Lakers Sign Gerald Green

Darius Soriano —  December 13, 2011

The news has slown down a bit after the Lamar Odom trade but that doesn’t mean the Lakers are not working to fill the holes on their roster. After all, the first real-live-counts-in-the-standings game is in less than two weeks. So as the Lakers prepare to play the Bulls by installing their offensive and defensive schemes, the front office must also work to give Mike Brown the players that can execute them on the court.

One player that has inked a deal to try and earn a roster spot is Gerald Green. The former slam dunk champ has been in Lakers’ camp the past couple of years and hasn’t yet stuck, but he gets another opportunity under Mike Brown. The details on the contract aren’t yet known but my hunch is that this will not be a guaranteed deal, but rather a “make good” contract that the team can pick up should Green show enough over the next week and half to earn a roster spot.

Green’s game has always been based off athleticism and his ability to run the floor and finish in transition would help the Lakers. That said, running, jumping, and dunking isn’t all there is to do on a basketball court. Green’s handle, playmaking, rebounding, and defense have always been average at best (and that may be generous). He’s flashed range on his jumper but making shots and taking the right ones haven’t always gone hand in hand. Said another way, Green’s instincts to make the correct basketball play nevery really caught up to his body’s ability to complete them. Thus he’s been in and out of the NBA since he was a high draft pick many moons ago.

If that’s changed, the Lakers may have found themselves a bargain contributor that can play spot minutes. If it hasn’t, the Lakers have another camp body to take some of the wear and tear off the legs of veteran guards and wings who are working overtime to get ready for the season. I wish Green all the luck in making the roster but I have my doubts we’ll be seeing him wearing Laker colors on December 25th.

Darius Soriano

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to Lakers Sign Gerald Green

  1. Gerald Green and I am hearing Josh McRoberts! Mitch wasn’t kidding, they were working on some BIG DEALS!!!!


  2. Green essentially replaces Shannon Brown at a lower price. Shannon has only has success with the Lakers. He was a d-league bench warmer before he came here. Green is similarly situated. Both are medicore defenders and ball handlers. Both have great hops and athleticism. At least Green was able to finish in the dunk finals.


  3. @1–McRoberts (if the money was right) isn’t a “big” move, but it’s a “smart” one from a PF-C depth standpoint….


  4. Ya hopefully Green has refined his game to the point that he can bring a spark and energy each night like Brown did.

    I don’t really get people who get upset about these types of moves, Our Championship hopes will not rise and fall on the Green & McRobert’s of the world


  5. asked this in the last post…

    question: if we acquired a player with the TPE we got for LO, can that player be packaged immediately in another deal? I think sheed ended up in detroit right after he got traded in ’04 (to atlanta?), so just wondering if that’s possible.

    if it is, isn’t the TPE more flexible to be used to build mitch’s “big deal” than LO’s contract?


  6. #5. TPE’s are stand alone assets and cannot be combined with any other players or exceptions in a trade.

    As for your question about Rasheed – any player acquired in a trade cannot be traded in a package deal until after a waiting period. He can, however, be traded by himself quickly. Rasheed was traded by himself to Detroit from Atlanta after playing in only one game. By the rules, this was legal.


  7. Besides Green and McRoberts who is this Malcolm Thomas. Well, here is what I found out:

    Maybe individually, they are not yet at par with LO but I think they have upside in FT % with the spirit that could eventually duplicate LO. They are all athletic and willing to don the purple and gold while LO considers himself as an untouchable dude just because he is a senior Laker with Hollywood resume. Let’s go on a clean slate and change that old mojo.


  8. I think its safe to assume that the period for pre season trades for this Laker team is over. I think the Magic and Hornets are being a bit too greedy and Mitch’s best approach is to wait and see what happens.

    Having said that, what options does this Laker team have at filling out the current roster holes? I think we need at least a backup center and maybe another guard. I just don’t know who’s available for what this team can afford without breaking the bank.


  9. why haven’t we traded for dwight yet?! david stern ruined our team! we’ll never win a championship! how can we get turkoglu? mitch kupchak and jim buss need to die! mwaaaah it was a conspiracy!!!

    i don’t have a nuanced understanding of basketball operations or player valuations or team dynamics, but HEAR ME OUT ANYWAY and TAKE ME SERIOUSLY.


  10. Darius,
    From the previous post:
    “As an aside, does anyone really think Mitch isn’t working his tail off to try and find more assets to build the strongest team possible?”

    I think the question a lot of us have is what the priorities are at this point (after the Paul deal fell through):

    1) Are the Lakers trying to optimize to compete for a title this season

    2) Are they trying to set themselves up to get Howard and/or Paul mid-season or as free agents later post-season,

    3) Has their attitude towards spending changed as they transition from Jerry to Jim, with the new CBA.


  11. Green? Meh. Pretty much agree with StevieGJD: Shannon Brown. It’s fine. you need that stuff, too. This year is going to go about as well as replacing Lamar goes.

    Over on ESPN, Skip Bayless is “debating” the moron formerly known as Stephen A. Smith. Besides being thoroughly disrespectful (using the actual meaning of the word, Stephen) to Bayless, he managed to argue a point by shouting his original opinion, and declaring Dwight Howard a superstar.

    What happened was this: Bayless claimed that, if Bynum was healthy (physically and mentally), he’d take him over Howard. Smith goes into theatrical hysterics and questions his sanity. By way of argument, he suggests that Bynum has bad knees because he likes small sports cars (?). While this seems to be subsumed under the “physically healthy” caveat, he is undeterred. He shouts repeatedly that Dwight is a SUPAstar!

    I bring this up not to point out Smith’s glaring mental deficiencies, but rather to pose this question to all of us Laker fans: what do we really gain from trading Bynum for Howard, straight up? Forget all the other stuff Orlando would demand for now. What is the improvement?

    His defense orientation would nicely complement Pau, yes. But if Pau is gone, Bynum may actually be the superior player to Howard. Dwight had 13.5 rebounds per 36 vs. Bynium’s 12.2, but he didn’t play with two other 7-footers. So rebounding looks roughly even. You hear a lot about shot blocking, but ‘Drew blocks at a higher rate (2.5/36 vs. 2.3/36), so that’s not it either.

    Using Basketball Reference and the estimated 2500 Laker games I’ve watched as a guide, I’d have to say the two big things you get from Howard are 1. everyone’s perception of him as the superior player (who cares?) and 2. his spotless injury HISTORY vs. Bynum’s terrible one.

    That injury thing may be a big deal, and it may not. I am an investor, and will be the first to tell you that it is dangerous to project the past forward. Still, it is one of the few things we have to go on. So I pose the question this way: If Howard and Bynum are the same guy, and we expect Howard to play twice as many minutes, THEN what is the trade worth? What if the minutes Bynum misses aren’t in the playoffs?

    How many rings do they each have?


  12. “why haven’t we traded for dwight yet?! david stern ruined our team! we’ll never win a championship! how can we get turkoglu? mitch kupchak and jim buss need to die! mwaaaah it was a conspiracy!!!”



  13. Caracter’s out for a while now after tearing cartilege in his knee today.

    For an older team, I’m very worried about depth. We’re now down to a 3 man roster in the front court, which will require fairly significant minutes for Pau, Bynum and McRoberts, especially in the early games without Bynum.

    At the swing positions, will Barnes be backing up both Artest and Kobe? Is Walton retiring?

    We all have our concerns about PG production, yet the Fisher/ Blake rotation is the best known pair we have now… And needs to be upgraded.

    L.A. may be able to use it’s trade exception for a rotation player or 2, but I don’t know how much to rely on that. Instead I suppose they’ll try to rely on Ebanks and the rookies, hoping they mature quickly.

    This year feels like 2003 to me. A juggernaut whose role players had been weathered gradually over the years until it couldn’t be hidden any more behind Shaq’s injury. But we’ll see.


  14. #10. exhelodrvr,
    What I’ve found is some not only have those questions (which are fair), but have already determined what the answers are too (not so fair).


  15. At least they’re signing people. Sounds like 2 or 3 stiffs, but bodies are bodies right now.

    I don’t think the DH deal is dead, I think Bynum a) has a 5-game suspension to serve and b) has to show he’s somewhere near the level he showed last spring when he turned into a defensive terror. Once his value is reestablished, it’ll go back into the works.

    I think if the Chris Paul trade had gone off Orlando would have been pressured to move Dwight at the same time, and Howard saying “Maybe Orlando’s okay after all” is Magic management going to him and saying “Shut up, you’re killing your value by making noise. We’ll have to dump you, and if we have to dump you for crappy parts, then we might as let you play out the season here and hope for a sign-and-trade instead.”


  16. 11) you gotta be kidding me. Which player would you rather have? The one with two bum knees, a poor temper, and takes too many elbow jumpers for a 7″ monster? Or the one who flys around making monster blocks in transition, rarely misses games, racks up DPOY awards, and reminds everybody of a hard-working version of Shaq?

    The sane argument will never be “Howard vs. Bynum”, it will be “Howard vs. Bynum *and* Gasol”.


  17. @Firewalker,

    I can’t believe you had the patience to watch a “debate” between Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless. You are a better man (or woman) than me.

    To your point, I think Bynum is a better offensive player with Howard being a better defensive player. Bynum relies more on skill whereas Howard relies heavily on his athleticism. With that said, the injury issue can’t be overlooked. It’s to the point we are asking “when” not “if” when it comes to Bynum. For me, that is one of the main reasons why Odom’s trade hurts so much.


  18. So far what we need now is a starting PG, hopefully Morris will pan out as a superb PG if not survive in NBA.

    Dwight and Chris’ availability will still be there. Lakers cannot stop functioning or moving forward if we rest our hopes on this two. Let the chips fall on right places and if they want to be a Laker then it’s two-way street. Work for it and don’t send mixed signals like what DH is doing now that is really confusing.

    The player who were signed are no big deals but they can be great deals in the long run if they find the Lakers as their spring board to success. Green and Thomas are leapers, very athletic with good heights. Kapono and McRoberts are good shooters with reputation in NCAA, they could fill our perimeter shooting. Gone will be the days with those bricks and clanks while outstanding players like UPS and Blake are just standing around spectating at Kobe.

    Let’s go Lakers bring back the Showtime with this young crew.


  19. 6,
    I realize that TPEs can’t be used in combination in a deal. just wondering if we can acquire a player with it, and then swing that player in a package for a possible “big deal”. so it can be “whatever your team needs that’s around $8.9mil, that we might be able to fetch from another team” as part of the package, instead of just LO, which the team we’re trading with might not need / want.

    how long is that waiting period?


  20. I’m watching the You Tube on Josh McRoberts, he can play ball.

    Perfect Showtime or just plain hotdogging, it’s either of the two. Time to get excited Laker fans.


  21. 9 – You bring up some strong points, Butthurt.

    Are Millsap and Daniels just training camp fodder? Or are any actually expected to make the team?

    Like most others, I don’t have high expectations for Gerald Green actually making the team. His greatest utility at this point is likely blowing out candles at Kobe’s 34th birthday party. But I hope I’m wrong.

    Fun article for Lakers fans. Read about how Rondo didn’t like getting critiqued while watching game film so he shattered the TV and ran out of the practice facility:


  22. #19. Ah, I understand better now. In order for this to work, it would have to play out like this:

    *Lakers acquire player X using trade exception.

    *Lakers make first trade with a team for player Y.

    *Lakers make second trade with that same team using player X for player Z.

    This would allow the Lakers to trade for multiple players from the same team but by involving a third team using the trade exception. That’s the only scenario I see that working but there could be more that I have not thought of.


  23. some can handle the waiting, some can’t. there is no way of answering #10’s three conjectures at this point in time. until trades are announced and approved and consummated, we won’t know which direction the team is headed (and who is making the decisions).

    as far as winning this season, that won’t be an issue until the final trade deadline before playoffs begin.

    any reports on what condition caracter was in, when he got to training camp? sounds like he may have been overweight again.


  24. 22.
    yes that’s what I mean. and if the waiting period is short enough to allow player x to be combined in the player y+z trade (instead of 2 separate deals, which can make salary matching can be more flexible?), it opens up a lot of possibilities as to what we can do, the kind of contract we can take on, etc.

    I think since essentially we were prepared to part with LO on the dwight trade anyway, this may be another way of achieving the same end.


  25. can someone explain why we are not going after Gilbert Arenas? He can come in as cheap as Billups (2m/year) and is definitely an upgrade from fisher and blake. He’s not as good as he used to be, but playing with the talent Lakers have should easily get him 10 pts 4 assists per game for 25 min.


  26. Marc Stein: Done deal: Mavs agree to send Rudy F and Brewer to Denver for future second-rounder, according to sources with knowledge of trade

    Would have been nice to grab those two guys with Sasha’s exception… Rudy for 3 mil for one year and Brewer for 2 mil 2 years


  27. han,
    I think the waiting period is either 30 or 60 days. I can’t recall.


  28. The truth is we really don’t know who Bynum is a player there have been about 5 or 6 iterations of him. I love the 19 year Bynum in 2007, before he hurt his knee the first time. The one with confidence in his knee who was flying for alley oops and didn’t have to gather himself before dunking. I loved that one. I also love the 20 game stretch of Bynum we saw post all-star break, the one who challenged every shot, fought for every rebound and basically played like how I imagine Bill Russell played in the late 50’s.
    If one of those two Bynums comes back I wouldn’t trade him for anyone, not even Dwight Howard. The other Bynums, the injury prone ones who are more interested in showing off his post moves (which are good but still) then playing hard nose defense? You couldn’t get me to accept a Bynum for Howard trade fast enough.


  29. arenas was already signed by the mav’s


  30. @25 – Because he’s a terrible basketball player and would be a complete waste of a roster spot.


  31. #29. You’re either mistaking Gilbert Arenas for Vince Carter/Delonte West or you’ve read a report that literally no one else has that can’t be found on the internet using a google search.


  32. #11
    I accept your rationale here and agree with you to a certain extent. But you hit the key question, Can Bynum remain healthy?

    Taking health out of the equation for now, for the sake of debate, who is superior? Hard to say. Howard is more dominant (like Shaq), while Bynum is more skilled (like Kareem). It apears to me that it would depend on which C would be a better “fit” to the team. For the current Lakers, filled with smart veteran players, it probably wouldn’t make much difference. It’s basically a coin toss. However, if I had a choice personally, I would chose Howard’s dominance to complement Gasol’s all-world skill set. Our 3-headed frontline rotation of Bynum, Gasol and Odom was formidable, but we really lacked a dominant bruiser, which Howard would provide. For “non-basketball reasons” Howard’s personality would also be a huge hit in Hollywood.

    Now back to reality, Bynum has a history of injury. Mitch was confident enough in those knees to trade away Odom, who was used as somewhat of an insurance policy for Bynum. With ORL willing, I would trade Bynum, Picks, and some change for Howard, and not much more. Definitely not for Bynum AND Gasol. No Way. Unless we get close to equal value back for Gasol.


  33. Will the Lakers still have to use Sasha’s trade exception by 15DEC?


  34. Waiting is a good strategy too, and we won’t suffer much for it. Our new coach and new system is easier for new players to adjust to compared to the triangle, so we are better equipped to change things on the fly compared to the years under PJ.

    I think it’s good that we fill the roster with bodies first. Those are doable tasks and, although not valuable assets in and of themselves, could become more valuable after showcasing them during games as we’ll make use of them thanks to our lack of depth.


  35. 1) Are the Lakers trying to optimize to compete for a title this season

    2) Are they trying to set themselves up to get Howard and/or Paul mid-season or as free agents later post-season,

    3) Has their attitude towards spending changed as they transition from Jerry to Jim, with the new CBA.

    Good questions all. On a microlevel, there are other questions:

    1. Who is going to replace Lamar Odom? (apparently Josh McRoberts)
    2. Why, exactly, was Odom traded?
    Money? Emotions? Just because he asked? Part of a larger plan? All of these?
    3. Who is the backup 5?
    4. Are they going to add another guard? If so, who? When? I do not think it is Gerald Green.

    And beyond all that are your questions and the big questions–Jimmy Buss, Howard, Paul.

    Are they really trying hard to get Howard? If so, are they willing to trade Gasol AND Bynum to get him?
    Is there any chance of another run at Paul?
    Is Kupchak still driving the Buss, or is the Buss driving him? Or is it collaborative?


  36. I’m still wondering how in the world the Clips won the bidding war for Chauncey Billups. $2mil a year seems like a steal for a guy who a lot of contenders would love to have.


  37. In regards to attitude towards spending, I don’t think we can gleam much yet from the proposed or rumored moves. I can read it both ways as to they were willing to spend to get superstars or the moves were to cut money elsewhere after the superstars were acquired.

    I think it would be more telling to see who the Lakers have hired back after the lockout. The player transactions are sexy news, but let’s not forget about the organization support people.

    What used to separate the Lakers from other teams like the Clippers were their willingness to spend on scouts, video coordinators, etc. They paid more and had a bigger staff than most.

    I was willing to give the Busses’ the benefit of doubt with the lockout layoffs since all the clubs were doing that. But what about now? Have all the personnel been rehired? How’s the scouting staff? Is there a replacement for Lester? Did equipment manager Rudy Garciduenas get hired back right away?

    To me the answers to those questions would be more telling as to the current attitude towards spending.


  38. 16) I would rather have DH.

    The question is about price.
    What are the extra games worth? (a lot)
    What are the DPOY awards worth? (virtually nothing)
    What is “fly[ing] around making monster blocks in transition” worth? (about the same as any other blocks are)

    So, one can make a case for paying a substantial amount more.

    But, in the “you gotta be kidding me” department: a harder working version of Shaq? Really?
    FYI, Shaq was the most unstoppable offensive force of the post-Jordan era. He made guys foul out like crazy, scored when he wanted to, and made Arvydas Sabonis cry (awesome!). Howard is still miles short of Shaq. The hard work is nice, though.

    The best part of our 3 big man roster was injury resistance. It has really helped when ‘Drew was down. However, there are no guarantees in life, and assuming Howard will be healthier than Bynum is overestimating one’s knowledge of the future. Our brains seek narrative, and latch on to serial correlation (“that guy gets injured” or “deer come to this watering hole at night”), a fact that has been instrumental in the success of our species. But looks can be deceiving. In hindsight, random events (like Kobe rolling up on your leg) look inevitable. But Howard “fl[ies] around making monster blocks in transition,” so you never know if he’s going to pop an ACL or what-have-you.

    Still, Trevor, point taken. I’m not trying to dis’ you. Howard IS better.


  39. oops sorry, could have sworn i read where he was signed.


  40. Did anyone else think we might get Kwame for cheap? $7 million! Astounding.


  41. 36) I know. I guess his threats scared some people off. Props to the Clips for not giving in.


  42. Travis, sorry for referring to you as “Trevor.”
    No disrespect (still).


  43. 38- for real, that is a chunk of change they shelled out for Kwame. In what world is Kwame worth 3 and a half times what Chauncey Billups is worth? Oh, Warriors.


  44. The Clippers can have Chauncey; his streaky shooting kills his teams more often that it helps them anymore. Calling him “Mr. Big Shot” is like calling a bald man “Curly.”

    That said, Paul deal or not the Lakers are shaping up to be the second-best team playing at Staples this season.

    I fear this is going to be a long, long season for the Lakers, and we’re about to enter a period similar to 1991-1994, or 2004-2007 while we hope to see the pieces get put back together for another run.


  45. 35) robinred,
    My suspicion/fear is that they will end up trading Bynum and Gasol for Howard and ? (Nelson, maybe) – with the intent of setting themselves up for the post-Kobe era to be reasonably competitive, while in a good position relative to the luxury tax.


  46. What about using Sacha’s TPE for Randy Foye – the clippers now have billups, williams, and bledsoe at the 1 and will probably play some combination of them with gordan at the 2 – Foye might be expendable.

    Foye would be so much better for the money compared to blake at least he gives us some of what Shannon used to and even more – always tought that should have been the signing instead of Blake.

    Question – with the signing of Josh do we even have money to go after Areanas?

    Other FA’s that would be great
    – Michael Redd
    – Earl Clark
    – Kyrlo Fresenko
    – Leon Powe
    – Maurice Evans
    – DeShawn Stevenson

    How many roster spots do we even have left?


  47. Travis, the reason no contender added (or bid on) Billups is that all contenders are currently over the salary cap, and only teams under the salary cap had the right to bid on Billups. If no team under the cap had bid on him, he’d have been free to sign with any team of his choosing (read: Miami).

    On Bynum v. Howard I think you’re spot on. Today, there is simply no question who the better center is, but that’s largely irrelevant in light of Orlando’s refusal to make a straight up trade between those two. So, you’ve correctly asked the more relevant question of who is better between Howard on the one hand and both Bynum & Gasol on the other, and to me that one is equally clear. Great as he is, Dwight is not worth two all-star 7 footers.

    At this point, the Lakers best move is to do nothing re: Howard. If Bynum is healthy, he’ll likely have a great year. In doing so, he may well end up improving this trade from Orlando’s perspective (although he might also convince the Lakers that he’s the guy to build around).

    If Bynum gets hurt again, you don’t exercise the last year on his deal and you make a play for Howard as a free agent. Frankly, any other strategy at this point makes no sense unless you can get Orlando to trade Howard for Bynum straight up (which they won’t).


  48. The only silver lining re odom’s TPE is that it expires in a year. The other larger TPEs (Clev and Tor) expire next week. It does give Mitch a valuable tool down the road.

    That being said, anyone else concerned that Dallas may have anywhere from $20-25 mil in cap space next season, and may ostensibly pursue Dwill AND Dwight? Dallas has set itself up nicely for this season by amassing one year rentals, and will preserve cap space to make a big run. Even if we get Howard, I see Dallas snagging someone like Dwill plus a few other quality veterans. I am starting to hate Cuban more.


  49. Do you guys think we’re just going to let the Sasha TPE expire?

    I say yes, gotta maximize the amount we get from the fox deal


  50. My suspicion/fear is that they will end up trading Bynum and Gasol for Howard and ? (Nelson, maybe) – with the intent of setting themselves up for the post-Kobe era to be reasonably competitive, while in a good position relative to the luxury tax.


    Maybe. A few problems with that strategy, though, as you can surmise on your own. We can discuss them if it looks like it will actually happen, as per the site policy.

    Short-term, they still need another guard, preferably a combo guard. They need a guy who can back up Kobe and play the 1. It is my opinion that one reason the Clippers wanted Billups was to keep him off the Lakers, since Billups could have played 25 minutes a game here and done precisely those things (if he chose the Lakers over Miami, a big if and a moot point now).

    Even with the baggage he has, I think you can make a case that they should have gotten Delonte West for these exact reasons. Instead, of course, Dallas added him as well as Vince Carter.

    The Lakers also still need a semi-competent backup 5.

    If the McRoberts signing is real, Kupchak basically got a younger, cheaper, very poor man’s Lamar Odom. Not a bad idea given the reality of the roster situation–but the other holes are still there


  51. That being said, anyone else concerned that Dallas may have anywhere from $20-25 mil in cap space next season, and may ostensibly pursue Dwill AND Dwight?

    I have more immediate concerns, but that is clearly Cuban’s plan and clearly one reason that he opposed the Paul deal so loudly–no matter what spin Cuban feeds the media.


  52. @sportsguy33: Has anyone predicted the 2011-12 Lakers will be a lottery team yet? If not, I’d like to call dibs.
    19 minutes ago


  53. Funky Chicken:
    At this point, the Lakers best move is to do nothing re: Howard. If Bynum is healthy, he’ll likely have a great year. In doing so, he may well end up improving this trade from Orlando’s perspective (although he might also convince the Lakers that he’s the guy to build around).

    If Bynum gets hurt again, you don’t exercise the last year on his deal and you make a play for Howard as a free agent. Frankly, any other strategy at this point makes no sense unless you can get Orlando to trade Howard for Bynum straight up (which they won’t).

    Makes sense to me.


  54. Robinred,

    For a moment lets forget about Dallas being our #1 enemy (just became moreso with Odom) and focus on our own roster. Thats 2012.


  55. Marc Stein
    Just filed w/@Chris_Broussard: NBA officials and Clippers traded Chris Paul proposals into TUES night, but sources say Lakers back in hunt

    wow… you just don’t know ….


  56. Insanity. What a way to work the media with all the trade speculation and rumors and vetoes and whatnot.

    If this is all planned stuff, then they really know how to pull the fans’ strings.

    Where amazing happens. Good or bad.


  57. Not sure why some of you are down on the Lakers chances this year. If Bynum goes down, they are screwed, but if he is healthy I think a pretty decent team is coming together. I think some people are going to be surprised at how good they are under Brown.

    Of course, that “if Bynum goes down” statement is the main reason some of us were so eager to swap him + whatever (Kobe and Pau not included) for Howard.


  58. us on our own roster.

    I have a long comment about our roster stuck in moderation.


    ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
    ESPN sources: Lakers continue to express serious interest in Paul, w/package built around Pau, but search for third team on to supply youth


  59. maybe i am just grasping at straws, but every top tier player that wants to give stern the ole fingeroo, just has to refuse any extensions this season, and then sign with the lakers after this season ends.


  60. Re Paul, what part of “no means no” do we not understand. Time to move on. I cannot fathom what other package is acceptable to the NB, I mean New Orleans Hornets.


  61. NENE agrees to 5yrs, 67M.

    I knew this was gonna happen. That is why cap space is dangerous.


  62. Re: Simmons

    Classic Simmons–if he’s right, he can say, “see how smart I am”

    If he is wrong, he can say “hey, I hate the Lakers, and I was just kidding.”

    Respect to Simmons, though, for showing he is a basketball fan first when he ripped Stern for meddling in the process….


  63. who leaked that the lakers are back in this? not kupchak.

    this is just a ploy or a ruse by the league to pressure the clippers into swapping mo williams’ shorter deal for ariza’s longer one.


  64. I can’t believe anyone is still dealing with the league re: Paul at this point.


  65. @62:

    Watch the Nets double-down on Howard now…


  66. Was the signing of Green the big deal that Mitch was talking about?

    No Shannon; No Lamar; No Phil; No Jerry (only Jim);

    Please send hope


  67. I actually think the Nets are cooked. They have nothing to offer ORL but Lopez (and the cap space to take on Hedo). I was kind of worried they’d land Nene and then offer him in a package for D12.

    Methinks DWill may be available in summer 2012…


  68. @67/Robert: amen, brother.


  69. Green? You’ve got to be kidding me


  70. Andy Kamenetzky talked to Tim Donahue from the True Hoop Network’s Pacer blog 8 points, Nine Seconds and provided a scouting report on Josh McRoberts


  71. Just skimming through all the comments and absorbing the latest twist in the on-going C Paul saga. I admire Kupchak’s persistence, but he’s trying to beat the house. Stern has more chips than the Lakers. He doesn’t want Paul in LA and especially not with the Lakers. If Stern finally agrees to a deal, I worry it’s going to be at a price that ends hurting the us in the long run. It would not surprise me if Stern tries to teach the Lakers a lesson and send a message to the rest of the league by forcing us to overpay.


  72. 47) correction: we have *1* all star 7-footer. The other has the talent to do so (as did Lamar Odom, just sayin’), and the only thing he’s proven we can rely on him for is at least a month of missed games every season.

    That being said, I agree. Giving up 2 starters for Howard made sense before we lost Odom. Now, there’s no way packaging those two for Howard makes sense unless we somehow get another really nice piece back (young talent). A free agency swap next off season might be our best shot.


  73. Since Lakers have no control on Dwight or Chris, I think the new wave of players are decent enough to carry us this season.


    Gerald Green 6’8″ 7.5ppg 2 rpg 81% FT

    Josh McRoberts 6″10″ 7.4 ppg 5.3 rpg 74% FT

    Jason Kapono 6’8″ 6.7 ppg 3pt% .43 FT% 83%

    Malcolm Thomas 6’9″ 11.2ppg in College, an outstanding player in D’League and played in So. Korea.

    Compare them from the Outgoing:

    Lamar Odom – All around player master of none

    Shannon Brown – Dunking artist but inconsistent

    Josh Smith – past due

    Theo Ratcliff – too old

    Our veterans are still around to sustain offense and defense from defensive minded Peace, a healthy Barnes, Blake, old Fish and Luuuke.

    In totality, the young breed may flourish in Mike Brown’s coaching but I think they are good enough acquisition in absence of Superstars. Caracter is down but Ebanks, Gaudelok and Morris are there to prove that they belong to the Lakers. I think after 20 games, we’ll know how this group will be helping our trifecta – Kobe, Gasol and Bynum.

    On a new coaching environment, Lakers have now a mixture of veterans and youth.


  74. @74 – So we’re not gonna offer Bynum + Odom’s TPE + 2 future draft picks for Howard? Why? Is the Nets package with Lopez better for them?

    I still have hope.


  75. The main Laker scenario depends on Bynum remaining healthy and showing enough future potential so that the Magic would accept him, assets from the Lamar trade and other fillers for Howard and one other player (Not Turk). The odds are against this,but it`s the situation after Stern.


  76. The All Star Game is in Orlando this year. I see no reason for the Magic to move D Howard until then. If Andrew is healthy and kicking butt then (and an all star), then we can chat trades.

    In another note, what in the world could bring us back to the table with the Hornets? I’m trying to imagine what package of player(s) plus Odom’s trade exception would work here but I see nothing that would be worth while. Thoughts?


  77. I think people have to accept we’re not getting Paul. If we were going to have gotten him, it would already have happened. I think LO’s dealing was an impulsive, rushed move. I don’t think it was part of any greater strategy – if it was, the second part of the deal would have kicked in. That said, to read many comments, one would think we didn’t have AB, the Black Mamba, and Pau Gasol. Yeah, I think we’re worse off, but we’re still among the top five teams in the league so I think some folks need to relax.


  78. Marc Stein reports that Gasol would be the centerpiece of the Chris Paul trade if it went down, but the league still wants youth as well so the Lakers would have to find a third team to get that. But then what does LA have to offer the third team to give them incentive to get involved? Not much if you ask me, Clippers by far have the best deal on the table. Stern is asking for everything that team has, if I were the Clippers and I wanted to be competitive there is no way I would give up what the league is asking for. Trading for Chris Paul essentially gives them Paul, Griffin and DeAndre Jordan after this year. Yes you could build around that but why have 3 great players when you have the potential for a great TEAM. Plus factor in the pick that the league wants could be a lottery pick, you very well could pick up another superstar in the making in this deep draft. Add in Billups and Caron Butler and that’s a playoff team. So that once again brings the Lakers back into discussions. I have a headache thinking about it


  79. Some homer fans’ wishful thinking blinds them. The Bynum VS Howard debate should begin and end with the most important factor – health. As Marcellus Wiley of LA’s ESPN station repeats over and over, a player’s greatest ability is their availability. While Drew may potentially end up being the better overall player, D12 brings his talents to the court for almost every game a team has on their schedule. Drew’s health record does not inspire any confidence.

    Having said that, there’s no way we’re giving up Pau and Drew for D12. Our GM knows he doesn’t need to do that. Sometimes, doing nothing is the best course of action.


  80. Everyone remember… one thing the NBA said it didn’t like was Odom… since apparently they were looking to move him once they got him. The Lakers still have the piece the Rockets wanted to send all those good players to NO. We still have Gasol who is a top PF in the NBA. The NBA wants for ratings and for PR reasons to trade CP3 to LA. They cannot go down as the league that took all the power from a team and send a superstar to a specific team of their choosing. Now they can say they didn’t effect the parties involved. Don’t think for a second the Rockets are not involved. They still will be the third team involved. We were always most likely to get Howard and CP3.


  81. I am never one to care about what Laker is nice and what Laker is mean… I only care how they play basketball… but I feel the need to point out the obvious… Pau Gasol was the All World player traded to the Hornets… he was the guy who got Kobe those two post Shaq championships. Yet it was Lamar who was so devastated by the trade. Pau has been all class all the time. But I probably like him more just because he was the better player anyways.


  82. Well, Odom got to choose where he wanted to go if we can get the exact same deal with Houston involved, especially now that we can give more flexibility and more picks (Dallas’s).

    If this works out, Odom got to choose Dallas over New Orleans, and Cuban helped us get CP3.

    That would make my day.


  83. I want to subtract the comments I made above about Lamar and his “lack of character” in requesting a trade. I do not blame him and “character” is something I promised myself I would never bring up on a respected basketball site. Lamar is a sensitive person and player. He was the third best player on two championship teams as Bynum was not 100% for either. He felt he deserved “Derek Fisher” treatment. Unfortunately he ended up getting that exact treatment as he was traded for probably a meaningless draft selection. In all seriosness Lamar was a compassionate person in an in-compassionate world.


  84. The season is too near to be discussing major overhauls now. If it involved Bynum + 100 picks then book me, they might even convince me to send Walton and Fisher for Hedo.

    What you guys need to realize is that while it is Dwight Howard we are trying to trade for, we DO NOT NEED to trade Bynum AND Gasol to get him. I will love Dwight wherever he ends up but I will not sacrifice an all-star big and a coming all-star in Bynum.

    Do not count us out just yet. Drrayeye said it best, sometimes Less is More.


  85. Not to be overly optimistic but I like what I see:


  86. The Clippers are almost certain to get Paul, but basically, what they have to offer is Gordon and the pick. Olshey understands this, which is why he is holding out and trying to keep one or the other.

    Bledsoe and Aminu are middling prospects, unlikely to ever be more than rotation players and are 2 or so years away from that. NO’s roster is so bad that they will get burn there, but almost all lottery teams have guys of that level/type and they are in every draft. Kaman is not a bad player, but he is just there to match salary and is highly unlikely to be a Hornet in 12/13. Even if he does stay there, he is not a player of tremendous value. His plus is that his deal is short, but he makes 4M more per year than Odom does and Odom is guaranteed only 2.5M next year.

    One thing that is happening to the Lakers now is that the bill for all the excessive contracts to the role players
    –Walton, Blake, Fisher and to a lesser extent, MWP–as well as the bill for overpaying Kobe and Pau, is coming due. The Lakers have neither picks nor young players to offer, and they don’t have much flexibility to go get them.

    The team was originally built to play the Triangle under Brian Shaw with the same crew for another two years, but now Jimmy Buss, with Howard and Paul on the market at the same time, is trying to change everything at once–coach, system, culture, players–while also getting the “the next guy”. Hard to do, and the fallout has cost the team Odom, with management, Odom himself, and the league sharing the blame there (management deserves the most IMO–they made the call to trade Odom to Dallas).


  87. I’m actually quite happy with all the moves we made except the Odom to the Mavs trade. I do understand the need to cut salary but sending Odom to the team that swept us in the playoffs is as bad as it gets.

    Now, if that TPE is a part of a plan to nab someone else, then we all have to wait and see. Otherwise we just became weaker overnight.

    Signing Kapono and McRoberts is incredible, IMO. Kapono can shoot lights out and gives us a dimension that was lacking last year. McRoberts is a very competent big with fundamentals. Gerald Green can be an athletic spark off the bench, but I doubt he will see plenty of minutes.

    The questions is: what will happen with Luke and MWP? Does Luke retires and we get to amnesty someone else? Luke doesn’t retire, we use the amnesty on him and we’re forced to pay MWP all that money? What about Ebanks and Barnes, who also play that spot? We need to figure out what to do with those guys before concentrating on anything else…

    Regarding the Bynum for Howard trade, I’m on the camp that say no to that trade. Howard is not Shaq in his prime and the price for Howard is too steep. If it was a Bynum for Howard straight up trade, pull the trigger. Anything other than that will hinder our ability to compete for honours this season. But, now that we have McDaniels, if we could do a Gasol for Chris Paul trade I would be ok with it.

    I think Bynum would benefit from not having Gasol playing next to him and from playing with a true PG on both ends of the floor. Either way, considering the supporting cast available, I think we’ll do just fine with either Kobe-Gasol-Bynum or Paul-Kobe-Bynum. We just need to get a couple of bigs for the vets minimum and hope that Bynum doesn’t get injured again,


  88. @robinred

    Good points, especially about moving away from the triangle offense. It looked like the Kupchak’s plan was to get Paul and Howard, whom I’m assuming would provide younger, all-star talent and fit better into the new offense. I liked the plan even if I we would have to price for it later because it opened a new 2 – 3 window for championships. I’m not sure if only getting Howard will do that, especially if Orlando wants Bynum and Gasol.

    This year is a positioning year anyways, meaning it’s strike shortened without a full training camp and even a set roster. We’re putting in a new system under a new coach that’s probably very different from the old system.

    Yeah, Miami made it to the finals last year, but at least Spolestra had time before camp started to figure out how to best use his players and then they had a full season to work out the kinks.

    Right now, Orlando and NO/Stern have the leverage, but they won’t for long. Let’s make small moves (Odom wasn’t a small move, but there were extenuating circumstances) to give us flexibility and position us for next season.


  89. After trading LO to Dallas, the hunt for Howard and CP3 is getting farther and farther. We do not have the combination of pieces that will attract our bidders. Firstly on Paul, would they go straight for Gasol and new draftees, Stern will just veto anything coming from the Lakers; Secondly, Magic is getting aggressive with their salary cap space while Howard is not sure what he wants to do.;_ylt=AnbgPoHJpdZzwe3b5istVP.8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_dwight_howard_magic_nets_nba_121311

    If Lakers wait at the end of the season, Lakers will not be attractive because they are handicapped by salary caps. It was reported that Dallas is clearing some caps space too.

    Our best material is Bynum and Gasol that if they have a good season then Lakers assets will be attractive to Orlando and possibly NO if they still have the option of sign and trade. Other than those volatile situation, Lakers are losing a lot of options. It is Lakers vs. NBA league + Teams w/ low salary caps. Mitch has to do some Houdini hell of a job to get out as the winner. Lakers also need a lot of help and sacrifice from Paul and Howard to direct their destination i.e. if they want to inherit Kobe’s scepter.


  90. I guess with the Lake Show signing a total of three Jason’s now with a total outlay of peanuts the thing that I was afraid of is that Baby Buss will play games pretending to want to put a winning team on the flor when it is MONEY he wants to earn & the hell with winning teams…

    As for the group they have already signed, PLEASE don’t insult me by even pretending these guys belong on the floor with a championship team. These guys all of them belong if they are lucky in the D League.


  91. Having said that, maybe it would be best of Mitch kept dumping players for draft picks next year, then Kobe get mad & demands a team & then we trade him for at least 2 or 3 1st rounders below #5… If we are lucky Baby Buss will save tons of money & we will end up with a team in 2013 that is jammed gull of young, great talent…


  92. Marty @94

    Unfortunately – that Kobe plan could be the next “big move”.

    Kobe will not want to wait around for us to spiral.

    He may pull an LO and demand a trade. 3 hours later – gone.

    It is the next Buss and evidently the new Robo-Mitch who now gets his annual bonus based on the bottom line and not based on titles.