The Draft and The Police

Kurt —  June 25, 2007

I did two things of note this weekend — went and saw The Police at Dodger Stadium, on Sunday watched NBA TV reshowing some NBA draft coverage from the 1980s. So, what follows are some draft and Lakers thoughts, with a Police theme. Because I can.

Walking on the moon. The dream part of the “classic” drafts was watching the 1982 draft, which by the way had originally been broadcast on USA Network. That was the draft the Lakers took James Worthy with the first overall pick, part of a fleecing of Cleveland that allowed the Lakers to add Worthy to Magic, Kareem and a squad that already had a ring.

Right after the pick, which was turned in by Chick Hearn, a much younger Jerry Buss (wearing a leather jacket that only could be brought out in public in the 80s without incurring massive public ridicule) spoke to an interviewer. When asked how Worthy would fit in, Buss said how much run Worthy would get as a rookie really would depend on how healthy Mitch Kupchak was. That made me laugh. Not to knock Mitch, who was a quality role player for a championship caliber team (the kind of guy I wish the current Lakers had more of on the roster) but he was never any James Worthy.

Bring On The Night. My guess, and it is just that, is that any deal the Lakers make will come after July 1 when a sign and trade can balance out the salaries one way or anther.

So, bring on Draft Night (and remember we are doing a draft comment thread here that night). I am putting a cigar and some rum in my alter to Jobu that Acie Law, Nick Young or Rodney Stuckey fall to 19. Not optimistic about any of that, but a little a cigar and rum seems a worthy sacrifice to make that happen.

I’m also falling off the Sean Williams bandwagon, the more I read the more I see this guy as talented but a head case that may not be worth the risk. Are we better off with a Rudy Fernandez? A Thaddeus Young? If you are sure you have a re-energized Kobe and Phil and some other veterans with strong personalities in the clubhouse, maybe I’m more willing to take a risk. But if the clubhouse is a potential mess come the season, do you need another headache on top of it?

Murder by numbers.
What I do if we draft Josh McRoberts.

De do do do, De da da da. Media members are still not done with the rehashed-but-easy columns on Kobe, but I think Laker fans mostly have moved beyond the simplistic “Kobe good/Kobe bad” or “Kobe goes/Kobe stays” that gets played out. Hard and fast, black and white pronouncements are the way of columnists and sports talk radio guys, but the real world exists in shades of gray.

Secret Journey. We read rumors and guesses all the time. But here’s part of the challenge of being a fan — and playing GM from our computers — this time of year: We only know a fraction of what is really going on.

Already, as the draft nears, the hard line in Indiana has apparently crumbled in the effort to move Jermaine O’Neal (they no longer demand the Odom/Bynum/19th pick stance). I know there is more taking place on the Garnett front than is public. Not that any of this means a deal is imminent.

Here’s one thing to remember — what we hear of trade negotiations is the tip of the iceberg as to what is really going on. Is Kobe calling up and working KG (or JO) to come to LA after the Kobe/Mitch summit? (I hope so, without him pitching in the Lakers couldn’t land Pargo.) What about Buss? What about a three-way deal if Minnesota wants youth and not Odom? I’d bet a lot those things are going on, and it has a big impact on what will come down (if anything), but we really are just guessing what is below the water based on what we see above it.

UPDATE: As reported in the Times this afternoon, high level talks about a Garnett trade are taking place between the Lakers, Minnesota, and potentially others. After the experience of the Kobe “media frenzy day,” I’m not going to chase and post every twist in the story in the main post. There will be updates from myself and others in the comments. However, I think it fits in with the message of this the post — the talks are happening at a lot of levels, not just ownership, and have been for at least a week, and we know little of what is actually happening. (Thanks to kwame a. for pointing out the link.)

When the world is running down, you make the best of what’s still around. This made me laugh. (Hat tip to Henry.)

Man in a suitcase.
Since this site has developed such a loyal and regular readership, let me update you on some personal stuff for a second. Nothing bad — my family and I are in the process of moving, back to the LBC. But, as you all know, moving sucks. Moving with two kids really, really sucks. So, if as happened this weekend, posts go a few days without an update I’m sorry. I’ll be on top of any news that comes down as fast as I can, but just be warned as my time is overbooked for the next couple weeks.

Kurt

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75 responses to The Draft and The Police

  1. Not to sidetrack the draft discussion, but it appears Jerry Buss has finally called Glen Taylor.

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers26jun26,1,6107504.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

    Hopefully they make something happen. Apparently the Lakers are trying to move up because what Minny really wants is multiple lotto picks and cap space. Still a long longshot

  2. I don’t think that is off-topic. It’s good news, they are trying. I think it makes some sense for Minny, although if you are rebuilding wouldn’t you want Bynum instead of a pick? But the rough outline here makes some sense for all involved. Like I said in the post, I think this is a part of what is going on, there is a lot more we don’t know but this sounds better than three days ago.

    All the KG talk begs another question — if you were the Suns would you give up Amare to get KG? That’s old for young, but with Nash older is that all bad? Does KG improve you enough to get past the Spurs? Are you willing to take the luxury tax hit (which would be substantial)?

  3. You left out “Tea in the Sahara”, which is where Mitch Kupchak will be after he screws up the Kobe situation and fails again to improve the Lakers roster so we can be a 500 team for yet another year.

    Also “Wrapped Around Your Finger” which is where Kobe has the Lakers right now, like it or not.

  4. Would it be fair to say that mitch is the canary in the coalmine of this offseason? i have to think that he’s going to drop dead, figuratively speaking, if the offseason plays out as badly as it could…

  5. If anybody knows any sort of religious dance or prayer… nows the time to start using them. The state of our franchise will be probably decided within the next week. Get KG and instantly have the “buzz” back, or don’t get KG, watch him go to Phoenix watch Kobe explode and sit out if he has to, and watch our stock plummet for years to come.

    I’m probably exaggerating a little bit but I don’t think I’m too far off.

  6. News and rumors are flooding in ….

    SportsNation John Hollinger: (2:34 PM ET ) Good news is that Garnett would likely greenlight the deal. Bad news is that Lakers have few assets. It would probably take Odom, Bynum, and a first-rounder or two just to get their foot in the door, and even that is kind of a lame offer.

    If the Minnesota Timberwolves do decide to trade Kevin Garnett, point guard Troy Hudson would like to be on the plane with KG out of the Twin Cities.

    GetGarnett.com is a website/blog dedicated to the latest Los Angeles Lakers news and rumors. If you have any Lakers related news or even your own article you’d like to submit to us, please feel free to e-mail us. Thank you!
    LessMore
    June, 2007Page 1 of 15« Older Home Loading Newer » L.A. Times: KG to L.A. in 4-way deal in talks
    Published by LD2kat June 25, 2007 in Articles. 20 Comments
    BREAKING NEWS: The Los Angeles Times just reported that the Lakers are in talks to “Get Garnett” in a possible four-team trade. Buss and Taylor spoke on the phone for 20 minutes on Friday regarding getting KG in Los Angeles. This is HUGE news for Lakers fans:

    L.A. Times: The owners of the Lakers and Minnesota Timberwolves have begun talks for a trade that would involve sending Kevin Garnett to the Lakers, league sources said Monday.

    A multi-team trade discussion is underway involving the Lakers, Indiana, Minnesota and possibly a fourth team, with the Lakers getting Garnett and the Pacers getting Lamar Odom and teenage center Andrew Bynum from the Lakers. Another minor player will likely be added to make the deal work financially.

    Jerry Buss and Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor spoke by phone for 20 minutes Friday. Buss reportedly ended the conversation by suggesting that Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak and Timberwolves vice president of basketball operations Kevin McHale would continue the discussion Monday.

    Could our passionate pursuit in “Getting Garnett” come true?

    ESPN’s Hollinger Chat: KG would greenlight deal to L.A.
    Published by LD2kat June 25, 2007 in Articles. 2 Comments
    He doesn’t quite mention where he came about this info, but John Hollinger just chimed in with this on ESPN.comlive chat:

    ESPN Live Chat: RM, LA CA: Garnett to Lakers? Is there any possibilities that can happen?

    SportsNation John Hollinger: (2:34 PM ET ) Good news is that Garnett would likely greenlight the deal. Bad news is that Lakers have few assets. It would probably take Odom, Bynum, and a first-rounder or two just to get their foot in the door, and even that is kind of a lame offer.

    Hudson would like to leave with KG out of Minny
    Published by LD2kat June 25, 2007 in Articles. 1 Comment
    Well, it seems like Troy Hudson would like out of Minny. The speculation is he would be dealt along with KG out of Minnesota.

    Fox Sports: If the Minnesota Timberwolves do decide to trade Kevin Garnett, point guard Troy Hudson would like to be on the plane with KG out of the Twin Cities.

    Hudson’s agent said Friday that he called owner Glen Taylor to say that the point guard would like to play elsewhere next season. “It’s not like I demanded a trade or anything,” Bill Neff said. “It’s just time to move on.”

    Lakers always find a way… Suns on brink?
    Published by LD2kat June 25, 2007 in Articles. 9 Comments
    Found this piece from an AZ article this morning. Suns may be on the “brink,” hmm…

    AZ Central: The Lakers always seem to find a way of landing a great big man just when the Suns are on the brink.

    The Suns are on the brink. They can’t risk Garnett falling into the clutches of their nemesis.

    Garnett to Boston quite not dead yet?
    Published by LD2kat June 24, 2007 in Articles. 11 Comments
    Some more interesting news coming from Boston. Where we heard KG and his agent speak out about a potential Boston trade, some reports from Boston say that the deal isn’t quite dead yet…

    Boston Herald: Despite reports to the contrary, sources confirmed last night there is still life to a Celtics deal for Kevin Garnett. It was also stated strongly that the club would never make such a move before it had an agreement with the Timberwolves star on a contract extension.

    It was reported in Thursday’s Herald that “the process still is far from complete” on a trade that would include Al Jefferson [stats] and the No. 5 pick going to Minnesota, and a source was quoted as saying, “There’s a good chance nothing happens.” But it’s clear the teams are still interested in pursuing the matter.

    Many want Garnett and Owner is leaving Tuesday
    owner Glen Taylor and wife Becky plan to leave Tuesday – two days before the NBA draft – for China on their honeymoon. Stops include Beijing and Shanghai.

  7. so can we just put worthy back in a jersey? that’d be awesome. the rule is that he has to wear the goggles.

    good luck on your move to long beach. long beach is home for me. near csulb.

  8. I have to avoid being drawn
    into the Police titles >> Laker topics vector
    because I have to do some work,
    although titles like One World Not Three, Peanuts,
    Can’t Stand Losing You spring to my head

    I just have to say, now that you are the fifth person
    I know of who got to go to the concert
    ( one friend went twice, d’gumn’t )
    that Trudie and Sting passed by me twice
    at the Viper Room on Friday.

    So there.

    - 5 -

  9. Could That happen at the Draft Night? We need to pray

    .. :-)

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/feature…~13~11~11~11~2

    i guess minny takes the 5th pick
    Indy gets our 19th pick
    LAL get KG & KOBe
    BOS gets JO & PIERCE

  10. “UPDATE: ESPN Insider Chad Ford says the key to such a deal might be the Celtics, who could get Jermaine O’Neal, while sending the fifth pick, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, and Sebastian Telfair to Minnesota. At first blush the Timberwolves seem to get the short end of that, but by kissing goodbye to Garnett and eventually Ratliff’s contracts, Ford points out they would gain massive cap relief next summer.”

  11. If all of Boston’s players were enough to get KG away from Minny, why on earth would they settle for JO?

  12. Also Apparently Phx is still in the running and is trying to get boston involved in a 3-way deal. Heard this on 570 just now.

  13. The LA Times keeps on changing its story on the KG trade. The most recent version (as of 3:38 pm) is that the 4-way discussions broke down, and talks are focused on MN/LA only, but McHale doesn’t like Bynum & LO for KG.

    This is going to be a long week….

  14. This whole KG to LA thing is garbage, it ain’t going to happen. Also, Ric Bucher said on ESPN a few minutes ago that Kobe’s camp said that even if KG were to come to LA he’d still want out.

    I say, tell Kobe to drop the no-trade clause completely and we’ll find a deal that works best for us and ships his tail out of LA.

    Obviously if KG to LA happens and he still wants out, he’s not about winning, he’s all about leaving LA. If that’s where his heart is, there’s 29 other teams in the league and I’m sure we could find him a home (in a cold, cold place).

  15. 15. I think if the long-shot of KG coming to the Lakers actually happened, Kobe would somehow change his tune. His people have to keep up appearances right now, but camp doesn’t even open for four months and that is a mighty long time for minds to change.

  16. 570 klac report 4 team trade unlikely

    Boston says no thanks, the lakers are trying with their crap package in a two team deal!

    KG isn’t coming to LA. Sorry

  17. Boston apparenly isn’t down with JO. Why not just kick Indiana out of the discussion, and let the Celtics have Odom and Bynum. Why do the Pacers have to be involved? Boston needs to be involved because Minnesota wants their #5 pick

  18. Kurt @15.

    Its possible, even probable. But Kobe didnt say, “I would politely like the Lakers front office to consider trading me to another team. Perhaps I don’t fit in well with the current rebuilding plan and I am finding it slightly frustrating.”

    Kobe came through and said (literally?),”F you, F you, F YOU, you’re cool, and F you. Im out!”

    I mean, dude is a two-faced misogynist with serious anger problems and possible bi-polar disorder, if he isn’t an outright sociopath, but the picture of him just kinda straightening his shirt and pretending everything is ok is still tough to imagine. But then again, maybe he is just the type of sociopath who could pull it off.

  19. Oh, and welcome back to the LBC.

  20. The NBA is a mockery these days.

  21. Good luck w/the move. Try and think of all the stuff you can’t find and discover a week or so later as X-Mas in July ;) .
    This ride gets goofier and goofier. Since an earlier link had Bynum as #3 if he was eligible this yr why not try Bynum,Farmar,the #19 and a future #1for #3,Josh Childress. Lamar and the 40 for Ratliff and the #5.
    Then you can offer Ratliff,Kwame,Radmanovic and whoever Minn wanted for 3,5 for KG,Hudson. Or,if it’s decided Kobe really wants out,send him to Chicago for Lakers choice at 9,Duhon,Sefolosha and PJ Brown on a 1 yr huge sign and trade. start the post-Kobe era w/the 3,5,9 picks.

  22. chris henderson June 25, 2007 at 8:26 pm

    why not just trade kobe for KG?
    I think i’d rather have him, less of a malcontent

  23. 23 – because it looks like we might be able to have both.

    Guys I just want to remind everybody that as exciting as this all is, let’s not get our hopes up too much. We would be devastated if this didn’t happen. As of right now, Kevin Garnett is property of the Minnesota Timberwolves. Just because we all really want this to happen doesn’t mean the Wolves will accept our offer. Lets just take this one step at a time.

    In the words of the great Winston Wolf, “Let’s not start sucking each others @#$%! just yet gentlemen, we still have work to do.”

  24. skigi, i don’t normally agree with you, but that is a great quote. and applicable here (and moreso on getgarnett).

  25. warren (philippines) June 25, 2007 at 9:34 pm

    The tides are turning. Few months back, when I first posted the 3-way, almost everyone jumped at me and scolded me for dreaming. See, pipe dreams are not that hard. Not on this site…

    I believe Kwame must be added to balance the deals out. Unless Mihm and McKie are signed and traded for 8M total and being sent as part of the package.

    I once more re-visit my KG proposals and there sits at the top, the Boston 3-way. McHale and Ainge, much more the Celtics have absolutely no reason to help us, unless it helps their situation as well.

    Theo Ratliff, #5 pick and a filler for Odom, then Bynum and the Boston package, along with the #19 will go to Minny.

    The concept remains the same – Kobe and KG will be the greatest duo in the NBA.

    I am slightly tempted to say that a 3-way attack of JO-LO-KB would be deadly, but guys, KG is da Bomb.

  26. skigi, that is a GREAT QUOTE, said at just the right time, it had me laughing out loud at midnight. really puts the whole trade discussion in perspective

  27. thanks paul :)

  28. u too geoff

  29. Are the Boston Celtics the key to moving Kevin Garnett to L.A.?

    The Los Angeles Times reported Monday that the Lakers were in discussions with the Minnesota Timberwolves about a trade that would send Garnett to the Lakers. The trade also would involve the Indiana Pacers and possibly a fourth team.

    After speaking with a league source, I think the deal has some legs, though it doesn’t appear imminent.

    According to the source, the key to completing the deal is finding a fourth team that would (a) take Jermaine O’Neal and (b) send the Timberwolves enough pieces to complete the deal.

    Despite reports to the contrary, the Celtics are balking at including the player the Timberwolves want in the deal — Al Jefferson. According to a different league source, if Minnesota insists on Jefferson, it’s a deal killer for Boston.

    However, the deal could work without Jefferson, if Minnesota lowered its sights a little.

    For instance, here’s one scenario that could work:

    The Wolves send Kevin Garnett and Marko Jaric to the Lakers.

    The Lakers send Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum to the Pacers and the No. 19 pick to the Wolves.

    The Pacers send O’Neal to the Celtics.

    The Celtics send the No. 5 pick, Theo Ratliff, Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair to Minnesota.

    Here’s what that trade looks like in the Trade Machine, keeping in mind that there also will be draft picks involved.

    The deal seems as though it probably would work for the Lakers, Pacers and Celtics.

    The Lakers would get the guy they want to pair with Kobe in KG. Surely that would end any talk of a Kobe trade this summer.

    The Pacers would get the two guys they want in exchange for O’Neal in Odom and Bynum. They’ve been waiting patiently for a straight-up swap with L.A. for weeks involving those three players (and a draft pick).

    The Celtics would get another star quality player to pair with Paul Pierce without having to give up Jefferson.

    But is it enough for Minnesota? That’s the question.

    The deal would give the Wolves more than $20 million in cap relief next summer and two additional picks in this year’s draft. It also would give them two young prospects in Green and Telfair.

    It might, however, fall a little short for Minnesota in the talent department. Perhaps the Wolves would bite if another young player or future draft pick were included.

  30. warren (philippines) June 26, 2007 at 3:16 am

    If I were Minny, the best deal out there, Value-wise, would be:

    Phoenix’s Amare + 24 + 29 + Atlanta’s 2008.

    Next would be LA’s Kwame, Bynum and Odom.

    Boston’s offer, even though it includes AL JEFF, is a distant 3rd.

    There is no way Boston’s offer is better than ours. Odom is better than any other player offered on the table, Bynum is better than any other pick offered from 5-10. Theo Ratliff is merely an expiring contract, which, Kwame is as well. Kwame is more serviceable than Theo at this point. He is therefore a wiser “1-year rent” compared to Theo.

    Should Minny choose not to take Odom, they can always package him separately. Theo + #5 might be enough knowing Boston might take him instead of playing w/ Theo and the #5. They could also add Telfair to this deal.

    While the idea is to Include Indy in the deal, it is not required. They could just take them away from the equation and get on with the variants. New York will take on JO in a heartbeat. I’m pretty sure Isiah is inkling to talk to Bird at this point, possibly offering Renaldo Balkman as a sweetener.

  31. I guess one needs to read between the lines on these negotiations.

    It appears that the two teams that are REALLY under pressure to move specific players are indiana and Minnesota. The Lakers and Celtics are under pressure to at least do SOMETHING. It may be that the Lakers are the only possibility KG will accept this year. The Lakers are also the best fit for JO–but he doesn’t seem to have as much control over his destination.

    The Lakers have a tradition and a recent team salary structure that works best with a big man superstar, so all of us in LA have been lusting for KG for some time.

    Indiana alone, even more than the Lakers, sees a way to use Odom and Bynum immediately and permanently. It might work for them better than they dream.

    Minnesota, on the other hand, seems more like a temporary stay for Bynum/Odom until the Knicks or someone else can come up with a serious offer to move them East.

    If I were McHale, I’d rather have the two blue chip tradeable Laker players than any two players the Celtics could offer in a more complex deal, but there are obviously complex dynamics he is dealing with.

    It almost seems like magnetic forces are at work!

  32. One suggestion for the blog:

    You list other blogs on the right side of the page. How about opening a new page/tab when clicking on that blog link. That way people would still have the Forum Blue & Gold up while viewing the connection. This makes it easier than constantly having to hit the ‘back’ key. Also, if we link several times, we can get back to your site with only one click/tab.

  33. I sincerely doubt this trade goes through, our package just isn’t that good (although I think Minnesota waited too long and can longer get what they thought for KG..amazing how many owners don’t want to take on a $20 million salary).

    I am still a firm believer that Kobe should be traded.

  34. Not gonna lie, I’m gettin’ a little excited. Now, I’m a perpetual cynic in everything- to quote, “An optomist sees the glass as half full. A pessimist sees the glass as half empty. A cynic says it matters not- the Milk is sour anyways.”

    Now, an advantage to being a cynic is that when something good happens, you’re all the more happy for it. This KG stuff, I’m steeling myself for the fact that it’s probably not gonna happen, but it’s nice to be a part of the ride. this thing’s got more legs then the Kidd deal.

    at the very least, it’s some very entertaining stuff.

  35. According to a league executive, Paul Pierce has finally told team management that unless the Celtics come out of this week with a talented veteran co-star for him, they should expect him to make a public declaration soon after Thursday’s draft that he wants a trade.

    “Danny is under tremendous pressure, from inside and outside, to get a deal for someone done this week,” one league executive said.

    As hard as the Celtics, Pacers, Timberwolves and Lakers worked on the collapsed deal that would’ve sent Kevin Garnett to Los Angeles, Boston and Indiana couldn’t come to terms with what they were to receive. The Pacers were uncomfortable with Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom without minimally the Lakers’ pick at 19, just as the Celtics believed they had to get more back for sending Jefferson, the emerging forward, and the fifth pick to Minnesota.

    There was some belief that Pierce was going to demand a trade upon his return from a wrist injury during the regular season, when the bottom fell out of Boston’s season with 17 straight losses. He didn’t do it.

  36. Whether or not there is a trade today, the dynamics are becoming clear. Minnesota either trades KG to LA this year, or watches him go wherever he wants next year.

    Kevin McHale begins to look for a job to manage an up and coming semi pro team somewhere in South Asia.

    For those who bought into the “Kobe trade to Chicago” myth, the Paxon interview excerpt published in the Times today should put that to rest, leaving Kobe a Laker at least for the coming season. Unless he’s talking to his dad to figure out how to pull a “Jelly Bean” and move to Europe?

    For us mere mortal Laker fans, it is time to be patient, watch and enjoy the forces at play. Right now, the stars seem to be aligning OUR way.

  37. I dont care who we trade for, Kobe is going to pout and will probably sit out until he is traded. We need to sign Chauncey Billups and then go from there.

  38. By the way, in the SB Nation mock draft:

    With the 40th pick, the Lakers take Nick Fazekas, Nevada.

    We wanted to trade this pick to Minnesota straight up for Kevin Garnett, but that didn’t work for some reason, so we go with the best player on the board. Big men with good range from outside work well in the triangle offense, and Nick will have time to work on his game behind Vlad Radmanovic and Brian Cook.

    Not the guy I wanted, but not much quality left on the board and he was the highest rated guy left. Considered Tucker from Wisconsin but his game, by all accounts, is not a triangle fit. Nick, if Cook or Vlad get traded, can be a potential backup in that role.

  39. I still think Phoenix is ‘layin in the weeds’.

    They are approaching salary cap hell, their team is not quite good enough, and they have 2 1sts this year and 2 1sts next year.

    They are in the driver’s seat in helping another club to rebuild and get a Garnett type talent.

    While no one is talking about them, I think we better keep our fingers crossed they don’t jump in front of us and steal our thunder.

  40. Bad News

    Although This is not a reliable source

    http://probasketballnews.com/pbnbrkng_062607.html

    The trade that would have sent Kevin Garnett to the Lakers is “officially dead,”

    :-( (

  41. A mid-level type guy taking the minimum to chase a championship is one thing. A max guy taking the mid-level is another. Ainge should pull the trigger. If he tried to leave the C’s as a free agent it would be one of the most self-destrutive moves I can remember.

    And if he does leave, well Celtics you now have cap space to sign a max player even with Pierce and Sczerbiak on the books still in 08-09. There isn’t alot of downside.

    If I’m the C’s I pull the trigger today for the two team deal and not worry about a guarantee from Garnett. 10+MM a year for the rest of his career is alot to give up when his knee or back could blow out next year and without an extension in place, never get paid again.

    I’ve decided to call all the former Celtics who a GM’s the Red Mafia.

  42. Garnett is the only player I would consider ‘gutting’ our front court for. If that is dead, then let’s move forward on the draft front and be receptive to lesser trades, but don’t give up our future young guy (Bynum).

  43. Kurt, posting today without comment about a 2nd round pick in a mock draft is so wonderfully disciplined that I feel compelled to respond. Personally, I’d be thrilled with getting Fazekas with the 40th pick. I wouldn’t even be upset getting him at 19, depending on who else is available.

    Over at Hoops Analyst, Ed Weiland has him as the 4th best power forward in the draft, ahead of Splitter, McRoberts and Jason Smith, all of whom figure to be 1st round picks. He compares favorably to Kenny Thomas, which would be fine by me, especially in the 2nd round. Thomas, by the way, was drafted 22nd, just ahead of one Devean George, and scored 8 points and grabbed 6 rebounds in 25 minutes per game as a rookie,

    In the real world, I doubt Fazekas makes it that far down the board. Weiland also likes Herbert Hill and DJ Strawberry as potential second rounders.

  44. Gerald Wallace is a unrestricted free agent. I know I keep pressing the same idea but giving up Kobe and getting #9, Ty Thomas, Kirk Hinrich, Nicocioni and Gerald Wallace in the process is a major improvemt of the team. Why does this make sense to no one in the Laker front office. If they are fixated on getting s super-star for Kobe, thats just pure, in the box, thinking. LA makes stars. That is what Hollywood is all about. Thomas could become a superstar and a team with that much overall talent would win and pull the fans in. 1988 Dodgers had no stars on it and LA loved that team. This trade and signing would make these Lakers much more talented, in a relative sense, then the 1988 Dodgers were. Which of us will not cheer when Kobe turns the corner on Wallace and heads baseline towards the basket and finds Odom has rotated off whoever is playing PF for the Bulls. Kobe stops, pump fakes three times and as he rises up to shoot over LO, Wallace come out of nowhere and deflects the ball to a streaking Hinrich who pushes the ball ahead to Ty Thomas and we get a fast break slam dunk (Bynum will be watching from underneath the other basket but thats another story). Staples would love a team like that.

  45. True Hoop has a link to a free Hollinger draft analysis. Worth a read, for sure. It is, as I said, free–Insider preview. I have considered getting Insider just to read Hollinger. Stuckey is #9 by his system. Durant absolutely crushes Oden and is the best prospect acc to this system in the last several years. Oden is still #2.

    I am not ready to give up on KG coming here, FWIW. I think the odds are against it but there is a chance.

  46. ESPN just said that Kupchak has been telling other GMs that the deal is dead. They now say that a deal is in place to send KG to PHX with Marion going to Boston and #5pick and garbage going to Minnesota. ESPN says the deal is contingent on Marion agreeing to an Extension with the Celtics.

    If this is true, PHX will rule the pacific division for years to come and Kobe is not going to be too happy about that

  47. More surgery for Brown

    Kwame Brown will undergo surgery Wednesday morning to remove the bursa sac and scar tissue in his right shoulder. A timetable for Brown’s return will be established after the surgery, although it is believed he will be ready for the start of training camp. Brown had been shooting free throws at the Lakers’ training facility while wearing a boot and recovering from the ankle surgery he had last month

  48. it doesn’t make much sense why minne would want boston’s heap of garbage instead of bynum and odom. especially if brown was included to offload one of the wolves bad contracts. bynum alone is better than whoever they get at #5. mchale must really hate the lakers or be as dumb as everyone says.

  49. This is not over yet. We all knew that this would be a bidding WAR between the Lakers and Suns. The Suns had the lead through 1 day, Lakers took day 2, Suns came back and won day 3 (today). Until the deal is actually finished then we still have a chance.

    The reported deal right now is:
    KG to PHX
    Marion to BOS
    #5, “other players” to MIN

    Minnesota clearly wants what Boston has to offer them and they don’t really care if KG goes to LA or PHX as long as they get the Boston package. Boston is hesitant on JO because they don’t like him. They like Marion but fear his opt out.

    Mitch needs to call the TWolves and Celtics and outbid Phoenix’s offer of Marion, and supposedly Kurt Thomas, by offering Odom, Bynum, Kwame and the 19.

    Honestly, why would Boston not rather recieve Bynum and Odom as opposed to just Marion? Then Minnesota could have Bostons #5 and our #19 and Kwame.

    There is still work to do and 2 days til the draft.

  50. It’s not inconceivable that McHale doesn’t want to give his best player to his rival, the Lakers. It would be stupid in my mind. It basically says, “we’re going to rebuild while we watch LA stomp over us for a few years and win a championship”.

    A trade with Boston is not “garbage”.

    1. It’s in the Eastern division.

    2. Al Jefferson, Delonte West, and Gerald Green are not garbage.

    3. The #5 pick is SOLID in this draft.

    A win for both teams.

    A trade with Phoenix would also be stupid.

  51. Here’s some more bad news!
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2917804
    according to this, the Suns are about to get Charlotte’s #8 pick and are so confident, they have been working out lottery pick players. This means as of right now, they are looking at getting KG for Marion AND the #8 pick in the draft!

  52. Steve Kerr has been on the job 2 weeks and he is making Kupchak look bad already

  53. I also found the Hollinger college rankings really interesting. I think in general Hollinger is too far on the extreme end of over-relying on numbers, but I appreciate his efforts to quantify things like this. According to his list, Fazekas at 40 will be an incredible steal, he’s 7th on that last. Am also surprised by the big hit that two of my favorite guys, Acie Law and Nick Young, take with his system.

  54. I think Atlanta will end up being the key in any Lakers/T-Wolves deal.

    Here are a few that I came up with:

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~2748~617~615~396~489~2016~2786~959~261&teams=16~11~11~1~13~16~16~13~11~13

    With Min getting the Lakers 19th, the Hawks 3rd, and the Lakers 2009 First Round Pick

    or

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~2748~617~261~387~396~489~2797~959&teams=16~1~1~13~13~16~16~16~16

    With Min getting the Lakers 19th, the Hawks 3rd, and the Lakers 2009 First Round Pick

    or

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~2748~617~396~489~2797~959~261~387&teams=16~16~1~16~16~16~16~13~13

    With Min getting the Lakers 19th, the Hawks 11th, and the Lakers 2009 First Round Pick

  55. In that second scenario, Minn also get’s the 11th pick…

  56. i don’t think atlanta has any interest in doing anything unfortunately..

  57. Looking at the three way trade from a Celtics>Wolves> Suns perspective, this three way deal is a win-win-win!

    If Shawn Marion wants to sacrifice his championship hopes so that KG can realize his, they’ve clearly got a deal. Why Marion would sign a contract extension so that he has a long term commitment to Boston would be a total mystery to me. Wouldn’t he be better off waiting and becoming a free agent?

    As a Sun, Garnett could instantly reverse the balance against San Antonio by neutralizing Duncan.

    The Lakers can’t be overly distracted by this front court superstar hysteria when their biggest basketball problem remains finding a defensively minded point guard.

    If they don’t panic, I believe that as their “bigs” get healthy down the line, the superstar trade (whatever it becomes) will take care of itself.

    Where they may have been beaten by the Suns most badly seems to be in the area of moving up in the first round of the draft. A draft pick even a little higher could be a big win–even if he were to be part of an immediate trade package. I’d like to believe that the Lakers have a behind the scenes deal for that purpose.

  58. Now that the KG trade is dead, can Lakers fans commit collective suicide since our hearts have officially been ripped out of our chests and thrown against the wall?

  59. If we don’t get Garnett, it may be alright. We had a decent team last year before the injuries. The missing piece is a point guard. Instead of trading the core of our team away for another superstar, maybe we should go out and get that piece, even if it means cap hell. I’m talking Chauncey Billups. Pay him well and get him, Cupcake! Use the veterans exception for Grant Hill.

    PG: Billups/Farmar
    SG; Kobe/Sasha
    SF; Hill/Luke
    PF: Odom/Turiaf
    C: Kwame/Bynum

    Tell me that doesn’t contend. The weak link is the center position, but that was also the case on the Jordan Bulls.

  60. I am not going to give up on KG until I see a PHX deal confirmed. I do think that there is a personal angle here, as I mentioned weeks ago (others said it, too): I think McHale would have a hard time, emotionally, sending Garnett to LA. Steve Kerr is a very popular/respected guy and I think McHale would have an easier time with Garnett winning rings in PHX while McHale tries to build the TWolves. Seeing KG and Kobe celebrating big wins, title or no, while Jack Nicholson claps his hands–as an old Celtic, that would be tough on McHale. McHale WOULD send KG here in spite of that if the Lakers clearly had a better deal, but things being relatively equal, I think McHale would obviously prefer to help Kerr and maybe save Ainge’s job than to hand the Lakers a superstar.

    chopperdave 55: I agree, and I liked that Hollinger made a couple of concessions about how scouting and stats can work together. That is common sense, but people sometimes forget it. The article also has a tangential relation to the current KG situation: The top two guys in their respective drafts according to the Hollinger rankings were Luol Deng and Tyrus Thomas, Thomas by a huge, huge margin. Reed made the point a few days ago that Kupchak, when ordered to move Shaq, should have focused more on getting cap room than on getting multiple players per se. And, in that case, with Kobe Bryant still on the roster and the Lakers’ recruiting advantages, Reed was clearly right. Those conditions, however, do not apply to a rebuilding team in Minnesota. If McHale focuses too much on “cap relief” I think he will be making a mistake. The Atlanta/Joe Johnson contract is an object lesson there. So, IMO, McHale needs picks and players, not cap space. To me, landing Deng and Thomas should be the #1 priority, not messing around with Celtics. It may be, of course, that Paxson either does not want to do it or can’t do it because Nocioni and/or Brown won’t agree, or Garnett really is that averse to cold weather, but I still think Chicago and Minnesota should be the ones talking.

  61. Minn/Atlanta/PHX deal only happens if it Involves Amare. Not sure if PHX is willing to do that.

    Atlanta/Lakers/Pacers/Minn could happen if the Hawks are willing to give up the number three pick for JO.

    Boston/PHX/Minn deal only goes down if Marion doesn’t veto a Boston deal. Last week his agent stated that he did not want to go there. As well, in any deal with Boston McHale wants to hold out for Al Jefferson. That is what killed the Lakers/Pacers/Boston/Minn deal. In the current proposed PHX/Minn/Boston package, Minn is getting the same deal they would have gotten in the Lakers deal (the number 5, the number 19, Gerald Green and expiring contracts). So this deal might not have legs either.

  62. JONESONTHENBA, while your deal makes sense, you’re pinning your hopes on Billy Knight making the smart move. That doesn’t make me terribly confident. I wouldn’t be shocked if he took Bobby Brown with the third pick.

  63. What I don’t get is why the hell does Indiana have to be included in any multi team deal we make?

    The killer in the 4 team deal was Indiana. Boston didn’t want JO. Why didn’t we give Boston Odom and Bynum instead of trying to include Indiana?

    Now I hear the 4 team deal being talked about with Atlanta having to take JO to make it work.

    Why? Why not offer Atlanta Odom and Bynum to make it work?

    Screw Indiana… they are ruining this deal because nobody wants to give up so much for JO. Mitch seems like he is entitled to include them in any discussion!

    KG to LA
    Odom Bynum to Boston
    #5 and whatever was going to be in the BOS/PHX/MIN deal to Minnesota.

  64. JONES,

    I think Phoenix would trade Amare to Atlanta if they can do one of two things, move into the top 10 of the draft or get rid of Marcus Banks or Boris Diaw to shed some salary.

    Diaw, #24 and #29 to Charlotte for the #8 works and that would free up cap space to bring in KG and avoid the luxury tax.

    KG to LA ain’t going to happen. We just don’t have the pieces or the creativity to make it happen.

  65. Oh, and if we trade Lamar, Bynum, and #19 for JO (or worse yet, include Kwame and take back Troy Murphy) I think I might shoot myself in the face.

    I just don’t see it as an upgrade on the court or for the franchise moving forward.

  66. 65) Boston does want JO, but not for Al Jefferson and the number 5. Anytime Boston is involved, that is what Minn is looking to get from the deal. If they just took the number 5, Gerald Green, Cap filler and the Lakers number 19, that deal would have already been done. Boston only wants to move Jefferson and the number 5 for KG. That is the same issue that would hold up a potential PHX/Min/Boston deal. They will not give up the number 5 and Al Jefferson just to get Marion. Plus Marion has indicated that he doesn’t want to stay in Boston. So the key to whether KG ends up in either PHX or LA seems to be two things: 1) Atlanta’s willingness to participate in a three or four way deal. 2)PHX’s willingness to trade Amare. If PHX is willing to move Amare the Lakers have no chance. But if they are not, it still seems like the Lakers have the next best chance to get something done.

  67. I see your point Jones and I agree. I wouldn’t trade Jefferson and the #5 for JO either.

    But my point is… if we exclude JO from this proposed trade (and seemingly every proposed trade involving the Lakers), would Boston trade Jefferson and #5 for Odom and Bynum?

  68. skigi,

    Not to chime in, but an answer to your question in 69), absolutely NO. I think Jefferson is as close to untouchable as it gets in Boston (probably more so than Pierce). I think what Boston wants to do is add another quality/All-Star type veteran to the Pierce-Jefferson duo. They are willing to give up the #5 to do that. And like JONES said, they would include both for KG, but KG only.

  69. Drew Boy,
    First of all, you can chime in whenever you want, I post my opinions so others can give me their opinions and we can discuss.

    You are right I agree with you, Jefferson probably isn’t worth anything besides KG, the kid is pretty underrated.

    So I’m a little confused now… in the proposed BOS/PHX/ MIN trade… would Boston be giving up Jefferson? If not, if they’re just giving up #5 and fillers to get Marion, that is where I think we can outbid the Suns and offer Odom and Bynum to them (assuming they were going to keep Jefferson.

    I would personally rather have a nucleus of Pierce, Jefferson, Odom, Bynum than a nucleus of Pierce, Jefferson, Marion (for probably only one year)

  70. Maybe after all the wheelers and dealers have whelt and delt, we will be back at square one for a KG trade–and it probably will be very simple–as long as KG controls the game.

    I still think that any Garnett deal this year goes through LA, but if Garnett waits and opts out, it may be Phoenix.

    to KG, in a paraphrase of Alice Cooper:

    With the Lakers, you could take the lead;
    You got the desire; we’ve got the need
    They lie right at you; you know you hate that game;
    with the T-Wolves or the Celtics
    you’ve got more loser pain

    We got Laker need
    We got Kobe need
    And Phil Jackson need

    None of us need to bleed

  71. Timberwolves talking three-way Garnett deal

    By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
    June 27, 2007

    NEW YORK – Minnesota Timberwolves forward Kevin Garnett is close to going to the Phoenix Suns in a monumental three-way trade that would send Phoenix forward Amare Stoudemire to the Atlanta Hawks, league sources said Wednesday.

    Atlanta would move the Nos. 3 and 11 picks.

  72. Atlanta would move the Nos. 3 and 11 picks in Thursday’s draft, as well as Zaza Pachulia and Anthony Johnson, to Minnesota

  73. skigi,

    I guess Ainge is holding pat with the #5 pick. To be honest, that’s smart. Every year an All-Star goes on the trading block at the deadline. When it happens Boston has Theo Ratliff’s expiring and a ton of young talent. They’re a prime candidate to acquire said All-Star.

    All that being said, when the offseason first started, I thought the best thing the Lakers could have done was basically stand pat. Kwame would become more valuable as he contract got closer to expiring, and I’m assuming Bynum gets in better shape and a few of his questions are answered making him more valuable. But alas, that ain’t happening.

    I wonder if Minnesota would be willing to part with the #7 pick if this whole thing goes down. They would still have #3 and #11, and we could offer Bynum and Sasha for Trent Hassell and the #7.

    I think at #7 we could get a player that could contribute more than Bynum and Hassell is a good wing defender.

    I just hope we don’t trade for JO. I can feel it coming and it scares me to death.