Welcome to a new series for FB&G for the 2016 off-season. This series will focus on team building and various paths the Lakers have open to them for the upcoming off-season. We will try to cover a variety of scenarios the Lakers could feasibly take and what moves might be involved with that specific approach. This installment will focus on trying to become a contender as quickly as possible.
The past few seasons have seen the Lakers deal with a variety of structural roster issues which have hindered their potential to compete. Whether it was the large amount of money committed to Kobe Bryant, their lack of young players who were ready to contribute to a highly competitive team, or their lack of secure draft picks, the team simply did not have the type of resources available to them to foster a winning team.
The Lakers were also intent on trying to chase big fish in free agency, but with limited capital to sign more than one “max” level player, they eventually struck out on every star they chased. Rather than panic spend on players a tier below, the team tried to roll over their cap space for future seasons while also taking chances on short term veterans who might help bolster the win column. Jeremy Lin, Carlos Boozer, Jordan Hill, Ed Davis, Roy Hibbert, etc all took turns as key rotation pieces.
These acquisitions did not hamper future spending potential nor did they lead to many wins. The result, then, was a bunch of losses which helped the Lakers keep their lottery picks and a boatload of cap space heading into a summer where the cap will go up by roughly $25 million.
As it stands the Lakers now have a roster with three first round picks (Russell, Randle, Nance), a 2nd round pick who has outperformed his draft slot (Clarkson), an incoming lottery pick (#2 overall), and upwards of $60 million in cap space to spend on free agents. In other words, the Lakers now have some tools to try and construct a roster which can make the suffering of the past three seasons a distant memory.
The question, of course, is how to best go about that. We have already discussed a slow and steady approach, but an alternative to that method is to go all-in on the idea of building a contender as quickly as possible. How would they go about executing such a plan?
I’m glad you asked…
1). Hold an auction for the #2 overall pick. Look, the Lakers may not end up trading this pick, but in a draft widely considered to have two “elite” level prospects, having one of the top two picks is a great place to be. Fielding calls from other teams who may want to exchange a high functioning player for a cost controlled lottery talent might be the best path back to quickly contending. I am not going to speculate on who might be available — that’s why you take calls and gauge interest — but if you can grab an all-star player for a draft pick, I would imagine that should be considered.
2). Trade one or more of the young core as well. In the same spirit as trading the draft pick, the Lakers now have some young assets who might have value to other teams. Strategically, the Lakers have two power forwards and two big, point/combo guards who are part of their core. In other words, there is a bit of redundancy. If a team has a strong interest in Julius Randle, why not see what they want? The same for Nance. If a team wants to swap a star player for Russell and Nance, shouldn’t you at least consider it? If the goal is to win more games next year and start to push the Lakers towards the playoff mix, the answer might be yes.
3). If you execute the types of trades listed above, chase the top free agents available with the carrot of coming to play with established veterans in Los Angeles for the Lakers. I have doubts Kevin Durant or Al Horford entertain the idea of playing in LA with the Lakers’ young core, but would they come to play with another all-star or two? That’s the calculus the Lakers are likely to consider and would be actively exploring via their network of sources within the player and agent community.
4). Spend the money now. While there’s an argument to be made for rolling over some of the cap space (maybe 10 million or so) to the next summer to ensure being able to chase a max level player in 2017, spending the majority of the cap space now means a stronger pitch to this year’s crop. By telling them “we can sign two max players — find a friend and come play for the Lakers”, the pot is sweetened and the team is more enticing. Multiple times Mitch Kupchak has lamented the team’s inability to make this type of pitch to FA’s in the past, but this season offers the perfect (and maybe only real) opportunity to do so.
**
This is not the path I would support, but I can understand the argument for it. As high as many people (including myself) are on the Lakers’ young talent, there are no guarantees they become as good as their respective ceilings suggest they can. Turning those players, if possible, into already high performing players who can provide the type of course correction everyone hopes for is worth exploring.
Further, the future brings even more unknowns. Will there be a lockout after the 2017 season? If so, what will a new CBA look like? We are already seeing how the current CBA seeks out parity, punishing big spending teams. These spending penalties limit how long teams can keep a viable core of “stars” together and still have room for the types of role players who prop open the windows of contending teams. In a way, the above path is as much about striking while the iron is hot and doing what is possible within the framework of the current rules before the goalposts are potentially moved again.
That said, I must repeat, I would not go this route. And for a variety of reasons.
One of my favorite parts of being a sports fan is watching the organic growth of the players — especially young players. Watching players come into their own and seeing the hard work pay off is tremendously rewarding for me. Seeing a player get to that point in a their career where the light bulb turns; where maturity (mental and physical) meets skill development…there’s few things better to me. To have the opportunity to do that with not one, but potentially 3 or 4 different players? Why would I want to give that up?
Also, despite an urgency to want to improve, more time to evaluate often means a more informed decision. Maybe trading one or more of the young players is the right move. I would argue, though, that we simply do not have enough information to make that call now. Letting more time pass allows for better evaluation, not only of the players, but of team needs and how the puzzle pieces fit together.
Still, though, I find it impossible to ignore that the path laid out above isn’t, at least somewhat, under consideration. Especially when we get quotes about “everything being on the table” from the team’s GM and with a self-imposed timeline for contention lurking in the background. If nothing else, it makes for an interesting debate and, potentially, an even more interesting summer.
John Citizen says
I am romantic about the Lakers, i dont want the NO2 to be traded, at all. Same with D Russ, JR, JC, LNance, i want to cheer for lakers players who got drafted and remain with the lakers. No more trying out players that never belong.
I am happy to wait.
Keen says
I agree
gamin 88 says
I agree also. I would keep the core unit. I wouldn’t trade my number two pick, in fact, I would push for the number one pick also and try to sign Jahlil Okaford. Then I would sign 3 good defenders such as Whiteside, Biyombo, and Ezeli. I want to see this group of guys develop. Rebuild and take thebslow approach, I think that these group of guys are talented.
tom rickard says
I’m hoping they take the slow approach, while I want to see the Lakers competitive, I’m willing to wait to watch the development, leaving the core intact and tweaking and adding as nessary, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with looking at Bender I can see were he actually make the rebuild go faster if he’s really as good as advertised, there are several SF’s available as FA while the 5’s are slim pickings.
rubenowski says
A good GM explores all options and we know Mitch is good and has even said in the past that he’s always open to discussions of this kind. It’s part of the job. But I agree with Darius in that it’s extremely rewarding to see young players grow and reach their potential. If one or more of Russel, Randle and our 2nd pick gets traded, I will be very disappointed. I mean, we suffered these last 3 years for what we have now. Don’t take this away from us so soon, you know?
barry_g says
More time to evaluate for the Lakers also means more time to evaluate for the other teams that may be interested in one of our young players. Some of our players may not come close to reaching their assumed potential, and the time to take those trade offers may be now. The skill comes with knowing when to buy/sell/hold. In Mitch I trust.
matt says
I hope they make no trade I’m getting tired of the revolving door the lakers have been over the last 5 years, how can we become fans of players on our favorite team if there is new players every year.
DieTryin' says
It is just good business to explore various possibilities and as result all options should be on the table. However, the likelihood of getting an offer compelling enough to trade the #2 and/or DAR or JR/JC is rather low. Our best approach is to continue to build thriugh the draft and allow our young guys to grow. After all it is still too early in the process to know what we really have. The most important thing is to begin to show some semblance of improvement. This will in the best of circumstances take time but it is much better than the swing for the fences approach we’ve seen over the last few years.
In addition to adding talent (most significantly through the #2 pick this year) the other factors that have prevented us from being effective in free agent discussions (namely, deteriorating win record each year, poor coaching, lack of FO vision and misguided pitches, incoherent schemes, etc) should be on the upswing now. Out of the pool of UFA’s available this summer there are only a few that I believe it makes sense to pay max contract $’s for AND thst we have a reasonable chance to attract. Durant & James are not coming here. Ditto Drummond. That leaves for me Whiteside and maybe Batum but hard to see him as a $20 mil/yr guy. And Barnes is simply not worth it. Capable role player but not a star.
On an unrelated note I hope we keep JC and that he really works on his defense this summer. But he’s def a Laker at heart. In a recent interview on 106 he was punked by a caller he knew who let him know that he got the tickets he wanted for a benefit of some kind. But that Nick Young had agreed to do a little dunk contest/exhibition thing at this event and would Jordan be willing to participate? JC asked so “Nick is going to do it?” “Yeah” the caller replied. JC: “I can do something” Caller: “Great, but there’s one more thing…since the Clippers were in the playoffs you and Nick would have to wear a Clippers jersey. Just as a sign of respect. I’ve got Chris Paul or Blake Griffin in your size. Which one do you want?” JC: “What?? Ah, hell no!”
Priceless. The whole interview is worth a listen as it gives a very good glimpse into what a good guy Jordan is.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hzv2trOCbA&feature=youtu.be
Todd says
I don’t think any true Lakers fan envisions winning anything for a few years — and I think folks are OK with that. Keep the pick, don’t break the bank this off season (unless KD says he wants in which is doubtful). Get a better read on what we have and hit free agency next summer or the summer after to fill in the holes.
I think the most prudent route is slow and steady — it’s not a sign of failure it’s a sign of emerging success. I don’t want the goal to be just trying to be competitive during the balance of this decade. I want the Lakers to totally dominate in the next decade.
Ovid Mercene says
I’ve always enjoyed my barbeque slow cooked. They taste a lot better and comes out really good. Rush them into a hot fire and they are raw inside and burned outside.
JeffT says
I vote for slow and steady. Remember that it took Kobe and Shaq 4 seasons to win a championship, and that at season 3, they won an adjusted 52 games and lost in round 2 of the playoffs. These things take time, even when you have a player as dominant as Shaq. Now we are talking about 19-20 year olds.
Joel says
Now is not the best time to try and jump-start a rebuild. The 2016 free agent pool is fairly mediocre for the most part, and as Darius noted we don’t know what will happen after next season with regards to the CBA. I also agree that we haven’t really had the chance to properly evaluate the young players given the circus of the last couple of years.
Baylor Fan says
Trying to jump start the rebuild is what the Lakers have been doing for three years. If they bring in a max contract player or two it will undermine Luke before he even gets started. The max contract players would have to be the focus of the offense to justify their salaries. Luke needs a chance to teach the young core players how to play his style of basketball. The Lakers need to find out what the existing players are capable of doing before they try to make a major free agent signing or trade.
Fern says
That OKC front line has been poisonous for the Dubs, so much for “small ball”. This confirms that a solid big front line trumps over a jump shooting team. I guess calling GS “historical” and his owner calling his team “light years”ahead of everybody else was a little bit premature. I wouldn’t doubt this OKC team rolls all the way to the championship. They are just white hot…
Fern says
I hope this OKC shellacking of GS specially down low make our FO and Luke realize that we need quality bigs in addition to shooters. Looks like the “Dynasty”is going to be a year long.I guess Chuck was right…
Laker4Life says
As far as rebuilding goes, the Lakers need to look no farther east than south Texas. The Spurs have developed their players slow and steady, keeping their core players intact and allowing their games to grow/develop. The result is years of competitive basketball whose success many other teams have tried to emulate. Luke may not be Greg P, but he has the potential to be great coach too.
Chearn says
I agree, Fern!
The Lakers should not be myopic in their quest for a position on the leader board. They didn’t get to the bottom of the barrel overnight (and no Kobe’s contract alone was not the basis for the organization’s descent) so finding daylight “The Morning After” isn’t readily achievable. Several years ago I mentioned that basketball fans no longer required the prominence of Los Angeles to make commercials and sell merchandise. In the age of technology, they can dwell in Minnesota (see Kevin Love), Oklahoma (see Westbrook and Durant), or display their acumen in Portland and still land national ad campaigns.
We are the Lakers as a selling point is trite to Millennials with ADHD. No, the Lakers have to build via the draft just like everyone else, after all, that was the intention of the new bargaining agreement. The new contract engenders an ebb and flows to the haves and the have-nots. No longer will one team remain viable by acquiring upper echelon players in the league. As we all know that was the Lakers, archetype in the past. Now they are forced to uhm rebuild like Charlotte and New Orleans.
Questions: If the Warriors lose the WCF to a team with a more traditional basketball lineup, will everyone’s love affair with the 3-point shot abate? Is the old axiom material once again: If you live by the three you die by the three?
Fern says
This is ugly that “historical” GS team is in such disarray that is stunning to watch. So their grand offensive plan is let Klay shoot and everyone else just watch, that’s Byron Scott level coaching. All the 50/50 balls are OKC and the paint is just imposible for this small ball jumpshooting team. OKC is basically the same team from last year that missed the playoffs because it was injury riddled. Could the Warriors made it to the Finals last year if OKC was healthy? Because they look like they have their number.
matt says
Harrison barnes must have thought he was gonna play himself into a better contract, then the one he turned down, but there is no way he’s getting a max deal
Also just learned that ezeli is a 53% free throw shooter
Chearn cavs also losing because of love of 3 pointers
Gene says
Keep the Young Players….You lose money WRT the Cap if you trade for an older player.Keep the money and the young players…Then spend on what you need….
bluehill says
OKC found something during the Spurs series and they continue to get better. Dont’ see Durant leaving even if GS stages a miraculous comeback. As for GS, I’m guessing they will be looking for some mobile big men, which means it will be more important to sign Ezeli than Barnes.
I don’t think this upset means that the 3 pt-based offense is dead, but rather OKC is showing the value of mobile big men that can guard multiple positions like Adams. Those players will be hard to find and will command top dollar. Guessing Biyombo is getting a big contract. Bender is going to look even more better now in the draft. Wonder what Philly is going to do with Okafor.
matt says
If i was westbrook i would be playing like this too, he got no props for the awesome season he had
Fern says
You have to have a balance, sorry but the only weapon the Warriors have downlow is Green and he is undersized and he loves to chuck 3s too, Bogut is a stiff.Ezeli is not all that either.Speights is another jumpshooting big. Ibaka and Adams length and defense completely shot down the paint and a smallball 3 point chucker team don’t have a prayer when the ball dont go in. Can’t grind out a game any other way unless is by shooting more 3s and since they are not going in and are being completely destroyed in the boards they have no chance in hell. Unless Curry miraculously recovers and he and Klay shoot 70% from three the rest of the series the Warriors are done. Their flaws are systemic and structural…
Berdj Rassam says
It’ll be interesting to see what the Lakers do with their high draft pick and new head coach. Some say that under this Buss, the Lakers will not win another ring. Time will tell.
Anonymous says
The slow and steady rebuild will be the plan IF Mitch can’t get a superstar like the one in Indiana.
The Lakers aren’t known for ling rebuilds, and have won many a title doing things their way and it’s unlikely they change their spots – especially in the final year of Jim’s deadline, unless they have no other choice. I’m not advocating this strategy. Just predicting it.
However, if they retain the #2 pick and grab just one or two effective FAs – I like Batum and Biyambo – then they may grow enough to satisfy the fanbase and the FO.
Warriors look stunned. Almost a classic throwback to the days when shooting 3-pointers wasn’t a good playoff strategy – not so long ago. Durant and Westbrook are both playing at peak levels – maybe for the first time ever. They’ll give Cleveland all they can handle.
Luke gonna be on his way south a bit earlier than expected.
DieTryin' says
Fern great points. Just finished watching tonight’s game…a game that looked exactly like Game 3. OKC is simply outplaying and out coaching GS. And Adams is a force of nature. He looks like a bouncer in a biker bar but I love his hustle and his heart.
I CALLED GAME says
Russell
DeRozan
Ingram
Randle
Whiteside
Clarkson
Williams
Hairston
Nance Jr
Byimbo
Huertas
J.Brown
A.Brown
Black
32nd pick
Fern says
Cleveland is having his issues with Toronto right now, so it’s not a given they are going to the Finals and if they do if OKC keep playing this way they won’t be stopped. KD and Westbrook are straight up lethal right now and that front line is just too much for anybody right now…
Shaun says
im really unsure of what we do this summer and i think a lot of teams will be in the same spot
does anyone really want to sign barnes,beal, even derozen to max money which is 21M per year for barnes and beal and 25m for derozen …. those are crazy numbers .. even guys like batum might get 20m per … which is dumb when none of them are really max guys and would be costing 23% of the cap
also, once our guys come off their rookie deals we also need to keep room to sign them ..like others i think it will take a few years for us to develop as the core ages but then again we need to hit the salary floor as does everyone else … there is just going to be some really stupid money being thrown around this summer
if anything i think we sign guys to 2-3 year deals max or even keep an opening to try and get take on a contract to get some picks
if we could take on a bad contract to get a pick in a position to draft thon maker it would be great since no FA signing will really help us in the next 2-3 years
in terms of FAs originally i was in for barnes and ezeli but they have played out of that idea for me and made me lean towards pulling an early okc team when they just got durant and westbrook … took a few years for them and a playoff exit by us to really get it
id prefer if we sign quality role players on short 2-3 year deals and overpay so that we can get a real star once they are available
Shaun says
gs misses david lee so much right now … last year no one was scoring in the paint or hustling. .. enter lee … only big to score and post up down low and roll to the rim … nah lets trade him for cap relief
Anonymous says
George would take the pick and a youngster. Then what? A thin roster forces you to spend cap space on vets. You’d end up with a star and expensive filler … Yeah that sounds like a good plan.
Slow and steady is the right path.
LKK says
OKC peaked at the right time this year. Their entire team is hot and hungry. It really feels like this is their time.
CHearn asks…
“Is the old axiom material once again: If you live by the three you die by the three?”
I think it is if a team doesn’t have the balance of an inside presence as well. Of course the caveat is that the Warriors’ style is probably good enough to beat 28 out of the other 29 teams in the league. OKC may be the only team in the league that can handle them. But one can argue with the approach of the Dubs in this game. Curry threw up a 30 footer 10 seconds into the game! And missed. Golden State has lapsed into hero ball all too often in this series.
That being said, I can’t give enough credit to OKC for their performance thus far in this series. KD and Westbrook are on a mission and are bringing their teammates along. Billy Donovan has made strong adjustments and pushed the right buttons throughout this run. As I said, this just feels like OKC’s time.
Tra says
The best approach is the Slow and Grow route. The hiring of Luke – who, as it currently looks, will be on the job a lot sooner than expected – allows for this. Our path back to success needs to be ran as a marathon and not a sprint. Select whomever is left between Simmons and Ingram and try to get a steal with the 32nd pick (personally, I would love to have Thon Maker fall into our laps, but I doubt this occurs). Go hard after Whiteside, hope to get lucky and pry him away from Riles and let the path begin from there.
In regards to this OKC – GS series, I know that there has to be a feeling from within the organization and among the players that if it weren’t for injuries over the last few years to Westbrook, Ibaka and Durant, they would have been the representatives of the Western Conference in the NBA Finals. They look to be the best team left among the remaining four.
Craig W. says
You can’t talk about 2016/7 value as if it is the same as 2015/6 value. The salary cap rises substantially in 2016/7. That means the value equation also changes. Players you wouldn’t pay $15M for in 2015/6, you will have to pay $20M+ for in 2016/7. Get used to it. You will be paying more for the same value – period.
The reason for not paying a player more is because they don’t bring added value to your team. If they bring value, they will cost more. We need a starting center in the worst way next year and we won’t get anything in the draft. Therefore, we will have to pay more for a center on the open market. Now let’s discuss who that person might be and whether we should sign them to a contract with a player option next year. If we keep Black and draft a center in the 2nd round, we may only want another player for next year.
Evan says
Trade the #2 pick, #32 pick,Nick Young, sign+trade Clarkson to Chi for Jimmy Butler then you sign Whiteside & Barnes and we off and running! Get a shooter with the mid level exception and you have a young athletic team that can grow together:
Russell/Lou/Huertas
Butler/Free Agent
Barnes/Brown
Randle/Nance Jr
Whiteside/Black/Sacre
Hannibal Chisum says
That’s ridiculous!
A Horse with no name says
Okay guys, everybody’s getting the significance of Adams and Biyombo in these playoffs. The center position is far from dead. Bigs who can move their feet, show and recover, and block shots are going to be in vogue. Apparently I’m not the only one wanting Biyombo now. (And the lakers are in a great place to get him.). What’s interesting though, is one of the “requirements” for the pace and space 5 is that they should space the floor by being able to hit outside jumpers. Adams and Biyombo don’t do that; instead their offensive efforts are about setting screens, attacking the glass to put back misses, get rebounds and simply keeping balls alive for their teammates to nab. We actually have a rough prototype in Tarik Black, who like Biyombo is about 6’9″ with a 7’3″ wingspan (Biyombo wings are 7’4″). I have to believe that Black can become an effective center with superior coaching and player development. That’s one five man on the roster. We shall see who else is drafted or signed….
A couple of post scripts :
Julius Randle is not nor will be a Draymond Green type 5. Size matters. No matter the heart and fight, undersized centers get exposed. Green’s dirty play on Adams had a lot to do with his mounting frustrations in battling the much bigger but equally tough Adams. Now Green has lost something that’s hard to get back; the respect of his peers and fans everywhere. It’s affecting his play.
Watching Durant block and alter shots with his ridiculous length has me very excited for Ingram’s defensive potential. Ther’s some good tape of Ingram looking very Durant like defensively .
matt says
I think the steal of the draft will be chiek diallo
If you can get both whiteside and derozan that would be a major success
I CALLED GAME says
DeRozan is actually worth max money, Paul George got max money and DeRozan is statistically better then him so yeah DeRozan should get a max from the Lakers
R says
Well there’s also footage of Ingram looking lost on defense. But I hear he can defend and he is really young and of course is very long … By the way, any chance Bender goes at #2? I’ve never seen him play.
Davis Luv says
Cant wait to see the ratings of a OKC/TOR final…
Chearn says
Matt, in the next game the Cavs, will revert to a pick and roll offense and once again dominate Toronto. At this juncture in his career, Lebron can no longer play entire halves of basketball and carry a team which is why he joined a youthful team.
I’ve clocked Thon Maker since I first saw him play in the 8th grade. He’s improved each year since that time. If the Lakers could trade some fodder plus cash to move up in the draft to get him they should do so. Let’s not forget that Matur and Makur Maker are on the rise in the college prep circuit. I haven’t seen either player in a game but when it comes to siblings or relatives as it relates to sports either the first players in the family are the most talented or those that come after them have the potential to reach the pinnacle of the sport. The league is replete with examples, Stephan and Seth Curry, Harvey and Horace Grant, Bernard and Albert King, Zoran and Goran Dragic, and Dominique and Gerald Wilkins. The decision makers have to think and plan with the near and long term horizon in mind. Now I’m not suggesting that that hasn’t been the case in the past, but it should be the model for the future.
Hannibal Chisum says
Love Thun Maker, but don’t think the lakers have the balls to chose him!
Anonymous says
Evan, have you been drinking?
Butler misses 17 games a year. Not good.
Whiteside is a head case. Not good.
Barnes had a 12 PER this year. Not good.
TempleOfJamesWorthy says
I think an accelerated path to contention CAN work, but the only examples I can think of in recent basketball history are the 1999 Spurs (who got the best PF of the past 20 years to go with David Robinson) and the 2008 Celtics (putting Garnett, Pierce, and Allen together near their primes).
So if Durant, Whitside, and Bradley Beal all want to come to the Lakers this summer, do it.
But the combinations of 3 non-overlapping superstar or near-superstar talents available in the 2016 free agent pool is quite small. Meanwhile, the surest way to limit a team’s potential is to pay near-max money for nowhere-near-max production (cf, Bryant, Kobe – 2014-2016).
In my lifetime, I’ve seen many teams in multiple sports make the same mistake: overpaying for less-than-top talent because those middling players were the best AVAILABLE, not the best in the sport. If the NBA had some weird contract clustering such that Kyle Singler was the best free agent available, should a team pay him the NBA max? Of course not! But that’s essentially what many teams do.
IF the Lakers were one or two key players from championship contention, then it might make sense to overpay a free agent somewhat. But they are YEARS away from being even a top-4 playoff seed, so if the Lakers end up keeping their cap space and potentially leveraging it into additional assets (e.g. picking up draft picks for helping to facilitate capped team’s deals), that’s better than paying Kent Bazemore and Harrison Barnes much more than they’re worth in absolute terms just to win an extra 5 games this year.
Juggernaut584 says
Don’t forget Miami’s big 3 back in the summer of 2010
Hale says
No matter what style of basketball that’s en vogue, it’s hard to repeat as champs. Duncan hasn’t. James hasn’t. No team has done it since the Lakers made the dirty Leprechauns cry green in their beer.
Juggernaut584 says
James won back to back against OKC & spurs 2012-2013
Renato Afonso says
Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but, apart from special players like Lebron and that Curry/Klay/Green combo, you still need big men inside to win it all. The players who are becoming “extinct” are the wing players without outside shooting ability, or the DeRozan’s of this world. And even them, can find a place if their defensive chops are good enough.
Regarding the Lakers approach, talent trumps all. If the FO believes that a player (it may be Paul George or Jimmy Butler or Santa’s favorite elf) has more talent now than one of our young players will ever have, then the trade should be made and the rebuild process must be sped up. And that’s the most difficult part of the FO’s job: judging the young players’ real ceiling.For now, the only young player that seems to be more or less close to his ceiling is Jordan Clarkson, so trading him before the trade deadline is fine, as long as there is more talent getting in than leaving. Russell, Randle, Nance, Black and Brown are still question marks for us all. Williams and Young are known commodities and there’s no problem in trading them for a movie ticket and a bucket of popcorn.
People need to remember what the Celtics did in ’08. Granted that McHale gift wrapped Garnett to the Ainge but they had less talent than we have right now and made the moves to become an instant contender. They had Paul Pierce at the end of his prime, Tony Allen, Rondo and Perkins plus a couple of draft picks (although none as good as the Lakers’ #2 this year). They manage to open a three year window due to Allen’s and Garnett’s age and went to two Finals against the Lakers, winning one of them.
As Darius states, there are plenty of ways to get to the top. This one just has more risk than the slow build.
PS: I agree that if the Lakers become a revolving door of players it becomes harder to be a fan. But Luke has a 5 year contract and Mitch apparently is not trading the pick. Odds are that we will see at least three of the young players develop together and that’s always nice.
Busboys4me says
PG (Paul George) is the only max player I see as viable and trading two of ours including the pick isn’t worth it. Now that KD is going to the Finals he’s not coming. LaBrawn was never coming without Melo, DWade and CP3. Soooo lets just keep what we have and go from there.
The only trade I would consider is Randle if we end up with Simmons because Simmons is more of a point forward who has to drive. Neither plays great D. Randle is redundant and less talented. Plus he mopes and wouldn’t come off the bench. I’m not a big fan of his. I don’t consider him a team player, plus I don’t like his effort. He doesn’t seem to give full effort all of the time especially on defense.
Busboys4me says
We SHOULD NOT trade our pick this year. We will not get a first round pick for the next two years. If we finish outside of the top three next year Philly gets that pick and then Orlando automatically gets our number one in 2018.
Warren Wee Lim says
I would recommend the dual approach. Not pure slow and grow, but not all-in spend out, trade-out as well. A little bit of both would be the way to go.
The FO needs to explore which scoring+defensive wing is available. #2 would be our top commodity, next is Russell. For me, only 1 can go. I would prefer Russell stays and we use #2 and some contracts to Chicago maybe.
Craig W. says
Busboys4me,
The CBA prevents us from trading two consecutive 1st round picks – the Ted Siepen rule. Consequently we cannot lose both our next 1st round picks. I forget whether we lose 2017 and 2019, or (because we kept our pick this year) Orlando gets our next two 2nd round picks (2017 & 2018).
Richard Sanchez says
The more I hear about Bendor
Josh Hardin says
I would say a mixture of both but I would not make a trade for anyone unless it was say PG13 for the pick and anyone but Russell. We should really make a push for either Whiteside (who I prefer)or Horford (who probably won’t leave ATL) and just build that way. I like Derozan and Beal but his inefficient shooting bothers me and Beal misses too many games. No one else out there is worth the type of money they will command. We should focus on filling our bench with high quality defensive players on 2-3 year deals so we can re-up after we evaluate both our young core and the said bench players. Last word, is everyone else as sad as me about Drummond being a RFA… Get that poor man out of Detroit and SVG who we all know is trying to replicate his Dwight and Magic days.
Josh Hardin says
On the Bender side of things I really hope we don’t take Bender based on that we “maybe” should have taken Porzingis. Bender had end of the bench numbers overseas and is nothing like the Zinger. Take Ingram ( or Simmons) and be happy. This isn’t complicated.
macster says
Not no, but hell no!
M~
Alex says
Mitch just about said it would take a ridiculous offer to part with the #2. One or two handfuls of players? Here’s my list: Lebron/Curry/KD/AD/Leonard/RWestb/KAT/Simmons.
As someone pointed out a few days ago, as in any negotiation, relative positions matter. For a good trade you need an asymmetrically better position. If a star player wants out, that’s an opportunity to get superior value. The other party may find more value in a high draft pick for its star player than simply getting non-star players back. But there is no such situation in the NBA this year. The other is if you know one of your assets is higher valued than you know. Beware of anyone who is selling their star cheap for no obvious reason. Barring those two advantages, you are bidding on a star player the other team wants to keep – so you have to overpay to get him. In a depleted asset situation we are in now, this would tilt it worse. For if you traded all our picks and maxed our cap room, you’d still not be fielding a championship contender and will have no upside left for years.
Anonymous says
What is the fascination with Jimmy Butler? Yes, he puts up nice numbers — when he’s healthy. He’s missed an average of 17 games a year over the last three years. It makes no sense to me to pay a steep price to acquire him when even at a young age (27) he’s missing 20% of his team’s games each season.
Anonymous says
Mitch went overseas to see Bender workout and play in person. However, I don’t see the Lakers taking him at #2. What would be interesting is if Mitch tried to trade a piece to get him at #3. The Celtics are supposedly enamored with one of our youngsters. Where there’s smoke…
Alex says
I retract what I said about Barnes. Maybe useful player to Luke, but he doesn’t look worth a $20M slot. We will still have to overpay someone, so echoing others, I’d rather do so for a young big, and Biyombo is playing himself to the front of that list. We are also replete of veteran leadership. I would love to see us add a quality big like Pau or Noah and a versatile forward like Batum.
At #32, best player available. Thon Maker won’t be there and it won’t matter. Our world-class scouting stuff will do better than our youtube-informed guesses.
We also have a couple of low value assets in Nick and Lou. Nick is near untradable, so after some trying, I expect him to be amnestied. I wonder if Lou can bring us a better fitting player for our needs, or at least a 2017-expiring contract, or both. Would Phil gift us Affalo for Lou? Or NO Tyreke Evans, coming off surgery, final contract year?
rr says
Butler is an extremely effective two-way wing, and he is in his prime. Also, he might (or might not) do better in terms of health with a guy who manages minutes more cautiously than Tom Genghis Khan Thibodeau does (although he did miss time with Hoiberg as well).
That noted, like I said last week, I am in agreement with those who want to take it slow. The Lakers should be willing to spend on a 5, be it Biyombo, Ezeli, or Whiteside, and then I would roll with the young guys and a couple of new youngish rotation guys who can D up a little. You have to play the game board in front of you. If say, the Lakers were picking #1 and a guy like Shaq or David Robinson were in the draft, and say, Paul George were a UFA and his camp was leaking stuff about his wanting to come home to LA, then yeah: try for the quick reboot.
But as it is, especially with Toronto and OKC making playoff runs, I think the simple way of signing a 5 and playing the young guys is the best and most obvious approach.
Josh Hardin says
Completely agree on Butler. Yeah he’s a good two way player but he misses games and at 27 is still slightly young but too old for this team but I’d rather just get a big with cash and role with our young guys growing with him. The only guy I’d trade for is PG and that’s only if he were available which I doubt he is and doubt he will be.
Gary says
Mitch went overseas to see Bender workout and play in person. However, I don’t see the Lakers taking him at #2. What would be interesting is if Mitch tried to trade a piece to get him at #3.
___
So you’re saying that there’s a chance that the Lakers could have a forward duo of Ingram/Bender or Simmons/Bender?
That would seal the deal on slow and steady but as we’ve seen height, length and quickness are the Warrior’s Kryptonite. Also, if you’re envisioning the Thunder going on a sustained Western Conference run then either of those forward duos would help counter the Thunder’s front line. Especially if the Lakers could eventually add an active center to the mix.
Something to think about.
Josh Hardin says
Bender would be real slow and steady. Dude is raw as can be and I’m a patient Laker fan but not that patient. Just role with Ingram and sign a center like Whiteside or Horford. I really think we can take Whiteside even if Miami can clear the Bosh money to make room. I would offer Whiteside at 12:01 when FA starts no questions asked. Here’s the contract, max with whatever else. You want one of Mitch’s old championship rings? Done! You want a lifetime in and out coupon? Done! IDGAF
matt says
After seeing ezeli last night I’m convinced he’s not the way to go, okc resorting to hack an shaq on ezeli, warriors had to take him. He’s a good back up, but unless he’s scoring like dwight howard he can’t beva starter.
Kevin says
Bender would be the icing on the Simmons or Ingram cake. I don’t see them giving up the #2 pick for Bender. They’d trade into it because even if Bender is 2 years away from being the next Porzingis it means he’s 2 years away from really contributing. Simmons or Ingram will be starting year 1.
With that being said an Ingram/Bender/Clarkson/Russell lineup sounds like Showtime lite to me. It’s certainly something I’d wait two years to see.
JeffT says
With the continuing NBA trend of “copying what works”, I see the draft stock of Ingram going up with the success of OKC. As the Warriors continue to have trouble with Durant’s tall jump-shooting style, Ingram certainly looks to fit the same mold. I wouldn’t be surprised if we start hearing that Philly is leaning towards Ingram now because of this series.
A Horse With No Name says
Jeff @ 10:37: Please don’t articulate my deepest fears! (But then, maybe Simmons . . . .)
Renato@ 2:37: Nicely laid out post, well reasoned.
rr @ 9:26: Solid.
changes says
Trading a #2 is bad idea. That #2 will be cheap, incredibly cheap in 2016 where average players will exceed the #2 in salary for years to come.
Put it out of your mind.
This leads to all that cap space. They have to spend 90% per CBA rules so I’d advocate going all out for 1 Max deal, likely to be over $25 mil/year then use the rest up to that 90% level on 1 year deals for the second unit to the extent possible. Get a center like Whiteside for that max deal.
Otherwise play 2016 with the core plus draft picks and keep that cap space open for 2017. Maybe the young ones flame out and it becomes trade time and 2017 does have some huge FA opportunities.
Laker Fan Since 1959 says
Lakers need a center I like Whiteside Biyombo Sacre we keep Black for small ball. The Lakers usually acquire a free agent big in FA . A little History would be Wilt Kareem Shaq
As far as the trading the rookies or second year players they had to make a decision to trade Kobe or Eddie Jones
I do not want to wait 6 to 10 years for another championship. Mitch and Jim need to do their homework and burn the midnight oil. We need a team of players who can play on both ends of the court. When making a trade make sure to get equL or higher value.
matt says
Yeah trading #2 would be disastrous in any scenario, ingram looks to be special.
Also can anyone explain why whiteside is considered a head case, and how do we know it’s not smoke and mirror stuff. What has whiteside done that is so concerning?
matt says
Horse
Great take on tarik black, a new coach might increase his play, he’s not much of a shot blocker though.
Biyombo needs to be evaluated, he’s young and moves well, but to say he’s the best guy out there because of this playoff series where he matches up well is premature, he did have a good season as a backup, but how will he match up against guys like, cousins, towns, gasol, d.jordan, we gotta remember this is the west.
Alot of these top free agents this year are from the east, where stats become inflated due to less competition.
Kevin says
I don’t think Whiteside is a headcase its just that he is not a great passer, has an inconsistent mid range jumper, and he can’t dribble. He is at times quite disappointing on the defensive end when stopping players 1 on 1. He sometimes steals rebounds from teammates and is a very stats-concerned player.
I think the Lakers have to look hard at fit. Randle is limited at the Four. Having Whitside to back him up makes up for his defensive lapses is a good thing. However, pairing Whiteside and Randle gives you two players without range. If you add in Simmons you then have your entire front court that can’t shoot consistently from the outside. That’s a problem in this NBA where I see the number of Three point attempts league wide going up not down.
There’s a limit to how many times you can trade scoring two points and giving up three in a game before it makes it impossible to win. The Lakers have to have a decent three point shooters or their ability to stay in games will be compromised.
If, as Anon mentions above, the Lakers draft Ingram trade for Bender then Whiteside is a perfect fit because the lane wouldn’t so congested with other limited range offensive players and their defensive counterparts.
Craig W. says
Given the 2016/17 spending requirement, I don’t see why we would amnesty Young unless he is detrimental to the locker room. Mitch knows more about that than I do.
Lou is a veteran on a team in need of veterans. I see absolutely no way we let him go, unless there is a really good trade that depends on including him.
rr says
Young can’t be amnestied; that only applied to guys like Metta who signed their deals under the old CBA. Perhaps the poster meant the stretch provision should be used on Young.
Also, again, there is no serious penalty for not meeting the salary floor, and IIRC DS posted some information to the effect that many teams may not reach the floor this year with the increase in the cap.
Buck Foston says
Teams not meeting the cap-floor are just required to pay the difference to the current players on their roster. There isn’t a penalty or anything.
rr says
Buck Foston May 25, 2016 at 2:40 pm
I approve this handle.
Hale says
Jugger, thanks for the correction.
Buck Foston forever!
Clay Bertrand says
Swaggy can either be traded, remain with us at $5.44M and $5.67M (player option) for the next one/two yrs, or he could be waived using the stretch provision. In the stretch case, he would be waived and his salary hit against the cap would be “stretched” over the life of his remaining deal plus one year which means stretched AND AVERAGED over 3 years. There would be a “Dead Money” cap hit of $3,704,195 per year over the next 3 years.
Obviously, a trade needs so many variables to work (namely at least one interested party) that it is probably the least likely of the three scenarios albeit the most desirable (assuming the return is more favorable–BIG assumption to make).
We could do well to keep Lou around but he surely could be moved in a beneficial trade. With the cap jump, $7 mil a year for 6th man of the year one season removed is pretty good value. He needs to be better integrated into the team strategy to maximize his scoring and minimize his defensive disinterest but, he IS a Vet and he can score and carry a second unit if needed at times. Byron misused him IMO.
PS: Buck Foston is very stout!!!! BUCK them Buckin Massholes!!!!!
R says
rr: “Young can’t be amnestied; that only applied to guys like Metta who signed their deals under the old CBA. Perhaps the poster meant the stretch provision should be used on Young.”
I’m all for stretching Nick Young. The Tower of London has equipment specifically for that purpose.
KevTheBold says
Take the well worn and true road, as so called shortcuts to championships, are in vast majority mirages that lead to a much longer treks, then to dead ends.
Max free agents are for the most part, fools gold that failed where they were, and will fail where they go.
It’s like paying new car prices for a salvaged title car, or buying a failed business plan, just because you aren’t sure your current business will pan out.
With regards to the Warriors woes,.. they now know how difficult it is to repeat, and also, how it’s not always smart to run your team ragged in the regular season chasing a record which in the end is meaningless, without a championship to go with it.
If they don’t miraculously pull out of this dive before hitting the ground, I wonder how this revelation will affect Walton’s plan to import the Warrior’s offensive scheme to LA?
I for one am glad we have the chance to learn from this lesson, and I suppose Walton will adapt his game plan as well.
Anonymous says
Widely reported today that Joakim Noah is looking for greener pastures. Decent off season target if you ask me. Good hustle. Good heart. Does not back down. Just the type of hard-nosed guy that could influence our young team.
Craig W. says
He used to have good athleticism, but what is he now? We don’t need someone who can’t cover pick-n-roll.
Sald0gg says
A lot of players are gonna get overpaid this summer, the key to me is getting the guys who are only overpaid a little. KD and Bron are staying put. Dwight is a big NO. Beal, Batum, Barnes, Anderson are all looking at close to $20M. TERRIBLE values. DeRozan isn’t a $25M player, but he IS a $20M player, so the extra $5M to get a multi-time all-star who took 1,000 shots the night before game 4 is someone I’d roll with. Same for Whiteside. He isn’t a headcase. He’s caused no real problems. He’s a rim protector who made a big leap in the 2nd half. I don’t see him as a guy who will get a contract and stop blocking shots and setting screens. He can cover up for a lot of Randle/Russell/Clarkson’s defensive mistakes. 4 blocks per game is 8 points off the board. I like Biyombo or Ezeli as a $10M backup C, or in a pinch, starters but Whiteside at $21M is a coup (I would make year 4 a team option). Start with those 2, then grab a 3 and D wing to back up Ingram. Stretch Nick and look for a trade for Lou. Bring Clarkson back for 4 years at $40ish Million to be the 6th Man. Bring back Tarik and grab Thon or a project big at 32.
Russell 34 Mins./Clarkson 14 Mins.
DeRozan 36 Mins./Clarkson 12 Mins.
Ingram 32 Mins./3&D FA 16 Mins.
Randle 33 Mins./Nance 15 Mins.
Whiteside 33 Mins./Backup Big 15 Mins.
That’s the kind of team that could sneak in with Houston & Dallas slipping, or at worst make a jump to 35-40 wins.
Clay Bertrand says
Geez these playoffs are boring……the final four teams basically taking turns blowing each other out by 30!?!!?!!!??!?!!?!???!?!? This is worse than early round Olympic basketball games for the Dream Team. At least in Globetrotter games they have clowny gags and ridiculous trickery.
This is worse than a D-League…….HELL its worse than a SUMMER LEAGUE game!!!!!
Mid-Wilshire says
DeRozan will not be leaving Toronto. Why leave a team in the Conference Finals to come to a team that might — in a stretch — win 30 games next season? Won’t happen.
Harrison Barnes will not be leaving Golden State. See note on DeRozan above.
Also, we must be wary of Joakim Noah (who, at one time, I was very fond of). In the last two years he has played 67 and 29 games, respectively. That means he’s missed 68 games in two years. And he’ll turn 32 in February. Sorry to say, he could be reaching the end.
I recommend focusing on Hassan Whiteside (with Bismack Biyombo as a Plan B) for the center position. Then, we can bring in a 2nd tier SF Free Agent such as Solomon Hill to play solid defense and share playing time with Ingram / Simmons at the 3.
A player such as A.J. Hammons (a mobile center from Purdue who can shoot from range and rebound) might be a good draft pick at the 32 pick.
The other players — Randle, Russell, Clarkson, Nance, Black, Anthony Brown, Lou Williams, and Huertas — can all be retained. That will provide us with a minimal amount of churn, enhance our core’s familiarity with one another, enable Luke Walton to make his own evaluation of our young players, and save our money for next year’s FA class which will be vastly superior to this year’s.
It’s a conservative plan with few disruptions. But with a #2 draft pick, a new coach, and 2 or 3 FAs coming on to the team, there’ll be plenty of changes to absorb.
Meanwhile, our core will continue to play together and become more and more familiar with each other’s games.
Isn’t that how championship teams are built?
Robert says
Clay: “Swaggy can either be traded, remain with us at $5.44M and $5.67M (player option) for the next one/two yrs, or he could be waived using the stretch provision.” As you state – the trade is highly unlikely unless we ship a pick or take an undesirable in return. So – No. Keeping him is highly undesirable as well. So we “stretch” out our hand and “Waive” good-bye. Lou needs to go as well. Both of these guys stunt the growth of others.
Robert says
Come to think of it – why use the stretch? Just eat the whole thing now while we are flush with cap space.
Fern says
Yeah Clay is been boring 30 point blowouts galore.
Fern says
@Mid i been all in for that approach for the longest time. We need to stay the hell away from guys like Noah and Hortford. I would be perfectly happy with Whiteside or Bismark. With Simmons/ Ingram at the 3 ( preferably Ingram) and some investments to strenghten the bench. The Lakers can potentially be a up and coming team. We can’t blow that cap load this summer. We can improve the team quite a bit this summer. DAR,JC, Simmons/Ingram, Randle and Whiteside/Biyombo is a pretty intriguing and interesting proposition. Great minds think alike huh? lol
matt says
Mosgov actually played
rr says
Isn’t that how championship teams are built?
—
Sometimes, but championship teams are really built out of great and good players coached by great/good coaches. Looking at the four teams left in playoffs, three of them were built what might be termed “organically” but the other was built around winning the lottery three times and LeBron James’ fondness for Northern Ohio. Other recent champions–Boston 08, Dallas 11, Miami 12/13–did not follow a pattern of having several young guys all grow into leading a contending team as a group over a period of years, and neither, really, did the 09/10 Lakers.
So, riffing off what I said above, I don’t support the slow-n-steady approach because I think it is some master blueprint or because if you squint hard you may be able to see Golden State five years ago in the Lakers’ young guys. I support it because in my opinion that is what the game board as of now dictates doing. The Lakers won 17 games last year; it would be virtually impossible to go from that to 55 wins in a year barring a personnel miracle of sorts, and guys among the 5-10 best players in the league, for one reason or another, are not really available to the Lakers right now.
Those things being the case, I support, as noted, getting a center, rolling with the young guys, adding a couple of D-oriented rotation guys in their 20s, getting rid of Young and Williams, and rolling over a lot of the cap room for 2017. But whether that will actually work will depend on how good the young guys actually are and whether Walton is as skilled a coach as we all hope he will be.
A Horse with no name says
It boggles my mind that any poster here would still be clamoring for a DeRozan signing. I mean, are you watching the games? Poor handle, poor passer, can’t shoot from distance, average defender. Let’s hang on to the 20 million, and sign 23 year old Evan Fournier, who fits our new offense with excellent passing and good three point shooting. My guess ( and that’s all it is) is 12-15 mil per year is enough to pry him away from Orlando.
Chibi says
At 23 Biyombo is the youngest unrestricted, non-booty free agent. Next is Derozan at 26, and Batum is only 27.
Craig W. says
I guess i can’t support getting rid of Williams – unless we can get something back. He does provide veteran guidance and presence on a team that sorely needs that. There may be reason to ‘dump’ Young, but not Williams. It isn’t that I think he is an answer for any particular situation, but we do need vets who know the situation here and I don’t believe in churning the personnel just to get new people in who might show us something. We did a lot of that the last two years and wound up setting up rotation players for other teams.
Fern says
I don’t get this “getting rid of Lou Will because he stunt the growth of others” that’s ridiculous, Nick Young? stretch his contract that’s a no-brainer for me. But even the youngest team in the league need veterans. What the Lakers gonna do? jettison everyone over 25?Smh. Lou veteran presence coming off the bench could help inmensely. Who he is gonna stunt? He is a perfect option coming off the bench with Huertas who i hope we retain too. Like Mitch said, you can’t have too many rookies/ very young players in a team. there have to be some balance.
Fern says
Lou earns 7 million per season a pretty cost efective contract and after next season he is an expiring contract, so we might be better off riding that contract because that’s capspace and an asset after next season. People need to look beyond this summer and the next…
matt says
I recall d’angelo russell had his best games when lou williams was hurt
Kbj says
The only guidance or leadership Lou Williams will give the young guys is how not to play defense and when to jack up shots. That’s not the type of “veteran presence” that I want around the kids.
rr says
When the FO signed Williams last year, I wrote a lengthy post trying to look at the plusses and minuses, finally landing on the negative side—I wouldn’t have signed him. The caveat was that he has enough value that he might have fetched a late 1st rounder.
I haven’t changed my mind. Williams is good at what he does; even playing with a terrible team last year, he got his usual numbers. Williams is actually a Byron-type player: old-school bench scorer who could play in any era, veteran, plays his game no matter what is going on around him or who the coach is.
The problem is that what Williams does is not what the Lakers needed last year or need now. He is an undersized combo guard entering his age-30 season, high-usage, makes 6.7M, not very good on D. What the Lakers need behind Clarkson and Russell are low-usage guys who can play a little defense and spread the floor and make less money—every dollar will matter whenever this big FA coup occurs. Williams actually is a pretty good spot-up shooter, but he is most comfortable with the ball in his hands, and he should be playing on a veteran team that
a) Can actually make the playoffs
b) Needs scoring off the bench
So, I think the FO should try to move him.
Altemawa says
the FA market this year is not good. aside from KD and LBJ, there’s no one who will instantly move us into the playoffs. Lebron is not coming here, he will stay in the East even if he wants to leave Cavs. And with the way OKC is playing, its hard to imagine Durant leaving OKC, now that they are 1 win or 1 star player away from Finals. I thought we can lure Durant in Lakers because KD loves Kobe a lot, but I am thinking now that we have low low chance on getting him.
Then there’s DeRozan from Raptors, who’s also on the same position like Durant, achieving and recognizing that in the East, there’s only Cavs that they need to compete with in the coming years. I personally think he can really become a Superstar in this league.
So we’re stuck in rebuilding via Draft, and filling in role players/vets who will guide our youngsters into stardom. Its not bad, its actually thrilling to be in our position, slowly but surely building a contender.
I am not shutting down the possibility that with our GM and FO, they can come up with a very clever trade to maximize our talent, if they really want to contend starting next year.
We have less room for mistake whether we build via draft or go trade our young core to a proven star.
it really is a good time to be a Laker fan.
(and I hope Kobe will be there to give pointers to our young players on how to achieve something thru hardwork and dedication).
Mid-Wilshire says
Count me among those who feel that we should hang on to Lou Williams (Huertas, too) for another year.
It’s not that I’m unaware of his limitations as a player — he needs the ball in his hands, he’s a high-volume shooter, he doesn’t play great D, etc., etc. I know all of these things. It so happens that these same characteristics describe Jamal Crawford. And I know of very few Clippers fans who want to ship him out. (Crawford is much older, too.)
Instead, I see Lou playing an important — if limited — role on this team, that of a designated scorer off the bench. With Kobe retired and Nick Young potentially being waived / stretched / bought-out, the Lakers will need someone on the 2nd unit who can put the ball in the hoop.
The Lakers had that, at one time, with Bob McAdoo. The Pistons had that with Vinnie Johnson. The Clips, as I mentioned, have that with Crawford. None of them played D. And they all needed the ball in their hands. But they all played an important, if limited, role.
With a new head coach, I think that Lou’s minutes could be very carefully contained (which was not the case under Byron) and his role very carefully defined.
Also, I think that you can over-churn a team. You can actually have too much turnover year-to-year which can be confusing and disconcerting to players, especially when they’re young.
I fully expect the Lakers to hold onto Lou W. and focus their upgrade on the SF and Center positions. That, in itself, would be enough change to absorb in one season.
Shaun says
Lou is terrible but if we could package him and #32 to move up in the 1st round it could be worth it to try and draft Thon Maker – guy just chucks the ball and never passes on offense, hes a blackhole that wont mesh with our new system
I’d rather pick up guys like David Lee, Jason Thompson, jeff green, mahimi, jerebko, jordan hill, matt barnes, ty lawson, mozgov, nene, gerald green, Noah, budinger – who might be undervalued in Free Agency and try and get them to outperform their contract rather than sign someone like biyombo who is having a good few games to a bloated 17M per contract that carries a high risk that they wont live up to it.
If we could sign someone like lawson who was a max guy just a year ago to a reasonable contract, even near 10M per that would be a win, jerebko or jordan to a 5-7M per year = win, mozgov to a 10M per year = win – some of these guys might even have more interest in coming to us on a shorted deal to play up thier value because in the case of C they would be the defacto starter instead of riding the bench like mosgov is right now
these type of guys could help us be respectable while over the next few years we try and build because we do need to wait for our core to develop before we start contending again which will only be in 2-3 years
rr says
Mid,
The 80s Pistons and Lakers were both championship teams, playing in a totally different era. The current Clippers are a veteran team trying to contend. The Lakers need to develop talent and get guys that complement the young guys. Neither of those criteria applies to Williams. As far as roster churn, when a team goes 17-65, it needs a lot of churning.
Also, as I said last year (many others said so as well) and as some are saying now: there is a good argument to be made that Clarkson should be the second unit scorer, and that the Lakers should try to get a 3/D type with enough lateral quickness and size to play the 2 alongside Russell.
Anonymous says
Keep the kids. Sign Joakim Noah at center and continue the rebuild
Craig W. says
If the FO is able to make a trade involving Lou Williams and get an upgrade somewhere, I certainly am not against that. What I am against is the thinking that Lou doesn’t add anything to our team and should be ‘dumped’ for the first ‘bag of beans’ available. First, we don’t know the market for Lou is and second, he is a stabilizing presence on a club that has been churning its roster over the last two years.
There is value in some stability. Nobody does well when everything in their life changes at the same time. We have to change – no argument – but we have to find some things that don’t change. The team wants something that is familiar to remain constant, while we bring in a new coach, new system, new players. A team is an organic whole, not just a collection of players. This is my main gripe with people who sell ‘numbers uber alles’. Societies – read teams – aren’t just a collection of statistics. The whole is more than the sum of the parts. Any other homily you want to use.
R says
I love Noah’s energy – when he’s able to play. At this point, however, he seems to be well past his prime due to injuries.
Haven’t we had enough broken down vets cycling through the Lakers roster in recent years? If the team was anywhere near being ready to contend it might be worth taking a chance on an old/wounded player. But not now.
Anonymous says
Yeah, Noah is a guy that a contender needing a big might try. For example, if they lose Ezeli, GS might want Noah.
matt says
Here’s my list of mobile bigs that available
UFA
Whiteside, horford, mahinmi, j.hill, noah, d.lee, and biyombo p/o
RFA
ezeli, tarik black, miles plumlee, miles leonard, and dedmon
Plumlee, black, leonard dedmon, and lee. Would be considered backup material
Fern says
Every team worth a damn needs a scorer like Williams off the bench. I find amusing that people here wants perfect players up and down the roster like this is create a player in 2k16. People want 15 players that are two way players with elite athleticism and defense that can rebound shoot over 40% from 3 ,block shots and shoot 90% from the line.Not going to happen. Like i said before his contract is cost effective, there are worse players getting paid double than what he makes. And his contract will be an asset when the time comes. His way of finding a how to score regardless how he is shooting the ball is uncanny. He is great for our second unit alongside Nance, Brown, Tarik Black and whoever we pick in the Draft and free agency. Also that 7 million expiring contract is going to be worth something after next season.
matt says
From what i understand of noah he reinjured his shoulder that was not fully recovered, he should be considered, evaluated, and signed if he looks ok, noah and biyombo would be a great 1,2 at center
Don’t sleep on miles plumlee or dewayne dedmon, both those guys destroyed slow roy, and lost bass
A Horse With No Name says
Matt @ 12:12 A pretty good list in a weak FA class. To this we can hope to get a big to develop with the 32nd pick. There’s value there, as Mitch has been saying.
rr says
>Every team worth a damn needs a scorer like Williams off the bench
The Lakers won 17 games last year. They’re not worth a damn; they are a deep lottery team that has not competed in three years, doing a ground-up rebuild.
>People want 15 players that are two way players with elite athleticism and defense that can rebound shoot over 40% from 3 ,block shots and shoot 90% from the line
Nope. Low-usage guys who can it 34-35% from 3, and are in their 20s, and will play a little D can be found, although it is not that easy. Mid’s suggestion of Solomon Hill makes sense, for example, or they might be able to draft a guy like that at 32, who can play a wing position.
I think that the Lakers need to fill out the roster with guys who have strengths the young guys don’t.
Fern says
@rr your know it all attitude is really tiresome for real you spend the entire day just refuting everybody that don’t see things the way you do. Im not talking about last season team im talking about next season and beyond, that should be clear even to you. Your one of those guys that talk like you have all the answers. No wonder the Lakers stink why they haven’t hire you to take Jim Buss job is beyond me.And yes Williams can help this team and guess what? Huertas too. like someone mentioned Vinnie Johnson ect and you immediately came out with the “it was another era” bs guess what, there are guys in this era like that does JR Smith play defense? and he is a vital component of the Cavs. Right now we are talking about the future, yeah i get it your part of the 2k16 crew. We need 15 perfect players in every position right? “low usage guys that can shoot 35 % from three and are in their 20s” i guess we need ten of those, rebounding and scoring down low be damned. Our core is where the real youth should reside, the rest are players to suplement that core. We need veterans for that and btw Williams is 29 not 290 years old and did average over 15 points por game and your precious 34% from 3. Look we all know he is not perfect but this team is bound to improve and i would keep him and Huertas in a heartbeat. We can strenghten the bench thru the draft and free agency but we need veterans specially in the second unit. If there is a trade for a better younger player im all for it but i doubt it. Again, his salary is acceptable and will become a nice bargaining chip after next season. But let’s hope for those 10 low usage 34%nfrom three guys you waiting on.
rr says
Fern,
While DS didn’t take a position on Lou Williams, and may think the team should keep him, I will point you to what he said in his new post, which, although you probably won’t believe it, I didn’t read until after I posted above:
“3). Find wings — yes, multiple wings — who can play defense and hit the occasional 3-point shot. The Lakers have simply lacked defensive options on the wing over the past several seasons and it has shown up in their efficiency rankings. The last two years they finished 29th and 30th in the league, that needs to improve and it’s going to have to be a combination of upgrades on the wing and finding the big man mentioned in point #2. This is especially true when you consider the Lakers are already heavily invested in Russell (and will also likely be in Clarkson – more on that next) who have not yet shown they can be plus defenders. The team needs wings who can help cover up for these players’ shortcomings on that end of the floor. ”
—
And that is all I and many other people are saying. There’s nothing wrong with Williams, but he simply doesn’t fit what the Lakers need right now.
matt says
Pg. Michael frazier, looked good in the d-league replay
Craig W. says
The thing about Williams is that he is actually on the Laker team and does have value. No, I would not try to sign another Williams, but I would definitely keep him on the team. A veteran that can shoot and provides continuity is certainly a worthy person to have on our team.
If we were to find someone who could shoot and was better defensively, I would trade Williams for him, but I doubt the other team in the equation would do the deal.
Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good. rr, you can come across as only being happy with the perfect. GS is not perfect, neither is OKC or Cleveland, but they are all very good.
rr says
Craig,
I am not saying that the Lakers should waive Williams and eat his deal, but yes, I do think the FO should try to move him for whatever they can get. This has nothing to do with Golden State or Cleveland or bromides about the perfect and the good. It has to do with the Lakers trying to build a roster of players that fit together and that they can build on. Williams’ age and skillset do not fit right now and like Nick Young, his presence and contract are remnants of the FO’s failed attempts to build competitive teams around Kobe and veteran role players while maintaining cap space. Kobe is gone, Byron is gone, and it is time to move on from that paradigm.