What would, or should, the Lakers offer to get KG?
Itâ€™s a question the Lakers could face this summer, because itâ€™s not hard to see Garnett finally going to management and asking out. I still doubt he does it, but it could happen.
So, what would you give up? Iâ€™m asking because this blog has joined a little contest â€” along with Jeff from Celtics Blog and Matt from Blog-a-Bull â€” to come up with the best offer we can then compare it to offers from the most mentioned contenders in the hypothetical bidding war. We have to have answer by Thursday then Henry Abbot from True Hoop (and his commenters) will weigh in with a decision on Friday.
(Yes, I know what this blog is about is less speculation and more analysis, but two things swayed me: 1) breaking down the beat up Lakers of the last few weeks is not much fun [even if the Lakers are getting Odom and Walton back Thursday]; 2) this sounded like fun.)
So, Iâ€™m looking for a little help with what the Lakers should offer up (and they have to be legitimate offers that clear the trade checker). Thereâ€™s no doubt that Lamar Odom would be at the heart of the deal, itâ€™s hard to let him go but for KG itâ€™s part of the price.
The real question is: What about Bynum? The same question from the trade deadline. Even Kevin McHale is going to ask for him, maybe make him a requirement. Throw him in and the chances of the deal happening go up exponentially. But remember to think long term â€” without Bynum the Lakers are built for the next four years only, the window is open and we should be serious title contenders (if the right role players can be found to fit around the big two). But after that it will be like the Bulls just after the Jordan era â€” four or five years of the lottery, a complete and total rebuild.
Could we make a deal work with Odom, a sign-and-trade for Walton and someone else (Cook, maybe Sasha). Do you need Walton to make KG and Kobe work together? What about other ideas?
Here is my proposal, as a starting point:
Kwame Brown (and his expiring $9 million contract to help with the rebuild)
Is that the best we can do? Put up suggestions and tomorrow (Tuesday) Iâ€™ll put some of the options into the polling area to the right, and everyone can vote. Iâ€™ll post the official offer up on Thursday.
Letâ€™s have some fun, we deserve it right now.
UPDATE: The poll is up on the right, with DrRayEye’s suggestion just added. So vote and vote often, just like this was a Chicago Alderman election.
The Lakers have to do something soon. I have several questions/comments. Is it a coincidence that all of the recent victims of Kobeâ€™s arms & elbows are white? It is strange given the number of such players in the league. Also, Supposing that Kurt takes the helm next year, has he said whether he would abandon the triangle?
1) It is a coincidence about the elbow “victims” being white. Technically, Manu is South American, but whatever. I’m not even sure this is worth debating it’s so crazy, it sounds like sports talk radio crap.
And the triangle isn’t going anywhere. The Lakers have started building this team to be a triangle team and when Phil steps down (and that will not be next year) the team likely will fall to Brian Shaw, who also will run the tri.
Interesting. Thanks – as always.
John (Vancouver) says
League is looking into another Kobe elbow. Seriously.. I don’t want to sound like another John around here, but this is starting to smell very strange. Every single player said it was no big deal, just part of the game.
The white guy thing is funny. Someone brought this up somewhere else, but one of the Mavs (maybe Devean) did the same thing to Sasha in last night’s game that Kobe did to Korver in the Philly game. Of course, Sasha got called for the foul. Maybe it’s just because white guys play defense with their faces? I dunno.
A point of interest: Manu is from Argentina, but his family is of Italian descent.
As for Garnett, I dunno. I have a love/hate relationship with the idea of acquiring him. For me, I don’t give up both Odom and Bynum. I really, really don’t want to give up either one, but I’d keep Bynum over Odom. You probably have to throw Kwame in there for salary purposes. Odom, Kwame, and Cook works but would require at least one draft pick (probably more) in order to get the Wolves to bite.
Kobe was assessed a flagrant 1 for the “incident” with Korver.
Even if the Lakers get KG the Lakers will not be good until they find a PG that can defend, play heady, and hit an open jump shot (I keep saying it, but Chris Duhon’s my guy).
Now say they solve their point guard problems, and have an opportunity to get Garnett. Do they do it? And do they trade both Bynum and Lamar to do it?
The problem with building for the future is you never know what is going to happen. Who knows how Bynum is going to develop or what his ceiling is? Who knows if he’ll have an injury free career? What we do know is that a KG/Bryant/Phil Jackson combo would be deadly.
That being said, I’m still not so sure if I would trade both Bynum and Odom as Minnesota would probably require. So this is the deal I would probably shoot for:
Kwame Brown (Expiring Deal)
Two First Round Picks (sweeten the deal a bit)
Give us a starting line up of:
Farmar/Free Agent/PG other than Smush
is that team better than the one we’re currently fielding. I think theres no doubt about it. The question is will Minny bite on that.
If they didn’t go for that and we had to have KG, would we be willing to throw Bynum in the deal?
Lets say we did and sent Minn Bynum and Lamar for KG.
We would still have this years first round pick and Kwames expiring deal. We could send Kwame’s deal and a filler player and or draft pick to say sacramento for Mike Bibby or Artest (one of them will go this summer).
That would give us a line up of:
Kobe (Kobe as the Facilitator)
You have to ask yourself is that team better than the one they are currently fielding. I would have to say yes
If you don’t like Artest or Bibby coming back, there’s also options of throwing Kwame into the Minn deal with Bynum and Lamar and taking back of one or two of Minn guards, or using Kwame’s deal to try to bring back an Andre Miller type. Or maybe just keeping Kwame as or starting Center and then trying to sign a point guard with the midlevel. Basically I’m trying to say that they Lakers have options.
But no matter what they do, they have to make sure that they address their guard/defensive issues on too. Getting KG is fine, but they won’t be any better if they don’t upgrade from the Smusher.
I have a feeling that this years draft day is going to be the craziest in years. There are so many teams that are going to be looking to make moves. An agressive GM can vastly improve his team if he’s creative enough.
If we keep Odom in a trade for Garnett and have to give up Bynum. I would dump the triangle and go showtime with KG at the 5. Run Kobe at the point on offense, with Luke at the 3, Odom at 4, and KG at the 5. We still have problems with who is the defensive point. But, otherwise, this team would have a lot of what the showtime Lakers had, damn good defensively, can get up and down the court, and can still score in half court sets. KG isn’t as tall as Jabbar, but has some of the same grace that Jabbar had in the post.
Is there someway to move Radmonovic instead of Cook?
Im not sure if this matters, but if the Heat coud hold on to Wade why can’t the Laker’s hold on to Bynum. Trade Odom, Brown, and a future 1st rounder (that’s pretty much what the Lakers got for Shaq) and throw in Radmonovic. Would the salaires work?
If anything, the Lakers should play hardball with McHale – if he doesn’t make a deal this summer Garnett is opting out of the deal after 2008 and the pull to play with Phil and Kobe for a championship could bring him to LA anyway. I like the sound of a Bynum, Garnett, Odom front line.
D Myers says
JONESONTHENBA said the guy we need “Bibby”!!
We need a PG that knows what he’s doing out there, knows how to create, knows how to get other guys shots and knows how to use the clock. Bibby single handedly destroys us every time we play them becuase we have weak PG defenders and he picks them appart.
Smuch, Sasha, Farmar? their lost out there.
Why do we need KG?
We got 3 Bigs!
Yes, one is forever injured, hasn’t played in a season and a half; One won’t dunk and can’t make 1 out of 10 lay ups if his life depended on it but their in there for rebounds and defense. They do an OK job at that.
WE NEED A PG BADDLY!!
As the years go on Bynum is going to get better and better. By next i think he is going to be a Beast.
If we get a Strong PG. The Starting Line-up should be.
Odom vs. KG? What the Differance?
Odom is a better passer and can take guys off the dribble.
KG has got the mid range jumper.
Other than that its a toss up.
We might even have a better player when Odom is 100%.
I love Bynum, and Lamar, but you have to give something up to get something back. We can’t just give Minnesota what we want to give them, we have to give them what they want. Keep in mind that when teams trade a player with the impact that KG can have, they usually want to send that player to the other conference. So that already gives Boston and Chicago an advantage. For us to make the T’Wolves accept our offer over theirs, we are really going to have to impress them.
Lets look at it from Minnesota’s point of view. They are obviously very stubborn. They think they are good. If they didn’t, KG would have already been traded by now. If they are looking at our roster, they would ask for Lamar, obviously, to keep them above water through the rebuilding process. Bynum, to build their future around (and to lighten the harassment McHale would have to take if he didn’t get Bynum). and probably any draft picks we can offer them for this year’s draft, which for some reason they are making to sound like a superdraft. And finally some key role players. I say we offer Vlad first, if they don’t like him, then offer Cook. I don’t see them really wanting Luke. I don’t think he can be as good in a system thats not the triangle.
So here’s my offer.
Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Our 1st round pick. and Vlad Radmanovic or Brian Cook.
I also wouldn’t mind asking the Wolves to throw Jaric into the mix to sweeten the deal for them. I can see him being a productive “big guard” in the triangle.
That leaves us a lineup of Kwame, KG, Luke, Kobe, and undetermined PG (possibly Farmar). Twolves get Bynum, Lamar, Vlad or Cook, to start with Ricky Davis and Foye.
I know we all want to keep Bynum at all costs, but we can’t be too conservative. We have to roll the dice a little bit.
If Bynum was required in a Jason Kidd deal that means he would be ultra-super-no-chance-to-make-this-deal-without-him in a KG deal..I would rather go after a decent PF and keep Bynum (Gasol perhaps?) and deal whoever’s left for a non craptacular PG (I’ll just say Bibby)..giving a lineup of
If we can keep Odom..even better..but not necessary
PS..i’m really getting sick of this Kobe suspension garbage..if they want to suspend him fine but I’m going to start youtubing elbows from the past 20 years that haven’t even gotten a foul, much less a suspension
kwame a. says
I’d center the deal around Bynum, he’s fools gold and when the rest of the GM’s in the NBA wise-up to the fact that he is at best Brad Dougherty and at worst Brendan Haywood they will stop offering prime-time veterans for him. We should’ve used him to get Artest, we should’ve used him to get Pau Gasol, if we don’t use him to get Garnett then we will be stuck paying his average butt 80 million, that my friends will put us well into the next decade and we’ll still be mediocer.
Bynum- resigned to 80 million dollar deal
any pick(s) they ask for
We can win the championship next year with Kwame, KG, Luke, Kobe, Free Agent PG, Ronny, Cook, Mo, Farmar. We would be back to Shaq-Kobe status overnight and maybe even better since our superstars would actually like each other.
Can you guys imagine how deadly Kobe, KG would be? At this point in their careers, they are both unselfish and want a ring in the worst way. They would be unstoppable.
John R. says
“if he doesnâ€™t make a deal this summer Garnett is opting out of the deal after 2008”
I wouldn’t hold my breath. 20+ million per year for the rest of his career is alot to give up. Garnett’s contract situation is pretty unique. If he opts out, he is giving up FAR more money than anyone has before. This isn’t a slightly above mid-level player opting to just take the mid-level. Garnett is one-of-a-kind-no-player-can-ever-get-a-deal-like-his-again-including-him status.
Cumulative, he could be leaving $80+ million on the table if he leaves that contract with possible extensions, etc. He is already rich, but he has the chance to be wealthy. If he were to actually opt-out, it would diminish my perception of his intelligence. In layman’s terms, it would be pretty stupid.
Much better to come up with wild trade scenarios.
John R. says
Wait, Bibby? That’s a terrible choice for the triangle. He can’t shoot and definitely he can’t play defense.
On the elbows: How about if he gets to five incidents we all agree to agree that he is intentionally elbowing non-blacks in the face? I would have thought four was enough.
kwame a. says
Damn Goo, I am with you 100%. This is ridiculous, I have no witty comment, or anything constructive to add aside from the fact that this rule is being applied disproportionatley, utterly surreal how the leauge is dealing with this, imagine another marquee player, from any sport, being scrutinzed and suspended for playing ‘his game’.
I think we need a PG who can play defense more than a PG who can work the offense. I’ve never thought of Bibby as a good defender.
One problem with playing hardball with the T-Wolves is that the Bulls and Celtics may not be playing hardball and Garnett can just end up there. I’m not sure how many “takers” there could be for Garnett. If there are only a couple, maybe playing hardball will work. I do like the idea, though. If Garnett wants out, the T-Wolves will probably be more desperate to trade Garnett than we (or the Bulls, Celtics, etc) would to trade for him.
kwame a. says
ah, John, I miss fuming inside after reading posts on FBG, thank you, thank you for you’re work. I’ll let KG know that his intellectual-capacity is on the line when he decides if he can find a way to properly secure and protect his over 200$ million dollars of salary and endorsements. Assuming you’re not ridiculuosly wealthy, I dont think our perspective on whats financially ‘intelligent’ or not is really worth salt.
On Bibby: there’s no way, even if we wanted him, that we would get him. We had a deal in place before the deadline that was ready to go, and the Maloofs chickened out at the last second because they couldn’t stomach sending him to their old arch-nemesis.
I’m most upset we didnt’ waive Radman, who is awful and who’s salary, if cut, could’ve given us a chance to sign a Mo Williams this summer.
About KG: to give up Bynum and Odom is a huuuuuuge gamble—though it could win us a championship or two. I, for one, love Odom, and think that if confident and healthy, he can play with Kobe better than he has even at his best this season. The problem is that he seems to be entering “always hurt” status. For KG, it might be worth it. Bynum has too much potential to get rid of, even if Kobe has four more years at his elite level. The kid’s 19. Once he builds muscle, practices his hook and starts throwing it down, he is going to be a beast. And people are sleeping on Luke, he really did hold this team together and will only, only improve.
So if I had to:
But not both Lamar and Bynum. Our future would be in serious jeapordy after a few years.
John R. says
“Assuming youâ€™re not ridiculuosly wealthy, I dont think our perspective on whats financially â€˜intelligentâ€™ or not is really worth salt. ”
Don’t underestimate yourself. We don’t have to murder someone to know that murder is wrong. Likewise, we don’t have to be independently wealthy to know what a good financial decision is.
Anyone can see that potentially leaving a hundred million dollars or more on the table to play for a hunk of metal worth a tiny fraction of a percent of that and your name on a piece of paper is a bad decision.
Think of all the good for the world he could do with that money.
Go with Kurt’s plan and come up with a trade. Think about a way to land Oden in Minnesota and also give them a massive salary dump. Help them deal out KG and others too. Think massive 3 or 4 team job. Get to work.
First, you are not going to get an argument here that what the Lakers need most is a PG, one that fits the triangle and can defend. I have said since last summer that was the priority.
Also, there is no doubt this is more diversion than reality.I don’t expect things to go down this way.
kwame a. says
KG can do what he wants, not everyone is motivated to accumulate the most wealth they possibly can, nor do people judge wealth merely in terms of dollars and cents. That so-called piece of metal means something to people, not so much for others. As a clipper fan I can see why you do not care about the title, but others want to win a title, some so much they would sacrifice that money to do so.
slightly off topic, but for those that want more Laker breakdowns, Nate Jones does a great job of summing things up over at the AOL Fanhouse:
Rob L. says
Perhaps five Bodhisattvas could turn the team around. ; – )
John R. says
There’s that Clipperfan red herring again. First, it isn’t quite true. Second, the overall comment enters the realm of personal attacks. I have been cordial, if not pleasant, in this thread, so I am not sure what warrants that, but to be honest it is not unexpected as Lakerfan never fails to live up to his reputation of rapist/racist-apologist roots.
Kobe even elbowed Sasha in the head. The dude needs sensitivity training in a bad way.
If Garnett wants to win a title so bad he should take the hundreds of millions, buy a franchise, then win a title. Far more impressive in the scheme of life. Hmm, perhaps I should raise Laettner in my esteem power rankings.
Not all of us are not held down by your lack of imagination.
kwame a, I’m with you, Bynum just seems too soft, he should have developed a mean streak (or at least an agressive put-back jam) by now. Not that I ever would have traded him for Kidd in a million years.
Mike M says
Kwame, Vlad, and Odom for Garnett and Mike James…James stinks less than Smush does
14) If Bynum turns into Brad Daugherty, the Lakers will be VERY happy. The guy was an all-star every year he was healthy. His career got cut short by a back injury, but if not for that he would be in a lot more fans minds as a great center. Check Daugherty’s stats:
I pray that Bynum becomes that good!
sam t says
keep kwame, for his size and defense…
i ll send them odom, vlad, smush (sign and trade) and bynum…
for KG, and jaric (or mike james)…
resign luke, and mihm in the summer…
be reminded that we do not need a dominant center in the triangle… see longley and who ever PJ had in his bulls days…
then we would have:
KG, cooke, ronny;
luke, evans, (+draft);
farmar, jaric (or mike james), and of course sahsa……
I just don’t see Odom playing well with both KG and Kobe, as he can’t play with Kobe alone. If he smartened up and drive in more, maybe we’d have something. But as of now, I’d rather keep Luke over him if we trade for KG.
Bottomline: Best case scenario would be for KG to opt out and sign for cheap change. 😀
Also, I also think that our main priority is defense @ PG. Along with some good drive defense, shotblocking, and perhaps a Scottie Pippen. Not to mention a Derek Fisher (heart and guts)–the Lakers, apart from Kobe and a few other guys, don’t want to win.
“we do not need a dominant center in the triangleâ€¦ ” – samt
We don’t, but it sure as hell would win us games…see Shaq and Kobe v1…
Also, I forgot to mention that the shotblocking/drive defense can from the draft.
I posted this on one of my fanhouse posts earlier today, bu here’s why the Lakers are willing to gamble on Bynum:
Since 1999, a Shaq or Tim Duncan led team has been in every single NBA Final. During that same time, a Shaq or Tim Duncan led team has also won seven of the possible eight NBA championships. Small ball revolution or not, in the end those two still rule the NBA.
kwame a. says
Jones- I wasn’t saying daugherty was bad, I’m saying he could never have been the focal point of a title team, and if that’s the best bynum can become, then we shouldnt hold him to build a title team around, becuase he can’t deliver that.
I see him as a solid option, a number 2 or 3 when he’s ready, but he won’t dominate, it’s never been seen and its not in his game. All other dominate players would at least display flashes of dominance. I’d rather try to win for another 4 years and then go back to square one than stay at square 2 hoping to advance past that
kwame a. says
PS- nice article jones, i always like your work
Tim Duncan showed flashes of dominance?
Kwame A….Thanks for the props.
Are you saying that if Bynum turned into Daugherty and was paired with Kobe the Lakers couldn’t win the title?
Put Daugherty in his prime on this Laker team right now and they’re probably one of the best in the league (Even with Smush as the PG). The only reason the 92 Cavs didn’t make the Finals is the same reason almost every east coast team in the 90s didn’t make the Finals. The Cavs were very good when Daugherty was very good. A Daugherty like player with Kobe would be devestating. The question with Bynum is how long will it take him to develop and if he will reach his potential while Kobe is still a top player? I believe Kobe has a good 5 years left where he will be one of the top 10 players in the league. So if Bynum devlops within that time the Lakers have a winner. The key here is for the Lakers front office to find good players to surround those guys with. Look at how the Mavericks and Spurs have found great players in the late first round. The Lakers need to do the same thing! They also need to make good signings and trades. And for pete’s sake, GET CHRIS DUHON to start at PG(http://nba.aolsportsblog.com/2007/02/27/the-lakers-missing-link-chris-duhon/).
The thing that is really so impressive about Bynum for me is that he’s already improved so much. I wrote about what I thought about him this summer here:
And I think he’s already gotten a lot better. The problem with him is still the same thing…Lower body strength and conditioning. If he could get in better shape and train to get off the ground a bit quicker and a bit higher he’d be unstoppable. Right now he barely gets off the ground and isn’t in good enough shape to run around for an entire game, yet he’s still better than half the Centers in the league (I know that’s not saying much). IF he continues down the same track he’ll be a lot to handle.
This gives the Lakers a young guy to build around after the window closes for KG and Kobe, and increases the likelihood of the deal happening by including Bynum.
Mihm (sign and trade)
It doesn’t meet the deal checker, because we are not allowed to include Mihm, but this package makes sense for both teams.
Lakers get PG and needed allstar. Keep Kwame (the present) and Bynum (the future). Lakers have three open slots for rookies or Phil’s famous veteran acquisitions who want a championship.
Lakers could add future draft pick (not next years)
Minnesota gets Odom and forwards that they need and/or blue chip trading options they can use for rebuilding.
2 things… i don’t see any way in hell that the wolves would give us KG and Foye. They are gonna keep Foye no matter what. Their idea is to build around Foye and Bynum.
And secondly, I say the odom,cook,bynum suggestion looks the best but i would also throw in a first round pick or two to sweeten the deal.
2 FIRST ROUNDERS
WOLVES 2ND ROUND PICK
so many good points…good topic.
KG…is amazing…there is no doubt there and I would love to see him in Forum Blue…but…
….I for one dont want to give up Lamar….I love that guy…if he had not gotten hurt…he would have been an All Star IMO…this year he really stepped up and we were finally seeing the lamar that he could have been all thru his carrer.
I say…we just see what happens when Luke and Lamar come back…..I got a good feeling about the team….with all players back…
In regards to the Lakers Point guard problems, I know this might sound crazy, but they should have tried to get Juan Dixon from portland. He’s more of a combo guard, but he does everything the Lakers need out of that their Point man. He would have been a tremendous upgrade over smush. I’ve been watching his last few games with Toronto on Youtube. He’s pretty good!
There are a few guards on the Raptors I’d like to have.
anyone who is half decent at basketball or knows anything about the game would do the exact thing in any situation kobe has been in. end of game, big shot, your blocked and or fouled like kobe has been…. your gona try to get the foul which the refs dont ever call. since we r suspending kobe for acting or actually gettin fouled, we mine as well fine every person in the leauge who flops and falls to the ground trying to catch a charge. its basketball suck it up or get off the court, tell these cry babies who dont like the fouls to go sit on the sideline with D Wade im sure he has some leftover tissues.
45 – The problem is that the people who don’t like the fouls ARE on the sidelines, and more specifically, the comissioner’s office.
I definitely think Kobe’s being singled out and treated very differently than other superstars in the league. But I have no idea why.
Did Kobe get suspended again or something?
If I were the Lakers and wanted to get KG, this is what I would give up:
For some reason, I don’t like Mo Williams as our PG. Is he a great point guard? Yes. Is he better than Smush? Hell yes! But is he the best fit for what we need? I don’t think so.
I just took a look at the Bull and Celtic’s Blogs in comparison to ours. I’ll be blunt.
If KG decides and the Greatest GM in basketball needs to deal, it may be the sworn enemy (us), or. . .
his next GM job might be trying to develop a basketball team somewhere in Laos.
I just hope that KG asks for a trade, and the Lakers (&KG) pull a ‘Miami heat’.
a lot of you guys are talking about KG not leaving because it would not be smart financially, but hes already set for life, he can already buy anything he wants short of maybe his own personal island, i would be willing to bet an NBA championship would mean more to KG than almost any amount of money, cause you cant buy one of those.
i would trade
KG and Ricky davis
making our lineup
I seem to be one of the few people out there that likes smush, i think we can win with him, and by getting ricky davis we get another reliable scorer who can come off the bench or start in maybe a smaller lineup.