If you listen to D’Angelo Russell talk, he will mostly discuss ways he needs to improve. He’ll talk about needing to get stronger, cut down on his turnovers, pay more attention defensively, and on and on. He understands he’s young, is a work in progress, and that he did not have his best showing in Summer League.
But, even though Russell clearly could have played better, the flashes of what he can be were there. His court vision is sublime and his ability to see plays developing ahead of time got his teammates a lot of good looks over the team’s five games in Vegas. And while his shot wasn’t as accurate as it could have been, in the team’s final LVSL game against the Jazz, he got the hot hand and showed off some of the shot making that earned him All-American honors after his lone season at Ohio St:
https://youtu.be/ObhZlLVhcTY
What stood out to me most from the barrage of made shots is how effortlessly he shoots the ball. The ease in which he rises up and simply flicks the ball is a beautiful thing. In fact, it’s this motion and smoothness of his jumper that left me almost totally unconcerned with his shooting percentage in the Lakers’ previous four games.
What also stood out to me, however, was how often Russell was creating his own shot off the dribble and how this really is only one aspect of how he can score. While at OSU, Russell did great work off screens and also showed he could be a fine spot up option. In Vegas, the combination of the sets the team ran and his role as the primary ball handler didn’t allow these other parts of his game to shine through. Come the regular season, though, when he’s on the floor with Kobe and as he gains more chemistry with Clarkson and Randle, I do believe he’ll get to expand the ways in which he scores.
That’s down the line, though. For now, watch Russell cook in the video above again. He ended his time in Vegas the way we all like to, with the hot and hand and cashing in.
rubenowski says
Dope
Warren Wee Lim says
^ Dope indeed.
But we Laker fans just need to chill about him. There’ll be nights where he’d be a world beater and nights when he’d be a regular 19yo kid trying to get his feet wet. The season will be long, hard and a mountain to climb. I just wish our season and our team health for this season. I don’t care about everything else.
I wanna see everyone play, Kobe included. I want to see what we can do. I want to see us grow. I just want to see everyone healthy and hopeful.
Kaleo says
Thanks Darius. Great upside. Russell is smooth as…..for being just 19 playing in the NBA AND for the Lakers that’s gotta be pressure….he’s done well…..so has Randall. At the Lakers have got guys who are young, gifted, can run….they’ll be fine. Mixed in with the veterans who knows…..everyone stays healthy, Kobe shares the ball hey, anything is possible. Ain’t saying no 17th title, but a much better season than the last 2 or 3 for sure.
Maybe a coaching needs to happen? Not sure the Princeton is for this current team…..bring in Nash in some capacity as well. Aloha!
jason says
I think one of the main reason he played so good last game clarkson and randle took some pressure off him by handling the ball most of the game and the ball wasn’t stuck so much chemistry is key for these guys
J C says
Darius,
Nice write-up.
I agree with you, Russell’s got a sweet shooting stroke. I have a feeling that, along with his bounce pass to the cutter, were the kind of plays the Lakers saw on tape or in workouts that won them over.
Jason, I agree – chemistry will be key here. I hope Clarkson won’t mind sharing the spotlight.
Kale o,
You just made me think about something.
I wonder if Nash could be the next Steve Kerr?
Take the plunge into coaching. He’s probably not ready but I’ll bet he’d make a fine head coach someday.
reed says
his best shot is from the elbow and free throw-line extended. He had over half his points off of those shots.
reed says
These shots can set up a lot of different opportunities for others and him.
Prob says
You know, a lot of people laugh when Mitch says things like this team can make the playoffs, and I do too. But than I look at this roster on paper, and I watch this kid play And pick apart the defense and it becomes quite clear to me that that not only is D’Angelo Russell the real deal, but the sky is the limit for this team next year and you could be looking at lakers team fighting for that 8 seed for sure. But it really all depends on Russell ‘s relationship with Kobe, and how much he’s allowed to do when he’s on the floor with Kobe.
Chemistry, is only question for this team. How well can they all gel. Can Kobe play with this kid. And can Russell lead like he says he can and get everyone on the team to buy-in with his passing and court sense. He obviously doesn’t need to score when he brings the ball up and on the wing he see Nick Young, and on the other wing he sees the raining 6 man of the year, Lou Williams. So this isn’t about Russell coming in trying to be greatest player of all time on day one, it’s going to be a matter of Kobe being on the same page as him, and him putting the rest of the team in postions to succeed. This is a lot to ask of a 19 year old kid in his first year that wants that Rookie Of The Year award more than anybody, but we don’t make the rules and he’s on a better team this year than the other lottery picks from this draft.
So does Kobe take him under his wing? Does Kobe teach him more things off the court than he does on the court in order to give this kid more confidence on how to handle being star player in this league and the type of mentality and what it really takes to be great and be great for so long. We love Allan Iverson, Steve Francis, Brandon Roy but how they ended their careers is what this Russell should keep in mind as motivation.
This is uncharted territory for Kobe for many obvious reasons but this is the one that no one really talks about. Kobe’s never played with a point guard as talented as Russell is on the lakers. (Let’s be real DFish was not a real point guard, nor was he as ‘talented’ as Russell is.) Russell can legit be another Chris Paul or Kyrie Irving. And I’m only using these names because they are examples of ball dominate guards that aren’t the most athletic on the floor, but still terrorize the defense through pick n rolls and there mid range game. Russell has a chance to be like one of those guards maybe not as good, but definitely in the same conversation.
So does Kobe open up? Does he learn to trust D’Angelo? Can Kobe play off the ball and allow D’Angelo to dictate plays, and find him in the same spots he likes to score in? These will be the defining question to the success or disappointment of Russell’s rookie campaign. Whether Kobe likes it or not (I hate to say it too) this is the passing of the torch with Russell.
Michael says
Geeze the kid is good. He can already create space for himself without a pick.
tankyou says
What is going on with all the people thinking that we can fight for the 8th seed next year? Seriously, do you pay attention to other teams besides the Lakers? I think some fans just love their team so much that they live in a bubble. This team is not going to be the 8th seed, no way, even if Randle and Russel become amazing rookie of the year candidates. The only way that happens is if the west is hit again with a massive amount of injuries. There is another side of the court where defense is supposed to happen–and that side of the court is not going to be wonderful for us. Hibbert for all his defensive presence, he rotates lousy, he’s slow, and he can’t get back on defense worth a crap, he lumbers up the court.
Guess we can only see, but by saying “the skys the limit” or other things I’m reading, your basically saying this mostly new team is going to be able to win 47+ games this year?! If they can win 37 games that would be a HUGE jump. Realistically speaking even if Russel/Randle/Clarkson all improve a lot this year, they will still be worse than nearly every veteran starter at their positions with the 1-10 teams. This team as it is set up is going to lose an awful lot, particularly in the beginning of the season. They are hands down one of the worst defensive line-up in the West, and until the young guys can prove something, they are one of the worst offensive line-ups as well. Unless you think Kobe is going to emerge like this is 5-6 years ago, before all the serious injuries–and I mean on defense as well as offense. It’s not happening. Mitch is just cheerleading, this team is not a borderline playoff team by any stretch of the imagination. We are solidly in the bottom 4 in the west–let’s just hope we see some great player development from the young guys.
reed says
JC,
If your not a legit supper star you better want more players to get in the light.
KJ says
This kid has all the tools to be an exiting player in this league. This will be a fun year to watch the kids grow and Kobe play off into the sunset. But this is by no stretch of the imagination a playoff team. 35 win team at best given the strength in the west. Our best hope is the kids show huge growth and flashes of greatness for what this team will be in 2 to 3 years. The other hope is that randle clarkson russell show enough potential to pique the interest of one of the 2016 big name free agents.
Craig W. says
I think ‘keeping it real’ means not getting too high or too low – something John Wooden preached for his teams. Not a bad idea for us fans either. Thinking we have three players who could verge on stardom next year is the high and – IMO – I think Clarkson making the rookie 1st team is the high water mark for us this year for one of the rookies. Thinking we will have worse defense than last year, because nobody can play defense and Hibbert is too slow is the low and – also IMO – our team is more willing to learn, including the vets, and we do have Kobe, who is a guiding presence, along with the team’s younger legs.
Kobe didn’t rack up the #1 NBA combination of scoring and assists because he was a ball hog. As one of the smartest players, having great footwork to both use and teach, and a thorough understanding of his body (Scott please don’t overuse him), Kobe has earned his place and can mentor – just likely not visible to us fans.
bmcburney says
It is not unreasonable to say that the Lakers will contend for the playoffs this coming year.
On paper, there are six teams in the Western Conference which, barring injury, are playoff locks: (1) Warriors; (2) Spurs; (3) Clips; (4) Memphis; (5) Houston; and (6) OKC. That leaves nine remaining teams looking for the last two spots. I discount the chances of Phoenix, Portland and Dallas which were all severely hurt by free agency (although Phoenix may have a master plan, I don’t understand it). That leaves Denver, Minnesota, NOLA, Sacramento and Utah contending with the Lakers for two spots. Although I believe Utah, NOLA and (even) Sacramento are threats to make the playoffs, they are all thin, fragile, teams for one reason or another. In particular, NOLA is a one man team and Sacramento is a daytime drama waiting to happen. I am not sure what to make of Denver. It seems like Mudiay will surely make them better but they may lose their best player from last year, Ty Lawson. Anyway, I am not sure they can both be on the Court at the same time. The Wolves and Lakers are similar in that they have a group of young players who might work out well. But the Lakers also seem to have a superior core of vets (Kobe, Lou Williams, Hibbert, Bass, Nick Young).
I don’t think last year’s record means much. Would you rather have Kobe or Wes Johnson starting at SF? (Hint: which would you leave open at the three line?) Would you rather have last year’s Jordan Clarkson or this year’s Jordan Clarkson? Would you rather have Lou Williams or Wayne Ellington? None of those comparisons is close. Also, despite whatever limitations he may have in terms of speed, Roy Hibbert is just a much better player than Jordan Hill. Brandon Bass is better, clearly better, than Carlos Boozer. It’s not that Hill, Boozer and Ellington can’t play; they were among the biggest contributors last year. It’s just that none of them are likely to be good enough to play on the team next year. That should tell you something.
Real success, especially long term success, will depend on how good Russell and Randle turn out to be. Real mediocrity, however, is achievable this year.
Baylor Fan says
Russell must have a strong grip and wrists to be able to make the passes and shoot the way he does. Even though next season figures to be painful, it will be fun to watch him develop.
Teamn says
Nice post. I’m excited for the year. Anxious to see the young guys and Kobe. Any word on his status/health?
Looking forward to some exciting basketball (no, not expecting playoffs).
lakeshowftw says
this kid could be special. i dont expect as much like everyone else i just hope to see sustained growth as the season progresses much like we saw with jordan clarkson. People that think kids just come in and become stars out of the gate are naive. i mean look at kobe it took him couple years. Lebron wasnt one of the best in game in his first year either. The important thing is that they show flashes and learn as they play more. Future is bright but we arent gonna see who these players really are for about 3 years
CHearn says
Princeton was biding one’s time offense. It is a stop gap between Kobe’s final years and the future. If, indeed D’Angelo is the prospect the Lakers believe him to be, then and only then should they pursue a coach and a system that allows his skill set a full platform.
CHearn says
Sorry for double posting:
Recall that Kareem was ready to retire until Magic entered the league and made scoring effortlessly for him. Russell could extend Kobe’s career in that same manner by making it easy for Kobe to maintain his scoring thrust in year’s 21 and 22 in alignment with Robert’s vision (mine’s as well).
clover says
Post all-star break Clarkson, Randle and Russell will be in the top 20 for their positions in PER (average or better for starters in the league).
reed says
suns, mavericks, and Utah will be fight for the 8th seed. If you don’t think if we stay healthy we don’t have a chance to compete and maybe get lucky and have thinks bounce for us we sneak in. I am thing 10-15% chance to sneak in. Crazier thinks have happen.
Todd says
Clover: slow down. I think our young trio will be very good but they will take time to develop. I belive your prediction comes true in two seasons. Let the kids take their lumps this year (we have a very average set of vets to support them). They will be better for it in the long run — there is huge long term value in getting their butts kicked early in their careers.
This rebuild will take the balance of the decade — but I think it will be worth it.
tankyou says
@bmcBurmey,
Hibbert-Better defender inside 10 feet, worse outside 10 ft.
Jordan Hill, Better offensive player inside and out, better rebounder, better PnR player, worse defender than Hibbert around the rim. Hill was not some scrub, he was pretty consistent when he got the minutes in the beginning of last season at snagging rebounds and scoring.
Lou Williams, worse defender, worse 3 point shooter, better slasher, better shot creator. No size 6’1 yet not really a PG.
Wayne Ellington, much more efficient shooter, much better consistent 3 point shooter, better defender, 6″4″ could still defend on switches vs. SF’s fairly well. Cheap contract.
Brandon Bass, slightly better rebounder, much better defender, slightly worse all around offensive player.
Boozer, OK rebounder, excellent outside shooter/decent scorer still, fairly horrible defensive player.
Clarkson–? Who knows, but I agree, should be at least a bit better one would assume. Yet, compared to last year, not likely to be much better than Lin. Clarkson and Lin actually seem to have similar games, great slashers–attacking guards, but only OK shooters, although Lin improved, let’s hope Clarkson becomes a 36%+ 3 point shooter b/c our team really needs someone who can hit 3’s consistently.
Wes Johnson, much better defender, inconsistent offensive player, good on fast breaks, decent rebounder.
Kobe, still a decent rebounder, much better offensively, much worse defensively. (still don’t think he will play the 3-SF much at all, but people here keep penciling him in).
Lou Williams will most likely continue to be a bench guy, if not, he’s going to really struggle playing the bulk of his minutes against starters. Williams is not going to be able to defend 1st string shooting guards at all, the West has plenty of good one’s still. So if he’s forced into that role he’s going to be a major defensive liability.
If you look at Jordan Hill, seriously the guy was not some scrub. Hibbert is basically better in one dimension only, hopefully his rim deterence is a big enough deal to help us defensively, but in nearly every other categegory Hill is the better player. So this is not some major upgrade.
Clarkson is still a big question mark defensively, we will see how he does in that area, but I’m quite certain he isn’t going to be the next “glove”. Kobe’s defense just isn’t there anymore. So this team is hanging its hat basically purely on rookie SF’s–assuming they get a decent amount of PT, and Bass/Hibbert. Bass/Hibbert are definitely helpful, but we are also losing defensive prowess at the 2/3, and may not be much better at the 1 at all. So again, if you look at the statistics, especially the defensive one’s on who we have, this is no gimme or guarantee we are better. Last season’s record certainly wasn’t indicative of what we could have done if Kobe kept playing, Hill, Swaggy, (Kelly), didn’t get hurt. Of course we also lost on purpose on ton, by calling starting Kelly/Sacre an “experiment” which was one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. As if they didn’t know already that they were not starters, and signficantly worse players than those we had starting earlier. With hope that the young guys do some damage this year, I give this team maybe 5 more wins(30-35 range–since last season they should have won more healthy), but that’s also b/c a few teams in the west become more beatable (Portland, Dallas for sure). Suns I think are going to surprise people and be better this year, Tyson Chandler can really help them and they do have some serious talent. Timberwolves might surprise people as well, I think their tanking is over.
Oldtimer says
Lou Williams worse than Ellington as an SG, really? Sometimes, we all make controversial analysis based on the eye of the beholder. NBA doesn’t think so or else they would not award him sixth player award like LO. Anyway, we are all entitled to our own opinion imagining the glass half empty,half full or water inside an empty glass. lol!
kareem says
tankyou,
You’ve kept repeating over and over that Lou Williams is an inefficient scorer, despite the fact that numerous posters have corrected you repeatedly. He is a fairly efficient scorer, with a true shooting percentage (.564) on par with Chandler Parsons, Paul Millsap, and Damian Lillard. Wayne Ellington by comparison has a TS% of .504. Again, no comparison.
While Bass can’t shoulder the same offensive load as Boozer, he is actually more efficient based on TS%. In approximately the same amount of floor time, Boozer averaged only 1 more point per game.
Hibbert and Hill, defense: This is another point where your argument is not supported by any solid evidence.Hibbert is a superior defender everywhere on the floor because his length allows him to bother shooters. Obviously team has something to do with this, but Hibbert’s defensive supporting cast was greatly hampered last year due to injuries. Hibbert is clearly the superior defender everywhere. We have a bunch of scorers returning/joining the team this year. We don’t need Hill’s offense. So I’d much rather take the dramatic defensive upgrade.
I don’t even want to suggest we’ll make the playoffs, but this will be a much better team if all the if’s follow through (health, growth, etc.). I’m excited to see a presentable team next year.
Hill’s defensive charts: http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=201941
Hibbert’s defensive charts: http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=201579
Shaun says
Lawson to houston ….. if only they kept josh smith ….. rich getting richer
Mid-Wilshire says
“Hibbert-Better defender inside 10 feet, worse outside 10 ft.
Jordan Hill, Better offensive player inside and out, better rebounder, better PnR player, worse defender than Hibbert around the rim. Hill was not some scrub, he was pretty consistent when he got the minutes in the beginning of last season at snagging rebounds and scoring.”
@ tankyou,
With all due respect, I might take issue with your comparison of Roy Hibbert and Jordan Hill. You seem to portray Hill as a much better player than Hibbert offensively and inferior only in the isolated instance of rim protection (which, of course, is a big issue).
First of all, the issue of rim protection IS a big deal. Rim protection can influence a team’s defensive performance to an immense degree. For example, last year Lakers’ opponents made 18.9 field goals per game within 5′ of the basket, the 3rd worst in the league. Indiana’s opponents, on the other hand, made 14.8 fg/game, the 2nd best in the league. That translates to a difference of 8 pts. per game which, by itself, can win you several games that you wouldn’t otherwise have a remote chance of winning.
Individually, Hibbert has been one of the leagues most effective “volume rim protectors” for years. Out of 40 NBA players who defended at least 7 shots per game at the rim last season, Hibbert ranked 4th in opponents’ field goal percentage (42.6%) at the rim. Only Rudy Gobert, Serge Ibaka, and Andrew Bogut — all elite defenders — ranked higher. That would give the Lakers a crucial, immense upgrade in rim protection. Jordan Hill, by contrast, ranked 38th out of 40 in allowing opponents to convert 55.4% of those shots. This, as you know, was an important area in which the Lakers last year were simply abysmal. That should change.
On offense, you seem to imply that Hill, who, as you put it, “is not scrub” (I would agree), is simply much better than Hibbert in all areas. Actually, their numbers — although favoring Hill slightly — are surprisingly comparable. The comparative statistics are given below:
JORDAN HILL
Minutes per game — 26:46
Points per game — 12.0
Rebounds per game — 7.9
FG % — 45.9%
Assists — 1.5 per game
ROY HIBBERT
Minutes per game — 25:20
Points per game — 10.6
Rebounds per game — 7.1
FG % — 44.6%
Assists — 1.1 per game
As you can see, then, the ultimate difference, statistically, between the 2 players on offense is actually quite small but is quite large (in Hibbert’s favor) in terms of defensive rim protection.
As a result, I would say that the acquisition of Hibbert (and, in effect, the replacing of Hill with Hibbert) should be a net positive for the Lakers this next year. Hill was, after all, playing out of position last year. Hill is a power forward and, on a good team like the Spurs, would probably be a #7 man overall coming off the bench. Meanwhile, Hibbert, for all his flaws, is a natural center and a defensive force, especially when it comes to the all-important area of rim protection.
Hibbert’s blocking shots at the rim (and altering shots, as well) should be a welcome sight for Laker fans this coming year. I think it’s a good trade. Of course, only time will tell.
AusPhil says
Losing Josh Smith will not hurt Houston if T.Jones stays fit.
Wes says
Mid– Hibbert cost twice as much as the 2014/15 Hill and over four times as much as the 2015/16 Hill. Unfortunately, Hibbert doesn’t add as much value as his salary implies. He likely won’t be on the team next year.
Better to have wooed Monroe as next year we’ll likely lose our draft pick and won’t be good enough to attract an elite FA. Lakers run the risk of not being able to add significant talent to their roster next summer. This wil be a longer rebuild than many think.
Baylor Fan says
That is a great response Mid. Monroe was not coming to LA, he was looking for a good fit and a winning team. Hibbert was the best remaining option for center. If he decides he likes playing in LA for the Lakers, he could become part of the future. The Lakers desperately need to fix their defense and Hibbert is a major step in the right direction.
J C says
Reed,
Good point, but I think that’s how Clarkson sees himself – as a superstar in the making. And who knows? Maybe he is. A Westbrook type.
But I’m not particularly a Westbrook fan. As an athlete, he’s insanely gifted. He’s just a little too shot-happy for my tastes, for a PG.
Thats kind of how I view Clarkson. He’s explosive and growing by leaps and bounds. But I’ve seen him hold the ball and take the shot when a pass was CLEARLY the better and easier play. Multiple times.
So I’m a little curious to see how he and Russell co-exist, or if Clarkson’s hunger for building his resume will affect Russell’s growth and eventual place on the team.
You may not recall Norm Nixon, but he was a really smooth and effective player. He won a title – But he was a PG that flourished with the rock. He and Magic didn’t co-exist for long. Norm was traded for Byron – a shooter. The rest is history.
Keno says
JC. You forgot to part about Debbie Allen! Norm was at my office last year. Nice guy. Likes wine.
the other Stephen says
@Chearn,
I was just thinking the same thing this past week, regarding whether these rookies might be able to extend Kobe’s career, except I was drawing upon Charles Barkley’s impact on Julius Erving and Moses Malone.
J C says
What – Keno –
Is that you? KO?
I was wondering where you were!
Welcome back.
Maybe I should change my handle too.
Do you find your posts undergo less scrutiny now?
Not sure what Debbie Allen has to do with D’Angelo Russell, to be honest.
But I like reference because it really dates you.
Fern says
Funny to see all these praise when a couple of days ago all i read was “Mitch make a mistake” and “okafor is better” and “bust”, the kid still have ways to go but it looks like he finally finding his stride, about the turnovers, i dont worry too much about that, i could not watch the games just highlights but i bet at least half of those TO’s were passes that teammates were not ready for. Funny, Westbrook and Curry commit a lot of turnovers and they dont get any flak for it, why? Because with being a pg handling the ball a lot that comes with the territory. With better talent around and people getting used and sharp to his passing they should go down by at least half. I expect some growing pains but he can be a star on this league if all comes togheter. About the Lakers, i dont expect playoffs, but i do expect over 30 wins and maybe look at the 8th seed from a stone throw distance, at least thats a move on the right direction. That would be a sucess for me and something to keep building on.
tankyou says
@Kareem, OK I stand corrected to some degree then. On the eye test Hibbert doesn’t look good to me at all once he hits the free throw line area. But I’m sure with all the small ball out there there are going to be plenty of games we are going to have massive problems, such as covering Draymond Green. But again, I still think he’s a defensive plus compared to Hill, but apparently his offense is less of an issue, but hill played really well the first half of the season, he dropped off the map the second.
In regards to Williams my issue with him is not his True shooting %, yes he gets lots of foul shots, so his true shooting % is better. But he is a worse outside shooter than Ellington, and his defense is worse and he’s small. Clearly as a 6th man pure scorer he’s head above Ellington, but I don’t view that as being something we need. Other teams sure. Why do we need someone who is bad defensively and takes a lot of shots? We already have Clarkson/Kobe/Russel that are going to want to dominate the ball and shoot a good amount already–plus Swaggy? I view it as a lousy fit, when your trying to develop guards, better to keep a guy who plays good defense and plays off ball well like Ellington–so Clarkson/Russel can develop and use Ellington’s 3 pt shooting to rack up assists and keep the floor spread a bit. Willams is a scorer no doubt, but I suppose I just don’t view that as very important–I want to see Russel learn to play, not play 2nd filddle to a Vet with the 2nd unit.
My only real concerns for this season is improving, and particularly finding a way to keep Russel/Randle on the floor a fair amount so they can develop quickly. Hibbert/Bass don’t require the ball so I’m happy with them. My frustration with Williams is he does require the ball alot and isn’t shy about trying to score nearly every time down the court, I don’t view this as helpful with our young guards. Plus we just have no defense right now to speak of, Clarkson is our defensive stopper now, which he isn’t. We can’t just have most of the 1-3 positions from the other teams get whatever they want.
Mike in Beijing says
I will give anyone on this board 5-1 odds that the Lakers will not make the playoffs. Easiest 20% ROI of my life.
Craig W. says
tankyou,
When Mitch is putting the team together he has to think in terms of combinations, in terms of experience, personalities, and skills. My guess is that the only young player who will start is Clarkson – reason: why ruin talent in the West by starting them against all-stars every night, let them come in after the game develops a flow, adapting and learning more easily. Kobe’s minutes will probably be noticeably reduced – I favor the John Ireland plan of 7min/qtr – and we need a dependable shooter to keep the team enough in the game to allow Scott to keep Kobe on the bench and that player wasn’t Ellington.
R says
JC — I think the reference to Debbie Allen is because she is married to Norm Nixon. Check out her resume on Wikipedia – it’s pretty impressive even though she’s no longer in the lime light.
Todd says
@ Wes: Better to have wooed Monroe as next year we’ll likely lose our draft pick and won’t be good enough to attract an elite FA. Lakers run the risk of not being able to add significant talent to their roster next summer. This will be a longer rebuild than many think.
__
That is a very real concern of mine as well. I don’t think we’ll make the playoffs but I don’t think we’ll be challenging for the worst record in the league either. So the pick is likely gone. Next year’s free agent class is slim, it’s really KD, Al Horford (who will be 31 yrs old) or Joakim Noah (also 31 yrs old). I don’t think KD wants to wait the for the kids to get their championship legs under them and Horford/Noah are last piece of the puzzle guys due to their age/mileage.
So without a pick or an elite free agent we are looking at improving on the margins — lower level free agents like this year’s Bass/Williams and salary dumps like the ill-fitting Hibbert. We really will be left with organic growth from the core of Russell/Randle/Clarkson to improve. I like the trio and hope they are what we need them to be but the we’ll have to see them under fire to know for sure.
Regarding Monroe, I was a huge proponent of prioritizing him. Not sure if him knowing he was our third choice hurt our chances but clearly he was tired of losing and the Bucks have a nucleus that is ahead of ours (developmentally). Plus they play in the East and that division is a Lebron injury away from being wide open.
As for the Lakers, I think watching the kids develop will numb some of the pain — but there will still be a fair amount of losing.
Oldtimer says
Mike in Beijing,
As Laker fans, we are united in optimism once the game starts. We all look at Lakers in the Finals even in dream only by taking one game at a time. Being a longtime Laker fan, I never surrender to any other team superiority during preseason. I don’t short sell the team at this point when no evidence appear that they are an awful team except during Summer League exhibitions.
Mitch may not have accomplished what he wanted but getting Hibbert, Bass and Lou Williams after July 4th was close to miracle of his magic wand. If you followed this site during that time, Lakers have been refused by marquee F/A’s starting form Aldridge, Jordan, Monroe, Love, Butler, Harris, Lopez and Biyombo, would you believer? Why are we blaming Mitch for getting Hibbert? We are lucky that Pacers looked at another option when West decided to opt out, Larry Bird thought of rebuilding and would not continue paying Hibbert. If not, our next Center target would be Koufo. We are also lucky with Lou Williams, his multi year deal did not fit to Raftor’s objective or escaped to other team needs. It was possible Lakers had a zero F/A acquisition at that time and would depend on Vet-Min applicants again.
I would blame Mitch and other decision makers in setting their goals and priorities. From the Day2 (7/2), they already have a clue on the decision of Monroe, Aldridge and Jordan who were the 1st tier targets, Lakers should have chased our own good players like Davis and Ellington and entered into multi year negotiation with Hill than letting them go just like that. Well, they dilly dallied and waited for July 4th before going for RH and others.
Dreaming of Durant and Westbrook in the future is another Laker saga to consider. It has to relate to team’s performance this season and market attraction to these F/A’s. Performance in the sense that if Lakers land in the playoffs, we have a strong argument that this F/A has a solid support players behind him, not just a glamour team. Lakers market is hot commodity in NBA and when Kobe retires who inherits the promotional value of this market. As you can see, Lakers is a so-so team where can find fan’s passion 24/7 in forum, talk radio, TWC repeat telecast in english and spanish of anything about Lakers. If you are an F/A like Durant and others, you have to read between the lines how you will spend the highlight of your career. Having said that, I hope the Buss Family would not over sell the dynamics of this market by resorting to bill boards, over zealous suitors. Dr. Jerry Buss always protect the image of the Lakers, I hope the inheritors would take this cues in treating spoiled F/A’s
Oldtimer says
Tank you, you said: “So without a pick or an elite free agent we are looking at improving on the margins — lower level free agents like this year’s Bass/Williams and salary dumps like the ill-fitting Hibbert. We really will be left with organic growth from the core of Russell/Randle/Clarkson to improve. I like the trio and hope they are what we need them to be but the we’ll have to see them under fire to know for sure.”
I have enumerated in previous post why we ended to low level acquisition as you termed Hibbert, Williams and Bass.
With due respect to your opinion, I think our rookies have lots of potentials but not ready as starters. Clarkson maybe the best candidate as Starter PG but as you can see, Mitch was bidding on Ty Lawson to come to the Lakers, it means he is not fully sold out to start the season with Clarkson too. IMO, the dangers in developing Randle and Russell as starters, go to guys at the start of the season are as follows: 1) failure in the development, it is like eating food that is not fully cooked; it could yield accelerated development but that is a calculated risk. 2) In the mindset of a 19 year old, failure could be a traumatic experience. As you can see from the reactions of Russell and Randle from the concluded Summer League, they were dissatisfied with their performance, what more if they lose mercilessly in every game during the first 20 games of the regular season. 3) Lakers need to win at first opportunity because the fan base is clamoring for it after being a bad team for four consecutive seasons after Phil left us. You say it is hopeless, I say the otherwise. Reserve judgement when the event occurs, nobody here has the crystal ball. (I’m sure there are Laker fans in your family, friends and neighbors, share your opinion about playing these rookies from the start and see what they tell you.) 4). Russell was taken as #2, he wants to prove that he’s worth that pick but support his development by not putting him on the line of fire. Randle is coming from a year lay-off, I’m sure he’s questioning himself whether he is the Randle that we know in NCAA, Lakers should not put Randle in do or die situation of proving himself to self destruction and possible repeat injury again.
Those are my reasons why we need a slow development of this rookies. It is like testing a new prescription drug, you do it at small sample or experiment it to one segment of the market and see what are the results of the market test and its efficacy. Russell and Randle should play as 2nd team which is not really bad development, it means they are the new bench mob of which the Lakers have none before.
bmcburney says
tankyou,
Kareem and Mid-Wilshire have made the substantive points very well but here are a few numbers which show the huge gap between Hibbert and Hill, particularly on the defensive end. Overall, the numbers say Hibbert is an average starting center in the NBA, his WAR rank among NBA centers is 22, his RPM rank is 26. Jordan Hill has the worst WAR of any center in the NBA ranked by ESPN (70), his RPM is one slot better at 69. Although Hibbert is not quite as good on the offensive end as Hill (but they are very close), Hibbert’s defensive RPM is a positive 2.43 while Hill has a negative 1.42. On paper, changing Hibbert for Hill, and changing nothing else, would move the Lakers from 29th to 20th in opponent points allowed.
The change from Boozer to Bass is similar but not quite as dramatic. Boozer and Bass are very similar on the offensive end (Boozer has a slight advantage there) but overall Bass has a WAR rank of 44 and a RPM rank of 62 (among PF ranked by ESPN). Boozer has a WAR rank of 92 and a RPM rank of 87. In theory, the change from Boozer to Bass is worth 2.15 opponents points per game.
You are correct that Ellington is clearly a better defender than Lou Williams. However, Williams is so much better on the offensive end that the comparison is ridiculous. Overall, William’s WAR rank is 11 versus Ellington’s 31 (SG ranked by ESPN). William’s RPM rank is 12 versus 29 for Ellington. Re-read my original post, I am not saying Hill, Boozer and Ellington can’t play. They are all useful NBA players (although Boozer may be done) and helped the Lakers last season. But these are significant upgrades to core veteran players. All of these guys are much better than the players they are replacing.
Yes, I would like to see Clarkson and Kobe improve on defense. However, that may actually happen. Clarkson is an athlete and might learn how to play defense eventually. Kobe was constantly out of position on defense during the past few seasons, in part I think this was because he was trying to make heroic defensive plays (because he didn’t think the team could stop anybody otherwise). At the same time, admittedly, Kobe would also sometimes loaf on defense because, at times, he was the only player on the team with a chance of scoring or creating on the offensive end. Obviously, Kobe is no longer the player he once was. However, playing fewer minutes and taking on fewer responsibilities could improve his efficiency on both ends of the floor.
The negatives are also there. Just because things look better on paper doesn’t mean they are actually going to be better on the court. But I think mediocrity will get you into the seventh or eighth spot in the Western Conference next year. I don’t see how anyone can say mediocrity is not possible for this team.
Vasheed says
My picks last year were Vonleh and Anderson. My picks this year were Russell and Upshaw. So I have to be relatively optimistic about this year.
My biggest concern with drafting Randle was rim protection. We not only got Upshaw whom I rave about his shot blocking but also picked up Hibbert. These are exactly the type of guys to pair with Randle. We also have a small ball guy in Black.
I really like the balance of the team. We haven’t had this kind of youth movement in years and the Vets while maybe not sexy have defined roles. There may be some growing pains with this young core but at least there is a core and no longer a band of 1 year rentals auditioning to play some where in the NBA.
I’m not expecting the playoffs but, I don’t expect them to be bottom dwellers either. With unlikely odds of keeping the pick this year I’m going be rooting all year for the unexpected and a birth in the playoffs.
Oldtimer says
I am sorry Tank You, that quoted statement was addressed to Todd. Anyway, it also relates to your previous posts above.
Kbj says
Anyone who thinks Lakers are making playoffs are setting themselves up for disappointment. The 8th seed (New Orleans Pelicans) last season needed 45 wins and the 8th seed (Dallas Mavericks) in the 2014 playoffs had 49 wins. Lakers just have too many question marks. Their starting lineup is a rookie pg, a 2nd year sg, Kobe (who’s coming back from an injury and is recovering from the previous 2), Randle (basically a rookie) and Hibbert (who will not contribute much on offense). Barring trades or new acquisitions, I believe this team will get 35 wins. 35 wins is great. Its 14 more wins than last year. Will it be enough to make the playoffs? Probably not.
Keith says
The Lakers’ long term future is bright. However, the near term (next 4 or so years) may be painful. The K Brothers recent podcast touched on this. The new wave of free agency is: “show me the money and the talent”. FAs know the money is going to be there wherever they sign. But it’s now a requirement that there must be talent of the roster as well. Case in point, the last two summers where the Lakers have struck out on free agency.
The Lakers will have to take a page out of the Bucks’ playbook and develop a productive, young core first before it’s realistic to attract significant outside talent. What will slow the development of our core is the fact that we have to give up two of the next three 1st round picks.
The 2016 pick especially hurts because our youngsters will have growing pains that will likely lead to another top 7 lottery pick. Think of what another talent like Julius Randle would do to our future forecast. Unfortunately, this probably won’t happen as our pick is only top three protected.
If I had to guess our win total for the next 4 years it would be:
– 2015/16 = 30 wins (lose pick to 76ers)
– 2016/17 = 35 wins (keep pick – back end of the lottery)
– 2017/18 = 40 wins (lose pick to Orlando)
– 2018/19 = 45 wins and the playoffs
So, in my mind we really don’t become attractive to FAs until the summer of 2018 at the earliest (when we are on the cusp of the playoffs like the Bucks were this offseason) or the summer of 2019 when I think finally make it in. So those that have said it may take the rest of the decade to get back to being truly competitive are not far off.
Anonymous says
Typical
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/how-the-rockets-just-saved-the-lakers-from-themselves-with-ty-lawson-072015
rr says
Yeah, if the Lakers were really in on Ty Lawson, I would question that, unless they were planning to move him or Williams on to another team if they got him.
Craig W. says
I don’t hear anyone saying the Lakers will make the playoffs. I hear the Lakers could make the playoffs. Big difference.
Quoting how teams did last year as a reason the Lakers will or won’t make the playoffs is not realistic. We are not going to be contenders and it is only the contenders who can be compared to last year’s record. The other teams have make changes (Portland, Dallas, etc) and it is still uncertain how those changes will impact the chemistry or flow of the teams.
The key – IMO – for the Lakers is that they now have clear veteran and youth options at each position on the team, along with flexibility to go big or small. This not only gives us a chance in every game, but gives Scott some flexibility in developing his younger players. While this doesn’t guarantee winning, it certainly points to a much better team in the 2nd half of next year.
As I have said before, Shaq is the only big free agent the Lakers have signed over the last few generations. Why we should be crying about our inability to sign top free-agents is beyond me – except that the front office implied they thought this possible, bad on them.
tankyou says
Again my issue with Williams is he’s more of a win now player, then a guy to pick up when you have guards that need development time. If he could defend, I would be much more excited about him, but for me the Lakers only real hopes for the next couple years lie on Randle/Russel/Clarkson–not some yet to be unamed FA etc.
Yes I do think saying the Lakers “might” make the playoffs this year is basically like saying I might win the 100k on a scratch off lottery ticket. It could happen, but its extremely unlikely it won’t happen. This team would have to win 47-48 games most likely? To me that is not possible, no way, sure its in the realm of possibility but so are class X solar flares creating Carrington event 2.0, I don’t consider the odds much different. But whatever, some people think its possible–I don’t want to waste my time typing anymore about it–its clear I disagree. We can check out how things look by the end of December, where I believe it will be pretty obvious by the new year that the Lakers will not make the playoffs. It won’t be a nailbiter into March. But whatever I suppose this is all just opinion any any opinion is as good as anyone elses. You can quote me on my 30-35 wins, and then we can check out all the folks that think its possible that we win 47-48, which pretty much is neccessary to get the 8th seed.