In the lead up to the draft, when I wrote about whether D’Angelo Russell was worth the #2 pick, I ultimately concluded that I thought he was. Nothing through the Lakers first 11 games has changed my mind or made me second guess that. Not Russell’s sub 40% shooting from the field, not his sub-3 assists per game, not Byron Scott playing him so few 4th quarter minutes, not…anything. I still have full belief in Russell as a prospect.
In saying that, the same concerns I had about Russell heading into the draft still exist. He can get lost off the ball defensively and is susceptible to getting beat off the dribble too often. He is not an elite athlete and there are times where his motor does not rev very high. There are times I want him to play faster and with more urgency. These are all things that have shown up in his game through the first part of his rookie season. This, really, is totally expected.
This is why we preach patience with young players like Russell. It takes time for these guys to learn the league, to grow out of some of their bad habits, and to learn how to maximize their strengths. Add to this the context of the schemes they play in, the teammates they are surrounded by, and the role they are asked to play and any given young player’s situation can be complicated further.
So, when looking at Russell, one has to look at more than his box-score stats and dive deeper into what his role is, what system he’s playing in, who his teammates are, how much he is being asked to do, and how much he is actually capable of doing as a 19 year old rookie. The reality is, many of those factors are not in Russell’s favor.
Russell has a relatively high time of possession, but in the Princeton offense the Lakers are running, a fair amount of that is handling the ball at the top of the floor looking for a teammate to break open off screens or in calling a play where his first pass will trigger the scheme’s motions. Russell shares the floor with other players who all like to create shots with the ball in their hands and three players who have usage rates over 20 (including Kobe who leads the team in usage at 29.4).
Russell also plays for a coach who, admittedly, is still learning to trust him and wants him to play a very specific way:
“And as I’ve I told him, I’m not looking for you to average 20 points a game, I’m looking for you to be our facilitator and get everybody where they need to be, but also to be aggressive when you have the opportunity to be aggressive. I think he’s trying to figure out that happy medium.”
“Players have got to make me want to trust them,” Scott responded when asked about how he builds trust with rookies. “He’s (D’Angelo Russell) one of those guys that I’m getting to that point where I’m trusting him, but I still want him to continue to learn and not try to do things on the fly just try to stick within the system as much as possible.”
In unpacking these quotes, it’s pretty clear Byron Scott wants Russell to be a pass first player who understands where his teammates are on the floor while operating within the offense to find his success. Scott notes he’s not telling Russell he can’t look to score, but in emphasizing balance and facilitating, I would imagine Russell’s role has been pretty well defined.
This is why I have difficulty comparing Russell to other rookies. Among other top picks, Russell’s 20.4 usage rate is 7th and behind Jahlil Okafor (28.0), Emmanuel Mudiay (27.6), and Kristaps Porzingis (25.0). These three players just happen to be the other rookies Lakers’ fans are comparing Russell to because they were all on the board when the Lakers selected. To see them put up some of the numbers they are while Russell’s stats are pedestrian can get frustrating.
Again, though, it’s important to understand context. Okafor and Mudiay lead their team in usage. Okafor is the number one scoring option and the focal point of his team’s offense. Mudiay is playing in a P&R heavy scheme where the entire flow of the offense is based on his decision making from possession to possession. These two guys* have been given the keys to the kingdom and told to play their respective games. Whether they succeed or fail is simply part of the growth process.
Russell, meanwhile, has not been given that same luxury. Whether you agree with this approach or not (and, to be clear, I do not) is not as important as this being what his reality is. Shouting at the clouds will not change the offense he plays in nor that his coach has other high usage guards he can (and will) turn to for long stretches.
I understand that patience is hard. But it is also necessary. Russell is young and has a lot to learn, but he’s also playing under circumstances several of his highly touted peers are not. This may or may not hinder his short term growth, but I still have a lot of confidence in his long term prospects. As I said up top, nothing to this point has changed my view.
*I did not mention Porzingis has having the “keys to the kingdom” because, of course, he plays with Carmelo Anthony and the Knicks are Melo’s team. But Porzingis, I would argue, is in a much more advantageous position than Russell in that he’s playing in an offense which is a great match for what he does well. Kristaps is a skilled big who sets good screens, moves well off the ball, can post up, has a nice jumper, understands passing, and does good work crashing the offensive glass. These are the exact skills a Triangle team would want in a PF and it is showing in his production and in how he’s exceeding expectations. On the flip side, if you can look at me with a straight face and say you think he would be doing similar things in the Lakers’ offense, playing for Byron Scott, while very likely playing behind Randle on the depth chart I would imagine you have used too much botox and your face no longer moves.
Jerry says
Can’t Wait to See Russell’s Growth More so in Jan Feb, and summer Leauge Of 2016
Joe Houston says
Russell will be a bust like Evan Turner.
Shaun says
exactly like evan turner … same college team …. had the keys in college and got his own , looked good like evan but is just average in the league like evan
BigCitySid says
-Some thoughts about Lakerland:
1) Is D’Angelo Russell underachieving? When you’re the #2 pick, it’s a fair question.
Chad Ford: Three of the top four picks in the 2015 draft are off to terrific starts. Karl-Anthony Towns has been a double-double machine for the Minnesota Timberwolves, Jahlil Okafor is averaging 20 PPG for the Philadelphia 76ers and Kristaps Porzingis is having a major impact on the New York Knicks. And then there’s D’Angelo Russell and the Lakers…
2) In my humble opinion, a major reason Laker’s dysfunctional front office drafted Russell is they thought he was more “Showtime” than Okafor or Porzingis.
3) Only the Jazz (18.7 assist/game) & Pistons (16.7 apg) are currently averaging fewer assist per game than our Lakers (18.8).
4) Lakers, Nets, 76ers, & Pelicans are currently sporting the worst won/loss records in the NBA by far this season. One big difference, everyone knows who this seasons’ best player is on the Pels (Davis), Nets (Lopez), & Sixers (Okafor). Can that be said about the Lakers thru 11 games?
5) What will happen this season if (yes, big if) it becomes obvious Russell and the team play better when Kobe is not on the floor?
6) Kobe is on the verge of setting another historical NBA record. 1st player to miss more than 14,000 field goal attempts. He already holds the record for most missed shots at 13,853. At his current rate of missed fgs per game (10.8) that will happen in 14 games. 3rd all time/ scoring, 3rd all time/ fga’s taken, 5th all time/ fg’s made, 1st all time/ fg’s missed…anyway you add it up, it’s bad math.
7) Lakers are on the verge of having the worst start in Laker history, thanks to all the great decisions of the front office.
8) All of this and the Lakers still will probably lose out on this season’s draft pick.
9) Worst front offices in NBA: Lakers and Kings, they are in a class by themselves.
teamn says
Nice analysis and breakdown. For me, it puts Russel’s situation in better context, but reinforces my belief that Scott is the wrong coach for the younger group of players. Maybe he is fine for the vets, but this gets back to balance and what the FO wants to achieve. My biggest fear, however, is that Russel fails to develop in large part because of this year. The Lakers cannot afford to have that happen and if it does, the FO will only have itself to blame.
bleedpurplegold says
While i agree that russell is a bust as a #2 pick for the reasons shaun already said, i still belive he can be a solid starter in this league, while turner is only a rotational player. He has the vision, a nice form on his shot and confidence to pull this off. But you also have to say that this draft by now wasnt very deep on superior talent….so i dont blame the front office for that, think we got a top 5 talent in the draft in this russ
Corey says
Pump the brakes hard on the bust talk. Anthony Bennett is a complete dog in the nba yet he got a full year to show the world he couldn’t play nba basketball. Game 12 for russell is Friday night, and then he has 70 more after that; if russell is the same guy in game 66 as he was in game 3 we should all be concerned but considering he’s a better player today than he was in july I’m betting on the kid figuring things out and being pretty damn good.
Anonymous says
Fire Byron. Problem solved.
CheckmateIn3 says
Also, kind of unfair that he gets compared to Okafor and Porzingis, when they’re a year older than Russell.
Okafor (Age 20)
15.7 PER, -3.9 BPM, .442 Win%
Porzingis (Age 20)
17.9 PER, -1.5 BPM, .503 Win%
Mudiay (Age 19)
7.6 PER, -5.8 BPM, .330 Win%
Russell (Age 19)
12.4 PER, -1.3 BPM, .453 Win%
Okafor hasn’t outperformed Russell, who’s a year younger. Porzingis played 95 games, over three seasons in a league that is comparable to or perhaps better than NCAA basketball. He’s supposed to be better than Russell right now. Let’s see where they’re at 2-3 years from now.
I think you hit the nail right on the head, Darius. I think one of the main reasons why Russell feels like a “disappointment” to people is because he’s using the ball a lot less than the rookies he’s being compared to. If anything, he needs to attack the basket more. I think he’s averaging only 1.7 drives a game. Other than that, he’s doing just fine.
Mudiay, on the other hand, has a long way to go. I’m not going to cite his turnover rate, even though it’s atrocious, because that’s a normal part of a young PG’s development. I will, however, cite his shooting percentages:
Mudiay
.305 FG%, .273 3P%, .317 2P%, .658 FT%
Russell
.393 FG%, .310 3P%, .446 2P%, .727 FT%
The three-point numbers are a little abit below average for what you should expect from both players. I think Kevin Pelton had Russell projected at 35% and you would expect Mudiay to end up around 29-30% from downtown.
The two-point shooting, on the other hand, is night day. Mudiay needs a ton of work on his jump shooting. More surprising is that so far, he’s been a terrible finisher. He’s shooting 37% at the rim. League average is a little over 60%. Russell’s 2-point shooting has been over 10 percent better than Mudiay’s, .446 to .317. That’s a giant discrepancy.
The bottom line is the only rookie who has been clearly better than Russell is Karl-Anthony Towns. Everyone else has their warts, just like Russell.
Vasheed says
Great post Darius. Also by Checkmatein3. I’m happy with Russell. I’m more keen in changing the system the Lakers are running and that means getting rid of Scott.
Gene says
Russell 2 point shooting pct is OK.He looks good shooting from the elbow. He is rebounding well for a point guard.Russell just needs to practice his 3’s more….and drive to the basket a bit more.When Scott isnt holding Russell back you will see his passing abilities….
KevTheBold says
Joe Huston, your posts, due to the content, frequency, and ridiculously premature timing, are pure troll.
I wonder which team you support, because it’s obviously not the Lakers. If it were, you would fully understand how annoying trolls can be.
lakersrekal says
BigCitySid here is the list of the top 10 in fg missed all time:
1 kobe 20 seasons
2 havlicek 16 seasons
3 elvin hayes 16 seasons
4 KARL MALONE 19 seasons
5 KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR 20 seasons
6 MICHAEL JORDAN ( AND HE ONLY PLAYED 15 SEASONS)
7 DOMINIQUE WILKINS 16 season
8 ELGIN BAYLOR 14 seasons
9 ALLEN IVERSON 17 seasons
10 DIRK 18 seasons
if most of this players would have played 20 seasons they would be up there with kobe or worse so your argument is invalid.
also 6 of this players are top 10 all time in field goals MADE.
Fern says
I posted something in the same vein in the other thread comparing Muidiay and Russell, and how Russell compares very favorably head to head, and like i said in my other comment, if Muidiay was drafted by us and was putting the numbers he is putting right now? People would be complaining “why he is getting all those minutes” and “get him of the floor” and whinning about being the FO fault, if the situation was reversed and Emmanuel was playing here and DAR in Denver for example, Miudiay numbers would be horrible, and DAR would most probably be thriving in Denver, DAR is the best player right now, his situation here is different than any of the other top picks. Calling him a bust is ridiculous and sour grapes because the Lakers didnt draft whoever YOU wanted. We have a stubborn coach with the wrong system to maximize DAR potential and we have a lot of ball huggers, thats the reality of it. The main obstacle to DAR development is Lou Williams plain and simple, i bet the Lakers sign him just to say they signed the reigning SMOTY, if they didn’t sing Lou, there would be no way DAR could be kept off the floor, i like the kid, the potential is there but BS need to ease the short leash and DAR needs to be more assertive and turn this situation in his favor, he needs to sit Lou in the bench because BS sure won’t, about pozingis, he was playing in a league that is above the NCAA, there is a reason why we dont send college kids to the Olimpics or World Championships anymore. He had the advantage to be playing with grown men
Mid-Wilshire says
Darius and Checkmate,
Excellent posts. It seems clear to me (though obviously not to others) that it is entirely too early to pass some form of definitive, final, damning judgement on D’Angelo Russell at the age of 19. In fact, it might be wise to ignore what some of the other rookies are (or are not) doing at present. Why? Because different players mature at different rates. At this point, it’s impossible to determine who’ll be the best player in 5 years.
Below, as an example of how some players mature more slowly than others, are the statistics for Steve Nash’s first 3 years in the NBA:
1996-97 (Age: 22) with Phoenix
3.3 ppg, 2.1 assists per game, 42.3% FG, 41.8% 3-pt. shooting, 10.5 minutes per game
1997-98 (Age 23) with Phoenix
9.1 ppg, 3.4 assists per game, 45.9% FG, 41.5% 3-pt. shooting, 21.9 minutes per game
1998-99 (Age 24) with Dallas
7.9 ppg, 5.5 assists per game, 36.3% FG, 37.4% 3-pt. shooting, 31.7 minutes per game
Moral of the story: it takes time.
Bear in mind that, unlike D’Angelo Russell, Steve Nash was 22 when he entered the league (birthday: February 7, 1974). He did not average double figures in scoring until his 5th year in the NBA when he was 26. Furthermore, his best years were 2005-11 when he was in his 30s.
So, once again…as a reminder — D’Angelo Russell is 19 years old. Nineteen. Years. Old.
His body has yet to fully develop. (It may not reach final form for another 3-4 years.) He’s still learning the offense. He’s adjusting to a new 3-point line. He’s playing in a system that probably does not capitalize on his strengths. And he’s a starting point guard in a league that has half of its point guards from the planet Kryptonite.
So, let’s give him a chance. Eleven games is not enough. Two years may not be enough. For all we know, three years may not be enough. (See Steve Nash above.)
Todd says
Its way to early to push the panic button on the Lakers youngsters: Randle and especially Russell. Lakers fans are understandably desperate for good news on the floor. Looking at our roster the only way we’d excel, as a team, is if the kids greatly overachieved. They haven’t — because, well, they are kids.
Fans will need to hold their collective breaths for awhile until we have a better idea of what we have. Yes, there is a great need for the kids to eventually be better than good — there is no other talent on the team — with few draft picks or assets to use in trades to improve the situation.
The team will likely need to get lucky and attract an elite talent through free agency to accelerate the rebuild and the only way that happens is if the kids prove to be winners. (Of course this also assumes the FO figures out how to make the right pitch the first time out which may be beyond the abilities of this current regime — but that is another story).
The panic button comes in a few years if the kids are just so/so and the jury is still out on how good they will be. Then the decision will be for the FO to keep them and pray they get better or move them in an effort to improve the Lakers plight, which by then may have reached DEFCON levels of panic.
Any way you slice it, if the Lakers are banking on the kids, then only time will tell. The problem is that the FO and BS don’t have the luxury of time.
Joe Houston says
I am a Lakers fan.I rather watch Kobe miss shots than watch a rookie play in slow motion. Russell cant keep up with NBA talent, it is evident from his college tape. The best young Laker is Julius Randle, the 2nd best is Larry Nance Jr. I am not a fan of Clarkson, he is a horrible defender. With playing time Anthony Brown will be a better NBA contributor than Clarkson (3&D). BTW, Porzingis had a better workout for the Lakers than Russell. In fact, Porzingis had the best draft work of all the prospects the Lakers saw. Truth is if he was an American college athlete the Lakers would have picked him.
Joe Houston says
By the way, Porzingis would have been a better fit for the Princeton offense so people thinking Byron would have destroyed him are wrong. He would have also fit better with Julius Randle than Okafor.
KevTheBold says
Thank you Darius, for such a insightful article!
I too sometimes catch myself, more due to external pressure from the impatient ones among us, urging D’Angelo to rush into the grinder and take his chances.
However, upon reflection, I can see that he’s smarter than that.
There are no plays designed for him to rush in, and the paint in Scott’s scheme is cluttered chaos.
He knows what happened to Randle last season.
So watch him, he’s taking his time, noting his competition, using his brain for a long, healthy career.
This kid will not be used as a battered gladiator, but an intelligent sniper.
However, if anyone believes that he lacks the skills to score, whenever, and wherever he desires, they are flat out wrong.
I for one, am glad we landed a talented yet cerebral PG.
Would hate to feel that burning frustration and fear which Chicago gets with Rose.
Joe Houston says
Also, ask Adrian Wojnarowski who Kobe was hoping the Lakers picked…Porzingis. Remember, Porzingis blew up to possible number 1 or 2 pick after his Lakers workout. Everyone in the building was blown away. 7’3″ with moves for days. However the doubters started reminding Jim and Mitch of Nikoloz Tskitishvili and Darko Milicic. Those 2 names and the 3 on 3 DAR played in his 2nd workout is what made the front office go with DAR. Based on scouting and workouts Russel was #4 on the Lakers board and actually dropped lower after the 1st workouts. Truth is their initial doubts about him weren’t unwarranted.
Joe Houston says
Go watch video of skinny 17 year old Kobe, he looks light years more ready for the NBA than 19 year old DAR who actually played 1 year in college. My eyes aren’t deceiving me, the kid looks bad. Can he get better yes, if he suddenly becomes way more athletic. What are the chances he gets more athletic? That isn’t a bet I am willing to make with any substantial money.
JeffT says
I just went back and re-watched college highlights for Russell, and the one thing that stuck out was how much work he did in a PNR offense. I really think that if he was able to weave that more back into his game he would settle into a solid offensive rhythm. Switch it up too, not just Hibbert up top but Randle too. Further, these motions should not be happening out at the 3-point line, which happens too much and serves no purpose.
Anonymous says
Has the FO made any comments about the start of the Lakers season, Coach BS or on the rookies? Just curious if I’d missed a Mitch interview.
We get lots of interviews from Byron but my take is that his responses are part self serving and part foolishness.
Clay Bertrand says
Joe Houston, as they say, Hindsight is ALWAYS Porzingis……..
“I am a Lakers fan. I rather watch Kobe miss shots than watch a rookie play in slow motion.”
Sounds more like you are a Byron Scott fan my friend!!!! Because that’s EXACTLY what Byron’s “system” generates. So since that is what you would rather watch, enjoy!!!!
KO says
Checkmate
Great post. Where the heck do you get that info from?
trollman says
It’s all about the eye test. DAR is a bust bust and the front office dropped the ball on the most important decision concerning their future.
The Lakers should have looked at that ridiculous red outfit he was wearing draft night and ran.
Dude is not serious.
KevTheBold says
Joe, by stubbornly ignoring all the factors which paint the picture, you fall prey to an illusion.
Though obviously, you fall willingly.
Your whole agenda is to be right, even though, as a Laker fan, being right would mean that your team is sunk.
If you believe we are doomed, I feel for you, but would it not be better for you deal with your fear and depression privately?
That way you would not alienate yourself to all the die hards and later won’t be forced to eat your shoe.
KevTheBold says
Clay, right on !
KevTheBold says
Good post Fern !
KevTheBold says
Great Post Mid-Wilshire !
KevTheBold says
Ditto for Checkmate !
LT Mitchell says
As of now, it is clear as day that Porzingis is not only much better than DAR on both ends of the floor, but also has more potential.
As Darius mentioned, Porzingis is in a better situation….but even if he was playing less minutes off the bench, his athleticism, length, coordination, soft touch, and rebounding would be plain for all to see. I am most impressed however by his confidence, mean streak and killer instinct.
Porzingis came in as a physically underdeveloped project, who had to adjust not only to the NBA, but to a new culture, so NO, he was not supposed to be better than DAR at this point.
The more success Phil has in NY, the more embarrassing it is for Jimbo and the Lakers. … and as Porzingis seperates himself from DAR even further in the coming years, fans will continue to be reminded that Phil should have been the one running the Lakers.
Clay Bertrand says
Yes, Checkmatein3, agree with KO and KevTheBold, great post, and nice follow up Mid Wilshire, I agree with both of your reasoning. The bust talk about any of these guys after 12 games is ridiculous.
Fern, I totally agree with your post. I have watched a lot of Mudiay and he is just given Carte Blanche…..I don’t see him having any restrictions on what he does. He is still pretty raw himself.
Reasons Given for DAR being a BUST here in this forum include:
1.) Went to same school as Evan Turner
2.) Wore a “red outfit: on draft night
3.) Had a Luis Vuitton Backpack on opening night
4.) Porzingis is better
5.) Okafor is better
6.) Kobe wouldn’t have picked him
7.) He doesn’t fit with Kobe
Geez man. Surprised you aren’t ALL front office executives with THAT level of critical analysis!!!
T. Rogers says
Draft picks need to be developed. Players will show flashes here and there. But flashes do not make players great or even good. Picking Russell second overall was just the beginning. Now the Lakers have to actually develop him into an effective NBA player. Development of him, Randle and Clarkson has to be their singular focus. If they aren’t truly committed to that development then they wasted their pick. And those 61 losses last season were for nothing. If Russell is struggling the Lakers have to look at what they can do differently in an effort to bring him along better. If the means trading certain players do it. If it means scrapping the Princeton for something more palatable to Russell’s strengths do it. If it means a coaching change then fine.
Consider this. If Russell is the “bust” some think he is the odds are against another first round pick this season. So don’t expect any help on that front. And the Lakers free agent pursuit over the last few season has been fruitless. There is no reason to believe next summer will be any different. The Lakers best chance of actually being decent in two years is almost totally dependent on Randle and Russell becoming consistently good NBA players. So Bryon’s “earn my trust” approach is a bit comical.
Anonymous says
Look, all the talk in the wporld will NOT change the fact that drafting this young man with the 2nd pick was without question, without doubt, the DUMBEST thig the front office has done in recent months. He will NEVER ever be a top 10 point guard in theis league,maybe the D league but not the NBA.
KevTheBold says
Guesses, and predictions are only facts to fools.
Kbj says
Watch Russell’s college tape and check his box score. Tell me that the Lakers didn’t try to get the best player at #2 with the most potential. I’m not saying he is a superstar. In fact, I don’t believe he has the potential to be a superstar. However, I believe he definitely has the potential to be an all-star or borderline all-star player (Kyle Lowry, Jeff Teague).
Here’s the thing about Russell. Russell can play off the ball in a motion offense. I’m assuming that’s what Scott wants to run. This pseudo-Princeton offense nonsense. Scott can easily utilize Russell coming off away screens for corner shots or open 3-pointers. Since Scott wants Russell to facilitate, what better way than to use PNRs to get mismatches or drives towards the rim and kick outs? No, instead Scott wants him to dribble the ball up slowly, pass the ball to teammates and wander around the 3 point line. This is hardly conducive to development.
As for Porzingis, hindsight is 20/20. Who here thought he would be this good? I bet only a couple of you thought he would be this good, especially in his first year. Lets not kid ourselves. Porzingis could be having the same kind of season that Russell is having so far. Then the media and fans would be ripping Phil Jackson for picking Porzingis instead of Mudiay or Winslow.
Joe Houston says
You guys make me laugh. DAR isn’t athletic enough to keep up with elite NBA talent. As he gets bigger and faster the others will also get bigger and faster.
KevTheBold says
Joe Houston: “As he gets bigger and faster the others will also get bigger and faster.”
Does not compute.
With Laker fans like you, who needs trolls?
BigCitySid says
– @ lakersrekal, I don’t think you thought this thru (8:35am post). You can’t possibly use “if most of these players would have played 20 seasons they would be up there (missed shots) with kobe or worse so your argument is invalid.” Think about it. If all of these players you mentioned had played for 20 years, there’s a very good chance Kobe wouldn’t be the 3rd time leading scorer.
– As for the “only 19” defense for Russell, just sounds like another reason the FO s/h considered someone else IF they wanted a quicker turn around.
Fern says
“As he gets bigger and faster other others will also get bigger and faster”
Uhhh what? You are just a troll, and looking for any justification to call Russell a bust because you don’t like him.
rr says
KO,
BPM and PER are on Bask Ref. ESPN.com and NBA.com also have a lot of good free metrics.
Anonymous says
The pessimism from some usual characters here is infuriating. Less than a dozen games into a rookie season and we are ready to call people “busts” or “steals.” SMH. Please stop posting nonsense.
Baylor Fan says
Great post Darius. It seems like the Lakers have been in need of a point guard forever and, given time, Russell should fill that need. As much as I liked Porzingis going into the draft, the Lakers are not a triangle team anymore and will not be in the foreseeable future. Having a good point guard is more important going forward and he will help attract free agents.
steve0319 says
I see all your points Darius, but my question is what kind of player will he be when he’s fully developed given the physical attributes you mentioned? He’s got great court vision, IQ, but other drawbacks you mentioned (athleticism, strength, lateral quickness, etc).
Darius Soriano says
Steve,
His lateral quickness isn’t bad, in my opinion. I also think he has good anticipation, which matters. I don’t think anyone would argue Russell has better lateral quickness than Clarkson, but the latter seems to get beat off the dribble must as much as Russell (if not more) from the games I’m watching (which is all of them).
Russell will get stronger. He also has very good height and excellent length for a PG. Folks are making the Kendall Marshall comparison, but Russell is an inch taller, has a 4″ advantage in wingspan, and a 6″ advantage in standing reach over Marshall. Russell’s measurements are very close to what James Harden’s were when he was drafted.
Having SG size at PG will help players who aren’t as quick-twitch or explosive. It will allow them to get their shot off against defenders and body up their man on both sides of the floor.
I don’t want to dismiss concerns. But, he’s 19 years old. Go find pictures of Gordan Hayward when he came into the league vs. now. And he was 13 months older than Russell when he was drafted. Russell can improve his body and then leverage his physical attributes to his advantage.
tankyou says
I think all the debate and the BIG unknown is part of the problem with Russell. He may end up being pretty good, or he may be very average. He’ s more of a wildcard pick with that moving target “upside” that supposedly Okafor didn’t have? I really don’t see now, nor then, how Okafor didn’t have big upside as well. But certainly DAR isn’t too impactful now, and likely won’t be overly impactful even if he is give the “keys to the kingdom”. But honestly, we already have Clarkson/Randle that show promise as well–and Randle has been barely shooting lately.
I made the Kendall Marshall comparison after someone else bringing it up. I made that statement based on Russell’s court vision and the ability I saw in him at being a great passer. He clearly isn’t as good a passer as KMarshall, yet it seems reasonable for him to get there. So that was actually a commendation, not a rip, I view K. Marshall as a pretty decent PG in a traditional sense–he just doesn’t produce much offense on his own, but for some teams that is fine.
As it stands these arguments are just about meaningless since they can all just boil down to “he’s only 19 and a rookie”. So basically we have to wait another year at least to re-argue all these points, since he is pretty much given a pass at this point. Maybe the FO hit the jackpot and Russell becomes amazing in a couple years?? Who knows, I’m not seeing it, but yeah its early and lots of guys improve for years to come. Prime stat players are what ages 27-29 right? But I thought we were trying to turn the ship quickly from the FO comments. Clearly their choices have not righted the ship in any manner, nor moved us quickly toward playoffs, nor even a winning record. Barring some big free agent signing we may have a losing record for at least a couple years, no way DAR/Clarkson/Randle magically becoming amazing by next year–and currently NONE of them look like even average defensive players. But of course they are young, but the Lakers franchise clearly isn’t turning around quickly–we could easily not even sniff the playoffs until the 2020’s.
LKK says
Agree completely with LT Mitchell about Porzingis… We often say that we are not privy to the workouts and practices and other goings on behind the scenes in Lakerland and it’s true. Nevertheless, I have a feeling the Lakers did not do their homework on KP. This kid recognized that his biggest weakness was a lack of physical development and strength and addressed it immediately. He’s put on weight since the draft and is a load already. Imagine him in 3 years. The Lakers missed out on him and are going to regret it big time.
A point guard that can’t turn the corner and break down defenses is at a severe disadvantage in this league. I’m willing to give DAR time to develop, but from the first time I saw him play at OSU through Sunday’s game in PHX, he has underwhelmed me with his game. I keep hoping that I’m wrong, because I know how important he is to the Lakers’ future. Analytics, context, teammates, system…all that it is white noise to me. Players play. The great ones find a way.
Blubird says
Russell obviously has severe limitations and needs a lot more time to figure it out. His shooting is not as advertised (people must be smoking with the curry comparisons). The only thing he excels at is “court vision.” He is an atrocious defender. If he worked hard enough maybe he would be average. Does not have the athleticism to be a superior defender in this league. He had trouble finishing at the rim in college. Still does not have a right hand. So many things to develop and all we have to hang on is his “vision.”
I think what I”m looking for is something in him that screams he could be great! Why? BECAUSE HE WAS ADVERTISED AS SUCH. So you gave up a offensively gifted C that with work could play D. You gave up a wildly gifted PF who could dribble shoot, etc. You took the small guy because you felt he could be GREAT. Show me something where i’m like wow, this kid could be amazing.
What is his upside potential? Why take at number 2 a player with so many question marks?
KevTheBold says
Blubird:
Though D’Angelo is understandably going through some pains of adjustment with his shot, the kid is a marksman and not only his college numbers prove it.
Take a look at him during games when he feels at ease, and is going for his, and you will see how accurate he can be from any area, including at the rim.
His so called defensive liabilities have been blown out of proportion.
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2015/11/12/9724292/la-lakers-dangelo-russell-defense-film-analysis-wow
As for the Curry comparisons, imo, it’s just as bad to be so quick to shut them down.
Let’s not forget that Curry has just recently been fully recognized; and even he has bad days, and vanishes from time to time.
Blubird says
Kevthebold:
Nothing in how he looks nor stats back up the “marksman.”
He is a sieve on defense. No way out of it and the advance stats back it up if you look opposition shooting percentage against. The article cherry picks individual plays where he is not atrocious. But yes, he is atrocious. I don’t want to even bother arguing that.
Curry is an MVP, superstar, and being discussed as the best PG since magic. Think its more unrealistic to try to compare him to Curry then not Curry.
KevTheBold says
Blubird:
I take it you were hoping for another selection prior to the draft, because Cherry picking could also be said of what you are doing on the reverse side, except you are seeking rotten fruit.
I think the front office, which had by the way, much more insight into the matter than you or I, and have an unblemished history of selecting draft picks, did a fantastic job yet again.
The stats and facts surrounding this case, make a strong argument that the standards you, and others like you are looking for, would not come from any rookie in the circumstances which envelop D’Angelo.
With regards to Curry, comparing as a rookie is fair, not to the Curry of Today.
Anonymous says
It should be known that we fans are all knowing armchair GMs and expert talent scouters and development coaches! Not only that, but we know and can predict the future! With that said, Russell is a bust. Porzingis, KAT, and Okafir will simultaneous anointed shared Rookies of the Year after the all star break or by Xmas. And the Warriors will repeat! This I know to be true because I said so.
Andres Garcia says
The pessimism on here is a little shocking. Echoing Darius, kid needs time and patience. Physically, he’s not what he will be. Is he ever going to be a physical marvel? No, but everyone gets stronger and moves better at 22 then at 19. The range on the nice elbow pull-up will extend out further as he gets stronger. Inside the line and off the dribble, he shoots more of a jump shot. Outside the line, it’s a set shot almost. This is a strength issue that’ll improve (he’s 19!) When teams have to contest shots out to the 3 point line, his lack of elite speed won’t be as large of an issue offensively. With more strength, he’ll be able to operate in the paint better as a finisher. Defensively, the kid is huge for his position. He just needs to stop ball watching so much.
The system and ball stopping teammates don’t do him any favors. I’d love to see a few elbow get sets with him and Julius (He needs Reps screening). Rather than Julius isos, would love to see more of him catching that pocket pass on the move a couple times a game.
Blubird says
How am i cherry picking? His fg% and 3pt% so far is nothing of a marksman. What’s even scarier is his college ft% in the 70’s.
Curry was hitting 40% from the 3’s as a rookie. He was very good as a rookie.
I’m putting him onto no standards that wasn’t placed on him by our FO. We drafted another combo guard that couldn’t defend so they either believed:
1)Russell was far superior to Clarkson (advertised as such with the “special” comments) or
2) they thought two combo guards that couldn’t defend would make a championship caliber backcourt
However, if he turns out to be a solid starting scoring combo guard then GREAT the lakers drafted a player earily similar to Clarkson and still have huge holes in every other aspect of the game.
I don’t have a problem with Russell per say. He may turn out to be a fine NBA player. But for the lakers to draft him number 2 overall… The FO should all be fired. Armchair or not. This FO has shown complete incompetence over the last few years. This Russell pick gives me no confidence that the lakers fortune will turn anytime soon.
Chearn says
-@LKK “Analytics, context, teammates, system…all that it is white noise to me. Players play. The great ones find a way.” Slam dunk of a statement!
Man, I miss, Chick!
So many excuses regarding this young man. D’Angelo’s only 19. Indeed, a 19-year-old that had the keys to the system in college and played against either current or future NBA players. Meanwhile, Mudiay is only 19-years-old and played a few meager games in China against players that will never be accused of having NBA quality. Since they are both from the same draft class and playing the same position, they will always be used as a barometer against each other.
D’Angelo is an excellent and willing rebounder. But in other facets of his game he has a long ways to go. People hang their hat on the fact that he will improve with age, and that’s true. What no one knows is how players in high school around the country are developing as point guards, as well as point guards in their first year in college. All of these players will be in a position to vie for his position in 2-3 years will Russell have developed enough that he doesn’t get buried behind the so-called ‘next’?
Currently, there are two must-see NBA pg’s, and they are opposites: Curry and Westbrook. Both of these players impose their will on the game to give their team the best chance to win. It is in this area that I am concerned as it pertains to D’Angelo. He doesn’t appear to know how to dominate a game except in the waning minutes of a blowout when he pads his stats.
D’Angelo is starting for the Los Angeles Lakers, and that has to stand for something more than he’s only 19-years-old. Russell’s going to have to move the needle on his learning curve at a quickened pace so the Lakers can gain an identity for their long-term strategy.
Archon says
The fact is nobody thought DAR was a can’t miss prospect, in fact most scouts and analytics people thought going into the draft that he had the highest variance between “bust” and “superstar” out of all the top players. So he had obvious red flags to his game and frankly he has done nothing to alleviate those concerns. In fact when it came to red flags about his athleticism my concerns have only gotten worse, not better.
Doesn’t mean the kid won’t right the ship and turn out to be everything the we hoped for and more, he just has a LONG way to go to get there.
harold says
Lots of good points on this thread…. however, let’s do the eye ball test…
I will not compare Russell to others. He’s a Laker and that’s it.
James Worthy and Antwan Jamison are both concerned about Russell’s……attitude, hustle and desire to play defense. Take a look at Monday nights Access show after the Phoenix game. Remember, James Worthy is at Laker practices and sees first hand the situation with Russell. Russell does not have the drive of either Clarkson or Randle.
Time is earned, not given…..nor is it entitled. Time given to entitlement (draft pick position), will ultimately lose the rest of the team and will kill free agents who would like to come. Everyone forgets, players talk amongst each other. Having played with high level players in a different sport, I know first hand what reactions will occur.
The kid needs to work hard…to drastically improve his speed, quickness, base strength and attitude.
Andres Garcia says
The panic! At the same age, Westbrook, Harden, and Curry were all gearing up…for conference play. Any of them even getting any run at 19? Pretty sure Westbrook was coming off the bench at this point of his soph season at UCLA. DAR needs time and to stay in the weight room. This was a long play.
KevTheBold says
Blubird:
I would call such negative proclamations based on so few games, rotten cherry picking.
Though I’m not enamored with the front office choices in many areas, they excel in draft picks.
Mikan, Baylor, West, Magic, Worthy, Bryant.
Now according to you, they picked a dud, and what do you base this unwaivering belief on?
I ask, who were you hoping for the Lakers to draft?
Curry was 21, Russell is 19.
LKK says
Kev,…whoever picked Mikan, Baylor and West is probably dead. RIP. The guy on whose watch Magic, Worthy and Kobe were drafted works for the Warriors now. The Lakers current FO used the franchise’s highest pick in a couple of decades on Russell; at a time when the franchise really needed a boost. I’d say the scrutiny and comparisons and varying opinions on said pick at this point is only natural. I thought the Lakers did well with their later picks this year, but I had my doubts about Russell. Still do.
KevTheBold says
LKK you go too far.
Not only does methodology pass through organizations especially families, you forget that Kupchak was there before Kobe, and probably don’t realize that Ryan West is Jerry West’s son.
While we speak of wise picks, Let’s add Randle and Clarkson to that list as well.
Look, its normal to have concerns. My frustration stems from the ones who have been calling Bust starting since summer camp, when the fact is, we won’t know possibly for years.
J C says
One of the best threads in memory.
Great posts, great site.
Nice work Darius.
bmcburney says
The love for the Zinger on this board from the “get rid of the FO” crowd is huge. Funny, that’s not the way I remember it before the draft.
BillyLo74 says
Why does Darius continue to defend a clear bust
JJ says
Everybody is so hard on this kid! Everyone wants to go back and draft big 7 ft European because of a few put back dunks! The Zinger only averages 2 pts more than Russell and Russell rebounds well for a PG. every guard on the Lakers team plays poor on ball defense. Russell is trying and has gotten a lot better since the start of the season. If you watch closely he’s very clever and drops nice passes. His assist numbers will never be great in the Princeton offense. Who runs that anyway? kid almost averages 10 pts a game and he plays with Kobe, Clarkson, Lou, and Swaggy
LKK says
Kev… I think it’s a bit of a stretch to assume that good decision making as far as basketball issues are concerned are passed along through the genes or across generations of ownership groups. Kupchak notwithstanding, it is widely known that Kobe’s acquisition was mainly due to the vision of one Jerry West. Oh, and I’m fully aware of who Ryan West’s dad is. Let’s hope he inherited some of his father’s front office skills, because the team sure can use them.
KevTheBold says
LKK, who said anything about genes?
I’m talking exposure and experience.
Daddy Buss was known for getting his kids involved with the family business.
The same goes for Jerry West, Ryan worked with him for years.
matt says
I watched recent star point guards college tapes to try to see what they were like and how they compared, curry could shoot nba 3s and took an unknown team to the tournament, wall was absolutely a phenomenon very fast he set the pace for the game, rose ran circles around the competition and could not be stopped driving to the basket, lowry could shoot 3s and drive to the hoop at will… when your watch Russell they ran plays around him, the offense moved very fluid and he dominate weaker teams, the games pace looked slow but he found his spots and waited for plays to develop, he had an all around player type of feel, the player he looked like as i watched point guard videos was wilt frazier