After winning their 3rd straight game last night in Minnesota — also this thing with Kobe happened, in case you missed it — the Lakers are back in action tonight against Indiana. Playing back to back under normal circumstances is already a difficult task in the NBA, but add in emotional element of last night’s game and tonight will be even more difficult.
The Pacers aren’t a particularly good team, having been dealt a serious blow by the injury to Paul George over the summer and the walking of Lance Stephenson via free agency left their wing rotation sorely lacking. Add to that an injury to George Hill, another to Ian Mahinmi, and the normal bumps and bruises and adjustments that come from having a roster turned over this much and there are bound to be issues.
In some ways, then, a 7-17 record for this group is not that bad. It is nowhere near the team who many thought could compete for a championship last season, but it’s also not as bad as teams like the 76ers or Timberwolves. Their record, more than anything, is reflective of talent available and circumstances thrust upon them by injury and attrition more than any deficiency in coaching or team culture.
Bringing us back to tonight, the Lakers will be in for a grinding battle from a well coached team that can still play strong defense — especially on the back line. In order to win this game, the Lakers will need to find ways to be efficient offensively against a team who wants to surrender the exact type of shots the Lakers have taken in bunches this year. Look for Indy to sag in the P&R and invite mid-range jumpers while also aggressively fighting through screens to run the Lakers wings off their preferred spots and into the teeth of the defense where Hibbert and David West will look to put a bruising on them.
In saying all that, I will be interested in seeing how the Lakers’ bigs match up with the Pacers while also closely monitoring if the Lakers’ wings can escape pressure outside to still create good perimeter looks. If Kobe, Young, Lin, and Ellington can shake free for some clean looks on the perimeter and hit some three point shots in the process, the Pacers’ defense will be spread out and there is a better chance for Jordan Hill, Ed Davis, and Carlos Boozer to do some damage 16 feet and in. But if the clamps get put on the those perimeter threats, the lane will only get more congested and the points will be hard to come by.
In terms of the Lakers’ defense, they really need to find a way to protect the paint and keep the Pacers a perimeter oriented team. While guys like West and Luis Scola can be threats out to 18-20 feet, they can do more damage working 10 feet and in. Keeping them off their spots and rotating to them quickly when they do spot up out of the P&R can keep the Pacers’ offense off balance and make Rodney Stuckey and CJ Watson take on a bigger load.
Tonight offers another winnable game, albeit under circumstances that will create challenges that go beyond dealing with the Pacers. We’ll see if the Lakers are up to it.
Where you can watch: 4:00pm start time on TWC Sportsnet and NBA TV. Also listen on ESPN Radio 710AM.
Robert says
Kobe Alert: I have been projecting when Kobe was going to move by MJ since the beginning of the season. Being at one of these events requires a lot of planning. You need to project when it is going to happen, free the time, possibly get plane tickets, game ticket, etc.. I was behind the bench when Kobe went by Hakeem for 8th at home, and also saw him get by Shaq for 5th in Philly (again behind the bench). I mistimed the move by Wilt by one game last year, as I went to Milwaukee and saw him miss the mark by 3 points. Did not want that to happen here, although the way Kobe started against SA – I thought he was going to do it one game early on me. I already had bought everything for Minny, including a seat right behind the coaches, so things worked out. I got to the Target Center early and there were already a lot of Laker fans present. Just like all away cities, Kobe is like a celebrity, and this night was additionally special. The spot where I was sitting was a really good spot as Kobe came and sat down in front of me a number of times, and Byron’s huddles were right there. I could hear much of what was being said, and could see him diagramming plays on his board. I was a little elevated over the huddle even though I was right behind it. Over the past couple of years the enthusiasm in the huddles and from the bench has been a little lacking. Not so on this night. Everyone was very engaged and lots of cheering. A lot of this had to do with Kobe’s night, but also I sensed the team was psyched about trying to get three straight. I spoke a little to Thomas Scott, Larry Lewis, and actually quite a bit to Clay Moser. He was actually turning around and giving me tidbits and commentary. The set up was a little odd, becasue there was barely space between where I was sitting and the coaches, so people could not even get through (this is why I was really able to hear and see almost everything – it was amazing). The coaching team was more engaged than I have seen since the Phil days. They were calling out sets and warning our defense where to go and such. The players were also animated and engaged. Boozer acknowledge us in the crowd a coupe of times (monster game by him), and Swaggy tried to be his usual self even though he an off night. J Lin seems a little lost at times and some of the coaches seemed a little frustrated with him. The big difference in demeanor tonight was Kobe. Right from the start he acknowledged the crowd and gave some head nods to us, which he rarely does. He is usually all business. He also was more animated and engaged in the huddles. He was like an extra coach at times as he and Byron were trading off talking in a couple of huddles. Kobe started a little slow, but the place was buzzing. When he came back in during the second quarter, the time period from then until he broke MJ’s mark was just electric. We were all anticipating his every move and the place just went nuts when he hit the three pointer and then the free throws. The Wolves did this up right so props to them. Stopped the game, give him the ball, etc.. When I was in Philly and he moved by Shaq, they did not even acknowledge it. Although me and some others were close enough to do it ourselves. I have followed Kobe for 19 years and being on the video where he is hitting the foul shots to top MJ is just a very cool thing. The time period after was very emotional, and the embrace between him and Byron was great The Wolves fans and team really showed a lot of respect. The fact that we won the game for our third straight made it even better. Let’s see what we do tonight as it could be 4 straight ! Kobe Rules !
Robert says
rr, Chearn, Tra, KenOak, Fern, Purple, Lil Pau, Ko, Anyone I missed: Thanks for all the mentions in the previous thread. Was thinking about you guys during the game.
Kobe: At tip off tonight Kobe tied Hondo for 2nd in games at 1269. He needs 49 minutes to go by Hondo for 10th minutes. He has pulled into a tie with Jermaine O’neal for 55th all time in Defensive Rebounds and ill move by him with one tonight. KB needs 4618 points to catch Karl Malone for 2nd. Continuing our winning streak looks shaky so far.
Ko says
BS not a fan of time outs when your 2 for 18?
Aaron says
Thy need to pull Kobe. It’s only the first quarter but it looks like he is gojng to get hurt tobight. He looks 55 years old.
harold says
dang robert, jealous… I am in Minneapolis but I could not go because of finals… and I am older than Kobe too lol.
Ko says
Why the H is Kobe playing? Is Scott stupid? Rest him!
Hale says
19 v 51, Man, what I did I walk into?
LKK says
Whole team is stinking it up tonight!! Ugliest half of Lakers, bball I’ve ever seen. Unreal!!
Chearn says
Egads!!!!!
I think I’ll save my anxiety and watch Duke.
Thanks, Robert. love the Kobe Alert.
Kevin T says
Even though Kobe has missed a lot of shots, I like the way he is playing. Heart.
LKK says
Lakers getting their clocks cleaned, very little chance of winning this game and yet Kobe is playing like a madman and his teammates are following suit. That’s leadership.
Kris says
He’s 8 for 26. But you like the way Kobe’s playing. Ok.
LKK says
Thanks Robertfor that great summary of the Minnesota game. Congrats on being there!
Chearn says
Take Lin out and put Clarkson in, please.
Price should never ever shoot.
Hale says
Can Clarkson get five minutes in a million point blow out? Did he get caught abusing Scott’s pet armadillo?
pat oslon says
The second game of Back 2 back games is like walking the GREEN MILE!
hop says
Not sure why Price ever gets into the game he shoots 29% for the season.
Kobe minus -26 and was 8-26.
Still trying to figure out what do we see in Price. B. Scott and this coaching staff might be the worst in the league.
Oldtimer says
“So will recent team results turn the Lakers into buyers, sellers, or have no absolutely no effect on their plans for the season?” – BCS
I think no effect. They are sitting on so much cash, choosy in arming themselves, only marquee players or high draft picks and nothing in between. The answer to all questions: “we’re aboard, we listen to fans, feeling you…… during the rebuilding years. Go Kobe.”
After three W’s, I thought they are ready for 500 in Indianapolis, woe, they’ve the Smart car on their legs, so back to El Segundo drawing board and take more vitamins.
Reggie Hammond says
I expected a loss after an emotional night, a back to back & soft small “bigs” vs tough real bigs…but dayum that was OOGLY
karen says
I went to the stats and saw nick with 18 points in 21 minutes and yet scott pulls him. I am beginning to think scott and the lakers don’t want nick to outshine kobe
BigCitySid says
-@ Robert, so happy for you and those incredible moments. Thanks for sharing.
-Lakers continue to modify record books this season: “The Lakers trail the Pacers by 33 points at half. This is tied for their worst halftime deficit since the team moved to LA in 1960 (also trailed by 33 at half against the Clippers last season)”. ESPN Stats & Information
-Can’t really be surprised at last night’s results. Not to make excuses, but it was a back to back, on the road, after a very emotional & historical night ending in a win which extended the Lakers win streak to a season high three.
-@ Oldtimer, I’m feeling the same way.
-Jordan Clarkson sighting.
btoy says
Coach Byron Scott is one of a kind in the NBA history where he uses one player as a point guard and at the same time a shooting guard…. and I agree they don’t want to outshine their star player …. a low shooting percentage….what a lost….is it moving forward or moving backward…
Oldtimer says
Just few comments on what btoy observed on Byron. True, he uses Kobe a lot as a PG and SG not because he is the superstar but I’d say the most capable player out there to manage the game. He gets low shooting % because of the degree of difficulty on his shots to be executed within 2 or 3 seconds before 24 second expires. His teammates pass the ball back to him or maybe, the coaching staff has devised this play for him. Undeniably, he also commits lots of TO’s but at times, it becomes an assist too. Therefore, if you count the field goals made + assists, how much contribution did he make for the team? Last night, on the 3rd Q rally, it was led by Kobe but they can just do enough….he misses his former teammates like Pau or Fish or Horry or Fox or Trevor or MWP or Shaq (during their prime) who could really make the difference in turning around a 30-pt lead. In the first place, why did they reach this huge margin if there was a good defense? Blame it on b2b, on the road, aging, I’d say lacking of talents on our roster. What we have are one dimensional players good in defense but lacking on offense or vice versa. Sometimes good in both when there is full moon or rainy day (j/k). Our roster except Kobe, our lone old, coming from injury Superstar and maybe Swaggy P a decent mid-tier star who could do semi all-around jobs. We need at three more in PG, SF and C, This is where you have to pay the player who is good in defense, has a good ppg and a wily veteran, I think even if you hire a salesman, a plumber, an electrician to do work in your house, you look a semblance of those qualifications, isn’t it?
Aaron says
As it turns out Kobe doesn’t shoot many shots against the shot clock. His FG percentage as the coach breaks down isnt due to bad teammates. As you will see it is due to his lack of athletisism and lack of understanding of what a good shot is.
http://bballbreakdown.com/2014/12/13/kobe-bryant-still-good-enough-go-off-teammates/
On a side note games like last night are what I’m going to think about when I think about Kobe. On his last legs of his career on the back end of a back to back Kobe looks just awful but he plays the entire game like its a game 7 against the Celtics.
Chris J says
On his last legs of his career on the back end of a back to back Kobe looks just awful but he plays the entire game like its a game 7 against the Celtics.
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I’m confident this was not what you meant in your comment praising Kobe’s dedication, but there was some amusing irony in your words considering last night’ shooting line of 8-26 was pretty close to the 6-24 line Kobe put up against Boston in Game 7.
Kobe’s remarkable. One of the best ever.
Robert says
Thanks Chearn, BCS, Harold and LKK
Coaching: Byron is certainly not Phil or Pat (or Pop if you must). His career record is not very good. He has had some spots of success in his career. Guess what – that makes him fall in the same category as many NBA coaches. When MD was hired, I was furious. We had a chance to hire Phil (the greatest of all time), and we did not. After it was apparent that Phil was gone for good and our roster deteriorated, I “somewhat” changed my tune (go back and look at my posts). At that point there was really no “urgency” to change coaches and I even said if it is going to be a circus, then who better to lead it than MD. The Byron bashers need to ask the same question. If we canned Byron during or at the end of this year, that would make us look horrible in the coaching decision department, and after us going though 3 coaches in 3-4 years, who would want t come here? And to what end? How much better is the team going to play? I think coaching can make a huge difference when you are at the top. A guy like Phil can take the “6th” best team and make them a champion. He can’t take the 25th best team and make them a contender (nobody can- you need talent). Lin, Price, and Clarkson were a combined 3-16 (with Price shooting the best ironically). Add zero rebounds and 4 dimes amongst all of them in a combined 47 minutes. How is changing their playing time a significant solution for anything? Clarkson – I can see giving more minutes just to see what we have, but for adding wins, I doubt it. With regard to Young, at times when he is going well, he can be very effective, but other times, like the Wolves game, he is not. Also when he gets the ball – geez – talk about a 1 man offense with 4 guys standing around, watching Nick dribble through his legs 6 times and then launch a three. I actually find Young entertaining, but giving him more minutes to significantly increase wins – I do not see it. Byron is who he is with the timeouts. Byron stands up at half-court 3/4 of the game, so most of the stuff he just barks out directly when the team is crossing mid-court Phil rarely called timeouts, and Riles was a big fan of standing up at mid-court (clearly who Byron is emulating). Byron is obviously the right coach for Kobe (other than he overplays him just like MD did), and he has a good Laker pedigree (the reasons I support him). If someone gives me a compelling reason that we need some other coaching quality (right now), and of course a coach who is available and qualified to replace him – I am all for it. Otherwise we should ride out the next 1/2 or perhaps 1 1/2 years and then see what’s up. In the meantime, everyone can have good fun questioning why Byron is playing one sub-par player instead of another : ) You have to concede that he was once again dressed impeccably for all the Kobe photos in Minnesota : )
Tankyou says
Agree with Aaron’s recent comment regarding Kobe’s efficiency. He is not taking a ton of last second shots, he is gunning early in the shot clock more than most of his teammates. IF anything he is dumping it late in the shot clock to teammates when struggling with a double team for them to jack up bad shots. I swear people watch different games. I would say being double teamed certainly isn’t helping Kobe take good shots, and he has become basically a jump shooter. Earlier in his career his liberally dunked on people and went to the hole and scored so it helped keep his shooting percentage high. He doesn’t have that fall back onto anymore, now he makes more long 2’s than he does 3 feet and unders.
Kobe’s shot chart this season isn’t pretty, but basically he should avoid 3’s and only go to the hole when is he wide open, otherwise he seems to shoot long 2’s better than most people do oddly enough its his strength. He really needs to chill on the 3 point shooting, he hits one and then goes on to jack up two or three in a row sometimes afterwards–but he clearly can’t shoot them well. This blame the teammates for his bad shooting stuff is garbage. Especially when nearly all of them shoot better than he does, besides Price. So its hard to blame their “bad shooting” or “lack of talent” when everyone else is still shooting over 40% or like Hill/Boozer around 50%.
Calvin Chang says
Byron is a mediocre coach because the spacing on offense is horrible most of the time, and he’s not putting Kobe in the right position to maximize Kobe’s skills at this age. Byron already stumbled upon the formula in the wins against Raps and Hawks. Kobe played mid-low post in those games, and looked to pass first. If Kobe gets the ball 15 feet with his back to the basket, he can create a high-percentage shot anytime with single-coverage. So teams will have to scramble and double-team. If Byron gets his team to space properly and cut, and Kobe looks to pass, they will get a good shot 80% of the time. Instead, Kobe’s launching a lot of contested long 2’s from 20-feet and beyond. He’ll make some, but it is a low percentage shot and wears Kobe out.
Ko says
Kobe was a once in a life time super star. Was! Looking at his numbers now is not pretty. Of the top 30 scorers in the NBA only one is under 40% Kobe and just happens to lead the league in shots and his usege rate is really bad. This is not a avenue for success. No way Pops, Phil or Riley would allow this. Can’t win many games shooting 30% and taking more shots then the other 4 starters. Now we know why Scott the enabler was hired. Are they trying to win or trying to just let Kobe get his points no matter what the results. His shooting this year in the last 2 minutes of games is under 30%. Not the type of basketball I enjoy. Like letting a running back carry the ball 50 times so he can avarage 100 yards a game.
Ko says
FYI
Laker rating announced down 28% since start of season and down 54% once 2012-13. That will cost based on TW contract.
Chearn says
Wiggins might win rookie of the year because all of the other candidates are out with injuries.
Anonymous says
Ko: FYI. Laker rating announced down 28% since start of season and down 54% once 2012-13. That will cost based on TW contract.
—
Which again points to how out of touch the FO is. What did they anticipate would be the outcome of all the poor decisions that they have made? It follows: hubris in the FO + bad teams on the floor = poor ratings.
Maybe the only way to effect true change is to hit the Buss family where it hurts most: their cash flow. I know they still made $100 million last year, however, what if they only make $75 million this year and $50 mil next year? At some point someone will be upset at diminished returns.
hop says
We make every excuse for Kobe and Scott. Kobe shoots poor then it’s his team mates fault. If Kobe turns the ball over like he did in San Antonio it’s Lin fault who was on the bench. Bad start to the pacers game, it was his teammates fault who was open while he was taking bad shoots. Shoots under 40% and now he handles the ball in the clutch it’s every body else fault. Doesn’t practice but it’s his teammates that are soft.
BigCitySid says
-B. Scott is a company man. He knew before taking the coaching job Lakers wouldn’t/couldn’t have what anyone could possibly consider a “successful” season. This season’s “goal” was just about MJ scoring chase by Kobe. FO needed a coach who was willing to let Kobe finish his career on his (Kobe’s) term…and they got one.
-Finally more and more people are realizing once “The Contract” was signed, the Lakers kissed off any chances they had of being in the conversation of title contender for a minimum of two to three years.
– “Laker rating announced down 28% since start of season and down 54% once 2012-13. That will cost based on TW contract.” This is GREAT news and something I was hoping for. Shows an on court winning product matters. And now that Kobe has passed MJ, ratings should continue to go down. Just because we hardcore fans are addicted to this mess, I’m glad the general public isn’t and can find other things to do.
Tankyou says
The offense or what passes for one is still not much of a system beyond some 2 man play. Pick n’ Pops, rarely a Pick n’ Roll, Kobe iso’s with an occasional player that slashes. They don’t follow the strengths or flow of the game either, it becomes the Kobe show even when other players are doing amazing. So Lin starts scoring like crazy, bench him. Jordan Hill is making every shot, nah just let him get 10 touches even if he shoots near 100%.
Kobe/ Young are the only guys who seem to really have a green light. For everyone else, it doesn’t matter if they are shooting lights out on a given night or they have a great match-up b/c Kobe or Young are going to shoot regardless. Who else on this team is really allowed to even shoot 20 shots, no matter how great they are playing on a night? I don’t even remember anyone else shooting 20 shots, maybe Young did before. So this team doesn’t even follow the hot hand strategy, because Kobe is going to be shooting regardless if his teammates are playing well or not. That’s on the coaching and Kobe to some degree. Some guys are clearly jacking up some bad shots also, knowing that if they don’t shoot when they touch it, they have no real chance of shooting. IF Kobe misses 10 in a row, no worries, keep on shooting. If Hill makes 5 in a row, no worries, you may only get to shoot a couple more times the rest of the game.
What ever happened to the “attack the basket” ideology? I don’t know the data, but the eye test suggests this team is basically abandoning the shots at the rim for lots and lots of jumpers. Yet Young barely hits 40% and Kobe is clearly a sub 40% shooter, unless he plays less, rests more and quits shooting so many bloody 3’s!
Stuart says
Anon: I think that the FO, Jim specifically, did not factor in the likely loss of attendance/viewership/ratings in his decisions about coaching and personnel. I believe that Jim felt that securing Kobe for two more years was sufficient cover while he tried to figure out what he was doing.
Last year and this year clearly demonstrate that the Lakers are not immune to what the rest of the professional sports world knows: winning = good ratings; losing = bad ratings. This is where the ‘hope’ factor would fill in for the lack of talent; if there was hope that the Lakers could right the ship in a timely manner I think there would be less of a drop in the ratings.
The lower ratings are a reflection of the significant lack of confidence that this rough patch is simply a natural evolution in the course of getting the franchise back on top (many fans are starting to realize that there is no plan aside from the FO hoping to hit a home run via an elite FA signing) and there is a real possibility that the Lakers could be stuck in mediocrity for an extended period of time.
Trip says
Stuart: The lower ratings are a reflection of the significant lack of confidence that this rough patch is simply a natural evolution in the course of getting the franchise back on top (many fans are starting to realize that there is no plan aside from the FO hoping to hit a home run via an elite FA signing) and there is a real possibility that the Lakers could be stuck in mediocrity for an extended period of time.
____
I’m not sure that many casual fans make viewership decisions beyond whether the Lakers are playing well or not at the time. The team has been un-watchable for the last year plus so it makes sense that the ratings would dip.
I think you are right that Jim and Jeannie made the decision to bring back Kobe because they felt he would keep the Lakers relevant and retain viewers. Unfortunately that has not happened.
I lump Jeannie in this discussion because I think as the one in charge she has some responsibility for this mess as well. As the head of a business its her job to ensure that the Lakers profitability grows over time.
Even if you believe her claim not to understand personnel decisions she had to realize that to be a competitive team you need at least three really good players to win. The last two years the Lakers have not done that so a logical question from Jeannie might be, “Jim, there’s a lack of star talent on the team – what’s the plan to acquire better players? As President I have to be mindful of attendance, our TWC contract and local radio partners. A large part of our revenues are tied to ratings and ratings are tied to how competitive we are.”
Jeannie’s been around long enough to know that an improvement plan designed solely around the potential of signing elite FAs, in this current NBA environment, is a crap shoot. We aren’t privy to discussions between Jeannie and Jim. It’s possible that Jim’s ‘three year window to turn this around’ is the result of Jeannie getting in his face about the mess on the floor. We can only hope so.
J C says
Even though Mitch and company pulled off the Gasol trade and later, ‘almost’ parlayed that into CP3, it seems the wheels have pretty much come off since then. Losing Dwight and then Gasol is proof of that.
I doubt tanking has ever really entered their minds, but Kobe’s contract, more than any other factor, has effectively strangled the franchise. And its eventual effects were clear as a bell to me the instant I heard of it.
One-man teams simply cannot compete in today’s NBA, and #24’s personality and tendencies to alienate potential teammates had to be a fact well known by management.
Those responsible for this miscalculation include the Laker ‘big three’ (Jim, Jeannie, Mitch) and IMO it was an error so egregious that it reveals true ineptitude.
The franchise will rise again but I doubt it happens under current ownership.
In the meantime, I’ll be at the game Friday.
Haha
Ko says
JC sounds like a guy who point out the evils of smoking on his way to buy a case of cigs.
Stuart says
Trip: It’s possible that Jim’s ‘three year window to turn this around’ is the result of Jeannie getting in his face about the mess on the floor. We can only hope so.
—
I speak for a large percentage of Laker fans when I say that I wish Jim had a one year window versus a three year one.
Unfortunately, the reality is that even if we picked a great new FO team to oversee the reconstruction of the Lakers, it would still take at least three years to get back to championship level. Yes, we have fallen that far behind.
Robert says
hop: “We make every excuse for Kobe and Scott.” They are the star player and the coach of a bad team, so of course they bear responsibility. It is the level of responsibility that is where some of us differ. Kobe and Byron could do some things better. However the FO could have done a lot of things better. And we have had bad luck. Ignoring the fact that the FO bears significant responsibility, and the injury/bad luck factor is putting too much on Byron/Kobe. Go ahead and put 5 losses on them (maybe 10 if you are aggressive with that. So the other 40-50 are explained with other causes.
J C: “Those responsible for this miscalculation include the Laker ‘big three’ (Jim, Jeannie, Mitch) and IMO it was an error so egregious that it reveals true ineptitude. ” Indeed
Trip: “It’s possible that Jim’s ‘three year window to turn this around’ is the result of Jeannie getting in his face” Don’t know, but what I do know is that no other GM gets a 3-4 window. They are all evaluated annually if not more often.
BCS: “Finally more and more people are realizing once “The Contract” was signed” Well – we are losing, so it is hard to defend these type of decisions right now. Wait until summer – hope will spring eternal again, and people will be defending the contract and other actions once again.
Stuart: “while he tried to figure out what he was doing. ” Way too funny !
T. Rogers says
Not surprised about the ratings drop. There is just so much better basketball out there to watch. Plus, seeing the Lakers get embarrassed every other game is just demoralizing for me as a fan. Yes, Kobe is a draw. But seeing him hoist up long, fade away jumpers on dead legs while the team is getting blown out just isn’t entertaining.
Vasheed says
Too much blame on Kobe. He shares the ball when he believes in his team mates and shoots over 5 guys at a low percentage when he has no confidence in his team mates. Its not new for him. I kinda just shrug at this.
Kobe’s contract could be smaller but the real back breaker is Nash’s dead contract. You can sign a pretty good player for 10 million who isn’t playing now. They have under performing Lin at a little over 8 million (cap) and Hill as well as he is playing I don’t believe is worth 9 million. There is a lot of dead weight salary on this roster.
I still think the F.O. did about as well as they could have when they started signing players but holding out to squeeze an super-star into their pay roll is what eventually killed this season. When you have to start filling out starting positions with minimum salary vets who aren’t coming to you to chase rings you are going to have problems.
All this said the one saving grace is that they did manage to have a lot of expiring contracts. They can stay pat likely hand over a good pick to the suns and have lots of FA money next season, trade for talent and try to win games this year and maybe have the beginings of a play off team next year, or they can sell their assets get picks possibly keep their pick this year and have a rebuilding year next year. It is what it is, I have no insight into which way Mitch and company is going to go, and all I can say is hope they are not drowned in indecision again.
Lil pau says
Ko, you’ve mentioned several times that the lakers revenue from the TW deal is tied to ratings. Are you 100 percent sure of this? I ask in good faith because I have some contacts with the lakers – I don’t talk about this much – and no one I’ve spoken to has seen the TW deal. This is different than being.told ‘I can’t tell you that’, which I’ve heard plenty, this is about that that contract is under wraps like the nuclear launch codes (at least on the lakers side) so I guess I’m asking you for a honest assessment of your confidence that your source really knows what he’s letting on. Again, more than one moderately senior lakers person has told me they have no idea if the contract incentivizes ratings. I think it’s possible this is only known to the highest level lakers and TW execs and their legal departments.
teamn says
Robert,
Thanks so much for the write-up on your experience at the game, truly fascinating. As a fan, sometimes it is hard to appreciate the work and effort that goes into each game itself — your prose brought that to life for me again. A nice respite from the years long tale of woe…
sufian says
clipper ratings are also down. There are other factors than just a bad laker team.
Stuart says
sufian: clipper ratings are also down. There are other factors than just a bad laker team.
___
Apples and Oranges comparison. The Clippers, in Los Angeles, have always been a unique case study. So I wouldn’t necessarily correlate a ratings decline for each team to be driven by the same factors.
sufian says
I agree, my point is their are other factors in the television ratings than just a good team or a bad team. I am a die hard Laker fan and my reason for not watching most Laker games is because of the dispute between Dish Network and Time Warner.
Trip says
Likely more competition for teams seeking the bottom of the standings. Milwaukee just lost Parker for the year with a knee injury. I’m sure they will go all in for one of the top college centers. Can you imagine that team with Okafor – yikes!
Its looking more and more like the Lakers will lose their pick this year. A devastating blow if you were hoping for a quicker turn around. Another young controllable talent would have helped make the Lakers more appealing to FAs down the road.
Absent that home run elite FA signing, Stuart may be right, we could be in for an extended stay in mediocrity.
Oldtimer says
Lil Pau is right, Ko, I don’t think you could tie up a contract to ratings. This is not a talk show or a sitcom wherein the network renews contracts every season based on competitive ratings. Sponsors will always go with the shows that have the highest ratings to promote their product to larger base of audience. This is a contract mutually agreed upon by Lakers and TWC that they have the rights to broadcasting for the next 20 years at the price of $ 3B in 2012.
Essentially, the cable subscribers who are “us”, the foolish Laker fans will pay this deal monthly to the cable networks broadcasting the Lakers. Dish, Direct TV, AT&T, Verizon pay those rights to TWC which will soon merge with Comcast. Therefore, if Lakers keep on tanking every season, you will witness subscribers flight in droves by cancelling additional charges from their basic cable, it would follow suit from the major contractors maybe just be four cable because Direct TV will soon merge with AT&T too, may cancel their Laker coverage on their package to be competitive with their fees. In economics, when the demand is low, the price has to go down. Having said that TWC/Comcast, AEG may have a leverage if they have minority ownership of the Lakers, that is another story. Sponsors, season ticket holders, minority stockholders, local media, avid fans like us could soon pressure Mr. Jim Buss to quit or find successor to merit further patronage. Therefore, the ratings are good barometer indirectly affect the whole business because it portrays fans reaction with the moribund state of the Lakers. Low ratings don’t cancel the contract inked with TWC. Well the Lakers have a PR dept. that neutralizes negativity, bad publicity of the Buss Family or repackage the image of the team, but their influence depends on W and L. Can Mr. Black convince fans to come back, subscribe to cable if Lakers are perennial losers?
Precisely, this is the reason why tanking is not a good prescription to any team? Nobody wants to be associated with a “Loser” especially in Hollywood and LA. Let us use a family unit as an example, will you reward your son/daughterl if he/she continues to N.S. (Not Satisfactory grades in three consecutive years in high school? You will be worried with his social standing with peers that could fall into wrong direction; worried his future in college, worried about the financial dependence to his/her parents up to Age 30. A loser creates a whole gamut of problems that are hard to solve.
Anonymous says
lil pau – Ko does not know. He has stated before its only a guess. But, ask yourself, would it make sense for the Lakers to tie up a revenue stream they need based on unpredictable ratings?
the other Stephen says
Things that remind me of Byron’s inability to put his role players in better positions to succeed: 1) the Hawks, who in contrast have bent over backward to generate the looks that their players are most proficient at (e.g., Korver), and 2) the Diamondbacks, who once restricted now-Dodger Brandon McCarthy from throwing the suite of pitches he was most successful with.
Unrelated, a neat article from the Hardwood Paroxysm network: http://nyloncalculus.com/2014/10/16/putting-point-guards-box/
Robert says
Lil pau: For what it is worth, Henry Abbot seems to agree with Ko.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/235264/Lakers_Annual_Income_From_Local_TV_Deal_Hinges_On_Ratings
From the article: “One well-placed source who has reviewed Lakers team finances says the Lakers’ annual income from that deal hinges on ratings, which tend to go up when Bryant is on the court. ”
We also have the 5th highest attendance in the league for road games which is pretty good considering our record.
Trip says
Anonymous: Regarding the TWC contract and whether it is tied to ratings. Well, you are correct no one really knows. Although, I have worked many deals (smaller in size of course) and it would be unusual for there not to be triggers on each side of the deal tied to a what in essence would be a variable revenue stream. This is a lot of money to be talking about without a safety net for each participant. But again, we don’t know for sure.
An argument in favor of at least a very high minimum payment going to the Lakers is this: TWC was present at the DHoward and CAnthony FA presentations. Were they there as a good partner or to protect their massive investment — knowing that without the star players theTV ratings would not support the payments needed to be made to the Lakers?
I’m sure one of the FBG posters has some additional insight that will help us all understand the situation.
Ko says
LilPau
First source is John Irland Laker radio voice and 710 voice who talked about it on radio 3 months ago second source is attorney/manager of Laker coach who confirmed in several occasions and I see often here in Newport. I also spoke to M. Thompson also Laker radio guy and on 710. If it was one source I would agree but 3 is fairly strong. If you were TW attorneys would you not do the same if all your revenue comes from advertising dollars and rating are basis for r rates? It’s not t like the sell tickets or get a piece of parking.
Oldtimer says
“Time Warner to broadcast games features annual income that hinges on ratings, according to sources.” – Robert links on Henry Abbott
I think HA was referring to sponsors of TWC whose continued sponsorship depend on ratings. Lakers contract with TWC are the broadcasting rights. This is similar to a patent owned by a drug company. Whoever owns the patent they have full control on the costs and distribution of that particular brand for the next 20 years. Once the patent expires, then other distributors could step in declare it as a generic drug, bring down the price and open to other distributors such as Costco Pharmacy.
Going back to TWC, you may own the rights to broadcast the Lakers for 20 years if there is no market for Lakers – sponsorship, cable subscribers, then why will they pay Big Game James, McGee, Coach Miller and roving color analysts big bucks? who assumes the loss? Will it be the loser Laker honcho? Nope, it is TWC/Comcast. Jim Buss is smiling, sitting pretty with cold cash doesn’t care what we all think about him however he loses credibility in the arena.
lil pau says
Trip, TW was present at those meetings to ‘sell’, not to ‘buy’. Specifically, they were there to convince the players of the ancillary benefits of the TW/Lakers relationship (possibilities for their own TV shows, how their distribution network benefits the players via merchandise sales, etc). DH, Carmelo (and his wife), and LBJ would benefit differently from what TW could offer; each has a unique relationship to ‘Hollywood’ and TW was there to sell them on how being a Laker could make their non-basketball media dreams come true.
Oldtimer says
Here is what I am interested, how much percentage from $3B deal was recouped by TWC from the increment income derived after getting the contract? Perhaps, someone here has a privy to the accounting that reflects the rate of return on investment of the Lakers deal. I heard from an insider that in one year alone when Nash, Howard joined the Lakers, they already got 1/3 of the deal. I don’t know whether that was true. I heard the Lakers TV deal was a benchmark that opened other opportunities like the Dodgers TWC deal, Balmer’s interest to purchase the Clippers for $2B and Commissioner Silver NBA broadcasting rights with TNT and ESPN.
PurpleBlood says
Robert,
thanks for the write-up; i was looking forward to reading it! & knowing you were there made me feel i (& as you mentioned, everyone here) was being represented in a small way, a good feeling –
d´ya think the fellas partied a little afterwards?
___
re: Byron Scott
personally, i WANT Byron to succeed as our head coach; if, yes it´s a gargantuan if, we can get Mamba his 6th ring, having Byron at the helm would be fitting (at least for me). keep it in the family, baby!
Ko says
Laker deal was $5 billion Oldtimer over 25 years.
Oldtimer says
Ko, it is just $3B for 20 years, here is the link:
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/10/26/time-warner-cable-lakers.ap/index.html
Ko says
You are right the story in the Times had it a $5. Guess I should have confirmed first. LA times not good. My bad.
Darius Soriano says
I have seen reports that have the Lakers’ deal ranging between 3 to 4 billion dollars over 20 years with an option to have it go to 5 billion over 25 years. I would not doubt that the variance in numbers is tied to ratings.
R says
@ Trip “…and there is a real possibility that the Lakers could be stuck in mediocrity for an extended period of time.”
Mediocrity is sounding pretty good right about now …
Tra says
Off Topic:
But there’s one helluva game going on right now between Memphis and San An. Currently in Triple Overtime .. Best game of the season thus far and possibly an instant (regular season) classic.
Chris J says
Please, let’s not starting describing anything Henry Abbott and his supposed unnamed sources may have to say under credible information. Some journalists can get away with that “sources said” act for a bit, but they need to earn credibility among readers first, and even with that, unattributed info only goes so far.
When it comes to coverage of The Lakers and Kobe, Abbott’s writings are as useful as the dried up piss on the men’s room floor at Staples Center. You only notice it because it’s annoying when sticking to your shoes.
BigCitySid says
-My understanding was that the TW cable deal w/ the rating tie in played a major role w/ the Lakers justifying the $$ amount of “The Contract”.
-Robert, not surprised pertaining to Lakers drawing large attendance on the road. “No question people wanted to see Kobe “at least one more time” and definitely wanted to be there to see him pass MJ. Let’s see what happens now.
-Anonymous, “But, ask yourself, would it make sense for the Lakers to tie up a revenue stream they need based on unpredictable ratings?” I ask you, would it make sense for the Lakers to only protect their 1st round draft pick to a top five based on PREDICTABLE tanking strategies by other teams.
-Hearing Boston is ready to move Rhondo. In talks w/ Rockets, Mavs, Knicks, & Lakers. He could be the difference in Houston. Mavs need him even more. ‘Melo & Rhondo could actually start turning the Knicks around next season (good bye triangle). But on the Lakers?? Don’t see it. Both he and Kobe are ball dominate guards. If you were 29 year old Rhondo (UFA July ’15), would you sign w/ Lakers knowing they won’t sniff contender relevance until you are 32-33?
T. Rogers says
Remember when Marc was seen as Pau’s little brother? Well those days are over with. Marc is a legit NBA star. Skill wise he may have taken the mantle from his brother as the most skilled big in the league. I was so glad to see them beat San Antonio. Yes, its just a regular season game. But it was one heck of a game.