After taking shots to the chin on back to back nights, the Lakers are 0-2 to start the season. While the games against the Rockets and the Suns both offered some glimpses of solid play, both games eventually turned into routs by the time the final buzzer sounded. This shouldn’t surprise, really. For all the talk about this team competing hard and what they can achieve if they play to their potential, the simple facts are that the Lakers aren’t a very talented team and aren’t running sophisticated schemes that hide that lack of talent very well. Combine these things and there will be problems. Big problems.
The numbers through two games bear this out:
Through 2 games, the Lakers have an OEff of 95.4 & a DEff of 119.5. I think that's bad.
— Darius Soriano (@forumbluegold) October 30, 2014
If you’re scoring at home ,that’s a minus-25.1 efficiency differential. There is no hiding from that on the floor. Over the course of the game the Lakers will find themselves in a spiral of not scoring enough while the other team does so too easily.
There are many reasons for this and the team will surely look to rectify some of them. But if zeroing in on one specific area, it might be what’s going on from behind the arc:
Kobe on what team needs to improve: "guarding the 3-pt shot or shooting more or making more ourselves. That's tough math to overcome" (TWC)
— Serena Winters (@SerenaWinters) October 30, 2014
In a game that the team lost by 20 but were outscored from behind the arc by 36(!) points, that would be a good place to start. And not only was the differential bad, but, as Kobe noted, the way the Lakers defended the three ball was particularly poor. The Suns run a lot of action to free up their guards to attack the paint, drawing help defenders in the process. And when the defense helps, they kick the ball out to outside shooters who bomb away. The result on Wednesday was a blistering 16 for 32 night for the Suns from behind the arc. The Lakers couldn’t contain the dribble but also couldn’t recover to the arc to run shooters off the line. In other words, “welp”.
It wasn’t just the 16 makes that should concern, however. As Kobe noted, maybe it’s time for them to take more threes themselves. After all, when the other team makes more three pointers when you even take, it might be time to reevaluate strategy. Byron Scott seems to disagree, however:
Byron and especially Kobe cited 3-pt differential as major issue Lakers need to address. But Byron said Lakers don't have 3-pt shooters.
— KEVIN DING (@KevinDing) October 30, 2014
Scott is partially right, here. With Nick Young and Ryan Kelly out, the Lakers are down two players who can stretch the defense. However, if going back to last year, Wes Johnson (36.9%) and Xavier Henry (34.6%) were not bad three point shooters. Jeremy Lin and Kobe can also hit the three ball at a league average rate (with both being above the league average when discussing their catch and shoot attempts). Add in Wayne Ellington and that’s nearly the entire wing rotation (sorry Ronnie Price and Jordan Clarkson) who can hit the long ball. So, it’s not so much about guys being able to make the shot as much as it is his coach believing they can make it. Or at least believing they can make it at a rate high enough to support it becoming a bigger part of the offense.
But here’s the thing: As I have noted before, three point field goal attempts are important to even generate the type of spacing that drives the types of shots the team does want to get. Scott himself has said he wants his players attacking the basket, but does not acknowledge how driving lanes open up. Teams are going to cut down driving lanes until the Lakers start showing they will force them to rotate to shooters. And that’s really the point. If the Lakers don’t shoot the three, defenses don’t have to defend it. And if they don’t have to defend it, they can start to take away the paint. For the Lakers, that means an over-reliance on alternative types of shots they will take — the long two pointer.
Which brings me back to my point at the top. The Lakers are currently boasting an offensive efficiency of 95.4. This is an awful number. To put it in context, last season’s worst offensive team (the 76ers) posted an offensive efficiency of 96.8. Last year’s Lakers were at 101.9 for the season. And while I do not expect the Lakers to be this poor all season (please, don’t let them be!) they must not just take that as a given. They must start to incorporate actions into their offense that help generate the looks that will boost that efficiency. In other words, they need to scheme up good shots. Because if they don’t, we’re going to be hearing a lot more quotes after games like Kobe’s above.
nimble says
Wayne has a very pure shot,must be playing more.
Calvin Chang says
Very good analysis. I really hope Byron Scott is not too proud to change his offense. My fear is that Byron Scott is stuck on the success of the 80’s Lakers that he’ll be too stubborn to acknowledge that the game has totally evolved. If that’s the case, he is much worse than D’Antoni.
There is a possibility that Byron Scott’s orders are to actually tank, but make it appear that they’re really putting up a fight. If that’s the case, he’s really got a good poker face.
How can you attack the defense and penetrate when you have Boozer on the right elbow and Jordan Hill on the left elbow (with their defenders clogging the paint)? Even Kobe can’t get close enough to shoot 15-footers. He has to create his own space and shoot a contested 20ft fadeaway. That’s a very difficult shot, but more importantly, it uses a lot of your energy to create a shot like that.
Imagine if you have a stretch big, a 3pt shooting wing, Jeremy, Kobe, and a big like Ed Davis. In a half-court set, put Kobe in mid-post. Defense is spread, so Kobe has more room to attack and pull up for a closer shot. Kobe’s 15fter is a lot more accurate than his 20fter.
If the big helps, drop pass or lob to Ed Davis for dunk. If other defenders help, kick out to 3pt shooter or Jeremy to penetrate when defense is scrambling.
Agree says
Good article, definitely the three pointers have been something I’ve been irritated with since preseason started. We have only attempted 23 threes the first two games combined! Sure we are a bit light on 3pt shooters, but should still be setting people up to take them. We have guys that hit for 35% or better, you only need to hit for 30% to equal a team shooting 50% from 2ptland. It’s clear it has to be a weapon at some level as your article notes, just to even focus more on attacking the basket without it being clogged with 8 guys all the time.
I continue to be very suspect about Byron as a coach. Nothing I have seen thus far year from him has given me any hope. If he doesn’t adapt and seek to change the offense, even with greater talent they will never win much of anything. He won 19, 21, 24 his previous three seasons at Cleveland–so at least his coaching career suggests he is quite used to really bad losing records.
The 30% three pointers = 50% two pointer, just makes it a must go to weapon. All their wings shoot over 30% for their career beside Price. Set a few picks, run guys off some screens, and please oh please can we shoot more than 1 corner 3 a game–one of the statistically best shots in the game?!
Also, please send Jeremy Lin and Wes Johnson to a sports psychologist. Lin is physically/skill wise capable of averaging 16/7 for this team–but mentally IMO he seems to just struggle with confidence and deferring vs. attacking etc. Same with Wes who is athletically talented but his mind holds him back. Both those guys should be better than they are–they need mental work at this point, not more repetitions with shooting etc.
Man we need Young back, with Lin playing blah thus far, Young would bring the confidence and attacking and likely jack up tons of 3’s until Scott benched him for it. Does anyone think that Popovich wouldn’t find a way to at least get this team’s offense decent. Sure, they aren’t winning anything, but big name free agents aren’t going to rush to go to the laker’s if they become perennial 20 win season team with the most pathetic offense in the league. They will get their money elsewhere.
Calvin Chang says
Agree = I don’t know how Jeremy Lin can attack and penetrate if the lane is clogged. Lin can see a sports psychologist and be as confident as Kobe, but that doesn’t change the physics of the court space. 2 objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
If Boozer is on the right elbow, and Jordan Hill is on the left elbow, that means their defenders are right by the paint. How can Jeremy get into the lane for an open layup?
Even Kobe can’t get into the lane because the defenders are all there. Kobe has to pull up for 20fters because there’s no space.
Wes Johnson = I don’t think a sports psychologist will help. He seems to just be a younger, softer version of Bruce Bowen.
Spitfire says
@Calvin..in what way D’Antoni became stubborn in this league where he was the man behind the NBA offense that the NBA using right now? Really?! Lol,Again, recently Pop himself acknowledge that MdA and Nash has changed the NBA’s offense right now. Again, it is Popovich himself! So it’s funny on some people who argued with me about this before. Anyway, back to Scott and his “hybrid Princeton” offense. There is no ball movement at all, the pick setters are mot doing their job. And why blame Lin? When it is obvious that they have no offensive sets? Free up Kobe or dump the ball to Kobe and that’s it. Dont know if you noticed at one play where Lin stomped his feet in disgust cos No one is setting picks for him. And really why Hill is the PnR guy not Boozer who can PnPop better than Hill? If Scott doesnt change this soon, it will be a long, tiring season and frustrating season for us Laker fans
Devon says
Hey Darius,
Excellent piece. I note in your article the Lakers aren’t running sophisticated schemes that hide their lack of talent. So far Coach Scott has been running the Princeton offense and a bit of triangle offense – what offense would best suit this Laker team?.
Aaron says
Hmmmm… I wonder why Scott is doing exactly the opposite of what wins in the NBA? Hmmmmmm…. Could he be the dumbest coach in league history? Yea that’s probbaly it. He probably just doesn’t know anything about basketball… Yea that’s it.
Calvin Chang says
If you look at successful teams like Blazers, Spurs, Lebron’s Heat = it is all about spacing.
For Blazers, you have Batum and Wes Matthews on opposite wings by 3pt area. Robin Lopez down deep. Dame Lillard and Aldridge can then run the high pick and roll, and teams are in trouble. Lillard uses the pick to shake his defender and penetrate. If the opposing big shows, he can throw it to Aldridge for an open shot. If the other defenders rotate, he can kick it out to Batum or Matthews for an open 3. It’s “pick your poison”.
Same with the Spurs. Danny Green on one corner, Kawhi on the other. Tiago deep down. Tony Parker and Tim Duncan high pick and roll. They have so many options because of the spacing.
Calvin Chang says
@Spitfire – I did not say D’Antoni is stubborn. I said I fear Byron Scott may be too stubborn.
If that’s the case, then Byron is worse than D’Antoni, and Lakers should have just stuck with D’Antoni and given him the extra year.
Agree says
Calvin, I never mentioned Lin getting into the lane more being related to his passivity/confidence up and downs. I agree that the lanes are clogged big time, that’s why I want him to shoot the ball. He can shoot step back mid-range, and a decent range of shots off the dribble. He has a lot of experience shooting last second contested three’s as Harden dumped him the ball before the clock was set to expire.
I think Lin in particular just continues to drive relentlessly even when it’s not really there b/c going to the hole is his bread and butter. He clearly has confidence in that, his jumper is the thing he really needs to find. I think Lin could be a key piece in making the Lakers at least decent in the future, but if he just doesn’t play up to his abilities he likely will just move onto another team.
Please just get Boozer off the floor, he’s a great back-up PF, give the guy 12mins a game. I would rather see Sacre out there more often with Davis at the 4. I just want to see a win and Lin/Kobe etc can all get hot from 3ptland and if they make 4-5 three’s that alone will open things up big time. Open up the game with some off ball picks to open up Lin or Kobe with the goal to shoot a three if its open. Clearly most everyone here realizes that spacing is a MUST, just b/c you don’t have top level spacers doesn’t mean give up on it. Defensively they just have too many slow guys on the floor at one time. Putting boozer on the bench helps with one of them, and Kobe looks pretty good on Offense but real slow on defense IMO at least thus far in his comeback.
BigCitySid says
In addition to the great points you make Darius, the Lakers best two offensive players, Kobe & Lin, have no chemistry, none, zip, nada, zelch. In order to improve that situation the more talented, more versatile player needs to modify in order for the lesser talented, less versatile player to be able to be more effective. Kobe is a much better player off the ball than Lin, and still be very effective. Lin is the better passer, let Lin control the ball.
They will be a better 1, 2 punch.
BigCitySid says
Conversations and things I find interesting taking place in the NBA from a Laker perspective:
1) “I told them we have to hang in there and stay together as a team,” Lakers coach Byron Scott said. “It is only two games.”
2) Bryant, 11 of 25 from the field, didn’t play in the fourth quarter. “I told you guys from the beginning I am back to myself,” said Bryant, who missed nearly all of last season with a knee injury. “I feel completely fine.”
3) “Kobe, he can score 30 points, but he took a lot of shots,” Dragic said. “I think the percentage was not so good. That’s what we wanted to do.”
4) Pau Gasol on his brother Marc’s possible free agent destination next season. Wil Pau recommend the Lakers to his little brother?
http://nypost.com/2014/10/30/pau-gasol-possible-brother-marc-could-land-with-knicks/
5) Harden & Ariza visited Randall in the hospital. Kudos to both.
http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/harden_ariza_visit_julius_randle_in_the_hospital/17596088?linksrc=story_sport_nba_module_head_17596088
rr says
did not say D’Antoni is stubborn
—
This has been covered here, multiple times. The 2013 Lakers were 5th in Pace Factor and 3rd in 3PA. They were 19th in 3P%. MDA did make some tactical adjustments here and there but the key elements of his style–shooting a ton of 3s and playing at a fast pace–were firmly in place the whole time he was in LA, even though that style did not, in many respects, fit the personnel of the 2013 team, which gave heavy minutes to Metta, Kobe, Pau, and had a revolving door at the 1.
The 2014 team was 2nd in Pace, again 3rd in 3PA, and 17th in 3P%. ORTGs:
2014 21st 104.2
2013 9th 107.8
rr says
A note on coaches: when Stan Van Gundy took over the Pistons, Zach Lowe wrote, of coaches, that in his opinion, only about a “half dozen guys really move the needle.” One may or may not agree, but it is worth remembering.
Robert says
I agree with the criticism of Byron’s 3 point philosophy, for a more rudimentary reason. When you have an smaller, physically weaker team, that is less talented, one obvious strategy is to heave threes and hope you get hot. It is one main reason why powerhouse teams can get upset on any given night. That said – it is hardly the difference between a lotto team and a contender.
As I said in the last thread. Let the Kobe, Byron bashing begin.
“If Kobe would just play team ball and if Byron would just read a basketball book then the Lakers would win 50 games.”
Phil Jackson could not do anything with this roster. Did I just say that? : )
Calvin Chang says
@Agree = I agree that Boozer should just come off the bench. He has lost most of his explosiveness and athleticism.
I disagree about Lin shooting more jumpers / step-back jumpers. That’s not his strength, and that is a low-percentage play. Lin’s strength is using his speed to get to the rim, then either finish, drop or lob pass to a big, or make a layup. He has good vision to create open looks for others. But that depends on getting good space.
If the lane is clogged by Booz and Hill, and Jeremy is just going to dribble and shoot a contested jumper, that is a low-percentage shot. Jeremy can hit open jumpers from good ball-movement. But if he’s got a defender, and he’s just going to dribble, shake free and get some space to shoot a jumper, that’s not really his strength. Better to let Kobe do that.
We see Lin running to the corner when Kobe gets the ball. Some may view it as shying away from the ball, being chicken. But what Lin is doing is drawing his defender away to give Kobe more space to operate. And that’s the right thing to do. If he goes close to Kobe when Kobe has the ball, then Lin’s defender can then help trap Kobe, giving Kobe a more difficult shot.
It all comes down to proper spacing.
If Boozer will remain in the starting lineup, he better make a better effort to set high-picks to get Lin or Kobe free. Dumping the ball to him in the post is a low-percentage play. He’ll just try to shoot a contested 17 ft jumper because he no longer has the speed or athleticism to back down his defender and get a finesse shot.
R says
Sooooo ….. The Lakers, in essence, can’t score or keep the other team from scoring. It’s good news, in a sense. Plenty of opportunities for improvement!
Teamn says
Seems as though the Lakers have struggled with defending the 3 for years, for various reasons to include age, lack of talent and/ or commitment, scheme, etc. Is any of that realistically fixable now with rotation changes? If not, better to shoot more 3s as well or keep trading two for three?
Of course, this is all part of the plan, so I guess it’s fine.
Aaron says
Maybe the rumors are right… LBJ got off HGH. He doesn’t look like the same athlete in the preseason and so far in game one.
Jork says
This team just needs a general overhaul. You can do all the wonky math you want when you plug back the reinjured guys into the equation (Young, Kelly), and it’s true both of those guys score in ways that will elevate our offensive efficiency. But Kelly is an absolute sieve on defense who doesn’t rebound, and Young did put in the effort last year but has somewhat of a aloof defensive rep in the past. The team can’t even account for the margin of error due to injuries, and worst case scenarios like these are induced when you don’t even have the proper conditioning people (i.e. Alex McKechnie) to assist, not to mention that you’re bumping into multiple bodies because defenders don’t guard the three. Everything adds up. This is a 18-25 win team at best. I think Mitch knows about the stealth tank, but it’s bad PR when you say out loud that we’re going to be competitive, but then you see blowout after constant blowout.
Kevin T says
HGH or no HGH, Lebron knows his window is tops 3 more years. The bigger they are the harder they fall. The drop off from age 30 to 33,34 for him is going to me huge. He will be effective at 34,35 as well because he is a great passer but I don’t think he would be able to drive in the lane as much which effectively kill his game.
Kevin T says
Lebron is in tank mode too I guess, he has to make Cleveland look beatable, so everyone is not turned off right of way, they need people to watch the games and it’s a long season. He is King of the NBA and he does what is “best for business”.(HHH,The Authority,WWE)
Aaron says
I don’t want to live in a world where LeBron James can’t drive by a slow white guy.
Jerke says
The issue for Lin is that he found his success in MDa’s system in new york – where he was allowed to do what he wanted on the flr and not be held back to a certain system/principles. In new york he was allowed to run/push the pace/create as he saw fit attack the defense. Similar to Nash he was given the freedom to probe the defense then drive himself or dish accordingly. He was never a great outside shooter – just got streaky and hot after hitting layups all game. He’s the same guy, just to be effective he needs some freedom so either that means playing second unit where scott doesn’t care as much – or being unshackled and allowed to get up and down as he want when he has the ball
TempleofJamesWorthy says
The Kamenetsky Bros. summarized the fundamental problem with the Lakers quite nicely:
Who is the second-best player on the Lakers? The leading candidates are Jeremy Lin and Jordan Hill.
Who is the second-best player on every other team in the Western Conference (e.g. Clippers: CP3 or Blake Griffin depending upon who you rank #1, OKC: Westbrook, Spurs: Tony Parker, Rockets: Dwight Howard, etc., etc. etc.) The Lakers have the WORST #2 player on their squad of every team in the Western Conference.
Now, let’s expand that analysis. Kobe is clearly the Lakers’ best player. What teams in the Western Conference have a BETTER best player right now than Kobe Bryant (only considering what the players will do this year, not career body of work). Again, Clippers: CP3 is probably better than KB24 RIGHT NOW. Portland: LaMarcus Aldridge can do more than KB24 right now. Phoenix: Eric Bledsoe can do more than Kobe Bryant right now. Etc., etc., etc. Kobe is clearly better than the best player on Minnesota, Utah, and Sacramento. That’s it.
The Lakers simply don’t have the horses to be competitive. It’s going to be an ugly year.
Oldtimer says
Spot on Darius, on the onset Lakers lacked talent after watching two games hopefully, it is not a given that we can already forecast the next 80 games. Scott can still do some miracles and stop the bleeding by learning from the mistakes, wait for Young and Kelly join the team.
It really takes time to build a high caliber team ready for Championship, I don’t know whether Lebron could do for the Cavaliers even if they assembled good players around him. They need fraternity, chemistry and camaraderie to get into another stage. There is only one Magic Johnson who could immediately put the Championship mode on its first year. Therefore. on Aaron theory of tanking as the way to go, you can assemble a Randle type, Wiggins type or Jabari Parker type, Lakers will still be groping for Championship. When Kobe and Shaq were acquired plus the veterans like Scott, Jones, Van Exel etc. they can’t do it. It took them 5 years to jell under PJ. When MJ started in the league, he was a star in NCAA but a nervous rookie in NBA, it took sometime to take off.
Analyze the Lakers, they have been changing players every year, buying Championship by going for the biggie like Dwight, old Nash, Melo or Lebron. They left the role players under the bus; dumb and dumber morphed from Brown system, then to Dantoni. Who did we lost from 2010 roster – a healthy/young Kobe, Pau, Fisher, Ariza or Metta, Bynum, Odom, Vujacic, Brown and Farmar plus Luke. Compare those talents to our players today. There has been a team over haul on Lakers since Jim Buss took over. How many players in 2011 are still in 2014? only the old and injured Kobe? Do you call this a rebuild? At the start of the season, who did we expect to perform? the young Kobe (?); Boozer, the Utah jazz stopper (?); Lin, the miracle player of Dantoni in the Knicks (?). Having said that, (forget the age disparity) can you compare the Lakers of today to 2010 or 2002 roster. Other teams have been improving while Lakers keep on imploding and waiting for Mega Lotto player. If Lin, Boozer and Wesley can’t handle the pressure of being the starter, who are the replacement? Is it Clarkson, the rookie or Price, the johnny come lately applicant? Davis can replace Boozer but it is no guarantees.
My request to Mitch, use the disability waiver to search for two players who could really help. PAY for talents, whoever and wherever you can find them. You can’t just say tank, tank, tank and this team becomes a contender in four years’ time. The future never takes care of itself. If you are not proactive in improving the stock, Lakers will be bought by other owners just like what happened to Sterling team. Magic and others just bought Chivas rights and will have another MLS team in LA. There are many California billionaires who could tender an offer that Buss Children cannot refuse if their stocks goes down to the drain.
5D2 says
Darius, All your analysis is right on the spot. The problem is we don’t have good 3-point shooters. The only really “good” spot-up 3-point shooter may be Ryan Kelly. Even Kobe is not a great 3-point shooter. Swaggy P is streaky at best. Also, I am very surprised that Lakers have not been able to get a steal from the development league. It’s much easier to find a diamond in the rough for perimeter players. I think the front office half-way approach to rebuilding is a total disaster. Signing Boozer to take away young players’ playing time to develop is a major mistake. How about just surround Kobe with a whole bunch of athletic players from development league and just try to pile up assets, then see if we can trade for some picks, late first round or second rounders. Let’s build from there. That way, at least it would be fun to see the young players develop. Right now, it does not matter what strategy or plays that coach Byron can implement. Lakers just don’t have the talent. Just cut loss, and at least put together a d-league team that is hungry to prove themselves for a good pay day. Guys like boozer are already well fed, he will show you couple of good nights, then wing it most of the time. Make Kobe a high-pay master yoda, and turn this thing into giant training squad. This is at least honest to the customers, your loyal fans.
KenOak says
This is such a dream year for Aaron and BigcitySid. If the Lakers are as bad as we think they will be, then Aaron will claim that he was right all along! And, why couldn’t anyone else see it!? And, of course, if the Lakers are terrible, but Kobe still scores at a decent rate, then BCS will rant and rave about how if only Kobe would play such and such a way the Lakers would be so much better and winning so many more games…. Weird that a dream year for some is such an awful year for the Lakers, eh?
Lebron looked absolutely terrible for the most part tonight. Love wasn’t bad even though he had an off night shooting.
Kevin T says
KenOak,
you are 100% right
Chearn says
I wonder what they’ll write-up about the King shooting 5-15 for 17 points with only 4 assists? Does this mean that Lebron’s a ballhog that doesn’t get his team involved?
Gasp!
Do you think even a talented team with a new coach and players need time to adjust to each other?
bryan S. says
Another great post, Darius.
Calvin Chang: Painfully obvious how bad the spacing is and what is even more painful is that it ruins any chance to have some semblance of offensive efficiency. Good posts.
rr: Last thread, your quote from some guy trolling me was too funny 🙂
Vasheed: Lakers did their due diligence and then some on Randall’s medical history. The broken leg had nothing to do with his foot. Stop already.
Ko says
Not only does Buss and Lakers look like fools after 2 blowouts but now the guys Jimmy tossed away, Phil and Fish look very smart as the beat Cavs at home.
Nice job there Jimmy. Spend that money on more hats. Dunce hats that is.
The Dane says
@Devon “…what offense would best suit this Laker team?.”
Well the only chance is to create shots for everyone but Young, Kobe and Lin out of the offense (who to some extend all can create on their own). If the team cannot/will not shoot from long range, then maybe they should look at the old Jazz sets from the Jerry Sloan era. Flex offense with lots of screen, re-screen and screen the screener action… and of course pick and roll.
We could be jumping the gun though, since the offense might be in early stages and more actions/layers could be added later. It looks to me like things stagnate after the first action (which also often is initiated very late). When the Spurs just keep flowing for 24 seconds or more, it is also a result of the core of the team and the coach being in place for years and years.
J C says
Lin: Thanks, Kobe, for taking me under your wing.
And smothering me.
Agree says
So the injury issue is smacking OK City big time. With Westbrook now potentially being out the whole season or close to it, that’s going to change the West. I thought they were going to struggle big time without KD, but they are going to lose a ton of games now.
Calvin, I’ll continue to disagree with you on the point with Lin shooting jumpers. As I stated, sure his strength is going to the rim, but as you stated and all of us have seen UNTIL they spread the floor somehow the lanes are clogged. Lin statistically is one of their best shooters currently from 3pt range, he just doesn’t have many options that are better than him shooting more from outside.
The laker’s have Ellington who is a 38.5% career 3pt shooter which is real good, so although he hasn’t shot too well as of yet, math suggests give him some clean looks and he will start draining them. The laker’s have a bunch of pretty average 3pt shooters, but 33/34% 3pt shooting is still better than shooting 40% from 2pt range. You can run screens and “plays” like the warriors do to open up shooters for 3’s, not every 3pt attempt has to be opened up by a drive and kick.
I don’t see many people arguing that the lakers are going to be good if coached differently, its about how BAD they might be. If healthy with a decent offense they will have some nights where a few guys get hot and can win a game. But if they use the worst shots in basketball and call it the “princeton” or havings Kobe shoot 15-18 footers from a high post and just call that the “triangle” they will utterly be horrible. Talent matters, but the Spurs if they played offense like this team has thus far would have got bounced in the first round last year. You can’t take 13 three pointers and get almost no fast break points and set almost no screens on offense and plan to do anything. Byron needs to get these guys to set off ball picks. Set up a play for Lin to shoot a 3 from the corner in a catch and shoot, he shot around 45% from the Left side corner at Houston.
Do people honestly believe that what we have seen thus far is truly how good the team is? That they will get blown out every single game and break NBA records for Fewest points per game and most PPG allowed? Good luck regaining glory through the lottery, I for one don’t want to wait 8 years or more for them to become contenders. With the luck the Lakers have had the past few years–I don’t think they will be getting the #1 pick anytime soon. And a fair number of top 3 picks end up just being average players.
The Dane says
I will link to the extended GD highlight.
I am not sure if this is by design, or because the offense is either not running on all cylinders yet, or Scott has not taught all the layers yet, while planning to add them later!?
No movement away from the ball:
Pin down: Here Kobe comes of a down screen, but ballhandler and the two weakside players are all frozen while watching Kobe catch and shoot: http://youtu.be/HsvQ3M2TsRI?t=50s
High P&R: While Hill screens high for Kobe Price jogs along the baseline with no purpose. Ed Davis is also just standing there waiting for a dump off or a rebound. Davis could have either tried screennings Price´s man, or/and rescreening for some hammer action with Price first cutting high, and then returning to the corner. As it is the defense only has to counter one action – good NBA defenses can handle this: http://youtu.be/HsvQ3M2TsRI?t=1m21s
Give and go? http://youtu.be/HsvQ3M2TsRI?t=1m35s
After handing over the ball to Kobe on the right wing, Ed Davis cuts down low. Hill is spacing the offense??? on the threepoint line, but later decides to go and stand next to Davis and wait for the rebound. At some point Price decides to leave the weakside corner and jog back to play defense.
When Kobe receives the ball there was still 12 secs on the clock. Plenty of time to run some offense, but there seems to be no general principles or flow options, only the initial sets that seem to contain one or two options.
I am not impressed.
Tra says
The Lakers simply don’t have the horses to be competitive.
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It’s as simple as that.
The points that are being made about floor spacing, 3 pt fg attempts and different lineups are all valid, but at the end of the day, as its been often said, talent wins in this league. Talent that this current roster doesn’t have.
When your best player is a 36 year old SG, in his 19th season and coming off of 2 major leg injuries AND – with all due respect to the both of them – when your best big men are Hill & Davis, how much can one expect from the team?
Simple answer: Lottery [and a whole lot of luck within it].
BigCitySid says
KenOak, some of us have the ability to see clearly, and not let emotional attachments blind us. I’m a Laker fan who believes team over individual. It’s very obvious why the Lakers made the decisions they did pertaining to Kobe. And I understand it. However the viability & reliability of the product on the court was not a top factor in the decision. $$$’s and P.R. pertaining to Kobe passing MJ and his continuing climb up the all time scoring list were/are considered more important.
If you are aware of that and ok with that, than no problem. You cheer for Kobe knowing your team will not become relevant, contending wise, with Kobe as #1 (both as best player & salary).
I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to realize both the Lakers and Kobe could be enjoying much better seasons on the court if they didn’t agree to “the re-signing” & parted ways mutually. Mutually being the key word, because he would be instrumental in helping the Lakers getting back value while still going to a contender.
That’s the way I saw it then, that’s the way I see it now, that’s the way I’ll continue to see it. Not bitter, just clear.
Renato Afonso says
Ko,
I can’t agree with you on Phil and Fisher. I actually saw the Cavs-Knicks game and the Knicks are probably running the worst version of the triangle offense that I have ever seen. I would say that more than half of the players simply don’t know what they’re supposed to do. It was more of a Cavs defeat (by shooting their own foot) than the Knicks showing contender quality. After the Cavs opened that 10 point lead early in the second period, they actually relaxed their defense and allowed plenty of open mid range jumpshots that went in (with the occasional three ball). I also saw a lot of iso ball from JR Smith and Melo, so I don’t think we can extrapolate anything yet. Yes, the offense is supposed to give you open jump shots from midrange, but the lack of interest the Cavs had on playing defense on off the ball screens was atrocious. And if you don’t play good defense, you don’t get fast breaks nor a good transition offense, therefore you don’t score easy points. I would’ve done some full court press on the Knicks guards if I was Blatt…
One note about our offense: if we don’t have neither great three point shooters nor a big that can score 50% on iso post play, how about some off the ball screens to open either the midrange jumper (and I mean, open, which is almost the same as a layup for NBA players) or a cut to the basket… or maybe we could even use some backdoor cuts with or without off ball screens to force a defensive switch or even a layup…
Renato Afonso says
Spitfire,
MDA is not an offensive guru. He’s the guy who brought that type of offense to the NBA, nothing else. That PnR action with the floor spaced and backdoor cuts has been around for a long time and I think it’s disrespectful to the guys who actually thought of it. I do give him credit for being the first one to so bluntly use it in the NBA. And his stubbornness had nothing to do with the offensive style but rather player usage (namely the bigs) and (lack of) defensive philosophy.
Robert says
There is absolutely no truth to the rumor that I wrote this article. It is a must read as it centers on all we discuss and rather than debating specifics – it just goes to the heart of the issue.
http://www.newsweek.com/two-words-advice-lakers-kobe-bryant-just-shoot-281169
Stuart says
Is trading Kobe the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about? The way I see it their goals are not the same at this point.
Kobe is at the end of his career and wants to make the playoffs and be successful. However, what’s best for Kobe is not what is best for the franchise. The Lakers have virtually no assets (young talent, draft picks and cap flexibility). There is no way to improve the team, in the near term, other than losing (to ensure a top 5 pick) and creating more cap room (to sign young elite talent).
I was always firmly in the ‘never trade Kobe camp’. But I have come to the realization that if we are to turn this thing around sooner than later then the FO has to have the courage to pull the trigger.
One area of push back will be that what will TWC do? Well, you tell them that they can have poor ratings for the next 4 years while we ride the Kobe contract out and rebuild or trade Kobe (to the NYK) and shave the rebuild and poor ratings down to two years.
The other point of push back will be what Jeannie and Jim hide behind, “If not Kobe, who will we spend the money on?” Well. next summer (2015) we can have a nucleus of: Ed Davis, Randle, our top five pick, Greg Monroe (FA) and Reggie Jackson (RFA). That’s five studs 24 or younger. Then in the summer of 2016 that core may be good enough to attract an elite FA (KD) to push us over the top.
The Laker FO will tell you that they will wait for Kobe’s contract to roll of and then in the summer of 2016 they will pursue KD, AD or KL and they’ll want to come because, well we are the Lakers. The new reality is that elite players who have reached FA are 28 or older and at this point in their careers they want to win – now. They want to join a club that has established talent and is either championship level or very near there.
I love Kobe but I love the Lakers more. I think such a move is good for Kobe and is certainly good for the Lakers.
BigCitySid says
@ Robert, read the article. More and more humans are coming to terms with our team this season. Lakers, part of so many positive records in NBA history, will this season contribute to negative ones.
By the way, what is the Laker record for consecutive losses to begin a season?
R says
The Lakers will be exploring new territory this year. Not in a good way.
As far as the question Are the lakers tanking or not? I’m reminded of the story of the leper who’s told a treasured body part needs to be amputated (you can probably guess the part in question). Well naturally he is horrified and seeks another opinion. The second doctor tells him, oh no, no need to amputate. The leper is over joyed. The doctor says, yeah don’t worry, it’ll fall off in a week or so all by itself.
Agree says
Alec Burke for UT is getting over 10mill a year plus incentives. Honestly with how pricey a lot of decent players are turning out to be, 9 Mill for J. Hill doesn’t look bad at all. Seems like anybody who can get a double double each night and is over 6’9″ is getting 10mill contracts. Guards are getting crazy contracts even with a glut of really good guards all over this league.
I assume we are going to have to pay Ed Davis around 9 million or someone else will take him off our hands next year. I threw a penny in a wishing well this morning, wishing that the clippers are just in crappy shape and too tired to do anything tonight and we get a miracle win. Kobe for 30 again and Lin for 28p and Davis for 16pts I’m calling it 🙂
BigCitySid says
Today’s history lesson:
Laker record for consecutive losses to begin a season: 7, by the ’57-’58 team. Which went on to 2-14, 3-17 before finishing at 19-53, for a .264 season.
3 teams tied for 2nd place @ 0-3. (’60-’61, ’78-’79, & ’12-’13).
This year’s team already qualifies as a tie for the 5th worst start in Laker history @ 0-2 joining the following seven teams:
’53-’54, ’56-57, ’69-’70, ’81-’82, ’90-’91, ’02-’03,’11-’12, and now ’14-’15.
Obviously an incredible testament to just how great this franchise has been thru out their history. However tonight they are in serious danger of tying the record for 2nd place for worst consecutive starts in Laker history. 🙁
Robert says
BigCity: The records are amazingly low (maybe not considering our historic success). The all time record for consecutive regular season defeats is 10 (1994). For defeats to start a season, it is 7 (1957). Since moving to LA, the worst start ever is 0-3 which has been done twice (most recently in the Mike Brown, Phil Jackson head fake, Mike D’Antoni debacle year).
I am not saying we are going to break these records, but wow – these are low. The last of which we could tie tonight.
Robert says
see you beat me to it. However take a look at the all time record of only 10. We did 7 twice last Spring,
Calvin Chang says
Lakers should take a chance on Hasheem Thabeet for minimum. Sure, he has low bball IQ. But you cannot teach 7 ft 3. Just train him to play like Roy Hibbert on defense. If he can be like a poor-man’s Mutombo, he can help this team.
George says
Stuart: I really can’t see the Lakers moving Kobe absent his demanding to be traded. However, if Kobe did request one and making such a move did indeed help the Lakers this off season (picks or cap relief) then I could support it. I don’t see Kobe requesting a trade unless we go 3 -17 or something like that with a lot of really ugly losses. If that happens then I could see Kobe getting pretty tired of the Laker situation and looking for an out.
While I want Kobe to finish up as a career Laker I can see, after two games, that he still has a lot left in the tank. Certainly enough to push a contender forward. Unfortunately, we are not contenders. Additionally, we have nothing more left to ransom from the future to win now. So the Lakers are what they are: a 25 win team.
T. Rogers says
“I am not saying we are going to break these records, but wow – these are low. The last of which we could tie tonight.”
The 0-3 to start the season record is going down. The Clips want to make a statement and will come out with fire tonight. The Warriors always get up for the Lakers. The thing with GS is I can see another double digit rout coming. The Lakers can’t (won’t) shoot threes. By contrast, Curry and Thompson will be bombing from long distance all night. We can only hope that one of them is off.
I have to keep telling myself that this is how a rebuild goes. Because these next two games could be ugly.
Chearn says
There is nothing that warrants a reversal of the outcomes of the previous two games. In addition, in tonight’s game the Clippers want to continue on their journey of wiping the Lakers off the map as Los Angeles’ team.
At this point, Byron should shake up the lineup to see if he can find a combination with chemistry and chutzpah.
If you ever played sports at a high level, you know that playing on a team that is not even competitive in the sport you love is degrading.
The season is long, and anything can happen. Here’s to hoping the Lakers continue to improve. By December, numbers wise, they may be out of a playoff spot but I expect to see improvement in the areas of offense, defense, chemistry and passion.
KenOak says
BigCity:
The problem is that you’re projecting. You claim to be thinking clearly, but that’s absolutely not true. Your feelings and opinions about Kobe are well known, and it is also well known that they color your judgment. Thinking clearly? You have never thought clearly when it comes to Kobe. You would have kept Shaq and let Kobe walk back in 2004 which was absolutely the wrong move. Shaq *may have won one more ring in L.A. *maybe, but we know Kobe led the Lakers to 2 more rings and 3 Finals. I know, I know, you will say that Kobe wasn’t the best player on those teams and that Gasol was the true catalyst, right?
I cheer for the Lakers first and foremost just like every other fan that visits this site. (even Robert) However, we’re not going to be contenders this year, or next year -> with or without Kobe. So, yes, I will cheer for Kobe chasing history as one of the greatest players in Laker’s history. Just like I cheered for Magic and just like I cheered for Kareem. The Lakers have never been that franchise that treats their lifers the way you seem to want to. They didn’t do it in the 80’s and they’re not doing it now.
But seriously, good for you man. You get exactly what you want out of Kobe playing out his last two years here as much as I, or Robert do! You get to couch your arguments over and over again ad nauseum. Like I said before. It’s funny that this may be a historically bad year for the Lakers, but seems to be a dream year for you. 😉
gene says
CBS Los Angeles reports that Kobe allegedly used the “N” word against Howard….No one else wants to touch this story?
Anonymous says
It all comes down to proper spacing.
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It mostly comes down to talent. Then comes fit–having a balance of skills on the roster. Then you get to schemes and Xs and Os.
That said, I expect that later in the season we will see:
1-Lin
2-Young
3-Kobe
4-Kelly
5-Davis
That group could create more spacing than this one does and while it would be awful on D, I doubt it would be much worse than the group starting now.
One of the many reasons that I was opposed to the Boozer deal was that even if you buy into his skillset and the retention thereof, he duplicated a lot of strengths and weaknesses of Hill and to some extent Randle.
I am not a big Ryan Kelly fan, but if he ever comes back, I would give the front court minutes to Davis, Hill, and Kelly, with a little time for Sacre mixed in and spot Wesley Johnson at the 4 occasionally as well.
rr says
You claim to be thinking clearly, but that’s absolutely not true. Your feelings and opinions about Kobe are well known, and it is also well known that they color your judgment.
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Yeah. Sid and gene are both examples of that problem. So are some of the guys who work for ESPN. It’s cool that some people love KB, some hate him, and many more are somewhere in between. But emotion and analysis are not the same thing.
Anyone who is upset about the state of the Lakers should IMO focus most of his/her ire on three people: David Stern, Jim Buss, and Mitch Kupchak.
BigCitySid says
KenOak, wish it was different, truly do…but I call it the way I see it.And I must take a minute here to thank Darius for allowing different view points. How dull and boring it would be if everyone had the same point of view.
Pertaining to previous Laker greats, it did bother me that Kobe & Shaq couldn’t work out their differences. And I don’t recall any of the past Laker greats insisting on being the highest paid player in the league and stating “I eat first”, lol (and I’ve been a fan since ’65).
Now don’t get it twisted, I do appreciate Kobe. He ranks in my personal top 10 favorite all-time Lakers. 4th best guard all-time (behind MJ, Magic, & The Big O) and he’s the 2nd best 2 guard in history. And he’ll be the 1st player ever to have Two numbers retired by the same team. Now that’s special.
Here’s hoping our Lakers win at least one game in the first eight so they won’t be labeled with the worst start in Laker history.
Darius Soriano says
Fyi, guys, the game preview will be up right before tip tonight. Sorry for the delay. Been swamped with other responsibilities.
Chearn says
Let’s go Lakers! Any sign of improvement will be welcomed.
KenOak says
Watching Cavs/Bulls and I can’t ever recall Pau being this focused on defense! Thibs? He’s still looking like last year’s Gasol on offense though… If the Bulls stay healthy, I see them contending.
Fern says
The Bulls look better than the Cavs, if the Cavs were in the West they would be a middle tier playoff team. Pau is motivated on D, can he sustain it? I dont know, tonight it will be the 1st Laker game i see since last season, too busy doing this Army thing, have to say that i haven’t been this disheartened(sic) in a loong time. Young going down? It happens, Nash? Not surprising, just sad, but Randle? Thats just beyond messed up, on his first pro game? Seriously????, i hate the cliche but the basketball gods are not just frowning on the Lakers, they are taking a massive giant dump on them and us. That being said we need to soldier on. and LA being a Clipper town? Never going to happen, the Clippers can win the next 3 chips and this is still a Lakers town, same as Chicago is a Cubs town even with them sucking for more than a freaking century, same with NY and the Yankees, even in the instances the Mets have been good NY is a Yankee town and that will never change. Same with LA and the Lakers. Talk about this being a Clipper town when they win at least 10 championships and mayb just maybee there can be an argument. This unholy nightmare cant last forever, i was convinced last season injury malaise could not be duplicated, boy was i wrong.
Fern says
Just when i said that the Bulls looked better the Cavs took it in OT, Rose wasn’t there though. I still think they are the best east team. Thoughts on what i seen on the Lakers this being my 1st look at them, whatever problems they had guarding the 3 point line they are doing a better job than they did the first 2 games not freat but just good enough. And i believe Coach is correct when he says that we dont shoot that many 3s bc we dont have 3 point shooters. I expect a lot more downtown shooting once we get Kelly and Swaggy back.Kobe… What can be said? Still killing it, he is going to score at least 25ppg this season. That dunk on Barnes was sweeeet. The man still have it. So to all those doubters there is a big glass of shut the hell up waiting for you at the bar, small sample but he looks fine and effective. Surprised to see Henry there, i thought he was out. This team is not good at D but they are hustling and are making the Clips work for everything. Looks like they made some adjustments and look better as a result. We dont have the talent. But im ok with what i seen. Lin needs to get it going. He is being hugely underwhelming.
Fern says
Kobe %*#€@$@ Bryant.