.
rr says
Stay on national TV? Get the big name celebs to come out? Compete for that all important disposal entertainment $$’s when so many other choices exist in L A & NYC? Casual fans, tourist & the “big event crowd” just aren’t interested in the type of short term team you’re proposing.
—
A couple of their games have already been pulled from the national TV schedule. Also, like I said before the season and again recently: losing is losing, with or without Kobe. And, 36 year-old Kobe is probably not the draw that that 28-year-old Kobe was.
I get the impression at times that both the FO and Kobe thought that his presence on these teams would make it like the 2006 and 2007 teams again. But those teams had Kobe in his prime, Phil on the bench, and Lamar Odom in his prime. Also, of course, the West is absolutely brutal right now, which makes things even tougher.
Mike says
Why is a 31 year old, career third string guard starting for us and playing major minutes? He has no future with the team, won’t improve at this point in his career, isn’t helping us win anyways, so why does he get minutes over guys who might have a future with the team and can improve?
Calvin Chang says
@Robert: So you think next season is also hopeless? That’s depressing…
@rr: Unfortunately, the owner Jim B is old school and doesn’t believe in the new methods of scouting and analytics. I doubt anything will change until he gives up the basketball decision-making to an expert.
dxmanners says
Awesome post Victor. Only thing you missed was the horrible Nash trade. Who trades so many assets for a near 40 point guard? Dumb, dumb, dumb.
tankyou says
@Mike, yeah I have no clue whats up with the Ronnie Price situation. Scott just likes old vets basically, or doesn’t like Lin so is marginalizing him even when he plays really well. Of course Jordan Clarkson is also in limbo, barely playing in the D-league and barely getting any minutes on the court. I would like to See Lin get the bulk of the minutes with Clarkson as the back-up with Price only playing if somebody gets injured.
@Calvin, put me in the next year is hopeless category. Who are they developing this year?! Ed Davis is it. Please don’t say Ronnie Price or Wes Johnson those ships floated a long time ago. So apparently they don’t want to keep basically anybody else on this roster, except for perhaps the new guy Tarik Black. Kobe is not going to have a magical resurgence, its just human biology at work at this point. I just hope Kobe can give us a good game here and there, but purely for entertainment’s sake. I really don’t get Robert’s desire to watch Kobe play horrible, I prefer to not have my memory sullied by 3-19 displays. Swaggy is basically worthless when he isn’t hitting his shots, beyond comic relief. Draft picks for Hill/Lin won’t be good if they trade them, they would be lucky to get late 1st round picks, likely 2nd round picks at this point. They aren’t showcasing Lin in anyway, and Hill for the most part has been playing poorly for a month. So even trading them gives us about nothing. Good luck rebuilding with a late 1st and maybe a 2nd round pick (for Hill theoretically). At best Randle takes half a year to develop into a solid NBA rotational player–since he basically is redoing his rookie year–but worse than that, coming off of injuries. Kobe ‘Resting” won’t make a bit of difference next year, its not going to make him age 30 again. So what is swing for the park next year then—Dragic? Rondo? Doubtful either would choose to come here anyway, but if so, we maybe win a few more games at best. And don’t we give away our 1st round pick in 2015 anyway, even if we Tank next year?
Chris J says
I agree with those who feel it’s wise to begin seeing what we have in some of the younger guys. If Hill or Lin can be dealt for something with more long-term benefits, make the deal. Let Kelly and Clarkson develop and see what they’re made of; maybe there’s some upside, maybe not — but they’ve got more upside to the Lakers than a veteran on a one-year deal who is basically a known product at this point.
This is where the lack of cohesion is so frustrating. They dealt away Blake to get Bazemore and Brooks, which was encouraging to see some young legs on the floor — and then they didn’t keep either one after the season ended. Meanwhile, they had opportunities to deal Howard, Kaman or Pau at the trade deadlines in recent seasons but failed to move any of them, and then got nothing as they bolted as free agents.
I think the plan for the last two seasons was to compete for a lower-tier playoff berth, play well enough to entertain the fans and hope to make a big splash with free agency. That hasn’t worked, largely due to injuries, but if the idea now is to shut Kobe down, then go all-in on the shut down and look to move assets that have no long-term future in L.A. If you’re going to rebuild with a youth movement, play the youth you have and take steps to add more youth, a la what Ainge is doing in Boston. Trying to have one foot in and one foot out, it just isn’t working — and knowledgeable fans sense that.
Robert says
tankyou: ” I really don’t get Robert’s desire to watch Kobe play horrible” Why would you think I have that desire? First off – there have been a number of games this year, where I have enjoyed Kobe immensely. There have been a few 30+ games, the triple-double, and a certain game in Minny, which could have been the best sporting event I ever attended. However more importantly – what exactly is the alternative? Are you proposing that Kobe immediately retire so he can make room for the list of guys you included in your last post? : ) Or perhaps you want Kobe to keep playing, but you just want me to join the ranks of the Kobe/Byron bashers, which is a large group of Laker fans who believe that everything is their fault even though we (as per your last post and mine) believe that the situation is hopeless no matter what they do? : ) I have said a number of times, that if you give me a solid reason why Kobe needs to get out of the way, I will support it. Until then I will root for Kobe.
Oldtimer says
It will all settle down once we reach the ASG break, in fact by Jan. 15th JHill can be moved. We need a Center and a PG. One thing that we don’t know is who is being offered for a package. Let’s give Jim Buss and Mitch till the end of season in what direction they are heading. My take is to improve it gradually by adding valuable pieces. It is OK to trade draft picks provided they get an impact player who would change the dynamics of the team. It is like plugging the holes now than experimenting with draft picks of players who excelled in College rank, don’t know if you’ll get a Durant or Oden in the next five years. While if you choose the player now, that is if there is that window of opportunity, you immediately know that Goran or Marc Gasol, could turn around the franchise. After Kobe, you try to woo Durant with interesting players on hand not just raw draft picks still in the pipe line acclimatizing in NBA.
We can analyze, argue, counter analyze as much as we want but the sad truth we are not the ultimate decision maker. Well, Jimbo, the hat will go with Chaz as his trusted advisor and maybe the spirit of alcohol will help them in maneuvering a billion franchise. Based on historical decisions, he has the habit of doing an all or nothing moves: either he goes all out for CP3 or happy with Jason Kapono, McRoberts; a Dwight Howard or settle down with 7 footer Rob Sacre and finally an expensive Melo or buy on auction Carlos Boozer. He oscillates from a wide spread parameter as a wanderlust spender that could exceed luxury limits or be a frugal Dutch at the expense of the Lakers by postponing opportunities to a later date.
J C says
The Lakers are the Clippers from 10 years ago. Mismanaged. Adrift at sea.
There are so many problems it’s hard to know where to begin and difficult to tell how long it will take to rebuild.
How many more games would we have won this year with a healthy Randle and Nash?
5? 10? The latter number is questionable.
I love my team but I think it’s time for ownership to sell.
A fresh start with a bright, energetic, and enthusiastic helmsman is hereby prescribed.
Reggie Hammond says
i miss Ko he keeps it real
Ko says
Thanks Reggie. Just taking a Laker sabbatical. Was getting to negative.
The Dane says
@JC
New ownership rarely leads to quick turnarounds, and Lakers are not the old Clippers, because the old Clippers kept getting things wrongs over and over and over… even when things looked bright, they managed to bet on the wrong horses. I for one still have faith that Lakers will return to a path of growth and progress.
J C says
Dane,
I still have an ultimate faith in the Laker brand, since I’ve been a fan for so long.
The universe will right itself eventually.
Just not sure Jim Buss will ever ‘get it.’
The FO’s strategies seem a bit myopic/stuck in the past.
Just feels to me like an infusion of new blood is needed, and I believe Jim will sell before he steps down.
Although I’d like to think Jeannie still has enough sense to make changes when it’s clear that’s the only way to save the franchise, and she may not be ready to ride off into the sunset quite yet.
Time will tell!
I’m not going anywhere for awhile.
I’m a Laker fan for life, for better or worse 🙂
PurpleBlood says
Both Chris J and J C´s posts sum up what i´m going through with our bleoved Lakers right now. Thanks fellas –
___
Robert,
i´m firmly on board with you man: The Mamba stays & plays – & Jim B gets wardrobe adviced from Byron!
R says
Welcome back, Ko!
I was seriously concerned you were gone for good and glad you decided to stick around.
T. Rogers says
Ken,
You have to hang around. You missed your calling as an entertainer. Your posts here are often the only entertainment I get from Lakers games these days. Plus, the couple times I caught you on Lakers Line or Mason and Ireland you made me chuckle. Keep it coming. We need the detached and reflective posts from fans like RR. But we need the passion from fans like you as well.