Considering I run a Lakers’ site, it’s probably a bit strange I write so little about Kobe Bryant. Sure, he gets mentioned in game previews and recaps (like Thursday night’s) or an occasional analysis piece, but singling him out for a long form post on whatever relevant topic isn’t something I do very often.
Maybe it’s because after 20 years there’s little new to say. Or maybe it’s just because, after 20 years of Kobe being Kobe — and all that comes with that — I have tired of the hot takes, brush back, manic praise, and furious head nodding that comes from anything written about the man.
Kobe is an interesting subject to discuss, however. When done thoughtfully — or even when it’s not — it drives conversation and allows zealots, haters, and everyone in between a chance to speak their mind on the man who, more so than any great player I can recall, is so polarizing.
I bring all this up because this week was when Kobe’s #NBARank was disclosed on ESPN. He came in at 93 and…well, who cares. I don’t. My take can be summarized here in three simple tweets and that’s basically all I have to say on that.
The more interesting thing that came out of this Kobe discussion, for me at least, was a companion piece to the ranking, written by ESPN’s Baxter Holmes. Holmes revealed the “first in a series on how league insiders view the Lakers’ rebuild” which was focused on Kobe and how he’s viewed*.
The picture was not pretty and, via anonymous quotes and their implications, Kobe was shredded. A sampling of the quotes range from the Lakers needing to “get rid of Kobe by whatever means necessary” when his contract expires this summer to one executive saying the team had “created a monster” with Kobe via how they have managed to be so intertwined with him and how he’s become vital to the team’s brand.
The more interesting excerpts, however, go back to the familiar theme of what kind of teammate Kobe is. Considering those being quoted had already levied some pretty harsh critiques of Kobe, you can only imagine how this part went as well. An offering from the piece:
Many insiders doubt Bryant will take a backseat to anyone, let alone young players. “That’s why I wouldn’t want him on the team,” one executive said, “because I don’t think he’d accept that role.” “When has he ever embraced anything even close to that over the last two-to-three years?” one scout asked. “I don’t think you’re going to be able to change him to be in a role that he’s never been in.”
First, it’s important to note these are only opinions. They’re also not new ones or even that radical. If someone is going to be critical of Kobe, there’s really two (general) paths to take. The first is that he’s a selfish player (and all which comes along with that label). The second, and somewhat connected, is he’s a bad teammate who wants things done his way and will proceed to act on those wants even if there might be a different (and better) way.
This isn’t really news and, for the most part, probably doesn’t require comment. Folks are fine to agree or disagree based on whatever criteria they want; with whatever amount of context they want. Welcome to the internet. No big deal. Honestly.
For me, though, these quotes also symbolize somewhat of a misnomer regarding Kobe. And I think it comes from, at least partially, not following his career or all of his on the record comments over his 19+ seasons as closely as some others might.
Basically, Kobe isn’t looking to adjust. He’s looking for someone to force him to adjust. Kobe came up in an era, and on a team, where nothing was really handed to him. He was a rookie on a team which just signed Shaq and had won 53 games the season before he was drafted. That team was going to be good with or without Kobe. They had Eddie Jones at his spot and Nick Van Exel as the other guard. They had Ced Ceballos and other good role players. And, again, they just signed Shaq.
Early in his career, what Kobe seemed to learn, then, was if he was going to become the player he wanted to be, he was going to have to impose himself on a situation which didn’t necessarily need him to be great for them to achieve great things. This led to him taking shots in playoff series which he probably had no business taking. It led to him dropping quotes about what he thought he could achieve in his career. And it led to a sh*tload of work being put in to reach those goals.
For better or for worse, Kobe has since led a career defined by this same approach. As much as he’s provided soundbites about “letting the game come” to him, that’s really a bunch of coach-speak BS. Kobe wants to impose his will on the game. On his opponents. And, yes, even on his teammates. It’s not as sinister as it sounds. If he can put his imprint on the thing he’s trying to affect, he seems to think it’s going to work out in a positive way. History, for the most part, has proven him right.
This brings us back to the quotes above. While I think Kobe is more willing to bend towards the young players on the roster — especially as he recognizes his game is diminishing — I also think he’d like nothing more than for one (or all three of the Clarkson, Randle, Russell trio) to take the reins from him and force him to be slotted accordingly. This is, after all, what he did early in his career and is, seemingly, what he would respond to now. In fact, he said so himself:
“You have to be able to assert yourself, especially on a team that I’m playing on — especially on a team I’m playing on. Because I don’t want chumps, I don’t want pushovers, and if you’re a chump and a pushover, I will run over you. It’s important for him to have that toughness and to say, ‘I believe in myself. I can step up, I can make these plays, I can perform.’ I think that is very, very important.”
Those quotes are from last year when Kobe was talking about Jeremy Lin. Kobe was praising his teammate noting that Lin had done exactly what he needed to do by taking control of a late game possession in a contest against the Clippers.
I’ve no clue how the final year (or years) of Kobe’s career will play out. Like the previous 19 seasons, I’m sure there will be ups and downs, wins and losses, praise and criticism. But, if I had my guess, he’d love for one last run into the post season so he could make his mark. And, while some might find it fantastic for him to have one last game winner or triumphant moment, I think he might find it poetic if it ended with him watching one of his young teammates waive him off to take the final shot instead.
*I know some Lakers fans are taking shots at Holmes for penning his piece, but I don’t see any issues with it. While I know the angle of harsh critique is tiring to Lakers’ fans, the idea of how Kobe is viewed by other league officials really is interesting to me. Holmes did throw in some opinion of his own, but, guess what we all do that. The fact some might disagree with him is, well, par for the course when you write about sports or, specifically, the Lakers.
sirvancelot says
A thoughtful piece well written. I also don’t have a huge problem with Holmes aggregating a bunch of (fairly tired) takes on KB that reek of jealousy. Again, just another day on the internet. But I found it pretty galling that the beat reporter – not in a quote but in his own words – would levy this judgement on a Hall of Fame player who clearly can still be effective in the league. The last few years have been bad no doubt, but how can you possibly say this:
“At this point in his career, Bryant’s presence on the court hurts the Lakers more than it helps.”
It’s just a blanket statement that ignores context and the fact that we finally have some emerging talent around him in his later years. I was offended by it. I hope Kobe freezes this dude out.
Thomas Rickard says
Thank you, a very objective article, I’ve been a Lakers fan since they came to town, through ups and downs, and the last 20 have pretty good for that span, unfortunately people forget about other down times, even the year after we got Kareem perhaps the greatest ever, what would be said today if LBJ got traded and the team didn’t make the playoffs, the Lakers ar on the right path and regardless of whether this is Kobe’s last year is see great things in the future
Craig W. says
No really great people are without flaws – it comes with the notoriety. What I want to know is, if Kobe is so selfish, just how did he accumulate so many assists in his career? Sure, he had very good teammates, but he had to at least pass them the ball to get an assist. As the most prolific scorer/assist player in NBA history, this combination points to someone who wants to win and will take the most direct route to getting there.
nimble says
Thanks Darius,despite the haters,Kobe is a magnificent treat to to all real basketball fans.
Oldtimer says
Whatever they say, here is what Laker fans remember about KOBE’s achievements: 5 rings, 7 Finals, Olympic gold medalist, one NBA Season MVP, multiple MVP’s in ASG, 3rd highest scorer of all time and still playing after several injuries .’nough said for the haters.
Anon says
I can’t wait for Kobe to prove all of these naysayers wrong.
don ford says
I am in both camps, and pretty much always have been.
I HATE having Kobe on our team … his selfish personality is a chore to put up with, his domineering playing style mucks up team flow, he shoots when he shouldn’t, his later-career defense insulting to team play.
It’s AMAZING having this guy as a Laker. All time great hands down, probably very, very high up on that list. The unsurpassed footwork and fundamentals. The legendary singleminded training persona. Filling up the all-time stat books. The last second nervy shots sunk home.
He annoys the hell out of me and I am mesmerized when I watch him. It’s been irritating as hell having him on this team for so many years, and I also wouldn’t have it any other way.
I always say that Kobe is THE all-time classic, highest archetype of this classic dynamic when you are watching a selfish, but amazing, scorer: “no! No! NO! NOOO! ….. oh…. man, what a great shot ….”
Robert says
“Kobe isn’t looking to adjust. He’s looking for someone to force him to adjust.” Agreed – and I do not see anyone who is going to do that – this year.
“he’d love for one last run into the post season so he could make his mark. ” This is somewhat what Phil Jackson is probably thinking.
If Kobe plays injury free (relatively) and well, then 21 + 22 are a distinct possibility. A FO nightmare – but a dream for others.
A Horse With No Name says
The never ending stream of bile dripping from the great maw of espn about Kobe and the Lakers written by various underpaid scribes, just happy to have a paying journalism job, is no accident. They are told to write these hit pieces because they get hits. That’s how it works. Here’s an idea: don’t click on them, don’t read them. They aren’t worthy of commentary.
Mid-Wilshire says
I was a bit surprised and even dismayed at Baxter Holmes’s article. I say this not because of its exclusively negative tenor. I’ve seen such “hit pieces” before, especially about Kobe who is, as we all know, a polarizing figure who has inspired extraordinary amounts of vitriol, resentment, and envy around the league for years.
Rather, I say this because his article offends two of the most sacred rules of journalism:
1) never base an article exclusively on anonymous sources; if a source has a legitimate reason for anonymity, then state the reason; otherwise, name the source; if the source refuses to have his / her named used, then don’t quote that source; otherwise this becomes the equivalent of hit-and-run journalism and the sources in the process end up appearing rather cowardly;
2) always try to offer a balanced set of opinions; if someone feels negatively about an individual or an issue, then say so in the first paragraph and offer a contrasting, more positive opinion in the 2nd paragraph to provide a sense of balance; otherwise, you do in fact run the risk of having your article devolve into nothing more than a hit piece which is generally regarded as irresponsible journalism.
Holmes would not have received a passing grade from me (I have a Master’s degree in Creative Writing from a major university) or from any of the other journalism or creative writing departments with which I am familiar.
I would have had him re-write the piece. In short, this — from a journalistic standpoint — should never have been published.
Craig W. says
“..a FO nightmare…”
That my business should have such a nightmare. Whatever your take on Kobe Bryant, he draws eyeballs like meat going bad draws flies. The man is simply a publicity machine and the NBA certainly knows this. However you want to spin this, all of it is good for a Laker franchise having among the highest seat prices around.
Now..on to the basketball. Just win baby! For Oakland Raider fans – this is also the mantra for Kobe Bean Bryant. With the possibility of three new faces to take the Lakers forward, I would say the future is in good hands…and the present is taken care of by KB.
This looks to be a fairly fun season to watch. Go Lakers!
Trent says
– From strictly a basketball perspective, Kobe at 40% of your cap space is a nightmare for 29 of the 30 FO’s in the league.
– Kobe at 15 – 20% of the cap is still a nightmare, especially if you have an FO and a coach that defer to him.
– Kobe at 10% of your cap is likely agreeing to a complimentary player and as such is doable.
There’s no doubt that Kobe was extended because he was the key to season ticket and TWC revenues. At some point the loss of on floor revenue (from poor performing teams) outweighs Kobe’s off floor value. There is an intersection of those two revenue streams and I think what most Lakers fans see is that at this current salary Kobe is approaching a net negative to the franchise.
Franklin Ashley says
Another “I know what’s better for Kobe than Kobe or the Lakers management. The posers haven’t seen misery of sad Lakers teams, and with new players who’s to say what effec ty I’ve Ness K24 will have, there are too many unknowns so stop p lease,with this boring guessing.
No Name Joe says
I don’t care what people say about Kobe. He has been the Lakers for a long time. I hope he has one more amazing run.
Prob says
Predictions are great. And in theory, they make sense. I guess. But its IN theory. And predictions/projections are just that, there the furthest thing from the truth. I still don’t think the coaches know his right position in the NBA. Is he a real 1, or is more of a 2 than he is a 1? I bet he knows the answer to that question, but because the NBA is driven by the media, predictions etc, you can litterly tweet a starting line up, and if it starts trending before you know it the coach is basing his philosophy’s off of your tweet.
My point is, the league has pushed Russell in to being a point guard, when in reality he’s probably more of a 2 guard. He’s too good of a scorer to let that go to waste. This line up with Russell, Clarkson, Kobe is actually hurting his growth. He needs and opputuinty to be the main guy right away. Too many other players in the backcourt that play the same position as him or can’t play off him, is only going to shadow his strengths.
Figure out what his real position is and work around him. Than maybe you see the supper star projections come in to fusion
Robert says
“The man is simply a publicity machine ” No disagreement there. And there is no spin coming from me. I would welcome years 21 + 22 as I have always made clear. If you want to argue about KB, there are many others on here who have made their negative opinions known. Let’s all hope that Kobe has a healthy and successful year. If he does, it will be extremely interesting to see how Kobe and the FO handle things. If Kobe wants to keep playing – what are we going to do?
As to “fun” – well the FO opted not to extend that contract.
LakerLifer says
This is the article that SHOULD have appeared on ESPN.
Love him or hate him, Kobe is going to be Kobe…and frankly, I can respect that.
And a quick thanks to Darius for having the mobile version of this site! Easily the fastest loading Laker site I’ve encountered.
BlizzardOfOz says
So ESPN doesn’t like Kobe and is happy to print gossipy substance-free attacks on him from anonymous sources? Is Baxter Holmes the zombie Henry Abbott? This story would have been stale 10 years ago.
KenOak says
It’s probably no secret that I didn’t care for, or agree with, the article. I don’t think you can be this selfish caricature that many so called journalists have painted of Kobe Bryant, and win 5 championships or dish out 6000 assists. It’s a tired meme.
I love this piece that Darius wrote because it has what Holme’s article lacked. Balance. Good Kobe and bad Kobe. I agree with Darius’ take too. If a young player, or three, steps up and takes the reins this year…then you’ll see Kobe step back. If they can’t, don’t, or won’t then you’ll probably see Kobe hoisting 20 shots a game. Somehow…I think that Clarkson and Randle will be putting up something like 15 shots each this year. Add another 10 from Russell and the fact that he’s going to do most of the ball handling? Well, I think Kobe will be around 15-17 shots a game. That’s not bad.
Here’s to a good year folks! I’m pretty excited this year to see our young guns grow.
Clay Bertrand says
Wasn’t Baxter Holmes previous job writing for the BOSTON GLOBE covering the green clad turds known as the Celtics??? Ironic choice by ESPNegative for a Lakers coverage guy. The Irony here being that there IS NO IRONY.
It’s almost as if some crappy media group from an insignificant State on the East Coast is just publishing poorly researched verbal vomit to trash the West and the Lakers as CLICK BAIT while they make whine from the sour grapes of being Knicks fans. Could that be the case??? Is that even POSSIBLE????? I ALMOST think there could be like…….maybe an EAST COAST BIAS at play here……But NO. It can’t be THAT!!! I mean, ESPN is a class organization that never favors the EAST over the WEST. Shame on me for even IMAGINING such a slight could occur. It must be that ESPN just hired the best qualified writer they could get to cover the Lakers. That MUST be it. Maybe next they can hire Vic “THE BRICK” Jacobs to cover the Celtics???
harold says
I just wanted to address one thing: assists are not a measure of selflessness. They’re still stats. Just because a player doesn’t have many assists doesn’t mean that he is selfless and makes people around him better, just means that the people around him move better when he has the ball. The fact that somebody has a ton of assists doesn’t make them selfless – it just means that person held on to the ball for so god darn long that somebody on the other team thought it’d be fine to leave his man.
Of course i’m way exaggerating, but I wish people would stop correlating assists with selflessness.
Darius Soriano says
Clay,
Holmes also worked for the LA Times before the Globe.
LKK says
Kobe’s not perfect…lots of flaws there. He’s damn entertaining, though! Last year he had a great game versus Toronto in which he spearheaded the Lakers to victory with a triple double that included 31 points. 31 points is a pretty fair nights work, but once upon a time this man put up 50 points more than that in a single game against the same franchise. That’s part of the reason I am amazed by his game, past and present.
Articles like the one by Holmes usually focus on the Mamba’s perceived selfishness on the court and the fact that he takes up so much of the Lakers’ cap space. I think NBA management has a extreme dislike for the way Kobe’s refusal to willingly take less money in order to help his front office “team-build” has caused other superstars such as LBJ and CP3 to adopt a similar stance. Oh, and those two gentlemen just happen to be the prez and vice prez of the Players Association.
I totally get it that Kobe is a polarizing figure who generates strong feelings from his detractors and supporters. He’ll never be like management’s golden boy, Tim Duncan, who at his own accord takes tons less money to allow his team the maneuverability to sign better talent. Which sounds like collusion to me. Nor will most acknowledge that it was the Achilles injury that has defined his present narrative. Those are the points of view that I find a bit simplistic.
Kobe will be gone soon enough, too soon in my opinion. Like Darius tweeted, I too will rely on my own memories of the many amazing moments he helped create. I don’t care what anyone else thinks. His has been an awesome career, and it’s still unfolding.
Anonymous says
Anyone checking the box scores for other top picks? I’m starting to feel that Russell is either not all that or he going to take a few years to get there. I’m seeing other players that are making an impact now.
Did Jim and Mitch make a mistake?
R says
I haven’t always been Kobes biggest fan but this Holmes article is such a steaming pile of dreck it would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
Honestly, I need to take a shower after having read it.
rubenowski says
Oh man…sorry to be off topic but I’m like drooling over Randle. This guy is our future. If he develops a jumper–WHEN he develops a jumper–he will be GREAT. (anti-jinx)
Mac says
I feel like there is no longer any connection between Kobe Bryant, the 37-year player who has not been particularly relevant for 3 seasons and is playing on a rebuilding team, and “Kobe Bryant”, the straw boogeyman that ESPN delights on building up and tearing down in order to troll Kobe fans, who they know are legion.
Kobe Bryant is a guy whose large salary is irrelevant because his team isn’t contending for a title whether he makes $25 million or $10 million this season. This team is not one non-max starter away from being a championship contender, it is three superstars away from it. But “Kobe Bryant’s” large salary is relevant because it symbolizes everything that is wrong about “Kobe Bryant” whose mantra is “what’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is mine”. Kobe Bryant is a sympathetic figure, a lion in winter and a surefire Hall of Famer who everyone should be pulling for to have one more quality season before he calls it a historic career. “Kobe Bryant” is a cartoon villain who ESPN gleefully anticipates getting destroyed and humiliated by noble superstars like LeBron (my, how the worm has turned), KD and Steph Curry in the final act. Kobe Bryant shouldn’t be ranked the 94th best player in the league, because nobody knows what he can do anymore and anyone who claims otherwise is not an expert at basketball, he is a fortuneteller. “Kobe Bryant” has to be ranked low enough to be demeaning to the man and set off controversy among the fans, because that is what generates flame wars and eyeballs which literally is money in the bank for espn.com.
Articles like Holmes’ don’t say anything about Kobe. They say volumes about writers like Holmes, who know that very soon, their meal ticket of trolling Kobe fans will be punched out and then they will actually have to come up with ideas for articles. To me, these last few anti-Kobe screeds are cynical and pathetic, like a gold digger trying to empty her sugar daddy’s bank accounts and safety deposit boxes when she discovers he just had a stroke, knowing the jig is about to be up. We will all be sad when Kobe Bryant retires, but we won’t be sad when writers about “Kobe Bryant” have to call it quits.
drrayeye says
The future of the Lakers and Kobe Bryant are not the same subject. Some of us yearn for the day when we don’t have to consider Kobe in any way at all–and focus on the future greatness of the Lakers basketball team. .
Craig W. says
I am proud to say I didn’t ‘click’ on the Holmes article, therefore, I can’t really comment. It apparently follows ESPNs previously, mostly biased, articles. Glad not to pay to be an ‘Insider”.
Snarky George says
Going all in on an aging superstar, in a hard cap league, has produced the worst record in franchise history in consecutive seasons.
While I appreciate Kobe”s contributions — I am a Lakers fan first and a Kobe fan second. The FO embraced Kobe as a security blanket for cover while they figured out what to do. The plan failed as Kobe’s age/mileage caught up with him (surprise). As far as buying time to come up a strategy to improve the franchise, well the plan of signing multiple elite free agents hasn’t worked out too well either.
FO supporters point to the kids as proof management knows what they are doing. Well the kids better pan out because we paid for them by losing 116 games these last two years.
Todd says
I knew Kobe fans were well, fanatical. But I never thought I would see folks support him to the extent of putting Kobe’s interests above the team’s.
You are all aware that Kobe is 37 years old and hasn’t contributed to a meaningful Lakers campaign in three years, right? I am at the point that I want the team to start winning and stop deferring to Kobe as if he is the superstar he once was.
Does that mean I hate Kobe? No, it means I am a Lakers fan.
Joel says
Mac absolutely nailed it with that post.
Whatever you think about Kobe, the idea that his personality, his perception around the league, or his contract are still such pressing issues in 2015 is really bizarre. I think we all have a pretty good of idea of who and what Kobe is by now, but it’s good that we have a few “anonymous sources” to throw in their 2 cents now that it doesn’t really matter one way or the other.
Robert says
Todd: “fanatical” We still are ! That said – as you should know – I was against the extension’s timing and size. Kobe is not the problem. His contract and other related issues are simply a symptom.
Snarky: “point to the kids as proof” I agree with you there. How can the kids be proof of anything (good or bad) at this point? – let’s wait and see.
drray: ” focus on the future greatness ” I do not see Kobe getting in the way at this point. Again – he is a symptom. Can you imagine for a moment what this year would be like without him? Have we not seen that for most of the last 2 years?
Kobe/Byron: Once again – I see this year (like I did last) as a bashing contest on these two important figures of our team. I would just like to remind everyone that KB was presented a contract for $48 million for a two year extension, while he was recovering from his Achilles
injury. Byron was given a guarantee of 3 years and $15+ during a period where he was unemployed. In both cases Byron and Kobe said: “OK”. And in both cases their personalities were known and were known to be stubborn and unchanging. If you want to fault them for that
– you are entitled. I am not saying they are without fault – far from it – but they are symptoms. The virus lies within.
KenOak says
@Todd
What are you talking about? No one on this board is advocating putting Kobe’s interest above the team’s. I truly don’t believe THAT Kobe exists or ever existed for that matter. You cannot put yourself above the team and win 5 championships. This is a team sport right? How can a player do that and still have his team in title contention for over half the years that he has played? The only reason that Kobe hasn’t contributed (meaningfully) to the team over the last 3 years is that he’s been injured.
Also, no one here is advocating that the FO “defer” to Kobe. And -> news flash. They haven’t deferred to him! Hiring Mike Brown and MDA certainly wasn’t deferring to Kobe. Mac has it right up above. Certain fans and ESPN have created this strawman/boogeyman Kobe that they like to build up and tear down to generate clicks.
Mid-Wilshire made some great points as well. It’s pretty hilarious that the Holmes article’s sources are completely anonymous. That just seems like what he really wrote is just his opinion based on nothing.
Jim C. says
My issue with Holmes’ article is not that it was negative, it was that it was negative by selectively picking and choosing which facts to include.
As an example, to support the “bad teammate” angle, it talks about the Laker problems signing elite free agents in recent years and specifically mentions LaMarcus Aldridge. But the details that leaked to the media – after the first misleading storyline that he wanted LaMarcus to be his Pau – were that Kobe did everything he could to get Aldridge there. He talked about how the Lakers had built a winner around him (in part by trading for Pau) when he had started to lose faith and how they could do the same for Aldridge.
Essentially, the Lakers lost Aldridge more because he wasn’t convinced they were where they needed to be from a basketball standpoint in general (team roster) and from a basketball analytics standpoint in particular than for anything Kobe related. The first meeting with Aldridge that the front office said went great, the Aldridge camp said focused to much on the city of LA and non-basketball content.
Similarly, the article does not mention prominent examples of big name NBA players disputing the bad teammate angle. For example, Kevin Durant had some very strong comments about it would be great to play with Kobe and other greats have talked about how their international basketball experience with Kobe really made them better players and pushed them to the next level.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/12/16/kevin-durant-kobe-bryant-lakers/20506671/
In other words, the article in question did not use ALL facts at hand. It started with a narrative and then selected which pieces of data it wanted to use in order to fit that narrative. That’s not thoughtful and nuanced writing.
Mister X says
Kobe Bryant is a guy whose large salary is irrelevant because his team isn’t contending for a title whether he makes $25 million or $10 million this season. This team is not one non-max starter away from being a championship contender, it is three superstars away from it.
—
I like Robert’s attempt to convey what many of us are feeling. If you follow his logic, the circumstances surrounding frittering away assets (draft picks/Dwight/Pau), Kobe’s extension, hiring poor coaches and two years of rosters full of back of the bench players are symptoms of a larger malaise: Jeanie and Jim aren’t particularly good at what they do and it shows.
Todd says
What are you talking about?
—-
I’ll borrow Snarky George’s line as clarification:
“Going all in on an aging superstar, in a hard cap league, has produced the worst record in franchise history in consecutive seasons.”
A Horse With No Name says
Mid-W, Mac : Excellent!
KenOak: ” What are you talking about? ” Just killed it.
BigCitySid says
-Well written Darius. On point.
Patrick Lanigan says
I think the FO is in the catbird seat. You simply set a budget for a 2 year extension (if and only if Kobe stays healthy and plays well his year) and you stick to it. If he won’t sign for your budgeted number, you shake his hand, take his measurements for his statue outside Staples, and move on without him.
No reasonable person will be upset with he FO if they refuse to pay Kobe $15 million+. This roster has a ton of young talent, and they need to exploit that by using their prodigious cap space to surround those young, talented and cheap guys with some very good veteran talent. At the right price, Kobe can be a part of that, and the power lies entirely with the FO and not with Kobe.
And the point Darius made is spot on. Kobe respects guys who challenge him. It’s why he likes MWP, Harden, and Westbrook. If our youngsters rise up and demand leadership roles (through their effort and their play), I can easily see Kobe pass the torch.
KenOak says
I disagree with this statement-
“Going all in on an aging superstar, in a hard cap league, has produced the worst record in franchise history in consecutive seasons.”
I don’t believe that the Lakers went “all in” on Kobe. They went all in on Nash, Howard, and Kobe/Pau. Then Nash got injured and tanked that season -> then Kobe got injured and all was lost. Once Howard decided to leave -> the team decided to extend Kobe.
However you feel about the extension. Shouldn’t have done it…too long…too much money. Whatever. The team had reasons for the extension and I don’t think those reasons were that they believed that Kobe, coming off an achilles injury, was going to lead them to a championship. The extension was a business decision pure and simple. In other words, the team was bad. It was bad whether or not they extended Kobe for 5 million or for 25 million. The pieces weren’t there to draw big name FA.
Robert says
KenOak: I agree with part of what you are saying, however the extension is a chicken/egg scenario. If we had not extended Kobe or had extended him at a much less amount, who knows what would have happened? Championship was highly unlikely – yes – but we might have done some other positive things for the future. And I discussed this during year 18. And now I am discussing it in year 20. So what if we extended KB again right now for years 21 + 22? Ridiculous? How is it more ridiculous than signing Kobe before he came back from his Achilles injury? Again – it would probably be “good business”. He is the second favorite name in the league behind LBJ right? And how would the argument against that be any different than it could have been in year 18? What Todd and others are saying is that you can’t invest all your money in one item and then say – well we did not have enough money to do anything anyway. And this is all past. The future could be deja vu all over again. Kobe plays well and healthy and wants to play years 21 + 22. What are we going to do and how will the discussion be any different? The odds of us winning a title with or without Kobe over the next 3 years are not good in any case. That is the same logic being used that we would not have done anything over the last 2 years with or without Kobe. I have been in a 3 year quandary over this myself. I love Kobe and I am not letting him go until I have something else to root for. Can you imagine going into this year without Kobe – how miserable it would be? Then again – like Todd and others – I want titles, and I am not looking forward to us breaking our record of 8 years outside the NBA Finals – looking in, yet I am resigned for us to do so. So does KB retiring after this year (year 20) expedite our recovery? What about if he stays two more years until year 22? And what if he had retired after year 18? Would we be further along? Which one is best for the Lakers?
rr says
Kobe/FAs: As I said a few months ago, even if Kobe had the gravitas of Bill Russell and the demeanor of Magic Johnson, he and the Lakers would not be a draw for Tier 1 and Tier 2 FAs right now, because of how bad the team is and how old, expensive, and fragile Kobe himself is.
Holmes: ESPN produces a lot of good NBA material, but the Kobe stuff they put up is mostly stuff like this, or stuff that is even more useless and snarky than the Holmes piece. As noted above, Kobe is simply not such a major issue anymore. If Russell, Randle, and Clarkson actually have what it takes to be what we hope they can be, Kobe and Byron aren’t going to stop them.
Todd,
I usually agree with you, but if you think Kobe is a problem, then as Robert says, again, your issue is neither with him nor his fans, it is with the front office. Basically:
1. All Lakers fans with a couple of firing neurons agree that the development of the three key young guys is by far the most important issue facing the team right now. Nothing else–including the won-lost record–really matters all that much this year. You notice that even though the team is 0-3 in preseason, the vibes have been pretty good the last few days–not much about the FO, less Byron-bashing. The main reason for that is obvious: Randle is looking good. That (plus Russell/Clarkson looking good) is all most people really want right now IMO. Kobe has not been shooting a huge amount, which is what most people want to see from him, but even if he were going 0-15 RRC is still who people are looking at.
2. The disagreements both here and within the fanbase in general revolve around a) How good the team will be this year and b) Buss-FO/Scott/Kobe. But the latter two in (b) are here because of the first one.
rr says
Robert,
I agree with a lot of that, but I think if Kobe were already gone, most people would be fine rooting for the youngsters, as you like to call them. Heh. If their team is going to lose 50-60 games, IMO most fans want that to happen with guys who give hope for the future.
Yes, Kobe will help TV ratings and merch sales, and people will buy tickets to see him one more time. But if he were gone, I think fans would adjust and the marketing apparatus of the team would be built around RRC (it is to some extent anyway).
Todd says
Ken Oak: the FO painted themselves into a corner so that resigning an injured Kobe was their only move/cover.
FO supporters see the sum of all the preceding managreement decisions (overpaying for an aged Nash, losing tradeable assets for nothing, poor coaching selections, injured Kobe’s extension and the sign multiple elite free agents and we’ll be OK strategy). as sound basketball moves. And all everyone ever did was give the FO a pass and say, ‘Shucks, that didn’t work.”
FO detractors saw the fallacy of those moves and knew the odds were over whelming that they would turn out poorly. That is the basis of our differences. You look at the above and say the FO is trying to win. I look at those moves and say the FO is in over their heads — far too many avoidable mistakes for my taste.
steve0319 says
I already see him trying to “blend in” more in a game. And I already see the young trio not deferring to Kobe. So far so good. Oh and a very thoughtful article. You have great insight.
mud says
let’s clear up one thing, though…
Kobe’s injuries have NOT been age related. how many young players have popped their achilles lately? Xavier Henry was the latest on the Lakers, and he is quite young.
Kobe’s recent injuries have been the result of immediate trauma, not wear and tear. the achilles was the result of taking the Lakers to the playoffs BY HIMSELF. he tried too hard. that gutless wonder at center coasted through the season and playoffs after and then left. he never gave his all. the rest of the team wasn’t capable of a supreme effort after the loss of Nash, so Kobe did it on his own. i LOVE a player who will compete until he breaks on the Lakers. those freethrows represented the epitome of what Kobe does FOR THE TEAM. he made SURE the Lakers made the playoffs before leaving the floor. the injury was caused by supreme effort above and beyond what his body could handle.
the broken knee was the result of the achilles injury and compensation for it. the shoulder was already bad, but he played anyway and dunked anyway. it was trauma that could have downed a player of any age.
will he stay healthy? no one knows. heck, Randle broke his leg last year and he’s a very young buck.
it’s just a bunch of “reporters” from ESPN, a company that doesn’t like the Lakers or kobe, or the west coast, for that matter, and those who repeat the words of those guys who are controlling all discourse. then, fans who want to sound smart repeat what these “experts” say.
Kobe is certainly aging, and he’s not what he once was. he’s still pretty effective. heck, he wasn’t what he once was when he hurt the achilles, he was just leading the league in scoring and putting the team on his back anyway. at least there is some talent to help with the heavy lifting this year. one thing is certain, though. he has not been out of the lineup because of age. it’s because of acute impact, the same kind that has sidelined many, many younger players.
Oldtimer says
rr,
Everything will come to halt and becomes part of the past from Baylor to JWest to big dipper to Kareem, to Magic to Shaq and most probably by end of this season or next it will be Kobe’s time. You can defeat Father time.
What is amazing is why are these detractors who call themselves Laker fans continue to tear down our lone Superstar on his last hurrah? If he made 25M this season, so be it, it is Buss money and that family get it back trifold because of Kobe’s presence. They say Kobe is selfish, that is an old story and he is loved by many because of that selfishness. Nobody can dissed those type of shots or make 81 points in one game or become 3rd highest pointer of all time. Today, it is just preseason, why the hate and where is it coming from? Why do we give these people too much attention?
We all should focus on winning games with or without Kobe.
bmcburney says
In the just the past few days, ESPN has given us the Holmes article, ranked Kobe as at 93 among NBA players and ran a separate story on the ranking suggesting that, at 93, Kobe is grossly over-rated but also noting that he is the highest-rated Laker which means that the Lakers have the lowest rated highest rated player (yes, evidently, that is really a thing) in the whole NBA. Yesterday, we got a fiesta of Laker/Kobe hate on the Truehoop podcast. Fully 35 minutes of a 48 minute podcast devoted to how bad Kobe is, how bad the Lakers are and how stupid Laker fans are for supporting them. Today I spotted the Baxter Holmes tweets trying to get Kobe to comment on his ESPN ranking and I hear from the Truehoop pod that ESPN has put together a YouTube clip which Holmes tweeted showing Kobe dribbling down the clock and taking a bad shot. Evidently that was a “last shot of the quarter” situation which would explain why Kobe had the ball for the entire possession but, what the hell, I guess it does make Kobe look bad if you don’t know anything about basketball.
I may be stating the obvious but, fellas, I think we are being trolled.
bmcburney says
The Truehoop podcast was so over the top crazy, I had to go back and look at Kobe’s stat line from Thursday (the night before the podcast). This is from memory but it was something like 16 points, 5 of 11 from the field, 4 for 4 from the line, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals in about twenty minutes. Kobe had a +2 plus/minus. I certainly wouldn’t call it a vintage Kobe but having a guy like that on your team doesn’t seem like hell on earth to me.
Robert says
The ESPN article was the first “in a series” about the Lakers so buckle up. I agree that many of these are slanted against us, but we need to realize that it is not just ESPN. Positive links can also be posted if somebody has one (that is not a board or writer based in LA).
bmcburney: People would “troll” the Lakers when we were on top. With where we are now, I think what is happening is better categorized as “internet bullying”.
Craig W. says
The best thing we can do is not to ‘click’ on the articles and don’t bother to comment on them in these threads.
Go Lakers!
BigCitySid says
-Pertaining to the growing negative Kobe comments, it’s not rocket science. It started long ago, via a small minority. As time has gone on, and it has become more “popular” to bash Kobe, more writers, fans & pundits have. No more, no less.
rr says
Sid,
Not even close. Kobe has been a hugely polarizing player for almost his entire NBA career, and after Eagle, that intensified and the switch has been flipped to on ever since. If you actually believe what you just wrote, I can only conclude that you basically never interact with NBA fans who are not Lakers fans–and BITD of the Shaq/Kobe wars, even a lot of Lakers fans had issues with KB.
ESPN has become the focal point of it, since most of their basketball writers are guys 30-45 years old who root for other teams and don’t like Kobe or the Lakers, and because bashing Kobe gets clicks. Some of these guys, like Lowe and Pelton, are good writers/analysts. Others, like Holmes, are basically hacks IMO, but all of them have some animus towards Kobe, the Lakers, and Lakers fans, and that shows up in how they cover both him and the team, with the Holmes piece being the latest among innumerable examples.
rr says
adding:
If Sid simply means Lakers fans, then, well, sure. Kobe is the highest-paid guy in the NBA at age 37 on a team coming off 61 losses. So, obviously he will get some flak.