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A Lakers Blog. Thoughts, reflections, and the odd rant on the Los Angeles Lakers and the NBA (even the Clippers).

Preview & Chat: The New Jersey Nets

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Records: Lakers 30-16 (5 seed); Nets 20-27 (8 seed)
Offensive ratings: Lakers 112.7 (5th); Nets 103.6 (25th)
Defensive ratings: Lakers 106.5 (8th); Nets 109.6 (22nd)
Projected Starting Lineups: Lakers: Derek Fisher, Kobe Bryant, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol
Nets: Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Josh Boone, Sean Williams

Lakers Notes: It’s Super Tuesday — Pau Gasol will start his first game as a Laker. Reports out of practice yesterday were that Pau picked up the offense quickly, but we’ll see how much burn he gets (sore back and all). Whatever happens, I’m just happy to see him in that #16 jersey.

There’s been a real bounce in the Lakers step the last two games, since the trade was announced, but that has been more on the offensive end than on defense. It helped that the Lakers played two teams that played questionable defense, particularly against Kobe. (Did you notice the last couple games that Kobe would get the ball in a threatening position, the hard double team would come, Kobe would dribble out of pressure to a non-threatening spot, and the guy doing the double would retreat to his man, leaving Kobe back in one-on-one defense. Then he would blow by his guy for a lay-up with almost no defensive rotation. Odd defensive choice, once you double Kobe don’t you want to keep up the pressure and make him pass? The Raptors got burned on that a lot and the Wizards a couple times.)

In the last 10 games, without Bynum, the Lakers have a defensive rating of 111.7 — basically five points more per 100 possessions than they give up for the season. Look at it this way, those are worse than last season’s numbers and would be 25th in the league this season. While the last two games were blowout wins, the defensive ratings were 108.3 (Washington) and 116.1 (Toronto). What won the Lakers those games was crazy offensive efficiency (offensive ratings of 139 against Washington, 122 against Toronto). But if the Lakers are going to keep winning they need to get the defense back on track.

Hopefully, Pau in the lineup will help as he can provide some D in the paint. Ronny and Mbenga provide some, but the Lakers still clearly miss Bynum’s presence on defense.

Speaking of that little bump of energy the Lakers have had, doesn’t it seem Vladamir Radmanovic was second to Kobe on that? Radman was driving the lane against the Wiz like he thought he was Chris Paul. But Radman and Walton have to start making their case for minutes right now — they see the landscape of the Pau trade, likely pushing Lamar to start at the three, and they see their minutes cut. (I know there are some calling for bringing Odom off the bench, but I think we can safely say that even if Phil is going to come to that decision he’s not going to do it for a while.) Then someday Ariza is going to come back, and suddenly there are more quality players then there are minutes at the three and four. It gives Phil a lot of luxury in terms of matchups and an ability to go with the hot hand, but the players they may not be as thrilled. We’ll see who steps up and earns the burn.

More Aaron McKies: Aaron McKie, trying to break into coaching as an unpaid assistant with the Philadelphia 76ers this season, became part of the trade with the Memphis Grizzlies to help make the salaries work out.

But don’t worry, according to an interesting post (and great bit of reporting) by Henry at True Hoop, the Lakers also still have the rights to Ron Harper, Karl Malone, Shammond Williams, Horace Grant, Mitch Richmond, John Salley and, Brian Shaw to use in any future trade. As we said at the time of the trade, a lot of teams keep the rights to retired guys for just this type of situation, click the link and check out the entire list.

The Nets Coming In: Well, I guess we won’t be hearing as much “Jason Kidd to the Lakers” talk as we would have before Pau came to town.

As bad as they Nets record is, it really should be worse. They have 20 wins but their Pythagorean record (based on points scored and given up) is that of a 15 win team. As a team they have been getting good play from the big three of Kidd, Carter and Jefferson, but not the great play you expect from those three. All three are shooting just about 48% (eFG%) (in fact the only person playing a significant role who is shooting better than 50% if rookie Sean Williams). And with that supporting cast you need great play from the big three. Kidd, who looked great last summer with Team USA, now looks tired and by all reports his mind is in the Bahamas, or maybe Dallas. I’m not sure having a happy and pumped Kobe come to town is going to help that any.

The Nets have their own new player from a trade expected to suit up tonight, Stromile Swift should play his first game for the Nets. He helps make them more athletic, and I would have moved him for Jason Collins in a heartbeat (this season Swift has a PER of 16, while Collins has one of 2. That’s right, 2. For comparison, the league average is 15 and Kwame Brown had a PER of 9.9). Swift is just 28, plus the Nets have two draft picks from the last couple of years (Josh Boone and Sean Williams) who may be something to start rebuilding around. Once they move Kidd and Carter. Good luck with that.

Keys To The Game: With Nenad Krstic having played just 13 games this season, the Nets used to have Collins as their center. Which meant all their offense came from the perimeter. Now Sean Williams and Josh Boone along the front line they are at least getting some offense — Boone has averaged 12 points10 boards in the last 10 games. The Lakers, especially with Gasol, have the length to limit some of his points and turn the Nets back into a perimeter team, where they struggle.

According to the scouting report at Lakers.com, the Nets want to get easy baskets in transition (which makes sense with Kidd passing and guys like Carter and Williams who can finish) but if you take those away from them they bog down some in the half-court offense. Transition defense will be a big key.

On offense, the Lakers just need to be aggressive — and hit their free throws. The Nets foul a lot, 27th in the league in free throws to field goals — so if the Lakers attack as they have the last couple of games they will get to the line. They just have to hit them.

A fast start also would be a big help. For as bad as the Nets have played (2-8 in their last 10) they have a lot of talent, and guys that have won big games and hit big shots. If the Lakers can jump out to a fast lead it may demoralize the Nets, and the Lakers can get another easy win on the road. But let them hang around and you have to worry about Kidd making a great play with the game on the line, and he can still do that.

Where you can watch: Game time is 4:30 Pacific and that is what time you can catch the game on NBA TV. However, out in LA it is KCAL (channel 9) and that means, a 5:30 pm television time.


Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. Bobby Smith says

    What the heck happened to Kelly Dwyer? Dude was the new yahoo basketball blogging big shot pumping out 20 posts a day and then bam, he’s gone. What’s that all about?

    I, for one, enjoyed reading his stuff.

  2. jodial says

    Very excited to see #16 in action for the purple & gold. I guess that means the Lakers aren’t going to be retiring the number for John Salley, huh?

    This offseason & trade reminds me somewhat of 1986-87 – Laker historians may recall that after a heartbreaking lost to Houston in the ’86 WCF, rumors flew that Jerry West had to make a deal to shake things up – a James Worthy for Mark Aguirre deal was apparently on the burner all summer. (Imagine if there had been an internet!)

    Jerry West’s move? Nothing.

    Then, in the middle of the season, he fleeced a going-nowhere San Antonio front office out of Mychal Thompson (it cost the Lakers Frank Brickowski and Peter Gudmunsson), who was precisely the big man the Lakers needed.

    We all know how the ’87 and ’88 seasons turned out. Think the Lakers would have those banners in place without Worthy & Thompson?

    Two lessons Mitch has apparently learned from the Logo: Sit tight when the deal’s not right, and strike when you can get a quality big for cheap.

  3. Kurt says

    1. Without getting into all the sordid details, Yahoo management decided they wanted a different style in that blog and turned to Skeets (who is a good guy and knows basketball). You can decide for yourself what you think of that decision.

    KD is going to do the “behind the boxscore thing” and maybe some stories for Yahoo, but he’s likely to be somewhere else in the future. At least I hope so. I loved his stuff.

  4. UCR Mike says

    Interesting that the two (Pau & Swift) just-traded Grizzlies will be playing on their new teams for the first time tonight, and doing so against each other.

  5. Samy says

    # 4 that is really interesting!

    Any request from me as I witness first hand the beginning of a new era from the rafter of the IZOD center?

  6. drrayeye says

    Interesting side note. Gasol starts his first game as a Laker possibly facing a former teammate (Stromile Swift) playing his first game as a Net.

  7. Lamar Odom is back! says

    Samy please make a sign that says “I (heart) Ronny!”

    I think we should trade Odom and Mihm for J Kidd………..JK Kurt!!!!!!

    I’m excited about tonight. New prediction for this road trip: 6-3. I hope they go 8-1 though.

  8. chris h says

    Kurt, admit it, you had a ear-to-ear grin when you typed in the Lakers starting line up for tonight.

  9. Kurt says

    8. It’s funny, I have a template for all the coding and stuff with the previews, so the starting lineup is just kind of in there. I almost forgot to change it and had Ronny starting.

    I’ll have an even bigger smile when I can put Pau and Bynum both in there.

  10. DMo says

    In all of the considerable hubbub around the Gasol trade, there is one factor that hasn’t been discussed in much detail: the Locker Room. More specifically, how Gasol willl fit into it. One element of the Lakers success this season seems to be a sense of team unity, spurred by the leadership of Derick Fisher and reports that Kobe has made himself much more available to his teammates (mentoring them, taking them out to lunch, etc.). This appears to have helped team chemistry on the court. What I’ve heard about Gasol so far is all good: he seems like he has a decent work ethic and has gotten along with his teammates in the past.

    Any of the Spaniards out there have any insight? Grizzlies fans? NBA minutiae hounds?

    Thanks.

  11. Davis says

    I honor of the new Lakers, I just ordered League Pass for the first time. The guy at Comcast that took my order asked if it was to watch the Lakers. I laughed and asked how he knew, and he said he’s had a few other Laker fans call this morning… It’s only $99 right now for the rest of the season if anyone else was thinking about it.

  12. Samy says

    Dude, I think an I heart Ronny sign would be tight, if I have time to make it after class I’ll take a pic and post it online for you guys to look for it during the game

  14. Cragen says

    10# 2 or 3 years back, I remember that when the grizz came to Spain to play a couple of games, Gasol told the media that he was taking the whole team out for lunch etc, (as had been done in his former club before) in order to enhance team spirit and get everybody on the same page creating a positive atmosphere. I believe in that respect, you have nothing to worry about!

  15. UCSBShaw says

    It’s unreal how much coverage the Lakers are getting now. Anywhere that talks about basketball its LA all the time. I mean the Lakers were getting coverage when we were an 8th seed now we are title contendors it’s unreal. This is a good game for Pau to get in. He can easily exploit the weak inside game of the Nets. Even if they might have become slightly better that’s not saying much. Pau can get easy touches and not work that hard on defense(he will eventually). My feeling is how will LO take to his new role as #3 for right now and #4 when Andrew comes back. He always said he wanted to stay in LA now lets see if he means it.

    Just so you know no one can ever truly have the rights to Brian Shaw, it’s just not possible.

  16. Lamar Odom is back! says

    Thanks, Samy. It’s nice to know that at least one person does not ignore my comments. I didn’t think my identity would create such illegitimacy. Just because I don’t step up in games I’m given the cold shoulder in this blog. Unbelievable.

    I heart Ronny.

  17. chris h says

    I was speaking with my good friend in dallas today, (who is a Mav’s fan as well) and he was telling me that the talk radio around there is saying that there was some unethical aspects to our trade, (I told him that sounds like Cuban to me, screaming conspiracy theory against his team) but he said it was not Cuban, and he was serious. he went on to say some folks from other teams are asking the league to look into…how crazy is this?
    on the HDTV front, I have a 70″ lcd from Sony and this is the first year I’ve been able to watch HD on both KCAL and FSN, and I have to tell ya, it’s been fantastic!

    I explained to my wife that she hasn’t seen the lakers like this before, when we’ll be excited all the way into June, and each level gets more dramatic, (she is a fan too, and coming from Korea it’s all new to her).
    I am very excited about the rest of this season, and watching this team gel, with solid players, and coaching and hope for the best for the second season.

  18. 81 Witness says

    For once, I disagree with PJs decision to start Gasol tonight. I think he should be relegated to the bench for several reasons:

    1) He had a sore back. Let him rest a little more in preparation for tomorrow night. Why penalize Turiaf for his outstanding play the last two games?

    2) NJ doesn’t exactly play soft and he will have to fight off Williams, Boone, and a rested Kristic.

    3) Let him play tonight with the 2nd team and evaluate his role play as a primary scoring option. He will have more looks and create greater mismatches off the bench.

    Another strategy to employ tonight is to give Kidd open looks. He is shooting a career low while adding career highs in assists.

    Strategy the 2nd, the hack-a-josh. If it gets down to crunch time, foul Boone. The guy shoots FTs worse than Shaq and Kwame combined.

    Strategy the 3rd, Lakers need to get to the line. Hopefully, LO will not be afraid to go to the hole and draw the foul. His FTAs have improved recently.

  19. reed says

    I feel the need to publicly confess that Jerry Buss is a winner.

    I’ve questioned his will to win intermittently. Often here. He’s always clearly wanted to win, but I’ve wondered where his line was on profits v. winning. He’s certainly no Mark Cuban or Paul Allen. There are just too many back stories about him vetoing extremely helpful deals that would have bolstered the Magic or Shaq title teams (including the infamous veto of the Pippen trade).

    But he really, really came through on this trade. The Lakers were set to toe the luxury tax line next year, even with Kwame leaving, as Turiaf and Sasha were due reasonable raises. That means that adding Gasol’s salary essentially means we have to pay $2 for every dollar of his salary. His $14.6 million salary creates an after tax obligation of nearly $30 million. This is the exact reason we got him so cheap — no other “contenders” were willing to take on that kind of burden and no rebuilding teams had a reason to. There was no necessity to the deal; all signs pointed to a placated Kobe and a growing contender. Yet, he swung for the fences, despite massive financial costs.

    So, I salute Buss for not only approving the deal, but being willing to say that a better chance at a few titles was worth $30 million of his money.

  20. Jason says

    17 – Remember… Kupchak did say he wouldn’t have made this trade if Bynum were healthy.

    At the end of next year, Odom’s salary will come off the books, and by then our role players and Bynum will likely be making more money. I don’t see the 15M salary hole being filled. (Though, that isn’t to say Odom won’t be resigned.)

    I agree that it’s a great sign coming from ownership, but keep it in the perspective. Buss is trying to avoid the worst case scenario of a Bynum-less free fall out of playoff contention leading to more Bryant trade demands. Costs and benefits weighed, this made a ton of sense.

  21. Jason says

    20 is in response to 17’s “I feel the need to publicly confess that Jerry Buss is a winner.”

    I always see mis-referenced comments. What gives?

  22. Craig W. says

    reed,
    You not only put up a great post about the triangle and Pau, but your financial analysis is very cogent.

    Buss has really sucked it up this year. He may have to trade Lamar next summer, but, if Lamar indicates he may remain with the Lakers for less, he may role the dice again next year and we really won’t need any additional bodies for a couple of years. I don’t think most people really understood how much money Buss stood to pay by bringing in Pau. If we go to the finals he may make up a lot of it, but it is a real gamble for someone who is not obscenely rich.

  23. Daniel Sagal says

    The trade definitely made a lot of sense, no matter how you look at it. I’m just glad we have this hairy 7 footer on our side now. This team will do some really big things this year and for years to come. Tonight is going to be the first night though, it’s going to be so exciting!!!

  24. reed says

    I admit I’m a little over-excited and optimistic today…

    Yes the trade made sense on multiple levels and yes Odom comes off the books after next year, but Buss still had to face an additional $30 million in payroll next year and give the green light when no one else in the league was willing to. He’s earned my unconditional respect. Well, for this year.

  25. Kurt says

    13. James, we got an HD television this summer and all I can say is if you can afford it, do it. It’s not just sports that look better (and other sports benefit more than basketball, I think, from being in HD) but nature shows, travel, history shows, they all just pop to life in HD.

    18. I was surprised he’s starting as well.

  26. The Purple & Gold says

    I never knew before that the teams kept the rights to retired players this long. This is a brilliant move by Mitch to make the salaries match and one I never considered or thought of before.

    Mitch and the Lakers front office should be given a lot of credit on pulling off the Gasol trade along with the creativity to make the trade work under the salary rules.

    Where’s all the Fire Mitch people now?!

    Go Lakers!

  28. Jason says

    22 – “He may have to trade Lamar next summer”

    Lamar is under contract is UP next summer. Even if you trade Lamar THIS summer, it won’t help you, as he will then be an expiring contract.

  29. chris h says

    Jason, didn’t we just get a huge benefit from trading an “expiring contract”?
    I think the Lakers are in the drivers seat, we’re set for this year, see how far the team goes, and what kind of needs they will have. (they might win it all and have no needs, too…in which case, pay the salaries and reap the rewards)
    they can start the next season with LO again, and re-evaluate at this time next year, and LO is more than just an expiring contract, he can also play, catch the ball, pass, dunk, rebound…
    I’d say he’ll be a desirable trade bait —
    but that’s a year away, for now…
    enjoy the game tonight!

  30. kwame a. says

    If Gasol starts at C, then will Ronny start at the 4, or will Vlad play the 4. Or will Odom play the 4 and Vlad the 3, or Walton the 3. So many questions. I hope we start Gasol, Odom, Vlad, and use Walton and Ronny off the bench with Sasha and Farmar. Also, hope Kobe can play 35 minutes or fewer and our starters are fresh for the back to back

  31. Brian Tung says

    Kurt, I’m not too worried about the defense yet. I felt the Lakers played pretty good defense through three quarters against Washington, and it was only in the last quarter of garBOJ time that it was poor. The Toronto game is another matter–the defense was more porous up in America’s Hat (heh heh, I have to say, I like that one)–but it was just one game. We’ll see how the next few games play out defense-wise, especially as we have a slight change to the lineup.

  32. carter blanchard says

    What I don’t get about the Dwyer stuff, besides the fact that he was awesome so how could you not keep him, but if you really wanted a “new direction” why go with Skeets? Don’t get me wrong, I love JE and think he’ll do great, but to me, he’s of KD’s ilk as far as perspective of the game and sense of humor, without the breathtaking encyclopedic knowledge. I dunno, I guess I don’t know all the details so my 2 cents are worthless, but suffice to say wherever he pops back up again, I will follow.

  33. burningjoe says

    I dont know….Ronny seems the kind of guy that is not going to be bummed that he isnt starting. And I am sure there will be plenty of minutes for him.

    And…I dont understand all this about Lamar not adjusting to being the 3rd or 4th option? I think he will relish this and do even better…when allowed to be more free…I see his Rebounds going up…and playing the Small Forward…he may not be as fast a say Lebron or even Carmello….but he is a challenge in the fact that he has a 30 foot wing span!!!!!

    I’d make that sign read LO for President!!! (even though he did inhale)

  34. chibi says

    It’s a tough call as to the starting 3. If his shot is falling, Vlad will stretch the defense and allow Pau more room to operate. Turiaf is a superior cutter and finisher, so if he starts, Pau’s passing game can flourish.

    Another thing: would you rather have Vlad or Turiaf guard Richard Jefferson?

    I think Vlad starts, mainly b/c Turiaf’s our only backup C. Kobe’ll play the 3 if Vlad can’t hang with RJ.

  35. Matt M. says

    Anyone have a reliable p2p link for tonight’s game???

    I have league pass, (outside of LA) but for whatever reason it doesn’t come with NBA TV. Incredibly frustrating to pay $160+ to see the Lakers and then not be able to watch these “nationally” televized games.

    Thanks in advance.

  37. Craig W. says

    Next summer in my lingo is this summer in your lingo.

    Anyway, we were already over the Luxury Tax level slightly this year. Trading Kwame for Pau put us much farther over the cap (we had to sign McKie just to make the trade) this year. We lose Kwame’s relief this coming summer and we are in worse fiscal shape going into next year because we need to pay some more of our players. This means Lamar has to go for peanuts. If Lamar informally agrees to sign for much less after next year I thought Buss might take a chance and keep Lamar through next year – putting us way, way over the Luxury Tax level in 08/09.

    All this supposition is based on our getting at least to the WCF this year. Otherwise, there is just too much financial bleeding to keep Lamar next year.

    Yeah, it is a bit convoluted, but that’s the way it is moneywise in the current sports enviornment.

  38. Kurt says

    32. Carter, I don’t get it either. I think Skeets and Dwyer would have made an amazing blogging team, but I guess I can understand not wanting to pay two guys full time for that (not sure how much revenue the blog creates, but probably not two full-time writers worth). But I don’t get trying to change direction (and that is what Yahoo wants to do, to be more entertainment/witty and have more edgy stuff). I think too many people see what Will has done so well at Deadspin and think that is the future of blogs and will be easy to replicate. I’m not sure it’s the future, but I know it’s hard to replicate (Will and crew are very good).

  39. exhelodrvr says

    17) Chris H

    The Grizzlies are getting two (probably late) first round picks, a raw but promising point guard, the NBA rights to a European PF/C who also has some promise, and $9M in cap relief. That hardly falls into the “unethical” range.

  40. phineas says

    espn’s reporting phx and miami are in serious discussions to send shaq to the desert for shawn marion. weird. shaq is done, but i don’t know if i like him back in our division.

  42. Kurt says

    The rule is on making up trades that the Lakers or other teams should do, discussion of serious ongoing trade talks anywhere are fair game.

    That said, while I have heard that rumor about a Shaq/Marion deal, I don’t see any link where that is being seriously talked about. That makes no sense to me, especially since the Suns said they were going to play this group until the end of the season. Where is the link?

  43. fanerman says

    Kurt, over at Dodger Thoughts, somebody said it was reported on SportsCenter.

    exhelodrvr, don’t forget that we had to take a salary cap hit to do the deal, too.

  44. phineas says

    it was “breaking news” to close sportscenter, which gave it a (possibly false) sense of importance. but i’ll be more thorough in the future, surely.

  45. chris h says

    hey guys, I’m not the one saying it was unethical, you missed my point-
    I’m saying it’s kind of funny that the rest of the league is so upset about the lakers getting this good of a deal, that they want the league to look into it as if something unethical had to have happened.
    all’s I’m saying is that we did pretty darn good if that’s how the rest of the teams feel.

  46. jellosjigglin' says

    i know this is trade spec, but why in the world would phx want shaq? why would anyone want shaq for that matter, and to give up marion for him? i think i threw up in my mouth a little. is there some kind of kerr/riles connection?

  47. Jason says

    “Jason, didn’t we just get a huge benefit from trading an expiring contract?”

    We got a huge benefit ALONG WITH additional salary. If some team wants Odom for his expiring contract, that means they have someone on the books for longer than Odom which the Lakers would be willing to take on.

    For a trade of Odom, the most realistic scenario is trading Odom where the Lakers play the role that the Grizz played when they traded Gasol. Meaning Lakers trade away large salaried talent and in return get large salary scrub along with picks from a contending team who thinks Odom would help them. This is not likely.

  48. kwame a. says

    phoenix has been winning, but they don’t look like a championship team. i think kerr knows that. i dont know if theyll do this deal, but i think they have to change their roster configuration to win it all. otherwise they are nothin more than the late 90’s early 2000s Kings. all flash, no titles, or even title apperances.

  50. Karl says

    Once again, for anyone who has to watch at work or can’t get home on time, RaptorsNation.net streams live NBA games for free.

    Anyways, it’s been five days since the trade and I’m still giddy over the thought of having Gasol.

  51. jellosjigglin' says

    unfortunately, raptorsnation.net is having problems with their nbatv stream for the game (actually the whole site is down right now).

    im debating on whether or not to peek at the espn gamecast or just try to bide my time until 5:30pst

    what are ya’ll doing?

  52. Sean P. says

    37.

    If we want to dump Lamar’s 08-09 salary than we have to trade him for expiring contracts before the upcoming trade deadline (2/21). If we wait to trade him when the window reopens late June/early July, then we will be doing so under the 08-09 salary numbers. The most we can save on Lamar’s contract for 08-09 at that point is 25% or $3.6 mil (which will be effectively $7.2 mil as we’ll be well over the luxury tax). However, since it is unlikely that we’d be trading Lamar’s expiring contract for (an)other expiring contract(s), we’d likely be taking on sizable additional salary for future years, which would also be in the luxury tax range assuming we are able to resign Bynum for the rookie max extension (will be around ~13 mil for the first year, 09-10).

    In other words, it would make more sense on a purely fiscal level to just let Lamar’s contract expire.

  54. burningjoe says

    Are you kidding me? Can you imagine Shaq trying to run with the Suns? this is just as crazy as CWebb as a Warrior. It takes Shaq 7 secodns just to get out of the Key…much less half court…getting on the block before Nash does his best Magic impression…I just dont see the sense in that for Phoniex…

    but…the other part of me says…GO Phoniex…make this happen…the West will certainly be the Lakers then.

  55. Kurt says

    If Sportscenter is reporting this as serious talks, than that is not just speculation (things we’d like to see happen) and discussing a real trade talk, which is what we should be doing. Which is to say, phineas, don’t worry. I’m just at work and didn’t see anything on ESPN.com.

    48. I agree that the Suns can’t win a title with the current roster (even if they got good matchups and got out of the West, I think they lose to Boston or Detroit. Boston in particular.) The thing is in getting someone like Shaq Kerr is blowing up what they want to do. Shaq hasn’t filled the lane on a break since 2000. Right now it seems Kerr wants one kind of team and D’Antoni wants another. That kind of thing always leads to disaster. You have to build a team to a style and have a coach that wants to execute it. I think Shaq is a disaster with the Suns.

    With the Mavs, not a bad fit, depending on who they give up. What’s left of Shaq is still an upgrade over Dampier.

  56. fanerman says

    jellosjigglin’
    I’m just watching the gamecast because I’m in norcal right now and I wouldn’t be able to watch it anyway. If I were in socal, I would just wait to watch the game on KCAL.

  59. phineas says

    Lamar is lucky to be playing right now. He’s gotten away with 2 or 3 obvious fouls. Crashing those boards though…..

  60. chris h says

    phineas, please remember that you are watching the game ahead of the rest of us, so please add at the head of you post, SPOILER ALERT.
    thanks

  61. Chise says

    SPOILER ALERT: Lamar is really aggressive tonight. Somethin like 8 boards, 8 points, and 4 or 5 assists with 3 or 4 trips to the line already. Decent defense around the basket too. Lakers aren’t playing bad but they could be playing better. Triangle looks smooth, even Gasol, just not hitting as many shots. And Kobe jammed a finger on his shooting hand.

  62. Brian Tung says

    Kwame A (48): The Kings in 2002 were a Vlade Divac harder slap (Game 4) or a FT make (Game 7) from going to the NBA Finals, where they surely would have been favorites against the Nets. They were definitely for real, not regular-season phenoms, in my opinion.

  63. phineas says

    60. Gotcha. Thought spoilers might refer to points, leads, etc., but from now on I’ll throw it out there just to be safe. Still getting used to the delay.

  65. kwame a. says

    62-You could say the Suns were a Robert Horry hip-check away from a title. bottom line, neither team has gotten it done, and theres a window for these things. when kings lost in ’02 they thought eventually they’d win. 2 years later they were broken up. Windows are small and the suns is closing

  66. Warren Wee Lim says

    Less than 4mins to go and guess who is the only starter to not be in double figures… Yay!

  72. fanerman says

    SPOILER
    From the post-game interview, Kobe is deliriously happy about having Gasol on the team. He also has an injury to his finger (he said he couldn’t feel anything with the finger). Anyway, I’ve never seen Kobe so happy. He’s “Homer in the land of chocolate dancing with the chocolate bunnies” happy.

  73. sfJayp says

    SPOILER:

    ear to ear. wow. soooooo nice. this is going to be a NICE rest of the season.

    My favorite part? I feel like because of all the struggle in the past few years we’re a real team. Everyone on this team knows what it’s like to struggle together as a group (even if Pau’s experience was on another team).

    AWESOME.

  74. phineas says

    SPOILER

    I can just see those post-game quotes from Kobe plastered all over the place tomorrow. And that doesn’t bother me one bit.

  75. silly bitch says

    SPOILER:

    Kobe, about how good it feels to win with only 6 points, “You have NO idea”

    Pau, will you marry me? Anyone who can make Kobe THAT happy wins my heart!

  76. 81 Witness says

    LOL…. Vlad fnally landed on Earth too! It’s a miracle!

    His defense has really picked up these last two games.

  77. Warren Wee Lim says

    Now imagine those smiles when Drew comes back…

    Its not just knee-jerk but I believe this is a real team – notch better than Dallas and Phoenix and up to par with the aging Spurs.

    Kurt, not to ruin the moment or anything, but, can we discuss the Lakers Financial Position? Craig and reed got it going early but I caught up with the comments on game time so I did not say a thing. Maybe we could do it in between the Atlanta and Orlando games…

  79. 81 Witness says

    Kwame Brown: 16 minutes, 4 Pts, 3 Rebs, 3 TOs, 3 Fouls.

    Javaris Crittenton: 8 min, 5 Pts, 1 Reb

    Memphis lost at home to the Bucks…

    Pau Gasol: 35 minutes, 24 pts, 12 rebs, 4 assists, 2 TOs, 1 steal.

    Advantage: Lakers

  80. kwame a. says

    81 Witness- Vlad’s passing has also been great, he’s making the extra pass, especially when he’s hot. Phil is really showing he knows who does what, and he’s pushin the right buttons.

  82. kwame a. says

    79-Why did Pau look so comfortable out there. Wow, and Odom can play a whole new role, focused on attacking one on one matchups, he got 14 free throws tonite. Wow. I hope Kobe is ok!

  84. from pau s hometown says

    That s the first 20/10/5 FG 60%(aprox) of a lot to come.
    You choosed the right guy.Add Bynum and Kobe at his usual level and sky s the limit¡¡¡
    GO LAKERS GO¡and congratulations PAU

  86. laughing hard says

    82 — Lamar played really well tonight, the interior passing between him and Pau was something to see!

  87. chibi says

    Vlad looks like he put on some muscle. His arms are ripped. Maybe that’s why he isn’t shying away from driving to the hoop.

  90. Ali says

    There is just some intangible electricity about the Lakers now. The way they play together, the way they’re having fun, the way Pau yells LET’S GO after every nice play just adds to the joyful optimism. Its really amazing, its a hard feeling to describe but you can see it in the face of every Laker fan and the play of every Laker.

  91. kwame a. says

    Kobe is playing straight TEAM basketball. Its beautiful, because if teams try to stop him he’ll cut you up passing. If teams try to choke off our shooters, he cuts them up by attacking the basket. Its real dominant basketball, it’s like nothing Kobe has ever exhibited

  92. from pau s hometown says

    Here in Spain we used to call him E.T,because without the beard he looks a lot like the creature in Spielberg s film and also because a player of 7,0 that can play C,PF and(here in Spain when he was young)even of SF must be from another planet.(The Grizz made a hugh mistake trying to turn him in a traditional center)
    If they have respected his original play,today he would another Nowitzky.(But more friendly and less arrogant than Dirk)

  95. DY says

    Just came back from the game…impressive cadre of Lakers supporters! It looked like Pau and the Lakers bench had the makings of good chemistry. The whole crowd was sort of waiting for Kobe to do his thing, but I could tell his first and only objective was to get Pau involved…mission accomplished.

    I really love how Pau opens the floor up for everyone, especially for Fish. It was also odd seeing Pau get interviewed center court, with Kobe doing the minor interview. I REALLY hope Kobe has grown up and won’t resent Pau and Bynum’s ascendency. Other than that, what a great game. My wife was at the game and said, “do you love Pau more than me?” I actually paused for a few seconds…

  96. desus32 says

    Another Darius?…my name has been taken. I am not #89…

    Watching Pau bury 10 ft. jumpers off that high screen and roll was like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Kobe really adjusted his game to fit with Pau’s strengths. He set him up beautifully time and time again for him to get easy buckets. This was a tremendous start to incorporating Pau….man. It honestly exceeded all my expectations. And Kobe’s excitement in the post game interview (NBA TV) was really great to see. You can tell that he sees the possibilities…after all the disappointments the last few seasons, from Rudy T to first round fish food for Phoenix he knows that he has his chance again.

    I can’t wait for the next game.

  97. Lamar Odom is back! says

    Pau looked like he’d been playing in the Lakers for the past 3 seasons!!!!!!!! What a great addition to this team!!! It was great to see him make such great baskets, not drop balls, and make great passes!!! It really brought a smile to my face!!!! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I watched the game on KCAL and they interviewed Pau after the game. Kobe came around and said something to Pau with a great big smile. I didn’t catch what he said but I knew it was a good sign. Then, in the background, you could see Kobe giving an interview with his back to the KCAL camera. He was nodding his head repeatedly. You can tell he’s loving this team just by his body language. Oh My God!!!!!!!! What a great time to be a fan!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And LO looks so much more relaxed than before. It seems like he has really benefited from the trade. Maybe he was worried that he would be traded and could not play with a clear head. Now he looks like he can play! Rebound king!!!

    One more thing, I HEART RONNY!!!!!!!!! Sammy, I didn’t see your sign!!!!!!!!

  99. George says

    For everyone who has been saying Lamar should be on the block now, just take a quick review at the game he played today, and think before you speak.

  100. Craig W. says

    Finance:
    The Lakers are over the Lux Tax level by about the difference between Kwame’s salary and Gasol’s salary + their previous position. The lost Crit, but gained McKee so that is somewhat a wash.

    For this year they therefore lose $2M that they would get for being under the cap, plus double the $ over the cap because of the penalty.

    1) Next year they no longer have Kwame’s $9M off the books, but they add the difference between Kwame’s salary this year and Gasol’s escalating salary for next year.
    2) Also, they have Sasha, Ariza, & Turiaf (I believe) they have to pay or lose.
    3) If they renegotiate Bynum’s contract, it will take effect the following year – when Lamar’s contract is supposed to come off the books.

    This is where Lamar’s contract is such a logjam. As was mentioned above, if we trade him this summer we will get back an equal salary. There may be some retired loopholes like Keith VanHorn in Dallas ($15M), but I am not entirely sure how it would work. Then Lamar would be in Dallas with no compensation – not the best situation.

    This means next year we will be substantially farther over the cap than we are this year and Lamar’s salary would only get us back to even if we let him walk at the end of next year. My point was that Buss might be more amenable to Lamar agreeing to a substantially smaller salary after next year. Of course, that agreement would have to be totally under the table and is considered illegal by the league. Then again, look what happened to that type of situation in Cleveland with Carlos Boozer.

    Unless Buss is almost assured of making the NBA finals, it is hard to imagine a scenario where we would be able to keep Lamar after next year. I would just cost too much money in tax penalties.

  101. kwame a. says

    George- I said earlier, as long as Bynum is out, Odom aint goin nowhere. He provides consistent rebounding, and on a team where he is the 3rd or 4th option, he will see one on one coverage. After hitting a few jumpers last game, he came out with some confidence tonite and attacked the whole with purpose. The fact that hes been makin his free throws these last 2 weeks makes him even more comfortable doin that. I think the only question is where he fits when Bynum and Gasol are in at the same time, but thats not a problem for the forseeable future

  102. Cary D says

    96 – we play another ‘playoff’ team tomorrow, the 20-24 Atlanta Hawks! Welcome the east. Houston is a lottery team in the west, the 4th seed in the East. Yikes!

    Hawks definitely scare me more than the Nets. The 2 Josh’s will challenge us. Josh Smith really is on his way to being a star.

    Hopefully Kobe’s finger will be better, cause those Hawks fans love it when Kobe comes to town. Last year, he had the whole arena buzzing. Crossing my fingers he can do it again. He really is a rock star on the road.

    First time ever rooting for Pau. He is easy to root for! He is just so skilled. His ability to finish and hit the open shot is just a thing of beauty. Lamar also looked fantastic.

    Next 5 games – Hawks, Magic, Heat, Bobcats, and T-Wolves. Time for our ‘A’ game to continue. Would be a huge boost to go to the All-star break closing this road trip out with a bang.

  104. John says

    “the Lakers also still have the rights to Ron Harper, Karl Malone, Shammond Williams, Horace Grant, Mitch Richmond, John Salley and, Brian Shaw to use in any future trade. As we said at the time of the trade, a lot of teams keep the rights to retired guys for just this type of situation”

    Does anyone know what is the max dollar limit to signing one or all of these guys then trading them?
    Hypothetically, could the Lakers sign Harper and Horace to 1 year $4M contracts and trade them to Memphis for M.Miller, assuming both teams were down?

    Whatever amount for whatever player?

  105. Gr8dunk says

    Report: Shaq could be traded by Heat
    =======================
    • McCALLUM Suns seem willing to take risk
    — Shaquille O’Neal is prepared for the Miami Heat to trade him, a confidant of the 14-time All-Star center told The Associated Press on Tuesday night.

    O’Neal’s associate, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to reveal anything publicly, indicated a move could be imminent.

    “Shaq thinks something will happen,” the associate said.

    The Miami Herald reported earlier Tuesday that the Heat are in “serious and ongoing” trade negotiations with the Phoenix Suns, and the South Florida Sun-Sentinel said the deal could occur “within 48 hours.” A Heat spokesman said the team had no comment, and several Suns officials didn’t immediately return phone calls from The AP.

    The Herald report said the Suns would send Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to Miami in exchange for O’Neal, who is averaging a career-low 14.2 points and has been sidelined for the past two weeks by a lingering hip injury.

  106. Cary D says

    Can we stop talking finances and start talking basketball for awhile. I think sports fans have a never-ending case of ADD.

    I could care less if we are over luxury tax this year and next if the owner agreed to it.

    Unless we hear rumors of further trades, nothing will happen financially until the offseason.

    Enjoy these moments, they are oh so fleeting. We just fleeced a team for a top 20 player who is in his prime. As the mastercard commercials say, that is” priceless!”

  107. chris h says

    how many fans do you think have this huge grin pasted on their faces after tonight? (in the millions)
    I know I do as I am writing this post.
    I think this was the most FUN I’ve had watching a game this year.
    as many commentors have already said, watching Pau work with the rest of the team was brilliant, and you can see that he and Kobe are going to be a tough ‘pick and roll’ combo as they get more familiar, heck they are already in their first game together!
    wow, is all I can say…wow!

  108. The Dude Abides says

    Pau was being interviewed by John Ireland on the court after the game and Kobe came up behind him and yelled “Me gusta!” LOL. Gotta love it. Hope Kobe’s knuckle isn’t hurt too badly. Pau is an excellent passer, has an excellent first step, and can both pick and pop and pick and roll. He can also catch a lob pass and lay it in.

  110. Warren Wee Lim says

    Craig on Finance:

    The Laker payroll (to be more specific) is at 72m this year and 75m next year.

    I would therefore go on a limb and assume that the Lakers will not be doing anything more this year before we could see how Lamar can mesh with our new big 3. It is therefore 4-5m above the tax line for us, meaning 10m in effect. However, with the Lakers getting the hype, they could very well make up for the 10m easily by going deep into the playoffs and the sale of Pau Gasol merchandise. Safe to say this year is secured.

    Next year is the crossroad. We will be sporting 75m on our payroll and that without Ronny, Sasha, DJ, Coby and possibly Mihm and Ariza with their player options. In this regard, re-upping Ronny is essential for me. He is one of those intangible guys that we could use come injury time. The problem is, we would be dipping further into the tax line approaching the 80m mark. We also cannot trade Lamar for anyone unless there was a traded player exception or we trade them for immediate cap space from teams that have the cash to spend. Otherwise, even if you do trade him, the best you could net is 2-3m in savings, which as Craig said, is worth 4-6.

    Mitch said in an interview that there is no reason for Lamar to think that he cannot be in here for the long haul. I think a significant pay cut will be imminent for him (unless some team overpays for a 3rd option), still it makes a lot of sense if we could get him by the 8m range before some other team does get him for the same amount. But thats 2009. And we are discussing what-to-do-with-Lamar in 2008. Remember, only very few things have the luxury of having a 4th option like him who thrives on a team in which he does not have to score. He then eventually does.

  111. Laker Pauer says

    Hey guys,

    I’m a long time lurker and this is by far my favorite Laker blog. Congratulations on having a really intelligent and insightful community here.

    I have to say that I haven’t been this excited about a laker team since 2004. Gasol had an amazing start tonight. I thought he would be pretty quiet until he got acclimated, but he looks like he’ll be productive immediately.

    As far as the Shaq to Pheonix thing, I don’t get how it would make sense for Pheonix. Miami gets cap relief, but Pheonix just seems like it would have its up-tempo game completely dragged down. I could see him being used for defensive substitutions, but his salary isn’t worth it.

    In any case… I hope Pheonix is playing exceptionally well come playoff time. I don’t want them to have any excuses. Anyways, keep up the great work Kurt and company!

  112. Ali says

    I think the reason Kobe is willing to get others involved and share the ball is because he is 100% sure that he will get the credit for this team’s success.

    Also, it looks like the trade for Pau might actually be better than what we thought it was..not only did we get Pau on the cheap, but we might have scared Phoenix into changing their whole team identity!

    It was only a matter of time before they moved Marion, but for Shaq? Really?

  113. j. d. hastings says

    So this Shaq thing looks like its going through. I have to agree with everyone else about his fitting into their running attack, but I still wish this wouldn’t happen. With a point guard like Nash, even half a shaq is dangerous. Maybe he doesn’t run with them, but when they have to perform in the half court, you have to respect them. I definitely won’t miss Marion, but I don’t think this makes the Suns worse. I thought they wanted to be under the cap though.

    Marion and Wade is a great core to build around. The Heat have a long way to go, but this would be a great move for them.

  114. George says

    I really don’t see any validity in concerns as to how will Lamar fit in with both Bynum and Gasol in a purely basketball sense. I think he will be completely comfortable being more of a role player. If there is even the slightest gripe over minutes, there is Kobe, Fisher, and Jackson who are able to offer him a sense of perspective. Lamar is a guy who wants to win, and do so at the highest level. He isn’t chasing stat lines as an avenue to the hall of fame or anything. I am sure he is fully aware that the Lakers are gearing up for something special, and probably has no interest in disturbing that goal.

    Finances are a whole different part, and while none of us work in that department for the Lakers, I really don’t see a point in mulling over possible trade scenarios in order to “adjust the books” so to speak. The people who do that job and the individuals who have money at stake will figure out how to address this. But from a basketball perspective, Odom is a great fit, especially as a #4.

  115. kwame a. says

    George-What concerns me about LO with Gasol and Bynum is shooting. With those players and Kobe you need to have reliable jump shooters around them. With Fish, Farmar, Sasha and Vlad, I don’t know if Lamar is best with that group.

    As far as Shaq. In some weird way, I wont lie, it scares the hell out of me. Totally understand Phoenix making a move, but this one is wild, it will do 2 things. 1)it’ll keep and add butts in the seats, raise their profile and will pay for itself in a monetary sense.2)it makes the suns more versatile, this is a move that makes them far more formidable agaisnt s.a. and dallas and us and utah.

  116. Goo says

    Incredible trade, not even in the sense of a Pau-like steal or anything..but wow. Could the Lakers vs. Suns rivalry have gotten any more heated? This is ridiculous

  117. TCO says

    Im pretty intrigued as to how the D’Antono-Kerr relationship has/will factor(ed) unto this trade. Does this mark the end of D’Antoni?

    I welcome Shaq back in the West. He does not look very nimble and his moves seem… heavy. He does not possess the same foowork in the low post we were used to seeing from him. I dont see how he can handle the suns up-tempo offense….

    Marion was a huge X-factor too. He was pretty solid shooter and had the potential to throw daggers at opponenets. (I for one will not miss his 3’s gainst us) If they are going to have Amare at the 4, and Shaq at the 5, it might take away the effectiveness of Barbosa as well since he’s quite good with the ball in creating his own shot. Overall, I cannot see how this makes any sense for Phoenix.

  118. hertagnism says

    Odom needs a nickname. After tonight’s game where he methodically attacked and literally elbowed RJ, I suggest “The Hitman” since we have “The Machine” already.

    Regarding the Shaq trade: The Suns are really desperate if they’re willing to send Marion away for an aging and declining Shaq. More props to Kupchak because it’s almost clear this trade resulted from the shockwaves of Gasol to the Lakers. They got desperate and sent their 2nd best player to the Heat and got back a Hall of Famer on the downside. Some may argue that Amare is the 2nd best on the Suns after Nash, but Marion does so many things and embodies versatility that I have to believe Marion is the 2nd best player on that team.

    Things will really get interesting now if the trade is actually going to go through. The Suns technically haven’t accepted yet and ESPN Ric Bucher is reporting that it has so… well you know.

  119. Brian Tung says

    Kwame A (65): I’m not disputing that they didn’t get it done; I’m disputing that they’re “all flash.” That’s all. I think they were definitely a strong playoff team, and not really like today’s Phoenix Suns.

  120. Kurt says

    115. kwame a., I’m not sure that Shaq really makes the Suns a lot more versatile because it cuts to the core of what they want to do. Yes he gives them some half court offense, but they are without one closer on the break and Shaq’s defense is toast if he has to step out from under the basket much. And, won’t he kill the motion in their offense. I’m not sold. And, if you’re trying to save cap space, don’t you just let Marion walk as opposed to bring in someone who makes $20 mil a year for two years?

  121. Brian Tung says

    Regarding today’s game…

    Wow, what a debut. In my head, I know that he’s not going to play like that every night, but damn, he got it done.

    Does Phil have a problem with players getting career highs? Every time a player looks like he’s about to bust a new high, Phil takes him out and sits him for 6, 8 minutes. How many times this season has Fish scored in the mid-to-high 20’s?

  122. laughing hard says

    The Shaq to Phoenix trade is bizarre, but the more I think about it, the more I kind of see the logic to it–hear me out:

    I don’t see Amare playing the 4 (except in weird situations where the Suns may have to match up against two 7-footers, hmmmm…), but Shaq would make a great back-up center in situations where the offense is already set. Even at his age, he can still clog the lane on defense and force most teams to double up on him on offense, which will open everything up on the outside for Nash, Barbosa, and the rest of Phoenix’s shooters. In terms of losing Marion’s offense, I don’t see that as too much of a problem either–his outside shot was okay, but Phoenix has much better shooters, and Shaq will probably make up his 15-ish points pretty easily even playing somewhat limited minutes.

    Defense is where I see this making the most sense. Marion, for all his explosiveness, was always undersized at 6-7, and often found himself defending at the 4 spot. By putting Shaq in at the low post, it keeps Phoenix from having to try to match up man-to-man with Marion guarding someone who has him by 3-4 inches. That role won’t require a whole lot of mobility on Shaq’s part, since any big who can shoot from 10 feet out could be swarmed by the rest of Phoenix.

    Plus, Marion was not getting along very well with the Suns’ management and coaching staff, and they were paying him a lot of money for what he was doing–bringing in anyone else would have to look like an improvement from that standpoint.

    In the end, what I find the funniest about this: if it comes down to another playoff series between the Lakers and the Suns, we’ll get to see the Lakers hacking Shaq…

  123. Goo says

    Is this how Boston felt when Roger Clemens came to the Yankees? It was one thing when he was on the other side of the country, but now he’s on our biggest rival. Sorry Shaq, I was ok when you were playing in front of Quarter-Filled stadiums, but now it’s official that it’s over between us…

    I do still think he has something left in the tank, he’s still putting up 14/8 with 2 blocks even on a ridiculously down/unmotivated/injury-filled year…he just needs to be a defensive presence inside with Amare and catch some lobs from Nash in the half court..every break they run is 3 on 2 anyways and I think Marion’s skills were just too redundant with that team (mostly because of Amare)

  124. Matt M. says

    The thing that makes the least sense about this trade in my eyes is the incredible lack of depth the Suns would have after it…

    Shaq is injured and can only play the 5; Marion is healthy and can play 2-4 and guard just about any position on the court.

    Take a look at the depth chart:

    Nash/Barbosa
    Bell
    Hill/Diaw/Piatkowski?
    Amare/Skinner?
    Shaq/Sean Marks?

    For all intensive purposes, they’d be 7 deep and one of those 7 would be Shaq. Combine that with issues about playing style, losing Marion’s intangibles, etc…and this is a head scratcher for sure.

    (Yet somehow I also find myself secretly fearing this trade, for whatever reason….)

  125. The Purple & Gold says

    I think the Shaq trade was partly because of us getting Gasol, but it was also because of Shawn Marion coming up for an extension and the Suns did not want to give him one.
    Remember that Marion wanted to be traded during the off-season.

    Even though Shaq has 2 more full years left on his big contract, I think this deal was made so they would not have to go over the luxury tax threshold for more than a couple of years.

    Also, Nash isn’t getting any younger and I think the Suns realize that the run and gun offensive will not get them into the Finals.

    For me, this trade feels more like Webber going to Warriors than us getting Gasol. Unless Shaq’s hip injury improves and he suddenly becomes a 15-10 player again, then that is how I will view this trade.

  126. fanerman says

    Matt M., I’m with you. While I don’t think Shaq will fit with the Suns, I’m still afraid of this trade. Maybe because I don’t see Shaq so often so I don’t know how much his game has declined and my memory of him is him still in his prime as a Laker.

  127. Jason says

    While I don’t think this makes the Suns a better team, I think people are underestimating how effective a team can be when Shaq is on the floor with 3 point shooters.

  128. jellosjigglin' says

    i feel like im on the same page with everyone here about the shaq trade. shaq on the suns seems like a huge mismatch of style & skill, an even bigger mismatch than c-webb on the warriors. there’s no way he can keep up with them running; are they going to play half-court offense now? are they going to run/dribble down the court and then wait for shaq to join them?

    he may clog the paint on defense, but he also is going to clog the paint on offense. whereas when marion was down low and another sun drives to the paint marion was able to drift out a bit and knock down a 16 footer, or even further out for a 3, shaq has no range. shaq will still be stationed in the paint, allowing his defender to help without worrying about leaving his man. he doesnt seem to have much ups left to throw down alley oops either, for that matter.

    but still, like others have mentioned, for some reason the trade scares me. i think its mostly because it looks like a bad move and the suns organization can’t be that stupid can they?

    maybe they’re just hitting the panic button and they will soon find out they made a $20 million dollar a year mistake. we can only hope..

  129. TCO says

    What shooters? At this point in his career, Shaq does not need to be double teamed. Nash’s penetration opens up 3 point oppurtunities much more effectively than would Shaq.

  130. AndrewT says

    First off, wow. Gasol is good. If that’s his first game in the triangle, I’m pretty excited. The defense wasn’t perfect, but he altered shots enough to result in blown layups and kept them out of the paint. His rebounding was also better than I thought, I can’t wait to see how the Lakers will clean class with Bynum in there.

    Onto the Shaq trade. I’m psyched about this move for the Suns because it means the Western conference is about to get less tough.

    1. Marion puts up better numbers than Shaq in almost every category. He gets almost 3 rebounds per game better, about the same in points, but Marion is usually pretty injury free and can run the court. Oh yeah, Marion can hit free throws.

    2. Shaq’s Injuries – Dude’s got busted hips, aching back, creaky knees. He’s not doing those heat pad commercials for no reason. He’s in good shape this season, but he’s still limited to 25 minutes a game. Phoenix isn’t terribly deep already, I don’t see how this helps. Shaq’s known for getting into foul trouble, if he gets into foul trouble the Suns are going to be severely underhanded on the floor. If they play Shaq off the bench with Amare at the 5, they’ll have that gaping hole where Marion used to be.

    3. Shaq’s Offense. Shaq’s offense is still good and you should still respect it. But Marion runs the floor better and puts up more points. However, offense was never the Sun’s problem anyway. Shaq doesn’t really represent a change. If anything, it’s worse because I don’t see him running the Sun’s pace. If the Sun’s slow down their game to accommodate them, their primary strength (their offense) is going to suffer even if Shaq gets easy baskets.

    4. Interior Presence. On the defensive end, he’s really more like Kwame Brown. He’s no longer mobile enough to box out fast guards so in essence he’s basically like a tree trunk taking up space.

    Position is important, but it didn’t help the Lakers much, it’s not helping out the Heat, and more or less irrelevant in a matchup with the Lakers because they’re still going to need to double team Kobe, Gasol, or Bynum. Also given Shaq’s stamina, you have to wonder how long he can muscle opposing centers. Did I mention that Marion actually gets almost 3 rebounds more a game than Shaq?

    5. The Future – The dude’s rapidly declining. Taking on Shaq’s bad contract is a gigantic risk for the Suns. They have maybe one or two seasons to do get it done before Shaq is going to be more of a liability than an asset (if he’s not there already). Then they’re stuck with an aged Steve Nash, a center who doesn’t play defense and has bad knees, and the Diesel on empty. Ouch.

    6. The Sun’s System. This is pretty big to me. It’s obvious Shaq can’t play at the Sun’s pace, so they’re going to slow it down for him. Consequently, they’re going to score a lot less points. They’re defensive weaknesses are going to be more exposed if they can’t score as many points. They’re going to switch from a system they’ve built around for the last three years in midseason to a structured half-court game? And they’re taking this risk in the middle of the season with the best record in the conference? Yikes.

  131. jellosjigglin' says

    here’s the numbers…

    MARION (age 29)
    15.8pts, 9.9rebs, 2.1asts, 2.02stls, 1.49blks
    .713 FT%
    .594 TS%
    PER 20.25

    SHAQ (age 35)
    14.2pts, 7.8rebs, 1.4asts, .59stls, 1.66blks,
    .482 FT%
    .575 TS%
    PER 18.17

  132. chris h says

    #121, Brian, didn’t Kobe go for 81 while PJ was coach?
    how about that stretch of 50 t games last year, too?

  133. jellosjigglin' says

    i feel like im on the same page with everyone here about the shaq trade… shaq on the suns seems like a huge mismatch of style & skill, an even bigger mismatch than c-webb on the warriors. there’s no way he can keep up with them running; are they going to play half-court offense now? are they going to run/dribble down the court and then wait for shaq to join them?

    he may clog the paint on defense, but he also is going to clog the paint on offense. whereas when marion was down low and another sun drives to the paint marion was able to drift out a bit and knock down a 16 footer, or even further out for a 3, shaq has no range. shaq will still be stationed in the paint, allowing his defender to help without worrying about leaving his man. he doesnt seem to have much ups left to throw down alley oops either, for that matter.

    but still, like others have mentioned, for some reason the trade scares me. i think its mostly because it looks like a bad move and the suns organization can’t be that stupid can they?

    maybe they’re just hitting the panic button and they will soon find out they made a $20 million dollar a year mistake. we can only hope..

  134. JONESONTHENBA says

    The reason the Heat are so bad is not really because of the decline of Shaq. It’s mostly because they don’t have any defenders or any shooter surrounding Shaq and Wade. Someone said it above, but Shaq surrounded by shooters and cutters is an entirely different player.

  135. Rob L. says

    My hat, it has three corners. Three corners has my hat, motherf***er!

    This game was a beautiful thing to watch. Hard fought all the way.

    Love Gasol.

    Ronny is a special guy. I’ve seen it more and more as he’s been forced into heavy 5 duty this season.

    Luke Walton looked frustrated. Hope he can shake the funk.

  136. The Purple & Gold says

    The main question is does the Shaq trade necessarily mean that the Suns are going to play a more conventional game instead of the run and gun offense that has made them so popular.

    Also, does anyone here know if Shaq has lost his ability to guard the post? I have league pass but because of the Heat’s horrible play, I have not seen much of them.

  137. AndrewT says

    That was the Shaq of old. Now he’s just old. Here’s the quick breakdown.

    The last thing the Suns should do is slow their offense down. In fact, they should speed it up. Lots of teams this year have shown that they can play the Sun’s pace and even exceed it. Think the Lakers when Bynum was in the game. We basically ran almost at their pace, got as many easy basket as they did, except we killed them on rebounds and defense.

    Take away the Suns speed and high powered offense and their weaknesses become more apparent. They don’t play bad defense because they put up 110 points, but slow it down and that defense becomes questionable. Don’t forget, Marion rebounds and aside from muscling players plays better defense than Shaq. The Suns are also not terribly deep. If Shaq comes back and can’t play more than 20-25 minutes a game, the Suns are going to have a gigantic hole in their lineup.

    This deal is such a good thing for the Lakers. It shouldn’t even be compared to the Gasol trade. We traded for a seven footer with All-Star talent and didn’t even give up any one of our TOP TEN players.

    The Suns are going to trade their 2nd or 3rd best player for a guy who plays limited minutes, doesn’t fit into their system, and might actually be worse.

    As a Laker fan, I approve this trade. I wanted to see the Lakers stomp a legit Suns team, but as we still have the Spurs and Celtics to deal with I’m not going to complain if we butcher a handicapped Suns team.

  138. Travis Y. says

    First of all great Laker win. Everyone contributed and we look like a well oiled machine on offense. Defense on the pick and roll and against the penetrators of the league will be a key to how well the Lakers wrap up the year as Tex noted.

    On the shaq trade…
    When we gave him up after the 2004 season I knew he was going to prove the Lakers wrong for choosing Kobe. So he got in shape and regained that pep in his step.

    one championship and 16 years of NBA punishment later shaq looks decrepid. I am so glad the suns picked up shaq, this totally changes the focus of the team and will take them more than this season to gel. I agree with you Kurt, it does appear like Kerr is getting his voice heard and is influencing the team to a more traditional DEFENSIVE approach and with nash getting older, i’m not sure this suns team makes that much noise.

    Also in Bill Simmons’ podcast with Kerr some months ago, Kerr stressed the importance of team chemistry while he was on the bulls and the irratic blazers. with the cancer that marion was the team dynamic is going to be much stronger. shaq is a lovable guy and can help that locker room. But i doubt that transcends onto the basketball court, even though i would love to see a suns vs. lakers playoff series where we send them home. lakers 2008…IT’S FANNNNNNNNNNNNTASTIC.

  139. chibi says

    Risky move for the Suns. I see how this gives them a potent half-court attack. But there are so many variables(durability, fouls, ft%) when it comes to Shaq it is hard to figure if this trade improves them. I don’t know that the risk is worth the reward. It’s a huge gamble.

    According to Ludden’s report, the Shaq-for-Marion deal was prompted by the acquisition of Gasol.

    I think Gasol is going to be tested by Stoudamire slashing to the hoop. We’ll see just how adequate a defender he is when they matchup.

    Against other clubs, I think they’ve addressed their glaring weakness: low post defense. But I think the Lakers still have the edge. I’m eager to see what their transition defense is going to be like with Shaq in the lineup. Will they actually slow the game down against teams like the Lakers and GS?

    They’d better have a plan.

  140. carter blanchard says

    Some miscellaneous thoughts:

    – “Kobe-on-Super-Tuesday Happy” is going to be the new standard for really freaking happy. And that’s where I’m at right now.

    -Huge bummer that Radman got the haircut this offseason. The trio of goofy, floppy-haired Euros could have been a beautiful, beautiful thing. Next year maybe, next year.

    -Pau’s passing is going to be HUGE. He looked so comfortable on the high post, and seemed to make the right choice every time.

    -I’m kind of confused about how Pau managed 6 offensive boards. He doesn’t put himself in a good position on that end and doesn’t seem to work for them, but I guess the moral is with that length a few balls will come your way over the course of the game.

    -Fisher should be wide open in the corner for the rest of the season. How can you even afford to guard him anymore? Especially with our ball movement looking as crisp as it does.

    -Luke seems to realize he’s quickly becoming expendable, and he looked kind of desperate out there today to prove otherwise (unsuccessfully). I feel bad for him, but if we can play guys like Lamar and Pau who can move the ball as well as he does AND do about 500 things he can’t, I don’t see him having much a place on this roster unless he can start hitting better from outside.

    -I really, really love this team.

    -Finally, on this Shaq business: absolutely hysterical. I just don’t see this working at all. No clue why they felt that desperate (no teams out West look that intimidating; as good as we can be, there’s still a lot of unanswered questions about health and making it all work together). Aside from the obvious concerns about Shaq being able to run the floor, this will wreak havoc on their defense. Without Marion pressuring the opposition’s best player and creating the turnovers he does, the defensive liabilities of Nash and Amare will be way more exposed. Maybe the most egregious thing about this whole deal is that even if Shaq can come anywhere close to his recent glory as Jones optimistically suggests as possible, throwing it in to Shaq and letting him bang away is a complete waste of Nash’s gifts. Kudos on the other hand to Miami for making next year and the year after seem a lot more hopeful all of a sudden.

  142. gosujim says

    Gasol just rulez.

    Awesome debut for the spanish star as a Laker.

    Kobe Bryant VERY HAPPY with his new teammate, wich is important also.

    I can’t wait to see more games of the New Lakers.

    GO LAKERS!!!!

  143. Pacio says

    You know what really doesn’t make sense about this whole Shaq business? The Suns already had a guy old big guy they could plug in the 5 spot. Remember Kurt Thomas? But the Suns were so worried about paying the luxury tax they gave him away. Not like Pau for Kwame giving away, they literally gave him away for a trade exemption they have no intention of passing on. So what, now it’s ok for them to be saddled with Shaq’s contract? Amare and Shaq really could give Curry and Randolph a run for their money for worst interior defensive duo. They must be drinking gallons of the crazy juice in Phoenix.

  144. Xavier says

    You guys are very excited about this game..
    You have to, Pau played great ball, Lamar was doing dirty job and fish scored almost everything

    but…

    I gotta tell you that this was an AWFULL defensive game!
    I didn’t have fun seing the nets insulting us by moving the ball all arround without even oposition.
    Every single pick&roll situation was a change of matchups for the lakers (which carter took advantage of it) and even defending the man off-ball they switched defenses at the indirect screen!
    thats sick…

    I’m sorry, this should be a day to be happy, seeing that even with Kobe scoring only 6 points and without bynum we are winning by 15, that Gasol made the best first laker game he would ever dream, but I can’t… I just can’t be happy for the game with that D

  145. Bill Bridges says

    Now all we need to do is to Sign and Trade, Ron Harper, Karl Malone, MItch Richmond, and John Salley to Miami for Marion….

  146. Emma says

    That little factoid about the Lakers having rights to those guys is hilarious. I don’t know about you guys but I miss seeing Harp on the floor. I bet a starting lineup of Ron Harper (G), Karl Malone (F), Shammond Williams (G), Mitch Richmond (F), John Salley (C), and Brian Shaw (coach) could still beat Miami.

  147. ryan says

    Shaq to the Suns. I don’t know what to think about that trade. Good trade for Miami, if Marion opts out they save a lot of money. Not sure about the Suns though. I mean shaq doesn’t fit their style at all, and slowing the pace down will not help Stoudamire, I think his production will drop. Plus Shaq has been pretty bad this year.

    I think its funny though.

  148. exhelodrvr says

    Not including Shaq, the Suns still have 5 players in double figures.

    This allows Stoudamire to play PF. (Gasol, for one will have problems with him, and Bynum will have to concentrate on Shaq.)

    The Suns have shown that their style of play is not optimum for winning a title.

    Marion was unhappy.

    Shaq can play 20-25 minutes a game at a pretty high level if he wants to, and this will re-invigorate him, at least in the short term.

    This will open things up for the outside shooters, and Shaq is an excellent passer.

  149. Jeff Jones says

    The only way this trade will benefit the Suns is if Shaq plays minimal minutes. He will slow the Offense down which will take away some of the edge Nash uses to get the other guys going because we all know they can’t get their shots on their own. He will definitely benefit them against the Spurs because they always seem to slow the Suns down to a slower half court game. I think this trade will affect Amare the most because he will get less touches.

  150. DY says

    Lakers fans, do not fret about Shaq! If anything, this move demonstrates Phoenix’s desperation as well as dissension between D’Antoni and GM Kerr. I think Phoenix will miss Marion’s underrated 3 point shooting, and will definitely miss his hustle and defense.

    The Suns know that their window of opportunity is two years or so. Nash and Shaq will be close to retiring by the end of that time period, and if they are still hanging around the league, will be pretty old by then. Let’s remember that the Lakers essentially have a good five year window of opportunity to win championships, and Bynum will hopefully have an opportunity to take it to the legendary but lethargic Shaq.

    It’ll be good to see Shaq and Kobe face each other down at the very least, four times a year and maybe the playoffs. And by the way, not to curse the Suns players, but Hill, Amare, and Shaq, are all injury prone. They basically gave up one of their most durable players. If anyone of these players go down, we’ll be seeing a lot of Piatkowski and Strawberry, which strikes little fear in my heart.

    Or, Shaq may simply fail his physical and all this was for naught.

  151. exhelodrvr says

    Most ofthe Suns scoring is not done on fast breaks; Shaq will be a significant addition to their half court offense, which has been one of their weaknesses in the playoffs.

  152. Craig W. says

    For a two year window, the PHX-Shaq trade makes sense.

    Also, I think the Heat have really recovered from the Morning/O’Neal decline this year. They get their PG in Banks and he has some defensive spunk. They get an all-star SG in Marion to pair with Wade so their shooting worries go away. Their front court is junk, but it wasn’t getting anything done anyway. They get their 3-pt shooter in Marion. Suddenly they are an up tempo team with some pop for the rest of the season. If this works as well as I think, Marion will want to stay. The only problem is they still will have 2 $20M contracts – yikes!

  153. Rasuli says

    Some of you asked about a nickname for Pau. A fellow spaniard said he already has one: E.T. Please do not name him P-Gas or something like that.

    Now you have a glimpse of real Pau. He is a PF with the body and speed of a SF, the IQ and game vision of a PG, but with the arm range of a 7-4 (look carefully pictures where he is jumping with another 7 footer to see how longer his arms are).

    But the main point, ahead of his skills, is his heart. He may LOOK soft by the way he moves, but his eager for winning is his primary feeling. Last night he made an interview for the spanish TV, where he can speek in a more free way, and what you can take out from what he said is that he loves the pressure for winning, as he had playing in Spain before going to NBA, and when playing for spanish national team, current world champions. That positive pressure he never felt it while in Memphis.

    Some of you are also concerned about Pau playing for Spanish Team an injuries. Maybe you remember the “Garbajosa affair” last year. For both of them, playing with their National team is out of the question. Of course there is a risk (Pau broke his foot in the 06 Japan World Championship), but it is impossible to keep him away from his team. He missed 05 Eurobasket due to Grizzlies´ indications and said it was the most awful feeling of his life to watch those games without being at the court, and that he´d never do it again. His “team” concept is very very strong. He has been playing with those guys since he gas a teenager and they are truly their brothers (and not only Marc).

    By the way, some of you also asked about Marc Gasol. He is the most improved player of spanish league (remember, the stronger one outside the NBA), with great numbers and some MVP of the week awards.

    And remember two names: Rudy Fernandez, first round pick by Portland last year, actually MVP of the spanish league, and Ricky Rubio, future number 1 pick in a couple of years and the player that some U.S. basketball experts name as “The new Magic Johnson” or “The best player in the world outside the NBA”.

    Rudy and Marc would surely go to NBA next year but Rubio, 17 yo, ohhh, well, you will have to wait a little to drool with the most talented player born since Kobe (and that includes Lebron).

  154. nomuskles says

    I just woke up and it still feels as good today as it did last night. PAU PAU PAU PAU PAU!

  155. laughing hard says

    140–Yeah, I agree. Honestly, before this trade I wouldn’t have taken the Suns over the Spurs, Mavs, Lakers, and maybe even the Hornets or Jazz in a seven-game series. I’m still not sure that I would, but at least they put themselves in a better position.

    Remember: for them having the best record in the west right now, they’ve performed really poorly against the top teams in the west.

  156. chris h says

    remember when we all thought Mitch was crazy to extend Kwame for another year? WTF was he thinking???
    well, if he hadn’t done that, we wouldn’t all be so happy right now, cause without that expiring contract, we wouldn’t have Pau.
    could Mitch have possibly known that way back then?
    was this just a lucky accident?
    what do you folks think?

  157. Chise says

    Knee-jerk reaction to this trade talk last night had me thinking the Suns were crazy. I didn’t think they had enough to win the title as constituted, but I thought they should give it one more chance. After a little reflection though, I actually think this may not be bad if they can stay healthy. Shaq doesn’t need to run the break (Nash, Hill, Bell, Amare, and Diaw can do that); he needs to provide a defensive presence (which he can do once he gets the hip situation under control) and help with their half-court game. The game is going to slow down in the playoffs, at least somewhat, and the Suns could benefit from having Shaq for their half-court game. Will it work? Who knows but it’s not as bad of a deal as I originally thought. It does represent a change in philosophy though from ownership down on.

    Financially, that’s another story. Marion could and might have come off the cap this summer whereas Shaq had 2 more years after this. Getting rid of Banks has to be a plus though and might make up for some of the extra dough Shaq has left.

  158. exhelodrvr says

    chris h,
    “could Mitch have possibly known that way back then?”

    That thought occurred to me at that point; it was the only explanation that made sense. Take a chance that Kwame works out, and if he doesn’t, then the contract is a great bargaining chip, especially for mid-season trades.

  159. kwame a. says

    One thing to remember is that Shaq only had to go through 1 team (detrioit) to make the finals. This years West Playoffs will feature ridiculously hard matchups in every round.

  161. 81 Witness says

    Brian Tung-

    Phil pulls Fisher to keep his two PGs fresh for the playoffs. He didn’t have this option with Smush and Farmar because Smush is a defensive liability and Farmar was a rookie.

    You get the same basic PG play from Fish and Farmar – Play the pick ‘n roll adequately (Fish a little better).
    Play good man-to-man D (Fish better at rebounding, but Farmar better at getting the steals)
    Can create their own shots (Farmar a little more athletic).
    Shooters first, passers second (don’t have to be passers in the triangle, when everyone is a passer).

    If I recall fish had sore knees with the Lakers during the three-peat years during the playoffs. Better to save him and give Farmar much needed playing time.

    All the critics say the PG role for the lakers vastly improved in comparison to last year. I agree. Now with Kwame out of the picture, the pick ‘n roll defense will improve too. Farmar needs to body up on the switch and his allied defender (whether it be Walton or Turiaf) needs to call out the screen. He also needs to improve on boxing out (lots of O rebounds last night, which should have been prevented had he bodied up and boxed a player). His athleticism worked in college, but little place for it in the pros (unless your name is Garnett).

  162. kwame a. says

    Fish will be back to being effective on O again, now that we have an actual post threat, he will see the open shots he saw when Bynum was out there. As far as Farmar, I have been a little dissapointed in his D on bigger guards (Stuckey, Mason,Kidd), but he’s having a great 2nd season. Hopefully when they get home he’ll get a chance to lift some weights, because it looks like he’s lost some of the muscle he started the season with.
    I love our backcourt rotation of Fish/Farmar and Kobe/Sasha.

  163. Brian Tung says

    Chris H (132), 81 Witness (161): I wasn’t really serious with my comment. Just observing that a lot of Laker players seem to rise up to near their career highs, and then fall short. I’ve seen it with Fisher a couple of times this year, and Bynum, too. Obviously, I don’t think Phil is doing it specifically to keep them from setting a new high.

    I also don’t think that’s a concern for Kobe, anymore, heh heh.

    Garnett plays pretty sound–he doesn’t rely just on his athleticism. I think Farmar generally rebounds pretty well–he seemed a little out of sorts in general last night, not just on rebounding.

  164. fifthrune says

    The Suns only have two guys that play defense, Bell and Marion, and they just traded one of them away for an over-the-hill Shaq. This might be one of the worst defensive squads in recent memory.

  165. Kenncali says

    Let me throw this out there…nickname for Shaq once he is trade to the Suns and brings that franchise down….The Big Eclipse……

    I agree, they just attached an anchor, got worse defensively and made their finacial situation worse.

    They also lost a lot of their position flexibility and will limit the amoutn of space for Amare to work. This looks like a horrible trade but the good news for us Lakers fans is it shoudl weaken the Suns, I mean the Eclipeses……..

  166. Jed says

    I assume that before Kerr made this trade he talked to Shaq about visiting the Diamondbacks to explore some of the options that aging baseball players use to remain productive.

  167. Paul says

    The Shaq deal was done for one reason: to match up with the Lakers in the Western conference finals. They see what’s up. So Nash/Fish goes to Nash, Kobe/Raja goes to Kobe, Odom/Hill goes to Odom, so far 2-1 Lakers. The Suns’ hope is that PF position (Amare/Pau) goes to Amare, and the C position (Shaq/Bynum) goes to Shaq. Even if they win those two positions in the starting lineuo, our bench trumps theirs. I say we can win a seven game series, even if the Suns have homecourt advantage,

  168. James Hastings says

    For Pau’s nickname, how about the Anti-Kwame? He has very little power game, but makes up for it with a great bball mind, recognition and great arms, hands and touch. He’s the exact opposite of our friend in Memphis.

  169. cyranodabum says

    Who knew that the Gasol trade would weaken the Suns in the process? And whatever your thoughts are on the post-trade Suns this year (I think they’re worse just in losing Marion), the Suns will be in cap purgatory the next two seasons as well, thanks to the Big Contract.

    Phoenix, your championship window has just shut tight.

  170. Daniel Sagal says

    I am praying that this trade goes through, what could possibly be better for the Lakers? I’m so excited, this will essentially give the Pacific division to the Lakers, because suppose the Suns succeed with Shaq, they wil lose a few games no matter what before they start winning!!

  174. Lamar Odom is back! says

    Pow!!!!!!!!!!! Pow!!!!!!!!!!!! I like that.

    Pow! Pow! Take that Shaq! (said with enthusiasm)

    Pow! Pow! Pau! Take that Nash and D’Antoni!

  175. Don Ford says

    The background of the Shaq trade (if it goes through) has a trivial quirk in it, in that Shaq has now been traded for Lamar Odom and for Shawn Marion, who have each been famously rumored to be traded for each other. Which is also peculiar because of course neither is Shaq’s position.

  176. gosujim says

    Shaq in Suns… i don’t think that’s a good move… but who cares… Pau is a Laker!!!

    POW POW POW !!!!!!

  177. gosujim says

    I think i’ve seen Pau’s debut vs Nets like hundred times already.. it makes me wanna cry of happyness :_)