Sigh.
For a team that will need to be as healthy as possible to achieve what they want to this season, things aren’t off to that great a start on that front:
More bad news for Lakers: MRI revealed Steve Nash has small non-displaced fracture in head of fibula in left leg. He's out at least a week.
— Mike Bresnahan (@Mike_Bresnahan) November 3, 2012
For a team that can’t afford to have any injuries to its top players, this is obviously a major blow. Add it to Kobe nursing an extremely sore foot and Dwight’s back still not 100% and the Lakers are in a position, early in the season, where things are not breaking their way (no pun intended).
We’ll have more on this over the next couple of days, for sure.
Funky Chicken says
Add Jordan Hill’s obviously still bad back and this team is at risk of being bad for a long time.
JD says
While it’s frustrating for sure…I’m still of the mind that this team figures it out despite Mike Browns perplexing rotations, game management, and overall inability to make in game adjustments.
Kevin_ says
Live it looked like regular nba contact. Nash will never be the same and Lakers won’t get the guy they paid for. Puts more pressure on Kobe to have games like last night’s. I think a move has to be made of some kind. That’s too much pressure on Kobe this early in the season.
Robert says
Seems obvious, but I have not seen it mentioned. The Clippers have a total of 4 ex-Lakers – 5 if you count Paul : )
3 of the those ex-Lakers were part of our inept, slow bench in the last couple of years. The 4th guy was part of the Shaq trade so I think he has been around a while. So I think if these guys were wearing Laker colors, 3 of them would be called old/inept/slow and 1 of them would be just called old and slow. Somehow however wearing Clipper colors they logged 79 minutes against us in a game where the Clips beat us soundly. I wonder what the difference is? Could it be the uniforms? : )
Howie says
Over time they will get better, but I still don’t think Brown is the guy. I would be open to ending the Brown experiment and go another direction. My choice would be Mike D’Antoni. He and Nash together had a 232-96 record and were in the top 3 (#1 in 2006) in the league in assists to turnovers ratio.
Scorchee says
Weird, so what you guys are saying is that, just like last season:
-MB can’t create a steady rotation
-Can’t make adjustments from game to game to take advantage of their next opponents weaknesses.
-Can’t make in game adjustments (sticking with things that work and adjusting thing that aren’t working)
-Can’t rest his star players (whether in a blowout situation or not)
When does the FO realize this is a trend? When does the FO salvage the season by replacing him (if their is a coaching upgrade available)?
DJ says
When MB left Cleveland, newspaper in Cleveland reported that MB’s rotation were a mess, LeBron wanted MB to use JJ Hickson more. Same thing in LA from last year to this year, Lakers fan kept talking about MB’s rotation.
When Phil took over Lakers in 2000, he did too many right things, Lakers did not have many turn over, when Kobe a mistake, Phil called timeout and he was mad at Kobe , with some new players but Phil still can made them play well together in a short period of time, that’s the great coaching. At the end of 3rd yesterday, Lakers already had 15 TO, look at Kobe and other players, they pass the ball from this side to other side of the floor like doing practice, you can’t do that when you play against the good team, MB can’t let players do stupid things on the floor, he is the head coach, and he is not friend of ANY players on this Lakers team. I don’t know what MB teached in practice but i saw this Lakers team (same like last year) playing with no discipline . First five years of Phil in LA is an good example of NBA coaches who want to learn how to become a good coach. If Lakers play a big game, Phil’s team is always ready from the first quarter to the end.
Treylake says
Agree MB does know how to develop a rotations or use roster personnel to win games. He was clearly out coached by George Karl in playoffs. He did nothing to assist Lakers beat Thunder. MB is worse than useless because he makes terrible coaching decisions. Eddie Jordan is much better.
Lakers need PG production.
Can MB develop a young talent like Darius Morris?
Lakers can’t win big with Blake as lead guard.
Kenny T says
When I look at Mike Brown, I see quiet desperation. This is a man who doesn’t inspire confidence in his team. Now, the injury to Steve Nash gives him another excuse for not winning. I have League Pass, and although it’s a small sample size, just looking at the other teams around the NBA, I see teams that are a lot better prepared and more efficient than the Lakers. And, I’m not talking about the top teams like the Heat. I’m talking Bucks, Hornets and Cavs. Tonight, the Warriors are giving the Clippers a much better game than the Lakers did. Mike is running out of time quickly. You can’t fire the whole team.
A major problem for the Lakers is that they have been good for so long. As such, they have not benefited from the draft at all in recent years. The fact that two 2nd round picks made the team this year shows how desperate the team is for an infusion of youth. Teams that have been lousy for a long time wind up picking earlier in the draft on
multiple occasions. Eventually those young players bear fruit. The Lakers haven’t had the luxury of allowing young guys to play through their mistakes. Guys like Ebanks and Morris may have a good future but without playing time and the requisite growing pains it is hard to tell.
As I’m writing this comment, I’m watching the Warriors go up 10 vs. the Clips in the 4th. Right now, every team I see looks better than the Lakers.
Chearn says
Why did anyone assume that Dwight would look like his old self? The last time he played a game of basketball was in March, he had back surgery and was rushed into playing for the Lakers. I for one thought that they should not have brought him back to play in games for at least two more weeks. It takes time to heal. He will not be confident in his movements and what he can do on the court for at least another 10-15 games. He’s ahead of schedule, remember he was not projected to be back until January. So it is not inconceivable to believe that he will not play like he did in Orlando until then. By then the Lakers will have a new head coach.
Kobe’s injury concerns me because he never says that he’s injured and for him to say that his foot feels like it’s falling off is worrisome. Nash’s injury is another source of angst.
On another note: The Clippers are playing Golden State at home and Golden State is up by one with 40.5 seconds. I’m sure they’ll win because they get free throws. Barnes fouls Jack for two free throws. Paul drives to the hole for two the score is 111 Golden State and 110 Clippers.
Scorchee says
It’s not about developing Morris right now and it’s not about getting draft picks, It’s about the team’s goal this year. They want to win a championship.
Mike Brown (through 90+ games as a Laker coach) has shown he cannot due specific things that most other coaches can do (rotation, in-game adjustments, pregame adjustments, playing to team and player strengths/weaknesses, ect).
Mike Brown is a good defensive coach (although every team Lebron has been on has been great defensively, so all of the Cavs’ defensive credit can’t simply be given to MB)
The bottom line is, if their is a suitable replacement available then the Lakers should strongly consider a coaching change. (Phil, Larry Brown (please!!!!), Jerry Sloan… that’s about it)
…
But we all know what’s going to happen:
1) A few rocky wins with 40+ minutes from Kobe, Pau and Dwight.
2) A sense that “the team is getting it” will emerge
3) No Change/Same Problems
Ko says
Simply: one of my business partners is part of the Retired NBA Players association. Last wek was their annual meeting in Chicago. I asked him to poll all the ex-Lakers. Nixon, Wilkes, Erickson and several more. He said it was unanimous. They all agreed that Brown is way over his head and clearly the wrong coach for this team and this roster. Every single guy!
Name one bench player in 2 years that got better playing for brown? Now start naming the players that ate better when the left.
Brown is a videographer. Nothing more and this team clearly dosen’t like playing or listening to him. Just look at the lakers 3rd quarter numbers. They are getting out scored 2 to 1. His have time babbling no doubt as comical as his post game baloney speeches.
Can his incompetence be any more obvious?
Robert says
Scorchee: I agree and that is exactly the problem with the “give it some more time” view. If we beat lowly Detroit, does that right the ship? How much more time do we give it? Are we going to make additional time allowances for the injuries? Are we going to make additional time allowances for the new offense? For me, it is not about beating the Pistons (although we need to desperately), or being 500 by a certain date. What it is about, is showing some signs of life in the areas of defense, transition, and effort. It is about showing some semblance of consistency in the rotations (as rr pointed out). We have seen none of this.
I would of course be good with PJ, and I would also like Dantoni. I would not favor Sloan, or VG. I guess I would be middle of the road towards Brown. Can we bribe the Pacers for Shaw and undo the mistake we originally made?
Kevin_ says
Lakers 3rd qtrs
-27 pt differential. 15 TO’s, 22 fouls, 21/50 fg 42%, 15/26 FT’s
Opp. 34/59 fg 57%, 15 off. rebounds
Lots of self inflicted wounds there and that’s where the games are lost. I agree Ko.
Robert: I’d prefer D’Antoni or Sloan. If a move was made it should be someone who can fix the defense too. The offense hasn’t been so bad but I wouldn’t mind D’Antoni.
Tra says
Not shocked @ all by the MRI results. Viewing the collision that caused the injury on replay, I was surprised that one, he tried to start the 2nd half and two, with the initial diagnosis (Leg Bruise). Looked to me as if the contact forced the side of his knee to ‘buckle’ inwards. Which could have caused more structural damage. In the big scheme of things, we’re fortunate that it’s just a ‘small non-displaced fracture in head of fibula ..’ Could have been much worse. Now the question becomes, HOW long will he be out? All reports have stated ‘@ least a week’ .. However, there isn’t anything definitive within these statements.
Hopefully, starting tonight ‘gainst the Pistons, we can start stringing together some victories. This will alleviate the pressure of Nash coming back too soon because we’ll definitely need him in the long run.
Radius says
Regardless of the contempt of the fans and ex-players, I highly doubt the FO will make what would be a desperate move by management as firing a head coach 3 games into the season. It would take a perfect situation for a new coach to come in. Also, can anyone here guarantee that a new coach (with new system, philosophy, habits) would produce better results? No one here can guarantee that. And if you try, then you drink your own kool-aid too much.
Sadly, bball is a process, one made more difficult with 3 new pieces that play a pivotal role. I was not a fan of the lack of Steve Nash pick n rolls in the first two games, but truly: defense was the biggest issue the Lakers are facing. That makes me question/doubt Brown’s defensive prowess, but I expect the defense to start shorin up because of D Howard back there.
Bottom Line: you can bitch and moan about Coach Brown, but you cant change the coach. And you cant guarantee that bringing in a new coach would produce better results.
Shaun says
What will everyones view be if we somehow lose to Detroit?
We will play 16 games between now and december – what does our record need to be for brown to keep his job? – in the next 13 games we will play 6 playoff teams and the rest are lottery to fringe playoff teams – if we lost to every playoff team and won every other game we would be 7-9 – this should be the minimum standard for brown to keep his job and this is even being generous as it is assuming we will lose to playoff teams – if we don’t at least have this record he’s gone
Robert says
Kevin: Certainly I would take Sloan over what we now have, but somehow his lunch pail approach (while perhaps needed) does not blend well with the LAL mantra.
Defense: Isn’t it ironic that we are talking about this being a big problem. DH is an annual DPOY and every writer predicted him as such this year. Even at 80% he is still probably the best in the league at this position. KB is 2nd team all NBA and even if you say that is on reputation, that is made up for by the fact that MWP is underrated. Nash and Pau and weak but they are vets, and if you team them with 3 good individual defenders, then they should be able to play good team D. How many teams can field a better group than that on paper? Now when we get on the floor – different story. Isn’t that what coaching is all about? Getting the most out of your players? We have not instilled any urgency, we are not putting players in positions to succeed on Defense, we are not taking advantage of DH (even at 80%), and we have no in game adjustments to shut down the opposing players who are hot. Other than that – we are fine.
Radius: No- we can’t guarantee that a coaching change will work. Huge risk in doing it. However – thre is no “guarantee” that sticking with MB will work either, so I am not sure what that proves. You are correct that it would look desperate to fire the coach a few games into the season. The reason is because we are desperate : )
Edwin Gueco says
IMO, with or without Nash, Lakers will still lose to athletic teams. There is an inherent problem that needs to be addressed. I don’t want to appear as a broken record but it is really up to your basketball eye to make the conclusion. 0-11 is not a fluke nor 0-3 in a regular season with All Star caliber in the starting line up. I see team work in other teams while confusion and lack of defense on the Laker team. Solve that problem.
Darius, the format was improved but there seems to be a problem in your blog, sometimes it freezes or totally eliminates posts without any warning. I have to hit refresh several times to activate it while you see cookies sites like zedo activated as well. I don’t know whether this occurs to others.
Edwin Gueco says
I try to take advantage to post again because I saw my post appeared. I just want to comment on what Ko said that he talked to ex Laker stars. Ko, you’re really influential to interview all those ex stars. Assuming it is true which I trust that you are telling the truth, I want to add on past year bench like Ebanks, McRob, Kapono, Murphy and Luke. Except for McRob and Devin perhaps we could all agree the other three have passed their prime and they’re too slow to help the Lakers. However, if you looked at PJ’s roster with Bulls in 90’s, he has those type of players and was able to use them productively that contributed to six championships. Let’s not go far and revisit the 08-09 roster composed of Powell, Mbenga, Brown, Farmar, Vujacic, Luke again he was able to utilize these players helped Kobe & the Lakers to leap frog to the Finals without the full service of Bynum.
Let’s look at our 2nd team roster – Hill, Jamison, Meeks, Blake, Duhon, Morris, Ebanks. It appears that after three games + eight preseason games, they looked like washed out w/o any confidence in their game and completely done by 3rd Q.. Not even closely competitive to any of the three teams that we met. Therefore, what Ko said may be true because Wilkes played with the best coaches in College and NBA. Another way of knowing it, ask any HOF’er and they’d give you an honest assessment of the Lakers at this time.
sharky towers says
Scorchee-
I couldn’t agree more. I’m not as concerned with 0-3 as I am with the body of evidence that shows that Mike Brown just is not a good “in game” coach and is very questionable as a leader. My guess is the FO knows this, but admitting as much this early is probably not the play.
This is how things will likely go: the Lakers finally put it all together and start rolling by the AS break. Mike Browns seat will cool considerably. Then all of these issues we see with him will rear their ugly head in the Playoffs and the Lakers will fall short of the title.
I hope I’m wrong. It’s been known to happen.
Scorchee says
Radius, ” …you cant guarantee that bringing in a new coach would produce better results.”
Your comment is 100% correct. However, just like my inability to guarantee that I won’t win the lotto, there seems to be some strong evidence on the contrary about how bringing in a new coach will not guarantee better results.
Can we agree that there is no question as to whom puts the Lakers in a better spot to reach there goal this season between Phil and MB, Larry Brown and MB or between Sloan and MB?
For all we know, Phil, LB and Sloan do not want to coach this team… but if the option is there… 🙂
The Dude Abides says
We’re talking about defense a lot, but IMO, the players have to buy into the defensive scheme for it to work. Good communication, hustle, and awareness are all by-products of the players respecting the coaching staff enough to buy into the defensive scheme. From what I saw last season and in the early going of this season (including the preseason), the players simply are not buying into whatever Mike Brown is preaching. IMO, they don’t respect him. At all.
And now we have Steve Nash trying to play the good soldier and help Brown implement an offense that is a clear non-match to the Laker starters, and Brown repays him by disrespecting his Phoenix years in a public statement. As I commented a couple posts ago, the only shot the team has of winning a championship this season is if they lose the first several games out of the gate (0-5 looking like a possibility), and the front office makes a coaching change early enough for the team to recover and get used to the new coach’s system.
Scorchee says
About the lack of Athleticism:
The Lakers beat Denver last season in the playoffs and Denver is very athletic, we lost to OKC which likes to slow down the pace. I can’t see how this is a fatal problem come playoff time.
This Lakers team have soooooooooooo much talent with our big four and we have enough spacers and defenders to make a very deep push. (and if you get to Miami in the finals with a healthy Howard, it’s a matchup nightmare for The Heat.)
david h says
darius: sadly another set back for steve nash but appreciate your update all things lakers.
we see that you are slowly but surely moving toward the dark side when it comes to the merits of coach brown.
let’s switch gears here a little and focus the spot light on kobe’s commitment to coach brown’s acceptance of trying to implement the princeton offense, an offensive scheme contrary to individualism which is contrary to all things kobe, ever has been, ever will be until the day he retires. kobe is being ironic when agreeing to stay the course…if ever there were a subliminal message being sent, message received.
this sunday sermon is brought to you by all laker fans who love this organization further than any dodger, any ram, any raider team has ever produced in this city, los angeles. to say we’ve seen it all through the decades of professional sports here in los angeles is to say the least.
clearly this has to be eating at the door steps of the buss ownership/regime. to see a laker nation in such an uproar after putting their money definitely where their mouth is and to see the current product crumble before their and our eyes are sadden further by the thought of going forward in this same diminished capacity.
praise the lord.
Go Lakers
Joe Atlanta says
david h, I have to assume that u haven’t watched a Laker game this season. Kobe isn’t being ironic, he is getting great shots from this offense and he is really a proponent of this offense. The reason why we are losing is partly because of the TOs and poor defense but chiefly due to MB’s poor game management skills. Once we we work out the kinks in the offense TO’s will go down and as the defense gets better MB’s inadequate game management skills will go unnoticed again.
Robert says
Dude: If I am not mistaken your posts clearly indicate that you are part of the illogical, panicking, impatient, and entitled fan base that wants MB out. I feel you have made a very rational decision to be part of this group : )
Now that said, in spite of the fact that your logic is sound, I will be rooting very hard for the Lakers tonight, even though, as you point out, that might not be in their best interests : )
Chearn says
@Edwin,
I’ve had the same problem with the site freezing.
Regarding our athleticism the Lakers have lacked that for years I was so excited when the
Lakers got Ariza as he is long, young and athletic. Then we got Shannon Brown and i thought
that the Lakers could see where the league was headed, but then they went backwards acquiring Kapono, Murphy and now Jamison.
On another note: Why can’t the Lakers get Farmar? I’m watching him play right now and he looks good and confident leading the team back from 18 down. Sasha’s on this team too but I haven’t seen him on the floor much.
Kenny T says
Is there any word as to whether DJO may be activated in light of Nash’s absence? The kid comes with a defensive reputation and could possibly be of help by cooling off a hot point guard.
Robert says
Darius:
Screen freezing does occur, also the spell check does not always find the errors – very odd (I usually just put mine into word to spell check – so this is how I know), the edit feature does not always come up, we still need the comment #’s, and it is still extremely random why posts are flagged for mod (way more random than most sites of a similar nature).
These are just suggestions for improvement of course. Nobody here is calling for you to be replaced as the main site mod by Mike D’Antoni : )
aka says
I don’t usually make snap decisions about how a team is going to do over the course of a season based on a small sample size of games….however I have to agree with the dude abides on this issue.
Last year we heard a multitude of excuses for why the team seemingly underperformed…short season, new coach, new system, no training camp as though those factors did not apply to any other teams.
Mike Brown got a pass last year even though his reputation for not being able to make in game adjustments or reasonable rotations was well earned. This year there is again a stream of excuses from people preaching to give him a chance. The problem is that he has shown ZERO evidence of utilizing his team to it’s greatest capabilities and developing a bench, or a sane rotation. Bench players need to have defined roles, and MB is back to playing people seemingly at random, eg Meeks and Ebanks in and out of line up…forcing players into roles they’re almost certainly going to fail at…eg jamison as a three, which compounds the problem as that squeezes ebanks’ minutes. The teams that have been beating us have all had player turnover as well…see dallas and their entirely new roster minus their superstar and starting center beating us like we stole something. at some point, no more excuses, simply produce.
right now the princeton offense looks terrible, and is directly leading to turnovers. I understand learning the system, but honestly, there is no reason why this team shouldn’t be running pick and roll a majority of the time. the players are thinking way too much out there and simply throwing the ball robotically around the perimeter most of the time, accomplishing nothing, and at worst telegraphing the passes so comically that it’s inevitable a steal for a dunk is the outcome. practice that in practice, but simplifiy the game when it’s for real by playing a majority of pick and roll out of those sets. Play to our strengths..hello nash and howard? should be the most devastating PnR EVER…or pick and pop with gasol . or any combination of PnR with kobe/ howard/ pau/nash there are enough complexities to pick and roll action that pull a defense out of whack, and can open up other actions as well.
to pull a quote from a semi bad/good movie ..the replacements with keanu..sometimes losing is like quicksand…. “You’re playing and you think everything is going fine. Then one thing goes wrong. And then another. And another. You try to fight back, but the harder you fight, the deeper you sink. Until you can’t move… you can’t breathe… because you’re in over your head. Like quicksand.” I’m afraid that if we don’t make a move to get rid of brown SOON the lakers will be in quicksand. I’m basing this on watching the team and body language every home game at Staples center since last year until now. The team stinks of desperation, and lack of joy in playing, and shows no sign of improving.
And as a final question… do you think the princeton offense would have worked for the showtime lakers? Don’t shackle players to a system they’re ill suited for, work a system that maximizes the team’s strengths. Let them play a simpler brand of basketball, let them have fun scoring, and that’ll help keep the stupid turnovers down, and allow us to set up defense better.. (although i am at a loss as to what our scheme is.. pau is too slow to hedge hard at the three point line and recover, yet we do this over and over again, causing players to scramble..that’s a whole other issue that this “defensive guru” of a coach refuses to correct.)
sorry so long, /rant off.
arliepro says
Kenny T,
DJO’s still on the roster. The FO and coaching staff would like him to get D-League experience this year, but I haven’t heard anything official on that yet.
Kevin_ says
I honestly don’t think DJO was kept to compete for playing time odds were too stacked against him. Maybe in case of injury or other reasons. But I doubt he plays at any point this season for Lakers.
I’ve seen the Knicks play twice. Totally different team from last year Lakers not so much.
Mike Brown wasn’t hired to install the twin towers offense or the Princeton offense. He was hired because he had a notebook dictionary thick on how he was going to turn the Lakers into a “rugged eastern conference defense”. We’ve yet to see it.
batman says
glad its not too serious…i think pau will be traded soon i would like to see a coaching change 1st however and put pau in the post….where he belongs…its going to take time no doubt theres only one ball…. but doing EVERYTHING the hard way and with the offense we run making zero sense with the personnel we have it will be an uphill battle…what about using pau as a “back up center”? starting jamison at PF then have pau/hill/banks/meeks/a steve (hopefully nash)? with browns perpetual revolving door substitutions he may as well try it
Darius Soriano says
The game preview is up:
http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2012/11/04/preview-chat-the-detroit-pistons-8/