Though the Lakers are most known for their old-guard names — Kobe Bryant, Mitch Kupchak, and even Byron Scott — they are also going through a noted youth movement. The past two drafts have brought Julius Randle, Jordan Clarkson, D’Angelo Russell, Larry Nance Jr, and Anthony Brown. The team’s projected roster will have at least seven players under the age of 25 as the team heavily invests in the type of young talent which can carry them into a new era.
That investment, however, is not limited to what’s happening on the court. Per Eric Pincus of the LA Times, the Lakers have also elevated a young talent in the front office:
The Lakers have promoted Ryan West to director of player personnel. West, formerly the team’s assistant director of scouting, started as a scout for the team in 2009. He also worked as a scout for the Memphis Grizzlies for almost eight years.
Though possessing over 13 years experience working for NBA teams, West is only 36 years old. So, while he is young, he is also experienced. And, of course, he has some bloodlines and pedigree being the son of Lakers’ legend Jerry West.
That type of background has certainly given West access and it’s clear he used that early in life to try and learn as much as possible. From a 2014 profile on West by Bleacher Report’s Kevin Ding:
The one part of Jerry’s life that he shared completely with Ryan in real time was running the Lakers.
That meant the kid sitting in on workouts for college players. No green allowed in the house in a pledge of unity against the Boston Celtics. A trip to the Final Four to scout when Ryan was 12. All that angst pervading the home while Jerry masterminded the arrival of both Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O’Neal.
“I feel like the Forum was my second home,” Ryan said. “For whatever reason, I just latched on to him and wanted to learn more and more about the game, as much as possible. I didn’t really understand what was going on at the time, but I really fell in love with the whole draft process, building teams, adding players who can contribute. For some reason, my dad and I just had a bond through basketball that set me on a path to where I am today. I learned the love of the game from him.”
Kupchak also describes West as “eager and bright” and that he “loves to work”, which shouldn’t be taken lightly. The life of a scout and player personnel man is one of long hours where watching film and traveling to see players in person in game situations and workouts are the norm. West has already been living that life, of course, but his promotion is proof the Lakers have confidence in him; that they trust his voice in the process.
Whether West becomes an even bigger presence in the team’s front office in the coming years remains to be seen. But considering his backstory, the Lakers’ history of loyalty to those in the “Laker family”, and his eye for talent (as Pincus notes, West was a key voice advocating for drafting Jordan Clarkson), it’s not farfetched to think this promotion is just the first of more to come.
But that’s down the line. For now, like the talent on the court, the Lakers are taking a chance on some youth in their front office. Here’s to it paying off.
Anonymous says
Having Ryan West may be the next best thing to having his father Jerry who is probably the closest thing to a talent-seeing savant the NBA has ever known.
If Ryan was a fan of Clarkson, kudos to him.
I’d be interested in hearing his opinion on D’A Russell.
Cal Owens says
I could see Ryan West becoming more of an influential part of management. I know people love analytics but the old fashion eye test is still the best way to judge talent
Warren Wee Lim says
Good move.
Baylor Fan says
Given that Jesse Buss is the Lakers’ director of scouting, what is Ryan’s job description? What does the org chart look like, who does Ryan report to? It is promising that he was promoted and it will be interesting to hear his next interview.
Todd says
I don’t know Ryan West other than he’s been in the organization for 13 years. While he certainly has a top notch pedigree, I haven’t heard much about his previous roles and responsibilities His father left the Lakers in 2002 around the time Ryan came on board.
My preference, in regards to the Lakers FO, has always been to hire talent from outside the organization. I have long thought the Lakers need to open the windows and let some fresh air in. I fear a group think mentality that perpetuates the status quo — which, by the way, has produced a series of miscues resulting in the mess we find ourselves.
The Buss FO has been far too insular for my taste and it appears they feel no urgency to change that going forward. We shall see how this plays out.
George says
Maybe, if Ryan were promoted earlier, he could have urged the Lakers to prioritize acquiring Greg Monroe. ESPN’s Kevin Pelton named him the 2015/16 top newcomer:
1. Greg Monroe | C
Milwaukee Bucks
Projected RPM: 3.6
Projected WARP: 7.1
I’m hardly disagreeing with voters who overwhelmingly picked LaMarcus Aldridge as the best newcomer, particularly in terms of his impact on the postseason. But consider this a reminder that Monroe is an awfully good player when he gets to play his natural center position. Last season, Monroe averaged 18.5 points and 11.9 rebounds per 36 minutes while shooting 49.6 percent from the field. But that doesn’t tell the full story. Check out Monroe’s stats per 36 minutes with and without center Andre Drummond on the floor:
Monroe PTS/36, REB/36 and FG PER/36 with/without Drummond on the court
– w/Drummond 16.7 10.2 .457
– w/o Drummond 20.3 13.4 .533
When at center, Monroe was a totally different and far more effective player. (Compare Aldridge’s 23.8 points and 10.4 rebounds per 36 minutes.) And that’s the position he’ll get to play on a full-time basis again this season in Milwaukee.
Joel says
The Buss FO has been far too insular for my taste and it appears they feel no urgency to change that going forward. We shall see how this plays out.
___
In an article about Ryan West, I saw that another Buss sibling Jesse, is the Director of Scouting. If Jeanie holds Jim to his promise and makes a move it would appear that she would promote from within. There’s no way she would go outside the organization — because a strong leader would see the rampant nepotism within the Lakers and likely want to change that. If the Lakers were a true meritocracy, the Buss kids would be relegated to being just owners.
Darius Soriano says
Todd,
West worked for the Grizzlies from 2002 – 2009.
Anonymous says
1
R says
I think it’s the rule rather than the exception for organizations which feature nepotism to have problems. The Raiders, Ford Motor Co come to mind. Also: Syria, North Korea.
Todd says
Darius: thanks – that helps ease my mind a little At least Ryan worked along side his dad. I’d like to see more talent brought in with fresh perspectives.
R says
A hopeful note in my mind is that Ryan West is young and experienced as pointed out above. Energy and experience is a nice combination.
Craig W. says
It is instructive to note that Ryan came to the Lakers after his dad left the Griz. IMO, that says something positive about the Lakers front office. Those wanting to ‘blow up’ the front office completely also want a quick turnaround. Which is it? You can’t have both. There is a period of time a completely new organization needs to understand how it is internally going to function. This is not a quick process.
We know Mitch and company can evaluate talent and their drafting skills, certainly, are well above average for the NBA. While changes may be made, it is silly to discard some real skill just because we are tired of the package. The free-agent market is difficult at best. The CBA has further insured that teams have to be ‘ready to go’ before top-tier free agents will really consider them. Monroe was probably not coming to the Lakers, regardless what they were able to offer him, so that complaint should be put to rest.
David Chia says
There was a great article about the GSW front office and how Jerry West said it was the best environment he’d ever been in. Hoping Jerry can pass along some wisdom and have that rub off on the Lakers FO.
Anonymous says
Don’t underestimate the power and impact that Ryan calling his dad for advice can mean. The Lakers have essentially hired Jerry West without having to give up a slice of the ownership pie to get him.
rr says
Quick turnaround: Pretty much no one, other than Jim Buss, has suggested that there is a path to a quick turnaround.
Monroe: As the KBros have pointed out, the Lakers could have submitted an offer sheet last year when Monroe was a RFA. Obviously, we don’t know what would have happened, but it was not an option that the FO chose to pursue. Monroe has his limits, but he is pretty good, he is a big, he is durable, and he is entering his prime. Not going after him hard suggests that the FO is still counting on scoring multiple elite FAs.
Ryan West/insularity/nepotism: Comes back to the same thing: Russell and Randle. If they, and Clarkson, are the real deal, and that leads to signing a couple of All-Star FAs in 2017, then no one will care about the nepotism/Kupchak’s age/analytics. If those things don’t happen, then those criticisms will—and should—grow louder, and Jim and Mitch will likely be gone. If that happens, and Jeanie puts Ryan West and Jesse Buss in charge, then the pressure on them will be enormous and immediate and the Lakers will be the target of more jokes than they are now. Ryan West + someone from outside the org with an analytics background would go over much better.
I will say that Ryan West, unlike the Busses, would probably have a NBA gig even if he were not with the Lakers.
BigCitySid says
– Will be on the look out for that name when personnel decision are made from here out. Interesting this wasn’t done BEFORE all this new young talent was signed by the Lakers.
Justin says
First Ryan has his own talent. He doesn’t need to call his dad on every player. Ryan already said they see eye to eye just from growing up learning from him. I would not be concerned in that regard.
As for the notion of completely changing the FO. You do realize that if Jim is removed you have a really good chance the new GM will try to make a bold move. Look at any major change in ownership/management. Those teams always get worse as the new owner/management learns how to really deal with it. When the Kings got rid of the Maloofs, the fans rejoiced. Ownership is still finding its way to be kind. When the Twolves finally got rid of McHale, they got Khan who wanted to place his stamp on the team. That’s where Curry was passed over. New owners/Management always want to place their stamp on things. This almost always ruins a team in the beginning. I like how the Lakers just promote Ryan up. There is no bad transition that way. If you want to fire Jim/Mitch, the way to do it is start training someone like Ryan West right now and move him just under Mitch.
George says
Monroe was probably not coming to the Lakers, regardless what they were able to offer him, so that complaint should be put to rest.
__
However, the Lakers did prioritize LA and Jordan knowing they were even less likely to join the team. LA was especially a bad fit and the FO made themselves look like fools in the chase. Who is to say how Monroe would have felt if the Lakers, like the Bucks, had made it clear he was their number one priority?
I don’t think those that want to blow up the front office are the same ones that want a quick turn around. In fact it’s the other way around. Those that support Jim support his sign multiple elite free agents approach which is the equivalent of hoping for a quick turn around.
I want a new President of Basketball Operations because we are in a multi-year rebuild and I think its better to have someone who can develop and execute a solid strategy as opposed to the ‘willy nilly’ approach we see each summer from the Lakers. Each season we waste rolling cap space forward so we can prioritize the wrong free agents adds even more time to what already will be a lengthy rebuilding process.
Justin says
@BigCitySid, Ryan was still employed by the team. It is just a promotion up. His voice would still have been heard in the draft room. Ultimately Mitch still gets to make the decision so his promotion wouldn’t likely have changed up.
Justin says
@George LA had the Lakers in his top 3 wish list. It has been said that Jeanie ran long and the basketball guys didn’t get enough time to sell their pitch. Also even when the analytic people got their time it was probably either too late or not that impressive. But they couldn’t have known that before recruiting him.
Monroe made it pretty clear when he chose the Bucks the main reason was they were a playoff team on the rise. Second Monroe is a terrible fit for the Lakers so it is odd that people think he would be a good get just because he is young. Guess what once the fit looks odd his trade value goes down. See Al Jefferson and Love together. Yes Jefferson ended up getting hurt, but even before that Jefferson’s value was declining. Remember he was the main piece in the KG trade. Also see Zach Randolph at the Knicks and Clippers. As a bad fit he had very little value. Then he is placed in the right system next to a guy that does the things he doesn’t and his value is at an all time high. Monroe paired with Randle or any other PF the Lakers could have got, would have only lowered his value. Everyone would have said he is the anchor on a bottom 3 defense and he only scores on bad teams. Good luck trying to trade him and get equal value.
As for rolling cap space, yes and no. It can be used in a trade. Also at some point the Lakers will become the good young team with cap space. Then they will become the most desired team. Having the cap space then becomes important because then you might be able to sign two FA plus still have guys like Russell, Clarkson, and Randle. Which if your goal is a championship it is the best chance. It is bad if either Randle or Russell are bust. Of course being patient is the thing people can’t seem to stand.
Now going out and getting guys like Bledsoe and Monroe is just as risky of a rebuild. (and as I stated Monroe’s fit makes it far riskier). Say they get one of those guys. That guy now takes up one of the three max player slots you have. If he fails to be good enough you just ruined 3 years of a championship run and have to hope the right player is there when you have money again. If the Lakers goal was just to be a playoff team sure that is the safe route to go. But the Suns don’t seem any closer to a championship since they got him. In fact it seems to have put them in the dreaded middle with no way to really improve. Do you think Bledsoe is in the Warriors, Spurs or Cavs top 3 if he was on the team? Players like him are fool’s gold. They make you just good enough to never be able to really win big.
The FA route may be a hard one to watch, but really there are only three ways to win a championship. A) Be so bad that you get a star player in the draft (doesn’t matter where in the draft as long as it is a star, higher just gives you a better chance), B) get a Transcending FA or C) make a steal of a trade.
So far the Lakers have been going the A route with the hope to also lure in B. Why are fans upset with trying to approaches? And they have tried C with Cousins and Love but teams are no longer dumb enough to make those trades (Harden might be the last time in decades before we see a star traded for a non-blue chip piece).
bmcburney says
Do you want to be mediocre quickly (and probably stay mediocre for a long time) or do you want to win championships?
If you want to win championships, you prioritize the best free agents and go for Greg Monroe after those guys have said no. If you choose to look at the issues rationally, you will recognize that the re-build has actually gone pretty well to this point. The Lakers have a good deal of cap room (after the season, when it matters) and flexibility and a number of good-looking young players.
Anonymous says
Do you want to be mediocre quickly (and probably stay mediocre for a long time) or do you want to win championships?
___
I love the faith of the FO supporters. Let’s see how Jim’s strategy plays out this season and next summer.
Anonymous says
If you choose to look at the issues rationally, you will recognize that the re-build has actually gone pretty well to this point.
—
Like I have been saying–FO defenders often have to attribute irrationality or some other such negative trait to opponents, because focusing on the facts doesn’t work well for them. Russell and Randle may be “good-looking” but we don’t know yet whether they will be good or whether they were the right picks in those spots.
As to the mediocrity-is-a trap meme, not always. Houston never tanked, for example, and they have a very good team. Not all 41-41 teams are created equal. As to Monroe specifically, one thing people sometimes miss is that guys like him can be traded as part of deals for unhappy superstars etc. and can be seen as plusses rather than straitjackets, especially with the cap going up. Linear thinking is generally a bad idea.
As to PHX and Bledsoe, they were in play for Aldridge and will be in play for Durant. Will they get him? Probably not. But having a guy like Bledsoe on a big deal is not necessarily a deterrent to landing a KD.
One problem with the young guys + elite FAs strategy is that the Lakers are still down two draft picks. Another is that the CBA incentivizes staying put, as we just saw with Anthony Davis. That is not to say that it can’t work–but IMO it is going to be much harder than a lot of FO defenders seem to think.
rr says
105 pm is me.
Craig W. says
It isn’t a question of front office supporters. The Buss family is not likely to ‘blow up’ the front office and they will also keep the Laker franchise in the family for the foreseeable future. The Lakers are an unusual franchise, but they are not a unique franchise – i.e. they have advantages over other NBA franchises, but they are not ‘game changing’ advantages. Getting rid of Jim will not solve all the Laker problems.
From a normal NBA franchise, the Lakers are in the middle of a rebuild and they look like they can improve in the future. Their drafting skill looks to be reasonably good. They have a cornerstone NBA talent at the end of his career, so they can continue to draw attendance throughout the league.
This is not a ‘tire fire’ and those who approach it as such would seem to be seeing the situation through how they wish things were, and complaining, rather than looking at the pluses and minuses in place today. Sure there were mistakes made, as with any organization, but constantly replaying them does not get us a better future. However, those mistakes are not automatically forgiven, should problems arise. I think that is is position of many, what are called ‘front office’ supporters on this blog.
Robert says
So Ryan West’s new title is Director of Player Personnel. To whom does he report? He was reporting to Jesse Buss, who is the Director of Scouting. However the Director of Player Personnel is a larger title and one that normally would have the Scouting department underneath of him. Does Jesse now report to Ryan? Of course we also still have Mitch (GM) and Jim (Executive VP Of Basketball Operations and Grand Puba). So if you are an agent, who do you call? If you want a trade, who do you call? I saw no clarification on the org chart (or the family tree) in any of the articles. I like Ryan West, but the current management fiasco continues.
That said my light at the end of the tunnel is getting even brighter. I will go on record as follows. This is a major transitional move, and I am predicting a clean sweep in the not too distant future. Jim Buss, Mitch, and Byron will all exit no later than the end of 17, and perhaps earlier. Ryan West is the heir apparent.
Darius Soriano says
Why has almost every, even non-plussed, argument halfway noting the team may improve over the short term been labeled as something a “front office supporter” is spewing? What exactly is a “front office supporter”, anyway? Almost every person I’ve seen on this site who states the Lakers FO hasn’t been awful and has made some good decisions has also balanced those comments with things they think the FO did not do well. Yet, every time those guys comment, more than one person will derisively refer to them as front office supporters unless they repeat their critique of the FO in every comment.
Fact is, the Lakers are bad for a variety of reasons, some of them their own doing, some of them bad luck, some of them from the natural cycle of players aging and not being able to be replaced easily. If it were only one of the above things that went wrong, I’d imagine the team would still be competitive. Fact is, though, it’s all three and the team has been awful. Getting good again will take time. In the meantime, I’m sure there will be no shortage of fans who complain anyway. Thank goodness for them, because how would we know things are bad without them??!!
Darius Soriano says
Robert,
Serious question: why is it a fiasco and why does it matter who he reports to? Jim Buss is the top official on the basketball side, but in almost every organization it is the general manager who handles the day to day things like “trade calls” and what not. Then, when a decision is made, input is gathered from the people who have such clout to garner input and a decision is made. Mitch and Jim have gone on record saying that they typically come to an agreement on every decision made, and that Mitch is the guy who normally makes the final call unless Jim feels strongly otherwise. In those cases, they will discuss further and come to a decision both sides are comfortable with. This has been spelled out either directly or via inference, several times with on record comments from Mitch Kupchak. Not sure why this matters unless, as a person who has clear biases, they want it to matter.
Robert says
Darius: When someone is “promoted” it generally means they are “moving up” in the organization, which means they are now equal to r greater than some of their peers. I would like to know how this applies to Jesse. He was Ryan’s boss. Is he still? I think this is relevant. I think he no longer reports to Jesse, which means that this is more than just a little change. It would support my theory that this is setting the stage for the larger moves I am anticipating (and yes hoping for). I also think the timing of this is a little weird. You promote a guy to head of personnel, right after all the personnel moves are made? That’s almost like hiring a coach after the roster is crafted for someone else (twice).
Darius Soriano says
Robert,
Seems you’re on some sort of short term logic. You say “I also think the timing of this is a little weird. You promote a guy to head of personnel, right after all the personnel moves are made? ” All the personnel moves made? So this is the Lakers’ roster forever and ever? Come on, now.
If you want to reach for something to try and bash, at least reach in a realistic direction. The above is silly. He is 36 years old and analysis of players and ways to try improve a team are ongoing discussions all the time. In other words, “all the personnel moves have been made” in the same way that all my grocery shopping is done. Maybe for this moment, but surely not forever.
Also, my guess is he no longer reports to Jesse Buss. However, both Ryan and Jesse now have “Director” in their titles. I’d imagine they’re more “peers” on the same level than Ryan somehow being elevated over Jesse in some sort of meaningful way. This is just my two cents.
david h says
hey darius: you’re two cents won’t buy yesterday’s bread but anything with the west labeling, i’ll buy.
thx for the write up on ryan west.
Go lakers
Darius Soriano says
Still a Triangle Fan,
Haha! Who said anything about “equal”? I know I didn’t. Try again, though, champ.
Justin says
@Anonymous, To say we don’t know if Randle or Russell are good is fair. Problem is you asked us to judge the FO and if we do that we have to guess what they will become (mostly based off experts opinions).
Houston has not won a championship and not even gotten that far. And remember their GM was about to be fired (according to him) until the Harden trade. Which is the only trade I could find where you give up a blue chip star and do not get one blue chip piece back in the last 20 years (and I looked at every trade I could find from Shaq, to Love, etc). So if you problem with the Lakers is that they can’t do the impossible well you aren’t having realistic hopes. And by the way, they got Dwight by swinging for the fences in FA because they had a young team (kind of where the Lakers are right now if Russell become Harden, one of his comps). Weird you would choose that team. And if you look at my previous post I explain why signing Monroe won’t work for a trade. His value would be in decline unless the Lakers somehow got Ibaka type (super mobile shot blocker that can stretch the floor and cover up for Monroes mistakes). And if you think Monroe had higher value, look what the Pistons got from him. They knew he would leave as a FA (Van Gundy said as much on Zack Lowes podcast), and told his agent to find a deal. They valued the cap space over anything his agent could find. A declining Monroe does not get you an equal player. FO supporters as you call them think in many ways. GMs are on record saying that building from the middle is the hardest thing to do.
As for Bledsoe, I said he needs to be in the top 3 on a championship team. Let’s say you have Durant, Westbrook, and Bledsoe (traded for Ibaka). Would you call them a top 5 contender? Well you are right at the cap with him. The point being you don’t max a guy out unless he can be that guy because building enough good players around a sub all star becomes so much harder. So Bledsoe absolutely kills the Suns chances at a championship, not getting Durant or LMA. If all you want to be is a fringe contender then I agree, go get Bledsoe or Monroe. If you want to build a real championship team you need to be patient and go after the right players.
I agree with your last point. It is hard to get people to leave. But again the Lakers are building through the draft, people just don’t seem to realize it and think they are only building through FA. If they were they would have traded Randle and Russell and probably Clarkson to get players that would help them now to lure FA. It is just that everyone gets focused on FA because of their failure there. The lose of next years draft pick will be tough, but it was made in what the Lakers thought at the time was the next dynasty. Injuries and bad luck happens. Next years draft is oddly only a 3 player draft and not deep, so the Lakers really don’t lose out that big. In that sense it is good luck for them. But that doesn’t mean they can’t A) buy a pick, B) trade for a pick, or C) make a Clarkson like pick with the 2nd rounder. Probably all three are unlikely but again you want to judge them as failures before seeing what actually happens.
Darius Soriano says
Also, if you’re going to try and come at me by calling me things like naive, you better come with some evidence to back it up. Or I’ll just roast you.
Anonymous says
The Lakers have struggled due to leadership’s miscalculations and bad judgment. I think this is a fact that even the staunchest status quo advocates would have to agree with.
1) A segment of Lakers fans would prefer that a different individual lead the organization out of this current situation. The feeling is that if an individual is held accountable for their decisions and those decisions have not worked then it’s time for a change
2) Another segment of fans choose to minimize these same miscalculations/decisions. Their response is to rally around leadership. Risks needed to be made and leadership made them. The ability to make the decision is what is important — since you can’t control the outcome it’s not necessary to focus on results.
_
I see so many comments made against those of us who would prefer that Jim just be an owner and turn the Basketball Operations responsibilities over to someone more qualified. The reason I don’t trust him is not because he wears a baseball cap or other silly reason– it’s because his decisions haven’t worked. To me that’s legitimate and defensible. Yet we are labeled as being advocates of mediocrity or as complainers who can’t see the pluses in place today — we’re in the middle of a rebuild and we should stay the course
I don’t agree. We’re at the beginning of a long rebuild process and I think the path that leadership has chosen will make it even longer. The sooner Jeanie takes her leadership responsibility to heart the better.
Justin says
@triangle, I am fine with people pointing out problems the Lakers made. No team is infallible. The problem is people don’t actually get the problems. Nash was a good trade at the time that didn’t work out. And the Dwight thing is a bunch of fans wishing they could have gotten something decent in return for him. True is, by the trade deadline the Lakers couldn’t have gotten anything for A) a rental player who was leaving for Houston or Dallas (so why would either of those teams trade anything remotely valuable for him), and B) a player who flip flopped daily.
Other problems I hear people complain about is
1) They have never been this bad. Ignoring that the CBA was designed to make teams rebuild and that no team in NBA HISTORY has rebuilt a bad lottery team to contender except for the Spurs in the Duncan pick. This is basically people mad at the league without realizing. There is nothing Jim or Mitch can do about this.
2) They don’t like the fact that the Lakers go after Melo, LMA, or DJ because they feel embarrassed when the Lakers don’t get them and thus harm the brand. Really people are just mad they can’t say the team they love is so beloved by every player they can pick and choose who to get. Get over your ego. In a decade if the Lakers are a championship, no one will care or remember about the people you failed to get. Barkley recent mentioned how he was almost a Laker. That happened this summer and most can’t even recall that.
3) Lakers didn’t go after RFA (which in their history they have never done). Main reason being those players are next to impossible to get. See Elton Brand signing away from the Clippers only to be forced back on a team friendly deal. The only player available this summer that they could have gotten was Monroe. A player that just spent 5 years on a loser and wanted to go to a winning team. Somehow if the Lakers would have visited him first he wouldn’t care about winning because…I can’t even remember the argument there. Guys don’t make their decision because a team went to dinner with someone else first. That is absurd. What grown man does that? That is just a media spin. If I was offered a job at Apple, Microsoft, and Intel and I wanted to go to Apple but they meet with someone else first and my meeting was schedule two days later, you think I am going to Intel because they called me up first? Let’s ignore the fact that I have a family to think about. You really believe this. Who sounds naive when it comes to huge decisions.
All the issues most fans think are a problem are perceived. I never actually here people throw up a real problem. By the way, the Lakers have always swung for the fences. It is the reason they have so many championships. Now suddenly people hate this idea and want to build a 45 win team just so they can watch decent basketball.
Joel says
Anon @ 2:58 is me.
rr says
Houston has not won a championship and not even gotten that far
—
Well, since Howard went there they have won 110 games and made a WCF. The Lakers have won 48 games in the same time frame.
Like I have said, most of your arguments are based on hope (Randle and Russell will be really good) and hypotheticals/presumptions (Bledsoe’s contract kills the Suns; doing what Houston did with Harden is impossible, which ignores the CBA factors that made it possible and may make it possible again) rationalizations (injuries and bad luck happen) and unflattering characterizations (people don’t realize that the Lakers are building through the draft). That is where the FO defense case is right now.
I would be more on board with the be bad/draft guys/then sign elite FAs if the Lakers actually had all their picks–and that is before you get to the CBA and teams locking up guys through their primes.
The post at 258 PM is a good one.
And again, I am OK giving the FO more time. But I don’t see a very good case for them right now. D’Angelo Russell and Julius Randle are the only guys who can change that.
.
Justin says
@Anonymous, Can’t find a flaw in the argument so you attack me personally. I am not mad. By the way all the Jim haters out there, you will get your wish. There is no way the Lakers make the WCF in 2 years. Even if they get Durant or Westbrook you need time to gel and development curves on the extreme for guys like Russell or Randle to be championship ready that fast. So it is odd you scream fire Jim when he basically told you when he is leaving.
Darius Soriano says
I’m basically with RR in that, at some point, the Lakers need to find a way to get an elite player in their grasp. once they do that, the path to real, sustained improvement, becomes easily recognizable to pretty much everyone. If that’s with Russell or Randle, great. If it’s by trading for a guy, that’s great too, if it’s in FA, even better (since you can assume they’ll keep some/all of their young prospects in the process).
Until then, the Lakers are what they are — a team that’s been bad that is looking to get good.
To add to all this, though, I think the FO has shown they can make some reasonably well received moves by using the assets they have in hand. They did turn Bynum into Dwight Howard and turned future draft picks and a trade exception into Steve Nash (who, while aged, did go to the ASG the previous year and post a 20 PER). They also turned cap space into Roy Hibbert. In previous seasons they turned Kwame into Pau Gasol, Radman into Shannon Brown, and Brian Cook/Mo Evans into Trevor Ariza. These are all trades where the Lakers came out ahead on talent/fit.
Some of these moves did not work out and they’ve made other moves (both in terms of player acquisition and in hiring coaches — specifically Mike Brown and Byron Scott) which were not good/not inspiring. However you want to balance these are up to you. I tend to think there’s enough evidence to say these guys know what they’re doing in more ways than they do not. However, my point above still stands. Getting a really good talent to propel the team forward will be necessary to contend for the playoffs, much less deep runs that can lead to a championship.
rr says
Can’t find a flaw in the argument so you attack me personally
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Not sure if this means me or not, but if it does, I didn’t attack you personally, and I pointed out four separate flaws in the argument. Also, frankly, I don’t think anyone here has attacked you personally. As Joel suggested at 258 PM, the disagreement revolves around how much people want to put the current bad situation on the FO’s decisions, and how much of it people want to attribute to structural factors and bad luck. Many of the former want Jim gone now. Almost all of the latter want him to stick around. No one is being totally irrational and no one is supporting mediocrity. That’s it.
Also, we don’t know for sure that Jim will be gone in two years without a WCF appearance. As I have said, if the Lakers, go, say, 42-40 in 2016-17 and Russell and Randle look good, then I think that there will be some pressure on Jeanie, from both internal and external sources, to let Jim/Mitch stick around to “finish the job.” But if they go 29-53 and Russell and Randle do not look like they were the right picks, then that will be that.
Darius Soriano says
You didn’t or couldn’t figure out what was of greater importance.
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It’s not the point to determine what’s of greater importance. That’s for people who want to assign blame or dole out credit. I’m not really about either when it comes to this situation. You, on the other hand, are. So rather than just sit and try to pick apart my statements or infer things that aren’t there, you could just give your opinion on the topic at hand rather than trying to call me names. Even though I pretty much know what your opinion is..
As for my twitter account, I can help you so you don’t see the tweets anymore. That won’t be a problem, just let me know your handle. Haha.
Darius Soriano says
RR,
Someone tried to claim Justin was, in fact, Jim Buss and did so in a baiting way. I deleted the comment.
Justin says
@rr no not you. The comment was deleted probably by Darius who doesn’t want it getting out of hand. It basically implied I was Jim Buss.
Look there is nothing wrong with building the way you want vs the approach the Lakers are currently taking. Each has flaws. But people attack Jim for the job he has done and really there is zero reason to. He wants to build through the draft and steal a FA. There is nothing wrong with that (and I have made my arguments as to why I agree or am fine with it). But again people want him fired. That is not the same as saying I wish he would do things this way.
He has said he would step down if they weren’t contending (WCF) in his words. And Jeanie has confirmed she will hold him to it. So there is no way he keeps his job without getting there. And most fans will bring that up the year of it putting more pressure that he resigns (see below).
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/jeanie-buss-says-jim-buss-will-keep-his-promise-to-resign-if-he-can-t-right-the-lakers-210309043.html
Craig W. says
The only reason I can see for fans taking these comments so personal, is they are so frustrated they don’t get to make the decisions the Lakers make themselves.
I have lived through the 60s and that was a house of horrors – ask Jerry West – and the 70s after Wilt – we swung in just about every direction available and the only mitigating factor was we had Kareem playing for us to backstop all the player/coach/owner failure. The 80s were simply Camelot and we shouldn’t minimize just how special and rare they were. The 90s were a black hole, but we got Shaq part way through and – like Kareem in the 70s – we had hope. The 00s started and ended so high, but the middle was really crap, however we had Kobe and 81 to fall back upon. The 10s began on a high note, but the CBA and ownership change made things difficult. Social media – like this blog – make it almost impossible to live up to expectations.
There is simply no easy path, but we are seeing a glimmering of hope. Sure we can stomp on it and say it isn’t here yet, but I have learned life is short enough that this constant need to blame or see the negative side doesn’t yield a better life. Celebrate our hope. We actually can do this – and have done it before, repeatedly. Very few professional franchises can say this.
Baylor Fan says
In one of the articles about Ryan West it sounded like the Lakers made the promotion to make sure he stays with the Lakers. For example, Sacramento showed interest in him. Jerry praises the GSW FO for having many voices involved in their decisions and it looks like the Lakers are doing the same.
rr says
Craig,
And the only reason I can see for people defending the FO so vigorously is that they are fooling themselves into thinking that they are part of the Lakers organization, when they are, in fact, just anonymous, mostly uninformed, fans.
Seriously: internet mind-reading groups of people is, at best, silly. I have not heard anyone here nominate him or herself to make basketball decisions for the Lakers. I am not sure why you focus your fandom so intently on defending the FO day after day, but the why is not really relevant. This is a what and how discussion.
As to the timeline:
60s: Before my time, but the Lakers were contenders most of the decade
70s: Also before my time, but the Lakers won a title, made three Finals, and were pretty good again at the end of the decade even before Magic joined Kareem.
80s: Yes
90s: The Lake Show and Club Ced teams were far better than the current team, and laid the
groundwork for the 3Peat by contributing to getting Shaq.
00s: Titles at the beginning and end, and Kobe present throughout. And the teams in the middle were, again, mostly far better than the team is now.
10s: The plan of course was for the current era to be the Chris Paul/Dwight Howard era, with Kobe’s farewell thrown in, and the hope was that Paul and Howard would get Kobe and Dr. Buss one more trip to the top of the mountain. For a variety of well-documented reasons, it didn’t happen, and people differ, again, on how much the string of post-Veto disasters should be put on the FO and how much should be put on the CBA/bad luck. But as Joel said, the FO’s big decisions simply haven’t worked, and as DS says, the Lakers are simply a team that’s been bad—(I would add: the worst teams the franchise has ever fielded) looking to get good.
So, while the net and social media do change how we follow the Lakers, they don’t change what we follow, and if the Lakers of the 1980s or the 1990s had been this bad, and had had no stars on which to hang solid hopes, fan discontentment would have been just as pronounced.