Earlier I tried to project what the Lakers’ final 15 man roster would look like. That projection has already been proven wrong as the team announced its first two cuts:
The Los Angeles Lakers have waived guard Michael Frazier II and center Robert Upshaw, it was announced today by General Manager Mitch Kupchak.
Frazier II, an undrafted rookie from Florida, was originally signed by the Lakers on August 25. He appeared in four preseason games for Los Angeles, averaging 2.0 points, 2.3 rebounds, and 0.8 assists in 13.5 minutes per game.
Upshaw saw action in four of the Lakers’ seven preseason contests, averaging 2.5 points, 3.0 rebounds, and 0.75 blocks in 14.1 minutes per game. The undrafted rookie out of Washington was originally signed on September 14.
Cutting Frazier is not much a surprise, though I might have struggled with it. As I have noted, he has real two-way potential and has enough of a shooting stroke to project into a viable three point shooter with some seasoning. He’s clearly not there yet, though. Releasing him now reflects that. I’m guessing the team is hopeful he’s open to playing for the D-Fenders this upcoming season.
Cutting Upshaw will make more waves than Frazier, but in a way the situation is exactly the same. Upshaw’s potential is one of a rotation player who can impact the game on both ends of the floor. Because he projects to be that player, however, doesn’t mean he is right now. In fact, he’s not close yet.
The tools are there, however. And that makes it it bit more difficult to digest. It’s simply rare you have a player of his size and physical traits available and in-house. Letting him go seems like you’ve throwing away a lottery ticket before finding out what the winning numbers are. The team has seemingly chosen to go with known quantities rather than keep a player on the 15 man roster who offers the unknowns.
I don’t blame them for this, per se. They have access to information I don’t and have seen all the players up close in more situations than the game minutes we have been exposed to. The flip side, however, is that in those game minutes we have seen the glimpses of what he can be. Those glimpses then become projectable skills. An examination of the roster shows those skills lacking and…boom, we have an idea about what should happen.
Like Frazier, the hope is that Upshaw will commit to the D-Fenders where the Lakers can continue to get an up close look and impact his development curve. And while they will not have any official rights to him, having him on their home D-League affiliate would give them an advantage.
In any event, the Lakers’ roster is now down to 17. With at least two more cuts coming, this won’t be the last update we provide.
Archon says
Personally, I wasn’t as high on Upshaw as other Laker fans. I didn’t like his basketball instincts and I think he’s too lumbering to ever be a legitimate NBA shot blocker.
I’m still a little surprised they cut him but he was a LONG way from being a productive NBA player.
lil pau says
ah, man, i’m sick about this… i was an upshaw-skeptic who was really won over by his preseason play… .that said, let’s not forget that the lakers have access to so much more information than we do (practices, interviews, workout regimen, general attitude, relationship/chemistry with other players, etc.),
that said, if i hear BScott explain this cut by praising sacre’s defense, I’m going to hit somebody…
It’s not like we’re a playoff team, we should be valuing potential over tried-and-true mediocrities… I would feel differently if we were looking to contend in the next year or so….
the other Stephen says
I’m also disappointed that Upshaw was waived. The Lakers are so bare of trade assets that their only way forward depends upon hoping as many of their rookies hit their marks and form a solid core or framework as possible (whether to grow organically or attract FAs). Why would the team not want to cultivate as many options as they can?
Upshaw may never be a star, but I could have easily seen him reaching further above his relative “draft position” than Sacre has, particularly on defense. You’re telling me you can’t even swap out an end-of-the-bench guy, whose ceiling is clear by now, for another with higher upside?
The team is pretty well-balanced with these cuts now–about half veterans and half rookies/sophomores–and there is a logic behind winning games now to establish some organizational momentum, so perhaps I’m just splitting hairs about something we’ll all forget about in a few months. But like Hale, LP, and Vasheed said: if you don’t take chances on guys like this now, then when?
Strategically, it always seems like it’s one step forward and one step back with this team. I was excited that two guys with seemingly much higher abilities relative to their positions just fell into the Lakers’ laps after the draft, but I guess I’ll just have to drop that and move on.
Justin says
According to Eric Pincus,”Other” issues and not basketball talent was the reason.
dxmanners says
Upshaw is funny, he likes like he runs awkwardly, but if you watch carefully he keeps up pretty well. Just not in a smooth way.
Another mistake. Would have liked to have signed him for the year, and see how he panned out. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I feel pretty much the same way about Frazier.
Used to be high on Jabari Brown, but Lou W. makes him expendable.
This team again looks like a bunch of misplaced parts, except when Huertas is playing. He brings guys together, even Nick Young to a degree. Love that guy.
Sacre is a worker, but has got to be the shortest 7 footer in history. Plays like a 6′ 8″ guy.
Joel says
I know there is a new unwritten rule that we’re not supposed to be critical of the team/FO. However, I caught something I wanted to share.
I read an article on Grantland that ranked each team’s NBA Pass ‘watchability’. The fact that the Lakers came in 24th is neither here nor there. What struck me as interesting was the comment towards the end which infers that the Lakers could have, for very little cash commitment, locked Clarkson up to a longer deal from the very beginning.
As some are aware Clarkson is a restricted free agent this summer. While I’m sure the Lakers will match any offer, the point is that it’s clearly a situation that did not have to be dealt with so soon. If the Lakers liked Clarkson enough to buy the pick to get him why not give Jordan a 3 or 4 year deal out of the gate?
Its things like this that make me question the FO — so many penny wise and pound foolish moves.
___
“This could be the most watchable awful team in NBA history.
Also, potent is the Lakers’ unmatched collection of unintentional comedy fodder: Williams, Kobe, and Nick Young sharing one ball; Young doing literally anything; Ryan Kelly’s hair; Metta World Peace and Marcelo Huertas being here for some reason; Robert Sacre’s bench antics; the inevitable blank stare from Roy Hibbert when Kobe screams at him; fans slowly realizing Clarkson is about to become a free agent even though the team had the leverage and cap room to push for a longer deal; and Byron Scott, dead man walking.”
the other Stephen says
Good comment, Joel. The details of Clarkson’s contract went over my head at the time, but his upcoming RFA has indeed felt awful soon to me. I’d love to hear you guys’ thoughts on this.
Craig W. says
I too am a bit upset by the cut of Upshaw. The only mitigating factors are 1) We don’t know everything the front office does and 2) Not only did every team pass on him in the draft, but no one tried to sign him after summer league, when the Lakers held off signing him until Sept.
Keeping both Young and Williams, while cutting Frazier, would also appear shortsighted for a development club. Here I see the vets have more trade value and, by cutting Frazier early, we may have a better chance to sign him to a D-League contract. Mitch may very well be positioning himself to have trade material half way through the season – Williams, Young, Bass – to go along with a youngster; for a superstar in return.
tankyou says
Trade Clarkson before the trade deadline. Focus completely on Russel and Randle, don’t wait to overpay Clarkson next year. Don’t want to see the Lakers try and use Clarkson as someone to build around, he’s a great slasher but that’s about it at this point. Plus he invariably takes time away from Russel playing PG.
I’m just not high on Clarkson, sure he’s an offensive talent, but he’s a SG, don’t want to see him play PG for us anymore. I think he’s going to be jacking up shots as much as humanly possible this year b/c he can mostly get away with it, and it potentially rewards him with max deal, here or elsewhere. Let’s just put all the chips down on the two 1st rounders and build around them, and say a kind farewell to Kobe, and say a take your money and leave to Byron Scott.
Archon says
Tankyou,
The problem with Clarkson is that he’s not a shooting guard, he’s a scoring point guard that needs the ball in his hands. I don’t think him and Russell is a long-term solution together. The problem is there is just enough of “poor man’s Westbrook” in him though that I would be terrified of trading him.
mud says
re: Clarkson/Russell fit-
the 60s Lakers had both Elgin Baylor and Jerry West, two high scoring ball dominant players. it went pretty well.
then, in the 70s they had West and Gail Goodrich. it went pretty well.
Justin says
@Joel, No this gives them way more flexibility with no downside. Lets say they sign the dream scenario of Durant and Horford. Clarksons cap hold would be under $2 million, meaning you need those dollars. And even if you don’t use it on them you can use it on other FA.Anything you sign Clarkson for takes away from that cap. And they completely own Clarkson because of the Arenas rule. He literally can only get less with other teams. So really it is not a concern. Lakers hold all the cards. Why give that up?
Joel says
Yes, I agree that the FO missed an opportunity to lock up Clarkson on a longer deal. Knowing that the CAP was going to go up tagging another year or two on his first deal (for likely less than a mil per season) would have been a smart move. Even adding a 3rd year team option would have been helpful.
I will acknowledge some will argue that ‘hind sight is 20/20’ and there was no way to know Clarkson would ‘blow up’. I say that guaranteeing years 3 &4 at that salary (less than $1 Mil/per) is only roughly double the league minimum — which is to say that it’s not a big financial commitment should Jordan not pan out.
I have no doubt that the FO was focused on their ‘sign two max free agents’ strategy. In that case even the smallest contract on the books is a potential problem. Ergo, the young Clarkson gets two years because his salary space may be needed to max out free agent ‘X’.
Here are the annual salary 0-6 years experience for this past summer (2015/16 season) and will surely increase next summer. Looks like Clarkson will be getting quite a raise.
Re-sign Sign elsewhere
One-year Contract $16,407,000 $16,407,000
Two-year Contract $34,044,525 $33,552,315
Three-year Contract $52,912,575 $51,435,945
Four-year Contract $73,011,150 $70,057,890
Five-year Contract $94,340,25
david h says
darius: if I didn’t know better; i’d say the front office takes a peek at your projections and say, let’s go the other way. not play a hunch; not look at potential; not look at need. they are a consistent bunch to say the least.
make another prediction, quick so they can make up their minds.
Go lakers
Justin says
@tankyou, I disagree. The days of putting up shallow points for big contracts are likely over. Too many advanced stats kill you if you play that way. And who knows what those stadium cameras tell you. Clarkson would likely lose money doing that (as it would make him squarely a 6 man).
As for Clarkson as a ball handler, that is where the NBA is going. You want multiple guys who can handle it. Plus you don’t need to waste a space on a third string PG because he will always be able to play it in a pinch. And the best thing about Clarkson is not his scoring. It is that he can switch with Russell on defense. It is what all teams want to do (put out guys who can play multiple positions and guard multiple positions). The more you can switch the less a team can attack with PNRs. Imagine Curry forcing a switch with Clarkson being right in his face. Curry has no advantage and running the PNR with Klay is now useless. And with Randle moving his feet so well, you would force all PNRs to be played with Curry and whomever Hibbert is guarding. Now get to the playoffs and know that the Warriors can only run a Curry Bogut PNR and you can game plan for it. Kerr would have to get creative and the last thing you want as a top seed is adjusting to the lower seed. Puts the advantage back to them (this by the way was how the Baron Davis Warrior upset the Mavs back in the day. The Mavs couldn’t play their game and the adjustments took enough away and enough out of rhythm that the Warriors won).
Robert Fisher says
Darius, in a previous post you told us that the Lakers could cut Upshaw, Frazier, and Holmes, send them to the D-Fenders, and keep the rights to them.
Now it seems that was wrong or my understanding of what you wrote was wrong.
As far as Upshaw, spending time with the D-Fenders is what he needs to do. If he continues to develop to the point he can move up to the Lakers, then Sacre could be waived or traded. I figured that would be the plan all along.
Craig W. says
Justin, very good analytic comment. Thank you for the observations.
IMO – Holmes and J. Brown are probably gone, with both signing with the Defenders if they don’t immediately get signed elsewhere. A. Brown probably gets assigned to the Defenders, with Nance making several visits over the year, unless there is an injury.
Kareeme says
As much as I hate to admit it, I think that waiving Upshaw was the best move. Upshaw is still clearly a project and gets lost on whole series of possessions. Meanwhile, Tarik Black is undersized as a 5 and best as a backup.
Divvying minutes is difficult given Hibbert will probably play about 28mpg reliably. Tarik Black isn’t going to be effective for 20 minutes a game, especially against offensive centers. Meanwhile, Sacre is necessary to soak up 10 minutes a game and backup Hibbert in case of injury.
Upshaw is not ready to play NBA games, and we don’t have the depth to waive either Black or Sacre or the versatility to confidently run a small ball lineup for long periods. This move gives us the greatest roster flexibility. And if Upshaw develops on the D-fenders into a rotation player (or something more), then we can cut Sacre and move Upshaw up. Sigh… I hate it… but I think it makes sense. I wonder what the off court issues influencing the FOs decision… Still not public word on this.
R says
Off court issues with Upshaw? Well that wouldn’t be too surprising considering off court issues got him bounced from two college teams and caused 30 NBA teams to pass on drafting him – twice. He hasn’t exactly set the world on fire since, either.
Robert says
Joel: Priceless !!
“Williams, Kobe, and Nick Young sharing one ball” I have been talking about that for months. Thought nobody else noticed.
“Young doing literally anything” Exactly. What did we sign him for again? 10 years with a player option for the 11th?
“Byron Scott, dead man walking.” So true. But he could be a zombie through 17.
Upshaw: The arguments for this guy are weak. Lottery tickets have potential too, so why not buy 10 lottery tickets every day instead of eating lunch?
Mid-Wilshire says
Kareeme,
I concur. Actually, I had great hopes for Robert Upshaw. I was hoping that he would enter preseason with a vengeance and impress the world with his defensive instincts and shot-blocking, even with an occasional offensive flourish. And although he had his moments, he simply did not astonish anyone…including me.
In order to unseat an incumbent (even a clunky, unspectacular, 3rd-year back up like Sacre) you must out play him. Upshaw simply did not do that. If Upshaw in his last game or two had scored 8 pts., grabbed 9 rebounds, and blocked 3 shots in 16 minutes, then I would say that he would have played himself onto the team. But that did not happen.
Maybe he just needs some more seasoning. Maybe he needs a year in the D League so that he can learn what it takes to play at a higher level.
My feeling is that Upshaw may be 2 years away from making a real contribution. By that time, of course, he may no longer be in the Lakers’ system.
I wish it had turned out differently. I still have high hopes for him. And I still hope that maybe one day — who knows? — he may yet put on a Laker uniform and contribute in a big way. But, I guess, now is not that time.
Ed says
The best case is the Lakers are clearing roster spots to make a deal or pickup a waived player before the season begins. Gambling that nobody will pick Upshaw,and then he can go to the Defenders and be available if necessary during the season. Probably a good gamble.What now for both Browns and MWP?
KO says
Tank
Surprised at your post. I think if you study Clarkson numbers when Kobe is not on the court they ate impressive. They are worse when he is. Where is biggest weskness is TOs I see him replacing Kobe at the 2 next year with his outside shot getting better each year.
Clarkson has a better future then Russell whom I have not been iimpressed with and based on someone I speak to with coaching staff is hardest worker in practice.
Russell MAY be 2 years away. Clarkson is now.
Clay Bertrand says
I loved Upshaw’s potential and was pulling for him to unseat Sacre but he never really showed a true Shot Blocker instinct in the games he played in. He was always a lot more concerned with staying with his own man than in roaming and rim protecting. He gave up multiple layups at the rim and got dunked on a couple of times too. I was pleasantly surprised at his raw yet somewhat effective offensive touch (all except the missed DUNK), and he moved decently for a guy his size but I found his advertised shot blocking prowess fairly underwhelming.
On the Clarkson RFA status, I see where the Lakers COULD HAVE locked him up for longer. I have also heard somewhere that the Lakers actually wanted to use the Washington pick on ANOTHER player who was a big man who was drafted right before the pick. I’ve never heard who this player could have been or if this story was true at all (I always understood the Lakers just paid for the Wiz to pick Clarkson on the spot because he was available at 46). As good as he has become, I think locking Clarkson up would have been too premature at the time. The hindsight reasoning is convincing but second round studs are few and far between. I can’t fault the FO for not giving him a longer deal at the time even if it DOES complicate the cap situation going forward (assuming of course, we keep him).
Am I the only one still trying to figure out what Offense Byron Scott is supposed to be coaching here??? The ball doesn’t move, the players don’t move and then Nick Young AND/OR Lou Williams shoots a long contested jumper. Is that a designed play by Byron?? Cuz it’s pure genius……..smh. When Huertas is playing, Byron can’t recognize what’s going on on the court!!! It’s Basketball Byron!!! You’re supposed to be coaching it!!!!!!!!!!!
At least there’s hope……Byron DID develop Chris Paul and Kyrie Irving Right?? I mean, they’re good now and he coached them as young players so he MUST have developed those guys Right???
Sure….Sure he did……(this KoolAid tastes funny……….)
Joe Houston says
Let’s what teams are lining up to sign Upshaw. Let the truth be told, the only reason Upshaw is being talked about is Hassan Whiteside. Upshaw isn’t Whiteside
Joel says
Quoted material in my first post is directly from Grantland article. I’m witty but not that ascerbic.
Robert says
“The ball doesn’t move, the players don’t move and then Nick Young AND/OR Lou Williams shoots a long contested jumper”
And you are blaming this on Byron? Please link me to highlights of these two guys careers when any other type of offense was used.
Joel: Do not read those articles. Cover your ears and say “la la la la la “
matt says
Frazier cut because we already have a.brown …. upshaw sjowed some good stuff . We all hoped the lakers had come up on a steal..but he did not play a physical game at this level to lead college in blocks at Washington is not the nba.. we were all excited when he blocked that high profile rookie in summer league but its the right call to cut him
J C says
Re: Pincus rumor.
If a player failed a drug test or couldn’t stay sober for a month with his career on the line, he needs to focus on sobriety before basketball.
I’m not saying that’s what happened here. Just speculating on what non-basketball reasons may have contributed to a guy being cut.
We can’t keep 19 players so someone had to go.
Cd says
Clarkson can get a max deal but it is based on a % of his salary now. This means he won’t break the bank. Don’t trade him.
matt says
Remaining squad
Guards
Clarkson , kobe , williams , russell , huertas , young , a.brown , j.brown
Forwards
Randle , bass , nance , kelly , mwp , holmes
Centers
Hibbert , black , sacre
The Dane says
When we call out the FO for these cuts, then we are pressing. When you coach and manage a team, there are so many things that come into play, which we don’t see. If a player does not have chemestry with certain team mates or is a bad example etc,
The most important thing here is the development of the few top talents the Lakers have, and then and Upshaw doesn’t matter.
Anonymous says
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/laker-boss-jim-buss-is-happy-his-team-has–turned-the-corner-211707125.html
Anonymous says
Stephen A Smith responds to Jim Buss’ self serving USA Today article:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQnB9EbHfmU
J C says
http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-mike-dantoni-says-robert-sacre-has-it-all/2014/04/05/
Vasheed says
Upshaw defended well on the ball. He showed a surprisingly good offensive skills. Not just his shot but a high IQ setting picks and then rolling to the basket to draw the defense. The only knock I could see is that he seemed to make mistakes.
I think he played better than Sacre. He still a lot of room to grow. Other than for a non-basketball reasons could I see this cut as reasonable.
Clay Bertrand says
Robert: My point regarding the Byron Scott “OFFENSE” is that it SOOOO unstructured, SO disorganized and lacking in spacing that it devolves from its disorganization into the necessity of short shot clock ISO ball. The kind of shots a player does not have to be accountable for because its in the last 8 seconds of the shot clock end up being taken. Lou Williams and Nick Young have no conscience ANYWAY about shooting (ANYTIME!). The lack of any cohesive offensive structure or plan or clearly defined Roles for guys that Byron is responsible for instilling and developing as Head Coach results in Lou and Nick using their “I’m up against the clock, I gotta hoist a 3 with this guy in my face, don’t blame me!!” Modus opertandi that as you rightly point out, has always been each guy’s game.
I’m just NOT a fan of Byron as a head coach. I think he is part of the charade the Lakers are putting on to appear to NOT be rebuilding so that their TV partners and season ticket holders don’t lynch Jim and Jeanie. He’s also there to add a comfort level to Kobe. He will have to be replaced soon hopefully by a young modern coach who can grow with the team like Riley did. Frankly, I’d try to get Kevin Ollie. He may not attract Durant to our rebuild but he’d help build our core the right way.
Calvin says
Let’s go JC! Big contract year for Clarkson. I think he’ll average 16, 5 and 5 this season. #Gilas I can totally understand picking Sacre over Upshaw. Sacre’s a very good company guy – knows his role, doesn’t complain, has great attitude, and good for team chemistry. If there’s a chance Upshaw could be a distraction, then his limited upside is not worth the risk.
Clay Bertrand says
Further on Byron Scott as Coach, he was supposed to instill this DEFENSIVE mindset that was so obviously lacking under D’Antoni. Last year the defensive rotations were non existent. Worthy on TV would lament that no one is “Helping the Helper.” Now we’ve got a new roster, a new shot blocking center and still, NO ONE IS HELPING THE HELPER on D. The rotations are non existent. Worthy JUST SAID IT a couple of nights ago!!
SO new players, a new season and the Same Coach with the same lack of defensive rotations. Hibbert is as pissed at his teammates as Ed Davis or perhaps Jordan Hill was last year for not rotating. And Dwight Coward was ALWAYS pissed that no one was rotating. SO Byron has changed what exactly????
The Warriors went out and got Ron Adams to tune their D. Now they shoot the lights out and have a strong D. Byron has his son, Paul Pressey, Jimmy Eyon (from the old Laker days), and a myriad of apparent YES MEN who have not been effective in scheming any type of D half court OR transition.
The only thing Byron has been accountable for as Head Coach was when he ran Kobe into the ground last season AGAINST KOBE’s OWN RECOMMENDATIONS on minutes. He HAD to own that decision because he couldn’t hide from it. At least with the Celtics (ugh!) you can see the semblance of a coaching philosophy and teaching that has the team being more than the sum of its parts. Byron seems to get the team to perform beneath its talent level, low as it might be.