Coming off Sunday’s loss to the Kings, Kobe Bryant has become the key focus of most pundits’ thoughts on the Lakers. The typically great Zach Lowe summed it up thusly in his latest column:
The league’s vaudeville freak show rolls on, with Kobe Bryant upchucking one of the very worst games you’ll ever see from a high-volume scorer Sunday against the Kings — an 8-of-30 festival of contested 22-footers, with nine Kobe turnovers tossed in as a free sideshow.
Opponents have outscored the Lakers by 13.3 points per 100 possessions with Bryant on the floor, per NBA.com. The Lakers have flipped that figure almost on its head when Kobe sits, destroying teams by about 11 points per 100 possessions. The sample size is small, and Bryant is going up against top opposing units as a starter for a terrible team; Jordan Hill and Wesley Johnson, the Lakers’ other full-time starters, also have ugly splits by this metric.
But they’re not as ugly as Kobe’s, and the Lakers’ positive scoring margin without him is massive — about equivalent to Golden State’s league-best mark. Bryant leads the league in shot attempts and usage rate. He is shooting 37 percent. No one in NBA history has faced so little accountability. It is absurd on its face. Bryant has hijacked the entire organization.
Some Lakers’ fans might take umbrage with the tone of Lowe’s writing, but the key is the information provided. Kobe had one of the worst games I’ve seen him play…well, ever. The lack of crispness to his game and the lack of adjustments made throughout was a sight to see, especially from a player who has typically found ways to impact the game positively even if he is not at his best. And, sadly, this has been a too frequent occurrence this season (as his on/off court numbers speak to).
For me, however, my frustrations with this situation not only lie with Kobe, but with those empowering and enabling him to work in the manner he is. Kobe is still a player and part of a team and an organization. While Lowe says that Kobe has “highjacked” the organization, I am more of the mind that some of the blame must lie at the feet of his coach and the front office for not sitting the player down and re-engaging him in discussions on expectations and what needs to be happening on the floor.
As much influence as Kobe has, he is part of the group and has a coach who he is very close to. He also has a front office that has been a part of his life, in some capacity, since he joined the organization. For me, where are they now, when they need to b to reduce his minutes, talk to him about playing style and how he can best help the team, and to have an impact on these last seasons of his career? Where are they to have the difficult conversations with him the way that a “family” is supposed to? None of this is easy and with someone as headstrong and strong willed as Kobe, it will be even harder. But isn’t this why you hired this coach? And when, if not at the time when the player is not playing anywhere near the standard anyone (including him) would want, will a change in approach occur to have these conversations and try to move in a direction where more positive play can be produced?
Now is the time to stop enabling a player to fail and start putting him in better positions to succeed. This doesn’t have to be done callously or publicly. But it needs to happen. Not only for the player’s sake, but for the rest of the team’s, the coaches, the organization at large, and the fans. No one wants to see this continue like this.
As for tonight’s game, the Lakers play the Warriors. We’ve been through this enough times — this is what, the 100th time these two teams have played since the preseason? — to know what to expect. The Warriors are, currently, the class of the league. Even without Andrew Bogut anchoring the paint on both sides of the floor, the Warriors are a defensive powerhouse and an offensive juggernaut. It takes an extraordinary effort to beat them when you’re a good team. And we know, of course, that the Lakers are not that.
So rather than get into the X’s and O’s of it all, I prefer to shift the focus to hoping for a spirited game with both teams competing hard. I would love to see Kobe take a step back from trying to do as much as he’s been doing while seeing some of the other players raise up their games in an effort to show Kobe (and everyone else) that they are, in fact, capable. Add in some adjustments by the coaches and this group can start to have some small successes even if they do not lead to victories. And in a season like this one, that’s probably all you can hope for.
Where you can watch: 7:30pm start time on TWC Sportsnet. Also listen on ESPN Radio 710AM Los Angeles.
rr says
Good, realistic work by DS here. Here is a re-post of what I said about the Lowe stuff:
rr December 23, 2014 at 11:22 am
I don’t have a problem with Lowe ripping the Lakers and Kobe again, but I do have a problem with the fact that he does it without mentioning the names Buss, Kupchak, or Scott, and says that Kobe has “hijacked the entire organization.” One of the keys to the anti-Kobe stuff is to totally disempower everyone around him.
Calvin Chang says
The Lakers’ only chance to win tonight is to sit Kobe and give the Warriors the impression that they’re playing against a B team. This might cause Steph and Klay to get over-confident and play without a sense of urgency. Along with the holidays coming, the Warriors might just be distracted enough to play sloppy while the Laker B team play out of their minds. Only then can they hope to steal this game. If Kobe starts and its business as usual, expect a blowout.
Steve says
If we could only pick up Josh Smith now.
Imagine the rebounding numbers we’d get!
Best way to make sure we keep that first round pick.
tankyou says
Completely agree with DS’s post. I’m just hoping for a competitive game, if they can hang around and only lose by single digits I’ll be happy. I just don’t want to see another ugly game where we look like we are playing against the globetrotters.
Is Kobe even playing tonight?
Calvin Chang says
Many moons ago, whenever my team would play against a team we’re expected to blow out, we would take them lightly and showboat a little. I’d look past them and think about the next game, thinking that these guys are too awful for me to take seriously. I would be too proud to show that I have to bring my A game and execute properly to put the opponents away. Of course, I play passive and the opponents play out of their minds to score an upset. That’s what the Lakers have to bait the Warriors into. If Steph gets engaged and focused, it will be a blowout.
Robert says
Kobe Alert: Speaking of Kobe’s minutes, he recently broke into the top 10 and is rapidly pursuing Gary Peyton for 9th. We can’t reduce is minutes now can we? : ) KB also needs just 2 more games to catch Terry Porter for 21st and then next up will be our own AC Green. You know when you catch AC Green, you have played a lot of games. Kobes is now within 50 FGs of Shaq for 5th all time and within 5 three pointers of Steve Nash for 12th. Now for the Kobe critics: Only 21 more FGAs and Kobe will have 25,000 for his career (only 2 others have done this). I did some research, and 30 FGAs and 9 turnovers has only been done 7 times since Kobe entered the league. It has been done 3 times by A Iverson, and twice by KB. The 8 for 30 shooting percentage is the worst amongst all 7. Everyone needs to root hard for Kobe to bounce back in the next couple of games. I think he will.
Robert says
Nice write up Darius
Kobe needs to play today and on 12-25 He then can take 12-26 off
If he sits tonight, then too much will be made of it and it will put enormous pressure on Kobe to have a huge 12-25 game against the best defensive team in the league. No good.
Byron – please play him and then have him fly straight home after the Chicago game.
Mike says
I wonder how the other players feel hearing Byron Scott talk about Kobe not trusting them and hating to see them fail so he feels he needs to take over, when every one of them, to a man (besides Price, who is another Scott favorite) is shooting far better than Kobe, and Kobe himself has been failing at nearly unprecedented rates.
tankyou says
Mike, I’m sure nearly all of them are big time irritated, sounds like perhaps even uber positive swaggy. Although Swaggy might envy Kobe’s green light for shooting 30 shots if he wants.
I’m sure Jordan Hill hopes he gets traded. I’m sure Lin can’t wait till he’s gone. Ed Davis might be one of the few that isn’t too upset, but he seems like a team player type so I’m sure he gets frustrated. Nobody likes losing all the time, but how you lose matters to the players, and some fans. Most fans don’t care for Lin/Hill etc. b/c they just want big names. I think its delusional though that we get big names next year. I think players avoid the lakers like the plague, unless they are lower caliber guys getting overpaid, or vet minimum guys using the Lakers as a platform for a bigger contract. People don’t want to ride on the titantic just b/c its fancy and big when its clearly taking on water and the captains of the ship (FO/Scott) are inept or tanking.
Don says
I do not think I have ever seen a coach be so fawning to one player at the expense of the rest of the team before. It is quite alarming. Byron Scott, more than any of the others before him, needs to look in the mirror because if he does he will not be looking at a coach but rather a Kobe pet.
Calvin Chang says
Mike: All the other players understand and accept that this is Kobe’s bus and they’re just in for a ride. Deep inside, they probably do not enjoy hearing that, but they accept it and will follow Kobe’s lead. That’s just the way it is because of Kobe’s personality and his accomplishments. That’s why Dwight left.
Thomas Rickard says
The problem with numbers is that often they can be made to show anything you want! It’s not that there wrong, it’s that the don’t tell the whole story. There’s no question that Kobe is struggling, and lately it’s been hard to watch especially in the fourth quarter for the last couple of weeks, ever since the overtime win against Toronto Kobe’s legs have never seemed to recover, he starts games slowly, will finally find his shot and improve his shooting % until close to the end of the 3rd, and now in 4th, the quarter where he’s often lead the league in scoring and clutch shots he has nothing left, he gassed and while it’s hard for us to watch, just think how hard it is on him, hopefully with better time management he’ll get back some of his relevancy
Calvin Chang says
Tankyou: Agreed on your big names avoiding the titanic analogy. Unfortunately, unless Kobe pulls off a David Robinson and comes forward to hand the keys of the bus to player X, no big name star will want to join and play second fiddle. Publicly, they will all say the right things out of respect. But when it comes to boarding the ship, you’ll find that they’ll all avoid the titanic. And I get that. If I were an alpha star player, I won’t accept playing backup singer to a fading icon. I’d like my own band.
p453833 says
I don’t know a team intentionally “tanking” is allowed by the NBA or not, if it’s not allowed, then NBA should have a formal investigation in Lakers’ behaviors, Let a 36 YO played for so many minutes with so many bricks and the lowest FG% taking the game winning shots, if that’s not intentionally “tanking”, then what that is?
btoy says
Are the “COMMENTS” of the FANS or FANS to be are valuable to the entire Lakers Organization………” I DOUBT”…….I agree Kobe Bryant hijacked the entire Lakers Organization……Kobe is the Lakers…..Kobe is the Mitch…..Kobe is the Buss….. Kobe is the Byron Scott…….the Lakers Organization will spend millions of dollars just to please their “STAR PLAYER”…….????????$$$$$$$
Everclear says
1.) Sit Kobe after every third game. One of the biggest growth spurts in his entire career was when he injured his hand and was forced to sit next to Phil Jackson on the sidelines and see the game from a different angle. As a bonus, this keep his health in check and steadies his pace for next – and last – season.
2.) Limit him to 20 shots per game, no ifs ands or buts. As soon as he fires up shot #21, pull him for the rest of the game, no matter what. NO MATTER WHAT. If we lose by one point, then Kobe needs to consider that one of his missed shots could have been a make and we could have won. As a bonus, this would force him to consider each shot more carefully, and to share the ball when a tough shot is apparent, thereby infusing trust and chemistry among the team. The benefits of this limit would domino effect throughout the team.
3.) Ignore any pouting, ranting, public complaining or anything else that may come from him. Once the wins start coming more frequently, he’ll understand. And besides, we’re not making the playoffs anyway. Might as well start drilling in some good habits for next season.
teamn says
G*d f*cking d*mnit I am so sick of the endless debate over Kobe. Yes, the guy can drive me crazy at times and has since he first came to the Lakers. But the most maddening thing about this for me is that the FO put him in this position! Why set things up this way? It was obvious how it would play out!
Did anyone in their right mind think this was a playoff team? That Kobe would not run roughshod over everyone else? That Byron would not lean on what he sees as the best chance to win? In all honesty, I wonder how the FO could have been this clueless, to seemingly bring together all the elements to ultimately embarrass Kobe, Byron, and the organization. I can’t give Jim and Mitch enough credit to be Machiavellian enough to have planned this, though. I just chalk it up to one bad decision after the other, each designed to fix the last one. Problem is, there is no one fix.
Tanking is one thing with a completely crap roster, but not like this. It’s as if the last two seasons have been the exact wrong decisions for the desired outcome. So the Lakers get the absolute worst — mid-first round picks that may or may not pan out, maximum controversy, absolute complete debacle that guarantees no high level free agents look at this team as a desirable destination.
As I’ve aged, I’ve come to enjoy the process of watching a team develop and grow and become a champion. I’ve been lucky to have watched this happen with the Lakers many times in my life. But now, I find myself as angry as I was in the ’80s when the team lost. It’s horrible to see the destruction of a storied franchise and the undermining of one of its most legendary players. Yes, I fully recognize Kobe’s contribution to this and that he does not care what others think, but we all do care. Sometimes, the analytic discussion can no longer paper over the frustration and anger the fans feel as they watch this train wreck unfold.
Sorry for the rant. I hope I did not offend anyone or break any of Darius’ guidelines.
Simonoid says
Kobe is apparently not playing tonight.
rr says
Everclear December 23, 2014 at 4:41 pm
—
One of the most bizarre posts I have seen at this site.
rr says
Tanking is one thing with a completely crap roster, but not like this.
—
Yeah, this is a point I made on the other thread.
rr says
And yes, given Kobe’s and Byron’s personalities and track records, this was a scenario that seemed quite possible going in.
Ko says
Teamn well said. Hopefully the. Truth should never need to include an apology.
You are as right as one can be.
Thanks from a 50 year Laker fan.
Calvin Chang says
Let’s go Wayne E and Jordan Clarkson! Two things can happen. Either the Warriors get lulled into overconfidence and get thrown off-rhythm by Kobe’s absence, and Ellington-Clarkson play their hearts out and pull off an upset. Or Kerr manages to get through to the Warriors to have them avoid a letdown against an inferior opponent on paper, and it becomes a 30 point blowout by halftime. Hopefully, it’s door number 1. Kobe – light up the Bulls on Thursday.
Ko says
Whereas it probably won’t make a difference in the score, this could be the best thing that happens for Kobe, Scott and the team.
Reality that Kobe is just a mere mortal and age and wear does exist.
30 Point game for Swaggy and Lin should play his best game
Robert says
teamn: Excellent post, ” I just chalk it up to one bad decision after the other, each designed to fix the last one” So true.
Calvin Chang says
Hopefully Lin can control his turnovers and get his teammates involved. I like Lin better as a passer. Let’s go Swaggy P.
Chearn says
Fixes that fail, archetype!
Ko says
Why is Boozer and Swaggy not in with no Kibe?
Calvin Chang says
Nice work by Ronnie Price!
Tra says
Sweet Steph .. Real Sweet
Ko says
Well they are playing without fear and actually look like they are running a offense.
Interesting
Hope your watching Kobe.
Rob Westbrook says
They could totally beat the warriors without Kobe. They’re a better team when he’s not on the floor taking bad shots and playing horrible perimeter defense. I’m with Ko; I hope Kobe’s watching. But unfortunately I think it’s too late to teach an old dog new tricks. We would’ve seen more self awareness from Kobe by now… Maybe Byron can assert some control and really limit Kobe’s minutes; perhaps bring him off the bench and let him play against the 2nd unit. Kobe won’t like it, but if he wants to just retire early then that’s GREAT for our salary cap. Better than continuing to kill his career FG% for the next year and a half. Maybe he is capable of adapting; that’d be great to see. But I don’t see his D getting much better at this point. All they can do is limit his minutes and see if he buys into it. Hope we win tonight!! Team looks great so far. Fun to watch real basketball again.
Ko says
Do you believe in miracles ?
rr says
Ko-
I know you are the elemental old-school fan, reacting to whatever you just saw on the big screen TV, but I have a friendly reminder for you: last year’s opener vs. the Clippers.
Chearn says
Ed Davis is turning into a fun player to watch develop. My new favorite to cheer for. Go, Ed, go!
Ko says
Come on rr give me the Xmas moment?
Tim says
Nick Young half court to Wesley Johnson slam dunk. A great way to cap off an excellent half of basketball by the Lakers.
sT says
Darius, this is of of the best post I have seen from you, down to the heart.
Ko says
Yea it’s only 3/4 a game . But this team is nit that bad. Every player is close or equal to career numbers.
Except the guy 436th in plus minus and shooting 37% 127th.
Hope they win as a reward for the effort.
Tim says
Vlade Divac just won 90,000 dollars for the charity of his choice by draining a half court shot during the time out.
rr says
Kamenetzky Brothers @KamBrothers · 45m 45 minutes ago
The Lakers, without Kobe, lead 63-48 at the half over the 23-3 Warriors because God loves sports talk radio. BK
KenOak says
@ rr December 23, 2014 at 9:21 pm
That is a great tweet. Everything is always about Kobe.
Perry says
I expected doom and the usual frustrations of this team but I am giddy with joy at how for one night the Lakers are playing great basketball. What a wonderful Christmas gift and hopefully a win.
Ko says
Call a time out and get Clarkson out of there. Play to win Scott for once.
Ko says
Humm
My 1st post Lin and Swaggy would have big games.
Thank you. Great effort. Maybe they aren’t who we thought they are? (Dennis Green)
Tim says
Lakers give their fans and Kobe an early Christmas present, a WIN over the Golden State Warriors.
jerke says
Good for the guys, an aberration to be sure but nights like this will help them stay with it thru out the season. Impressive that they won every statistical battle in the box score. I don’t think this win should be any particular indictment of kobe (in fact it’s probably a loss anyways if price doesn’t go off his head and hit back to back to back 3’s in 3rd q) – I just wonder more what if any changes Scott may make in response to tonight’s outcome
hop says
Good win and good team win. I wish Kobe sits a couple more games so we can see what this kids really have.
a Good win against the best team in the NBA.
Don Ford says
Attended game. What a gas!
We were ahead early, sure, but that was just fizzy fun before the Warriors focused and clocked us, right?
The Warrior run came in the 3rd as expected, whittled lead to 10 and …. Lakers put a run back at the Ws?? Huh? But the script….
Hit 3s like crazy. Somehow kept Ws from scoring. Boozer rebounding, what gives?? Seemed like we got every 50-50 ball.
When Vlade flashed the fans a beautiful smile on the Staples-cam, and then just nailed that half court shot … a sweet perfect swishimg floater from afar … you knew something was funny tonight.
Lakers kicked their buts! Go figure!
Brought my son to the game and we were bummed at the Kobe news … and then … THIS GAME! Fun stuff.
Okay, now let’s rip off a run of protect-the-pick losses…..
Chris J says
“The league’s vaudeville freak show rolls on”
——
Take umbrage indeed… Another hypocritical, Boston-loving sportswriter. Lowe can take pot shots at the Lakers all day, but where were he and his criticisms back in 2007, when his favored Celtics were openly tanking for a better shot at Oden or Durant?
Let’s let this 2012 ESPN.com excerpt drive the nail in his BS coffin:
“In one notorious game late in the season, the Celtics, playing at home, led the woeful Bobcats 69-51 late in the third quarter — and managed to lose the game by eight points, enhancing their draft positioning. Of course, Celtics coach Doc Rivers denied tanking charges. As Steve Bulpett reported in the Boston Herald: “Rivers insisted there was nothing sinister about leaving Paul Pierce (game-high 23 points) on the bench for the fourth quarter and letting the quintet of Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Allan Ray and Leon Powe stay on the parquet as the lead — still at 10 with nine minutes left in the game — disappeared.”
In the final week of the season, the Celtics and Bucks, both maneuvering for the best possible draft position, played each other and gave DNPs to high scorers Paul Pierce, Al Jefferson, Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Redd and Mo Williams.
After the game, the Associated Press reported: Ryan Gomes had 13 through three quarters, but watched from the bench in the fourth as Boston clinched the worst record in the Eastern Conference and second worst in the league.
“I probably (would have played), but since we were in the hunt for a high draft pick, of course things are different,” Gomes said. “I understand that. Hopefully things get better. Now that we clinched at least having the second-most balls in the lottery, the last three games we’ll see what happens. We’ll see if we can go out and finish some games.”
Calvin Chang says
Holy cow – was that the Lakers or the Spurs? Incredible teamwork – players passing up good shots to get better shots. Good rotation on defense. Good team-rebounding. Warriors had no idea what hit them. Literally. No accurate scouting report on Price or Ellington. This team isn’t devoid of talent – it just needs to play the right way.
tankyou says
As I said in the previous post, this type of win is likely what FO/Scott/Kobe would be afraid of. You have true team play where they win by spreading the wealth. There have been plenty of times where the team has shown flashes of ball movement and guys taking the best shot. The problem when Kobe shoots 30 shots, its not just a sense of selfishness on his part, it breeds that type of behavior from other guys. Guys like to score at least a little bit, and if you only play limited minutes and 2 players often take 50% of the shots, it doesn’t leave much left–so guys start forcing it also just to try and get some pts on the board.
This team has offensive talent, its just very limited defensively. But if you get the ball moving and shoot higher percentage shots, you will have nights where the Lakers can out offense the other team. Mind you it was surprising to see them out offense the warriors, but its the NBA it can happen. It’s hard to try and focus in on 5plus guys, but pretty easy to just try and make it tough for Kobe. Spurs didn’t win the championship last year by having better individual talent then miami that’s for sure, but they did have a better team/ball movement.
rr says
This team has offensive talent,
—
Not really. Like I have said many times, the guys the Lakers have are known quantities. They will look good from time to time, but if they play a long period without Kobe, their limitations will show up. They hit 52% from the floor and 46% from 3. Those numbers are not sustainable. ISTM that in the past, the Lakers have often played well the first couple of games when KB has been out, then have come back to earth. Price and Ellington were on the NBA scrap heap for good reasons, and if they get major minutes, they will prove it (Price already has been proving it, actually). Clarkson has some talent, but he is just a rookie 2nd-rounder.
And the Spurs beat Miami because they go 10-deep, because they have one of the greatest coaches in NBA history, because Wade and Bosh are getting old, as we are seeing again this year, and because Miami’s role players were ancient.
That said, Kobe’s game in Sacto was one of the worst of his career, he is shooting 37%, so it is not all that surprising that the team looked better without him in this game, although it is surprising that they won. I think Byron should play him in Chicago, but this game will make easier to cut his minutes and will make it harder for him to shoot a lot, even if the team gets down early.
In any case, Scott and the team should be proud of winning this game.
rr says
Among other issues, this game raises the question of what constitutes “entertainment.” I get that Kobe is still a draw, and people still want to see him, but I actually think that a lot of Lakers fans would find a team of Swaggy and the Scrappy Doos having fun and dividing up the shots more “entertaining” than watching Kobe struggle and go 7/23 or whatever again. When people were (foolishly in my opinion) trying to justify Kobe’s deal, they used arguments related to “business” and “entertainment.” Obviously, Kobe still sells some tickets and Jeanie mentioned ratings in her most recent interview, but I have never bought into that argument, and the last couple of games illustrate why. This isn’t 2006, when he was one of the best players in the league, and losing is losing, with or without Kobe.
tankyou says
rr, completely agree with you. They had some entertaining games with Kobe this season (not many), but far more that were frustrating as Kobe went pure hero ball in the 4th, but he’s shooting 25% in the 4th quarter–so it was just guarantee losing ball instead.
The team played with energy, they play SO much faster. Last night was crazy fun, I have no hope Kobe tries to become part of the team flow. Partly, I don’t think Kobe physically can play modern NBA basketball at a fast pace beyond spurts of a few minutes at a time. So Kobe ball is now basically dribble dribble fadeaway brick. I for one still remember Kobe who could play fast, and would pivot and fly through the air baseline to dunk on people. That’s the Kobe I liked watching, this ymca old man version is not entertaining–plus bottom line it doesn’t lead to wins. Let’s see some fast paced team ball, I hope that Kobe plays far less minutes and truly wants to win, rather than just making that article true that he wants to win in HIS way, or screw it.
Reggie Hammond says
Kobe needs to come off the bench and shoot only multi screen elbow jumpers like ray Allen minus the 3…teams win 1 on 5 doesn’t tired of Kobes bs
Ko says
Wondering with all this dialog and the media what is Kobe’s frame of mind? He is a smart guy and must know the numbers and saw how much better the team has played with him on the bench or not playing.
How will he react? I hope it’s positive. My guess he will come out Thursday and take 15 shots to show he gets it. I hope it’s not the arrogant Kobe who wants to prove he is still the man.
Basketball is a team game, just ask the Spurs or for that matter yesterday’s Lakers. Chicago will be the true tell. Let’s hope for us team Laker fans.
LKK says
Impressive team win for the Lakers. The offense seemed to be more free wheeling without #24, at least for one night. The ball didn’t stick. IMO, KB falls in love with setting up in the pinch post far too much. He goes back to his roots in the triangle offense and tries to recreate a scenario where he’s had great success in the past. The problem I see is that he has to battle for position in the post and that takes a physical toll. It also puts him in a position where the opposing teams can more readily double team him.
Managing the final years of a legendary player is a very difficult proposition by any measure. A player of Kobe’s magnitude presents an organization with very difficult choices as it straddles the past and the future. I believe he’ll find much more individual and team success by playing off the ball more at this stage of his career and by ceding some control to his point guards and by not trying to overpower opponents from the post.
I, too, agree that the FO & coach are enabling the Mamba and need to better manage his minutes and the way he’s used. I am never going to bash one of the greatest players of all time but I will say that I believe he can be a helluva lot more effective by adjusting and tweaking the way he goes about his business. Kobe has to realize that when you can’t physically outdo your opposition, it is time to outthink them and modify the way you play the game.
Baylor Fan says
Is there a chance that Mitch is pretty good at evaluating NBA talent? No Kobe meant more hustle in the transition game where the Lakers usually get killed. Yes, the players have some serious flaws, but if they are willing to run and share the minutes, they will be able to force opposing teams to work for their wins. There may be more keepers on this squad than expected.
BigCitySid says
-Needless to say, I agree w/ this post completely Darius. Hit the nail on the head. Here’s hoping you don’t receive too much coal in your stocking for an honest assessment.
-“It was a good team win. We just had a lot of energy, and it was a lot of fun from the start,” Nick Young said. “From the locker room to the court, we felt good. Some guys just played free tonight and did their thing. They had no handcuffs on them.”
-I’m not going to overreact to one game, but I do find it amazing how some find the truth so hard to accept.
Craig W. says
If there was ever a 1-man basketball team it was Wilt Chamberlain. That said, Wilt definitively proved basketball is a team game. Kobe is simply the latest in a long line of players that prove this rule – that includes the great Michael Jordan.
Dave says
Well, its only one game and one could attribute it to the Warriors being a bit overconfident since Kobe wasn’t going to pay — however, that was a very nice win. The team played with energy and if you look at the box score there was a beautiful distribution of scoring. To rr’s point – the Lakers were entertaining and fun.
Do I think this level of play is sustainable? Probably not. But it does make you wonder what if the FO trusted their basketball acumen and pushed back at TWC and the segment of season ticket holders that said to resign Kobe at all costs. What if the FO said to Kobe – we want you to be a Laker for life but we also think it best to field a competitive team. Kobe, you will be happier and our fans will be happier. If you resign for less we’ll get you players. I do think that scenario would have worked out in everyone’s favor. Kobe knows he can’t do it alone – he said that to management when he was in his prime and its certainly no different now.
Unfortunately, no one can undo the past. So where do we go from here. Clearly, with Kobe on the floor the Lakers play tentative and defer to him far too much. Let’s hope that Kobe was truly watching the game last night and accepts the fact that the Lakers play far better as a team.
J C says
Craig W – right on the mark.
If Wilt couldn’t win by himself, no one can.
Last night was evidence that it’s not only the shots Kobe takes that can slow the team down, but also how others play alongside him. Everyone defers to him so much they become essentially neutered.
Incredibly, the team’s transformation was instantaneous once Kobe left the building. I found the team’s energy quite like that of a team whose coach is fired. The first game following the firing often looks like last night.
NBA.com quoted Swaggy as saying, ‘Everyone just played free out there.’
My friend texted me this:
“Unimaginable – the group was playing over their heads cause they were happy and motivated & unshackled – speaks volumes about the sociopath.”
The question becomes, can Kobe become a better teammate – a different sort of person – at this stage of his career?
Robert says
Game: Excellent win. We just beat the team with the best record in the league.
Don Ford: Happy for u. The Kobe absence must have been a let down, but then you got a good game.
Ko/tank/others: We have been down this path before. rr brought up last year’s opener, and let’s not forget the Rockets game last year where everyone got giddy. Then Kobe came back and we had all the same discussions (again).
Craig W: Nice example with Wilt as he is one of the few who “truly” changed his game from being the league’s leading scorer to a third option on the Laker’s 72 title team. MJ never changed.
Extension: If some of you get your wish, and Kobe fades off completely or goes down to 20 minutes a game and a #2 option, then the extension will surely be known as one of the worst contracts in history. And can we please stop saying that Kobe can give back the money or him retiring helps us on the cap? It does not except in some very small ways under special circumstances.
Byron Bashers: A quandary is upon you. If the Lakers go to the reduced Kobe mode and start winning, then Byron will surely be labeled as genius, perhaps even “fun”, and then he will stick around for a couple more years. A quandary indeed.
George says
Let’s not get carried away with yesterday’s win. Dave said to look at the box score and see how well the scoring load was shared among the team. Well, I for one do not think that is ever likely to happen again. Johnson, Price and Ellington had their best nights of the year. Boozer had 18 and 9! It was a fluke win. The Warriors play an up and down style and the Lakers shot extremely well – especially from behind the line.
This changes nothing, but will give false hope to the FO that with the right breaks the team has enough talent to make the playoffs. The Lakers are still a mess with no one on the current roster that can be considered a building block for the post Kobe era. Young, Hill and Lin have value to contenders.
Archon says
Forget even the eye test of what people saw last night the stats are pretty conclusive that the Lakers are simply a better team without Kobe on the court. Having said that I do think there is a version of Kobe lurking that could still be very impactful on the game, just not the version we’ve seen the past couple months.
I don’t even think Kobe has to shoot less (although a few of his contested shots should be passes) he just needs to trust his teammates to pass it to him in the right spots within an offensive set. He needs to be more of a catch and shoot guy instead of a dribble iso guy.
Him burning less energy on offense should hopefully give him more energy on defense because right now his constant defensive breakdowns are killing any kind of defensive coherence.
Oldtimer says
I agree with Craig W., it is always nice to watch a team game. For one fleeting evening, our Lakers proved that they can beat anybody on a given day. It also proves that “every dog has its day”
I guess the next argument, who needs Kobe, shall we trade our relic?
Tankyou says
Robert, Coach Scott is NOT going to play Kobe 20mins a game unless Kobe is hurt, I’m pretty confident of that. Kobe will either sit out a game, or play 30mins+ if he is even somewhat physically well. Unless, Kobe himself actually asks to play 20mins thinking he can be more effective and the team will win more games (highly doubt that happening).
I don’t even talk about the Kobe extension, its a done deal. I never talk about that, but just focus on the team we have now and the Kobe we have left to watch play. I still want to see Kobe play, although I do want to see him have major time reductions. 2-3 less minutes a game per Byron Scott’s recent comment is a joke and wont’ help anything. I would rather the team become a TEAM and they take better shots and IF someone is playing really well–then they get more shots. Go with the flow of the game, IF Kobe is playing great and shooting really well let him be the #1 option that night, if its Swaggy, Lin, Jordan Hill, Boozer whatever, heck even Ronnie Price was lighting it up last night. If we can have a couple different guys playing well and they get to shoot more than great! Teams like the Spurs don’t endlessly give it to Duncan or Parker if they are having an off night, the ball tends to go more to whoever is lighting it up. This pecking order stuff doesn’t need to be defined so concretely, we have a handful of guys who can score well. Even Ed Davis when paired with Lin is doing well. And Wes Johnson is good when running the floor. I don’t want to see anyone forcing shots, be it Kobe or one of our other players–it kills the flow of the game and the energy let down carries over to the defensive end as well.
rr says
I have a post in mod (which I certainly get–DS has other stuff going on like the rest of us) which basically tells folks to cool their jets. GS was on a b2b, and they play the Clippers–whom they and their fans can’t stand and whom they now see as their SoCal rival–tomorrow. Families made the trip, so it was in all respects, a classic trap game. The Lakers came out and took it, but reading too much into it is unwise.
That said, Kobe shouldn’t be playing 36 minutes or shooting 30 times anymore, and the GS game just underscores that.
VI Guy says
Yeah, I agree that this was a fun win. But if the game was 2 minutes longer we would have lost. The Warriors were coming back, organized, and we were on our heels. Honestly, I think the last 5 minutes of this game is more representative of this team than the first three quarters. The Lakers were pumped (“unchained…”), at home, their shots were dropping, and the Warriors were complacent.
I’d very much like to see Kobe be able to play a controlled 20 minutes or so a night and be able to make an impact commensurate with his legacy. Folks that think we’ve some how turned a corner and that the Warriors’ game shows that we’re better w/out Kobe, well I hope they’re right–though that’s doubtful.
I guess what’s lost in this discussion is that the only reason folks on this site have been dumping such vitriol on Kobe and Byron is exactly the decade of triumph Kobe brought us. If we hadn’t had Kobe we would’ve been a competitive team, maybe won one or, unlikely, two championships, but hardly have been a dynasty. Because Kobe brought this level of success to the Lakers, the same fans who loved him when he was triumphant now feel justified in writing nasty things about him.
I can understand “what have you done for me lately” arguments–this is a business, but not the vindictive nature of many of the posts.
rr says
“Unimaginable – the group was playing over their heads cause they were happy and motivated & unshackled – speaks volumes about the sociopath.”
—
DS makes the rules, but that kind of stuff belongs on ESPN comment boards, not here. Quoting this puts you in HA territory. One more time: 5 titles, 7 finals trips, 16 playoff appearances, two Gold Medals, 3rd-leading scorer of all time. What is going on now doesn’t change any of that.
rr says
George is mostly right. Also, studies have shown that role players tend to play better at home–energy of the crowd, etc. Finally, last night was an unusual set of circumstances in several ways. I expect that Chicago will be a reality check.
Lin and Hill should probably be dealt, and I expect that they will be. I don’t think Young is going anywhere, though. He has a four-year deal, and he, not Kobe, is actually the “fun” element of the current team. I am sure that Young wishes the team were better, like all Lakers fans do, but I think he is about the only person in LakerLand who is kind of happy with things right now. Got a nice deal, playing in his hometown for his childhood team, dating a famous woman who just bought him a car. Life’s mostly good if you are Swaggy P.
rr says
but I do find it amazing how some find the truth so hard to accept.
What truth do you think that people are not accepting? Basically everyone on the board has said that Kobe should shoot less, play less, play more off the ball, expend more energy on D, and shoot fewer 3s.
I think the guy who has a hard time with truth is you, actually. The truth is that Kobe’s personality has never been nearly as big of a deal, in basketball terms, as people in your camp have always made it out to be. Own it, face it, acknowledge it. The facts are in, and they are clear. NBA games are mostly won and lost on talent, and to some extent, talent utilization and coaching. NBA rosters are built by FOs. When the Lakers have had talent around him, they have won. When they haven’t, they haven’t. What is going on now–and this is what DS actually said–is based on a combination of organizational issues, of which Kobe’s personality is just one piece.
rubenowski says
Great win. But why does Scott let Kobe not come to the game? I don’t think that’s good. Kobe should’ve been there cheering his team on.
karen says
Kobe says today he is disappointed lakers didn’t deal for rondo. If that is true than kolbe is in continued denial and really doesn’t get it. Lasts nights game was so much fun to watch. Has kobe noticed mavs aren’t winning with rondo
BigCitySid says
Question: “does Kobe make his teammates better?”
Craig W. says
Once more – with feeling – This Is A Team Game!
…with all that implies about Kobe and with Kobe. Kobe may be the lightning rod, but he isn’t the entire team.
I don’t expect a win Thursday, but I do hope for a competitive 3qtrs. After all, it is a road game and the Bulls won’t be tired.
J C says
“DS makes the rules, but that kind of stuff belongs on ESPN comment boards, not here. Quoting this puts you in HA territory. One more time: 5 titles, 7 finals trips, 16 playoff appearances, two Gold Medals, 3rd-leading scorer of all time. What is going on now doesn’t change any of that.”
___
Darius has a great site going here.
I appreciate the opportunity to share my views and I enjoy seeing others’.
Maybe my posts aren’t the sign of genius, but many here aren’t.
Swaggy P said Lakers played like ‘Django Unchained.’
Now there’s a controversial reference if I ever heard one.
That was printed on Yahoo Sports.
I don’t know what HA territory is, but if I made you laugh, like, HAHA, that’s ok with me,
I put my friend’s comments in quotes for a reason.
The words are a bit stronger than I’d use, but the point is they sort of represent a faction of serious Laker fans. My friend is an articulate, long-time season-ticket holder and a lifelong diehard fan of the team since long before the days of Magic.
And, ‘One more time.’ a certain amount of deference should be paid, and is being paid to Kobe for his awesome career accomplishments. I’ve often cited from my own perspective how magnificent an athlete and basketball player he is.
However, to point to previous accomplishments as justification for current, repeated mistakes is silly. I previously pointed out that Kareem’s records don’t mean he should be suiting up today. They’re history now.
Being a previous gold medalist or champion doesn’t excuse a lack of consideration for others or a blindness to the concept of teamwork.
J C says
Big City –
I think we all know the answer to that one,
Robert says
rr: What is most entertaining, is that you and I have been 2 of the most vocal posters “against” the extension. Now we find ourselves defending Kobe. Interesting, but not half as interesting as the fact that this means that there are people who were OK with or favored the extension, but now all of a sudden want to kick Kobe to the curb with a $48 million going away present : ) Others who want to make him a $24 million per year tertiary option. If I felt that way about Kobe, I can’t imagine what my view of the FO would be, but it would be worse than it is now – if that is possible : )
Karen: “Kobe…..really doesn’t get it” He is not the only one. I sure don’t get it. If anyone else does get it, let me know what it is : )
BCS: Do you realize that Kobe has been Kobe for 19 years? He has never changed. The FO gave him $48 million during his 18th year while he was injured and his return condition was unknown. He could have been physically a fraction of what he is, which is a testament to KB’s work ethic. Why is your beef so consistently with Kobes? If Jim signed the current day Elgin Baylor to a max deal, would everyone start beating on Elgin, because he had lost a step or two? : )
tankyou says
Karen, Yeah I saw that Kobe comment as well about “wishing they had gotten Rondo.” Honestly, it really makes me question his basketball IQ if he wanted to Rondo on the Lakers. Was Rondo Kobe’s quieter alpha b-ball buddy or something that he would just roll over for and let Rondo control the ball? I can see why the other players keep talking about “trusting them”. Kobe basically thinks they are all trash, which is crazy disrepectful. Its especially delusional IF Kobe thinks he is the same player he was a few years ago. That ship has left. Kobe and Rondo wouldn’t have one a single game more than the crew he has now, perhaps less even–b/c they would have had to give up someone decent to actually get Rondo.
I swear too many fans live in the past and still see some of these players through the prizm of Xmas/championships past. Rondo is not a good shooter, and certainly not a floor spacer. The team did well last night in part b/c they had Ellington and Swaggy and Price/Lin all hitting 3’s and spreading the floor. Kobe isn’t a floor spacer at all, and typically Ronnie Price isn’t either. So the 1st unit has Wes Johnson and that’s it, Hill’s set shot looks a lot better than Kobe’s 20 footers at this point. This focus on “need a real PG” is just garbage as long as Kobe is running the show. IF Lin and Price can’t even make the top 40th in PG usage when they start a game with Kobe, then clearly they aren’t getting a chance to do much with the ball. I give Lin/Price both credit for getting so many assists and making some nice plays often times when they are only getting 20minutes of playing time. Lin is still leading (tied w/ Kobe) the team in assists despite playing closer to 20mins now. It was nice to see a lot of passing and movement, hope Kobe thinks that the spurs method is a better way to go since he is stuck playing with “toilet paper” or “trash”. I’m sure the feeling has becoming mutual as the losses pile up and Kobe gets to shoot them out of a bunch of potential wins.
Chearn says
Robert, and rr-Excellent posts, as usual.
Anonymous says
faction of serious Laker fans.
—
Nope. Calling Kobe a sociopath is just venting and blowing off steam based on personal emotional needs, as are most of your posts on the subject. And you missed my point: arguments about how Kobe’s personality is killing the team need to be contextualized by looking at his career arc, which demonstrates very clearly that his personality has not, in fact, killed the team. And it is not killing the team now, either. It is one of many things going on, and Kobe is one of many people with some hand in the Lakers’ current mess. Kobe doesn’t coach, own, or general manage the Lakers.
Ask yourself a basic question: how many of your and Sid’s recent posts have been about something other than Kobe, and have done something other than complain about him about his behavior, shot selection etc? That tells you what you need to know. And HA is a set of initials.
Anonymous says
faction of serious Laker fans.
—
Naw. That guy you quoted–and you, and Sid–are just blowing off some steam. Kobe’s personality is only one of many issues right now. Anyone seriously looking at the team grasps this. Kobe is not the coach, the GM, or the VP of Basketball Ops.
Ask yourself a basic question: how many of your posts lately have had a purpose other than bagging on Kobe?
Dan the Man says
Real +/- for Lakers from ESPN
Ed Davis 0.48
Robert Sacre 0.30
Wayne Ellington -0.22
Nick Young -0.25
Jeremy Lin -0.66
Ronnie Price -1.22
Carlos Boozer -2.01
Wesley Johnson -2.05
Kobe Bryant -2.06
Jordan Hill -2.29
The real +/- tell us the best starting lineup for the Lakers is Davis, Sacre, Ellington, Young and Lin. It’s striking how bad the +/- is for the starting lineup. The bottom 5 in +/- are all in the starting line up except for Boozer while the top 5 in +/- are all on the bench except for Davis.
Craig W. says
Stats don’t prove a point, they support one. There are stats for pretty much every argument, so we need to see what point you are trying to make, that you need quoted stats for.
If you could tell everything about a players and a game from stats, there wouldn’t be any need for coaches or general managers. Everything needs to be filtered through your eyes. Most of us have the problem of things being filtered through our hearts – and that includes me.
P.S. Plus/minus doesn’t take into account who the opponent has on the floor at any point in time, so you again need your eyes here.
Dan the Man says
“Plus/minus doesn’t take into account who the opponent has on the floor at any point in time, so you again need your eyes here.”
Here is a description of real +/- from ESPN: “the metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate and opposing player”
JH says
No one is giving credit to Coach BS for sitting Kobe