Thank goodness for Jordan Clarkson. Wait. What?
If I’d have told you, when the season’s schedule came out, that the thing I’d be looking forward to the most when the Lakers and Knicks played a Sunday day game — originally scheduled to be on ABC — was the second round rookie’s play, you’d have thought I was making some sort of a sick joke. After all, this is Lakers vs. Knicks. Kobe! Carmelo!! Derek Fisher and Phil Jackson returning the Knicks to prominence!!! Yeah, not so much (at least not yet).
With Kobe injured, Carmelo battling a nagging knee issues, and Derek/Phil stewarding one of the worst Knicks’ teams in history, this game got dumped from ABC and is now just a regular game between two bad teams broadcast on local TV as a prelude to today’s Super Bowl. So, I’ll say it again: thank goodness for Jordan Clarkson.
The rookie guard starts his 5th consecutive game for the Lakers and is showing signs of being a real player in this league. In the four contests leading up to this one, the rook has squared off against Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, and John Wall and held his own in each match up. There are still major strides to make and his learning curve is steep, but those things were to be expected when he was drafted out of Missouri. What he has, however, are things no other point guard on the team currently does: a combination of youth, athleticism, and a quality that makes you want to zero in on him when he’s on the floor. And while Lin is the better player, it is Clarkson who is capturing the imagination of Lakers’ fans as a potential building block for the future.
So, for the time being and with Julius Randle hurt, Clarkson becomes the young player worth turning in for. With Kobe Byrant out as well and the team shifting into rebuild mode more and more with every passing game, keeping tabs on Clarkson’s development is actually one of the more tangible things to do while watching the games. How is he managing the offense? Is he able to navigate the 2nd level of a defense? How is his court vision progressing? Can he start to make his jumper with more consistency as defenders play off him? Is he learning from his mistakes? These are questions we seek the answers to and the game experience is what will provide the answers.
As an aside, while I have been hard on Byron Scott for a lot of reasons and still disagree with some of the decisions he’s making (Ryan Kelly playing a lot of SF and Tarik Black — if healthy enough to play — getting DNP-CD’s are two examples), I think he deserves some credit lately. When Nick Young was playing with poor effort, he benched him in the game against the Rockets. He has inserted Clarkson into the starting lineup, removed Price from the rotation, and found a workable rotation for his big men (though, again, at some point I would want to see Kelly slotted appropriately and Black return to getting minutes). His players are, for the most part, playing hard in the face of long losing streaks and being outmatched from a talent standpoint almost every game.
He has his flaws as a coach and a full analysis on how he’s done this season will involve several things I’d call missteps, but his recent responses to injuries via lineup changes and rotations adjustments have been solid and are more indicative of the process you’d want from a team rebuilding. I’d like to see a bigger push in that direction, but those things may be coming soon without his doing should the Lakers dive into the trade season.
In any event, there is a game today. And I’ve been able to get through almost this entire preview without discussing a single item regarding the actual Lakers/Knicks game. Which, considering the quality of the teams, is exactly what I’m thinking this match up deserves.
Where you can watch: Early 11am start time on TWC Sportsnet. Also listen on ESPN Radio 710AM Los Angeles.
Craig W. says
This one is for Warren.
What, some of us don’t want to win? Sorry – please delete the above comment.
Mehdi says
Good take on today’s game. Clarkson has been a bright spot in the last four games and I hope to see him develop his skill set even further. He can be a really interesting piece for the Lakers’ future. Could he perhaps finish out the season? It’s an idea.
Baylor Fan says
The big difference between the Knicks and the Lakers is that the Knicks know who they are. They are installing the triangle offense and Phil and Derek knew that it would be a difficult slog for at least one year. Players need to learn the system and the talent needs a serious upgrade. However, the Knicks have won 4 of their past 6 games and are showing signs of a pulse.
The Lakers on the other hand are playing not to lose. They rarely pass the ball on offense which has cut down their turnover rate and decreased the number of fast breaks for their opponents. The defense has gotten better at stopping the first option and the athleticism is improved with Kobe off the court. Just the same, this is not the offense that will lead the Lakers to their next playoff visit.
Calvin Chang says
Good write-up, DS. Go Clarkson! Gilas Philippines is going to recruit you for the Olympic qualifiers like Andray Blatche!
Calvin Chang says
DS: On a side note, what’s your opinion on the Hawks? Are they real contenders? Traditionally, it’s easy to think a team needs superstars to be a contender. Before the season started, I thought the Hawks would be battling for .400 to make the East playoffs given their 2nd tier talent and ownership scandal. But they keep on winning and winning. Best record in the league. Are they for real? Is this a blueprint of how to contend with average talent and elite coaching?
Calvin Chang says
From the limited minutes I saw of Randle in pre-season, summer league and practice, I saw him do a lot of coast-to-coast attacks after he gets the def board. I did not see him with a back-to-the-basket game though. It would be good if he can pattern his game after Z-Bo. Randle has size, strength, agility. If he can learn to patiently back down his defender in the post like Zach and use pivot and spin moves to get to his left, he’ll be a legitimate low-post option and save wear and tear on his legs.
nomuskles says
Ronnie Price has played pretty well at times this year. It must be tough for Byron to bench him in the interest of future wins. Coaches don’t often get a long-term chance to turn teams around.
Matt says
Response to a comment in the preceding discussion regarding why the Lakers don’t seem to want to make trades.
—
Lil pau- you are correct unless the FO wants to play the ‘awkward roster’ game and get their hands dirty then you don’t trade your players for picks and matching salaries in return. Its a process that requires a commitment — as it takes time, because you have to be willing to take back ill fitting players with more than one year left on their contracts.
Danny Ainge has embraced that approach and while it has netted awful teams these past few years he does have 19 picks over the next four drafts to build upon a young core. Also, note the Celtics begin to have significant cap space starting next year.
The Lakers have decided not to go down the ‘trade’ road and have let Howard, Meeks, Kaman and Pau go for nothing. They also seem ready to do the same with Lin and Davis. Yes, this approach has yielded cap space. Unfortunately the Lakers have only generated 1 additional pick (Lin + #1 from Houston) by doing so.
While injuries have played a role, the bottom line is that the Lakers have had an equally dismal recent record as the Celtics. So the Lakers and Celtics are essentially at the same place, however because Ainge chose to get his hands dirty Boston has (arguably) a much brighter future that the Lakers.
bleedpurplegold says
why is kelly starting 2night????
Ko says
Why did they bring Kelly back from Z League and why is Sacre starting.
BS knows what he has in those two. 3 TO zero points from them already. Two worst starters in LA history. Playing young guys sure, playing bad payers stupid.
Kevin T says
Ugly game
rr says
Matt,
Good post. As I have noted several times, Buss and Kupchak have made numerous public statements emphasizing the importance of financial flexibility and in his most recent interview, Buss talked once again about bringing in two max free agents. So, doing what Ainge did has never really been the plan. Ainge seemingly believes, correctly IMO, that FAs will not see Boston as a top destination.
Also, of course, the huge Brooklyn/Boston trade was a very unusual situation, sort of like if the Lakers had traded Kobe and Pau to the same team in 2012 for bad contracts and a bunch of picks
Tim says
Jordan Hill limping off the court heading to the locker room, something to keep an eye on. Might be a hip/groin problem.
Tim says
Jordan Hill is out for the rest of the game with a rectus femorus strain of the right quad.
bleedpurplegold says
hill out, if injured we lost one of maybe 2-3 tradable pieces on our roster….he was also on the verge of a big rebounding game tonight, checked out with 5 in 7mins
kelly couldnt guard a stone if his life depends on it…..worst player in the nba?
Galloway looking like an all-nba player against our D….
sidenote: whiteside with another solid game so far (10-4 in 15mins)….its a shame that we pased on him and signed 10 PFs instaed of a real 7ft player
LKK says
Boozer has been a real pro for this team. Hasn’t complained or created negative energy and has produced on the 2nd unit.
Phil Jackson was quoted in the NYC papers as saying he has “divorced” himself from the Lakers. Man laughs all the way to the bank.
Calvin Chang says
bleed – Whiteside is the steal of the season. From D-league bum to legit rim protector and nightly double-double threat
LKK says
When did NBA refs stop calling fouls?
Ko says
How dumb do you need to be to put Jelly Kelly on Anthony. Watched him in D league game and he couldn’t guard anyone. Guy is a lifetime D. Wake the heck up Mr. Tank.
BTW every time I post I see Purple beat me to the thought.
Great minds!
bleedpurplegold says
@lkk: agree on boozer…if you look at our big man rotation and the way they have played so far this year, it would be easy for him to go out and demand a starting spot in our rotation…
Ellington looks worse than kelly…lost all hope i had for ed davis….a 10-15min guy at best in this league….1 good game and 3 bad games following that doesnt cut it
Best thing one can say about 2night is that the knicks get a game on us on the tanking standings….go knicks!
minorthreatt says
New metric: when Wes Johnson gets at or near 30 minutes, book another L.
LKK says
@bleedpurplegold….
Agree with your take on Whiteside as well. I mentioned him a couple of weeks ago. It’s very disturbing to me that a team starting Robert Sacre at center in an NBA game completely missed a guy like Whiteside. When your team is lousy, you’ve got to beat the bushes and look under every loose rock for talent. While I don’t know for certain if he was ever on the Lakers’ radar, the fact that he is not a Laker has me shaking my head.
Ko says
It’s official Lakers worst team in NBA to make $100 million while playing like a bad D league team. Welcome to Jimmys World!
Chearn says
For the right price Booz is worth signing. Consummate professional this entire season. He’d be a good player off the bench going forward.
Matt says
Calvin, LKK and KO:
Jim has bet everything on being able to sign Elite FA’s to turn this ship around. The CBA allows other ways — shrewed scouting, trades and drafting well. The Lakers aren’t using all the tools allowed them — they are only focused on cap space.
I’ve already touched on the fact that our FO doesn’t want to focus on trades. Drafting is available only when you have picks (our selection of a potential building block, Randle, is unfortunately an incomplete). Scouting, along the lines of discovering a ‘Whiteside’, takes a sustained commitment from the organization and a little luck. We missed on him but may have found a rotational player in Clarkson.
Stuart says
Chearn: unless the Lakers transform themselves into a contender over the summer I don’t see a mutual interest between the Lakers and Boozer. You mentioned price as a factor, I think he would want the full mid level making him too costly for us. Remember he’s being paid $16 mil this year between the Lakers and Bulls. Plus, I think he’d rather be a contributor on a true playoff team.
bleedpurplegold says
@matt:
I dont get why the fo doesnt want to check the market….we have a record of succesfull trades…from pau to shaq to thompson, kareem, odom or scott, we were always able to get pieces via trade…i think we should go back to that in the near future….so not willing to focus on trades like you said and just waiting for some free agents to be available is just wrong to me….there is no guarantee players will sign with us in the offseasons, we have got to take matters in our own hands like we always did!
Ko says
Pete dumb head Carrol just lost me a lot of money as I Had the 1 and the 8 on a big board final score. Should have been 31 to 28. Really mad.
Fern says
We dont have any assets that could get us an elite player.the only asset that has some value (Hill) could get us maybe a late 1st rounder or a sure second rounder from a contender in need if a backup big man . We dont have anything else to trade that have any value. Im all for trading Hill if we can get another 1st rounder in the next Draft, even if its the 30th pick. I dont know how injured he is but i hope is not bad enough to make him untradeable. Developing superhuman patience here…
Fern says
Joke of the day, i saw a report about Hill’s injury and it refers to him as the Lakers “star”, he is having a good season but i would not call him a star, sheesh things are bad huh?
J C says
Ryan Kelly is a lost cause.
Still our starting 3?
I don’t see him as having a future in the NBA.
Sacre’s defense is fine for a third-string center. 0-6 shooting again.
Pathetic.
KenOak says
@KO
“Pete dumb head Carrol just lost me a lot of money as I Had the 1 and the 8 on a big board final score. Should have been 31 to 28. Really mad.”
Wow, KO, if this is you posting when you’re really mad…you must be foaming during Lakers games. I kid, I kid. How the heck do you not call a run in that position?
T. Rogers says
Fern,
Hill is not a star. But he’s the Lakers’ star. That shows just how far this team has fallen.
Vasheed says
I’ve been hoping a trade for Hill would materialize but, I’d honestly rather keep him then trade him for bad contracts. I think Davis is the Lakers best trade asset right now. He is an effective player on a cheap expendable contract. Any contender could absorb him fairly easily without ripping apart their roster while sending the Lakers a late first round pick back.
Kelly is a fine player. He is one of the few guys on this roster who can consistently hit an open 3. He had been over 40% for most of this season although he has been dropping lately. He forces other teams to guard him out by the perimeter allowing other players room below the rim to operate. Even if Kelly is not scoring he is affecting the game. If teams leave him open he can score a lot of points in a hurry as he has done. He doesn’t try to force things and makes the correct pass if he doesn’t have an open shot. He defends well but does not have athletic ability to stay in front of the fastest elite players in the league. However, as a rotation guy that is not typically expected of him. He is starting now and out of position but is more to do with the condition of the Lakers then anything to do with him. Kelly is a good rotation player who is an asset going forward.
Calvin Chang says
Vasheed – agreed about Kelly. But he is only effective when developed as a stretch 4. Against SFs, his skills are neutralized, and he doesn’t spread out the defense. Imagine playing Channing Frye or Ryan Anderson as your SF. Same result as Kelly now.
Stuart says
Hill is not as marketable as we would have hoped. His contract for next year becomes guaranteed at $9 Mil if he’s traded. He would have been more valuable to the acquiring team if there were no such clause and next year was truly a team option. He remains a team option to the Lakers if he’s not dealt, which seems likely. I would imagine if the Lakers do not spend much cap space this summer then Hill will be back. If they are active then they have the option of letting his salary go to facilitate spending.
Davis has a player option on his contract. With the year he has had he should be in line for a dramatic raise – so he would likely be a half year rental for any team that trades for him now. Again, he’s not likely to bring as much back as you would think. Would the Lakers pay Davis more to keep him? I never thought they would pay what they did for Nick Young so they may opt to try and keep him.
Tarik Black has a similar skill set to Davis which may make one or the other redundant. The question is which one to keep? It should be noted that Tarik is also a FA this summer. He went un-drafted and only signed a one year deal with Houston. So he is also an unknown this off season.
This is why it’s virtually agreed upon by NBA insiders that the Lakers have the least talent and assets in the league. Only Randle and Clarkson would be classified as ‘talented, young and controllable’ by far the most valuable commodity in the league. Sacre and Kelly are controllable but are roster filler at best. Hill and Young are controllable but are nearing age 30 so they are not pieces to build around. Davis and Black are young but not controllable. Lin is not controllable and quite frankly his year here has been less than stellar. Boozer is good, but he’s not young nor is he controllable. Price, Ellington and Johnson are not controllable for a reason — they are marginal talents.
You get the picture and it’s not pretty. The Lakers’ desperately need this year’s draft pick and need it to be a player capable of contributing.
I know the Lakers’ have put all their eggs in the FA basket but I am not as optimistic that elite FAs will find the Lakers that attractive. I am of the mindset that elite FAs want to win now. While no other team can match LA as a desirable destination many other teams will have much better talent to go with their cap space.
BigCitySid says
-Knicks are playing better and have won five of their last 10 games and are gaining fast on the Lakers (1-9 last 10) for the 26th best record n the league. Thanks Fish.
Jesse says
Yes to what Calvin and Vasheed said about Kelly.
I feel bad for the young man as he is not getting any chance to improve or show what he can do as he is completely out of place playing the 3!
How many shots did he get yesterday, 3? No way your small forward should have so few attempts. This bizarro offense LA is playing has something to do with that. Kelly will pass the ball, rotate and watch the play (almost always) go away from him – usually to one of the guards.If you watch the game, you’ll see he rarely gets the ball in a shooting situation.
If I was him, I’d beg to be traded to a team that would at least play me at my natural position, which is (stretch) 4.
Matt says
Stuart – good post. You and I are of the same mind on many of these issues.
Most frustrating to me is the decision to not use trades as a way of obtaining assets (primarily young talent and draft picks). I compared the Lakers with the Celtics whose GM Danny Ainge has embraced trades. So for a few years, while the Celtics stock piled draft picks, they had to endure a roster filled with players who were there only because their contracts fit the parameters of the deals they were involved in. The upside is that they now have a lot of picks over the next four drafts and beginning next year they will have more cap space than the Lakers. Funny thing is that the Lakers had more talent to use in trades – Howard, Pau, Meeks, Kaman, Young, Hill and Lin and will likely have nothing to show for it.
The Celtics have been awful for two years but what about the Lakers? We have been equally awful and we have far less to show for it. The Celtics have more ‘talented, young and controllable’ assets than the Lakers, will have more cap space this off season than us and will be using their first ration of picks from their draft pick arsenal (potentially four 1st round picks and a second). While the Lakers will have a late first round pick (from Houston) they also spent half the year figuring out the obvious – they are not a contender and that keeping their own first round pick was essential.
I acknowledge, as rr pointed out, the Celtics are not top of mind as a FA destination. However, it seems to me that Boston’s draft picks and young talent give them leverage to make key trades – much like adding Garnett and Allen to a core of Pierce and Rondo. That trade produced a team that beat the Lakers for the NBA championship.
George says
Stuart: I did not know that about Tarik Black. I thought he was on a 1st round pick’s contract and was controllable as such. Can anyone verify this? I was hoping that Black was ours for a few years at a very reduced rate. Now he’ll only be ours only if we pay him a market rate. Not a sure thing since I’m sure other teams will be interested in him as well.
Wow, it is finally sinking in. The Lakers’ cupboard is really bare. You’re right the Lakers do need to keep their pick and make it a good one.
Darius Soriano says
Black’s contract is only for this season. Also, trading Hill’s contract doesn’t make the 2nd year of his deal guaranteed. Hill’s contract works in this way:
*Because he loses his Bird Right’s if he’s traded without his option being picked up first, he must consent to any trade if the 2nd year of his deal isn’t guaranteed before the trade.
So…
*If the Lakers want to trade Hill without his consent, they must pick up his option first.
I wrote about this a little while back: http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2015/01/20/assessing-the-lakers-trade-assets/
Calvin Chang says
I remember reading an article on LA times last month about Tarik Black being under non-guaranteed contract next year for minimum. Isn’t that a team option?
Stuart says
Darius: Thanks for the clarification. I should have referenced your recent post – but I thought I had my facts straight. My bad.
Regarding Hill, I think its a long shot he is dealt . While I like him, I don’t see Jordan as a $9 mil player and doubt many other teams do either. Any team trading for him is a paying a premium for his production.
On the flip side: a one year commitment at Hill’s peak may not be a bad thing if you are a team that is desperately trying to get over the hump (ie: the Thunder). Hill is a fantastic rebounder and as Pat Riley said ‘rebounds = rings’.
Darius Soriano says
Regarding Black’s salary for next year, it may actually be a team option at his minimum. Here is the Lakers’ salary page at Basketball Insiders (which, if I’m not mistaken, Eric Pincus maintains):
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/los-angeles-lakers-team-salary/
That page shows he has a team option for next year. If you read an article at the times regarding next year’s salary, I’d imagine Pincus wrote that article too.
Stuart says
Regarding Black, HoopsHype lists his contract as being for one year. I used this as the basis of my comments regarding Black being a FA this off season. Black is a budding rotational big so if the Lakers could keep him a a reduced rate it would help.
Here is the HoopsHype link: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm
R says
Many of us seem to assume the Lakers remain a premier, sought after destination for talented free agents. Honestly, the one undeniable draw of LA would be the beautiful women – a not insignificant consideration. Ok, what else?
J C says
IMO Lakers should try to retain 2 out of 3 of these guys:
Hill, Davis, and Black
Unless some other monster players become avail.
It’s also pretty clear that Hill is the most complete of these three, albeit at higher cost.
Ralph says
Matt: I hate the Celtics so it irritates me to no end that they may rebuild and become competitive before us. It really bums me out that if it were a race between us and Boston, that the Celtics were in much better shape than we are.
I know that Jim and Mitch have prized financial flexibility and not wanted to risk that by making trades and taking back contracts. However, the Celtics have 19 picks over the next 4 years and will have more cap space this summer than the Lakers. What exactly have we gained by allowing a starting five better than what we have walk out the door for nothing (Howard, Pau, Meeks, Kaman and Farmar)?
Jim says that his plan is to sign two elite FA’s and that will jump start the rebuild. As I scan ahead for potential FA candidates I don’t see anything until the summer of 2016. Maybe Jim knows that Love will opt out. Love and Greg Monroe would be a wild guess for this summer – but we passed on Monroe last off season…
Its really painful to see the Lakers struggle so badly and yet pass on many methods (trading to get young assets and picks) of getting better. How can we rely so completely on FAs?
Robert says
George: “Wow, it is finally sinking in. The Lakers’ cupboard is really bare.” Yes – however at least as a consolation, you can say this in peace. When some of us said this 2+ years ago, we were called irrational.
Robert says
R: We also have good night life, the Pacific Ocean, and the celebs. However, what many do not remember is that we have been good most of the time, so that was always a draw in and of itself itself. Bad roster, few picks, and a front office filming re-runs of the Family Feud are not good draws.
R says
Robert sez: “Bad roster, few picks, and a front office filming re-runs of the Family Feud are not good draws.”
well put!
BigCitySid says
-Pertaining to “L. A. remain(ing) a premier, sought after destination for talented free agents.” Let’s remember there’s more than one NBA team playing in L. A.
-For those wanting to improve on the Lakers possibilities of keeping their draft pick: Pekovic, Rubio, and Kevin Martin have returned to the starting line up of the T’ Wolves. Combining w/ Wiggins & T. Young, that’s not a bad starting five and w/ Mo Williams as a sixth man they may make enough noise in the 2nd half of the season to overtake the Lakers (5 games behind). And as previously mentioned, the Knicks are improving (5-5 in their last 10 games) and are only three games back of L. A. Lakers chances of getting the 1st overall draft pick would increase nicely if they feel to the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd worst record.
Trip says
I think you know your in bad shape when the outlook on your franchise depends upon whether Tarik Black has a contract that ties him to the Lakers next season versus him becoming a FA. I mean think about it: an un-drafted FA whose ceiling is slotted 10 – 13 on a good team’s roster is critical to future success?
This is nothing against Tarik. It is more of an indictment of our FO.
R says
BigCity — “let’s remember there’s more than one NBA team playing in LA”
Did ya have to bring that up?:o)
Joshua says
I just came across an article that is not directly related to the Lakers but that some might still find interesting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-psychology-of-why-sports-fans-see-their-teams-as-extensions-of-themselves/2015/01/30/521e0464-a816-11e4-a06b-9df2002b86a0_story.html
John says
So it seems that there is an undercurrent of contributors (Matt and Stuart) that feel strongly that Jim and Mitch should have been more active in the trade market as opposed to letting our assets walk out the door for nothing. I had always just assumed that cap space was king and that the Lakers were a slam dunk sale. I think I may have been wrong as I see the value of the ‘make more trades’ argument.
If trades were not made because of the desire to maintain financial flexibility then how do you explain the fact that we really don’t have that much flexibility until Kobe rolls off the books next summer. Or, the fact that Boston went all in on trades a few years ago and will have more cap room than we will have this summer along with a bunch of draft picks to use. Or the argument that having a lot of draft picks gives an organization financial flexibility in ways that are as valuable as pure cap space — to have young controllable talent and the ability to use picks as leverage in trades for targeted talent.
Our focus on cap space to target elite FAs only works if there are elite FAs available and they want to come to LA. Let’s hope the FO has more ammunition up their sleeves because there are a lot of holes in their sales pitch — not only to Laker Nation but to prospective FAs.
bleedpurplegold says
@bigcity:
but there is a HUGE difference between the most popular, historical relevant, glamoring, marketable and valueble franchise in the association and…well…the flippers….if a superstar would have to choose between those 2 destinations, 99% would come to staples to play for the purple gold and not for a team hanging up a divison banner so they have at least anything to show to their bandwagoners xD
George says
bleedpurplegold: Your statement above is biased – I get that. The issue I and many other posters have is this: superstars tend to hit the FA market at 29 or 30. They only have a limited time to be a) to be elite and b) to play. All things being equal, if both the Lakers and Clippers had a max slot available the elite would pick the Lakers. The intangibles are far and away in favor of the Lakers.
But what if its this Lakers team, a team with so many question marks and no real chance to win in the forseeable future. Would an elite take a chance on us then? What if there were a dozen other teams that have been playing the game better than us and have a surplus of young emerging talent, plenty of near term draft picks as well as cap space? What if they were a player away from winning?
The elite FA would have a better chance to win with any of those other teams over the next 3 or 4 years (which is really all he can expect to have left in his career) than if he chose the Lakers. This is the problem the FO hasn’t addressed in their elite FA or bust approach.
Anon says
I am OK with this year, so long as the stars align and we get to keep our draft pick. Under this scenario, we fall under the cap (thereby avoiding the dreaded luxury tax double dip) and then could even end up with 1 additional first round pick from Houston thanks to Lin, plus 2 other second round picks. Not bad for a bunch of guys some here consider a joke.
Anonymous says
The draw of playing for the Lakers is not L.A. If that was the case, the Clippers would have historically had an equal draw. The draw of the Lakers is.. the Laker name. Google that recent Twitter article showing the popularity of NBA teams across the nation and the globe and you will get an idea why anyone would ever want to play for this team.
Same reason kids across the globe who play soccer dream about playing for the likes of Barca, Real, Man U, Bayern, AC Milan, and not the second bananas in those markets such as Espanyol, Atletico Madrid, etc. Same deal with kids who play baseball and dream about someday playing for the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers.
This draw, along with the financial flexibility to be able to offer market contracts to a few role players and two stars at or near their prime is what will bring talent to the Lakers. We lacked that financial flexibility in years past, lack it again this year, but things are looking good next year and thereafter.
LKK says
More bad news…
And from Mike Trudell of Lakers.com:
LAL doctors say Jordan Hill has a grade 1 hip flexor strain. He’s out Wed., and doubtful to play Fri. or Sun. but will rejoin the team.
The beat goes on!
bryan S. says
More bad news . . .
I consider that positive news with respect to keeping our pick.
Aaron says
Anonymous is 100 percent correct. But he left out the biggest reason… Money. Those factors allow for superstar players to make much more money off the playing field for Manchester United or the Lakers because those teams have so many more fans.
If you’re an actor you want to be in movies that play in the most movie theaters. The Lakers play in the most theaters around the nation and around the world.
When Kobe’s contract comes off the books for the first time the Lakers will have financial flexibility and either two or three top draft choices that has the rest of the NBA very un easy. A trio of stars won’t turn down playing together for the team with the most fans and most media attention in Los Angeles with two or three top draft choices. LBJ/Wade/Bosh couldn’t turn down Miami and they didn’t have any top draft picks on themat empty roster.
LKK says
Yeah bryan S….
I guess that’s one way to look at it. Just hate to see injury take its toll on the roster for what seems like forever.
Chearn says
Trust the pick is safe! Not having one player on the team that has started one entire season in the NBA ensures that. Further, the Lakers bench player starting lineup will most likely continue to mount season-ending injuries as none know the rigors of playing on the floor a full 82 games or even close to a season.
A team should never purposely lose games. In other words, do not tempt fate because karma is capable of twists and turns never before contemplated. And has a way to exact its desired justice.
Mid-Wilshire says
On a separate, but related, note, tonight Karl-Anthony Towns the young, 7-0, 250, 19-year old Freshman center at Kentucky had 15 pts. (6-11 shooting) including some nice mid-range jump shots, 13 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, and only one turnover in 31 minutes. If the lakers dont get Okafor with the #1 pick, all will not be lost.
Towns is not quite at Okafor’s level but he is perhaps the closest thing to a legitimate rim protector outside of the NBA. In earlier games he recorded 5 blocks against Boston U. (in 23 minutes), 6 blocks against Montana State (in 20 minutes), 5 against Missouri (in 21 minutes), and 7 (!) blocks against Vanderbilt (in only 18 minutes).
He’s scored in double figures 10 times and has rebounded in double figures 6 times despite only averaging 19 minutes per game in John Calipari’s platoon system. (Kentucky, remarkably, has three 7 -footers, all of whom receive playing time.)
Towns has had games of 19 pts., 9 rebounds, 2 assists, and 4 blocks against Eastern Kentucky, 13 pts, 11 rebounds against Texas Arlington, and 12 pts and 10 rebounds against Missouri, all in limited minutes before tonight’sbig game against Georgia.
He’s projected to go as high as #4 or 5 in the upcoming draft. The Lakers could do worse than selecting Karl-Anthony Towns.
rr says
When Kobe’s contract comes off the books for the first time the Lakers will have financial flexibility and either two or three top draft choices that has the rest of the NBA very un easy. A trio of stars won’t turn down playing together for the team with the most fans and most media attention in Los Angeles with two or three top draft choices.
—
I do not think it is going to be that easy, nor do I actually think it will go down this way. But I really, really hope that you are right.
bryan S. says
Utah Jazz are going to be really good, and even sooner than I imagined. Gobert is for real and will be one of the top centers in the game. Hayward will be an all-star. The roster is stacked with young guys who are good and getting better. They even have a good coach in former Laker assistant Quinn Snyder, who is coaching the hell out of the team. Sickening, isn’t it?
Trip says
bryan S – Utah has a lot of talent. Note, they have enough cap space to sign a max player this summer or next if they choose to. However, the cap space window will close in a few years as they will need to sign and keep their own young talent. Oh, and they also have 14 projected draft picks over the next four years.
So, yes it’s safe to say that Utah will be one of the top teams in the West in the near future.
R says
” … A trio of stars won’t turn down playing (for the Lakers) …”
Great — please name names ….
Robert says
R: Not sure of the future names being implied, however, I do know that more than a trio of names has in fact turned down playing for the Lakers (DH, Pau, LBJ, Melo).
Anon: ” If that was the case, the Clippers would have historically had an equal draw. ” Historically, the Lakers have had much better rosters and much better management teams. Neither is the case right now. The banners and the history helps, and will always be an advantage we have. We have all the benefits of being on LA, and we have the history. We have added little to that recently.
KenOak says
” A trio of stars won’t turn down playing together for the team with the most fans and most media attention in Los Angeles with two or three top draft choices.”
I’ve heard this line of reasoning before somewhere, but it was about LBJ and Melo. Then LBJ went home and Melo stayed in NYC.
J C says
Joshua
Thanks for the link about sports fan mania and team-identification.
Funny, interesting and…a bit frightening.
George says
Aaron: Your ‘vision’ is not an impossibility. However, based on where we are as an organization: poor product on the floor, lack of real assets and a mixed bag in the FO we will need a harmonic convergence of good luck to make it happen. My experience in life is that if you are basing everything on hope and luck then its likely the odds are not in your favor.
But sure its possible that we actually keep our pick this year and get a star player, that Randle comes back healthy and is a beast and that Clarkson continues to develop – these three forming the core you mentioned. And its also possible that KD turns his back on OKC and hometown DC (two really good teams) as well as not being swayed by Phil’s gravitas or any other of the half dozen teams with ‘near championship’ talent and cap space and signs on with our young core. And its also possible that two other unknown elite players turn down offers from these same talent rich teams with cap space to join KD on the Lakers.
I mean, its possible…
Jeff says
Trip and bryan S.: I agree with you that Utah will be a force and it won’t take too long for them to rise up the rankings in the West. You don’t hear a lot about them but I think they are farther along than many other teams that have been embracing the rebuild (namely Philly and Boston).
It will be interesting to see what they do with Kanter, as he’s up for an extension. As you mentioned they have cap space and I could see them making a play for Monroe as he played center his first two years in the league. I did not know about the draft picks. They have a very nice future in front of them.
Anonymous says
Robert – You seem to forget the early 90s when the Clippers had the better team while the Lakers had weak rosters and even weaker coaching (remember Magic as coach?). But fine, nothing will ever change you mind so you keep harping the same comments you always do. Meanwhile, how is Phil doing in NY? And your boy Fish? And how about your boy Byron? And lets not forget the bit of irony on how you blamed (rightfully) our prior coach for all of his flubs and yet, Byron is spared the wrath. Yeah, you go ahead and keep commenting. We already know what you are going to say before you even write it.
Craig W. says
Historically very few big men come into the NBA and dominate in their first year, particularly the back-to-the-basket, rim protector kind. The ‘modern’ stretch 4 types don’t have as much adjustment to make. The Gobert’s of the league are bound to frustrate their fanbase in their first year or two. Keep that in mind when lobbying for an inside big to be drafted.
rr says
You seem to forget the early 90s when the Clippers had the better team while the Lakers had weak rosters
—
You need to worry less about Robert and more about your knowledge base of recent Lakers history. As has been stated many times, the only big-time guy to come here as a flat-out FA was Shaq, who joined a 53-29 team put together by Jerry West, who was at the time probably the most respected executive in basketball.
So, get a handle, educate yourself a little, and try again. Or take it to a site where these kinds of comments get high-fives. You are out of your depth here, based on this post.
Ralph says
George: I mean, its possible…
___
Classic!
bryan S. says
Anonymous: Keep it up. Any counter-weight to the sirens of the apocalypse (rr & Robert) is a welcome break from their relentless, bleak narrative.
Darius Soriano says
It remains to be seen how successful the Lakers can be in free agency. Traditionally, most championship teams are built with at least one top level contributor being drafted by said team. Here is a quick look:
Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Ginobili
Heat: Wade
Mavs: Dirk
Lakers: Kobe
Celtics: Rondo (and Perkins, if you want to count him)
The list goes on and on with the Spurs, Lakers, and Bulls being other (repeat) examples from the early 2000’s and 90’s.
My point is, what the Lakers really need is two fold: 1). Keep this year’s draft pick AND nail it so that player can either be a cornerstone contributor or a tradable piece 2). Have Randle develop into a top flight contributor.
If Clarkson could also develop nicely, it would be a great addition, but that’s asking a lot. The fact is, the Lakers need to nail their lottery picks and use them as a foundation for building a winner. That will include, hopefully, not just bringing on another established player in FA who can also be a cornerstone player, but also several high performing role players to help round out the roster. They will also likely make a trade or two to help solidify the team and, again, hopefully, vault them into contention.
Stuart says
Darius: Good post. I think what your alluding to is that the Lakers have a very small margin for error in making it back to elite status in the near future. I think this is what many of us that are considered ‘sirens of the apocalypse’ are saying. We ‘sirens’ focus on the FO because for the most part all of our problems are self inflicted. While other teams have used the CBA to their advantage the Lakers have chosen not to.
I’ll quote George from above as he said it well: “However, based on where we are as an organization: poor product on the floor, lack of real assets and a mixed bag in the FO we will need a harmonic convergence of good luck to make it (turn around) happen. My experience in life is that if you are basing everything on hope and luck then its likely the odds are not in your favor.”
LKK says
@Darius..
So what you’re saying is that the Lakers have to be creative in their approach to rebuilding their team and explore all avenues to turning things around. Exactly!
At this point, there is no quick fix. Righting this ship is going to take hard work, inspired thinking and a bit of luck. The inspired thinking has to come from a front office that hadn’t done much lately to engender the confidence of an increasingly doubtful fanbase. The hard work has to come from them too. They have to nail draft picks, identify and sign solid role players and rebuild step by step.
Darius Soriano says
Stuart,
Yes the margin is thin. And I do believe the FO deserves blame for mishaps. I think, however, that I take more of a middle ground approach on this: all great runs end and most times end very badly. The Lakers are experiencing that now. This doesn’t make it any less upsetting, of course.
The Lakers have tried to extend their run as long as possible. After the veto, they tried to hold onto Pau as long as they could to extract value either on the court or via a trade. They made other trades to try and jam open the window for longer and those did not work out. Sometimes, things just don’t go your way even if, at the time, there was a strong case to be made that they would.
I think some fans might feel better about the FO if they were in the position the Celtics or 76ers or Wolves were, but the fact is those teams are also bad. They have a different strategy in place to try and no longer be bad, and we’ll see of those things work out for them.
I am not this huge backer of the concept of “Lakers’ Exceptionalism” where I believe things will go well simply because they are the Lakers. In fact, I think some here who argue against the FO daily are the real believers of that because they cite things like the Lakers being in the Finals so often or their track record of winning titles as if that history entitles them to do the same moving forward. It does not.
That said, I think Mitch Kupchak is pretty good at his job. I also think that Jim Buss has been part of a front office that has had a lot of success. I have written before about where I’ve been in disagreement with the front office and won’t rehash that here. The bottom line, however, is that winning at a high level is really hard. I feel fortunate the Lakers have done it more than most others, but don’t think for a second that because they have it is any easier than what it actually is.
LKK says
Due to a complex set of rules, Hassan Whiteside will be an unrestricted free agent during the coming offseason. The Lakers need to monitor his situation very carefully. This kid could be a game changer. A solid center is a good piece with which to begin the long climb back up the mountain. The Lakers have got to think outside the box.
Robert says
Anonymous: First of – it is comical to post something like this under Anon. At least put a picture of a GIF in or something (oh yea – u can’t do that here). Thank you for reminding me that I correctly predicted that Byron would get the job the day after MD was sent away. I also said he would be a caretaker during beak times, not a winner with this roster. As for all the coaches you mention: Fish, MD, and Byron Nobody could coach this roster or last year’s roster to anything successful. And if you hate Byron so much, you might take that up with the guy who hired him.
bryan s: When you are walking on scorched Earth, the narratives are bleak, and reflection as to how we got here and how we are going to do things differently is warranted. If we have the same people in the same slots, making the same type of decisions moving forward – that would not be good. If you think it was all bad luck and circumstance – then fine – that is your opinion. Also – feel free to check the archives for what rr ad I have said for the past couple of years, now that we know how things panned out.
Chearn says
Byron is not receiving a bye. Any person that views this year’s roster and compares it to last years is delusional, and here’s why:
• MDA had two training camps
• MDA had input on the second year’s roster
• Last year the Lakers had two previous NBA all-star centers in Pau and Kaman and a very serviceable center off the bench in Hill, all of whom MDA marginalized
• MDA had use of a healthy Nick Young
• Jodie Meeks is a better three-point shooter and player than any player on the Lakers other than Nick (can’t consider Clarkson sample size is not relevant)
• Had 1 ½ years use of Blake
The coaching results are similar; however, the rosters at the disposal of both coaches vary widely. I would wager that MDA’s roster was superior to Byron’s. Moreover, both coaches had a propensity to over-rely on Kobe. Most coaches have a tendency to count on an elite player that no one on the team can guard. The folly of both coaches was their overuse of said player with advanced years in the league.
Anonymous says
from their relentless, bleak narrative.
—
I am just keeping it real, dude. You might want to think about going that direction yourself instead of focusing on spin and smug condescension, as you did again in that post. Clarkson may be good enough to be a starter, and if so, that will help. Randle is an unknown; I hope you are right about him.
But the bottom line is that the Lakers have the worst roster situation in the conference by a pretty wide margin. You detailed Utah’s situation yourself in this thread; others have pointed out that Minnesota has Wiggins and some other guys that they can use or move. The Lakers just have the franchise name and some long-range hopes.
LKK says
Maybe a light at the end of the tunnel?
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-lakers-2015-nba-draft-20150203-story.html
Stuart says
Darius: I appreciate all you do in providing this forum for Lakers Fans. Its not surprising that there are many different perspectives – which reinforces why FBG is held in such high regard.
Trip says
Note: Whitehead is an unrestricted FA in the summer of 2016. He is under contract to Miami next year. If he continues to evolve and plays well next season (remember his record was spotty prior to joining Miami) then he would be in line for a big time contract.
Also note, Whitehead would be 27 the summer when he hits free agency. That’s an attractive age if he’s a budding star. Its not, if he wants top dollar and his play regresses to the mean.
LKK says
@Trip…
Thanks for the correction. I misread the article. Whiteside will indeed be unrestricted in 2016; not this coming offseason.
Chris J says
Traditionally, most championship teams are built with at least one top level contributor being drafted by said team. Here is a quick look:
Celtics: Rondo (and Perkins, if you want to count him)
—–
With respect, that Boston list is missing the lynchpin to your point about solid drafting — Paul Pierce, drafted at pick No. 10 by the Celtics in 1998.
gene says
Kobe wasn’t drafted by the Lakers…it was a trade ….
bryan S. says
I am just keeping it real dude.
“All hope is lost”–Lord Denethor, in Lord of the Rings. (Who then built his funeral pyre and lit it.)
No, “real” is acknowledging complexity, uncertainty, difficult challenges, and in the face of that, finding a way forward. That’s interesting and keeps readers engaged. (DS’ and Mid-W’s posts come to mind.) We are a successful species because we are wired to persevere against odds. That’s keeping it real.
Darius Soriano says
Gene,
Correct, though it was a trade on draft night and they controlled his rights from before he ever played a game in NBA. So, I’m counting it here.
Darius Soriano says
Chris J.
Of course! I can’t believe I left out Pierce. That leads me to my other point — a lot of times it is that foundational piece who ends up being that key player who either attracts the other talent in FA or serves as the guy who allows to keep a player who was traded for due to being that other teammate who can make the group elite.
R says
Part of the “hope” thing is hoping uber-talented FAs are young enough to be at the peak of their powers, yet old and/or knowledgeable enough to appreciate the Laker’s glorious (and receding) past, AND – I repeat AND – are willing to forego contracts designed by the CBA to encourage these same stars to stay on the team that drafted them.
Man, that’s a lot of hope …
R says
…. I think its an open question that gifted and presumably confident star athletes would find joining a team whose history they perhaps only dimly appreciate to be preferable to writing some history of their own …
I mean, do you think a talented Google engineer would necessarily be excited by the prospect of joining a company with a glorious past like … General Motors?
rr says
No, “real” is acknowledging complexity, uncertainty, difficult challenges.
—
Sure. That is why I point out that the Lakers have the worst roster situation in the Western Conference (difficult challenges) and that is why I have pointed out that Jim’s elite FA strategy is questionable (complexity, uncertainty).
As to the way forward, the hard part in NBA roster building is usually the execution, more than the conceptualization. Everybody knows that the Lakers need to nail this draft pick; the issue will be execution. That is true of several things going on with the Lakers.
The real question, then, is whether they should try for some FAs like Wesley Matthews and Goran Dragic, or if they should keep the powder dry and try to add two big FAs to Randle and two more lotto picks; or some combo thereof. Different people have different opinions on the issue. But all the options are difficult and uncertain, so saying that in and of itself is saying nothing at all.
bryan S. says
rr: Interested in your specific ideas on finding a way forward–thanks. (Good response.)
rr says
bryan s,
Will reply later. Want to acknowledge that to this point you and Aaron have been on the mark about Love/Wiggins and Clarkson.
Chearn says
Regarding Wiggins, the best thing in the world was for Wiggins a number one draft pick to be traded. I think that shook him to his core that explains why he played with lackluster after the trade. When reports surfaced disregarding him as the next Lebron and more in line with the next James Posey, it appears some of the lethargy and entitlement he played with in college dissipated. Because that’s about the precise time that he became more engaged and active. Wiggins even proclaimed that old Kobe (my words) was more problematic to guard than LeBron. In the next meeting between the two one expected LeBron to take his words to task, he did by scoring 38 points with his team posting a win. However, that was no blot on Wiggins as he scored 33 for the losing team…quite impressive.
Chearn says
Byron is not receiving a bye. Any person that views this year’s roster and compares it to last years is delusional, and here’s why:
• MDA had two training camps
• MDA had input on the second year’s roster
• Last year the Lakers had two previous NBA all-star centers in Pau and Kaman and a very serviceable center off the bench in Hill, all of whom MDA marginalized
• MDA had use of a healthy Nick Young
• Jodie Meeks is a better three-point shooter and player than any player on the Lakers other than Nick (can’t consider Clarkson sample size is not relevant)
• Had 1 ½ years use of Blake
The coaching results are similar; however, the rosters at the disposal of both coaches vary widely. I would wager that MDA’s roster was superior to Byron’s. Moreover, both coaches had a propensity to over-rely on Kobe. Most coaches have a tendency to count on an elite player that no one on the team can guard. The folly of both coaches was their overuse of said player with advanced years in the league.