Back in February of 2012, the Lakers were a team looking to find its way. Coming out of the NBA lockout, Mike Brown was tasked with coaching the team Phil Jackson departed, trying to pick up the pieces and re-form a group fractured by the attempted trade of Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom for Chris Paul.
Looking back, it was not an easy time at all. Not the lows the team is facing now, but a different sort of struggle where expectations to contend were still high, but coming in a condensed season with a group possessing insane numbers of miles on their legs, looking to achieve what was, in hindsight, well beyond their grasp.
That was the backdrop for comments that Kobe Bryant made to Stephen A. Smith about what his future might hold. Yes, those questions were popping up nearly 4 years ago, before the ruptured achilles, before the team’s plunge into the high lottery. Stephen A. wanted to know if Kobe might one day leave the Lakers to join a better team – a team which might net him that elusive sixth NBA Championship. Kobe shot that down pretty quickly:
“Why would I want to go somewhere else, that ship sailed in (2007),” Bryant said. “If there was ever a time I was going to move to go play someplace else, that was it. I’m not going to jump ship to chase a sixth ring, it’s just not going to happen. It’s going to happen here or it’s not going to happen.”
After Kobe said that, he also had this quote about how long he might play:
“You think I’d hang around and average 18 points, 19 points… hell no.”
We all know what is happening this season. I do not want to pile on Kobe, but his season has been poor. The numbers speak for themselves. I don’t need to paint them in vibrant colors or put them into historical context to sensationalize them. We watch the games, we know he’s not done well. He knows he’s not done well.
This is where that last quote comes into play. Kobe never thought he’d be this guy. He’s a career 25, 5, and 5 guy. The thought of him becoming a guy who would only be getting 18? No chance.
But, Kobe was wrong. And that’s perfectly okay.
Kobe's last 3 games: 28.3 minutes, 16.0 points, 4.7 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 46.3% shooting.
— Darius Soriano (@forumbluegold) December 13, 2015
In his most recent games, Kobe has played well. His stats from the last 3 games came at the end of a brutal 8 game, 12 day road trip and were played in a 4 day stretch, with the final two games in a back to back. The last two games were also played against Kawhi Leonard (and the Spurs’ top ranked defense) and Trevor Ariza (a very good wing defender). I am not trying to prop up Kobe, but the context matters here. He’s played well the last few games and done so against some good players.
Those numbers above, though, are the exact numbers Kobe said he would not hang around for. They’re also the types of numbers I would have been perfectly happy with before the season started. So, now that they’re here, I am happy to see him get them.
Not just because they’re a departure from his play earlier in the year, but because they have come in ways which remind of things he once did. While age and injury have dulled his abilities, the imprint of his once dominant game does show up every now and then…in a nifty bounce pass, a smart off ball cut, the way he accepts a double team while not panicking, in a flare for shot-making.
It’s not the same, but we never thought it would be.
Back in 2013, in the midst of one of his more impressive seasons ever, in his age 34 campaign, Kobe, in the wake of passing Wilt Chamberlain on the all-time leading scorers list, spoke to Dave McMenamin about a career winding down and a retirement which would come in a few more years:
“It’s really just if I want to play,” Bryant said. “I could play. I could change my role completely and play point guard and average 12 assists, you know what I mean? Twenty points and 12 assists. It’s just a matter if I want to play. That’s all.”
Less than two weeks later, Kobe’s achilles tore. After additional injuries which ended his next two seasons, he’s not been the same guy and, sadly, we never got to see the evolution he discussed above. At least not on his own terms. Still, though, his recent few games have offered an approximation of what that might have looked like. Not in the form of raw numbers, but in terms of temperament and approach.
While even those (improved from earlier in the year) numbers are exactly what Kobe said he would not want to become, I’m more than okay with it. And, I’d imagine, nearly four years later, he’d probably say he is too.
Darren says
Missed this.
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From an LA Times article on 12/11/15: Lakers learned their lesson from failure to sign LaMarcus Aldridge, Byron Scott says
An excerpt:
The Lakers’ initial sit-down with Aldridge in July was a turn-off to him, too much style and not enough basketball substance. “I think we looked at it more as a business presentation. It wasn’t basketball, and that’s probably where we made our mistake,” Lakers Coach Byron Scott said Friday. It will change in the future, Scott said, an important concept with the Lakers on the lookout for free agents next summer, notably Kevin Durant.
“Most of these guys want to know the basketball part of it. We’ll change that part as far as most of the meeting, 75% of it or more, will be about the basketball part and then the other part will be a little bit about the business part,” Scott said. “I think we found from a great player that he was more interested in the basketball on-the-court stuff than anything else.”
The Lakers’ pitch to Aldridge included executives from AEG and Time Warner Cable to discuss off-the-court opportunities. The team ran out of time to go in-depth on basketball analytics and requested a follow-up with Aldridge to go over that part.
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My comment: The Jim Buss regime has been a complete embarrassment and amateur hour. While I’m grateful we missed out on a 30 year old stretch four I think that fail has left a bad taste in future free agents’ mouths. Incompetence does not age well.
George Best says
This is a bit harsh. Whether or not you agree with Kobes current role and production and how it causes harm to the team, those quotes were at a time when he was a stud at an advanced age. I am sure he expected a drop off and that may have caused him to reevaluate differently than he is now.
Kobe lost two years immediately after he was still performing at a very high level. He didnt start noticeably declining. He has now come back because he wanted to go out on his terms, which was being on the court playing at a level he did not like,not because of injury.
For Kobe to overcome these injuries and make it back says a lot about him and his pride. He isnt exactly surrounded by top players. Are the circumstances ideal? no. Does he hurt his legacy a little by playing now? Maybe. However, his sticking around these past two years allows us to hit rock bottom and get one(Russell) and maybe two(Simmons?) players who we werent going to get otherwise versus him leaving and us signing some mediocre free agents(heaven forbid Carmelo) and winning 35-45 games with no chance to win a title.
I think Kobe should not be judged on what he said pre injury in light of what happened and the need for him to get back on the floor before retiring. He deserves that.
Darren says
Sorry, I’m a first time poster and I let my emotions get the better of me. I don’t have much confidence in the Lakers FO right now. I caught sight of the Time article and read it. I became very frustrated because nothing is working out as planned for the team. Things are turning out as if there was no roadmap or anyone thinking beyond the current season.
– Coach Scott talks about how the process for future free agent meetings will change. Yet, we’re pretty sure that BS won’t even be the coach beyond this year — why is he making that comment.
– The LA fiasco just rubs me wrong. We had no business chasing a 30 year old who would be on the downside of his career by the time the kids figured the league out. That made no sense to me.
– The fact that the FO blew the LA meeting sets a very poor precedence for future free agent meetings. Reputations stick to people and the Buss kids are developing the wrong kind.
– Scott said, “Most of these guys want to know the basketball part of it.” Ya, think Jim, Mitch and Byron?
– This FO runs things as if they will magically come together by wishing it to be true. Other than the kids this FO has not acquired one young player that can be part of the Lakers future. When you look at our record and the steep climb out from the bottom you’re going to need more than three players (four if you count Nance, who is redundant with Randle as they both play the same position and neither can shoot beyond 15 feet).
It doesn’t speak well for your FO when for the third year in a row the best in season solution is to tank.
bluehill says
These last few games do seem to indicate a degree of acceptance of the player he has become. It is sad that Kobe couldn’t go out the way that he imagined. Most players would love to be able to put his numbers from the last three games, but that just shows how prolific Kobe was in his prime. It seems like he’s enjoying himself more now and I hope that continues for the rest of the year.
Darius Soriano says
George,
I’m not trying to judge Kobe. I’m trying to say I’m happy he’s playing better lately & that he should be too. That after the injuries and age have turned him into a player he did not envision, he’s shown out well lately & seemingly starting to embrace that guy. Sorry my piece wasn’t clear.
Anonymous says
Any news on how has the FO/Scott meeting turned out?
Jim C. says
This is the version of Kobe Bryant that I was hoping to see this year.
It makes me wonder if even Kobe has now accepted the fact that he’s never going to be a player even remotely close to what he was before the Achilles Tear. If so, then I think he could have a lot to contribute to the youngsters’ development.
It also shows a self-awareness that is both surprising and a bit touching. What must it be like to be absolutely convinced that you’re the best at something in the entire world, to the point that he’s willing to try and shoot his way out of what he thinks is just a bad slump for over a quarter of the season before finally accepting the truth?
Anonymous says
Things are turning out as if there was no roadmap or anyone thinking beyond the current season.
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Well, you’re right. In the long run it’s best that the sign two elite free agents strategy didn’t work out. The correct approach was always to bottom out this thing out. But as we all can see it’s painful and ugly. And since the Lakers don’t own their draft picks outright it’s also a risky one.
There will be plenty of casualties. Right now the FO can just dump head coaches (MB, MDA and soon BS) but at some point, if this doesn’t start to look better on the court and in the media, Jim and Mitch will be held accountable. Jeanie’s got them both on a timer and only a ‘hail mary’ in the form of Ben Simmons may save them.
The Lakers are shaky on the floor, on the sidelines and in the FO. Its a chicken and egg thing — one of these areas has got to show stability/progress for the other pieces to fall into place. It’s heads or tail as to whether the Lakers are 2 – 3 years away from turning this thing around or much, much longer.
matt says
Why are we quoting boob scott on management decisions, he can’t even coach
Anonymous says
The Lakers are shaky on the floor, on the sidelines and in the FO.
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So, you’re saying the Lakers lack organizational stability and credibility?
matt says
Like i said before mitch is very sneaky, do you even think they were serious about alderidge and the year prior mellow, they are orchestrating a rebuild plan right now. And it did not include being a contender until kobe is gone
matt says
Scott , mitch meeting, mitch uses jedi mind trick on scott to make him think they seriously wana win this year.
matt says
Also I’d like to note how fake some of these players look being gracious to kobe on his farewell tour, we all know how much he’s hated, recently Dwight howard hugs kobe like they are bros
matt says
Matter of fact you might say byron was hired to do exactly what he’s doing
Anonymous says
Like i said before mitch is very sneaky, do you even think they were serious about alderidge and the year prior mellow, they are orchestrating a rebuild plan right now. And it did not include being a contender until kobe is gone
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I don’t think Jim is that smart. Plus, is Jim’s very public promise to make the Conference Finals next year all part of the ‘sneaky plan’ as well? Is Jeanie aware of this specific rebuilding plan? Or does she see what we all see — someone completely in over their head?
matt says
Do you think they really intended to win with lin and boozer, and now hibbert and kobe with 3 rookies, waiting for right time is better than signing wesley matthews and tyson chandler
matt says
I’d rather have them be this bad and clear salary next year then barely make playoffs, they drafted randle a steal, drafted russell looking good, and are only going after top dog free agents
Anonymous says
So the FO is intentionally stealth tanking in an effort to rebuild the franchise. To do so they must essentially lie to the fan base, sponsors and Jeanie. To accomplish the intentional stealth tank Jim will:
1) spend hundreds of millions of dollars (over three years) in player salaries – bad players mind you — but the money was real — with no intention of winning
2) hire incompetent high profile coaches (MB, MDA and BS)
3) bypass young emerging free agents and focus on aging elites with a lot of age/miles
4) intentionally make fools of themselves in highly publicized free agent meetings (Melo, LA etc) by talking about everything else other than basketball
5) chase meaningless wins at the end of each of the last two seasons, which negatively impacted draft positioning
6) tell the LA Times that he has a plan to get the Lakers into the Conference Finals by the 2016/17 season, or he’ll resign …
… all in an effort to rebuild through the draft by using draft picks that the Lakers didn’t control outright. OK, yes, that does sound like a plan that Jim would cook-up.
Sean says
How would Kobe have known he would be the player he did not envision to be (scoring less than 18-19 ppg) without actually playing? No way for him to know what kind of production he could have on the court without actually playing. Perhaps this is why Kobe decided to abruptly announce his retirement after playing some games this season – feeling/seeing his play (which had been poor). But obviously, I haven’t a clue what Kobe’s intention is/was.
matt says
How are they in over their heads, kobe signing is working out for them, and not committed to any overpaid players, patience might pay off for them.
matt says
Also all teams gotta pay a minimum salary
matt says
Why is everyone on jims nuts do you all think he is a solo decision maker. I don’t even mention jim.
Dwight says
… all in an effort to rebuild through the draft by using draft picks that the Lakers didn’t control outright. OK, yes, that does sound like a plan that Jim would cook-up.
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Good post, made me laugh.
matt says
Did they not have a protected pick
Alan says
Why is everyone on jims nuts do you all think he is a solo decision maker. I don’t even mention jim.
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Jim is the head of basketball operations. In that capacity he is Mitch’s boss. Jeanie is on record as saying that she doesn’t understand personnel decisions. So the buck stops with Jim on the basketball side of the equation.
Mid-Wilshire says
Here’s a link to last night’s D League game. I’ve never seen Tarik Black play above the rim like this before. Also, his P&R skills seem very highly developed. Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNg-9A3_U90
Alan says
Did they not have a protected pick
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There was a 35% chance they would lose the pick last year and a 45% chance they lose it this draft. Virtually a coin flip this year that they lose a lot of games and walk away with nothing.
FO looks like heroes if they pull off a Ben Simmons. Not so good if they come up empty.
Alan says
and are only going after top dog free agents
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just curious, which top dog free agents?
matt says
You know what I’m done, yall (sarcasm) right
matt says
Where were the warriors when the lakers were winning titles
Robert says
Darren: “It doesn’t speak well for your FO when for the third year in a row the best in season solution is to tank.” No it doesn’t speak too well. Hang in there and keep posting.
Ano: “Jim and Mitch will be held accountable” Our future depends on it.
matt: “do you all think he is a solo decision maker” No – but he should not be a day to day – basketball ops decision maker at all. Please make a case that he should be. If you were starting a franchise, would you hire him to lead basketball ops?
stats says
@Mid-Wilshire – Thanks. Was beginning to worry about Black; since he’s been MIA for so long, I was beginning to think some he was the victim of some nefarious deed.
Black hightlights my biggest problem with BS: he doesn’t know what to do with bigs. Whether it is Bass playing out of position, or not developing Black, etc. Sigh…
matt says
Alan who should they have signed
matt says
Im not making a case for jim, I’m saying they did right by not committing to anyone these last two years, kobe deal was good business and shows others you take care of your players also it lines up with free agent market
Alan says
Alan who should they have signed
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Once Kobe went down with the Achilles, in my mind, the Lakers ceased to be a win now organization. So everything after April 12, 2013 should have been about the post Kobe Lakers. It’s brutal but I’m just being pragmatic.
I would have traded Pau that summer. I would have hired Brad Stevens as my coach and face of the franchise (he was top of mind as I wanted him as the UCLA coach and once he turned the Bruins down I thought the Lakers should pursue him). I would have traded Hill, Kaman, Young and Meeks by the 2013/14 trade deadline. I would have tanked hard for Wiggins.
After the 2014 draft I would have had to be aggressive in free agency. Remember, other that the picks and a hurt Kobe I’ve got nothing on the roster. I would have signed Greg Monroe as a RFA (Detroit would have let him go), I might have also pursued Eric Bledsoe also a RFA (overpay or Phoenix may have matched).
So let’s say the 2014 draft played out as it did and the Lakers got Randle and Clarkson. Its possible that my 2014/15 Lakers had a core of Monroe (24), Bledose (24), Randle (19) and Clarkson (22).
This team likely would have played too well to keep the Russell pick so no DAR in my Lakers future. However, its possible that this young exciting team would have attracted some recent 2015 RFAs. Perhaps, Khris Middleton (24) or a Tobias Harris (23) would be open to a poison pill contract to be my SF.
So there you have it: Brad Stevens is my coach. I have a young core of Monroe (C), Randle (PF), Harris (SF), Clarkson (SG) and Beldsoe (PG) with Kobe off the bench. I don’t know
how folks think that team would fair record wise — however, I have a feeling they would be better than 3-21.
matt says
With that miracle happening formation of a team, you still dont beat golden state, clippers, okc, and spurs, so whats the point
matt says
In 2 years okc, clippers, and spurs are downward
matt says
At least you responded,,thanks
KO says
When did this turn into a twitter account?
Tra says
allows us to hit rock bottom
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Finishing with the 2nd worst record in the Association – which, in all likelihood, we will – and still losing our pick to Philly. Now that, IMO, is what I would consider Rock Bottom.
Alan says
With that miracle happening formation of a team, you still dont beat golden state, clippers, okc, and spurs, so whats the point
—–
i answered your question. So, who are the top dog free agents you referred to?
rr says
Nice post by Anon at 248 pm.
rr says
Darren,
Welcome to the site.
Tonefinder says
KO, was that you on the air today with John Ireland at ESPN radio?
Chearn says
I liked the posts at 1:08 and 2:48 by Anonymous!
mud says
Darius, i don’t know what you mean. he said he would retire if he became that guy and that’s just what he’s doing. he’s not sticking around.
Todd says
Posts at 1:08 and 2:48 are mine. I was feeling a bit extra snarky (sorry George) and forgot to sign my name.
rr says
Byron and Mitch: For the people who want Byron gone yesterday, just because Mitch didn’t throw much shade at him in public that doesn’t mean that the FO won’t fire him. That said, with the team at 3-21 and back home from a long trip, now would be a logical time to do it if they are going to. The 76ers just shook things up.
Kobe: I would echo those who said that Kobe couldn’t really know he was going to be like this until it happened. He played 6 games in 2013-14 and 21 games last year, so I think it is understandable that he thought he could do more than he can and that he needed about 20 mostly awful games to (seemingly) face the truth. It was the FO who should have known better when they offered the deal and it was Byron who should reined Kobe in on in the 3s sooner.
Stealth Tank: Todd delivers the money post again. Another thing that I have never really gotten about that narrative is why it would help the team with the fanbase. Telling everyone that you are trying to win 40-45 games, but really winning 25 or fewer doesn’t seem like a good way to build the brand to me, unless the brand is built on looking dumb. If the idea is ticket sales, well, they have Kobe and two lottery picks for that. This year’s marketing pitch/business angle is simply Come say Goodbye to Kobe and Hello to the Next Generation. And you don’t need guys like Williams and BB for that. Also, a few people, including one in this thread, have referenced the salary floor as part of Stealth Tank. As I have pointed out before, nothing happens if a team comes in under the floor, other than they have to pay out the money to the guys who were on the team at the end of the year.
KO says
Tone
Yep. Always throwing my junk out there. John takes my call because he grew up in Corona Del Mar where I live.
BigCitySid says
– Bottom line, last 3 seasons, worst 3 consecutive seasons in franchise history. That goes on everyone’s resume involved.
Vasheed says
Thanks Darius,
I understand Kobe did not envision playing on as a guy scoring 18 points per game. However, I think he would rather be the guy who scored 16 pts per game efficiently than the guy who puts up 25 shots per game mostly from the 3pt line while hitting about 25% of his shots.
I’d be happy with a Kobe that finishes his career letting the game come to him than trying to force things that he can’t do anymore.
J C says
There are plenty of extremely effective players “only” averaging 18 or 19 points – or less – but it was natural for the younger Kobe to scoff at that notion.
Now that he’s a bit older, he’s a bit wiser.
I really hope this most recent trend will continue and that Kobe’s recognition of his basketball mortality mellows him for once and for all.
Ironically, his recent relaxed attitude about leading the team in scoring, along with enjoying the success of his teammates and sharing the limelight, now makes him an even more effective and valuable leader.
Dwight says
Just curious – isn’t today the day that recently signed free agents can be traded? If yes, Williams and Bass should be shopped hard.
rr says
Bottom line, last 3 seasons, worst 3 consecutive seasons in franchise history. That goes on everyone’s resume involved.–
Sure. But like I said a few weeks ago when people were talking about Kobe hurting his legacy, Kobe has the five rings/two Gold Medals/3rd on scoring list. Mitch has Gold Medal/ten rings/two champions as GM. Even the beleaguered Byron has three rings as a player and coached two Finals teams. But if this doesn’t turn around and he is forced out, this iteration of the Lakers will probably pretty much define Jim Buss’ public image for the rest of his life.
LordMo says
@ BigCitySid
Thank you enuf said!
So this is the culmination of the 3 yr plan? Think all in the organization now know this is a full on rebuild…let’s get er’ done!
Dwight says
No one commented on it but I kind of liked Alan’s plan on who the Lakers should have pursued in previous years. Even if Bledsoe was a likely reach (the Suns would not have let him go to a division rival). A core of Monroe, Randle and Clarkson might well have attracted some additional young talent (Harris or Middleton) this past summer.
That young team may have had enough pull to make KD think about signing on this summer. The current Lakers won’t get anything more than a courtesy meeting at the urging of KD’s agent (who has to see the big picture).
While, I know you can’t turn the clock back its interesting to note that there were other options in moving the team forward than the sign multiple elite free agents or bust approach that Jim pursued.
Fulofunk says
Mid-Wilshire,
Thanks for the D-League clip of Kelly, Brown, and…….finally…..TARIK BLACK! Awesome footage!
harold says
Kobe learned his limits pretty quickly into this season, went through denial, and then realized that the end was there, and announced his retirement. He still had some doubts but I think it’s out of his system. He will of course have nights where he thinks he’s feeling good and impose himself, but I see them coming few and far inbetween as he wrestles with the idea of padding his stats a bit (although it’s a lost cause and he will never admit it).
As for the Lakers, we’re tanking, like it or not, intentional or not. I am not sure if that’s going to do any good, and we will need a huge philosophical change although I think the FO will try to stick to its strategy one last time to see if FAs react to Kobe no longer being with the Lakers and try luring in established talent.
It will also be interesting to see where all the pieces fit and what kind of a vision they would have in the new Golden State era of 5 multi-positional players stretching the court.
KevTheBold says
The Front office: Paint brushes are easy to use, they can color a whole wall in a few strokes, covering up a multitude of dissimilar materials used in its construction, and cracks which branch out in different directions, like roads on a map.
The same as with any organization, our front office has an assortment of mindsets, methods and attitudes; and the power structure can mitigate common sense.
I believe that they are struggling to find their footing after Jerry’s passing, and trying to avoid a power struggle. So yes, mistakes have been made; kind, yet silly blunders based mostly on misguided loyalty to individuals, at the expense of the team.
Regardless, we can do nothing about it but hope that Jerry passed on some of his wisdom to at least one of his kids; though most likely each one has areas of strength, which can be combined at some stage to create a wholesome team.
I believe that Jim thought, from either his own assessments, or advice, that our team had assembled enough pieces to make us competitive.
I also believe that there was a backup plan in place just in case, which was to tank.
Who knows if Jim was aware of the secondary plan, and does it really matter?
There are people surrounding him which have more experience, yet not the power to make their moves obvious.
In addition, the front office is controlled to a large extent by public opinion, from which the money flows.
For example, there is a huge disconnect between the public perception how a team rebuilds, and reality of how it actually occurs, in the vast majority of cases.
Too many think that attracting free agents to rescue a team, is the norm, when it represents a rare exception.
The reasons for the free agent myth, are tied to impatience, and ignorance of history.
This belief however creates a strong vortex of a vacuum, which must be filled by words.
Meaningless words for the most part, but they quiet the noise and frustration for a time.
So yes, all teams pursue star free agents like a reflex action, yet the only ones who believe in their chances are fans who, like children, who believe in Santa.
Not only do most star quality free agents stay home, the ones that move, rarely make the advertised impact.
They are, 99% of them, missing that rare element which gives them the power to take over a game and win it, no matter the odds, thus a move to another city won’t make a difference.
Fact: most championship teams are built on trades and drafts.
Not a glorious process, and to some, even an embarrassment; but it should not be.
Yes the process takes time, yet it allows one to build to specification and meld a team into a culture of family which equates to trust, and Unity.
Free agents can disrupt that unity. They come with differing values and concepts infused into their minds and bodies, from another system, another city, another time.
Back to Draft picks: Luckily for us, we have three, maybe up to 5 building blocks in place which could carry us over the top In Time; and at least one of those, has super star potential, the rare type which can take over a game and win it for our side.
That alone enough gives me all the patience I require, and allows me to enjoy the games not seeking wins, but growth.
marques says
People will eventually have to understand that the Lakers and Knicks are no longer the top places to play. The money is good everywhere, you can be a star anywhere, and more importantly the pressure to win is too much for the new generation.
They have the money, they want a ready made team and less pressure.
Lakers and Knicks will suck for a long while.
rr says
For example, there is a huge disconnect between the public perception how a team rebuilds, and reality of how it actually occurs, in the vast majority of cases.
Too many think that attracting free agents to rescue a team, is the norm, when it represents a rare exception.
The reasons for the free agent myth, are tied to impatience, and ignorance of history.
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FO defenders here have used this argument a couple of times; and, like you, suggested that it is the ignorant and impatient fanbase/public that buys into free agency too much and have tried to mitigate the FO’s responsibility. In response, I pointed out that Jim Buss said, emphatically, in public, that his plan was to get two max free agents and Buss and Kupchak have said any number of times that they are prioritizing financial flexibility and as we have seen, they have indeed done so instead of trying to stabilize the roster. We see a contrast here with the Knicks. Phil gave multi-year deals to several lunch-bucket type players (Robin Lopez, Arron Afflalo, Kyle O’Quinn, Derrick Williams) in an attempt to improve the Knicks D, change the team’s culture, create some stability, etc. We will see if it works. Right now, the Knicks have a better team than the Lakers do. Also, one reason the Lakers FO has talked about FAs so much is that they have little choice. The FO traded away six draft picks, including four first-rounders, in the Nash and Howard deals, and as is well-known to most Lakers fans, still owe two of them. Finally, if the Lakers FO is making decisions based in part on fans’ opinions, as you suggest, then that is a far worse indictment of them than anything FO critics might be saying.
Finally, I note that like some others, you use the time-honored public phrase of spin: mistakes have been made. Indeed. And Jim Buss runs the FO that made them. You can type those words and still support him.
KevTheBold says
Perfect example which proves my point.
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marques December 15, 2015 at 1:08 pm
People will eventually have to understand that the Lakers and Knicks are no longer the top places to play. The money is good everywhere, you can be a star anywhere, and more importantly the pressure to win is too much for the new generation.
They have the money, they want a ready made team and less pressure.
Lakers and Knicks will suck for a long while.
————————————————————————-
The only free major free agent the Lakers ever snagged was Shaq.
The rest – Drafts and Trades.
We don’t need free agents, only patience and time.
In the addition, the Lakers will never suck, we have a history which is beyond such nonsense.
We simply reboot.
@ rr, your war against the front office though admirable to some, is from a birds eye perspective like beating a horse for carrying a bandit.
As I pointed out in my long post above, the front office needs to feed the hype machine, because it’s the fan base, and our wallets, which hold the nozzle that fuels the machine.
Thus in order to change the system, we need to educate the public, and the front office will then follow suit: not the other way around.
Anonymous says
Thus in order to change the system, we need to educate the public, and the front office will then follow suit: not the other way around.
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No, the FO simply needs to begin to make progress on the floor. That makes any dialogue with the fans easier.
Phil entered into a similar mess with the Knicks and as rr pointed out he hasn’t struggled in communicating the fact that there is a new path forward. It bears out with more wins and fewer losses.
Jim’s plan has produced 27 and 21 wins the last two years and is on pace for 10 this year. Maybe the FO should stop feeding the hype machine and put together a plan that will actually produce wins.
What a novel concept.
rr says
Kev,
I am just trying to provide some specific facts and basic points to counterweight your philosophizing. I find it interesting that you seem to see yourself as somehow separate from typical fans, and in a role such that you can educate us/them and therefore help the front office with its PR problems. My take is that the Lakers FO will have PR problems until they either land Ben Simmons and/or the team starts winning some games and what various types of fans say on the internet won’t change that. In the meantime, as you say, all there is watching the young guys, and for those who enjoy him, Kobe.
The Lakers are this bad for the same reasons any other bad team gets this bad: a combination of bad luck and bad decisions. That is not all on the FO, but some of it is. One problem that Buss and Sam Hinkie have right now is that there are very few really bad teams in the NBA at the moment. The second and third-tiers of the East are better than they have been (Charlotte, New York, Indiana, Miami, Detroit, Boston, Orlando) and the other Western Conference lottery teams all have some real talent on them (Portland, Minnesota, Sacramento, New Orleans, Denver). So, a team that is really bad has a rough go—hence the Lakers and 76ers combined record of 4-46.
KevTheBold says
Anonymous: You miss the whole point.
There will be no wins without going through the necessary process of losing, drafting, trading and training.
What a novel concept.
KevTheBold says
@rr,.. I have already said that they have made some mistakes, so please don’t paint me as a blind supporter just because I tend to see beyond black and white.
Regarding ‘Philosophizing’ as you put it, it’s on your end, not mine.
Laker history with regards to free agents, trades, and drafts, speaks for itself as fact.
In addition, not all fans will willfully ignore the facts regarding free agents, and can see well enough to know that what we are told by the media, front offices, politicians ect. is what they believe will shut us up, while they go about doing what either they want to, or need to.
We spenders, and voters do have the real power.
It’s those which drive the train, which would like us to believe otherwise.
Which side are you on?
LordMo says
Lol…eaze up fellas! We stink plain and simple and prolly will for the next few years. Which is ok if you truly have a roadmap. We fault Buss but Mitch K ain’t doing to hot on his own either. People forget but Jerry West made or was involved in every big time move the Lakers made. Mitch left to his own drafted Jarvis Crittenden…I rest my case.
Pressure will force changes sooner or later!
rr says
Regarding ‘Philosophizing’ as you put it, it’s on your end, not mine.
Laker history with regards to free agents, trades, and drafts, speaks for itself as fact
The first statement is wrong—I am not the one holding forth about the nature of optimism and claiming to have the bird’s eye view, being the sage who will educate the ignorant, etc. As to the second statement, many people here, including me, have made that point: the only franchise-anchoring star the Lakers have gotten through FA is Shaq. After Kobe blew out the Achilles and Howard walked, Jim could have announced that the Lakers were going to work on a slow rebuild and would not go after big-name veteran FAs until they had a more stable talent base. Instead, he talked about getting two max guys and promised to resign if the team was not in the WCF in three years. No one forced the Lakers to meet with Aldridge or to offer Anthony a max deal; your argument appears to be that this was done based on fan ignorance and the commercial pressures thereof; I would counter that by saying rising above such concerns to look at the big picture is part of the job of basketball ops people. Jim Buss was not elected by the fans to run the team and doesn’t have to run for his job like a pol does, and the best way to keep customers when the team is bad is to have a clear plan and some young guys worth watching.
KevTheBold says
Well rr, I know what I know and make no apologies about it.
What? Not enough imo-s for the likes of you?
Oh, so I’m the self appointed sage, and what about you?
The near sighted revolutionary?
The rebel without a pause?
You keep going on about the front office from such a nose to the billboard perspective, that you can’t see past your charts and time tables.
Back up a bit buster!
With all the impatient and misguided fans out there who are holding the purse strings, you actually expect full disclosure from the front office?
If so, I wonder how your voting record has turned out.
Listen rr, the Busses have made some blunders after their fathers passing, but they did so mostly out of kindness and misplaced loyalty.
Jerry however has earned enough back pay, for us to give his kids the time and grace to right the ship, and they are making progress towards the future.
Speaking of the future, do you really want to paint yourself in a corner?
After every Laker reboot, there are people such as you, who stand outside the stadium doors, with pitch forks and torches in the night, only to find themselves all alone in the morning light, feeling cold, hungry, and foolish.
Come on back, keep your ears plugged, and just enjoy the process until we regain our proper place in the scheme of things.
LordMo says
Guys great posts both sides valid points from each. But I know I been on both sides. I was angry at the front office for the blatant mismanagement and outright bad decision making. But it seems all in the FO have decided to embrace the youth movement. I’m excited about the youngsters and the future. Thank you KB24…Truly a what a great Laker you have been. I will never forget how you scorched the Mavs for me each time you came to Dallas!