In this episode of the Laker Film Room podcast, Pete and I recap the Lakers summer league, specifically looking at Lonzo Ball’s play, the revelation that was Kyle Kuzma, and then forecast out what, if anything, can be taken from Vegas and transplanted into the regular season.
We also get into the construction of the roster, discuss potential veteran point guard options, and take an early look at projecting style of play with the group that currently exists.
Click through to give the entire episode a listen.
https://soundcloud.com/user-456873398/ep-32-evaluating-the-lakers-roster-post-summer-league
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FredP says
I finally figured out who Lonzo reminds me of. At first I was thinking Dr. J without the dunks because of his ability to float and move the ball around under the basket. Then it occurred to me that he looks like a taller Pistol Pete Maravich. Maravich was not known for his dunking and was a wizard with the basketball with his creativity around the basket and ability to find open teammates who often did not know they were open. He always played with a purpose to either make openings for himself or his teammates. It is good to be a Lakers fan.
Mid-Wilshire says
Fred P,
Good comparison. I definitely see some Pistol Pete in Lonzo Ball. Also, Steve Nash was very adept at advancing the ball into the front court via the pass and kick-starting the offense quickly. If Lonzo derives anything from those two players, the Lakers could be in good shape.
Robert says
I think we have “Turned the Corner”
drrayeye says
I share the enthusiasm for Lonzo and KK, but not the vision for next year’s team that you express–at least, not yet.
Between now and October, there could be some significant changes in the Laker roster beyond the addition of a veteran “point guard.” Between October and April, further changes are likely. Meanwhile, we need to find out how much Laker defense improves, and how well the Lonzo Lakers can run a decent half court game.
Rick in Seattle says
Ray, I too, believe that further changes are likely between now and the February trading deadline. It would be very surprising if the team we see right now is the same team we see after the All-Star game! Allow me to explain why I feel that way:
“IF” Magic & Pelinka are true to their word to focus on making major moves in 2018 Free Agency then they will presumably want to have as much cap space as possible to make deals.
For the 2017-18 season, the expiring contracts of Lopez, KCP & Brewer add up to approx $48 mil. (excluding cap-holds) That is the approx amount needed for “TWO” maximum contracts.
Also, for the 2017-18 season, the salaries of Clarkson & Deng add an additional $28.8 mil to the current roster. The importance of this point is that IF the Deng & Clarkson contracts were moved, IT WOULD PROVIDE THE CAP SPACE FOR ONE ADDITIONAL MAX PLAYER.
That may not seem to be important right now, but that may be a huge factor next summer.
Some will correctly point out the difficulty of trading the Deng contract. However, Clarkson is a younger & cheaper player and should be easier to trade. As a reminder, this current Lakers roster is full of attractive young players–and their summer league championship has only helped their values. If you put yourself in Magic’s position, and the opportunity became available to move the Deng/Clarkson contracts by adding some sweetners, would you not make the move?
While its possible that the trading of Deng may be easier next summer, its difficult to predict what opportunities will or will not be available a year from now. Therefore, the sooner a trade can be made, the more certainty it provides for having the additional cap space for 2018 free agency–ANd 2018 is likely to be a very major event–particularly for the Lakers. .
Instead of trading Deng, the front office may take the easier route and simply try to trade Clarkson–a contract that stands out as a very probable trade piece.
In fact, I would be surprised if their upcoming search for a veteran backup PG didn’t include the idea of locating an expiring PG contract, and dangling Clarkson’s contract to make the deal.
Substituting Clarkson’s multi-year contract for a veteran PG on an expiring contract would take care of two issues. The only two expiring PG contracts in the Eastern Conference thatI am aware of are Marco Belinelli in Atlanta ($6.6 mil) and Michael Carter-Williams in Charlotte ($5.95 mil) Neither strikes me as being the right fit. so I will do some research to see what else might be available.
If the Lakers were able to trade out the Clarkson contract for a veteran PG on a 1-year expiring contract, I would call that anothRer win-win.
Rick in Seattle says
Here are a few other players (Western Conference) that appear to be expiring and could possibly fit that veteran point guard role for the Lakers:
Jameer Nelson (Den), Patrick Beverlly (Hou), Ray Felton (Lac), Tyreke Evans (Mem), Norris Cole (Okc), Dante Exum (Uta).
drrayeye says
There’s veteran PG Jameer Nelson of the Nuggets expiring contract of $4,736,050 . . .
Not a bad backup PG
Rick in Seattle says
Why not try another trade with Brooklyn?
Clarkson ($11.6) for Jeremy Lin ($12 mil). Salaries work. Lin is a veteran (& previous Lakers player). He has one year remaining, plus a PO year. With probably a 50% chance he opts out of the PO, and he might be a worthy veteran backup PG for the Lakers,
With Russell now on the Nets roster, Lin becomes somewhat redundant. In any case, Lin is a better backup PG prospect than Clarkson has shown to be. Best case with Lin, you have an expiring contract. Worse case, you have a 2-yr contract instead of a 3-yr commitment to Clarkson. And next summer, Lin’s final season (if he opts in) would be easier to trade than Clarkson.remaining 2 yrs would Lin is still young and has some talent. So, this is the kind of trade that might be worth the looking at…
dxmanners says
I’m losing sleep trying to figure out what to do with Matt Thomas. Showed in multiple summer league games he is a terrific spot up shooter.
FredP says
For those who never saw him live (or need a refresher), here are a few things Pistol Pete could do:
Pistol Pete Maravich
I see pairs of floppy BBB™ socks coming out soon.
Thanks for another enjoyable podcast.
KevTheBold says
Interesting podcast as usual Darius.
I must admit that when it comes to playing time, I agree with Pete, seniority should fall behind actual production and fit.
Do agree with both of you however, about Ingram’s profile thus far with regards to his fit with the new playing style as he, like Randle and Clarkson like to hold onto the ball for periods which may disrupt the flow of Zo the offense.
As for Kuzma, I believe he will soon become our starting power forward, as his skill set has many more tools, are much more refined, and fit with Zo better, than both Randle and Nance combined.
Though if that occurs, I wonder about the assertion that both Randle and Nance will suffice as back up centers. Maybe Nance with his leaping ability, but Randle, with his lack of finesse, will rack up too many fouls.
Not to mention, obviously, that Randle’s upcoming pay raise will affect our ability to pay two top tier free agents; so I expect this upcoming season, to be his last, if, he makes it past the trade deadline.
Anonymous says
If the Lakers want to keep him, Randle’s pay day can be delayed until after the free agent bonanza next summer.
Rick in Seattle says
Yes, but….
Randle becomes a RFA next summer. If another team makes him an offer EARLY in free agency, the Lakers would more than likely NOT be in a position to match, until they knew the disposition of the bigger players they will be going after.
Therefore, it would raise a decent possibility that the Lakers let him go, for nothing in return. While I am not a big Randle fan, he does have value and I would hope that they
could trade him during the season—especially if it would help them get rid of the Deng contract.
KevTheBold says
Yes, I realize that. Thanks for the input however.
Old Timer says
It is maybe a coincidence that this Old Timer guessed what Magic/Rob was thinking. Silver Screen Woj reports that Magic was considering DWade to join the Lakers after Bulls buy out on 1 1/2 weeks. This could be a triumvirate plan thinking ahead of 2018. For Dwayne this is something to explore as part of post NBA career. DW has dual role mentor and the bait to attract bigger fish next season compared to Ian or Tyler who are considered young PGs like Lonzo. They are fall back for Plan B.
I’m positive Magic is also looking for Center as a back up of Lopez. Zu is a reliable shooter but just too nice of a supporting Center while Bryant needs more games to play lock down D without fouling.
TheNumberOfFlopsIsTooDamnHigh says
Kev, I agree with your praise on Kuzma, I really like his game. But he is not going to become our starting 4 this season, no way man. People get so carried away when a rookie shines in SL. Let me remind you, (it will be real obvious soon enough) that 25 to 38 year old Power Forwards with 50 lb + and almost 10 years experience on our 19 year old rook will push the kid around real good and bring him back to earth like Summerleague was a fairytale.
We had the same praise and expectations for Nance and Randle after their summer league and we also were all counting all the unhatched chickens straight into the 8th or 7th seed in the WC on D’Angelo’s back in his first year, and then again early ion in his second.
Forget about it, a 82 game seasons in the NBA is a halfcourt grind for men athletes, and the kids can only outrun proven veterans -that had seasons over seasons to learn and gel with their teammates- for so long. Motor does not trump honed skill and true experience, and most importantly, a TEAM DEFENSE that’s in sync. Which is something most summer leaguers don’t even know how to find in the dictionary.
I do believe that Kuzma posseses more talent and skillset than Randle, mind you, but Randle has 2 years of real BB under his belt, and he is a tough dude who isn’t going to let anyone take his spot without a fight. Not even Nance started over Randle for the majority, and I like his creative, versatile and team oriented hussle game much more than Randle’s freight train set.
Not saying Randle’s bad by any means, statistically he actually contributes very positively, but when comparing the two and if we had to decide between Nance and him it get’s tricky for me.
Plus, I think the FO wants to gauge Randle’s improvement, and also showcase him as much as possible to up his value for a packaged trade. We’re probably on the same page with this, I’d rather see Nance stay a Laker, and utilize Randle (plus some change) into an opportunity to offload Deng’s contract and a young asset that has fallen through the cracks of the offseason frency. I can’t believe Noel is still not signed for example.
However, I also would absolutely not put it past Julius that all his hard work during the summer pays off in a big way, and that he will show us his true value with a tremendous break out season. Then I will eat my words and leave it up to Magic and Pelinka to figure out what the hell to do to make this all work on time for the 2018 free agency.
Glue guys and locker room favorites like Nance are much more valuable than their stat and his draft position would sugest, and we wouldn’t get that value back in return, especially since he is on a costcontrolled contract for two (or at least one) more year than Randle.
If anything, I would like to see Luke experiment with a big small ball lineup, putting Kuzman at the three, and Nance at the 4. Randle doesn’t have the touch to space the floor as a Kuzman complementing 4, and he is to slow for small forwards, so I don’t think these two pair well.
Unless Randle plays at 5 and Kuzman powerforward, but for 20 million reasons called Lopez that would be moronic.
So the more you think about it, we got some options now man, that’s a great problem to have, unless u r a head coach.
Just don’t get your pants in a knot y’all over 19 year olds cracking the starter rotation on a competing team. That’s going to be a ticket straight to the Lottery. And I for one have had enough of that.
P.S. what the heck are we supposed to do now for the next 2 months, I will not make it that long!
R says
Truly; Kuzma hasn’t played a regular season NBA minute and people are ready to throw Randle under the bus and slot Kuzma into the starting five.
Hilarious!
I have an idea: why not wait and see what Kuzma really has by letting him play on the big stage for a game or two before shipping Randle off to … wherever?
Gee who knows, I hear the Lakers drafted a promising PG maybe let’s see what synergy might develop between Randle and this rookie wonderkind?
KevTheBold says
Fair enough, yet in my case, I admit, that I was never a fan of Randle.
Impressive physical capabilities in certain areas, no doubt, though his shooting, finesse, and decision making skills are still lacking.
Like Russell, who by the way did not have the luxury of observing the NBA for a whole season, before being thrown into the fire; I waited patiently two seasons, for Randle to improve.
As I had to finally give up on Russell last season, I do the same with Randle now.
Imo, he will remain the proverbial bull in the china shop, the bowling ball in the lane, who decides to shoot no matter what, then takes a straight path to the basket, no matter who is in his way.
Kuzma may not have any NBA experience, yet he does have skills which Randle never had and imo never will.
I say trade him while his value is highest.
KevTheBold says
I see your point, yet I didn’t have those projections for Randle, nor Nance in summer league. Neither one of them showed us 10% of what Kuzma has.
Power forwards may push him around, but he’s quick enough to evade, and smart enough to take advantage of Zo’s push; and I doubt many will be fast enough to beat him up the floor, or close out to him before he can get his deep 3, high jumpers off.
If they try to stay tight, he’s got the ball handling skills to make them pay.
We will see, but as far as raw skill is concerned, you have to admit, that Kuzma has got it in spades, over Randle or Nance.
As a matter of fact, I can’t recall one amazing quality that either one of them has, besides Randle being strong, and Nance having hops, when his legs are not injured.
Neither one can shoot, and without shooters, the Zo offense will suffer.
Alexander says
This year’s goals are (a) to develop the young players and team culture to be seen as a desirable destination and (b) clear cap space toward two max slots – which means at a minimum moving Clarkson and doing something with Deng/JR. There is hardly any team left (hey Bulls, trade us Wade and Nwaba for Deng and Randle?) with space/expiring to absorb Deng and compensating assets. Clarkson and Deng together is 30m, too much for any team to absorb, so together they are not a valid offering option. Clarkson has to be moved this preseason for any expiring contract, ideally a wing or guard. Given the laughable way Magic keeps not mentioning him when he names even the ballboys, I’m guessing these efforts are underway already. To move Deng, we need a partner in a situation where cap room is and will be scarce and lots of sellers of bloated contracts are competing for such little room. Paying ourselves for one year of Deng *and* showing he is still capable of playing the 4 *and* a 1st plus a player or another pick will be needed. If it means that Deng gets 12 mpg to be part of the rotation and Zu out (with Nance taking minutes at 5 and less at the 4 to accommodate Deng/Kuz), so be it. This makes sense strategically, and it may even be fine from a basketball standpoint – Deng was capable 4 in Chicago, coming back rested and with something to prove, he ought to be better than stone hands and feet Zu.
LakerPauer says
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Randle being packaged with Deng somehow, especially if Randle shows out enough to be interesting but not enough to keep. That would create minutes for Kuzma, Bryant, and Zubac while clearing cap space for max FA #2. It’s tough to say though. What if Julius just slots in perfectly next to Ball? We have a young, fit team who can run like crazy. Who’s to say that we eventually just decide one max FA is enough, and then we stretch Deng, keep Randle and perhaps give KCP a multi year deal? My gut feeling is that Lonzo is going to help some guys have breakout seasons this year, and the young legs might be more valuable than an aging star better in the half court. Paul George seems perfect, but all of this Lebron and Westbrook talk perplexes me. I think the idea is to become a dynasty again, not just win one chip with the banana boat crew. We need guys like KAT going forward (Good luck, right?). We already have a really good PG who makes excellent decisions with the ball in his hands. Do we really want to see him give it up to a 34 year old Lebron in half court sets? Do we want to see him pass it to Westbrook who will then go into iso mode? There’s a good chance that the second max free agent will be a young gun that we’re not thinking of right now, and he might come along in 2019. We have a great chance that in the next 2-3 years while the Warriors are dominant that Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma become an amazing trifecta ala Westbrook, Durant, and Harden. We have to start thinking about locking these players in over just nabbing ring chasers. It really has to be the exact guy like Paul George, who fits exactly what we’re trying to do. In other words, I want the 2000-2003 Lakers, not the 2004 Lakers.
TheNumberOfFlopsIsTooDamnHigh says
Alexander, Which max player do you think will think of a team of promising rookies that has just run and gunned itself to to a fun inducing 32 win season a desirable desination? I’d argue If you find one, than he may be not the right kinda guy to help the team win a ring, because he obviously wouldn’t care about that as much as picking up a fat check primarily.
Or maybe then the next question has to be: is there an elite free max agent available with enough fire to win and talent to help us do it, who thinks a 32 win team in 2018 will compete for at least a conference final the year after?
I am really asking out of curiosity, not to spite you.
I am also asking this in an isolated szenario kind of way,
because realistically it’d be a pretty poor strategy to make any significant and unlikely potential free agent signing contingent on ANOTHER significant and even less
likely free agent signing, happening on top of the first one and pretty much at the same time,.
Before other, more competitive teams throw the same max offers on the table.
Pauer, I completely agree with you that we do’t want to commit max contracts to star players on the trail end of their career, only to get one healthy year out of their 4/5yr max and then watch the banana boat deflate and spin down the tube.
The Nash Crash took me right out of that mood. Still I’d done the exact same thing at the time, we had Dwight, Pau, Metta, Nash and Kobe, and a realistic chance to take it to anyone not named the 2016 Warriors. No one could’ve predicted that Nashs body, who is a 100% consummate professional and absolutely commited to leaving everything out on the court, would completely disintegrate pretty much right when everyone on the team realized how good they could be together, and how much of a mental challenge Howard has to deal with in his life.
So, speaking of those 2016 Warriors, they still look pretty good (as in absolutely unbeatable) in 2017/18, and no sign or reason to believe they will fall off anytime soon before 2019. So that’s why i agree with your point: regardless of what you’d sacrifice now to get close to competing with them in the next 2 3 years, they won’t be beat, but you potentially screwyourself out of your chance to do so for the next 3 to 5 years after.
So I see your lottery jack pot list is headed by KAT, and I raise you, I see a freek who’s greek, and a lavar dizzing hothead who makes baseballs look like a squished grape in the hand of an african zulu warrior, as our best chance to build an absolute beast mother of a mainstay title contender for a 5 year span, with the ideal positional and skill level fit, and perfectly lining up with the timeline of lonzo, ingram and kuzma, and also the decline of the warriors. Which is probably just as unlikely as signing Anthony Davis and Russel Westbrook next summer, but I’d be fine with either, because I don’t want to wait until 2019 to watch the Lakers play deep into the Playoffs. What you got?
Alexander says
That’s a fair question, even if the media act like it’s already done and LBJ and PG13 and a couple of more players are coming. The Warriors have created a superteam that’s hard to beat, requiring four all stars and a quality bench. Very few teams are in position to even dream to compete as constructed. In today’s salary cap era, it took multiple miracles and luck to construct this in Oakland, and looks impossible everywhere else.
How do you build something as good or better? You either need 4 top-10 players in the league to join up (good luck!), or you need 2-3 to pair up with those that aren’t yet but on the cusp of becoming that good. One of the few possible scenarios would require a team that’s young enough to possess two nascent all stars still on their rookie contracts, a bench of quality players, either vets on min salaries or quality rookies on low 1st/2nd round salaries, no middle level contracts ($5-15M), which then allows two max all-star additions and perhaps one fringe all star level player coming in on discount ($10-15M). What used to sound unlikely as a choice may be the only elevator capable of going to a Warriors floor or higher. LAL and PHI have exactly that makeup and will both be pitching it next July. The youngin development will probably be the deciding factor – Simmons/Embiid/Fultz v Ball/Ingram/…. I’m guessing that the ROY race in 2017-18 will matter well beyond bragging rights. The best player orchestrator (Simmons or Ball) will be the better draw.
Rick in Seattle says
Not sure why Magic is wanting to sign someone so quickly. As exemplified by Kyre Irving, there will be on-going roster “adjustments”, trades, and player movement, etc., within most rosters all summer long. Magic should play his cards closer to the vest and hang onto his remaining cap money for right now. Getting KCP showed that patience wins out. Come on Magic, wait for a better opportunity. Neither Rose nor Clark are the perfect fit. Other options will become available. They always do. Be a little patient, Magic. There’s still 2 1/2 months before training camp.