After missing out on every free agent they targeted this summer, the Lakers are looking to add talent a different way. In sore need of a big man to man the pivot, Marc Stein is reporting the Lakers are in talks with the Pacers:
ESPN sources say that the Lakers and Pacers are actively discussing a trade where L.A. would take Roy Hibbert into salary-cap space
— Marc Stein (@TheSteinLine) July 4, 2015
This was a topic we discussed yesterday, so I won’t rehash a lot of that now.
For more background on Hibbert’s availability, though, he had a player option on his contract that he exercised shortly after draft night. That option will pay him a shade over $15 million this season, the final of his contract. Hibbert is available mostly because the Pacers drafted his successor (Myles Turner) with their lottery pick and would like to play faster than they have with Hibbert manning the middle.
For the Lakers, the fit would likely be a mixed bag. They too would like to play faster with their young athletes, and Hibbert doesn’t really fit that mold. However, Hibbert fills a major positional need, is a fine compliment to Randle defensively, and could even serve as a bit of a defensive mentor for Robert Upshaw should he end up sticking with the team beyond summer league.
For all these reasons, I’d support the Lakers making this type of move. Especially if they could nab another asset from the Pacers in the process of absorbing such a large contract and allowing the Pacers to dump a lot of money with, essentially, nothing likely going back in return. For a team like Indy who does not want to pay the tax and would like a manageable payroll, that is a not a minor point.
We’ll see if it is enough to get a deal done, however.
Oldtimer says
Good, at least there is activity going for the scare crow, Hibbert. Go for trifecta, if you fail in one you still have two. Bet on Javale McGee, Upshaw and Jordan Hill too. If you succeed on this strategy you are forgiven in failing on Plan A
Do it fast Mitch, we are now in the Internet, Tweeter age, forget the landline messaging system.
Shaun says
I support thos as well …still young at 28 … very large at 7’2 ..290lbs … and as he has worked with cap in the past this could possibly he a longer term home for him if he improves ….since we renounced right on hill are we still able to sign and trade him?
If not if we could keep hill as well id be happy … could play as a quick c as a backup to hibbert start at the 4 if randle gets hurt …
Hoping we can keep him as well
Robert says
Hibbert is a salary dump. Much like Jeremy Lin last year, if you take a salary dump, and you actually need the guy to fill a hole, it really puts your roster in perspective (a bad one). Further – if you take a dump without compensation (a pick), that means you have really been boxed into a corner from which negotiation is not possible. We need a pick with this.
Tim says
We need rebounding and shot block
ing .do this please!
tone says
Defense and rebounds!! Paint clogging!!
Tim says
He is the defender we lack. Today’s center need only to dunk and defend. Where is the risk here? His contract is temp. If he is a flop who cares?
minorthreatt says
With Hibbert, you hope you can win twice. Get an asset (pick or player — could we pry loose Solomon Hill?) to go along with him. Then hope he can be rehabbed enough in the first half to bring in another pick/asset at the deadline, if we can get lucky enough to find a (desperate enough) match. Think the Cavs last season.
Baylor Fan says
As long as the Lakers are not giving up any recently drafted players, and get a pick along with Hibbert, this may be okay. For whatever reason, Hibbert was all over the place last season with his game and that version of him would be a mess for the coaching staff. If Kareem has been able to help him focus and concentrate on his game, Hibbert could be a steal and a keeper after next season.
Calvin says
@Tank – I think Jordan Hill is just an average big. Plug in any average low-paid guy like Drew Gooden, Epke Udoh, Luis Scola, Mo Speights, Jason Smith, and give them the same opportunities, and they’ll put up the same numbers as Hill last year. Tarik Black would put up better numbers than J Hill given the same playing time and opportunities on offense.
KenOak says
I love the move. We have extra salary for the year…Hibbert fits a need and really isn’t that bad of a player when he’s motivated. Bring him in and take a 15 million dollar flyer. Seems like a no-brainer and if we can somehow squeeze something else out of the Pacers…
Maybe this was the back-up plan all along. I certainly hope so.
Lakafan says
@xOrtiz4x: Word is Lakers will be sending Ater Majok, their unsigned draft pick when they’re legally able to trade him in exchange for Hibbert.
Busboys4me says
Have we as Lakers fans become so clueless that we think an immobile, offensively challenged, dinosaur that didn’t fit a slow Indiana team is the right guy for us????? Indiana wanted desperately to get rid of this lumbering oaf and we take him off their hands willingly?!?! The freaking Knicks did better than us!!! The Knicks!!!
Mid-Wilshire says
Yes. Taking on Hibbert’s expiring contract would make sense. If Upshaw makes the team and shows some genuine development, then the Lakers could, if they wanted to, simply not re-sign Hibbert beyond this coming year.
But first, the Lakers must take an asset from Indiana, preferably a 1st-round draft pick as they did with the Jeremy Lin trade. If anything the Lakers could actually be in the driver’s seat on this deal since Indiana has been trying to unload Hibbert’s contract for a while.
So, I see 3 possible positives arising from a deal such as this:
1) the Lakers fill a positional need (they desperately need a center who can at least masquerade as a starter in the NBA);
2) they could, hopefully, get a draft pick from the Pacers; and
3) they could buy time for Robert Upshaw to develop, mature, and practice against someone who is 7-2 every day.
These could all be good things. However, I don’t see Hibbert as necessarily being in our long-range plans (anymore than Lin was).
If the Lakers can get a draft pick out of this, I say go for it.
Dom says
Taking Hibbert for a pick i support but why try to fill the roster with journey men vets who are playing for their next contract. Indy overpaid him now they need to dump his contract, the Lakers need to take on money for a season to use up cap space. Have the pacers pony up a future first rounder for him. Why do fans want a mediocre 25-40 team in the WC. All that will accomplish is losing the first round pick to Philly. Play your rooks and second year players let them baptize under fire. Teach them to be pros and let Kobe have his swansong. We are NOT going to be competitive next year even if we got LMA. Get young talent develop it, then you have some assets to trade or talent to attract FA’s down the road. This season is a wash. Let it go. And please stop looking for mediocre solutions to a problem that was a longtime in the making. We have no picks, no asset that we can afford to give away ie. randle clarkson russell, so lets sit back and watch the rooks learn. There is no short term fix for this. Getting rid of JB and Mitch wont create draft picks or talent.
Keno says
Like it. Go back and look at his numbers 3 years ago. From LA, word was did not like Indiana and was only playing 25 a game, if Scott and Kobe can’t motivate him no one can. I expect 15 and 10 from him and unlike Jordan he makes FT and can shoot more then dunks. With Russell and Clarkson penetrating he could be a pick and roll bonanza. Count me for a Harrah!
bh says
Of all the bigs left, Hibbert is likely the best option.
Advanced stats:
Hibbert
PER 15.5
ORPM -2.44
DRPM 2.43
RPM -0.01
WAR 2.73
Koufos
PER 14.2
ORPM -2.56
DRPM 3.30
RPM 0.74
WAR 2.56
Jordan Hill
PER
ORPM -2.95
DRPM -1.42
RPM -4.37
WAR -2.34 (dead last for centers)
Hibbert is still a beast when it comes to rim protection. According to SportVU defensive impact data, Hibbert allowed just 42.6% of opponent field goals at the rim, good for fourth-best in the league with a minimum 5.0 opponent field goal attempts (behind only Gobert, Ibaka, and Bogut). This obviously fills a role of great need for the current Lakers roster.
Offensively he didn’t thrive as the 1st/2nd option for a depleted Pacers team but then, it’s unlikely that he would be anywhere near the first option for this Lakers team. However, he has shown some evidence that he can space the floor, shooting 42% from the top of the key and 45.2% from the right wing in around 70 attempts from each spot last season. Overall he and Hill both shot 38.5% on 2-pointers outside the paint. Koufos has no floor spacing ability.
Hibbert has been much maligned for poor rebounding numbers, but he boxes out well to allow his teammates to grab rebounds and his record is a net positive for team rebounding while on the floor.
Add to that some other intangibles:
– He is in a contract year- he has incentive to play well and Lakers have no long term commitment
– The scuttlebutt has been that he has needed a change of scenery for a long time, for various reasons.
– Jeremy Lin scenario with possible leverage to acquire an asset to absorb his contract from Indiana.
– He has trained with KAJ
Obviously, he is not very mobile and pick-and-roll defense will be an issue. This is where it would’ve been nice to keep Ed Davis for some versatility depending on matchups. But that ship has obviously sailed. Regardless, Hibbert makes the most sense out of all the options right now. You can’t really be too picky at this stage of the game.
Fern says
Trade is a go i just read, for future picks and overseas interests, i believe he is hugely overrated but its a good salary dump. At least is a big body to put under the rim. All in all im ok with it.
Robert says
Fern/Ko: You two were not too happy yesterday. And now you are signing off on this with no details? You would take this with no pick? Can we at lest give them back Nick Y? Or are we simply taking Hibbert because we are nice guys and we owe them one for 2000?
Shaun says
I think indiana had enpugh interest from the clips in a 3 way trade that lakers had to offer just taking his salary …. cuts into out leftover space a lot though – we only have 4.3mil left because hibbert also had a trade kicker that will lose us another 2.3mil in space
Does anyone know of we can sign any of our guys on top of having this space or is tue only reason we have it because we renounced everyone …. if we could s&t hill to indiana at least it would let is fill out the roster …if we get a few veterans we can at least be scrappy
Gerald green would be fun and awesome
Fern says
What you want me to say Robert? Do we have a choice?It’s a straight up salary dump and a expiring contract and the Lakers didnt give up anything beside some picks, i think he is a overrated bum i said it before and said it again, but he should he better than that bust Biyombo that people here were for some reason raving about. He is tall, thats all i can say about Hibbert.Keno said a 15-10 guy? He has never rebounded more than 8 rebounds a game and no more than 11 points. Mind like puddin too. Why is people worriying about the damn cap space is an expiring contract for chrissakes!
Fern says
After this trade Jordan Hill is gone.
Fern says
Deal is still ironed out, cant be completed until july 9
Fern says
Yoy said it Robert, the FO boxed itself in a corner and this is what they could get. Indiana had all the cards here.
Warren Wee Lim says
2 words, great move considering. Okay, three words.
Fern says
It’s a shame, the Pacers took a 16 million dump all over the Lakers, all because they didnt secure the younger better center that they had in house already for 10 million less still pisses me off. Like Robert said they boxed themselves into a corner zero leverage. Not the best fit but could be useful around the trade deadline, thats his real purpose i hope.
Calvin says
Hibbert’s a big stiff on offense, with bad motor. But on defense, he has excellent rim-protection fundamentals and good understanding of the verticality rule to avoid fouls. He’s not a good pick and roll player because he’s slow. Should fit Byron’s deliberate half-court grind offense though. Kobe will love playing with Roy because Roy is ok not demanding touches.
Shaun says
Its kind of stupid that a team under the cap has a smaller exception than the mle … teams that use the cap in the supposed right way get punished in the FA market by being prudent
Except for maybe the knicks, now the pacers and pheonix no one else has any room to sign hill outsode of offering him the MLE
Except as a team under the cap if we take on hibberts contract .. we only have 4.7 mil in space .. less than the mle he can most likely get
Darius, can we ask larry coon about what our options are for filling out tue roster woth this trade …. can we use some space first and create a tpe with the trade, which guys can we resign (ellington) …. if anything i guess id be ok with hill leavinf if we need the space for upshaw … but we better still keep upshaw even with this trade …. tjat would give us 3 centers ..hibbert,upshaw,sacre (who should have been cut), 2 pfs – randle, black
I think we need a stretchy 4 which is why keeping hill would be good …. hibbert upshaw sacre and black all duplicate each others abilities ….im worried this will lead to us not signing upshaw and go a different direction because of team needs … which would be a mistake …. kings gave up on whiteside too early and now he broke out …. need to give the kid time to develop
Anonymous says
This is good news, people. Two years ago, if you told me the Lakers would trade nothing for Hibbert, I would have been pretty happy. Today, I am relieved they will have a legitimate starting center, flawed as he may be. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth–he’s still a solid rim protector, which the Lakers desperately need. Here’s to hoping it works out well for Roy in LA.
macster says
@Darius You’re on the money. Hopefully the FO has gotten the message.
😐
M~
bleedpurplegold says
I think jimy is trying to secure his job with this move…after all, jeannie seems to be serious with her promise to us fans to fire jimmy after 3 years with no playoffs. Secretly jimmy hopes he will be the player he once was 3 years ago and together with kobe an the young guys can lead us to the playoffs….
But i can get behind the move. if we keep upshaw, roy could teach him a thing or two on D. Furthermore, we get a desperately needed big body under the rim. However, if we give up any future assets such as draft picks or a young guy, even if it would be a black or nance, jeannie should fire jimmyboy and mitch right away and cancel the trade, not worth it for a 1 year loan when you are in rebuilding mode.
Sidenote: we could very well be the worst team in the nba next year if kobe goes down again(not hoping it happens). Sixers will drastically improve in a weak east adding oak and having more experience… knicks got considerably better this offseason, magic have 1 yr more experience and wolves get some guns back in rubio and pec as well as towns via draft. Cant see nobody worse than us. Lets face it, we have no bench yet and our starters are almost exclusively rooks/sophs at the moment. We could end up with less than 20wins this year, even if we could snag hibbert for nothing….not a bad thing when you look at the talent this upcoming draft….but still awfull to watch for us fans and the reputatio of the franchise we all love so dearly….
I dont want to sound too pessimistic as i am really thrilled to see all this young talent on the floor, but i cant see too many teams worse than us at the moment….
Robert says
I am with you Fern – wow this frustrating.
R: I need to amend my previous post. I did not even envision this chaos. And that is saying something.
Craig W. says
When you don’t have the free-agent, but do have the money, and you need the defense…what exactly is the problem with this trade?
If Upshaw works out and needs more time, I am sure Byron is going to give it to him, over Hibbert. Meanwhile he is good insurance and he doesn’t cost us anything next year, unless he earns it.
Aaron says
Great signing. We probably get a future pick and Hibburt is washed up and will help us lose while bein a great role model for Upshaw on and off the court.
dxmanners says
I have no problem with it. In defensive presence alone, he’s worth it. He doesn’t have to run and fill a lane on a fast break, not a problem. Remember Magic waiting for Kareem to post up after the fast break didn’t develop? If he gives Lakers 8-10 pts and 8-10 boards it’s fine.
dxmanners says
…although I certainly hope Lakers pick up another asset, even a 2nd rounder, for taking on 15 million.
JD says
Lakers are giving, not getting a pick in this trade. Most likely a heavily protected 2nd rounder. I too would have liked to get an asset out of this, but realistically beggars can’t be choosers. My hope is that Hibbert plays well as he is in a contract year himself and on that basis the Lakers will be able to trade him to teams in playoff contention at the deadline and then get something that helps them for the future (pick or player). Not much money left to make moves at this point. Question is would you have Kyle O’Quinn an unproven player (25 years old) at $4 million like the Knicks got or a 28 years old player making $15 million who isn’t a part of your future. Differences in perspective I suppose.
Gian says
Not much of a choice so i’m willing to give him a shot. Maybe he’ll be happier in LA and become more productive? LOL!
Chris J says
You don’t need a running center to run; Kareem couldn’t run in the late 80s but the Lakers were a great running team then anyway. Iverson didn’t suffer because he had Mutombo on his back line.
You need a center to guard the rim and rebound. Hibbert’s career rebounding hasn’t been stellar, but much of that had to do with Indiana’s defensive schemes.
The trade addresses a glaring need, won’t cost anything beside money the Lakers have to spend somewhere anyway, and a year from now if Hibbert doesn’t work out, he walks away with no long-term damage done.
We can whine all summer about this or that, but Jordan was never coming, nor was Aldridge. At this point in their respective careers, they’d have been foolish to make such a move. Hibbert is better than Hill and he addresses a need the Lakers had to address. It wasn’t that long ago this guy anchored a unit that was oh-so-close to beating Miami. A fresh start could be great for him.
The Lakers ‘ future is now inexorably linked to the development of the young core. Adding Hibbert should help with those young guy’s development, and hopefully make the Lakers more competitive and fun to watch this coming season.
To complain about money spent or not getting a pick back, I don’t agree. Indiana knew the Lakers were looking to get size and there was a limited market available; the Lakers were dealing from a position of need and the Pacers extracted what they should have under the circumstances. I like this move.
Chibi says
According to Sports VU, Hibbert is still an elite rim protector.
Robert says
When you have space you do something with it The least thing you can do is take a dump and then get a pick for it. If we actually give up a pick here it is beyond believable.
Including this link for rr as it confirms a long standing prediction that he made.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-plaschke-20150705-column.html#page=1
kareem says
He’s also very flippable to a team like the Clippers who now lack a legitimate center, and around the trade deadline, depending on their performance, might be looking to make a different direction trade. With minorthreatt on the value of this trade. This is reminiscent of Kwame Brown. A guy can hope, at least, right?
Craig W. says
kareem,
I hadn’t thought of flipping him to the Clippers. Of course they are in a very tight spot or they would have done this deal themselves. They would have to see a real need by the trading deadline and we would have to take salary back. Of course we would also want a draft pick or so.
Chibi says
A reason the lakers might need to postpone the Hibbert deal is if they are trying to sign-and-trade one of their UFAs like Hill or Lin. Otherwise they would have to renounce them to complete the Hibbert deal.
Ryan says
This article is absolutely hysterical.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-plaschke-20150705-column.html#page=1
DieTryin' says
Ditto Chris J.
Fills a hole, minimal downside. Hard to get too worked up about this either way though.
George Best says
I’d take one year of Hibbert at 15 mil over 3 years of Davis at 20 mil. This can be a .500 team and we will be more exciting to watch than the Clippers this year. Count on it.
We will be laying a foundation for next summer when we realistically have a chance at free agents but as long as taxes are being paid it will be harder for us to get players over the Texas teams. This needs to be addressed in the next CBA so teams in certain states don’t have an added financial advantage.
Chris J says
Plashke is a tool. His comment that next year’s Laker have “little chance of playing beyond April” because they missed out on Aldridge is utterly clueless. Had he signed on, the Lakers were still not likely to have made the playoffs next season.
Golden State, Memphis, L.A. Clippers, Houston, San Antonio and Oklahoma City are virtual locks barring significant injuries, even if the Spurs hadn’t added Aldridge. The Wolves should be much improved, Dallas will be in the mix, as will Portland, Utah and Phoenix. To suggest the Lakers would have been one free agent away from upending so many teams who are clearly better poised to win in 2015-16 is just foolishness.
Chris J says
For a better read, check out J.A. Adande’s column on ESPN.com. He sums it up much better than Plashke.
Slappy says
Robert:
“When you have space you do something with it The least thing you can do is take a dump and then get a pick for it. If we actually give up a pick here it is beyond believable.”
Absolutely, the beyond believable part. But note that some of the crew here are overjoyed that the team be .500. Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Keep the damn pick and ride it out. Might actually have some progress development wise and still wind up with a top 3 pick. No chance of that with Hibbert, as bad as he is. And he’s pretty much worthless. Dude’s 7’2″ and has yet to manage a 9 rebounds per game in a season. And his TS% is horrific: .510, .537, .507, .539, .489, .499, .510. Absolutely and utterly horrific. I’d gladly give up 2 blocks for 40 minutes of Tarik Black. He might actually have a future and in the meantime he’d scored more efficiently (TS% over .600) and rebound a whole lot better that Roy. Heaven help us. Even worse, or worst of all, the team already owes picks to others. Do they not understand that one of the downsides here is that they’ve already given away picks? And here I was praising not so long ago. Stupid me.
Nick says
Good deal if we acquire a draft pick from the Pacers, or another young asset.
Bad deal if we give up a future draft pick, or a young asset.
Simple as that.
Warren Wee Lim says
People complaining when we have no center. We get an all-star center for nothing albeit that was 2 years ago, for a 2ND ROUNDER, and its a bad deal?
You probably wanted the Pacers’ next 4 1st rounders added.
Keno says
That was best move since Scott planted that oil socked ping pong ball.
Patrick Lanigan says
On the court, Hibbert will give the Lakers a hell of a lot more than Lin did. Off the court, it’s unlikely this acquisition will net anything as good as Larry Nance Jr unless we can flip Hibbert at the deadline for another team’s 1st rounder (which feels unlikely).
wilt207 says
Getting Hibbert doesn’t warranty anything, remember what Howard did to Lakers after one year. The challenge is still there, can he play good consistently ?
Aaron says
Wow. Pretty bad trade. We should have gotten a second rounder not had to give up one. i don’t agree with this. But it’s obviously not the end of the world. A second round pick is almost worthless. You can buy them cheaply.
Anonymous says
I agree with Warren….No pleasing you guys…just be happy we got somebody.
Kbj says
I agree that we should get a pick along with Hibbert. Do not understand at all why Lakers had to give up a pick, even if it is a 2nd round pick.
Vasheed says
Mixed bag. All things considered the Lakers should be receiving assets not sending however small. They are at least getting a true Center instead of parading a PF as one.
Hibbert’s trade kicker does appear to be a bit of a snag. perhaps they throw Young or Kelly into the transaction to free up a bit more cap space.
Mid-Wilshire says
Giving up a 2nd round draft pick is symbolic. So, I wouldn’t sweat it.
Why don’t we wait and see what the final details of the trade are. Then we can react.
By and large, considering our (very considerable) needs, this is a good trade. If Upshaw pans out in a hurry, we can always flip Hibbert before the trade deadline in February. Or we can decline to renew Hibbert’s contact at the end of the year. Or we can renew it if we’re so inclined. There are several options.
That’s the way the game’s played. I like what the FO is doing on this deal. It makes sense on several different levels. But I still wish they hadn’t lost Ed Davis.
Now…who’s going to play the 3?
Craig W. says
Kobe, Young, A. Brown, defensively Nance Jr. & hope we sign Ellington
Hindi says
Who were the centers left on the free agent market? It’s way better than entering the season with Upshaw and Sacre as your only centers (Ed Davis would have been a PF, Black is 6’9).
And I much prefer this move rather than giving multi year deals to anyone like Tyson Chandler and Robin Lopez.
Hibbert comes off the books next season and is a good rim protector than anyone who is left in the FA. Plus contract year. He may just have needed a change. We don’t expect him to do much so he doesn’t have the pressure that he had in Indiana. He has the potential. Scenic change, contract year, Kobe and reduced demands can all be motivating factors. If he pans out, we keep him. If he doesn’t then its all good.
I’m glad we didn’t tie our cap space to any multi year overpriced deals. We have a presentable roster now. I’m sure Mitch would have tried his best at negotiating. Let’s see how the final terms look like.
Jamison says
Here’s a good article focused on Hibbert’s defensive impact:
http://stats.nba.com/featured/the_hibbert_effect_2013_12_11.html
Oldtimer says
This is a good move than no C at all. It goes like this:
1 Russell/Jabari brown
2 Clarkson/Young/Ellington
3 Kobe/Anthony brown
4 Randle/Kelly/Nance
5Hibbert/Upshaw/sacre
JD says
It’s not so much the asset as I’m sure it will be a heavily protected 2nd rounder. However, it is about the opportunity cost. The focus on the big time free-agents allowed some gettable players who might have value with the team going forward slip away. Guys who got reasonable deals like Brandan Wright, Marco Bellinelli, Jared Dudly, Kyle O’Quinn who the Lakers didn’t even go after due to the pursuit of the of the sexier names and now $15 mil for Hibbert ($17.5 mil with the trade kicker) and theres about $5 mil to round out the roster when there’s not a whole lot left, that’s my issue. Now if they are able to use Hill and Lin in sign and trades then I’ll sing a different tune, but Hibbert realistically has no future with this team going forward and my issues is again no consensus in vision.
Baylor Fan says
Given that Hibbert’s play was very uneven last year and that Bird asked him not to exercise his option, I am hoping that the Lakers know something they are not sharing. In addition, the trade kicker reduces the amount of money the Lakers have in cap space by 2.5 million dollars. It would be ironic if this ends up meaning they cannot keep Upshaw if he does show promise in summer league play.
J C says
All I can say is, this better NOT cost us Upshaw in terms of salary cap or costs or minutes.
If another team offers Upshaw a contract we can’t match I’m gonna freak out.
Slappy says
“People complaining when we have no center. ”
Wins and losses mean absolutely nothing this season. So there’s no point in Hibbert. He’s only going to be eating up minutes that might be spent developing Upshaw.
And believe it or not, like everyone else, his defense is subject to circumstance, meaning, he was a lot better on defense when he had Paul George. And Hill and Stephenson. He’s also not quite so effective when the other team has a big who drags him out of the lane. Also helps that he was in a conference with lesser bigs (and was also in the weakest division in that weaker conference). Oh, and Goran Dragic says that he’s the easiest big to score on (Howard the hardest) as you can lean into him and either shoot over him or draw the foul (Goran happens to be one of those who can fudge around with the verticality rule). Here:
B/R: Goran, who’s the hardest and easiest player to finish over in the NBA?
Goran Dragic: Dwight Howard is the hardest because he’s so strong and athletic. Roy Hibbert is the easiest for me. Everyone says he’s a great defender, but he doesn’t jump very high. You just need to lean into him and you can finish over him, or get the foul.
The foul is the one reason why Hibbert hasn’t spent much time in the league doing 30 MPG or more.
Must be true for Dragic, what with his 17.1 PPG and 55.6% against the Pacers, which is the highest for him against any and all teams in the NBA. Don’t show this to the rest of the league unless you, Roy, and the Lakers want trouble:
http://giant.gfycat.com/LividUnnaturalDoe.gif
See, he doesn’t jump high. And you can use the off hand to keep him away. Works for Goran.
Same here as well:
http://giant.gfycat.com/SpanishAfraidDiscus.gif
And note his one known defect. He is slow afoot. Why Larry Bird doesn’t want him around, though mostly for offensive purposes. Now note the other thing, note how no one channeled our man right into Hibbert. They were much better at that when they had George, Hill, and Stephenson. Like in hockey, the goalie looks a lot better when the defense is able to steer the puck handler towards the boards, thereby cutting down the shooting angle. In bball that is right into the help defender. Now that he’s gone from Indy, we’ll find out how much was the system and how much was him, in part.
And here’s one more into the body:
http://giant.gfycat.com/OptimisticSoggyGartersnake.gif
And note one more item, note the slowness mandating that he has to retreat to the basket and then try and defend from there, lest he simply be run by and/or around. Even though not the old Dwight, the existing Dwight still would have challenged him farther out. See if you can’t get him to pull up there. Beats a layup.
None of this is to say that Roy stinks as a defender, as that is simply not true, but he does have weaknesses that can be exploited, like everyone else. Goran is smart enough to know that even with the verticality rule, so long as both of you are in motion, far more often than not, you can initiate the contact and so create the space, and then get your shot off. And helps that Hibbert isn’t exactly a jumper/leaper.
And Shaq, by the way, had the best of both worlds. Not so great to say as a Lakers fan, but given his mass, I always thought it a bit unfair to allow him to initiate contact on the drive, as that often meant the defender being sent into the next county over. And on the other side, Shaq was so massive that he was in a very real sense the immovable object, and when he wasn’t happy with you, he’d put you down if you tried that lean into him move. And you’d not only get planted but perhaps the o foul as well.
rr says
With the trade kicker, Hibbert will be paid over 17M this year. So, supposedly the FO is looking for some ways to help with the cap hit.
I want to see what the conditions on the pick are. IMO the Lakers did this for two reasons:
1. Hibbert does only one thing really well–but it is rim protection. In terms of the Lakers fielding a functional team, that is the biggest need. By “functional” I mean “not historically bad.”
2. I think this was also done to make Kobe feel better. Hibbert has played in 2 ASGs and IIRC was on the scrimmage team that Team USA practiced against in 2012. He is a veteran player–will be 29 in December. So, Kobe will see Hibbert as being “legit” in a way that guys like Sacre and Black aren’t.
Also, while saying hello to Russell and Randle and good-bye to Kobe will be reasons to turn on the TV, the Lakers are almost certainly going to be one of the worst teams in the league next year and will probably be unanimous picks to finish last in the West. And, given Hibbert’s fit and the fact that they are apparently sending a pick along, I do not think that this can spun as a Stealth Tank move.
As to the Clippers, Koufos is off the market, having signed in Sacto. They will probably have to bring in JaVale McGee.
Fern says
@Slappy, if this team finish with a 500 record is going to be a massive improvement and at least i would be doing flips of happiness, that is 20 win improvement, unless you wanted the Lakers to somehow win 65 games, not even Lebron James, not even MJ could turn this team around like that. A 500 record would be a great leapt fwd put us within striking distance of a playoff spot and would give us something to sell next summer. If Russell and Randle are what we think they are we should win mire than 21 games. we can forget about playoffs next season methinks but we should see improvement.
KaL says
How about bringing andre blatche as backup?
bleedpurplegold says
@kal:
blatche?!? Really?!? I’d rather take a chance on upshaw, as we wont go anywhere this season anyway…….
@rr:
Hope clipperd make that mistake of signing javale…first, they wont go far with him at center. Secound, he is going to poison the locker room like he did everywhere he went. Means clippers will mess up everything they have established and we will be the team to watch in la, even with a horrible season in front of us….we have so many athletic, young and exiting players that our brand of ball is a must watch while those half court sets and a 6-7th seed wont sell clippers-tickets anymore 🙂
Anonymous says
We were able to get a pick along with Lin because the Rockets were trying to sign Bosh. The Pacers are in a different situation.
Oldtimer says
Roy H will be our Center in the crossroad in a Laker era. Kobe is departing while young ones are coming. Lakers can’t be choosy with the opportunities on hand. I hope they could sign Hill as backup with 3 year contract backloaded. There is still a hole on 3 Nick should play two positions than retain image swaggy happy go lucky dude. There is writing on the wall that he is not wanted in the league because of his downside, this could be his last contract.
Lakers were reserving the cap space for a Center and it took them long to figure it out. Getting Hibbert was not an option but just a break when Pacers change their roster which led to trading of their former star. Hopefully the Cap can so mentor Roy and other C playing with the lakers.
Having said that, this does not absolve the Buss kids, time to relinquish their posts and give to a professional management team while Mitch and Byron retain their positions till it expire. Like Kobe’s exit and Russell/Clarkson/Randle entrance, time for Buss to change in the Changing Times.
Craig W. says
Jamison,
Thanks for the link. It really gives us a good feel for what we are getting. Not only are we getting rim protection, but a teacher for Robert Upshaw – still optimistic – and a backbone structure from which Byron can teach defense to this team.
Jeff says
The concern with Hibbert, which others have noted, is that he basically uses all of our cap space. After investing last year’s cap room in zero players that will be long term assets/pieces, the hope was that we’d gather a few such assets this summer. But Hibbert appears to be another one year rental. So that would be two summers in a row that we had 20+ to spend, and basically no long term assets to show for it. And even with Hibbert, who brings critically needed defense, I still don’t see another team in the west that’s going to be worse than us. And league wide, maybe only Philly. Frustrating.
Snoopy2006 says
Beggars can’t be choosers. This is a fine move. I would have obviously preferred to pick up an asset since the Pacers have been desperately trying to get rid of him, but given how free agency played out for us, Bird likely sensed a bit of desperation on our part and that took away some of our leverage.
The point now is asset collection. It would be foolish at this point to assume next year’s free agency will go any differently, unless Russell and Randle make enormous impacts. We need to improve the team via trades, better scouting of undrafted players/D-Leaguers, and build an infrastructure that appeals to free agents before we’ll get serious consideration. Right now we’re only convenient leverage for agents.
As someone mentioned above, Hibbert could be flipped for assets before the trade deadline to a team like the Clippers. If he plays well with a change of scenery suitors will emerge. Reclamation projects aren’t a bad option considering where we’re at right now.
I would have also preferred to lock up some mid-tier free agents to 3-4 year deals. Once the cap skyrockets, those deals will look like bargains, and those players would have increasing value on the trade market. We need something to offer in trades beyond our young players and draft picks.
O’Quinn would have been a nice pickup. That contract would have been easily tradeable. We need assets wherever we can get them.
Mid-Wilshire says
Robin Lopez signs for 4 years and $54 Million. Kosta Koufos signs for 4 years and $33 Million. Those are very onerous contracts. The Knicks and Sac are strapped to these mediocre centers for another 3-4 years.
Meanwhile, the Lakers will be paying $15-17 Million to Roy Hibbert for only one year. This will be, in effect, an extended audition. If he works out, fine. They keep him. If he doesn’t, fine. They cut him loose. Meanwhile, he helps develop Upshaw.
The Lakers’ situation is much better.
tankyou says
@Mid-Wilshire, Robin Lopez is not “mediocre” by any means, he’s a really good defensive center. Sure he’s not a scorer, but who cares, the Lakers are’nt being built to have a center that needs touches. That contract he got was plenty fair in this climate, and post-cap raise it will look really nice. What centers are out there that can play defense? Not many, the ones that do are locked up at this point.
Lakers situation is definitely not “better” than the Knicks, the knicks have a better team at this point, and could start to garner some interest from a good player next year. We are only “better” in the purely hypothetical sense. Unproven Randle and Russel, and to a lesser degree Clarkson need to turn into above average players and one of them (Randle) needs to become a star caliber player in the next couple years. Otherwise, its back to the drawing board again. Realistically speaking Griffin and KD aren’t coming here, I wish people would quit talking about FA superstars as our “plan”. We aren’t winning anything with cap space–except Roy freaking Hibbert, yipee. Mind you I’m glad we got Hibbert for 1 year purely so our defense doesn’t reek so bad that we break every record in the books next season for lousy defense.
Craig W. says
I think they feel $8M-$12M will be the cost of doing business in the world of centers, going forward. Perhaps they are correct. I am curious what the next CBA will bring – the players are saving up now.
Todd says
Not a fan of the Hibbert trade. It smacks of desperation and confusion which are the bywords of the Jim Buss FO. Hibbert’s stats are similar to both Ed Davis and Jordan Hill who would have cost less than half of his salary. He is slow and I think his defensive reputation is offset by his minutes on the court (he averages approx 28 min/ game). Hibbert does not move the needle win wise as we are looking at another 50+ loss season.
Jim is obsessed with the home run fix – elite FAs or bust. The focus on Aldridge was so telling – a FA that was older and who had peaked performance wise was prioritized over younger players who were likely to improve over a contract (Monroe) or at least maintain their production (Jordan).
Rolling cap space forward would be a great idea if the Lakers were quickly gelling as a team, had a solid coach in place, a FO that was respected and potential FAs that had logical ties to LA or the Lakers. Unfortunately, we have none of those going for us.
This recent FA fiasco has made me truly believe that the Lakers will be irrelevant until Jim is gone. By doing nothing this summer he has sealed his fate. He has two years left on his promise and based on our current trajectory we will be lucky to sniff the playoffs.
JamesD says
I am loving this trade. Seriously which other center did we have a chance with? DJ and LA both have Texas ties. DJ wanted to be more of the offensive focus which may be fine for the regular season but come playoffs it will be hack a Jordan all the time. I was never excited about Aldridge. For one thing he is a PF not a center and does not provide much defense. Robin Lopez and Koufos just got wildly overpaid. Greg Monroe would have been worth fighting for but I sense he liked the fit with Milwaukee. I too am wondering why the Marc Gasol deal is not done and would have done back flips if the Lakers had somehow convinced him to come. He is not going to win a championship with Memphis and the fact his brother won two here might have persuaded him. I was surprised when Upshaw did not get drafted because I thought he was a possibility at 27 or 34 for the Lakers. I did not know about the health scare and am glad that is not an issue going forward. He could turn out to be a real steal. I can’t wait to see the Summer League team play. My only other comment is that these last 5 days have really brought out the Laker haters in the media. A lot of them taking delight in the situation and making fun of the Lakers. That might be a major motivating factor with this group of players. The most absurd comment came from Bruce Bowen who said he thought Aldridge picked the Spurs because of the 5 championships. Gee, Bruce, what other team also won 5 championships during that same time span and has 16 total?
Mid-Wilshire says
tank you,
I usually don’t respond directly to other commenters. But in this case I’ll make an exception.
I beg to differ. Robin Lopez IS a mediocre center (with a very healthy bank roll). So is Kosta Koufos. Although Lopez is a solid defender (not great but solid), he is woeful on the offensive end and seems to offer very little in terms of intangibles such as leadership.
I may be a bit older than you. I actually saw Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell go head-to-head a couple of times. So my frame of reference may be different than yours. That means I have seen the following truly great (or at least very good) centers: Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Walton (in his prime), Dave Cowens, Willis Reed, Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquile O’Neal, and others. By comparison, I can assure you that Robin Lopez is mediocre.
Furthermore, when I stated that the Lakers situation is “better,” I was not comparing their overall state of affairs to the entire NBA, let alone the NY Knicks. I was simply stating that it is better (this should be intuitively obvious) to have more flexibility than less. The Knicks who will be signing Robin Lopez to a 4-year contract and Sacramento who will be signing Koufos to a 4-year contract have less flexibility than the Lakers have with their forthcoming deal with Roy Hibbert (only a one-year contract). If Lopez or Koufos end up disappointing, what flexibility do the Knicks and Kings have? Very little. They must simply wait for those contracts to run out (or trade those players if they can find a buyer).
If Hibbert ends up stinking up the place, what can the Lakers do? Let him walk after one year. They won’t be tied down. It’s that simple. In that sense, certainly (and in a few other regards), I think it’s a good trade. At the very least, it makes sense. The Lakers retain flexibility. And in this day and age, that’s crucial. It’s also smart.
Lkr_lov says
I think this is the current signed Laker roster for 2015 to date.
Guards: Kobe, Clarkson, Russell, J Brown
SF: Kobe, Young, A Brown, Nance
PF: Black, Kelly, Nance, Randle
Centers: Sacre, Black, Hibbert
I think we need a starting SF. Until then I think this will be the starting 5.
Hibert
Randle
Kobe
Russell
Clarkson
Craig W. says
Todd,
Take a look at Jamison’s link above. Then think about team basketball. Stats are important, but they are far from definitive relating playing in a team concept – think the hockey assist. I believed the Lakers needed to get better defensively. DJ certainly was that help, not as much LWA and Monroe.
Do I think the front office went out trophy hunting? Absolutely! Do I think it hurt the Laker brand? Yes. Do I support the trade for Hibbert for at least one year? Positively!
Slow up the court, yes, but able to defend well in the half-court. That is certainly a plus in my book. As Warren said, there is simply no pleasing some of you on this site. Give the venomous hate a rest and let’s talk basketball.
Craig W. says
Here is a link to an after-season view of Hibbert by Larry Bird and an analysis of his comments. http://www.indycornrows.com/2015/4/21/8461409/fact-checking-claims-about-roy-hibberts-season
Altemawa says
I’ll be happy if this is a done deal, without us giving any 1st rounders… we should be receiving wit this kind of trade, but it is ok if we will not get any.
Hibbert will give us the defensive presence we need, and will help us with more than we expected, that is if he’s healthy.
bluehill says
A lot of good points made. Slappy, your breakdown of Hibbert is what I feared, but I agree with Snoopy, we can’t be choosy. Todd, let’s hope this backlash among fans leads to some self reflection between Jim and Jeanie as to what the organization needs. I doubt they put aside their personal differences but hope that are willing to make investments to address the weaknesses in our pitch to future FAs.
smokedaddy says
A few points.
1) Yes, this is a very good move given the circumstances. Hibbert’s rim protection is stellar. My guess is that given the defensive deficiencies of our backcourt, he’ll get plenty of chances to put this on display. Byron’s job will be to get players like Randle and Nance to cover for Hibbert when he needs to pick up the driver. We’ll see. I have read where Hibbert is working on his mobility. I’d still have preferred paying Chandler or Lopez 12m/yr over 4 years than being obligated to Hibbert for 17m for 1 year, but so be it. The real failure, which is a real slap to all our faces as everyone here sems to realize, is
2) Letting Ed Davis go. I mean what does it take for the Buss family to realize that yes, their s**t really does stink. And then to come out and say the team made every effort is just an insult to any fan with half a brain. Like Darius, to me this was the real failure and eye opener. I mean to think they held off on making even the bare bones contract paid by Portland based on thinking there was even a 10% shot at signing Aldridge or Jordan just boggles the mind. The Busses have been exposed here, including Jeannie and its going to get ugly.
3) Not even talking with Harris!? Good lord.
4) For the commenters here- Yes, its worth taking a chance on Upshaw for the summer league to see how he might be progressing vs any of the deamons he’s facing. But puhleez, even if the kid were to become 100% clean and responsible, a big IF, his basketball development has still got a LONG ways to go to play even rudimentary offense. Yes, he’s got good lateral mobility underneath the basket on D and can protect the rim. But everywhere else he’s got huge holes. He’s got no post up game and his shot is about as horrible I’ve ever seen. I don’t see him guarding the Pick and Roll or playing post D any time soon either. Sure, lets see him play, give him some coaching and heavy addiction counseling/monitoring, but there is no way he makes the team above even Sacre this year. Probably even next. Stop projecting on the kid and give him a chance to take things sequentially in D league.
smokedaddy says
All that above just said, I’m actually interested to see if Byron and his staff can use the talents of Hibbert and emphasize and teach and motivate the young guys to actually play some individual and team D in concert with Hibbert. Namely Russell, Clarkson and Randle. I haven’t seen much analysis of Randle’s D in his year at Kentucky other than see some analysts say its not his strong point. If Swaggy and Kelly are demoted in favor of Nance & Brown then we might be halfway decent in this regard if players actually buy in.
Joe Houston says
Aaron we didn’t get a draft pick because Indiana had other suitors for Hibbert. I like this trade because it preserves our Cap Space for next season and it allows for 2 types of offensive approaches; slow to accommodate for Kobe and Hibbert and fast when the young legs get in the game.
rr says
I just don’t understand why we didn’t get a draft pick with him. Weird.
—
Because they are not stealth tanking. You are deluding yourself about the FO because you can’t accept where the team is. It’s the same reason you were silly enough to buy into your friend’s inside info about LeBron James coming here. The Lakers FO wanted Hibbert; he is not part of a stealth tank plan to lose games and keep the young bodies healthy.
Robert says
We are desperate, we have no big men, we are below the min salary, and the only available players are sought by others. We therefore need to give a pick up even though this is a dump, and we are trying to keep picks and get younger. So given all of that, should we make this move? – maybe – but that is not the point, Rather – how did we get here – again? We are not supposed to paint ourselves into a corner where ugly trades are the only way out.
Shaun says
Josh smith might go to sacremento ….. we need to see this happen …. what a spectacle this team would be ….. rondo,gay,cousins , j smooth, trilly stein ….. must watch tv
Slappy says
Fern: We don’t need a .500 record. Would be nice if it happened, but that ought not be the goal. Instead, do anything and everything to make Brown (both of them), Black, Clarkson, Nance, Randle, Russell and Upshaw the best they can be, individually and as a team. If that means they win games, fine. If that means they lose games, fine. The end here is not how they did over the whole season. The end here is instead, what do they look like, individually and as a team, over the last 20 games of the season. That’s what you sell. The end product and not the overall. Aaron made the comment on the TWolves and Wiggins and Lavine. Lavine was atrocious for the entire first half of the season. Looked a whole lot better over the last quarter. That’s the important part. The last quarter. Is the difference between a vet team and a young/rookie team.
And they can’t worry about Kobe. Sorry to say that, but they just can’t. And if he goes for the 20-25 shots a game trip, then he probably should be benched until he understands that that isn’t what the team needs right now, even if it helps them win. And that because he’s not the future of this team, the young pups are. It’s their time. And right now they need to learn the league, themselves, and each other. That takes precedence over winning or losing. Again, if they win, fine, and if they lose, fine. So long as they are getting better individually and as a team.
Again, all that matters is not the record over 82, but the current state of the team when the curtain comes down after game 82. That’s all matters. Everything should be designed to make the state of the team, not their record, the state of the team the best it can be when game 82 ends. That’s what it means to have a young team on the rebuild.
And you also give all the minutes you can to Upshaw over Hibbert, and to all the young pups, for one other reason. They might be busts. Better to find that out in year 1 than in year 3. So to your relief, and mine, no more time than necessary is wasted, in every sense and respect. In this precise sense, this season is both development and evaluation time.
Everyone has to stop thinking about this season’s won-loss record. And if you can’t get into seeing these young pups grow, then there’s something wrong with you as a fan of the team. And here the “you” isn’t personal to you, but is instead generic.
Next:
4) For the commenters here- Yes, its worth taking a chance on Upshaw for the summer league to see how he might be progressing vs any of the deamons he’s facing. But puhleez, even if the kid were to become 100% clean and responsible, a big IF, his basketball development has still got a LONG ways to go to play even rudimentary offense.
Rudimentary offense? Can you say, Roy Hibbert? And for the “deamon’s he’s facing”, Christ, lad, if he was all that whacked out he wouldn’t have performed as he did as UW. Dude was apparently so drugged out at UW that he lead the NCAA in every defensive category and also rebounding. If they didn’t have to pee in the cup to keep the league’s image squeaky clean, he’d be fine as a basketball player. In other words, your comment simply amazes me. Roy Hibbert has no offense game to speak of. Is horrific on that end. He also svcks at rebounding. His devotees on that SB Nation Pacers site blame it all on having to box out and being the soul the offensive player is channeled into. Of course, that has certainly meant that Dwight Howards gets 6 boards a game as well. He’s slower than molasses and can’t jump and so he gets less rebounds than he should. That simple. Upshaw is already a better rebounder than him. Just based on the ability to jump and move around the lane. Oh, and the will to want to the ball. And you give the minutes to Upshaw and not Hibbert since this team is an also ran this season. No point in chasing a few extra wins at the cost of development and evaluation.
Tobias Harris is a middling player. Do you do the 5 x 5 fantasy thing. Once you get the R and RBI out of the way, you’re going to find that he isn’t much. Subpar defender, average rebounder, and 123rd in the league in TS%. So, no, unless you’re the Magic, or a middling team like the Magic, he doesn’t get that contract. The good news is that there are plenty of teams like the Magic, so they’ll continue with mediocrity by thinking that Tobias Harris is somehow to be a solution.
Ed Davis. Tarik Black. And Black comes for a million and not 7 mil per. It was an easy call to take make. Some other soul said that Ed was “foundational”. So “foundational” that based on minutes played per game, some other guy had to play but a mere two minutes less per game. So the other guy is merely two minutes less foundational. Let the gutted Blazers pick up the tab for mediocrity (seeing as how they’ve lost 4 of their 5 starters). The other good news is that they got rr’s man Vonleh in that trade for Batum. So I’ll be sure to give it to rr every time this season when Randle abuses Vonleh. Promises to be roundly entertaining. Lastly, for the height of humor, Hibbert and mobility. Read the SB Nation Pacer’s site:
Over under at 300
The number of times Roy falls down next season.
by Defensewinschampionchips on Jul 4, 2015 | 9:49 PM
Forget the mobility, lad, just hope that the top heavy Hibbert can stay upright and not capsize in rough seas.
George says
Hibbert is this year’s Boozer only this time we had to pay full price.
It’s just a treading water move. We botched free agency and an opportunity to improve with another foundational piece. All that was left was Hibbert or Sacre. Shame on the FO for painting themselves into a corner.
I have no skin in the game but those that support our FO – how many losing seasons are you willing to stand before you realize a change is needed?
Rubenowski says
I like Mid’s positivity. Please post more. I like that Hibbert will be able to mentor Upshaw. I really wouldn’t be surprised if Upshaw starts by the end of the year, assuming we sign him.
Can’t wait for summer league.
harold says
looks like the team will really start off with a blank slate once Kobe is done.
Fern says
I never said they would be a 500 team i said that that would be a huge improvemet and in they end with that record i be doing back flips, i dont buy that “how the team end” junk what matters is the final record, yeah you finish say 12-8 the final 20 games but end 25-57, what has more meaning? What matter the most?bThey need to sell improvement because the last 20 games of the season some teams be that they are nice and confy in their playoff spot or are so out of the playoffs that they dont give a crap, a better barometer is after the ASG, 20 games wont mean a lot. And an atrocious record has a lot to do with the sell, not 20 games. The Lakers need to look like they are in the up to be atractive again. That means more than 30 wins. Are we good enough for 30 wins? I have no clue, we will see
Mansa says
After being furious over the Lakers inability to come to terms with the type of team that they are as Darius so eloquently explained in previous posts, I am actually happy that they were forced into trading for Hibbert.
As much as I like LMA, he was not a good fit for the Lakers and it bothered me to no end that the Front Office did not learn from the past couple of summers and still went for the same old tired plan.
For all his faults, Hibbert is an upgrade for a team that had no rim protection whatsoever. It also gives us a much needed veteran to help bring along these young guys. The west is crazy, and I’m not sure what to expect from the Lakers, but they need to try to at least compete. If Kobe wasn’t on the team, I really wouldn’t trip off a poor team that I could see was improving, but with Kobe there, I can’t stand to see him really playing for nothing. If we can sign a decent wing, I think we can at least keep our heads above water. Gerald Green isn’t great by any stretch of the imagination, however, he is a great athlete with the ability to score and defend if focused. I’m praying that Nick Young is somehow included in the finalized Hibbert trade. Everyone who was involved in that ridiculous end of game celebration towards the end of the season should be banished.
If Kobe is remotely healthy, and that is a big IF, and the young guys earn his trust, he can really show some great leadership and lead this team to more wins than anyone would’ve thought. Playoffs is probably out, but not impossible with a determined Mamba playing an all around game.
JD says
Lou Williams come on down!!! Saving face here, it will be interesting to see the terms.
Adrian Wojnarowski ?@WojYahooNBA 31s31 seconds ago
Free agent guard Lou Williams has agreed to a deal with the Lakers, league source tells Yahoo.
3 year $21 million
15.5 ppg in 25 mins last year, worth a shot as well I suppose.
Craig W. says
IMO, what Slappy means is…
When you have almost all rookies and 2nd yr players nobody knows where either themselves or anyone else is supposed to be on the court. That, along with the NBA game, travel, number of games/wk all has to be learned, in addition to basic basketball teamwork. By the last 25 games of the season many habits have now been learned and the players can concentrate better on what they are supposed to be doing on the court.
This is the reason we should be measuring our players during the last part of the season, not the first – win or lose.
Mansa says
Looks like we grabbed Lou Williams.
Aaron says
rr,
Funny you think you’re smarter than the FO. I’m not the one disagreeing with the professionals. I’m not the one disagreeing with a FO who got us the last 2 to 5 championships depending on how you look at it. Hibbert is a bad NBA player who was kicked out of a team tying to win. He helps you lose games not win them. But maybe you just haven’t seen Hibbert play in a while.
Now I don always agree with the FO. I didn’t agree with the Young deal and I don’t agree with this Lou Williams deal.
Fern says
Not a bad adquisition at all. Good price . And the kind of player we should had been hunting for this summer from the beginning. The reigning six man of the year, nice bench boost!
rr says
Slappy,
Anthony Davis just re-upped for four years with a small-market team that is up against the cap and has no second star. But if you look a little closer, you will see that Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon’s deals are up, so with that, plus the new cap space, NO will probably have enough money to chase one max guy. Jrue Holiday will be an expiring, so they can probably find a taker. Three guesses who that max guy will be. Will they get him? Probably not. But they will be recruiting him with Anthony Davis in tow.
DeAndre Jordan just joined a team that will be starting him alongside Parsons, Nowitzki, Wesley Matthews, and probably Jeremy Lin. He left a team anchored by two All-Stars to do that. Why?A lot of reasons, but one of them is that Dallas will probably be able to chase one max guy as well. Cuban and Nelson are innovative and proactive. In fact, they probably told Jordan who that guy will be.
So, the problem with your and Aaron’s theory is not that it can’t work. It could. As DS points out above, the Lakers may have better luck big game hunting when they go after two guys at once. But at the same time, as Robert has pointed out, almost everybody will have cap space over the next couple of years, so there may be diminishing returns to having huge amounts of it. We will see. But the bottom line is that what Jordan and Davis just did shows the holes in your position. Aaron’s initial reaction to the Davis re-up was telling. I am guessing that you don’t have what it takes to own that, so watching you try to spin it promises to be roundly entertaining.
As to the Randle/Vonleh thing, it is gratifying that you pay such careful attention to my posts. I appreciate it. And, like I have said, I do not consider myself to be a YouTube Master Scout so Randle may well be much better than Vonleh, and all I ever said about it was that I would have preferred Vonleh. But I have never said Randle was a dumb pick or anything, and I hope that the FBG YouTube MasterScouts like you are right about him. Because if they’re not, Jim Buss is done and the Lakers attempts to get back in the game will be set back quite a bit.
Shaun says
Ok …. but why lou williams … and how cam we sign him for this amount …. ir jordan hill heading to toronto in a s&t ….. if true …. now this is a trade chip for the deadline or at least a good role player at a very good price …. was 6th man last year .. looks like a plan c move in terms of adding a good role player that we had all been asking for …. not sure how we have this money …. but if ilwe somehow still have out cap space before thw hibbert trade maybe we can find some cash for an sf
Aaron says
This might be a sign we are going to trade Russell or Clarkson and we need a cheap but solid back up PG for the future.
bluehill says
FO doing work now.
Joe Houston says
Looks like we are going to try to trade for Boogie Cousins again.
Fern says
I think that means that they plan to move Nick Young, how? I dont know but they might be cooking something.
Todd says
Signing a soon to be 30 year old, 6’1″ SG for three years sounds about right for our FO. They keep on making acquisitions as if they are a player away. Neither Hibbert or Williams moves the win meter nor do they make us more attractive to FAs next summer.
This is another ‘let’s make sure we don’t set a record for losses three years in row’ move.
rr says
rr,
Funny you think you’re smarter than the FO.
—
Well, I would have been smart enough to give Kobe one year and not to re-sign Nick Young. And, I said that the FO wanted Hibbert–not that I did. I consider the Hibbert move to be mostly irrelevant. Work more on reading.
But overall, I don’t think that I am especially smart. That’s your game. I just try to use common sense, and keep things simple, and I think that you and Slappy are so locked into your narrative and so shell-shocked by where the team is that you can’t see the big picture anymore. A lot of people at SSR have the same problem. I have a long reply to Slappy in mod that explains one reason why.
I await your explanation of how signing Lou Williams for 3/21 is part of the plan.
Shaun says
Lou is 28 same age as hibbert …. id actually like it if we resigned hibbert to an extension before a possible breakout. … if he would agree to 10-12mil per it would be great considering the contracts being handed out in this new world
We better not trade clarkson …. need to keep randle, clarkson and russell together … would be pretty disapointed
If we are able to sign lou because we still have our cap space before the hibbert trade that would give us another 8 mil to spend
If it is possible because nick is getting traded than we might only have like 1-2mil in space
I think this lends thw idea that kobe might play sf exclusively on the team since lou,russell and clarkson could rotate at the 1-2 … lou is only a 6’1 sg/pg so hed almost have to guard the other teams pg …. big upgrade over ronnie price
Would nick young be our backup sf to kobe if hes still on the team?
Btw nick on his contract is a great value in the new emvironement …. 2 very tradeable contracts in lou and nick for the deadline this year
rr says
Also, Aaron, you have never really been clear on what I wanted the FO to do. I think signing one young guy, even if he is overpaid and not great, would have been OK, depending on the guy. I never advocated signing a bunch of guys, like New York did.
But instead of worrying about me, you should think about what Jordan and Davis just did, where they signed, those teams’ future cap situations, and consider the implications for your master plan.
The Williams signing could mean anything–maybe they found someone to take Young, maybe they are moving Russell or Clarkson, or maybe they are just saving face and burning money. Williams is good at what he does, but he is almost 29 and a guy who fits better on a good team. He is a guy you could flip at the deadline.
Calvin says
rr – signing Hibbert and Lou Williams are actually anti-tank moves. This shows that Mitch and Jim are not planning to tank this coming season. Hibbert is in a contract year. I can seem him getting really motivated to average 14, 8 and maybe 2 or more blocks per game. Lou Williams can really score in bunches, and can actually close out some games. In the last 3 minutes, Lou is someone who can create offense. He’s got this quick move going left where he can get a shot up quickly off a high pick. Whether this current roster is capable of competing for the 8th spot is questionable though.
Chibi says
Williams just entered his prime.
Robert says
Aaron: So you did not agree with Russell, you were puzzled that we gave a pick to the Pacers, and now Williams – so you and the FO are not agreeing on much this summer – true?
Fern: I agree – Nick Young has got to go now.
Oldtimer says
Missed the homerun and Mitch scored double on the bottom of the 9th. Lou Williams is a great acquisition and future leader of the team in post Kobe era. With Hibbert and Lou with Kobe, Clarkson, Randle, Russell I believe Lakers are playoff bound and will replace the Clippers.
Ryan says
Love Lou Williams game. Great pick up. We need real NBA players. Glad to see we got two to go with the jc-randle-russell-black-nance-brown-upshaw youth movement.
Getting him and Hibbert is definitely decent. IMO Aldridge wouldn’t have made a difference, and Jordan probably had no reason to come here. We won’t be a playoff team but these games might be watchable and the team could be fun.
Joe Houston says
rr, no way would Kobe had accepted a 1 year deal. Also, I hope you realize teams have to spend up to 90% of the Cap each season. If you didn’t sign Nick you would have had to find someone else to take the money. Who exactly would that have been? Also, please tell us this “Young guy” you would have signed in this year’s free agent class?
Aaron says
rr,
No. I liked the Hibbert deal. As I said I think he can help Upshaw and help us lose games. I just would have thought we could have got a pick to go with him. And yes the Williams deal seems like we got him to trade him along with Nick Young at the deadline. But maybe we got him to also keep Russell on the bench (something I like rookies to be for their long term development)
Robert,
I said I trust the Lakers in the draft because they have more at their disposal than just game film (me). And after watching the sport science on Russell I’m much happier.
Mansa says
I”m actually happy with these moves. We do need some solid vets to put with the young guys. I truly hope this Williams signing means the end of Nick Young and has nothing to do with Clarkson. I think Russel is pretty safe; the Lakers really like this pick.
rr,
As far ass the Randle/Vonleh comparisons, I believe that Randle will be a much better player. I don’t think it’s even close. I’ve been watching this kid since high school and Mcdonald’s all American. I wanted him for the Lakers but thought there would be no way we could get him. This dude to me has second best player potential. The comparisons to Zach Randolph are way off. He can play inside /out.
Laker fan in Raptorland says
Looks like the lakers found a new power forward: http://www.sbnation.com/2015/7/5/8897439/brandon-bass-los-angeles-lakers-contract-nba-free-agency-2015
R says
This talk of the moves meaning Kobe plays SF exclusively or semi exclusively … OK could also mean Kobe isn’t expected to play much at all in any capacity. To recap: he’s 37, has suffered three straight season-ending injuries, and if anybody has come back from a similar situation to contribute I’d be interested in hearing about it. At the very least, the FO seems to be planning for the possibility that Kobe doesnt contribute this coming season.
barry_g says
Cory Joseph for 4 yrs, $30M???? Those are EXACTLY the kind of contracts I was worried about the Lakers signing up for…
Altemawa says
the contracts given to players now are out of this world. how much salary cap will there be in the following years?
on topic, i like Lou Williams game. i think he can give us boost off the bench, and can be a good mentor for – jc-randle-russell-black-nance-brown-upshaw youth movement (i like this from Ryan).
and with that price, i believe he’s a steal… but now Young could be going out, we have lots of guards now in the team.
as for me, just keep our young players intact and develop them, this is the best way to form a contender, although i know Lakers rarely develops rookie to stardom.
next year, add an elite player who wants to come, then we can dream of playoffs again.