The Lakers are in that weird in-between time where they have a head coach, but since he’s still working for another team others have to speak for him. So, here’s Mitch Kupchak speaking on how Luke Walton’s past has informed his coaching perspective and the style he envisions the Lakers’ playing. There’s insight to be gained from those comments, but in reality, until we get those comments from the horse’s mouth with more detail in the plan to make those things happen, there’s really very little to learn there.
Kupchack’s comments on building a better roster, though, those have more meaning. Him acknowledging the team needs to get not just better players, but players who can play in the style Walton projects to play is important. Saying these things about a team which won 17 games this past year seems like the obvious thing to do, but considering the team has seen a decline in wins for three straight years while also still paying lip service to “wanting to compete for championships”, these outright admissions are somewhat refreshing to me.
Staying on that theme, then, the biggest thing I took from Kupchak’s comments was him openly stating — several times in fact — that a main goal for next season is to have a team which would be entertaining and fun to watch. Adding that growth will not just be measured in winning more games, but in the progress the players make over a sustained period.
On the one hand, the cynic might say “of course the Lakers want to play an entertaining style, they have a TV contract to honor and with Kobe retiring, they need to play a fun style of ball to keep eyeballs on the screens“. There’s truth in that, of course. Kobe’s farewell tour helped pack arenas and kept fans tuning into games to watch the final moments of a legend’s career. The Lakers also have history in this area, moving on from Magic Johnson’s abrupt retirement to just a few years later morphing into the “LakeShow” teams which spawned a cult following and much fan interest even though they were not title contenders.
On the other hand, though, there’s a liberating feeling for me in comments which remove the facade that came in the past few years where, even though we all knew the team would be lucky to make the postseason, the rhetoric too often made it sound as though this team was still contending for something. Kupchack openly stating that maybe, if the team can really improve — really improve — the talent base, they can compete for a playoff spot or even go further is not new, but saying it more as wishful thinking than anything else is — and it is refreshing.
I understand that sounds strange. I am openly happy about the General Manager downplaying the Lakers’ chances and making it seem like they are far away from being a good team. But, the reality is, this is closer to the truth than anything else.
Maybe Kobe’s retirement has allowed them to (finally) publicly state this. During his career, the “championship or bust” mindset was borne as much from his relentless pursuit of titles as validation as his prodigious talent which allowed everyone else to believe those goals were possible. Of course, in recent seasons, we knew that was no longer true. But the comments of that being the “end goal” remained. Now, though, Kupchack says he just wants a team which is fun to watch and shows improvement that will be measured in weeks, not days.
This truly is a new era of Lakers’ basketball. I, for one, welcome it.
Chris J says
The lottery gods will have a huge say in how Mitch’s summer plays out, and what type of first season Walton will have before him. Good or bad luck, I’m glad that management seems willing to give Luke the time he’ll need to reshape the on-floor product, which won’t be fully realized after one or two seasons. Young coach, young roster … both need time to come together.
T Young says
Im just a casual nba fan but you cannot playing fun bball w/out wining. it doesnt matter what style you playing but if you dont win it will get old quick
Chibi says
W/o shooting, lakers will look more like the Livingston Barbosa Warriors than curry Thompson warriors.
bleedpurplegold says
Chibi: even that would be a major upgrade
I really do wonder if mitch has some aces up his sleeve he hasnt told us about. his comments about potentially competing for more than a playoff spot makes me wonder, wouldnt be the first time mitch has shown his magic. Rumor has it we will go hard after george, even though the pacers FO categorically denied trading him. However, i could see it happening, of course depending on what we are willing to give up for his services.
As a sidenote: thon maker is expected to go late in the first round. I think it could be worth moving up a couple of spots. Hope mitch considers this as well
Warren Wee Lim says
I’ve always said this, and I’ve heard Darius talk about it as well… the last few coaches we’ve had, had players that didn’t fit what they wanted to do. Square peg round hole.
The time we hired MDA, that team had 2 of the league’s better big men, Kobe who also posts, Metta and such… wasn’t a run and gun team. The only run-and-gun guy we had there were: Steve Nash, Jodie Meeks and Wesley Johnson. The rest were simply out of place and you can’t possibly be teaching a very smart Pau Gasol how to shoot threes at the 13th year of his professional career. That is the reason why I’ve begged for the team to trade Pau… coz we just acquired Dwight and there wasn’t room for 2 big men in the lineup. Earl Clark, even flourished a bit there.
A year later when Dwight left, we had Gasol as the lone big man on the team. He was going to play center, and we got players like Shawne Williams, Wesley Johnson and such to make it work. So it didn’t. Gasol left, we had Jordan Hill. Just as the team was about to be moulded into a run-and-gun team, we fired MDA and replaced him w/ a complete polar opposite in terms of philosophy and style in BS. Just when our roster now was starting to evolve into MDA’s system.
Because we sought the biggest names and foregone the other complimentary pieces, we’ve let go of solid guys like Jodie Meeks, Ed Davis who would otherwise be good role players on a team that requires the kids to be the stars.
I’m hopeful that Mitch finally “buys” Walton the kind of players his system needs to run. That was the trouble with the last few hires… they were done midseason and after FA. For what its worth, you don’t see top free agents clawing their way to play for Byron Scott. Ewww.
BigCitySid says
– Needless to say, as of this date, there are just too many “ifs” to specifically know the Lakers game plan. However one thing I believe most will agree on, this years’ goals are clear, win games while developing it’s young players & acquiring additional talent for future success. While may sound incredibly logical, this hasn’t been the case for our Lakers for sometime.
– I also choose to believe this team is on the right track. Mainly because of their coaching hire. For the 1st time since Phil Jackson patrolled the sidelines, the Lakers actually hired a coach who had other choices. No one was offering their three previous coaches (Scott, D’Antoni, & Brown) HC jobs. This tells me the Laker job and the clubs goals are realistic probabilities.
– Personally I don’t mind attaching a minimum numerical win goal for 2016-2017 of 30 wins. Reason is simple. The five worst Laker seasons “featured” less than 30 wins, with the last three years being a part of that humbling experience. What better way to separate and close that negative period.
– The goal for #17 has started, let’s go Lakers.
– P.S.: No max $$’s for DeRozen or H. Barnes.
J C says
Its all about May 17.
TempleOfJamesWorthy says
While I hope that Luke Walton succeeds in implementing a Warriors-type style of play (which is fun to watch) and succeeds with it, I remind everyone Mike Brown, MDA and Byron Scott had plausible justifications for their plans as well.
In retrospect it seems obvious they were doomed to failure, but we don’t know what would have happened had the Chris Paul trade not been voided, had Lamar Odom not space-cadeted, had Steve Nash not suffered a career-ending injury, had Howard and Gasol been less “Wahhhh! I wanna post up!” whiny, had Kobe not blown out his Achilles tendon, had Julius Randle not broken his leg, etc., etc., etc.
I think Walton will probably be a fine coach, and I am enthusiastic about the potential of the current Lakers youngsters. But many things can go wrong. More injuries can happen. A bad turn of lottery luck can happen. Lakers cap space and team cachet being meaningless to significant free agents can happen (and, arguably, already has happened).
Hopefully, it will take the Lakers a lot less time (1977 – 2014) than it took the currently-lauded Warriors to get back among the NBA elite.
A Horse With No Name says
Warren: In the last thread you opine that a DeRozan signing is likely and then proffer his stats to bolster the logic of said signing. Here you suggest that management should do Luke the favor of signing players to fit his system (no more square pegs in round holes). So, with all due respect, how does a mediocre distance shooter and poor passer fit Luke’s offense? As I said before, I will be shocked if management pursues DeRozan. Don’t see it at all.
p.s. I like your bargain signing suggestions.
rr says
DeRozan’s team making the ECF almost certainly makes it less likely that he will bail.
Hale says
If I recall correctly, the FO told Ed Davis that they wanted him and he agreed to hold out until they got clarity on the big fish first… A first right of refusal sort of thing. Portland came with a big offer early in free agency and he jumped on it immediately. No blood, no foul. The Lakers probably wouldn’t have matched that offer anyway.
KevTheBold says
Now that we have signed the perfect young coach for our young squad, there is no pressure to win now, only to improve.
Games that are competitive or at least progressive in the various elements which fit together to comprise a contender will be interesting to observe; being fun and exciting is just a bonus.
From hardships, strife and even losing one can earn the gems of wisdom, as long as you continue to push and keep your embers of desire stoked.
I have no doubt that our core and coach understand this.
I just wish that more fans would see that the most brilliant rays of sunshine are those which burst from gray clouds, the happiest times follow dreary days, and lessons learned create the right responses from which success is derived.
But alas, I fear Walton will be unfairly pressured by a fan base which has been rubbed raw by years of bad luck and worse planning.
I just hope he will let the impatience slide to the side, and keep on the timetable which is correct for this team to form into a strong and cohesive unit.
Robert says
Kev: I guarantee you that it will not be Walton that I will be putting the pressure on : )
KO says
So Jim Buss alerts?
Pat says
I’m not sure Whiteside is the answer. Reports were that the Heat had a tough time getting him focused. What will he be like when he gets that 4/$92mil deal?
Thinking that a safer approach is Barnes and Leonard. I saw that posted in a previous thread and at first I said no, because I wanted the. Big guys: KD/Whiteside/DeRozan. But KD is staying I believe, Whitseide may be a talented head case and DeRozan can’t shoot.
We could likely get Barnes for $18 and Leonard for $10 — we improve the talent and chemistry (both are hard working good character guys). This helps us improve on the floor and sets the stage for the summer of 2017. Plus they’re really young, both 23 and they play positions of need.
Gary says
But alas, I fear Walton will be unfairly pressured by a fan base which has been rubbed raw by years of bad luck and worse planning.
—
Walton won’t be under the gun. The FO will be — big time.
rr says
Walton won’t be under the gun. The FO will be — big time.
—
Correct. Someone said that the Lakers are essentially rebuilding around Walton, and in an email to a buddy the other day, I said that Walton will actually be the face of the franchise, along with Ingram or Simmons if they get one of them. There is no star like Kobe, no respected veteran role player like Fisher, no can’t-miss young guy, no Jerry West, no Jerry Buss, no Phil Jackson, and, heck, no Chick Hearn. Most of the fanbase bags on either Jim or Jeanie, or on both, and their feud is a largely a source of contemptuous bemusement outside of the fanbase. Neither is widely seen as a likely architect of a Lakers renaissance.
Kupchak is the closest person the Lakers have to that, and of course he represents stability. He is a respected old-time basketball man, but his sabermetric cred is questioned by many, he is in his 60s, he has never been a dynamic public figure, and I do not think there is a widespread belief outside of a subset of the fanbase that Kupchak will for sure bring the Lakers back if given more time.
So, a lot of the hope, and what cred there is, rests with Walton, and therefore I think that Walton may profoundly affect what eventually happens with Jim/Jeanie/Phil even though Jim is Luke’s boss.
Mid-Wilshire says
For those of you championing the recruiting of Myers Leonard, I hate to say it but I think the chances of his leaving Portland this summer are slim. For one thing, Leonard is a Restricted Free Agent. It is notoriously difficult to recruit RFAs. Secondly, I seriously doubt that any team would bid $10 Million or more for Myers Leonard. He’s a nice role player but with so many other options available, he’ll probably be nothing more than an after thought in this summer’s Free Agent feeding frenzy.
However, I think that there could be some serious bidding for Bismack Biyombo (whose name I love). Last season he averaged 22:02 minutes per game, 5.5 ppg (his offensive game is very raw), 8.0 rebounds and 1.6 blocks per game. These last two figures are outstanding. In his last playoff game recently against Miami, in 40:58 he had 17 points (6-8 shooting, mostly dunks), 16 rebounds, 1 assist, and 2 blocks. Miami went small and Biyombo punished them. He’s not a starting-caliber center. But he is a strong contributor. Also, he’s only 23 years old (birthday: August 29, 1992).
If Whiteside isn’t available (and I expect the Lakers to pursue him hard), Biyombo could be a nice plan B. Another possibility could be Joakhim Noah who is, of course, 31 years old and is coming off a devastating injury to his shoulder.
One way or the other, the Lakers must find a center…again.
As for Kevin Durant and DeMar DeRozan, I expect them to stay put. I do not foresee them changing teams.
LKK says
Whiteside’s current injury is a yellow light to me. His talent and potential are intriguing but his career arc thus far would lead me to be very cautious about tendering him a max offer. I hope the Lakers do their homework. I also hope they take a look at Timofey Mosgov. The team needs a good center in the worst way.
Fern says
After tomorrow we will have a clearer path one way or the other. People talk about Leonard and Barnes but like it’s been mentioned it’s really hard to pry a restricted free agent out of a team grasp. Everybody here should agree that the chance of Clarkson leaving is very slim because of his restricted free agent status unless some other team goes crazy and offer him 15 mill a year or something like that, in that case? seeya!!. So why the other teams should be different?Like they are going to roll over if we make an offer for their restrcted FAs. Laker’s entitlement at his best. Both Leonard and Barnes are good players but are they worth the money that would be required to take to pry them out of GS and Portland’s hands? Hell no. About, Derozan and Durant. In my opinion we should kiss those two goodbye both teams are in the Conference Finals. I would be really surprised if they leave their teams.Unless there was some monumental first round collapse i believed they stay put. And im soured even more on Derozan, doesn’t look like the Kobe replacement people make him out to be. Not that i thought he was to begin with. I think some people here know my stance about Whiteside. And Batum, Bazemore, Parson and a lot of SFs are going to be out there.After tomorrow we will have a clearer idea where we can go…
bluehill says
I don’t know exactly how the cap math works for RFAs, but maybe some of these teams may not want to match because of the cap implications. With GSW, it looks like Curry’s contract is up next year as is Ezeli’s, Bogut’s and Livingston’s contracts. So assuming Curry gets the max of $20 mil? $25 mil? they would have around $45 -$50 mm committed to Curry, Klay and Green. Again, I’m no cap expert, so it may not be a real factor.
Shaun says
other teams cant offer clarkson 15M per year because of the arenas rule – his status as an arenas type player makes it even less likely he leaves
I say the FA play will be both Barnes and Ezeli – know the warrior system – barnes will get max, ezeli 8 figures, but I hope we backfill the team with a number of non-star great vets … lots of available guys this year
and if we play in the GS type system – lou williams needs to be traded – a black hole wont work in the system
Other names to watch
Joachim Noah – good defenisve C that can pass – kind of a bogut type player
David Lee – played in GS system and saved their asses last summer
Mareese speights
Evan fournier
courtney lee
aaron affalo
terrence jones
eric gordon
Anonymous says
Mosgov = Hibbert. Been there, done that. Pass.
Kevin says
Leonard averaged 8 pts and 5 rebs in 22 minutes per game. The intriguing thing about him is that he’s a true 7 footer who shoots a career.385 from three point range. He shot .377 last season taking about 4 threes a game. Russell and Clarkson were in the .350 range. On a team that lacks shooting and with a coach that likely wants to take better advantage of the three point shot Leonard fits the bill.
Now you correctly identify the problem with RFAs. Do you overpay in an effort to scare off the current team. All I know is that center and shooting forward are positions of need. Mitch indicated a desire to get players that fit the coach’s style. Shooting, passing ability to play multiple positions. Barnes can be a SF or a small ball PF. Leonard can play center and a stretch four. They seem like good fits to me.
matt says
Seems like mitch understands the draft is the way to rebuild. Too bad draft pick is cross your fingers this year.
3 teams left in the playoffs all built through the draft.
Warriors drafted, curry, thompson, green…..
Thunder drafted, westbrook, durant, ibaka…
Raptors drafted, lowry, derozan, valanciunas…
Even the Cavs are pretty much draft built, irving, wiggins for love,
Kevin says
Shaun: From your list I like:
Noah — If no to Whiteside and Leonard then as long as he’s healthy Noah is a nice piece.
Fournier: I like him as a SG which is where Clarkson is. He’s a little light for a SF.
Jones: he would likely start at forward with Randle — not a knock down three type of player though.
Anonymous says
Fournier would be an absolute home run signing for OKC.
matt says
Another interesting thing about the playoff teams left, none of them have a star at the center position, even the raptors who probably have the best center out of the 4 got by the heat with their center being hurt, okc has good centers but its like they are role players, same with the warriors, bogut, ezeli, and spieghts are like role players. Just an interesting fact for the lakers to ponder, we have no center, and tons of cap space, so do we over spend on a position that has become a role player type position.
IMO best thing would be sign 2 quality centers that are comfortable sharing time, and neither guy is a max guy.
Anonymous says
Add on to Matt: The Warriors rotate Bogut, Green, Ezeli and Spreights at center — with all of them seeing minutes.
Darius Soriano says
I’m guessing Myers Leonard can improve in these other facets, but when you watch him play you can see all the holes in his game. He hasn’t shown the ability to attack hard closeouts off the dribble. His in-between game is similarly lacking. He doesn’t rebound particularly well. He is athletic and can finish above the rim, but mostly on straight line stuff or when uncontested. I know the 3-point shooting development catches the eye, but it’s all the other parts of his game which need a fair amount of work.
matt says
So actually sign 3 quality centers at bargin that are willing to share minutes, unless they can draft a second rounder.
Off my head
Mahinmi, biyombo, and nene
A Horse with no name says
No, Clarkson isn’t going anywhere. We can thank the Arenas provision for that. I believe that GS is much more likely to max Ezeli than Barnes, as he is the more valuable and less easily replaced player fo them (Bogut has fallen off badly).
Best available FA for the lakers: Batum (worth the price), Ian Mahimi, Evan Fournier (restricted, but Magic might not match a higher offer as they have Hezonia, who should be much appreciated mproved his second year), Speights for the right price, Mozgov on the cheap, (please, he isn’t Hibbert), Courtney Lee, two way guard who hits the 3, Marvin Barnes, not even old and can really space the floor. Over pay for Alan Crabbe to try to pry from the Blazers?–He is really improving.
Fern says
Darius not to mention his defense is meh. Yeah a big that can’t guard and can’t rebound oh but he can shoot the three. Yeah thats a great fit. If we can’t get Whiteside i go for Ezely, Bismark or even Noah. We need a rim protector that can protect against the PnR not a soft 3 point chucker big.
david h says
darius: based on his admitted self assessment, I could see where mitch kupchak’s presense at tomorrow’s lottery draw is not a good sign for laker hopeful in securing a top three draft pick. like last year’s fortunate draw, it should have been jim buss and not byron scott. again, this is jim buss’s opportunity to turn his fortune around; or not. we shall see.
personal choice: send the laker girls. I was gonna watch anyway.
Go lakers
Kevin says
Darius – so you would pass on Leonard? Or, do you see enough from him that given his age 23/24 that he would be a good investment considering how young we are.
Fern says
Horse for what Luke and the Lakers want to implement, Mozgov is another slow as molasses plodding big. We need faster and more athletic players at the 5. Centers like Mozgov are becoming a diying breed there is a reason he lost his starting job in the Cavs.
BigCitySid says
-RFA status or not, why would GS give Barnes a max contract when he their 5th, probably 6th most important player at best (behind Curry, Klay, Green, Iggy, & maybe Bogut). That’s not how a champion builds and keeps a team.
– Hoping the Lakers don’t offer him a max contract either.
Shaun says
Ezeli will be the main target at C and then Noah if he would decide to come here because of their help defense, willingness to be screeners, and moreso for noah their passing which bogut does great at
whiteside not so much a passer, his screens are meh
I agree that these are all role player type guys but that is kind of what we need if DAR will play the curry role, randle = d.green, and really no one that can replicate thompson as a 2 way player – but if we sign barnes and ezelii then have 4/5 positions being similar to GS model it could be good
I think Terrance Jones would be a great get on a cheaper deal as a backup 4 playing in the role that patrick patterson plays for Toronto – could guard the 3/4, shoots 3s and is an active defender .. .had a bad season last year with nerve damage which could be a concern but there is upside there but maybe this role goes to Nance
Affalo could maybe be the best fascimile to thompson if we signed him as he was a great 2 way guard just a year or two ago and is a solid 3pt shooter – not thompson level but could be great
and i’ll say again – getting rid of williams should also be a priority – he will be a risk with the 2nd unit in disrupting the offense and is a liability on defense every game + hes small
my thinking is that we will also start looking to get taller at all the positions like GS
6’5 Guard in DAR
6’5 aaron affalo
6’8 harrison barnes
6’9 randle
6’11 ezeli
Bench
Clarkson
Williams
Nance Jr
ingram??
looking at things that way we might only have 3-4 signings to make – maybe bring back Jordan Hill or sign mareese speights at the backup C
no real superstar player but hopefully a good selection of higher level talent that could perform like the Raptors or warriors lite
Shaun says
GS will not give Barnes a max unless its in a S&T for Durant – they would have 4 max contracts in barnes, curry, thompson, and green plus key FAs like iggy, bogut, ezeli, speights, and livingston that they need to either resign or rebuild
would eat any possible money at getting better in the long run with other guys plus the way he is used there is replaceable
matt says
Outside of lebron, durant, drummond, and maybe derozan, i would hesitate giving the max
matt says
From mitch’s comments it looks like they are willing to be patient and allow the players they have to get better, doesn’t seem like he’s too confident that they can get a star free agent.
“People are gonna watch us and say this is an up and coming team” this is pretty much what he said
Kevin says
I’m a UCLA fan but Afflalo has peaked and isn’t that productive anymore. He’ll be 31 and made his game on being a great defender. He’s not that laterally quick anymore.
All the good gets are restricted free agents. For the back court I like Fournier and Crabbe. I like Barnes at a reasonable deal at the three and unless Mitch says no I like Leonard at center.
You know that Ezeli has played three years and missed 36 games each of the last two seasons due to injury. He may look good on paper but he’s got to be on the floor.
Chibi says
Haven’t seen one media report about overseas free agents. Don’t tell me their agents are going to miss an opportunity to make more money in NBA or bargain for more money in Europe.
A Horse With No Name says
Horse for what Luke and the Lakers want to implement, Mozgov is another slow as molasses plodding big. We need faster and more athletic players at the 5. Centers like Mozgov are becoming a dying breed there is a reason he lost his starting job in the Cavs.
I agree on the need for quicker centers. But Mozgov is a rim protector and unlike Hibbert, can defend the pick and roll. Further, he’s light years better than anyone we have now, and perhaps can be signed to a very reasonable deal. He could still give useful, limited minutes, and that’s what you want from a traditional big these days.
matt says
I guess i just recognized the dragen bender at #3 potential, his agility at 7 ft is spectacular he can guard multiple positions and switch on the pick and roll with ease, a 7 ft man that can run transition offense and pass accurately into the post or shoot from outside, looks like a great prospect….he would be an interesting addition, i might change my mind again though
Anonymous says
Russell finishes 9th in rook of year voting – that means 8 guys finished ahead of the 2nd pick
LT Mitchell says
Please say no to maxing Barnes.
Here’s a look at the SF’s on the Blazers with their respective salaries:
– Aminu – $8.0M
– Hernderson – $6.0M
– Crabbe – $0.9M
– Harkless – $2.9M
The players above are all young and are solid role players. Barnes is (probably) the best of the bunch, but I think they are all more or less in the same class. The main difference is Barnes turned down $16M per year for 4 years, and will likely want more. He will want as much as all four Portland SF’s combined.
The league is headed into a transition period where salaries are going to explode and there will be plenty of confusion and panic from front offices. Teams are going to offer max contracts to mediocre players across the league, and it’s important that the Lakers do not get caught up in the shopping frenzy.
I would rather go after someone like Harkless (who is a restricted free agent). He has a similar skillset as Barnes but will come at about half the cost (if that).
Clay Bertrand says
As Darius, rr, and others have mentioned, beware the SALARY FLOOR. Yes the cap is exploding with TV money over the next two years particularly. Along with the CAP rising, the FLOOR is also rising meaning that the amount of money teams are minimally required to spend is going up substantially.
If a team’s entire TEAM SALARY is below the Salary Floor, to meet it, the team is required to divide the difference between the Floor and the actual team salaries and equally distribute shares of this difference (money) to each player. In other words, the signed roster of players would realize a salary bump so that the team can meet the Salary Floor.
Let’s say a team is $10 million BELOW the Salary Floor. In such a case, the team could either sign another player for that amount to meet the floor, or be forced to pay that amount divvied up to the currently signed roster. In other words, IT COSTS NOTHING to sign a FA in this scenario because the Salary Floor costs are an absolute under the CBA and MUST be paid one way or another.
The potential domino effect on the FA market of teams racing to meet the rising Salary Floor could be a fascinating ripple in this year’s FA frenzy especially with the relative dearth of available FA talent (compared to say, next year’s FA class). We could well see a run of out of whack high dollar-short term deals and role players being outlandishly compensated relative to pre cap boom standards just so that teams can meet the Salary Floor and gain an extra asset in the process. Deals like Jordan Hill signed a couple of years back with the Lakers for short time and above market money could be very prevalent and the guys getting those deals will likely raise a few eyebrows.
As it relates to the LAKERS off season spending particularly, I have to assume that they will maintain financial flexibility (i.e. a Max Slot one way or another) for the Summer of 2017 when a much more worthy class of MAX money players are FAs. Just because they will be flush with cap room doesn’t mean they have to spend it all this summer. We can’t be stoppin at McDonalds just because we’re starving when we can clearly see there’s an IN N OUT on the next block!!!!!
Clay Bertrand says
Darius or Anyone else, please correct me if I’m wrong:
As I understand it, the absolute lowest that the Laker pick can be in the draft would be 6th. Of course, anything from 4 down goes to Philly but 6th would be the lowest the transferred pick would go.
The reasoning I am relying on is that the Lottery drawing is only done to establish the first 3 picks. After the first 3 are set, the remaining picks go by order of the worst record to the better. Philly, the Lakers, and Boston (Via Jersey) have the statistical odds in their favor. However, in the unlikely event that ALL THREE were nonetheless bumped out of the top 3 spots by teams with better records and lower lottery odds, then they would be slotted Philly, Lakers, Boston at the 4-5-6 slots by means of their respective records from worst to uhhh LEAST worst.
I’m just saying that from a value proposition, if we are to lose the pick which is likely, I hope we lose the 6th. Not very shiny silver lining but hey, spilled milk mixed with sour grapes………
ALSO, as a Viewing Note (assuming this analysis about the pick is sound), those watching the draw can start sweating after the 7th picking team is revealed.
rr says
We can’t be stoppin at McDonalds just because we’re starving when we can clearly see there’s an IN N OUT on the next block!!!!!
—
Nicely done.
Kevin says
Russell finishes 9th in rook of year voting – that means 8 guys finished ahead of the 2nd pick
__
Russell should be mad at the way he played last season. I know last year was a nightmare with all the different story lines going on around the team, but let’s be honest, if he’s the youngster with the biggest upside he better work hard on his game this summer. The rest of the NBA doesn’t see him being as good as we need him to be.
A Horse With No Name says
LT Mitchell @ 2:10: Nice post. But Barnes isn’t the best guy on your list–that would be Aminu, who took a big leap forward (pun intended). Harkless is probably the most “gettable” of the Blazer’s 3s. Probably wouldn’t have to pay too much either; as their priority will be to resign Crabbe. I like Harkless’ size, defense, improving shot and competitive fire.
Robert says
Russell: ROY voting is certainly not definitive, however please remember the 9th place finish in the future before stating that the Lakers nailed the picks. He was the 2nd pick overall. 9th place is not good. And no – Byron is not an excuse. Not for 9th.
Lottery: We need this one.
Kbj says
I just checked Tankathon’s lottery simulator and 5 times out of 10 Lakers lost the pick to Sixers. Do not be too optimistic. We have a good chance of losing the pick. Lets just hope for the best.
Darius Soriano says
ROY voting is certainly not definitive,
—
Should have just stopped there…
Mid-Wilshire says
Tomorrow is a big day.
It’s hurry up and wait.
Robert says
Darius Fair enough. However at this point – we did not nail the pick. We simply made the pick and we are waiting to see how it turns out. I have read “nailed the pick” a number of times in posts on this board.
Lottery: Whether we keep the pick or not is simple odds – nothing more – nothing less. Losing the pick will not make the FO idiots and keeping it will not mean that had some sinister plan of genius. They are what they are and ping pong balls do not change that.
Kevin says
Harkness was a starter in Orlando before his production dropped and they let him go. He made a nice turnaround in Port. But lets be honest he’s a back of the rotation guy not a real difference maker.
__
Darius: are you saying that the biases reflected in the ROY voting are so significant that we can ‘throw away’ the fact that Russell finished 9th?
I think it points to the reality that we don’t know how good he is. Part of that is because Russell is only 20 — with huge room for upside. But the other side of the coin is that there may be legitimate concern that he may have a ceiling lower than we had all hoped.
minorthreatt says
I just tried Tankathon 20 times. Lakers ended up with the pick 13 times (slightly higher than their official odds), and five times they wound up at #1 (almost exactly the official odds).
Which means…not a lot. Except for finger-crossing, etc.
BigCitySid says
– Lol, very interesting statements/thoughts why DAR finished 9th in ROY voting. Keep pondering gents
rr says
From Bask Ref, here is a list of guys how have 7, 8 or 9 in ROTY voting lately. Often the list does not go to 9 and there are lot of ties down-ballot:
2015 Jordan Clarkson
2014 Steven Adams Giannis Antetokounmpo Nick Calathes
2013 Jonas Valanciunas
2012 Chandler Parsons
2011 Only listed to 6th—Greg Monroe. Landry Fields was 4th.
2010 Jonny Flynn and Taj Gibson were a T5. James Harden was not listed and did not make the Top 5.
2009 Rudy Fernandez Robin Lopez
2008 Mike Conley Carl Landry
2007 Tyrus Thomas
2006 Ryan Gomes
2005 Luol Deng JR Smith T5
Other notables: John Wall was 2nd; Steph Curry was 2nd behind Tyreke Evans. Ricky Rubio was 2nd behind Kyrie Irving and ahead of Kenneth Faried and Kawhi Leonard. Derrick Rose won; Russell Westbrook was 4th behind Rose, OJ Mayo, and Brook Lopez.
There are obviously many variables that affect this, and this was a good rookie group. I like Russell’s game, as I have said many times. But I think it is safe to say that a guy finishing 9th in the ROTY voting is probably not a great sign for his career, so like a lot of arguments around the Lakers right now, part of the Russell argument goes back to the argument that the presence of Byron and Kobe was so inhibiting and detrimental that the young guys are simply going to blow up under Walton. I hope it happens. We will see.
With Towns winning ROTY unanimously, I think one way to look at the Lakers is that if things go right, next year they will be Minnesota: they will win around 27-30 games, will have a ROTY winner that looks like a franchise anchor, they will have a coach that is considered top-notch, and they will have some other young pieces around the ROTY guy. Then we can start talking about the brand and the market again.
bluehill says
On DLo, I think the sentiment was that he was a high risk, high reward pick. Still to early IMO to say he’s a bust, but of course I was hoping for a more impressive, less controversial start. That said, Okafor placed ahead of DLo. Would we be better off with him, especially with Luke in as coach. As for Porzingis, I can only think of one former poster that had him over DLo. KAT seemed like a consensus #1 pick.
Looking at this draft, are either Ingram or Simmons viewed as having the potential to contribute as significantly as KAT? From what I’ve read, “experts” view this draft as relatively weak after Ingram and Simmons, so these guys stand out in comparison to this year’s class, but I wonder how good these guys are compared to previous #1 draft picks.
2015 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Karl-Anthony Towns University of Kentucky
2014 NBA Cleveland Cavaliers Andrew Wiggins University of Kansas
2013 NBA Cleveland Cavaliers Anthony Bennett University of Nevada, Las Vegas
2012 NBA New Orleans Hornets Anthony Davis University of Kentucky
2011 NBA Cleveland Cavaliers Kyrie Irving Duke University
2010 NBA Washington Wizards John Wall University of Kentucky
2009 NBA Los Angeles Clippers Blake Griffin University of Oklahoma
2008 NBA Chicago Bulls Derrick Rose University of Memphis
2007 NBA Portland Trail Blazers Greg Oden Ohio State University
2006 NBA Toronto Raptors Andrea Bargnani
2005 NBA Milwaukee Bucks Andrew Bogut University of Utah
2004 NBA Orlando Magic Dwight Howard
KO says
Wonder if Russell issue with Young had a bearing on lower then numbers indicated.
People making much to much on pick. I don’t see any All-Stars in this years draft.
Team needs 2 good free agents and to dump half of last years team.
Luck is for the millions spending their welfare money on the lottery.
Fern says
ROY means nothing in the big scheme of things. DAR finish 9th SO FREAKING WHAT? is he a bust now? I bet the reason he wasn’t higher in the voting is that mess with Nick Young. Justice Winslow with his 6 ppg and Muidiay with his beyond horrible fg% and his hundreds of turnovers got more votes that DAR? Get real. There was a bias involved. He wasn’t the best rookie but he showed more than enough flashes of what he can be and he turned out to be one of the top rookies. He didn’t finish higher because of his blunder. Same thing when Kobe got at least 2 MVPs denied because of that Denver mess. I In the end it means nothing. KAT was the best rookie by far…
Shaun says
barnes is like a top 6-7 sf in the league – lebron,durant, carmelo,leonard,paul george barnes or hayward … rest of sfs are weak or one dimensional
barnes can shoot the 3, drive, defend – if he was on a different team maybe hed get a chance to grow like leonard has so also possible upside – worth the max in these days but im thinking under 20m max – not sure what the contract he could get is but i know hes not in the 30m max club
next best would be batum but hes on the wrong timeframe, is injury prone and disappears
if we get ingram maybe we dont go after him but really hes the only one on the right timeline for us to go after – other fas are older guys he could grow with the core
Fern says
Drafting DAR and getting 13-3-3 on his rookie year is nailing the pick. Drafting Anthony Bennett, Darko or Kwame is not nailing the pick. There is a big difference. So far the returns are encouraging. People talk like they expecting 25 points out of him. SMH…
rr says
People talk like they expecting 25 points out of him
—
No one is either saying or suggesting that or anything close to it. Russell had a pretty good rookie year playing as a 19-year-old on a terrible team. The main things he needs to do to improve are get to the line more (which was one of the questions about him before he was drafted) and get his AST rate up, which he probably will be able to do with playing with different personnel. He hit .351 from 3 which was good for a guy at his age, but he needs to get that up a little as well. But we don’t yet know whether he will be a difference-maker, and I think you do expect to get one at #2. I personally like his chances, but having some doubts about him is not unreasonable.
As to Mudiay, the issue with him before the draft (as many of us including me said then) was whether he could shoot well enough to be a difference-maker. Early returns were not promising.
Chearn says
Please, no defense playing Speights! The Lakers need to add at minimum 2-3 defensive stalwarts. Currently every player on the roster plays one side of the floor. The Lakers need to either find or develop a few dirty work players. The Warriors have few players in that mode. Curry and Mo are the most likely candidates in that realm. If the Lakers don’t develop defensively the new offense will be more D’Antoniesque than GSW.
Vasheed says
I was watching a little bit of one of the combine scrimage games the other day and this guy Jarrod Uthoff really stood out in my eyes. He is expected to go somewhere between late 1st round and late 2nd round. He is another PF but I like his talent for a 2nd round pick. He is a sharp shooter with a smallish wingspan but great defensive instincts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0E2i_2b13k
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigten/2016/01/25/jared-uthoff-iowa-forward-national-player-of-the-year/79305942/
bluehill says
Fun game. Westbrook continues to demonstrate the maturity he found during the Spurs series. After Durant missed all those shots in the fourth, I was surprised Westbrook passed it to him again for the shot Durant made. I thought Westbrook would have started taking some of his own shots by then.
I think the Warriors are going to be looking for a mobile big this offseason and wouldn’t be surprised if they overpaid to get somebody as well as re-signing Ezeli. That could make it tougher to sign Barnes.
Fern says
@rr im with you on your comment and there are doubts like with every rookie but people are making too much on Russell ROY finish like he is a bust because he finished 9th. I think it was bs and it was biased. He should had ended 4 or 5 in the voting but since he broke the bro/locker room code he got punished. His place on the ROY voting has nothing to do with his performance on the court But in the end it means nothing. His early returns are promising…
matt says
The fact that we had the worst starting center in the league, ball stopping kobe, russell starting with two guys randle and clarkson who were pretty much rookies, don’t forget the coach was trippin all year. Says alot “you ain’t seen nothing yet”
grumpy says
It’s definitely premature to determine if Russell is a bust or not. There’s definitely more pressure on the higher picks, but I believe he’s on the right track. Let’s not forget that he had the season high in scoring out of all rookies.
Also, like others pointed out, his standing likely dropped as a result of the Nick Young fiasco, taking a back seat in Kobe’s last year, and having to deal with Byron comments. It’s also very easy to get wrapped up with the narrative that the entire Lakers organization is a joke and can’t do anything right.
Obviously though, he has got to improve and can’t be satisfied with his first season results. I would like to really see him work on his 3 point shooting and getting his body in better shape. Overall though, you have to expect rookies to be rough around the edges and we can only hope that his work ethic will allow him to reach his potential.
LKK says
The Lakers lost one of their family yesterday when Jim McMillian passed away due to heart failure. Jimmy Mac replaced Elgin Baylor after the great Baylor retired 9 games into the 1971-72 season. The team immediately took off on their legendary 33 game win streak and posted a franchise best 69 win season that year leading to its first championship in Los Angeles. Although only a Laker for a few years, Jim played a large role on one of the greatest teams in NBA history. RIP, sir.
Barath Sundar says
DAR came 9th.
However this means only that one person thought he was among the top 3 this year.
An inconsistent and not very strong performance on one of the worst teams around; it’d be hard to pick him top 3 irrespective of his growth, capabilities or handicaps (Kobe/scott, lack of roll threat)
Picking him for the US select team is more meaningful than that 9th place finish. It would also be interesting to see where he goes on all rookie team and next year’s sophomore team ..
Warren Wee Lim says
People say NO to maxing Barnes or Derozan or Whiteside… as if it was your money or it would take less to sign them. The only team that can re-sign Barnes to a cheaper contract yearly are the Warriors… to “keep” the championship team. Derozan and Whiteside are going for the highest offer and it would require for TOR to offer the full 5-yr max to stop Derozan from signing w/ LA.
If you are a team like the Lakers, devoid of talent, and having 60M or so in space, you sign Derozan if he comes. Spare me the “he can’t shoot, he won’t pass” nonesense because he is a leader (co-leader) on a Raptors team in ECF, fetches 8.4 attempts from the stripe and has 85% efficiency. He is better than nothing, quite possibly the 2nd-best Free Agent available next to Durant (Lebron not counted).
Harrison Barnes, would require the max as well. So if he comes along with Derozan, we would have secured our 1-2-3.
Just some corrections:
JOAKIM Noah, Not Joachim.
Marvin WILLIAMS, not Marvin Barnes.
Lakers pick lowest it can be is 5th, which means we would convey the pick to Philly.
Lottery odds:
Pick 1: 19.9%
Pick 2: 18.8%
Pick 3: 17.1%
Pick 4: 31.9%
Pick 5: 12.3%
Be prepared to lose the pick instead of assuming you’re getting Ingram or Simmons. If we end up with a top-3 pick, then hey!
Vasheed says
@Clay, The furthest the Lakers could drop is 5th. They had the 2nd worst record and if 3 teams upset the odds you would get 3 +2 or 5th.
matt says
Was it just me or was golden state bricking on purpose
A Horse With No Name says
“If you are a team like the Lakers, devoid of talent, and having 60M or so in space, you sign Derozan if he comes. Spare me the “he can’t shoot, he won’t pass” nonesense because he is a leader (co-leader) on a Raptors team in ECF, fetches 8.4 attempts from the stripe and has 85% efficiency. He is better than nothing, quite possibly the 2nd-best Free Agent available next to Durant (Lebron not counted).”
Warren: Again, Derozan is a mediocre three point shooter (.283 career). He is a poor passer, and is one of the main reasons the Raptors are a low assist team. His talents, (ability to get to the line and decent 2 pt shooting) aren’t the stuff of max players. The argument you make that he should be signed because the lakers are a team devoid of talent is both overvalues his talents (they can get similar production from Clarkson with much better passing and ball skills), and is an example of short-term thinking that can doom a rebuild by eating up the cap space for elite FA–of which there are many more next year. So, signing him very well might be worse than nothing. You also laud Derozan for being a team leader on an ECF team–which is damning with faint praise: the Raptors wouldn’t get out of the second round in the Western conference.
Finally, he’s a square peg for a round hole–an exceedingly poor fit for Luke’s offense–and where the other top offenses in basketball are all going (Spurs, Cavaliers, etc.)
If the lakers tender a max offer to Derozan, I will throw in my lot with Robert/rr etc. and call for the ouster of Mitch and Jim! (That’s how confident I am in this not happening!)