The rumor is out there that the Lakers are going to extend Pau Gasol’s contract soon (Eric Pincus wrote this at Hoopsworld). On one hand the timing seems odd, so I’m taking this with a whole lot of salt, but eventually the Lakers will do just this in one form or another. Nobody is in favor of letting Gasol walk.
The challenge is the Lakers have a lot of pieces that they want to keep, the core of the championship team. And that means making a trade this season or a move this summer to fill in the point guard position becomes a Rubik’s cube. Zephid explains in a recent email.
If we assume we let Ammo and Farmar walk, bringing back Powell, DJ, and Fisher for the minimum, and Brown picks up his player option, we’ll have somewhere around $87 mil in payroll with a 10 man roster, not counting any draft picks whatsoever. Assuming we add 3 players for the minimum, we’ll have around $90 mil in payroll, about $1.3 mil shy of our total this year. Any quality PG we bring in will probably be in the $2-6 mil range, so that would put us somewhere between $92 mil and 96$ mil. With the luxury tax level dropping to $65 mil, which is an upper estimate (it could drop significantly lower), that would be somewhere around $30 mil in luxury tax payments, taking our total salary expenses to around $125 mil. That’s more than $10 mil more than we’re paying this year, and this is the best-case scenario.
This time of year everyone has trade ideas. Plenty of them. That includes GMs, who are calling each other a lot the last week or so (this is a busy time of years as a lot of guys become available next week). The challenges for the Lakers as I see it are multiple, however, and it will be hard to make anything really work.
Clearly, long term point guard is the primary concern. But you can’t just go get any point guard – you need someone who is willing to be offensive option number 5, can defend and hit shots from the outside. Basically, he Lakers don’t need CP3 or Ricky Rubio, they don’t want a guy who needs to have the ball in his hands. Snoopy2006 sent me an email recently saying he was struggling to find someone worth getting.
I started to look at a list of the PGs in the league. There’s so many complaints about Fisher, but what makes this difficult is that better PGs (better overall) aren’t better necessarily for the system we run. When you take that into account, there’s not a lot of good options out there (high potential guys like Beaubois and Maynor aren’t becoming available). I like George Hill a lot for our system, but if we’re being realistic, SA isn’t giving him up. Some people are high on Duhon too; I’m non-committal on him.
But outside of that, there’s no real upgrades out there (and we’re not getting a high draft pick). Fisher isn’t even in the top half of the PGs in the league, but there’s not much better out there with our current system and personnel (meaning we don’t want a high-volume shooter). So I started thinking along some different lines — are there other ways around our PG defense problem? I thought about how Ariza was perfect for guarding the speedier PGs with his length, and that led me to…. Dorrell Wright (sorry if you had a mouthful of food, try the Heimlich). I’ve watched the Heat closely for years, and I’ve seen this guy from the beginning. He’s been, by most standards, a bust. A project that never truly developed. I’ve been as down on him as any critic. But there are several things about him that intrigue me.
I’m not sure if he really is a fit, but at least Snoopy is thinking outside the box. He later makes the point that the Lakers best chance is to unearth a hidden gem for the position. The Lakers don’t need a traditional PG, guys like Harper and Paxson did well as the triangle PG even if they would have been bad fits a lot of places. For the Lakers, you can think differently about the position. Darius was thinking outside the box as well.
One other guy that I’d really want to play for us — and a guy that I think could actually play PG for us — is Anthony Morrow. Living in the Bay, I’ve gotten a close up view of this guy and he can play. He’s already one of the games best shooters, but he’s got a little bit more to his game than just that….he’s got a decent handle and is better off the dribble than you’d expect. Also, because he gets a lot of minutes at SF, he’s shown toughness on the glass and in fighting for position with guys bigger than him that has impressed me. He’s not a FA until the season after next, but if we could get our hands on him I’d be ecstatic.
Whatever happens, the Lakers are going to need to be creative. Go ahead and give us your trade ideas if you want, but remember to be creative and think realistically: The Lakers are not going to take on a big long-term salary. Bynum’s raise kicked in this year, while Kobe, Odom, Gasol and Artest are here for years. Sasha has a year left on his deal and don’t think teams are eager to have him around next year with a shooting slump and a $5 million salary. Darius adds:
The truth is that we will have a hard time making an impactful trade for a PG because (a) we need to cut payroll, (b) at least half the league won’t make a trade with us that improves us, and (c) we have no real assets to offer.
Unrelated: Did you guys see Bill Simmons’ love affair with Kobe in today’s column? He’s done a complete 180 on our Mamba. At the point when even Bill Simmons has no choice but to have nothing but respect for Kobe, I think it’s time for all of the haters to bow out.
Farmar and Shannon are developing this season, it will be interesting to see how good they are by Feb. Lakers can move Ammo to clear some salary, but there is no need to do anything, but sit back and watch. a few more road trips and this team will be off the charts, that darn good, eh
Larry Coon says
Nice pragmatic writeup, Kurt. One correction for you — Bynum’s raise already kicked in this year.
I think Hinrich continues to be the best fit from a pure basketball standpoint. The good news is that he’s probably available, since Chicago is paying him a lot of money to be a backup and he started off slow this year. The bad news is that Chicago is paying him a lot of money and he started off slow this year. I don’t think LA considers adding that much salary, even though he’s one of the few players with a declining contract — making him a net cap positive. On the Chicago side, LA’s likely offer of a cheaper backup point (Farmar) and cap relief (Morrison) + filler probably wouldn’t be the best the Bulls could fetch for him.
I agree with you that the Lakes will try to make a move to lower the payroll, and if they bring in a point, it’ll likely be in the form of a sleeper (like Ariza & Brown were when they were acquired).
Larry, thanks for the Bynum correction, change made.
Count me in the group that loves Hinrich for the Lakers on paper. And I’d be willing to do Ammo and Farmar to take the risk and try it, if money were no object. But money is an object, I think that kills this deal. That and he is shooting worse than me from three. (Well, maybe not that bad.)
Thinking outside the box is probably how the Lakers will feel the PG role next season. I don’t think they will not end up an actual PG playing the point (maybe Brown but he is more of an undersized 2 guard). I think the Lakers end up with a 2 guard who has decent enough handle to bring the ball up the court and who can make up or lack of quickness compared to other PGs with his size advantage.
Morrow would be great (not sure how he would be at defending PG in the Lakers system though) but I don’t see how that happens.
I swear you have perfect timing sometimes.
Lately, I’ve been iffy on any trade being made myself. I thought (for 2 years now) Farmar would eventually get shipped out. But I’m not so sure that even makes sense now. Keep him this year, get Ammo off the books, and hope Shannon progresses that Sasha finds redemption. It also seems likely to me that Fish comes back next year. I think Zephid hit that nail on the head.
A team would only be willing to trade for Farmar if they want the exclusivity of being able to have first crack at keeping him. Do you see any team doing that? Outside of LeBron showering him with love a la Steph Curry or John Wall?
Here’s a random thought:
Has anyone thought about Phil’s upcoming “free agency” along with the LBJ Class of 2010? Anyone think he’ll either leverage the timing of this for another huge contract from LA or possibly bolt for another chance to turn another star into a Champ?
The Dude Abides says
I’m also intrigued by Morrow and Wright. However, Wright has worked his way into the Miami rotation this season, and is playing very well. I don’t know if Miami would let him get away. I also agree that Hinrich would be a good fit for the team, but his salary precludes the Lakers from acquiring him. Too bad we couldn’t have somehow kept Douglas, or drafted Beaubois and kept him stashed in Europe for a year.
I think the move Mitch will end up making is trading Ammo plus a future draft pick to a team that’s below the cap, getting back a worse future draft pick. The Lakers would probably pay half or greater than half of Ammo’s remaining salary, and save on the luxury tax.
Am I one of the few that still has faith in Farmar? He has been playing well of late, and maybe he’d like to stay once he sees that the Lakers are the best chance he has to rack up the rings. Yes, the triangle isn’t the best system for traditional PGs, but I think Farmar (who would like to be a traditional scoring PG) can work his strengths around the triangle. Well, maybe he just doesn’t have the mentality to do so. Oh well. Well, let me ask this: if Farmar continues to play well like he has for the past 2, 3 weeks (not including the recent Milwaukee game) for the rest of the season, do you guys think he is the long term solution at PG? I think he would be fine with the starters, especially considering how he did in the game last year against Houston, when Fish was suspended.
Awright! I can’t believe we are being allowed to indulge in trade speculation!
Living in the Bay Area myself, I’ve had the opportunity to see Ant (Morrow) in action and I like him too. He could truly blossom in a more functional organization than the mess the Warriros have to offer.
I think Ant was undrafted; just more evidence that there are “hidden gems” out there.
Why would anybody want Ammo? As an expiring contract I guess …
Great post! Couple thoughts:
1) What we’re seeing right now from Farmar is Fool’s Gold. He hasn’t changed, fundamentally. He still doesn’t get it (as evinced by his recent interview with the K Brothers in the LA Times Blog where he essentially says his skills would be utilized better elsewhere). What’s happening with Farmar right now is he’s in a contract year, the Lakers haven’t extended him, and he’s correctly realized that if he doesn’t play within the Tri, he’s not going to play AT ALL, which wouldn’t exactly help his chances of getting another contract. So he’s made the smart (business) decision to play within the Tri, so he can, you know, actually PLAY.
2) Hinrich is simply too expense, though, on paper, he’d be a perfect triangle point guard.
3) I love the thinking outside the box on possible point guards of the future, but I believe that LA is hoping that Shannon Brown can figure out the point guard position and become the heir apparent to Fish. He hasn’t figured it out, yet – but there’s still time.
4) I agree with what many have said, the only possible move we may see is a salary dump of Morrison where the Lakers pay the team the rest of his salary so they can avoid paying the $5M luxury tax associated with him. Farmar is the only real intriguing chip the Lakers have (who they would consider trading) and there’s absolutely no point in trading him unless a team blows them away (which isn’t happening). Lakers are stuck with Sasha & Luke (and their corresponding contracts) for the duration.
Personally, I don’t think we make an in season trade this year unless it involves Sasha or trading Ammo for a different expiring contract that is less money this year (ie a 4 mil expiring contract that lessens our tax burden this season). And, in my opinion, since both of those options seem unlikely, I’m thinking that there is not a deal out there.
I do however, think that an off-season move is likely. Based off our current salary structure, we’ll have more salary committed to less players. That means we either take a bigger tax hit, or we find a way to reduce payroll. And since this is a trade thread – there are only 2 or 3 players that we’d be looking to trade (and one player – different than those 2 or 3 – that any other team would actually want). The two or three players we’d look to trade are Sasha (salary concerns), Luke (salary concerns), or Farmar (fit/potential value to another team). The player that every other team would want to acquire in a trade with us is Bynum.
So, my question to all of you is twofold: do you think that a trade of Sasha, Luke, or Farmar is likely? And, if not, would you be willing to give up Bynum to get the pieces that you really want? Because, when you think about it, you need the bait to make a trade. Sasha, Luke, and (even though he’s moreso, he’s still not there) Farmar are not legit bait to get a real piece to help the team. But, Bynum is. So, would you be willing to give up Bynum to get a player/multiple players that help this team. Mind you, any scenario of giving up Bynum would have to be in the off-season as I don’t think we make an in season trade, and especially not with an important piece like Drew. So, what do you think?
A few things
-Ive thought hinrich was the guy for a while and I still do despite his start, but the money is just too much
-speaking of the bulls, I think pargo could be a nice upgrade over farmar. He’s longer, she’s been shooting fairly well this season, and he is cheap. I don’t think he is the answer longterm, but he, brown and then maybe some clutch minutes from fish could get the job done for a while.
-in term of the money issue, I think that ultimately we are going to trade odom to get a permenant solution at the point. Odom has one of those non-garunteed contracts where after three years he can be traded and then the other team can waive him to cut their payroll by like 8 mil. I am glad we resigned him, but once drew dull develops he is really more of a luxury, especially with Ron Ron.
-chalmers would also be a great fit.
I think Ramon Sessions would be a really good fit for the Lakers, hes relatively cheap…I think he just signed a 3 year deal for 3-5 mil per year. The wolves might be willing to move him bc they have Johnny flynn getting a majority of the pg mins. There is also the connection to Kurt Rambis (although i dont know how much say he has in personnel decisions)
I just don’t think anyone would want Sasha or Luke at their salaries. Farmar,it’s hard for me to see Lakers giving him up for anyone out there right now and the inherent risk in trying to plug in a new piece.
If anything for Farmar, I can see Lakers working out some kind of sign and trade in the off season. But in season, just hard for me to see Lakers taking the risk. For all the grief he’s gotten, some deserved, Jordan has been a contributor that knows the system.
As for giving up Bynum, I don’t think that’s feasible with the current system. There’s no way you get equal value to plug into the system. Besides, anyone you pick up will cost about the same collectively. Lakers have one hole right now in long term plans, the PG spot. Everyone else is locked up.
Assuming Buss is willing to pay the amount in the projections, the best bet always comes back down to letting Jordan and Ammo walk and find an undrafted guy.
There’s got to be some decent NBDL prospects that would be perfectly willing to be the fifth option and mainly a shooter. Sign them for the minimum to groom. Hope that Shannon can soak up some minutes and maybe sign Fish to a lower contract for another 2-3 years as a stop gap.
Yeah, I know, I’m a buzzkill on a trade thread.
I brainstormed with a friend on ideal realistic PG targets..Mario Chalmers really fits the criteria. Hits the 3, good defense (great steal numbers), does not need/want to be the focal point on offense (or anywhere close, averages less than 10ppg), pretty cheap contract, not needed/wanted by his team considering Arroyo is starting over him, and the Heat are looking for cap space
Here’s a plethora of Lakers Links for those interested:
i really think the team will have to wait until mr brick and mr broke can be dumped, before they can upgrade at PG. morrison is clearly going to be cut loose this year to save money. maybe the farmer will be cut loose too, for the same reason.
Luiz André says
Farmar is not a good fit for the triangle. Shannon is. And a very good one. But both of them work in a fast paced game, somewhat.
Dudes I see fit: Hinrich, Sessions, Mo Williams, Curry, George Hill, Bibby, Chalmers, Eddie House, Danny Gibson. Of these guys, I’d go with Sessions, Curry, Hill or Chalmers, for the potential.
I think the best option is a 2nd draft pick senior point guard.
Somone like Nic Wise from the university of Arizona, is almost like a much smaller fisher, but a lot faster.
Maybe Farmar’s recent plays is fool’s gold. Maybe it isn’t. Either way the Lakers have to see it through it seems.
Throughout Farmar’s career, he has typically responded well to pressure or competition and with Shannon taking some of his minutes at first, he improved. Most importantly, he trying more on defense. I feel Phil’s rotations have had a positive impact on Jordan’s play too.
I disagree with most of your list. No real difference. Except for maybe 2 guys. And if we’re going to talk about replacing Farmar, then we need to go another route. As in reliable shooter/willing passer/good defender. Most of those guys aren’t much different than Jordan.
This may be far-fetched, (and maybe completely imaginary), but, I’m in Arizona and follow the Sun Devils, and I’ve seen Derek Glasser play for four years. He’s played alongside Jeff Pendegraph (now in Portland) and James Harden (since high school). Glasser has great basketball IQ and had only started shooting a little more this year. Herb Sendek is a heck of a coach at ASU and teaches good basketball. Assuming Fish stays around for at least another year, growing a PG is still do-able.
I’m a big Sun Devil fan as well, so feel free to disregard this as nonsense, but Glasser is smart and developing well and I think he has potential.
I can’t wrap my head around a current player, and create a trade that may fit, so I really think developing one is the best route. Teach the triangle in a young kid and let him become the player we want instead of changing someone. Though I do like the idea of a non-traditonal PG, such as Morrow or a 2-guard without an ego.
I agree with Burgundy as far as Farmar being fools gold. Although I can’t fault him for being ambitious and like Trevor, wanting to be the man as far as making a name for himself out there.
I’m sure Mitch’ll find the next Paxson/Kerr/Hodges/Harper/Fisher out there. Hopefully its Brown, he seems to have his head on his shoulders as far as knowing his role, just needs some fine tuning.
It seems that the triangle really needs a selfless individual to play point.
Miami might be a willing trade partner given how they have aspirations of matching someone like Bosh with Wade. I just don’t see a lot of teams willing to help us out. It will be a long time before people stop talking about the Pau heist and they will never forget. We had our on-time and used it perfectly. We won’t get one again.
As to draft speculation, Ish Smith of Wake Forest to me has the perfect mold for what we want. Speedy PG, good defense, and has shown potential from 3 (just no this year). Will be available in the 2nd round.
Luiz André says
Just a matter of opinion. To say the least of my list, they are all better than Farmar.
But now that I’ve thought about it some more, I think Chalmers would fit perfectly, and also is not too farfetched of getting a deal done.
I don’t like Farmar’s game. I think his cockiness(Can you verify this Kurt? I think journalists were suggesting that this guy is too confident, almost cocky) is affecting his development. The way he defends is awful, he doesn’t move his feet very well. Even when he’s in with the first unit, he tends to let guards penetrate a little too often. His shooting isn’t exactly reliable either.
Miami can’t trade Chalmers and tank the season – Dwyane Wade will go into orbit.
Farmar is absolutely right to say he would fit better elsewhere. Thats the truth and thats been acknowledged on this blog quite frequently. IMHO that makes him a huge trade asset.. unfortunately he isn’t making that much. but! he has tons of potential to be a solid starter in a different system.. and there would be teams willing to take bad (but expiring) contracts just so they can have his bird rights.. Im thinking teams which play fast and are getting desperate.. (Pacers, Knicks, Dubs?)
Eg Farmar (and or) AMEC (~$7mil).. both expire this year.. (with the 2010 FA bubble thats worth more than other years) in exchange for..
Heres the difficult part.. No one is likely to trade a significant contributor for a (essentially) 7mio experiment, expiring or not. Anyone who plays more than 10mpg is automatically out.. the lakers will have to seek out player who barely crack the rotation on their own teams.. who have raw talent but have shown an unwillingness/inability to develop and have hence been relegated to the end of the bench. Players like Ariza in Orlando or Brown in Charlotte who most of us have barely heard of let alone watched. So while a trade may seem difficult or unlikely, don’t put it past Mitch and his team (who obviously watch alot of scouting tape) to figure something out.. At the end of the day the Laker’s strength (team management wise) is their ability to grow talent organically. Phil’s ability to clearly define player’s roles based on their ability.. Veteran leadership and lessons from peers like Fish/Pau/Kobe..
Players who can defend 1s, but are large enough to play minutes at the 3 and can hit the long ball are ideal.
I’d prefer John Salmons to Kirk Hinrich.
P. Ami says
I think a trade using Bynum as bait gets you in the position of downgrading that position in order to keep from degrading in another. I suppose you can get a really nice upgrade at the PG for him, as well as fit the payroll to a more manageable payment schedule, but the system on the court is predicated on all that size and length down low. It is great to have a shooter who has the IQ to grasp the system and the length to interchange on all those defensive switches that PJ seems to prefer. As other posters have seemed to grasp, this does not have to be a PG. There will be guys like that in the D League, overseas, and coming up in the 2nd round of the draft. I would much rather count on that and keep Bynum then lose that size advantage which gives the Lakers all that margin for error. If we look at the other major contributing guards who have won in the this system (Armstrong, Harper, Kerr, Fish, Shaw) I see guys that can be found without having to give up someone like Bynum.
I think we are making an assumption that ShanWOW will exercise his $2m player’s option and remain in LA. Remember, there were other teams out there vying for his services. If ShanWOW opts to be a free agent again, doesn’t it diminish our use of the MLE since a chunk of it would have to be spent on re-signing ShanWOW?
Ironically, I think Farmar may have tons of leverage here given the limited options the Lakers have in “upgrading” the PG position since there is a chance we lose him through free agency and get nothing back.
I echo everyone’s sentiments about Hinrich. What a perfect player for the triangle. Pretty selfless, hard-nosed competitor and above average defender. Will the Lakers, knowing they have little options in the summer try to go for him and assume his big contract? If there was a time to try to pry him from Chicago, it’s now since Chi will have to clear some more cap space to try to sign the big names in 2010.
Another guy I like is Jarret Jack, but he seems firmly ensconced in Tor. And how about Critterton? Wouldn’t it be worth taking a look at him again?
That said, Fisher will undoubtedely be re-signed at a lower salary and remain with the Lakers.
Java Crittenton – knows the system, has good height, and good attitude. Plus, he isn’t playing for the Wizards with Zero, Foye, Young and DeShawn ahead of him.
Hinrich would be nice if we could package Sasha with AmMo (throw in farmar – I don’t care).
Wonder if the Clippers are happy with the way Boom-Dizzle is playing.
Best case scenario would be to wait for the end of season and hope someone like Mike Miller or (shudder!) TMac is willing to sign for the MLE to get a ring.
Nice to have, but not probable – Thabo Sefolosha, Corey Brewer, Trevor Ariza (he can’t handle the ball, but would be great at defending the PG and shooting the open 3).
Bynum is not an option to trade, IMO.
I’m of the belief that Shannon Brown will figure it out and become the starter. He has all the tools to fit the system, he just doesn’t have the skills just yet.
If a trade is where we go, Heinrich would be a nice pickup. All our PG needs to do is play D, shoot open 3’s and keep the ball moving. Heinrich can do the first 2 better than Fish. Then again, so can Shannon.
crittendon would be an interesting pickup, but risky if Fish retires soon because he’s still very raw.
Regardless, when we do move to a new PG, we are going to take our lumps. However, there is so much basketball IQ on our squad from Kobe to Phil to Pau that I’m sure anybody willing to take on the role will learn it well over the course of a season.
the other Stephen says
hey guys, i’m currently shooting 100% from the three. and the dunk area. and i’m making all of my full-court heaves. i’m available on MWF, and i’ll play for tacos and lakers t-shirts.
or 0%, however you want to look at it.
Living in the bay I’ve also had the pleasure/horror of watching the Warriors a lot. I like Morrow too, but not sure he’s the athletic defender we’d all like at the PG slot – he just doesn’t have great lateral movement. A guy who can shoot as well as he can is also sure to fetch more dollars from some other team then we can afford to match.
The guy on the Warriors I’d take in a heartbeat is CJ Watson. At 6’2″, he has good height, though he is on the skinnier side. He fought his way up from the D-League and he’s tough and shoots from the outside extremely well. Defensively he’s very solid but not the super-quick guy who’s going to be able to completely lock down on the faster PG’s in the league. If given the narrow role of hitting outside shots as the 5th option, and playing tough defense I think he could excel for us. On top of that he’s likely to be available – playing behind Monta and Steph Curry at the PG position and he’s cheap at about $1M this year.
LG Gold says
As yet another alternative to trading for a PG this season or during the summer, how about signing one of the guards on the D-Fenders this summer?
I haven’t followed the team at all, but Gabe Pruitt and Joe Crawford have NBA-level talent and should be somewhat familiar with the triangle by the end of the year. They should also come cheap.
#30. P. Ami, I agree with you in what you’re saying about length and size down low. If, we were willing to give up Bynum, I’d be looking for two players – a PG that is a definite upgrade for us and a reasonably long term solution AND I’d be looking for a quality big that can rebound and defend and fit into our offensive system.
A lot of people are mentioning Heinrich as a PG that fills the first need and in my opinion Joakim Noah is the type of player I’d be looking at for the big man. It just so happens that both those players play for the same team. I mean, we all just saw Noah the other night and we pretty much all saw a hustling/rebounding/defending player that has good size and length that is also not a needy player. Also, the guy is a winner. And since this is a trade thread, I’m just saying that next season, Bynum will make 13.8 mil and Noah/Kirk will make just over 12 mil (1.6 mil savings and 3.2 of lux tax savings). The season after that, Bynum will make 15 mil and Noah (qualifying offer) and Kirk will make just over 12 mil (because Kirk’s contract actually goes down by a million) which is an even bigger savings. Plus, if the trade were to happen *after* this season, Chi will be under the cap and salaries don’t even have to match. So, theoretically, we could even try to throw in Sasha (unlikely, I know, but he is an expiring contract) to make the total salary going out 19 mil and our incoming salary a little over 12 mil (which is a huge savings). Now, imagine if Chicago has all the cap room this Summer and they can’t lure a great player. No Lebron. No Wade or Bosh. No Amare or Dirk. At that point, what do they do? Stay with Rose and Deng and over pay for the second tier FA’s that are looking to cash in? Or do they roll the dice and try to acquire a young, promising (at that point, likely all star) Center to pair with those guys by giving up your starting Center (who is very good in his own right) and your back up PG? This is a trade thread, so I’m just throwing it out there. I have other things that I could add to make this argument more palatable, but I’ll leave those for later. But, is this really that crazy? I love Bynum, but I’m just saying that if you’re really looking to upgrade the team on the whole (and not just hope you find a gem of a PG off the scrap heap or draft some kid that is ready to play on a Championship caliber team from day one) then you have to give something up.
If this is supposed to be a “long-term” solution, it needs to be someone who is fairly mediocre; otherwise they will be too expensive.
To elaborate, the reason I like Dorell Wright (who I’ve been down on in the past) is because he reminds me so much of Ariza:
-He’s built in a similar mold to Ariza: rangy, athletic 3 without a ton of skills or polish.
-That said, his midrange J is already better than Ariza’s was when he got here. What could a year under Kobe’s shooting program do for him?
-He’s been a bust for the most part, but he’s also shown flashes. And the flashes he’s shown have been more impressive and frequent than Ariza’s in NY and Orlando.
-His value is at an all-time low right now.
-His ball-handling is better than Ariza’s ever was, or is now. Spoelstra played him at the point in a recent game against the Kings and he had his most successful outing all year.
Basically, I see a potential hidden gem with perhaps a little less footspeed but better handles and J than pre-Lakers Ariza. I’m extrapolating, which is always troublesome, because there’s no guarantee Wright develops under Phil the way Ariza did. But there’s so many similarities it’s unnerving.
Other guys that would be perfect for our system:
-Courtney Lee (credit to Zephid)
They’re not as long or have as much upside as Ariza/Wright, but they’ll do the job.
Bottom line, unless Mitch sees a trade that he really likes, it’s more than likely we’re not going to see any action this year (unless it involves bringing back another EC like Wright – Miami is more desperate for a PG than we are and may take Farmar).
I was thinking J Crit but he plays 18mpg for the wiz.. he’s also 23% career and 13% for the season from 3.
I don’t disagree about some/most of them being better. I just don’t think most of them are much different from Farmar is regards to style of play. My comment wasn’t sticking up for Jordan really. Just pointing out the need for a certain type of replacement.
I don’t think the Lakers are looking to , nor should replace Farmar with someone who just does the same thing, only better.
Can the Lakers win for a couple more years as currently constructed – dumping Ammo and Farmar? Brown starts as PG and Fish as back up (plus a couple cheap spare parts). This is the only thing I see as plausible
Moving Sasha and Luke are the only other pieces that can help and who’s taking them?
What about Bynum for Noah and Heinrich? (Haven’t checked the numbers) Just curious…
i was thinking about trading bynum+(farmar or morrison or sasha or ?) for Yao and Hinrich after this season. this would involve a 3rd team. kb/yao/pau would make lakers the best team ever.
lakersfansincemikan (tsuwm) says
for an in-season trade, you’re looking for someone who has some experience in a similar system. let’s see, who else runs the triangle offense.. who traded like a mad man in the preseason.. also, which team is going absolutely nowhere this season?
I think most people will be completely opposed to trading Bynum. For the most part, I am, too, although it should be noted that we went to 2 consecutive Finals with minimal contributions from Drew (nothing All-Star level, certainly). So it’s not that we can’t have success without Bynum. It’s more that we’ve invested so much time into developing him, he can be the center of our team for the next decade plus.
It’s a genuine concern if we fear Buss’s cutting payroll will lead to minimal depth (beyond Lamar). If that’s the case, Noah is definitely one I’d want in return. But at the end of the day, after all the time we’ve spent waiting on Drew, I’d rather sit still and hope that Buss doesn’t slash our depth.
I’d never give up Bynum for Yao. We don’t need another offensively-skilled center when we have Pau, especially not one who’s defensively challenged and injury prone.
44 brings up a good point. MN might value Luke a bit more than other teams because he could do what Fisher did for us – a veteran to teach the triangle. But at that contract, even MN would probably balk…
This is what Mitch gets paid for. It’s what West had to do – find minimally paid players who could fit certain roles.
I don’t trade Bynum unless I get Deron Williams. And that ain’t happening.
Looking at the replies, it seems like almost 100% of us believe ShanWoW will be back. Some think that the $2m option he has will be enough. But if some presume he may be starting next year, why would he play under a $2m contract that is good for just one year? Wouldn’t he opt out, then sign a longer-term and higher paying deal? My understanding is since we don’t own his Bird rights, he will take down our MLE and there goes our other options for “upgrading” the PG spot. That means it would most likely mean Brown and Fisher at the PG spot, with a hole at the SG spot to be filled with veteran exceptions and whatever is left from the MLE.
I think we have to be mindful that ShanWow planned this out so that if he was going to be projected as a starter, he would ask for a more befitting salary and long-term stability. Ergo, ShanWow’s contract status may throw a giant monkey’s wrench at our off-season plans.
Chris J says
This talk of trading Bynum may be the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read on this site. “Let’s trade a 22-year-old (future) All-Star, the best young center in the conference who’s locked into reasonable contract to hopefully get a point guard to play in a system that doesn’t require a great PG to succeed.”
Yeah, that’s the plan – if you’re a moron or a Blazers fan.
The post itself notes what’s really Mitch’s biggest challenge: keeping things together in an era in which the luxury tax clearly makes it difficult to stockpile expensive talent.
I love Pau, and he’s a perfect player for the Lakers system. But let’s jump ahead three, four years and ask some hard questions based on some very real issues that could occur:
* Will Phil Jackson be the Lakers head coach? If not, will his replacement continue to run the same system?
We’d like to think we know these answers, but honestly, we do not.
Phil’s got a great situation in L.A., but his body can only take the NBA grind for so long. He’s got the records, he’s got the rings, and he’s got his money. (Not to mention, the Lakers would likely keep him employed in some other capacity in the front office once he leaves the bench.) At some point — maybe after this season — he’s going to walk away.
We like to think BShaw can carry the torch, but there’s no promise he’d get the job, and additionally it’s not as though Phil’s other assistants have had great success in his stead. Cleamons didn’t last in Dallas, and we’d all love to forget the Frank Hamblem era.
* Will the next coach run the triangle, or something else?
Again, it remains to be seen. A lot will depend on Kobe’s input, and how well he can play as he ages.
But if the Lakers did move away from the triangle, would you rather have a strong, inside power in his mid-20s like Bynum, or a softer, pass and finesse player like Gasol?
Again, no knock to Pau – but he’s older, needs a certain system to really thrive, and has mileage on him from years of summers playing for Spain.
Just as in 2004, the choice of Kobe over Shaq was a no brainer for the ensuing five years, I’d suggest that if it comes down to keeping Bynum or keeping Pau circa 2012-13, Bynum appears on track to be the one who carries L.A. into the next era.
In a perfect world, Buss would roll his playoff windfall into an ever-expanding payroll to keep this team together for years to come. But if it comes down to not being able to afford so many All-Stars, tough questions will have to be answered.
A couple of big guards I like are Pacers Brandon Rush and Dahntay Jones. Jones is a villain, but when a nasty guy like that is on your team, he’s a hero.
The Pacers could use an upgrade at PG, and I think Farmar would thrive in that offense.
Noah/Hinrich for Bynum would be something to think about. At the end of the day Bynum is as untradeable as it gets. His size and skill set are more rare than findin a Noah or a Hinrich. Plus I dont think those two players would upgrade us enough to offset the loss of Bynum.
Not to mention that he’s only getting better. We trade him now… who knows what will happen. He ends up with a great wing player and they go Kobe/Shaq on us and beat us in the finals.
as much as i love shannon, he hasn’t proved anything yet that would increase his value past the $2m he is already getting.
The funny thing is that because the Lakers don’t need a “traditional PG” it makes it easier for us to upgrade that position. There are about 20 good “traditional PG’s” in the NBA. However there are about 60 guys who are 6 ft to 6-6 who can shoot from the outside and defend (the only thing we need from our PG position). It is the same reason the Lakers could get Shannon Brown as a throw in. What always cracks me up is in the triangle offense ALL the Lakers need from a PG is outside shooting and defense and those are two of Fisher’s biggest weakness’. It is time for the Lakers to fill in their only hole. If we could acquire an average PG we probably wouldn’t come close to losing one regular season game if healthy.
I think Matt Moore over at Hardwood Paroxysm (even though he is an open Laker hater, I love his site – he owns up to it, is honest, and is funny as hell) wrote not too long ago that if the Lakers found a way to get Anthony Morrow with his 3-pt shooting, civilization as we know it would come to an end. But I doubt they can get him for any money we can realistically pay.
As long as Fish is in shape, we have to stick with him. On-ball D is bad, but help he is OK. Kobe respects him and he is money in the clutch.
Hinrich has too many injuries to be sure he could contribute long-term, even if his shooting comes back.
Anybody for Steve Blake? Portland has some serious PG issues and it looks like it’s 50/50 on whether it’s Blake or Miller that will be on the outs. Blake seems to fit the triPG mold of being a shooting PG rather than a traditional PG (Brandon Roy is the real PG of the Blazers) and has no problem deferring. My only real questions are regarding his D and contract (no idea about either). A quick lookup reveals he’s set to make $4M in 2010. Thoughts?
I’m not advocating trading Bynum, I’m just saying it shouldn’t be outright dismissed either. A couple of questions, in regards to Bynum, that I still have are:
*Will Bynum and Pau ever really compliment each other in a way that maximizes both of their immense talent?
*Is Bynum really the bridge to another Lakers’ dynasty or at least years of contending for the title? Or said another way – is he a Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem type of player that can be one of the best players in the league (not just one of the best big men)?
*What is the proper outlook when evaluating the Lakers’ for the short and long term? In other words, should we be looking to maximize a team led by Kobe/Pau and, if so, is Bynum the next logical piece to completing that puzzle? Or should we shift our mentality to 3-5 years from now when Kobe is aged and Pau is likely to begin to drop off (slightly) from his peak? Or should we be balancing that, but again, if we are balancing that is Bynum the logical next piece?
*Does the current core of our team – Kobe (a guard that is still very perimeter oriented but encompassing more of a post game into his arsenal), Pau (one of the most skilled post players in the game as a PF or C), Bynum (a true offensive beast that is still developing his defense and reboudning and feel for the game), Artest (a versatile SF that is playing an all around game and very strong defense), and Odom (another versatile PF that rebounds, defends, and handles the ball/initiates offense) – does this core show enough balance? Even if there is a talent down grade from Bynum to his replacement or even if a PG and C don’t have as much talent as Bynum – do all the pieces fit in a way that promotes the highest level of success?
Look, we’re a damned good team as is. We’re favored for the title for a reason. I remember what Kobe said after we got Ron but lost Trevor – that “we may not be better, but we are different” and I wonder what the next move is/could be. You don’t have to win every trade, but you hope that you get to the point that the players you bring in can help you win games. It may not be in the same way you were winning them before, but you still may win them. Like I said, I’m not trying to push Bynum out the door, but I stand by the fact that if you really want to improve the team, via trade, you have to give something of value up. Kwame’s large expiring deal was a real asset and it got us Pau. But, right now, we don’t have that asset. Farmar, Ammo’s contract, and/or Sasha/Luke are not assets. So, it goes back to the original point, you either give something of value up or you unearth a gem. I’m not claiming to have the answer, I’m just saying that nothing needs to be dismissed outright.
“*Will Bynum and Pau ever really compliment each other in a way that maximizes both of their immense talent?”
There is no way that the Pau/Bynum/Odom can be maximized (assuming no significant injuries). Not enough minutes.
I think that Bynum/Gasol can be, IF Bynum is willing to focus on rebounding and defense, and IF Kobe adjusts his game somewhat to utilize their strengths.
Thats an interesting trend of thought.. but why do we need to choose between Pau and drew? Twin towers will carry the franchise for years after Kobe’s gone a la Duncan and Robinson.. all we really need is a couple of shooters and slashers around them and we have a competitive team.. not a contender yet but a young team on the verge of making that breakthru.. 27-year old Bynum should be a beast.. enough to be the centre-piece in any system.. and Pau has the basketball IQ to fit on the Japanese National team.. The trick would be turning the salary of LO/Artest/Kobe into substantial talent so they won’t retire and leave the Lakers empty-handed. That 3rd year in LO’s contract was a great forward looking move.. Wouldn’t be surprised if Kobe’s extension had something similar worked in (when he’s like 45 and ready to retire)
Let me be clear too, I love our team as is (even have hope for Sasha and Luke), so I am not pushing for anything at all.
With that said, I was thinking the same thing as Darius about the fit of Bynum with Pau. It is a great luxury to have, but is it possible that one will always gain at the expense of the other?
Is it possible we have too many top dogs that need to eat in Kobe, Pau and Bynum? (Bynum clearly really likes to score – he’s never going to be content as a D and board guy) Could we lose one (and it wouldn’t be Kobe or Pau) to gain a couple of excellent role players?
How badly does management want some cap relief?
This is just goofy speculation. The season is too much fun to get too worked up about it.
I think 32 mentioned it, CJ Watson is pretty good and has experience being the 5th option on his team. While Duhon isn’t very good in the D’antoni system, he could be a decent veteran filler. I’m of the opinion that if we don’t find a decent cheap veteran, we bring back Fisher and then draft a guy like Kemba Walker in the 2nd round. He’s got first round potential, but coming out early may cause him to dip a little bit and we’ve got a high second round pick. He’s not the ideal size, but lightning quick on the defensive end. Really that’s all it comes down to is guarding the quicker point guards. We’ve got guys who can make shots but quick point guards have been hampering us since the days of Damon Stoudamire in Portland and even before that.
Sorry for the double post.. but would portland have incentive for this threesome?
NY would take Farmar/Ammo 7.2 expiring, a PG who could run/run in their system
LA would take Andre Miller for 6.7x3years (LT Salary/LT Solution) OR Steve Blake + Jerry Bayless (6.1 combined, the former can really shoot the 3)
Portland would take Jared Jeffries 6.4 to give them some front court depth to deal with the Oden situation while solving the Miller problem..
I know.. crazy and unlikely to work right?
The Dude Abides says
OT-new angle of Kobe-Bogut block-charge play. It appears that the refs got it right. Bogut wasn’t set. He was in the process of shifting to his right approximately two or three feet when contact occurred, then he flopped.
Bynum’s not going anywhere.
I just threw up in my mouth. The guy is a career loser. Steph without craziness. No thanks to his karma. Losses follow him.
I’d rather Jarred Jeffries playing PG before I’d go near Miller.
Here’s an old rumor or story:
In the ’06 draft, Lakers picked Jordan Farmar with the 26th pick. It was believed, however, that Mitch actually wanted the Shannon Brown from the get go from that draft but he was selected 25th by the Cavs.
Fast forward to 2008 and you have Mitch with a trade involving Shannon. Yes yes, this could all be just a rumor or a theory but the story makes sense.
The likelihood is that Mitch plans on making Shannon the starting point guard, bring back Fisher with the veteran’s minimum, and let Farmar go. Kind of obvious and easy scenario but the most logical and rational one. Also realize that Shannon hasn’t even been in the triangle offense for two years yet. The triangle, which most of you probably know, is a system full of intricacies and subtleties. Let Shannon develop more under this system, further develop his outside shot (something he didn’t have in college or early in the league – something he developed on his own) and you have a young and athletic, former first round pick, and All-Big Ten Defensive player as the future point guard. He’s basically a bigger and more athletic Derek Fisher. Perfect fit for the system isn’t he?
If the Lakers are looking to trade one of their big money guys (Bynum, Odom, Gasol or Kobe) to save money then based on age and injuries I think it would make the most sense to trade Kobe, and trading Kobe would be a spectacularly stupid thing to do. We need to accept the fact that a replacement level player is going to be the point guard for at least the next three years. Who ever this player is will probably have a limited skill set, and I for one would prefer a reliable three point shooter over a lock-down defender. The only caveat is that if the Nets get the #1 pick and like Wall, they might consider a trade of Lopez and Harris for Bynum.
The Dude Abides says
60. The rest of the league greatly undervalues Jared J’s talents (and with good reason). Portland would only acquire him for cap relief.
Andre Miller is an even worse fit for the triangle than he is in Portland, and he’s a terrible fit in Portland. Let’s face it, a more realistic trade is Miller for Jared J straight up.
Steve Blake is not very good at the game of NBA basketball. At times, he has been a decent spot-up shooter. However, he can’t finish at the rim, he has no Tony Parker/Derrick Rose-style floater, and is both a terrible individual defender and a terrible team defender.
There is absolutely no chance that Portland trades Jerryd Bayless. The only reason it has taken him until last night to have a breakout game is because Nate McMillan, while a decent coach, is incredibly stubborn and narrow-minded.
OK, kind of looking in the rear view mirror with the knowledge of the present but… When the lakers traded for Pau Gasol, wouldn’t it have been awesome if the Lakers kept Marc Gasol pick and traded Andrew instead? Marc seems to be just as good at Andrew with plenty of room for development. Also, with Gasol brothers as our front court, they’d likely pressure eachother to continue developing and play hard every night, keeping eachother accountable. Oh, and we’d be saving $10million dollars right now in salary. Wishful thinking right?
WOW – that’s some serious food for thought: Bynum for Hinrich/Noah.
The questions you raise are absolutely valid. Bynum is a “beast” in the right circumstances. There’s certainly a possibility that he’s more a “great stats on a bad team” type guy (I’m not saying that’s DEFINITELY the case, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility).
The truth of the matter is Bynum and Pau DO NOT have complimentary games. Pau is such a smart, skilled offensive player, that he can make it work, but it’s not ideal. That’s why Pau and Odom get the crunch time minutes because they absolutely DO have complimentary games.
Pau is most ideally paired with a rangy defender who can rebound, make timely cuts, and basically doesn’t need to dominate the ball to bring good things to the table (like Odom…or Noah).
Bynum is a classic, back to the basket center – which is certainly nice…but his game is more about dumping the ball into him, letting him get position, and then make a scoring move. There’s no cohesion with the rest of the team in his offense. Noah is obviously a fan of Phil Jackson and the Tri and would bust his rear end every night.
Bynum is the type of player that seems to drift if he doesn’t get enough touches (and on this team, there are too many hungry mouths to feed).
SO, in this hypothetical situation, the Lakers would get a hard defending, high energy, excellent rebounding big man (Noah) to pair with (and compliment) Pau’s game. The team wouldn’t have to worry about dumping it into Bynum and standing around (knowing full well that once they dump it in…it ain’t coming back out), and instead could re-focus on dumping into Gasol (who is the more skilled offensive player). In addition, they would get a young, unselfish, solid defender in Hinrich who could be the point guard of their future.
Doesn’t sound like a terrible trade to me…
THAT BEING SAID…It’s absolutely insane, but it’s been floated around so much, I think it needs to be addressed…
WHAT IF LEBRON DECIDES TO FORCE HIS WAY OUT OF CLEVELAND?
What if Cleveland decides they have to trade him or get nothing in return?
Are they going to do much better than a package centered around Andrew Bynum (a young, dominant center)?
Can you imagine if the Lakers were able to trot out Lebron, Kobe, and Gasol in the same lineup? Would it matter who the other two guys were? What if one of the other guys was Ron Artest?
It’s fantasy, but it’s not impossible…
Two words — Juan Carlos Navarro
I think it’s best to let Farmar / AMEC run off the books…Ammo is definitely not a part of our long-term plans and Farmar seems unwilling to become a part of them…and I refuse to support Brown as our long-term pg until he learns to stop traveling when initiating his drive/move from the 3-point line.
I think we stick with 0.4 for at least another year and sign a “project” SG that:
1. is athletic enough to defend 1’s; by the way, I think it is IMPOSSIBLE to truly shutdown the quicker 1’s in today’s NBA, so this requirement won’t ever be completely satisfied, even if we did get a true PG
2. can shoot the 3-ball 40+% consistently
3. does NOT need the ball to function (he will ALWAYS be the 5th option in our starting five) / can be a glue-guy
4. can handle the ball sufficiently to hold off on-ball pressure in the backcourt to hand the rock to options 1-4 in our starting five
5. is happy to make the smart simple pass/play…again, needs to be a glue-guy
A lot of people are mentioning Kirk Hinrch, but I think he fails on #2. We absolutely need a strong shooter at the 1 spot and while Kirk is a good shooter, he’s not someone I’d like to have taking my 3’s at the end of games (a la Fish).
from that angle, he was moving to his right to close the gap between him and the defender where Kobe ran right into.
re Bynum: I just don’t think he’s going to be a Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan type of player. I haven’t heard anyone in the know say so either, only that he’ll be one of the best in the league, and since good big men are hard to find these days, he’s valuable.
Whether having Kobe/Pau/Bynum is too much of a good thing depends on Bynum’s attitude. If he sees it as a challenge and rises to meet it, we are golden. If he sulks and asks when is it going to be my turn to be the man, his turn may not come with the Lakers.
63 That bad? haha.. This guy once averaged 16/11/5 and has the basketball IQ to run the triangle effectively.. I’ve never though of him as the chemistry ruining ballhog that is marbury.. (but I haven’t been watching hoops for long so what do I know?)
65 Yea that was what I figured.. Portland can’t be that desperate for frontcourt depth.. That straight up trade won’t work cause Miller has 3 years to go.. Blake may not be able to slash/finish.. but is that sth we really need from our PG? We need 3pt shooting, bball IQ and defense. The first he has, the 2nd is decent, the 3rd.. well the lakers PG defense can’t get any worse right?
Igor Avidon says
I’m with Darius on this. Bynum has a much higher ceiling, he’s shown undeniable talent, and he’s a rare breed with his size, mobility and soft hands.
But when it comes to Joakim Noah, I have to say this: he brings high-level intensity to each and every game and he is a WINNER. Andrew doesn’t always have the same ‘motor’ that Noah does. Even today we see that he plays for his personal stats first, and the win second. Noah has no problems being a role player who does the dirty work as long as his team WINS. I admire the kid and his work ethic – just look at the muscle mass he’s put on since last year. You don’t do that without long-term dedication. I’ll bet he’s even working to improve his inside game because that’s what his team needs. Wouldn’t a player like Noah, with his defensive & rebounding hustle, be a perfect component to a team that has a great low-post scorer in Pau and legendary wing like Kobe?
And you know the Bulls would have to seriously consider this as well. They need two things badly – big man with scoring ability inside, and a 3-point shooter to help them with their horrid outside shooting. Given significant playing time, Andrew and Sasha can deliver those things. Along with Derrick Rose, a great young guard, Chicago would be set-up pretty nicely for the future. They might not even need to try and lure outside talent at that point, since they’ll have a great point guard, a decent wing in Deng, and a dominant big man.
Kirk & Noah for Andrew & Sasha might just be a win for both sides..
The league, as many have mentioned, has been shifting in style from dominant big men to C/PF hybrids and speedy point guards.
While I understand Laker fans wanting to react and adjust to this, I say the league right now is more focused on adjusting to the Lakers unique style of play along with their unique personnel (i.e. Gasol, Bynum at 7’+, Odom at 6’10).
While speedy point guards have burned us, let’s not forget we just won a title and are 20-4. Speedy point guards are hard to contain because of their penetration – and I say the best way to stop them is not with another speedy point guard (as Kurt has mentioned, Tony Parker wouldn’t be able to guard Tony Parker), rather by doing what the Lakers are already doing- having a pair of 7 footers protecting the paint for when the do penetrate.
While I would love to see a trade for a Ramon Sessions or Hinrich, I would rather the Lakers focus on the development of Bynum, Bynum and Gasol as complements, and also the development of their young players (Shannon Brown specifically). With all the free agents this upcoming summer, I feel the Lakers would be best served by focusing on these things and then focus on the point guard situation this off season when the landscape of the NBA will change greatly. With all the focus on the Dwayne Wades and Amares of the world, the Lakers should be able to sneak out with a nice pg prospect.
Also- Kurt- have you ever considered adding discussion boards to your site? I apologize if you’ve answered this question, but it was mentioned in TrueHoop today about another blog and I immediately thought this site would benefit, as I wouldn’t feel guilty for hijacking great posts like this one when I have an off topic question for FBG readers as I do now.
Have you guys read Henry’s posts about Kobe and clutch shooting? The guy is pretty relentless and loves to do the compliment sandwich with Kobe: Something good, something really bad that is the meat of his post, something good.
The problem I have with the stats he loves to quote is this: just because a shot is taken in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter doesn’t mean it should be counted in the total of clutch shots attempted. Kobe has an uncanny ability to hit momentum swinging shots – sometimes they are to put the Lakers in the lead, other times and more often it seems as if he makes them when the Lakers are up by 2 or 3 points and halts the opposing teams comebacks. this I feel is what makes Kobe such a clutch shooter in our minds and something not reflected in the stats. The stats also count shots taken in the waning seconds of games that for these purposes should not be counted: shots like desperation heaves from half court and such.
Anyway, just my $0.02 and sorry for the long post!!
The Dude Abides says
72. Derek Fisher is a substantially better individual defender than Blake and a vastly better team defender.
kevin h says
Lakers should go for Anthony Randolph. I would love to see Gerald Wallace, Chris Bosh, and/or Amare Stoudemire on the Lakers. They should make some serious trades for All-Star caliber players.
Steve Blake anyone? Blazers already aiming to trade one of their 3 PGs… Think he accurately fits the description of a PG who can handle the ball going with a limited number of shots. He’s going to be a FA next year?
I like Noah and all, but when I see him shoot that sidespinning shot, I see a stubborn player who doesn’t want to evolve, change, improve himself. I don’t want another Shaq.
Darren Collison??? i think he would fit
P. Ami says
I think it speaks to the quality of this blog, and the relentless effort to moderate according to the standards set in the rules, that it took 75 comments before a trade speculation thread went from outside the box to unimaginatively absurd.
Chibi, some guys can work and work on certain skills and still only improve just a little. Motor skills are about wiring and some things cannot be rewired. Noah works his ass off, both in game and in practice. As great as Shaq was, I only saw one year of sustained effort from him while Noah bring that effort every game, and has since he entered the league (let alone in Florida). He is a limited player but I love what he does with what he has.
Igor Avidon says
You can forget about trading with the likes of Blazers or any potential contender.. nobody is going to give us anything to help us. And we don’t want their garbage.
here goes Abbott again trying to defend his article on Kobe yesterday…garbage.
Sean P. says
I vote for keeping the team we have, which is one of the most talented line-ups ever assembled in the NBA, and making a trade only if a steal presents itself.
Bynum/sasha for Hinrich/noah. That is crazy talk.
Against the Bucks the other night the announcers pointed out that last year when the Lakers came to town, Bynum had a 27-15 night (I didn’t check this). If he had done that on this Wed. would anyone be talking trade right now?
Just because he has had a few down games doesn’t mean you give up a championship nucleus for scraps (Heinrich, Noah). Don’t be blinded by the game Noah had against the Lakers Tues.
Last year at age 23, Noah averaged 7-8. Heinrich, at 27, averaged 10 and 4 assists.
If Gasol was still out, Bynum would still be a 20-10 player, with huge length.
Just curious, if Kobe and Pau had no injuries this year, what would the Lakers record be?
It ain’t broke.
If the Lakers need to trim payroll, they should trade Pau, while his value is at its peak, ideally for a tough rebounder and defender with a smaller contract, like his brother Marc. Maybe they can get another team or two involved in the deal and pick up a decent veteran backup at the 4/5 like Kwame and a young point guard like Javaris Crittenton to learn the system.
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
if we do this to Bynum
then bring him back in a couple of years will that solve our cap space problem?
re Abbott on Kobe’s clutchness, the flaws in his arguments have been dissected elsewhere. I do think he has a point in that Kobe’s percentage down the stretch is not especially good. But then, Kobe does not shoot a high % anyway. I think there are better shooters and scorers in a crunch, like Nash and Wade. B/c Kobe takes a lot of shots in crunch time, he makes a lot of them and misses a lot too. Kobe is not a great ball handler and has small hands, so he makes more turnovers in that situation that a Nash or Wade would. We tend to remember the makes, forgetting the misses and turnovers. As far as I know, no one has yet made a convincing statistical case either way for Kobe’s clutchness.
If you give the ball to Lebron and let him spread the floor and do his human cannonball routine, you’re probably more likely to get some points. What Kobe has is an uncanny ability to make really tough shots when the game is on the line. When you survey coaches etc on who they want to take the last shot, Kobe always comes out on top. I don’t think they’re just paying lip service or repeating conventional wisdom. It’s even more remarkable when you consider that Kobe is unlikely to pass in that situation. Kobe has never had a dead on outside shooter (Horry and Fish are clutch but really not high % shooters), and he has never had a scorer equal to him (Shaq would be hacked and not a good go to choice in that situation), so basically, he’s the one we want to take the last shot. EVERYONE and their grandma know he’s getting the ball and taking the shot, and he does it anyway. The Bucks game notwithstanding, he’ll have the best defender, or defenders, on him too.
as Yogi says, 90% of the game is half mental. The last shot is huge mentally, and Kobe’s got it in spades. Those Horry shots were certainly clutch, but it’s a different kind of clutch when the ball comes to you and you have to put it up without thinking much about it. When you have a time out or maybe two to contemplate the clock and score, and you walk out on court knowing it’s going to come down to you creating a shot and hitting it, that’s a different level of clutch that most guys don’t have.
My brother is a doctor and during his surgery training, he found there were two kinds of guys. There were the guys who might or might not be good surgeons technically and saw surgery as a job and could take it or leave it, and then there were guys who lived for it. They fought for cases, they got excited when they got to do something new. That would be Kobe; he lives for the big moments.
oh, and he also has the skills and experience to back up his desire and supreme confidence.
69. As much as I love him as a player, he’s not a good defender even in Europe, so you won’t have the D requirement. That said, he’s a great shooter, and as long as BB IQ, the guy is a genius.
I’m amazed though ( and I’ve expressed it here a couple of times) that someone like Sasha ( who wouldn’t play as a starter in any decent Euro team, not now and not ever) was able to get the contract a few years ago, while a guy like Navarro didn’t get a good enough offer to make him stay at the NBA…
Regarding trades, the first time I read Darius’s idea, I thought he was going out of the universe rather than out of the box with his thinking, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.
At the end, it’s almost impossible, but here I have another reason to tip my hat off to the GREAT DARIUS. Once again thx to you and the other clairvoyant minds around here for stopping by and enlight (and entertain) the rest of us. Alway a pleasure to visit this site.
haven’t had a chance to read all the comments yet. but i think ramon sessions could be a good option for the lakers. his contract is small enough that it wouldn’t be that big of a gamble.
I love Darren Collison, but I don’t think he fits our needs. While being speedy and a great defender with high IQ, he is undersized (for tri), needs the ball in his hands and does not have a great outside shot.
87. Sorry for the double post, but I couldn’t resist myself. Jodial be carefull to never bite your tongue, you could poison yourself and your whole neighbourhood for that matter.
It was really hilarious though. Pretty mean but hilarious nonetheless.
#80, I wanted to point out a flaw in Noah, in light of the idea of a bynum/noah swap.
i like noah a lot. He’s just as you described him, and he’s also charismatic and has great leadership potential. I root for the kid, but Noah ‘s freakish length and speed and motor will only take him so far.
What will guys like Noah and Varejao look like down the line, with their athleticism diminished, still bricking jumpers and free throws? They’re going to look ridiculous, like Shaq.
I’d rather gamble on Bynum. He’ll probably always be adequate at the very least, and in his twilight years his skills he already has will be more polished and refined.
Can’t we just trade Sasha, a towel boy, and a mop for Marc Gasol. Memphis likes to give us good deals, afterall.
Igor Avidon says
From the viewpoint of talent, yes, Bynum for Noah seems like an absurd suggestion. But there are intangibles out there that don’t show up on the stat sheet. Joakim has heart and hustle, and he’s always displaying it on both ends of the court. Andrew has his days when he decides to show up and he’s brilliant. Other nights, he’s either absent or earning his new nickname The Black Hole.
Even for you stat lovers.. look at the team needs and interpret the per-48 stats (from ESPN’s stat pages)
Andrew 24.3 pts/12.4rebs/1.9ast/2.38blck
Joakim 14.7 pts/16.9rebs/3.5ast/2.58blck
The only clear ‘advantage’ Andrew has is that he gets 9-10 points more a night, but that’s typically on a possession where he plays the role of The Black Hole. First of all, this is against the team concept and detrimental to the overall flow of offense. Second, we have a much better scorer and passer from the post – that guy from Spain, I forget his name. Third, we have a go-to wing guy who can score better than either of the post guys from virtually any spot on the floor.
Consider how Joakim gets his points. There’s no plays ran for him. He gets it purely off hustle plays and put backs. He’s averaging almost 6 OREB/48 mins compared to Andrew’s 4. And consider how much more active Joakim is on defense – he chases smaller guys down, runs to block/steal/tie up any loose ball, and isn’t afraid of any big moment. Don’t give me the length crap either, Joakim is almost as long and tries ten times harder than Andrew. The guy is just pure heart – and he’s born to win.
I’m not necessarily advocating shipping out Andrew – I’m just kind of playing devil’s advocate.. a scenario where we can get a solid starting point guard for a few years and a fantastic complimentary young power forward who continually exceeds expectations.
Chris J says
Charles Barkley was a black hole too; the ball stopped when he had it.
Cedric Ceballos was a good hustle player who scored a lot without having people run plays for him.
But would anyone have traded Barkley for Club Ced? No.
Joakim is a decent, complimentary-style player. No one will ever build a team around his skills, and I’d guess he’ll have a Brad Miller-like career, with lots of stops in places where he’s valued but no real mark left once the career has concluded.
Is he that different than a David Lee, whose skills were so unsought last summer that no one made a serious effort to sign him aside from the Knicks?
Bynum has the ability to be a dominant NBA center for a decade to come.
No disrespect meant to anyone, but this recent trend of trashing Bynum or failing to appreciate what he brings to the table really is disconcerting.
He’s a seven-foot monster with dozens of low post moves and great hands who is anchoring the D on the league’s best team. He’s 22, and he’s only going to get better. Franchise centers are rare; you don’t just piss that away because he’s not the rebounder some suggest he should be at this point in his career.
another possible good fit would be jerryd bayless. he played really well last night.
Gasol has agreed to the three year extension:
I think some people are missing the point behind the Bynum talk. First, let me be clear – I am on the side of firmly keeping Bynum. The guy has perennial All-Star written all over him and has so much room to grow.
No one wants to “give” Bynum away. The debate is about optimizing our team fit now, or trying to keep a monster for the future. Believe it or not, we are allowed to think and discuss ideas in a post-Stalin world.
The questions brought up are legitimate. Do we maximize Drew and Pau’s talent when they play together? The answer, flat-out, is no. There’s no getting around that. Drew doesn’t rebound nearly as well, and Pau doesn’t get nearly enough touches.
Having said that, although they don’t max their talents together, they are good enough (with Kobe) to win a championship. And that, I think, is worth the plus of having an All-Star center around for a decade.
To answer Darius’ question – it’s impossible to say how far Bynum will go, seeing how much potential he has. Right now, I’d say no – he won’t be a Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem type. He won’t be the best player on a championship team, but it’s hard to say for sure.
I understand the sentiment. A defender/rebounder type would be a better fit next to Gasol. But you never get equal value in return for a player like Bynum, and I just can never see the Lakers doing it. I do understand both sides though.
The speculation about trading Bynum away has led me to drink.
Bynum/Sasha for Noah/Hinrich is ridiculous. I would love to see the look on Mitch’s face when that question pops up… Noah is essentially a younger Varajao and Hinrich is an older Reddick… My goodness…
Bynum for Varajao and Reddick? Really?
As a thought exercise, the players that you would not be crazy trading Bynum for:
At Center: Howard.
At Forward: Lebron.
At Guard: Paul or Williams.
That is the entire list, honestly. No one else is skilled enough + talented + young enough to make sense.
Be serious for a moment. If Bynum had been playing at this level during last year’s playoffs would we have lost a game? Would we have lost to the Celtics the year before? I sincerely doubt it.
He has an off-week or two adjusting to Pau while having some sort of illness and some of our fans are packing bags and buying a ticket out of town for the 22 year old?
I better make it a double, my head hurts now.
Have a goodnight all!
j. d. hastings says
Could have saved some time here if the first commenter just posted a list of all PGs in the league. I think we’ve covered them all otherwise. The fact that anybody has tried talking themselves into Duhon worries me. But it’s more intellectually honest than people saying “Player X is really good, why don’t we grab him” as if the league is the Lakers’ personal buffet (aside from the whole Pau thing).
As I see it, the best case scenario will have the Lakers making a trade for some throw in their scouts see potential in who blossoms here, like Ariza or Shannon. I sure as hell can’t name that player.
But here’s a thought- the Lakers have their own D-League team and as far as I recall have never called up a player they didn’t relegate there in the first place. Meanwhile players like CJ Watson, Kelena Azuibuike, Anthony Morrow and Ramon Sessions have been found there. They don’t come any cheaper or more motivated than those kids. If they’re on the D-Fenders, they’ve had experience in the triangle. Why not?
New Gasol Post up short but I’l be adding
Cameron S says
What about a sign and trade for a big name this summer. I know Bynum is a solid player, but I am not sold on him and I know other teams would be happy to get him. What about a Odom/Bynum sign and trade for LBJ?
Think about that…Kobe, LBJ, Gasol, and Artest on the same team for 4 at least 4 years. That is as close to a garuntee in the NBA as there is.
Just try imagining La Bomba’s game in the Triangle… it would be a beautiful thing. His integration into the Triangle would be as seamless as Pau’s was, maybe even more so if you can believe it.
You’re right about him defensively… but if he’s playing within a defensive team concept like the Lakers have, he’s no more of a liability than Farmar or Fisher. Let’s face it, a shut down point guard just doesn’t exist in today’s game. On the other hand, Navarro’s offensive polish is better than any other realistic option the Lakers can get right now… and he’d be the best offensive threat they’d have had at that position since Nick Van Exel.
Interesting point about the contracts. I was shocked to find out that Navarro’s salary for the one year he played in the NBA was only around 500k. I mean… that’s just ridiculous.
It seems this current Lakers roster is what it’ll be by seasons end. With Morrison and Farmar’s contracts expired, if Kupchak kept Fisher and signed Navarro and Tony Gaffney using the MLE… I’d absolutely consider that more of an upgrade than any other scenario being thrown about. Only getting Hinrich could be comparable, but a) Chicago won’t take Morrison/Farmar/Vujacic and b) considering Hinrich’s current contract, it would be more reasonable to wait until he became a free agent.
About this whole Kirk/Noah for Bynum business… that trade would be a step back for the Lakers in a time where the elite teams are stepping forward. I’m having a really hard time imagining opposing coaches/teams feeling like they had no chance at the thought of having to go up against a ” Gasol/Noah” front court tandem.
Why do some people seem to already be convinced that Bynum and Gasol can’t grow to complement each other, or that Bynum can’t become a great rebounder and defensive presence?
It bears repeating that Bynum is 22 years old, and has only been a regular starter for 100 games or so. Hell, he’s only played 235 NBA games, period! Of course he has warts in his game and attitude, but in we haven’t even given him as much as 2 full seasons to show he can iron them out. Based on the progress he’s already made so far, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Now I like Noah and Hinrich as players, but they aren’t worth giving up on Bynum at this stage, especially after all that investment in him. Even if Bynum is a stat-chasing, non-passing, sometimes-rebounding ‘Black Hole’ 5 years from now, he’ll still be able to pull a better return in a trade than that, as long as he stays healthy. Conversely, if that Hinrich/Noah trade doesn’t work out in the short term, you’ve significantly reduced your chances of remaining competitive once this current group has made its run.
One final thought: we’d all like an upgrade at the point, but how much of an impact can that player really make? His job would consist of setting up the offense (sometimes), hitting open shots, and playing good defense – and very few PGs can make that big of a difference defensively anyway with the current rules. With all that in mind, I don’t think it’s worth giving up a major asset like Bynum just it to improve the least important position on the court (as far as this team is concerned).
Mitch will either have to try and find another bargain or stick with what he has. It’s not ideal, but hey, you can’t have everything…
For those who think Bynum has “potential” . . . what specifically will it take for you to finally admit that he hasn’t met it on the Lakers and probably never will?
I mean . . . is it enough to just keep SAYING that he has it?
If, for example, he does no more than 12 points and 5 rebounds for next 2 years (the best case scenario, I think, playing next to Gasol) . . . will you finally admit that he doesn’t fit on this team?
Two Finals and one Championship without Bynum — demonstrably, we can win without him.
But can we win without finding someone to replace Fisher . . .?
Bynum for Noah and Hinrich . . . isn’t that bad a deal.
bynum can not be accurately evaluated until he’s at least 25 years old.
The consensus of this thread is that Kurt Heinrich would be the best long term pg to partner with Derek Fisher, but he’s too expensive. Here’s the logic of a deal that might make Heinrich affordable:
Chicago could be a trade partner for the Lakers. They might be willing to trade Heinrich to free up cap space.
The Lakers have an expiring contract this year and one next year (Morrison, Vuyacic).
A trade would generate an immediate reduction of about $1 Million for the Lakers and an effective cap reduction for the Bulls of about $5 million.
By not having to pay Vuyacic’s salary next year or this year, Heinrich would only cost the Lakers about $4.5 million.
I think something like this could happen.
Hinrich is definitely the best long-term option. He can play the off-guard in different lineups, is solid defensively at both guard spots, and I strongly believe his numbers this year are a deviation from his norms, or simply a reflection of the “offense” (a high screen for Rose or lots of isos) that Chicago runs. The Blog-a-Bull regulars were convinced that nearly all the Bulls players were “trying out” for the Lakers, so-to-speak, as there was much more consistent effort across the board despite the malaise that was present for the previous ten games or so. That might be a better standard by which to judge Hinrich’s play.
Again, the only question is the cost, although drrayeye is right that we should remember that we’re paying Hinrich’s contract minus Vujacic’s contract (plus the difference in the luxury tax bill), so that does help somewhat. Also, Hinrich’s contract is front-loaded, so it will decrease next year, although it still will be overly expensive.
Buss has been fairly cost-conscious lately, but I can fully imagine him giving the green light to Kupchak to do this if it was available. He’s never shown an aversion to spend for a winner, and while most of this talk is idle speculation (as we’re not entirely certain to what extent Buss wants to cut payroll), it wouldn’t surprise me if he agreed to do this.
A pair of trade threads at SS&R and BaB discussed a similar trade a few days ago:
Past Hinrich, what about Keyon Dooling? He essentially brings a lot of the same strengths as Hinrich for a cheaper bill, although I’d argue that Hinrich is better overall.
Got a trade idea:
1) Sasha Vujajcic
1) Corey Maggette
2) Anthony Randolph
Warriors want to get rid of both those players and take on less salary. The lakers could offer that by Ammo and and Vujacic because they have less years on their contracts. Randolph’s is two, Maggette is four. Randolph makes about 1.7 mil and maggette makes about 8.5 mil. Ammo and Sasha make about 5.2 mil and 5 mil. So, the numbers work out.
Alex Halikias says
Reading through this trade speculation thread, I appreciate why we don’t usually have these.
Bynum for anyone less than LBJ or a top-5 player, is simply not going to happen. 22-year old 7-footer budding all stars with 7’6″ reach, good hands, and already refined post moves don’t come along often. The Lakers resisted trading Bynum 2 years ago when he was much more raw for a future HoF – Jason Kidd, even risked losing Kobe in the process. How can anyone think they’ll trade him for complementary players like Noah/Hinrich when he could be an all star for the next 10-14 years? Let’s stop the nonsense.
Because of the time it takes to develop a player in the triangle and LA being absolutely focused on winning now, the point guard and backup point guard are already on the roster. Brown and Fisher will reverse roles when ready. IMHO Brown will take the out and re-sign for the Lakers long term with a big chunk of the MLE, may have even been pre-arranged. DFish signs for less, may be $2-3M (not min), for 2 years, effectively swapping spots and salaries.
Any trades made will be opportunistic, and for salary relief purposes. Ammo, cash and a 1st-round pick for a Thunder 2020 2nd, that type of deal. Sasha and $3M for an expiring contract (good luck). Luke, unlike Sasha, is more valuable to the Lakers because he fits a role. LA would still trade him for an expiring contract, but otherwise not just to make a trade. Farmar will stay through the year, because, unless Memphis wants to give us OJ Mayo (we still have the incriminating pictures, you know), a similar point guard that does not know the system is of lesser value toward the Win-Now goal. Disrupting Win-Now makes no sense just to improve your 3rd string point guard. Doing a Jordan sign-and-trade at season’s end for a raw talent on the rookie scale is possible but unlikely. Farmar walks (by far most likely), or re-signs for at/under $1.8M (conceivable).
Just to add to crazy talk, I liked Sam Smith’s piece from a few weeks ago a lot. Trading Bynum and another piece (Artest/Odom) for LBJ and a bad salary is more likely that any of the other trades I’ve read above. If LBJ decides to leave, a sign-and-trade becomes a win-win. Cavs get from LA more than anything Miami has to offer, and Lebron gets to form the greatest lineup in history. But no, I am not holding my breath, just having fun.
Forget potential. Bynum is one of the top 5 centers in the league right now, with or without Gasol.
It’s amazing how impatient some of you are. How many big men do you know that have ‘met their potential’ at 22 years old, after NBA 150 starts, with no college experience? What Bynum has already shown so far is a lot more impressive than some of you seem to believe.
#103 just killed this conversation.
Monta Ellis would also be a good fit…very athletic n has good height for pg position he can also shoot the deep ball…he’s unhappy with his situation in gs n farmar plays a similar style of ball that would allow him to fit in in gs we could trade farmar n Morrison for Ellis
I’m not seeing the big urgency here. Keep Fish around for at least 2 more years, while dropping his minutes (he is still clutch and his leadership is second to none, not to mention keeping Kobe grounded).
Keep Shannon Brown who seems to have a great attitude and listens to Kobe. Give Fishers minutes to Brown and eventually he becomes the starter at a reasonable price.
No deal necessary.
I don’t think the Lakers should do anything because when healthy they are the best team in the league and big favorite to when the championship with zero “know your role” or chemistry problems. Why mess with that?
Additionally, they have Bynum who is getting better and could develope into a #1 type star.
What worries me is long term depth. We have not been drafting the last two years and with no salary room we may not for a while. So if there were any trades I would want to see it would be to clear salary and acquire young role players or low draft draft picks. Besides Farmer I don’t see any players who would have that type of value and I have not given up on Farmer yet. He’s playing better this year and I still remember him stepping up in last year’s playoffs against Houston. I know the odds are the situation will not work out and he’ll be gone next year but I would prefer to let that play out.
In any event after this season the Lakers will need to focus on replacing their depth with younger inexpensive players much the way Walton, Turiaf , & Bynum were before geting bigger contracts.
Lakers could try to trade with the Nets for Brook Lopez and Chris Douglas-Roberts and give them Mbenga,Sasha, and Walton. The Lakers will just have to live with Morrison and Artest for now, since they did not get Ariza back this year. Farmar should go to Golden State for Curry or Morrow.
Although there are some positives for the Noah/Kirk for Bynum trade, I don’t think it makes us a better team against the elite teams (Orlando, Cavs, Celtics). Noah & Gasol is not going to intimidate KG & Perkins, or D Howard, or even Shaq.
We should (and will) keep Bynum.
As for our PG situation, Ramon Sessions, Chris Duhoun, JJ Reddick, J Critt are pretty good options for just Ammo.
It seems most people on this site are heavily overrating Bynum. His stats don’t even remotely match the salary we are paying him, and he doesn’t seem to be improving very quickly.
I looked at every player in the league and also their advanced stats. I came up with 7 underrated guards who might help us, and 7 trades for Bynum that would be likely to improve the team.
CJ Watson, Anthony Morrow, Sergio Rodriguez, Luther Head, Bobby Brown, Acie Law, Steve Blake.
Al Horford and Mike Bibby
Lou Williams and Thaddeus Young
Gerald Wallace and Raymond Felton
What’s funny is that many Laker fans would say no to all these trades, yet Bogut might be the only player on that list whose team would be willing to make that trade for Bynum. We should at least try though while he still has decent trade value.
A lot of people didn’t follow the directions: Be creative but be realistic. The Lakers will not trade Bynum, not until they can figure out how good he is. He already showed how important big man depth is when Pau was out of the lineup. He is a great finisher around the basket, has post moves, and can finish with either hand. His defense is suspect, but it isn’t bad.
Lakers will not do anything this year or try to “improve” their point guard situation. Morrison will come off the books after this year and we’ll see what else happens with the other role players. Farmar is the only bait the Lakers have because he is a good point guard with speed.
Looking at the landscape, there are no realistic trades this year.
The best point guards in the league right now are Nash, C-Paul, D. Williams, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, D. Rose and J. Kidd. None of these point guards fit the Lakers system.
Fisher is not just adequate for this system, he fits it perfectly. He is not as fast, but he plays physical defense, can get into position to take charges, and makes clutch shots. Fisher will keep games close and he doesn’t make mental mistakes that lose games either.
Guarding quick point guards in this league cannot be done by a single guy. I challenge anyone to name me a lock down point guard defender in this league.
I say we re sign Fisher. His defensive liabilities are not as great as people think. Plus, keep Shannon Brown. He has the size that Phil Jackson likes in a point guard (think Ron Harper) and seems to like playing in a system (probably because he rode the pine in cleveland and charlotte) and understands what it means to be part of a winner. Farmar will help us get this year’s championship and be free to play for the Charlotte’s or the Memphis’ of the league.
Sadly, we’re stuck with Sasha. I don’t mind being stuck with Luke because Luke makes the offense move in the second unit.
Lets take it easy laker fans. WE can’t be perfect. We have the best record of the league. And Fish has hit a few clutch shots this year.
Once DFish decides to retire Shannon Brown is in my opinion perfect for our system. Shoots 6-10 times a game, but mostly high percentage shots. He crashes the boards excellently for a PG and can jump out of the building. Sometimes a little sloppy, but lately he has been coming off the bench giving us well needed boosts. Shannon Brown is as athletic as they come, he is a Shooting Guard by nature, if he can understand he is a POINT GUARD in the NBA then and only then will he be perfect for the Laker organization.
Another player I am high on is Ronnie Brewer from the Jazz, he is another lockdown defender that has a great mid-range game. He is top 10 in the league in steals and is all around a smart player.
Given the Lakers league leading W-L record, it is hard for me to imagine them trading any players in the starting rotation. That suggests that Farmar and Brown are safe for the moment.
Of those not in the starting rotation, only Morrison and Vujacic have substantial salaries.
If they were traded for Heinrich this season, the rotation could be preserved, with Heinrich in learning mode.
As a further effort to control costs, either Farmar (most likely) or ShanWOW (if he doesn’t sign) would be released when the season ended.
Andrew–I agree with you 100 %. I don’t understand what is everyones infatuation with getting another pg. Shannon Brown is playing excellent ball and I think getting him more experience and more minutes in pressure situations is what we should be doing. Hes very athletic and a crowd favorite. He is fast as hell. If they work with him and get him to control the situation at hand you have your starting future pg. Farmar on the other hand is a good role player but not for this system. I feel bad but I think Farmar is out after this season.
Gasol and Bynum playing together is overkill. They do alot of the same things. Watching Gasol and Odom run the offense is a thing of beauty. I jus hope in time Bynum learns from playing with two great passing big men. YET Gasol and Odom are versatile enough that it all works out. Gasol adjusts his game when Bynums on the floor very well.
IF we were to trade Bynum. My suggestion would be looking at Toronto as an option if their record doesnt improve. Bosh is in his contract year and he might not be satisfied staying on a team thats not showing much improvement in the win department.
Bynum, Farmar and Sasha for Bosh, Jack and Bellineli.
Getting equal value for a player like Bosh would be next to impossible but this is as close as it gets. They’d be desperate so they might accept Sasha’s deal.
We’d get a great back up PG in Jack who can fit in the triangle also has the ability to finish at the basket and
Bellineli is definitely an upgrade over Sasha.
Plus we all kno Phil loves Bosh. He was almost fined (not sure if he actually did get fined) for saying he’d want Bosh on the Lakers a few years back.
I’ve been in London, so I’m a bit behind, and this discussion may be dead, but I have to say that I am quite surprised that there weren’t more nea thrown out there that would fit into the Ron Harper – B Shaw mold.
The list doesn’t look particularly impressive, but I recall being a bit puzzled when Chicago got Harper. A wick look at the list of guards brings up the following guys who would fit that mold on some way (in addition to Hienrick and Morrow, who have been mentioned):
If Phil went to Mitch and said I want that guy, I’d be totally ok with any name on that list (yes, even Hughes).
Jay Jay says
You don’t trade Bynum…
You don’t trade Bynum…
You don’t trade Bynum except for LeBron or Superman II. Of course I am being a bit over-the-top but the many posts I read in which Bynum was even mentioned as a trade piece, suffer from a short sightedness problem. There is no other “embodiment of the future,” other than Bynum. “Ariza,” may have fit that mold but Ariza is gone. In the next few years you may see a natural transition from Kobe as the focal point to Drew … so Drew is off the table. In terms of a PG, I have always been intrigued by KH / Chic Bulls. Very good defender, heady player, a coach on the floor etc. good not great outside shot kind of a combo-type guard. Unless Buss wants to pay more in luxury tax … I just don’t see it happening. However much sense it seems to make (its his money not mine). Otherwise, all these other half measures of point guards really is not an upgrade to what they have now folks.
A trade that works on the ESPN trade machine that might not be flashy but would be perfect is Ammo’s expiring contract and Josh Powell for Rony Turiaf and C J Watson. Watson is 6 ‘2″, has very good speed, plays good defense, and does not need the ball in his hands, and can hit the three at close to 40%. In hollingers opinion, “As such, he’s much more of a catch-and-shoot, off-the-ball point guard than a pure playmaker — a triangle offense point guard, basically. ”
Rony, who we all know and love, is a great triangle passer, good off ball defender and shot blocker, excellent energy and bench guy, and good finisher around the basket. He is basicallt the anti Powell. I think Powell might have more range on his set shot, but Rony is not bad squared up from 15 feet either. Plus, I think Powell is the worst finisher in the basket area, he gets his shot blocked more than ROn ROn, who looks like a overweight bull in a china shop. Trading Ammo would neccesitate a healthy Walton as AMmo is the only backup to ROn at the SF. Or, they could sign Stackhouse to be another vet off the bench at the 3
I miss Ariza, so am hoping Ron Ron proves his worth guarding Carmelo, Lebron and Pierce like advertised.
81 Witness says
A lot of you seem to be down on Farmar, but according to 82 games, Farmar is the best PG on the Lakers:
Why would you want to trade your best option? Have you not watched the end of third to start of the fourth quarters this last month?
Houston wants to get rid of Tracy McGrady because of potential Chemistry Issues. Philly wants to get rid of Elton Brand because they paid too much for a guy who was a work horse not a thoroughbred. Brand fits better in Houston and they are willing to take on more years to get rid of T-Mac. Perfict fit! Now comes the contracts. LA wants to reduce payroll, they get rid of the dead weight on the bench in (I’d rather Jim) Morrison and Sasha “The Miss-chine” Vujacic for a sharp-shooter with no “D” in Jason Kapono (another ex-UCLA player – which usually works out in LA – see Baron Davis, Farmar, Ariza, Jelani McCoy, Trevor Wilson). Okay maybe I’m kidding about the last two.
Back to the trade. Farmar probably leaves via free agency so go save Jarvis Crittenton from Washington (he already knows the system) throw in filler to make the contracts work (trade exceptions) and voila!!! You have great trades for everyone. I dare anyone to beat it!!!.
Why not go overseas and bring back the NBA vet Juan Carlos Navarro. Dude can shoot, he has good bball IQ, and he’s tight with Pau-pau. Im sure he’d kill for a chance at a ring with his best friend by his side. I just hope he still has the skills.
Another option would just to go big with Kobe at the point, Ron at SG, Odom at SF, Pau at PF and Bynum in the middle. No one will be able to score against them, but they’d have trouble vs teams that zone.
Finally, maybe they can trade away odom and some other pieces to dallas for terry and kris humphries. Or to Chicago for Hinrich (I think he’d be perfect too) and Taj Gibson.
More than anything, you need someone who can stop penetration without needing help on D. Thabo Sefalosha would be nice. Another Thunder player who could would be nice, if he recovers from his injuries suffienently, is Shaun Livingston.
I vote Roger Mason, Jr. for my outside the box PG acquisition. He is a free agent at the end of this season and can do what the Lakers would need from him: hit open 3s.
Morrow would be awesome, but there is no way he’s going to be available to the Lakers.
I just read this says
The Lakers shouldn’t screw with their chemistry this year. They are the favorites to win it all – no sense making a desperation move.
Morrow is a bad fit. While he is absolutely lights out from downtown, his ball handling, passing, and defense are suspect. He couldn’t play the point, even on the Lakers.
Looking for cheap PG who play defense and is not going to make everyone think that the Lakers are pulling another Pau trade, They could look at Royal Ivey. He is on a cheap contract, has good size for the position and has played well when given the chance.
Non traditional player could be Weaver from OKC. seems to be the one on the outside looking in.