I don’t think Steve Nash owes anyone any explanations about how hurt he is or what he’s going through physically. While an instagram video of him hitting balls at the driving range caused a stir, it’s only a certain type of irrationality that would equate hitting a golf ball to being able to play basketball in the NBA. Yet, after some loud criticism and questions about how healthy Nash really is have persisted, Nash took to his facebook page to explain what he is going through physically. Below is his full statement — one he called an “Open Letter to Lakers Fans” on twitter — from his page:
I definitely don’t want to be a distraction, but I felt it best everyone heard from me in my own words.
I have a ton of miles on my back. Three buldging disks (a tear in one), stenosis of the nerve route and spondylolisthesis. I suffer from sciatica and after games I often can’t sit in the car on the drive home, which has made for some interesting rides. Most nights I’m bothered by severe cramping in both calves while I sleep, a result of the same damn nerve routes, and the list goes on somewhat comically. That’s what you deserve for playing over 1,300 NBA games. By no means do I tell you this for sympathy – especially since I see these ailments as badges of honor – but maybe I can bring some clarity.
I’ve always been one of the hardest workers in the game and I say that at the risk of what it assumes. The past 2 years I’ve worked like a dog to not only overcome these setbacks but to find the form that could lift up and inspire the fans in LA as my last chapter. Obviously it’s been a disaster on both fronts but I’ve never worked harder, sacrificed more or faced such a difficult challenge mentally and emotionally.
I understand why some fans are disappointed. I haven’t been able to play a lot of games or at the level we all wanted. Unfortunately that’s a part of pro sports that happens every year on every team. I wish desperately it was different. I want to play more than anything in the world. I’ve lost an incredible amount of sleep over this disappointment.
Competitiveness, professionalism, naiveté and hope that at some point I’d turn a corner has kept me fighting to get back. As our legendary trainer Gary Vitti, who is a close friend, told me, ‘You’re the last to know’ – and my back has shown me the forecast over the past 18-20 months. To ignore it any longer is irresponsible. But that doesn’t mean that life stops.
This may be hard for people to understand unless you’ve played NBA basketball, but there is an incredible difference between this game and swinging a golf club, hiking, even hitting a tennis ball or playing basketball at the park. Fortunately those other activities aren’t debilitating, but playing an NBA game usually puts me out a couple of weeks. Once you’re asked to accelerate and decelerate with Steph Curry and Kyrie Irving it is a completely different demand.
I’m doing what I’ve always done which is share a bit of my off-court life in the same way everyone else does. Going forward I hope we all can refocus our energies on getting behind these Lakers. This team will be back and Staples will be rocking.
When news of Nash needing to miss the season came out, I wrote about how fans are entitled to be disappointed in Nash’s Lakers’ tenure, but we should never lose sight of the fact that no one is more disappointed than Nash himself. He was the one putting in the work to try and return, the one whose body was failing him, who suffered a setback every time it looked like he might have turned a corner. To find out now that he has the types of ailments he has — ailments that, seemingly, could affect the quality of his life moving forward — it seems even more silly to try and take Nash to task for not being able to compete in the NBA for the team we root for.
Injuries happen. They suck and are a disappointment to everyone involved. For the team paying the salary, the fans who want to see this player on the court, and the player who wants nothing more than to compete with his teammates. For Nash, the Lakers, and their fans things didn’t go the way anyone would have wanted. And while I don’t think he needed to write what he wrote to explain things to fans (or anyone else) who questioned him, I am glad that he did set the record straight.
Treylake says
Hopefully this will be the last blog post with Nash as the primary subject. Nash era was a failure, Lakers are taking their lumps and now its time to move on. Nash is irrelevant except as an expiring contract.
Darius Soriano says
Trey,
If I want to write about Nash again, I will. Thanks.
Treylake says
Unless its a trade, you would be wasting our time. Write about Nash on a Suns blog.
Darius Soriano says
Trey,
Then don’t read or comment. I’ll run my site the way I want. If that’s not what you – or anyone esle – want, I couldn’t care less. That is the beauty of having your own site, you can run it how you see fit. I learned a long time ago you can’t please everyone so there is no point in trying. So, yeah.
Treylake says
Relax …
KenOak says
@Darius thanks for another great read. Nash remains the consummate professional and a class act.
@Treylake. Bye Felicia.
stats says
Darius – Thank you for writing about Nash. Sure I wish he had been able to play more games for the Purple and Gold – I think we all wish that! – but the guy is all class. He doesn’t deserve the flack he’s getting for swinging a silly golf club. Hopefully he’ll still contribute to the Lakers, as BScott mentioned he’d like Nash to work with Lin and the other PGs.
Darius Soriano says
Trey,
I’m perfectly calm. I’m only explaining to you – the guy who told me what I should and should not write – how this works. It seems you were confused about the matter so I decided to clarify.
George Best says
Nash owes no explanation. I’m a big fan of the guy. We took a risk, it looked smart at the time, and it failed. Won’t be the last time.
The current front office deserves as much slack as possible because of what the NBA did to us with CP3.
Nash is part of the team so as long as it does not slow down the other Laker news and analysis, I’m glad to read this post.
Nash is class.
MIke says
It’s a nerve ROOT, Steve.
Eric says
Trey, don’t be a jerk.
lakafan says
Dont think anyone is mad at Nash for being hurt and thus not being able to play. Its the fact that he’s getting $9.7m instead of doing the right thing and retiring. Especially since he barely played his first 2 years of the contract.
Spitfire says
@George..well said.
agree says
I’m sure Nash tried as hard as he possibly could to somehow play again. Who in their right mind would want to end a legendary career in the manner he was forced to.
That being said, I would like Nash to work as a coach during practices for the guards/wings. The guy was pulling off shots and plays for years when his best athletic days were far behind him. He was one of the best shooters in NBA history. I’m sure he could help out. He’s getting paid the full amount and taking up a roster spot, that seems reasonable to ask of him. I don’t see how he just chills out the entire year without giving or at least offering those services to the Laker’s team. Since it doesn’t seem he is straight up retiring, get some value from him even if its minimal. At most people’s job’s if they can work at least part-time, they work. So I would expect at least that at this point.
Oldtimer says
I would like to thank Steve Nash for the entertainment he extended to NBA fans over the years. He truly deserves to be in the Hall Of Fame when he retires. Sometimes players are just unlucky at the time of retirement and may exit in the league injured.
My wish he can help our PG’s especially Clarkson and Henry through constructive criticism that only Nash can spot and teach. Lin and Price could get some tips if lakers would re-sign them in the future. What Nash did not accomplish as a Laker, I hope also he could help in scouting Lakers future PG, unless of course, scouting is not in his cup of tea. If you appreciate Kenny Smith game analysis, I think Steve could paint a better picture how a PG should run a smooth P & R.
jerke says
@lakafan, fact of the matter is that Nash was more valuable to the team this way or playing than just retiring before the season. If he had played, he would’ve been invaluable on this talent deficient team – but furthermore his contract has now become worth a tradeable 9.5 expiry contract which will become more valuable as the year goes on – plus the medical exception lakers get for nash not playing this year is 4.8 mill to sign someone else. He’s not taking your money and it actually will prove more beneficial to the Lakers in the end in terms of talent that they could possibly aquire at the end of the year. This way at least they have a chance to get something back – as long as they don’t waste it on another 9mill hill type player!
Rubenowski says
The only thing Nash did wrong is putting it on the internet. The guy was great when he was able to play AND he was WAY underpaid. Keep gettin’ dem checks, Steve!
Warren Wee Lim says
“Agree” – from the other thread …
The ranking that you allude to is BS to me because you know what I have? An eye. I can make a test using it. I don’t see the 17th best offense in the league… and I haven’t started talking about the defense yet. The offense involves Kobe shooting long 2s, no three pointers and no layups apparently coz we don’t have anyone to space the floor.
When you start clamoring for an Ellington/Davis pair to play over our starters, two guys earning the MIN over proven vets there’s something wrong with your team.
Wes Johnson as stretch 4 isn’t looking too bad at this point.
G says
Warren, I was also a little confused so I went to Hollinger’s stats to check the Lakers and they indeed have the 17th ranked offensive efficiency. However, they play with the 4th(!) highest pace. For comparison, Golden State plays with the highest pace and are 7th in offensive efficiency. Your eyes are telling the truth. One would think with the 4th highest pace, Lakers would be a little higher in efficiency.
mud says
hating Steve Nash seems like a pointless occupation.
Thomas Rickard says
When Bynum got hurt bowling last year it created a lot of criticism, while I’m sure Nash has wanted to play, it hasn’t always looked like it, the summer before last he didn’t appear to have any trouble trying to make a professional soccer team, and then came into camp with physical problems, basketball is a non contact sport, soccer isn’t, it’s one of the most demanding sport of them all, certainly more than bowling, I’m sure there were many who wondered which sport had his first interest, it certainly seemed like the Lakers played second fiddle.
Ko says
I don’t know Nash. Never met him. Didn’t like him as a Sun. Drive me crazy with his flopping and great passing. Not crazy about his playing that one game needed to vest his full salary last year.
That being said, show me one person on this site that would have given the money back and I will show you a lie.
Only thing I am sure of is Jerry West is not given 3 year deals out to a 38 year old PG with a history of back problems. And there in lies the real problem.
Jerke says
A couple of math caveats with the Hollinger stats
1. He’s stated fairly often when he had his espn chats that these stats are pretty useless until at least 25 games in when teams start regressing to some sort of mean – otherwise single contests falsely outweigh normal trends.
2. Pace factor is indicative of posessions/not really pace of play in terms of playing uptempo or slow etc.. Fact of the matter is that other teams are scoring more often and playing a bit more uptempo than the lakers – getting scored on often in blowouts tends to lead to LA having the ball in their hands more often/possessions – but not necessarily scoring on those posessions. Furthermore Lakers are 0-5 playing Houston, GS, Clips, and phx twice. All teams that either severely blewout the Lakers or play at a substantially normal higher pace than B Scott would want, Therefore LA’s stats are more an artificial product of their opponents gameplan being forced upon them – rather than Lakers dictating pace of play. Scott wants to play grind it out/slowdown bball – but when the lakers take 20 secs to shoot and miss – opponents are shooting and scoring in 12-15.
3. My own take is that Hollinger stats provide very specific information that might provide a clue or idea as to why a specific team is successful or not – but the best overall consistent ranking stat is pt differential – which even at this early in the game has the Lakers at 30th w -14.8. – which certainly fits closer to the eye test.
TempleofJamesWorthy says
I don’t think many fans hate Steve Nash personally. They hate what he and his situation represent.
Of all the moves the Lakers have made since their last championship, trading for Nash was by far the costliest. Trading for Howard cost the rapidly-declining Andrew Bynum. Letting Lamar Odom go cost almost nothing. Mike Brown and Mike D’Antoni got about as much out of their rosters as any ***reasonable*** person could have expected given age, lack of bench depth, chemistry problem, etc. Yes, letting Dwight and Pau go with no compensation hurt, but that wasn’t entirely within the Lakers’ control.
Nash, however, cost the Lakers two crucial first-round draft picks and there’s a perception (how true the perception is is difficult to determine) that Nash’s salary clogging the salary cap made it more difficult to lure free agents.
So fans look at Nash, think about what they might have been able to get with the draft picks and Nash’s salary slot, and it hurts.So when Nash puts himself in the public eye, Lakers fans express their pain over the opportunity costs of Nash joining the Lakers.
Another factor is simply bad “optics”. If Nash had waited 3 months to publicly admit he’s playing golf, or negotiated a buyout of his contract (even if it saved the Lakers almost no money), or had formally retired, there would be almost no backlash. But his staying on the Lakers’ roster and collecting his full paycheck while he goes and goofs off on the golf course fires up the resentment of every Average Joe/Jane who has to show up to work sick, or take days off without pay when health problem arise. The fans know that’s how the league works, but being so publicly and explicitly reminded of that inequality is bound to provoke resentment.
Finally, the way Nash and the Lakers have handled his post-knee-injury career feels a bit deceptive and manipulative. We can somewhat admire Nash for working as hard as he did to get his body back into basketball condition. But, on the other hand, we also observed how every time he actually ***played***, it set him back. It seems like Nash was unwilling to admit that his body simply could not withstand the rigors of the NBA anymore — unless it was one game every week or two — and the Lakers were unwilling to tell Nash that he was worse than useless, because he was taking up a roster spot and his always uncertain availability made it impossible to either play him or move on without him.
Again, if the Lakers and Nash had publicly stated before the season that Nash’s health issues wouldn’t allow him to play, but he’d be the 15th man on the roster and veteran mentor to younger players, no one would care if he played golf on his days off. But by insisting that he was going to be a rotation player, and then losing that to Nash hurting himself carrying bags — which, if true, highlights just how fragile his body actually is and, if a lie, is a really dumb cover story — makes Laker fans feel like they’ve been spun a tall tale.
Good luck, Steve Nash. You had a great (non-Laker) career. But please quit publicly reminding us that you’re getting paid $9 million+ to NOT play for the Lakers. As fans of the team and people who can’t find anyone to pay us NOT to work, we don’t want to hear about it.
mud says
bad things happened, can’t be helped.
next…
Oldtimer says
In defense of the Laker fans who have “buyers remorse” today after being giddy in the summer of 2011 when Nash was acquired from the Suns:
Isn’t odd that Bynum was cut by Pacers after caught bowling or Vlad R. was chastised for snow boarding, doing these things after declared as injured. While on the case of Steve Nash, he is given a free pass for playing soccer during off season and golfing after openly declaring before the start of the season that he’d be out for the season due to recurring back injuries? How many from several million Laker fans out there who are out on disability like Mr. Nash, yet they continue working, by doing something different that would aid the company that pays their benefits? Nash can do other things other than playing basketball, as a de-facto Coach for PG’s as Scott suggested or maybe help in scouting for Lakers future roster…..at least Laker fans don’t feel jilted, short-changed in this last three years due to freakin injury under DAntoni et al? What they are asking is a fair share of give and take even though he is not contractually obligated to render those services……at least it shows where his heart is than being perceived as a free rider under the power of a contract?
Nash is a consummate professional and maybe someday walk in the hall of fame in Springfield, MA, however can you also blame Laker fans for being angry on optimistic plans that has gone awry due to freaking injuries, Dwight’s rehab stay and series of injuries as if a scourge has befallen to our much storied team? Anger in the sense that this a franchise that went into 7 Finals from 2000 – 2010 and in four years’ time we are bankrupt in talents, people blame Kobe, people blame Scott, nobody blamed the outsiders who took advantage of this team. Enough said!
Ko says
Perfect response Mr. worthy
rr says
TOJW’s post was good. It is understandable that video of Nash playing golf would irritate a subset of Lakers fans, and I think it was decent of Nash to go on-line and talk about it. I think Nash (and the Lakers) would be well-served, however, to add/set up/publicize something such that Nash is actually trying to help the Lakers in a tangible way, like, say, working with Clarkson. That would, if nothing else, improve the optics.
rr says
Jerke,
I looked it up on Bask Ref; with their numbers, the Lakers are 15th in ORTG (105.2 pts/100 poss) and of course dead last in DRTG (120.5 pts/100 poss). Utah is 29th, at 114.7. So, the Lakers are allowing 6 more pts/100 poss. than the next worst team and 10 more PPG than any other team and I expect that to continue.
The O isn’t all that good, and not much fun to watch except for people who just love watching Kobe. But the D, as many observers predicted, is the main reason that the team is not competitive. Obviously, there will be some regression to the mean as the schedule evens out, but the Lakers as constituted now are the worst defensive team in the NBA,either by the numbers, or the eye, nose, or throat test.
Agree says
I’m not claiming that the Laker’s offense is actually good. I agree that the team needs to make lots of changes, I enjoy team basketball not lot’s of ISO’s or long 2’s. I’m just saying that based on statistics the Offense is better than their defense by quite a bit. Mind you, the team’s plus/minus ratio is also thus far not very accurate either given the schedule they have played thus far. Houston until last night was undefeated, and the warriors are beating everybody.
My basic argument is that we have FAR MORE offensive talent on this team, then defensive talent. So work with what you have, improve the offense, use what works, do things that make sense like setting offball picks for open 3’s. Play Lin/Davis more together in PnR situations which was the Laker’s best play in pre-season but all but disappeared once LIn became a starter with Kobe. Work to your strengths. We have the ability to win some games through our offense with a decent defensive effort. I think we have no real chance of winning via defensive superiority with a helter skelter stand and watch Kobe, no three, iso, lane clogging offense.
Agree says
RE: Darius’s Twitter comment about Steph Curry. Yeah, Curry offensively is amazing, I think he’s the much better player at this point in his career anyway compared to CP3. That uber quick release with his sick handle makes for some entertaining games. Warriors if they stay healthy may end up winning the West this year. Bogut makes a big difference for that team. Shows you the power of a defensive minded Center.
Houston continues to show their glaring problem, they have serious issues with passing and some holes in their defense. Houston’s point guards Beverly/Canaan are lucky to get more than 4 assists a game between the two of them. I’m not sold on Houston being anything but maybe and 7th/8th seed and a first round loser again. Personally I would love to watch Dwight and Harden get bumped from the playoffs in the 1st round again–I don’t like either one of them.
Renato Afonso says
As someone who also has two bulging disks and sciatica (which started at age 30…) I can tell you that it is rather painful to play through it but what hurts the most is the next few days after a game. I obviously never played at NBA level but I can assure that competitive basketball takes a big toll on your back. It’s not the running, it’s the amount of impact you get through the course of the game either by jumping, turning a corner to get an open jumper, changing direction on your lateral movement while playing on the ball defense, setting a pick on a bigger man or boxing out for a rebound. These last two things are really bad for your back. Two seasons ago, if someone wants to check it, I made a couple of comments about the danger of having a point guard setting high picks for Gasol or Howard in those HORNS sets because the physical toll on your body just keeps adding up over the course of the game. It’s not that specific play that kept Nash hurt, but it certainly didn’t help.
Oh, and playing football (soccer) has nowhere near the toll on your back that basketball has. First of all, you can run on a grass surface which is way softer than a hardcourt and you don’t need to jump as often nor use a lot of upper body strength. If your legs are fine then your back won’t fail you. It’s about the same for every other sport as long as you’re not doing it at the highest level.
So, while I can understand Nash’s situation and relate to him, there’s no way I can understand the reason we traded for two players with back problems in the same season. I assume the Lakers knew Bynum’s knees were done but maybe we could’ve got someone healthier than Howard for that lone season he stayed here. Same goes for Nash. Back then we (the fans) knew we’re taking a gamble: trading the future for one last run at a championship before Kobe retired. What we didn’t know was that we actually doubled down on that bet, since we were betting on those players’ health as well…
I hope Nash can enjoy the rest of his life pain free and that people remember him as a great player and not an injured old man dragging it out on court every 6 weeks.
karen says
Templeofjames worthy. Exactly what i wanted to say but didn’t have the skills to do it. If anyone follows golf, they would know there is nothing harder on back/sciatic than a golf swing. If his back is that bad why would he do anything to aggrevate it. I use to live in phoenix, loved nash until he left. I think he has blown his legacy with his poor exit strategy
Kevin says
I’m disappointed, as Nash is, that he was rarely healthy enough to contribute as we all would have liked. But I’m not angry that he didn’t decide to retire and that his body failed him.
What I am angry with Nash about, is his decision to abandon the Lakers while he’s still under contract, for $9 mill no less. I’m very disappointed that he doesn’t feel a greater obligation to the Lakers to at least mentor our rookies/young guns. Having Nash in your ear would be invaluable for Lin/Clarkson/etc. But he would rather enjoy his life while on company time and dime.
Baylor Fan says
It is good for Nash to clear the air about his back problems. All the desire in the world does not compensate for an unwilling back. The Lakers gambled and lost. They got a highly motivated player with a broken down body. I hope that Nash can enjoy his after basketball life after sacrificing his body for the game he loved.
J C says
Great thread. Excellent post and professionally written by Darius.
Nash has had a great career and as I mentioned here once before, when he was acquired, Mitch even jokingly stated – at the press conference – that he wasn’t sure he should have given Steve that third year. At that time the team was adding a Hall of Fame point guard to a roster that included Kobe and Gasol, and the addition of Dwight Howard made us look practically invincible. The third year as a toss-in to Steve was intended to be a thank you in advance for two years of competing for a ring.
The Nash acquisition also represented a swift move coming on the heels of the CP3 Veto. The Lakers were decisively trying to maximize Kobe and Gasol’s closing windows of youth.
Nash’s soccer ‘tryout’ wasn’t a serious attempt to become a soccer player. Making that soccer team was an honorary title and was intended as a publicity event. And at the time it was viewed as a good sign that he was able to run around freely since he expected to play basketball in the upcoming season.
I don’t play much golf but I assume it’s a little less strenuous than guarding Steph Curry. And the guy is entitled to a life.
What’s not being said here or anywhere is that the decision to abort Nash’s third year appears to have been the team’s decision. They pick up some insurance money and some possible trade value. They probably told Steve, ‘thanks for trying, you’re more valuable to us not playing. You’re no longer a difference-maker for us.’
The luggage story was just spin and was probably conjured up to qualify for their insurance money or for the league injury exception.
Nash’s final assist to the team is not publicly bad-mouthing them for essentially firing him (with pay), when I believe he really wanted to be out there one more year, even if it would only be for a few scattered highlights and a few more memories.
His public statements are classy and defensible.
Nash still has a long life ahead of him and I wish him the best. I do hope he can mentor the young players this season.
Mid-Wilshire says
As Oldtimer and Kevin have noted above, Nash should at least spend some time with the Lakers’ current point guards — namely, Jordan Clarkson and Jeremy Lin — in imparting some of his knowledge on to them. I realize that he was hired as a player, not a coach. But the former option is now an impossibility. That means that his only way of contributing to the team, which, according to his statement, is a team he still very much supports, would be to help the current Laker PGs as something of a Point Guard consultant.
Considering that he’s getting paid $9.7 million this year, it’s the least he can do. He should at least voluteer to help the team in that manner. That’s what I would do.
barry_g says
I’m not annoyed about Nash not playing; I’m annoyed about Nash not retiring.
Chearn says
-@Oldtimer and Temple of James Worthy-excellent posts.
________
I liked Nash in Phoenix, I still maintain that D’Antoni owes Nash for making him and his offense relevant. One may also regard Lin as a valuable instrument in D’Antoni’s offense, however, I do not. Lin played well for the Knicks during a period when opponents were either preparing for a playoff run or planning the next season’s strategy. Thus, no one scouted or prepared defenses against Lin and the Knicks. On the other hand, Nash played with the Suns for years in and out of D’Antoni’s offense yet scouts could not prevent him for playing his game effectively for the Suns: An incredible feat.
I was apprehensive of the Lakers acquisition of Nash as a player, considering the time he spent at Phoenix laying on the floor on towels. Nonetheless, I was titillated by the image of his P&Rs with Howard, pocket passes to Jamison, and assists to Kobe for easy shots. For one reason or another those examples never transpired consistently.
I find fault with Nash, in that he’s allowed to train Kevin Durant (the opposition) in the off-season but is reticent to extend that same offering to Clarkson or Lin. There’s no doubt Kobe would be open to an offer as Kobe continuously seeks means to add to his game. Kobe is capable of averaging 5-6 assists a game, but those assists will not place him in the upper echelon as a playmaker so he’ll only use that skill set when it’s advantageous to his agenda. As when he can beat a competitor (Boston, Houston, Clippers, Miami) or if assists will help his team advance to a spot in the playoffs (once can dream). Back to Nash, this team needs help with their free-throws why can’t Nash use his 90.4% career to coach the team in particular Randle and Clarkson, but the entire team needs help.
On a separate note, does anyone think Kobe would sit out the first game against the team that knocked them out of the playoffs the prior year with flu-like symptoms?
Jerke says
For what its worth Kobe has also disappeared for long stretches of previous seasons and stayed away from the team last year. Besides which – if I know that my (Nash’s) expirying contract is likely to be traded to another team for other assets then what obligation do I have to a team that is likely to trade me – nor would I feel guilty about accepting and abiding by the terms of my contract given that the injury that has led to the nerve issues happened while playing for the Lakers – an injury that happened 2 games into his contract vs instead of 2 seasons unfortunately. But as mentioned by others – whats done is done.
I think the bigger issue with player development is that B Scott is way harder/less trusting of rookies despite the fact that player evaluation is the only thing really to play for for this year – he should be playing Clarkson/Lin as much as possible and giving them a chance to control the team/basing his gameplan on them vs trying to slowdown and muddy the game up simply to just win a couple more games and lose out on a lottery pic.
@rr – not sure you’re aware but nba.com has vastly upgraded their stats – especially advanced and the player tracking stuff via their sportsvue tech is pretty cool when it comes down tracking individual players – eg Trevor ariza leads the league in having run 13.5 miles during game time on the court.
rr says
Jerke,
Yes–I have been looking at the new SportVu stuff etc. they have up. I use Bask Ref when I want quick access to basics, though.