The Lakers won a slugfest of a game in thrilling fashion against the Pacers last night, with Kobe Bryant leading them down the stretch. Kobe scored the Lakers final 9 points of the game, including the game winner with only a handful of ticks on the clock — a classic drive and half hook from the dotted line that he’s made more than a few times over his career.
http://youtu.be/XSvWajwJlRs
That shot capped another efficient night from #24, giving him his 20th point on 7-14 shooting (including 2 of 3 from behind the arc) to go along with six rebounds and six assists. Kobe, as he has since returning from his three game absence, mostly took what the defense gave him and hurt the Pacers with smart shot-pass decisions all night. His passes were so good most the night, in fact, that after the game he even commented how the Pacers started to play him for the pass and that opened up some of his buckets (including the game winner) as the defense stayed home with their own men, opening up the lane in the process.
The night wasn’t just filled with victory, however. Starting small forward Wes Johnson was hurt in the first half, straining his hip flexor. He did not return in the 2nd half and has been ruled out indefinitely. With Johnson out, the Lakers are likely to turn to Ryan Kelly to play some small forward while also giving more minutes to Wayne Ellington, Nick Young, and, potentially, Jordan Clarkson with Kobe playing a bit more “SF” in the process. And while more of those guys isn’t necessarily the worst thing, missing Wes will test the Lakers depth — especially on nights where Kobe doesn’t play due to his newly modified game schedule where coach Scott decides to rest him more.
Which brings us to tonight. After playing last night with travel planned for after the game, it was predetermined that Kobe would not play against the Blazers this evening. That leaves the Lakers down both their starting wings and shallow at that spot in general. If I were to guess, I’d expect Ellington and Kelly to start for Kobe and Wes with an uptick in minutes for Lin and Young to compensate. I’d also expect to see Clarkson play about 10 minutes at SG as filler on the wing.
This would be an issue on any night but playing against one of the better teams in the conference makes it that much more difficult. In case you weren’t monitoring the standings closely, the Blazers possess the 2nd best record in the league, trailing only the Warriors. They are have an incredibly balanced and productive roster and have not missed a beat since losing Robin Lopez to injury last month. Powered by Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge their offense can get good shots all over the floor. And in the event that those two struggle, they can turn to Nic Batum’s all-court game or Wes Matthews’ three point and post-up oriented game to get buckets too.
In other words, don’t expect much from the Lakers’ tonight. While they’ve shown a nice ability to compete hard on most nights, traveling to Portland and playing this team on the 2nd night of a back to back without Kobe (especially the version who has shown up lately) and diminished wing depth is a nearly impossible hill to climb. I do expect them to battle, but do not be surprised to see a double digit loss by night’s end. Portland is just that good.
Where you can watch: 7:00pm start time on TWC Sportsnet. Also listen on ESPN Radio 710AM Los Angeles.
Archon says
Interested how the Lakers look without Wes for the next couple weeks, I think Johnson is a negligible contributor on both ends and he absence is basically addition by subtraction.
Calvin Chang says
Agreed with Archon.
david h says
rest in peace, alina clare kupchak; daughter of lakers general manager, mitch kupchak. she was 15 yrs old.
rr says
Yes, this is terrible:
Los Angeles Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak’s 15-year-old daughter, Alina, died Monday morning after a lengthy illness, the team announced.
In a statement released on behalf of Kupchak and his wife, Claire, the team stated, “The family asks for and appreciates their privacy at this difficult time, and would like to express their gratitude for everyone’s love, support, thoughts and prayers.”
Kupchak is in his 28th season as an executive with the Lakers and his 15th in his current role after taking over for Jerry West in 2000. Kupchak joined the Lakers’ front office in 1986 following a 10-year NBA career.
Chearn says
I’m saddened for the Kupchak’s! My prayers are with the family during this most painful period in their lives. Now you can rest, young lady, after a prolonged illness.
LKK says
Wow…had no idea the Kupchaks were living with such a heavy burden. My heart goes out to them.
T Rogers says
Some things are bigger than sports. I applaud Mitch Kupchak for pushing through with his Lakers duties while he clearly had more important things on his mind. I wish his family the best.
Leo says
As a parent, I can not think of anything more painful than losing a child. My heart aches for the Kupchak family. News like this certainly puts things in perspective.
Ko says
Why not Boozer instead of Kelly?
Ko says
Kelly is just taking up space. Perhaps we can see Black or why is he here?
VI Guy says
“Why not Boozer instead of Kelly?”
I’m guessing Kelly doesn’t move like a T Rex in cement a la Boozer, though Booze has been the man in the second unit…
Man, if Tarik can’t get playing time tonight, he must be a work in progress…
Ko says
Why not Boozer?
Because Kelly is 1 for 11 this Year with more TO then points.
Chris J says
Prayers for the Kupchak family. How terrible.
Ko says
What the Hill is going on?
Jaya says
Is it me or does the team play better ball when Kobe sits out?
Ko says
Scott is just terrible in calling time outs to stop mo!
Jerke says
Here’s a breakdown of the three-team trade between the Oklahoma City Thunder, New York Knicks and Cleveland Cavaliers.
Cavaliers get: Guards Iman Shumpert and J.R. Smith (from Knicks), protected 2015 first-round pick (from Thunder)
Knicks get: Forward Lou Amundson, center Alex Kirk and a 2019 second-round pick (from Cavaliers), forward Lance Thomas (from Thunder)
Thunder get: Guard Dion Waiters (from Cavaliers)
Cleveland Cavaliers: A-
The groundwork of a Waiters-Shumpert deal has existed basically since LeBron James announced he was coming home, and it’s always made sense. With James, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love, the Cavaliers didn’t need Waiters’ best skill (volume shooting). And while believers pointed to Waiters’ spot-up shooting and potential to develop into a physical defender, accepting a smaller role has never been his mindset. The first two months of this season proved the fit was as bad as we all suspected.
Shumpert might not be a better player in a vacuum, but he’s certainly a better choice as James’ sidekick on the wing. While Shumpert isn’t an All-Defensive caliber stopper, he is a solid wing defender who can handle opponents at all three perimeter spots, and he’s good at generating steals. ESPN’s real plus-minus rated him as the NBA’s fifth-best shooting guard on defense through last season. Unfortunately, Shumpert has never become a good enough 3-point shooter to truly qualify as a 3-and-D specialist, but his 34.3 percent career shooting from deep is good enough to keep defenses honest. He’s better beyond the arc, for example, than the similar Corey Brewer (29.6 percent).
So Waiters for Shumpert is a strong deal for the Cavaliers. Adding Smith, too? That makes this move a bit trickier. After all, Smith’s shortcomings — poor shot selection, unreliability off the court — are much of what made Waiters so frustrating in Cleveland. And if Smith opts into the final season of his contract at $6.4 million in 2015-16, it will significantly hamper the Cavaliers’ ability to stay below the tax line and maintain maximum flexibility to add to the roster.
At the same time, there’s a big difference between Smith and Waiters: Smith’s actually been good in the NBA. Waiters has posted a true shooting percentage (TS%) better than 50 percent only once in his three seasons in the NBA (.508 in 2013-14), and was still below average then. Before this season, Waiters’ most efficient season would have been the second-lowest TS% of Smith’s career. Especially in Denver, Smith hasn’t been nearly as shot-happy or as inefficient as his reputation would suggest. Even this season, Smith’s usage rate with the Knicks (23.5 percent) is lower than Waiters’ with three All-Stars (24.1 percent).
There’s a lot of downside with Smith, but there’s upside, too. On a Cleveland team desperate for wing contributors with James sidelined, Smith can be helpful. Getting a first-round pick (a possible trade chip) as incentive to take on Smith’s contract makes the choice that much easier.
At first, it looked like Cleveland would get Samuel Dalembert in this deal, but I don’t think it was workable with his salary included. Now, the Cavaliers have to be hoping that Dalembert clears waivers and becomes a free agent. Cleveland would be the most logical landing spot for Dalembert, who would be a huge upgrade on the Cavaliers’ current frontcourt backups. As I wrote in this morning’s Insider Daily, Cleveland has been far worse with a reserve big on the floor since Anderson Varejao was lost for the season with a ruptured Achilles.
New York Knicks: A
No, the Knicks didn’t steal Reggie Jackson, as was prematurely reported as news of this deal trickled out via Twitter. It’s still an excellent deal for New York from a financial perspective. Assuming the Knicks waive Dalembert, as well as the nonguaranteed players acquired in this trade, New York saves more than $20 million by my calculations. The Knicks not only shave almost $4.5 million off their payroll the remainder of the season, they also cut their tax bill from more than $22 million to just $6.4 million. In fact, it’s realistic now that New York could get all the way under the tax line with more money-saving moves before the trade deadline, which might matter in terms of the repeater tax down the line.
More importantly, the Knicks no longer have to sweat out the possibility that Smith picks up his option for 2015-16. Salary-cap space is a precious commodity in New York, which projects to have somewhere in the neighborhood of $27 million available next summer, depending where the cap falls. As unreliable as free agency might be, it’s the Knicks’ clearest path back to contention.
The cost to New York is whatever the team might have been able to get for Shumpert before the trade deadline. The Knicks turned down Oklahoma City’s first-round pick (ultimately 29th overall, used on Josh Huestis) at last year’s deadline. Shumpert’s value probably wasn’t quite that high this season, since he’s now a rental in the final year of his contract, and New York might have had to settle for a second-rounder or two. That wouldn’t outweigh the financial gains from this deal.
Oklahoma City Thunder: D
This trade looks like the start of a two-step process for the Thunder, and it’s hard to evaluate before we know what Part 2 will be. First off, Waiters seems to create a crowd on the wing in Oklahoma City. It’s tough to see Waiters ousting the two specialists playing most of the Thunder’s shooting guard minutes (defensive stopper Andre Roberson and sharpshooter Anthony Morrow), which would leave him battling fellow youngsters Jeremy Lamb and Perry Jones for spot minutes as the fourth wing.
Second, as noted by ESPN’s Royce Young, this trade puts Oklahoma City slightly over the luxury tax. The Thunder have never paid the tax, and it seems unlikely they would do so when they can easily get under. Dealing either Jones or Lamb to a team with a trade exception would do the trick, and that’s the most likely follow-up. The more extreme possibility is that Oklahoma City really is planning to trade Jackson, a restricted free agent this summer, and sees Waiters as a replacement for the minutes Jackson plays alongside Russell Westbrook.
Ultimately, I think this deal is probably about Sam Presti value shopping for a player drafted No. 4 overall. The first-round pick the Thunder sent to Cleveland is top-18 protected according to ESPN’s Brian Windhorst, so the worst-case scenario is Oklahoma City gives up the 19th or 20th pick as a low seed in this year’s playoffs. It’s also possible the pick rolls over to 2016, in which case it will probably fall in the late 20s.
The problem is I’m not sure Waiters is worth even a low first-rounder. Three seasons into his career, he’s never rated better than right around replacement level. Waiters fits slightly better with the Thunder than the Cavaliers because of Scott Brooks’ tendency to rest both Westbrook and Kevin Durant at the same time, leaving Reggie Jackson as the primary creator on the floor, but the same issues exist if Oklahoma City tries to play Waiters with the starters. So the Thunder might not be more satisfied with Waiters than Cleveland was.
dxmanners says
Tarik Black gets minutes in Houston but not here? Why did they pick him up again?
Ko says
Young shooting 25% last 3 games. Ouch
Ko says
Wasen’t’t it Lin how told Kobe he likes those clutch last shots?
No thanks
Chris J says
Tough loss, but damn, Lilliard is great. He and Curry are cut from the same cloth.
Oldtimer says
Almost won if Price did not sustain that bloody injury. Lilliard was unstoppable just like Young Kobe. I am not used to Lakers being flushed out in the end, it really exposes their vulnerabilities as a rag tag roster but give them credit for trying harder.
Calvin Chang says
Entertaining game. Much closer than expected. I don’t understand why Byron doesn’t switch to a zone defense late in the 4th quarter when Dame was going in video-game mode. Portland’s late-game MO is to run the 2-man high pick and roll game between Lillard and Aldridge. They do this to close out games. If you know what’s coming, why not change it up? I would have gone zone a few times – just to throw the Blazers off-rhythm and surprise them. Or have Ed double-team Lillard and force Myers Leonard to beat them. I’d rather let Leonard try to beat me than Lillard or Aldridge.
tankyou says
@Ko, man can you chill out with the negativity, its like a pessimists play-by-play. We played Portland close and nearly won on their homecourt! We did this with 3 STARTERS GONE in the 4th quarter. Lin was stuck playing the entire 4th quarter b/c of Price’s injury. Sure Swaggy was off again, but he’s basically a streak shooter, he’s either amazing or shooting less than 40%.
What team missing 3 of their starters, including their key player could hang with the 2nd best team in the league? Not many. Nearly winning tonight being this shorthanded on the road is a ‘moral vicotry’ in my book. Did someone actually expect us to beat the Blazers tonight?!
Lin was playing really well and kept them in the game at the end, despite the 3point miss at the end. Jordan Hill woke up and finally started looking decent again. This Lakers team despite massive injury issues all season long has become a gritty tough team to beat. We aren’t the team getting blown out by 30 anymore that’s for sure. Kobe is adapting and resting.
For me as a fan I’m just hoping the team to maximize its success with the players it has at the moment. Spending all your time wishing for other players, or having all-stars at every position is just craziness. Give these guys some respect, these “2nd string players” or worse since a bunch of folks basically call our players names and give them no respect–have shown the ability to hang or beat the best teams in the League. It’s not like we lost by a few to the Knicks last night, then I could understand feeling blah about it.
Joe Houston says
I am still waiting for the “Lakers are better without Kobe” crowd to come out from hiding. Jeremy Lin likes taking game winning shots too and he took and airballed one. That game last night was close only because Portland was ice cold and we could have taken advantage of that if we had a capable defender to put on Dame.
@Calvin, you really want to switch to Zone defense against one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the NBA?
BTW, Byron coached a hell of a game last night.
George says
Thoughts and prayers to the Kupchak family. I can not imagine the pain of losing a child.
___
With last night’s trade, the Knicks are now officially in tank mode. It will be curious to see what the Lakers do as we approach the trade deadline.
I’m of the opinion that it makes no sense for the Lakers to have a 25 win team and lose our top 5 pick in the process. I’d trade Hill, Young and Lin for future assets. Its a similar strategy to what NY just did. JR and Shumpert would likely help the Knicks win 10 games this year. Why not trade them and sit Carmelo to ensure you have a shot at Okafor in the draft and free up additional cap space in the process.
If you ask me, I think Okafor would look better in a Lakers’ uniform.
J C says
Lillard is virtually unguardable in the clutch.
Running a ‘box and 1′ D may have helped.
He is the man with the game on the line in Portland, not Aldridge.
Lakers played a nice game and might have won it had Nick or Lin connected just once or twice in the fourth quarter.
Competitive and entertaining game.
I wonder if other teams subconsciously relax when the Lakers are in town, or if we really are a decent, competitive team.
Few blowouts this year compared to last.
No way Dantoni could keep so many games close like this.
I confess department: it would have been nice to have a rested Kobe in that fourth quarter last night.
No one on the club steps up when Swaggy’s shots aren’t falling.
Maybe he wanted to start in Wes’ absence and I don’t blame him.
Calvin Chang says
@Joe: Absolutely I would have thrown in some zones. When you have Lillard nailing contested turnaround 3’s and scoring over single and double coverage again and again and again late in the 4th, wouldn’t it have been a good idea to try something different? When players like LA and Dame get in a rhythm, change things up. Let give Myers Leonard some open looks and see if he can step up. You mentioned that Byron coached a hell of a game last night, but you also said the game was only close because Portland was ice cold. Which one is it? Good coaching? Or poor Blazers shooting?
Calvin Chang says
@JC – Agreed that it would have been nice to have Kobe last night as the closer. Nobody is better at creating his own space and elevating for a jumper on the move when the game is on the line. Bad decision by Lin to shoot that 3. I don’t know if he makes that in practices or just forced it up out of a drawn play. But his mechanics aren’t that sound for a step-back 3 off the dribble. Would rather have looked for Nick or Ellington.
Calvin Chang says
@Joe – when Lakers beat the Rockets last month with Jordan Hill coming out to double-team Harden late in the 4th – now that’s good coaching. Harden top of the key iso is Houston’s closing play. Harden is used to doing that. So Byron asked Jordan Hill to leave Tarik and double on Harden. That threw Harden off-rhythm and forced some bad plays. That’s what Byron should have done last night. I’d rather have Batum or Myers Leonard beating me with a 3 late in the game than watching Lillard do his thing.
Calvin Chang says
@Darius – in each of your game previews, please end it with a blurb about how the Lakers have no chance and will probably lose by 10 or more points so don’t expect much. That seems to bring good luck to the team and make the games entertaining 🙂
tankyou says
Regarding double teaming, this seems like something we almost never do. At the ends of games it seems to make sense to double team a wing player that is “on fire” and force someone else to take a shot.
I honestly think we are a scrappy team, with a bunch of X-factor type talent. Swaggy & Lin are both modest players–but they both play like All-Stars every 5 games or so. For a couple of players that are only playing around 25mpg now adays, they sometimes completely change the game. Most teams benches are just trying to stem the damage or hold down the fort until the starters are back in. I argue that our bench is actually pretty amazing and are often out playing the starters–even when our 2nd stringers are playing against the other teams starters. Lin/Boozer/Swaggy alone has the potential for some amazing offensive output.
It’s not like the starters are amazing defenders either. Price is marginally better than LIn, but now that he plays starters minutes his def stats have declined. Ellington is a better defender than Kobe. Wes is usually better than Swaggy, Davis better than Carlos. Honestly don’t think Sacre is much worse on D than Hill, but I haven’t looked at the numbers.
The second strings +/- looks pretty bloody good since Lin/Boozer joined the group. For the most part, beyond Kobe’s recent excellent play–they have held down the fort. On any given night Boozer/Swaggy/Lin can get it going–same with Ellington. Whereas the 1st stringers offensively basically have Kobe (Davis if other people set him up) and Jordan Hill (when he’s not in the clouds). Re-watch this team from the first couple weeks during our blowouts, then see how we play now, much improved. Sometimes its useful to have continuity, develop chemistry between players, rather then just sign a bunch of new guys every year and throw them together. Cavs got thrown together and they don’t look to hot, even before Lebron’s injury recovery.
bryan S. says
Ko you can chill out with the negativity
Dude needs to watch the game dry
Vasheed says
My condolences to the Kupchak family.
Craig W. says
Just listened to John Ireland/Steve Mason interview with Jeannie Buss. I have heard her say this before, but it bears repeating, “What could the Lakers have spent the money they paid Kobe Bryant on that would have brought a greater return?”
There were no max quality players who were going to come to the Lakers and there weren’t even many impact players we could get without seriously overpaying. Gee it was too bad we didn’t sign Carmelo Anthony to a max contract, because he could have led this team to greater heights. Exactly what could the Lakers have done with that money? One caveat: you have to remain within the CBA rules in signing players.
Leo says
Craig W –
This past summer I was an advocate of signing two of the following:
– Greg Monroe (Age : 24; Current stats: 14.4 Points and 9.1 Rbs)
– Eric Bledsoe (Age: 24; Current stats: 16.7 Pts and 5.2 Rbs with 5.9 Ast)
– Lance Stepehenson (age 24; Current stats: 10.2 pts and 6.8 Rbs with 4.8 Ast)
Monroe and Bledsoe have been consistent performers. Stephenson has been a mild disappointment but my feeling all along was that he would have blossomed under Kobe’s guidance.
Look, I get that Jeannie is in spin mode to cover the Kobe contract mistake. Jeannie and Jim are focusing exclusively on elite FAs, the home run signing. Well, in my estimation there is only one truly elite player and that’s Lebron – who turned us down. The Lakers pursued Melo, who in my opinion is no longer elite. Signing Melo would have been a huge mistake because he would have clogged the Lakers cap space for years beyond Kobe. Plus, Melo points to the risk of signing players to large contracts once they hit 30 – the strong likelihood of injuries.
However, continually rolling cap space from year to year produces rosters like the one we currently have. This is why the Lakers have been mediocre for the past two years. My concern about targeting elite FAs is that there are very few of them and the Lakers will face stiff competition to sign them going forward. Additionally, elites hit the market when they are 29 or 30 – so they only have a few peak years left before their performance starts to decline. They usually don’t just chase money, they chase money and a chance to win. By constantly rolling cap space forward the Lakers are constantly giving up on a chance to make incremental roster improvements that put them in a position to be attractive for an elite FA.
That’s why the I get so upset with the FO. Because they aren’t really trying to win yet they equally aren’t trying to lose enough to keep our top five pick this year either. This summer the Lakers could have young controllable assets in Randle and their top 5 pick. By pursuing emerging elite players like Greg Monroe and Reggie Jackson the Lakers could transform their roster. Next season the Lakers would have real hope for the future because they would have a young and talented core — talented enough to start winning. To me that is how you sign a future elite player – by laying the ground work for a championship team now.
T. Rogers says
Craig,
It still doesn’t justify tying up that much to Kobe. Why not make the contract one year with a team option for the second? It is actually troubling to hear their logic for giving a 35 year old (at the time) coming off two major injuries the highest salary in the league is that there was no one else to pay. I mean this in all seriousness as a fan. The more Jeanie Buss talks the more I become discouraged as a fan. The thinking that gets revealed from her public comments just seems out of touch and off base. It also becomes clear that her and Jim pretty much don’t communicate with one another. The fact the Lakers are still trying to justify Kobe’s contract a year after it was signed is proof that it is universally considered a bad decision.
rubenowski says
Well the only reason they try to justify it is because people keep bringing it up. Just saying…
Oltimer says
Our sincere condolence to the Kupchack family for the loss of their child. Every Laker fan should include them in your prayers. No parent can imagine the unthinkable Mitch was A successful asst GM three consecutive championship when Alina was just a toddler and would lose her 12 years later.
Jo Houston says
T. Rodgers,
Kobe wouldn’t have signed a deal that gives the team power over him. Coming to a player of Kobe’s stature with a deal that includes a team option is comical. This is the same guy who had the NBA’s only trade clause for a while. Please let’s try and stay within the realm of reality when we discuss NBA transactions.
Jo Houston says
Kobe is the reason the Lakers signed their $3 Billion deal with TWC. You think Kobe doesn’t know that? The Buss family did the best they could. An entire league ganged up against them; lets try and remember that when we chastise them.
mud says
are people still going on about the contract?
Oldtimer says
One way of going around that cap
Sign Kobe for 16M 3 yrs then give the last year as bonus, no need to play. If the league run by Stearn gang up at the Lakers, why should the 2nd biggest media team kowtow to the wishes of small markets? If NY, LA and Boston rebel against small markets, can they insist their own agenda. Use smart power advantage when you got the market, the money and the brand. This is like geo politics, will you let a small communist country to control the American policy.
rr says
Like I said at the time, the biggest problem with Kobe’s deal is the second year. Given where the team is, giving him a one-year “thank you” deal would have been OK, although not a great idea. But making him the highest-paid player in basketball for his age-36 and age-37 seasons was dumb. Every other fanbase in basketball loves Kobe’s deal, and so do all his critics in the media. That should tell Jeanie and Jim something.
>Exactly what could the Lakers have done with that money?
—
We’ll never know, and that is kind of the point. One thing that is very clear is that big-name FAs in their primes want to be on teams with winning infrastructures and tying up that much money in KB when the Lakers have no serious frontline talent makes that very hard to pull off.
>There were no max quality players who were going to come to the Lakers and there weren’t even many impact players we could get without seriously overpaying.
Even if that is is the case, and you have zero evidence that it is, none of them would have been as overpaid as Kobe is and all of them are a lot younger. Like I said a few weeks ago, the problem with what the FO did is that they did not commit fully either to competing or to tanking, and they are probably going to get what they deserve for that: a team that wins just enough games to lose the draft pick to Phoenix. That may not be such a bad thing; if they turn over this year’s pick, then they get next year’s. But it also may be another disaster. We won’t know for awhile.
And, T. Rogers correctly reiterates a key point: if you have to explain a decision a year after the fact, that means that it isn’t working very well.
All that said, Kobe has done a great job staying on the floor this year, has played really well the last few games, and I don’t blame him in the least for taking the deal.
Robert says
I think you all might know that I love Kobe and want him to keep playing as long as possible. However, the conversation about Kobe’s contract is very amusing to me. I remember when this board discussed Kobe’s contract situation “before” the extension was signed. I posted multiple times that I was dreaming of at least a 20 year career and that I wanted the Laker to “start” discussions with Kobe at a reasonable salary. Many posts on this board mentioned a relatively clean cap in the summer of 2014. Many people were talking about Kobe retiring after his 18th year. That all changed when the FO drove an armored car up to Kobe’s house and he gave them permission to unload it. As a complete “Kobe Rules” guy, While I was ecstatic to get two more years, I still feel that the amount of money we gave him was ludicrous and a complete debacle by the FO (amongst other debacles). However more importantly, let’s look to the future. I want years 21 + 22. This summer I see three possibilities: 1) We start negotiating another extension with Kobe for years 21 + 22 at a much more reasonable salary 2) We mutually agree that Kobe will retire after year 20 and we announce that so free agents know the deal 3) We bury our heads in the sand, allow Kobe to enter year 20 without knowing whether it is his last year or not, this creates an air of uncertainty around the Lakers, and then we do something hastily during Kobe’s 20th year, one way or the other. My desire would be Option 1, however, since Jim Buss runs the Lakers, my fear is Option 3.
Oldtimer says
I offered my condolence to the Kupchak family which went into mod. till it remained unpublished.
I said – please include the Kupchak Family in your prayers from the grateful Laker Nation as we are all one big family mourning the death of their 15 year old daughter. I also added: For parents, it’s unthinkable that their baby came to this world at the height of Mitch’s popularity when Lakers were romping three Championships in a row, then decades later, she is gone. That is really sad and it hurts whatever is the illness and no achievement in this world can be equated to the loss of an innocent child who is just starting life. They need all our support and prayers.
J C says
I agree with Oldtimer.
Spreading 48 mil over three years made more sense and in fact Kobe may have appreciated the gesture just as much: ‘we think you’ll still be viable three years from now, and if not, take the $ anyway.’
In fact, that’s the number, 16/yr, I thought FO was gonna pay to begin with.
We’ve all speculated on what mid-tier players may have been available had more room been available.
To say, ‘what would we have spent it on anyway?’ is insultingly weak spin/damage control.
(Yes, we’re still talking about it, once in awhile.)
Craig W. says
Oldtimer,
We can all agree with you about the Kupchak family.
We, the fans, keep bringing up Kobe’s contract. The fact is it was a very good business deal and secured several other things. The Lakers are still a draw in the league, and that is primarily due to Kobe. Sorry the fans wanting to move on from Kobe don’t like it, but most of us – along with the Laker front office – aren’t going to agree with you in any way and will never give you the satisfaction of saying you were right. Too much money has already passed to the club to warrant any apologies.
On with building a fighting group this year, and improving next year. Go Lakers.
J C says
Oldtimer
Well said re Kupchak family.
Saddest thing imaginable to bury a child.
I hope he and his family can recover and strive to again find joy in their lives.
A blessing that they also have a son.
Nice to see folks here at FBG recognize this sobering moment.
Lil pau says
Someone here should compute the compound interest differential before suggesting 3 years at 16M is the same as 2 years at 24M. Maybe they can offer that money as a prize for guessing the number of times over the course of the rest of the season Aaron will say he’s right or that Ko will suggest a player smokes pot. They should then estimate how that money might perform on the stock market, assuming historic 7-8 percent returns, and add it to the total. Maybe that’s chump change to you, but not to most.
Kobe’s deal was a negotiation– of course the Lakers would have preferred 3 years at 16M, they would have even more emphatically preferred 10 years at 2.4M, but guess what? Neither of those deals would have gotten it done. How do we know? Because they didn’t.
Rob Westbrook says
Should’ve spread Kobe’s deal over 5 years and let him pull a Nash for years 3, 4, and 5. And unlike Nash, Kobe might actually show up to some team stuff and teach the young guys during his semi-retirement, instead of hiking and golfing every day.
Lakers are 27th in the league in rebounds allowed at 45.2 per game (-2.7 differential). I would like to see everyone crashing the boards more. I’ve been LOVING Kobe going for the rebounds lately instead of trying to cherry pick for early post position.
KenOak says
Fantastic win by the Pistons tonight!
J C says
Hey Lil Pau
That’s a pretty funny post.
What I was saying was, maybe the numbers were tensely negotiated as you suggest, but it didn’t feel that way at the time it was announced. And frankly I don’t think the Lakers preferred a longer term, same way they didn’t use the stretch provision on Nash.
What it did feel like was they overpaid and did so despite the player’s age and salary cap implications.
Oldtimer says
We can’t undo what has been done, we are just discussing some scenarios ways in circumventing the rules that are detrimental to the Lakers interest.
Lil Pau, the fact is that $16M per year is too low and it could easily be outbid by other teams. However, a contract is defined as meeting of minds between two parties. The unwritten part here which no team can offer that if he does not feel like playing on the 3rd year, it is given as bonus for the services rendered to the team. Once you put that clause in writing, David Stern would disapprove such arrangement and penalized the Lakers if you let them know that is the intention of the two parties, it becomes null and void by CBA rules. However, in the real business world there are lots of contracts that are gentlemen’s agreement only, a handshake based on trust as long as there is a mutual consent between two parties. I think Kobe would want that, since he wants to get the 6th elusive ring with the right teammates under a tight salary cap constraints. He also knows that he is a Superstar that draws fans to the Lakers and $48M extension is just fair. He would trust Lakers commitment on the 3rd year option that he could keep the money and walk away from the team should he desires not to play anymore. He could always say to the league that he has terrible backaches. sounds familiar huh!
rr says
and secured several other things
—
Which are?
Also, I don’t think that all that many fans actually don’t want Kobe on the team anymore. People just wanted him to be offered a lot less money. Also, his deal actually hadn’t really come up here in awhile….until you brought it up, quoting Jeanie Buss, who I guess qualifies as a fan. The KobeTalk here lately has been about his usage rate and his playing style more than about his contract.
As to who is right about it, I suppose that is still TBD. One of the justifications used in support of the deal, and Jeanie herself has actually alluded to this, is that it will show future FAs that the Lakers take care of their stars and that will be another selling point. So, if Durant or Anthony Davis is holding up a Lakers jersey at a presser in 2016 or 2017, respectively, and saying that the deal that the Busses gave Kobe is a reason that they wanted to be here, well, then those people will have been right. But at this point in time none of the arguments advanced in defense of the deal has ever made much sense from either a team-building or basketball perspective, and that is even more apparent now that we are seeing the reality of the team as it has been constructed and of Kobe at age 36.
I mostly agree with Leo. By the time Durant hits FA, he will be nearly 28, and entering his 10th year in the NBA. We are seeing this year that James and Anthony are both 30 and appear to be breaking down. WRT Durant specifically, in addition to OKC and Washington, the Knicks will almost certainly be going after him hard, as will as any number of other teams. There is no reason to think that Durant would want to come here, but in the Shelburne interview, Jim specifically references the ability to sign “two max free agents.” While of course he cannot say any names in public and never will, I sure would like to know who he thinks they are.
LKK says
It’s the current CBA that is to blame for much of the Lakers’ inability to field a quality team. People tend to forget that Kobe took a pay cut in the neighborhood of $6M/year when he signed this deal. The Lakers have propped up the weaker teams in the league for many years via revenue sharing. Despite that, their success incited so much ill will and jealousy amongst the Cubans and Dan Gilberts that it led to The Veto and a CBA aimed in large part at the Lakers. The climate after the Lakers repeated In 2010 lead to what I would suggest were acts of collusion between the owners and then commissioner Stern to knock the Lakers off their high horse and level the playing field. In that, they have certainly succeeded.
Meanwhile, the NBA along with their sycophants in the media put out the “noble warrior taking less money in order to help his team win” spin and anoint players like Duncan and Nowitski as some sort of saints for doing so. What a load of horse manure!!
The owners put one over on the players big time and along with their media partners have convinced most people that they have created better competitive balance throughout the league. I’m not one who sees it that way.
The Lakers FO tried to recover quickly with a series of moves that simply haven’t worked. There’s no denying that. However, it appears to me that the efforts of the front office have been hamstrung by a CBA that was aimed squarely at the Lakers’ previous success.
Someone on this board, I forget who, suggested that veteran players such as Kobe, Duncan, Nowitski, et al recieve a sort of “franchise player” designation where their salaries wouldn’t count against the cap. I heartily agree. Players such as Kobe, and there aren’t many, who have helped create the world wide success of the NBA should not be asked to take less money late in their careers. And they should definitely not be vilified if they don’t.
Rubenowski says
Lakers giving Kobe $48 mil for 2 years at age 36 > Thunder not offering Harden the max
Do you ever wonder if Kevin Durant ever thinks about how different things would be if the Thunder had offered Harden $8 million more? I know I would. Of course, that wouldn’t stop me from believing I can win a championship with Westbrook and Ibaka, but still, that team with Harden could have been a team for the ages. They had a good chance to rival the Spurs, Bulls, 80’s Celtics and 80’s and 2000’s Lakers teams. Instead, they have not made it back to the finals since, and they will not have home court advantage in the playoffs this year. If I’m KD I don’t forget these things come contract time.
Los Angeles is still a huge market. The Lakers have a lucrative TV deal. Stars (KD, Anthony Davis, or other big time players) will still want to come. I have not lost hope that we will sign someone great in about a year and a half. I’m staying positive.
In other news, the Lakers have the fourth worst record in the league at the moment, and it looks like the Pistons will not battle us in that department anymore. This means there’s less competition in the race to keep our pick. That sounds mighty good.
bleedpurplegold says
Wow….i dont post much here, but still come here on a daily basis to read your guys opinions on my lakers, because i think most guys here discuss on a level i cant see on other forums…..but i strongly disagree on one thing i have to read over and over again in here
I know i havent seen as much from the purplegold as some oldtimers here (get it? 🙂 ) cause i am only 25….but hell i dont wanna read about singing secound or third string players like monroe or stephonson ever again and here is why:
1) this franchise stives for greatness and greatness only….what would a team starting lin-kob-stephonson-monroe-hill really be able to achieve?!? Still without a legit center in town, no rim protection (ed is a better defender than monroe!!!) and no1 to create his own shot besides kob and maybe young….i think we would have had no chance in this western conference had we signed those players
2) the la lakers have NEVER settled for those kind of players….espacially when guys like m.gasol, leonard, kd, ad, aldridge and so on will be available within the next 2 years…heck even lebron could test the market if cleveland messes things up (they will!)
3) a new cba is just around the corner and you can bet your house on it, there will be more money to spend and this will only benefit us….why do we have to commit long term dollars to those secound string guys if we can have those superstars by simply outbidding everyone while still being able to sign a secound max guy to come play alongside a more unselfish kobe who understands his limitations and is still a 20/7/7 guy?!?!
4) we keep our pick by tanking this year….i hate losing as much as everyone in here, but with okafor on the line and the lottery in place, we gotta give it a shot….the league still owns us one from that cp3 veto, so if they can hand out 3 first picks to the cavs why not give one to us….plus a top5 pick would very likely still be a better prospect than monroe in my opinion, who still has no defensive game….in fact, i would take ed davis over him in our situation….
5) we would have had to overpay massively to get those secound tier players…they were all starters, felt like they have proven themselves and want to be paid like that….this year, we could get prospects like reggie jackson from okc….bench players showing some promise, but they know they gotta prove themselves in this league as starters first to get paid big time…wise move to wait for those players…think we could get a player like him for 5-7 p/a for 2-3yrs…i would take a deal like that over 10-13 for monroe or stephonson anytime….
To round it up: my prayers go the mitch and his family…i have also lost a family member of mine recently, but for someone to lose his daughter, at age 15, there is nothing worse than that….sad news, hope he can recover from that quickly!!! Really glad to see u guys showing love and respect!!!!
BigCitySid says
-My condolences to Mitch and Family. Peace & Blessings.
-@ Mud, “are people still going on about the contract?” As long as it effects what the Lakers can or can’t do it will be a relevant topic…as you can see.
-Love how well Detroit & to a lesser extent, Charlotte are starting to play. 11-23 Pistons are 6-0 since waiving Josh Smith (they were previously 5-23). 12-24 Hornets are 6-4 since sitting Lance Stephenson (they were previously 6-20). Their recent success has valued them pass the 11-24 Lakers, pushing them to the 4th worst league record. Wishing continuing success to Detroit & Charlotte.
Stuart says
Leo: I agree with most everything you have said. However, I think the FO is slowly coming around to the realization that incremental wins this year are meaningless. I think we’ll see some trades at the deadline which will move out Hill and Lin for future assets.
The Lakers have the 4th worst record in the league and while I do not see us getting into the top three I also don’t see us moving up either. The teams below us are truly mailing it in. I would not have had an issue with the Lakers doing the same but I understand why the FO felt they needed to look like they were trying.
Regarding the never ending discussion on Kobe’s extension. I think those that push back are not discounting Kobe’s value to the Lakers. However, the amount sealed the fate of the franchise until Kobe retires. It made little sense from a pure basketball perspective as it left little room to field a competitive team – which should be the FOs main objective. A better solution would have been to agree to hire Kobe to a senior position in the organization, post retirement, at a ridiculous salary to compensate for a more cap friendly extension.
Kobe is all about winning so the extension and the restrictions it placed on the team has always confused me. All the more reason the keep the top 5 pick this year and make the off season improvements you suggested. I’d like to send Kobe out with some decent talent around him as opposed to having his final year be as dismal as this one.
BigCitySid says
-Harden & Lowry have been selected as “Players of the Month” for December for their conferences. Yet neither is on pace to be selected as a starter in the All-Star game by so called knowledgeable fans.
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/01/05/raptors-lowry-rockets-harden-players-of-month/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts
-Truly hoping Lakers become sellers during this trading period.
-More & more interest growing in recently waived Knick Dalembert. Warriors want him for insurance in case often injured Bogut goes down in the post season.
George says
LKK: Regarding your comment about ‘Franchise Player Tags’ and the cap. I have another idea. Players that are drafted by their current team should count less against the cap. The percentage reduction could be variable based on years of service.
The Lakers, who drafted and helped develop Kobe should not be penalized for making a good draft pick. Kobe should count less against the Lakers cap. However, FAs would fully count against the cap.
Robert says
My previous comments on the Kobe contract appear to have been eaten up in cyber world. So rather than comment – perhaps a question will make it through. What to do with Kobe after year 20 and when? I want at least 2 more years.
Robert says
“Kobe……having his final year ” Is next year his final year? Are we going to announce that so he can have a farewell tour? Are we going to pursue an extension? Or none of the above and simply hope for the best leaving questions and chaos surrounding everything?
George says
I love Kobe but have serious doubts about another extension. By the 2016/17 season Kobe would certainly be a bench/role player. Is that something he would even accept?
T. Rogers says
“By the time Durant hits FA, he will be nearly 28, and entering his 10th year in the NBA. We are seeing this year that James and Anthony are both 30 and appear to be breaking down.”
—
This is a key observation. The way the current CBA is structured the best players don’t make it to unrestricted free agency until they start their decent. That doesn’t mean Durant at 30 won’t be stellar. But realistically OKC is getting his best years. Look at Westbrook. At some point those 3 knee surgeries on the same knee are going to cause problems. The word is Kevin Love is already having issues with his knees as well.
In most cases winning teams need at least one star player whose peak is still in front of him. That’s why at some point the Lakers will need to either draft a top level player or overpay for one through RFA. Maybe Randle is that guy. We don’t know. Unfortunately his timetable got pushed back a year.
LKK says
@George…
I’m sure when the next CBA is negotiated, many proposals such as ours will be discussed. Frankly I expect a strong backlash from the players association and wouldn’t be at all surprised by a work stoppage at that time.
@Robert…
I just hope Kobe and the team find a way to ensure he ends his career as a Laker, no matter when that end may come. I shudder at the thought of Kobe chasing a ring in another uniform.
tankyou says
Regarding Kobe playing beyond his current contract.
I think its highly unlikely, due to just physical pain and decline. Kobe is in pretty severe physical decline, but he has skill and the smarts to find ways to contribute–plus he’s 6’6″. If he was a smaller guard he will be in big trouble at this point with his reduced explosiveness. Kobe clearly sees the writing on the wall that he HAS to sit out games, I’m sure this bothers him greatly. I just don’t see Kobe wanting to continue to play if it means sitting out 20 games a year purposefully, some for injuries, and then be a much poorer version of himself.
I think he’s starting to show that he wants to leave a mark and is adapting his game and using strengths that he didn’t not rely on that much (like passing) because he was such an able scorer and the #1 option. Even this year, he has to pick his moments when he’s the #1 option, or he shoots horribly. But how about we just get through this year first and see how things pan out.
I do like T. Rogers notion of 1 star type player, I think that’s all you need if you have a true TEAM. Even Miami and their daunted “big 3” only survived the finals with some big games from Mike Miller and elderly Ray Allen hitting some huge 3’s to keep them in the games. After Mike Miller was gone and they had to rely on Chalmers, things got bad quick. That and defensively they just weren’t that impressive anymore. I keep repeating it, but there are no “Star” players that are free agents next year. Rondo/Dragic are borderline at best and both will be 30+ which is not the time to hand them a 4 year max contract when you are rebuilding! Neither of those guys with Kobe will mean a bit of difference, the Lakers need a defensive Center, a good SF and for Randle to get past his Rookie year 2.0 intact and improving.
Calvin Chang says
@Rubenowski – I don’t believe Harden at OKC would have become Harden as he is today if he had stayed with the Thunder. Chemistry and team dynamic is a huge part of the game. Harden needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He’s a quarterback, a play-creator. Westbrook is also a quarterback. In some ways, Kevin Durant as well although KD can also be effective off the ball. But if Harden stayed with OKC, he’d probably be playing as 6th man like Manu and averaging 17-3-5 instead of monster numbers like with Rockets.
BigCitySid says
-A reminder for all suggesting ways the FO could have structured Kobe’s contract so it wouldn’t be the albatross (cap-wise) around the neck of the franchise that it currently is. Kobe wanted to be the highest salaried player in the NBA. So there really wasn’t much room to work with since the Knicks are paying Amare’ only $90,000 less.
-Have more hope than confidence in current Laker ownership. After all, they’ve never done it before. For those stating the new CBA has hamstrung big market teams like the Lakers, that’s true, the game has changed, new rules, now how do you handle it? Like any business, it’s survival of the fittest…or you become extinct or irrelevant.
-Pertaining to ideas on how a team can keep & pay their veterans their true value w/o them having to comprise salary in order to field competitive teams: the new CBA could allow up to two “franchise players” which a team has originally have drafted to become minority part owners (1 to 5%) during the life of their career. This would be strictly an option a team could use to keep a player they truly believe is a valued commodity. Yes, details remain to be iron ed out, but that would be the gist of the deal.
Robert says
LKK/George: My post from yesterday at 6:00 PM is now showing. Take a look. We do not want history to repeat itself. This conversation is completely parallel with the convo from 2012.
LKK: I have mixed feelings about that looking back now. I suggested in 2012 that we might want to blow it up and “let Kobe go” pursue rings elsewhere. It is hard to deny that all would not have been better off now. Except for me (and other Kobe fanatics) perhaps, because I would not be writing Kobe alerts on a Laker board and I would not have gone to Minny to see Kobe move by MJ. I would make that sacrifice for the good of Kobe and the Lakers however : )
Rubenowski says
Calvin,
I am aware of Harden not being the Harden that we now know if he’d stayed in OKC. But even back then people were falling in love with him, and rightfully so. After that season Westbrook got injured. He could’ve helped out. Durant was injured this season. He could’ve stepped up. Having a player like Manu coming off the bench is great. Harden playing like Manu makes OKC a team for the ages. Chemistry may have been a problem, but chemistry can always be a problem. It hasn’t yet in OKC, and we can’t really speculate as to whether they would’ve had chemistry issues or not. It worked that year they went to the finals. Why couldn’t it work for years to come?
Tonefinder says
Ko, the straight talk express! My favorite is when he sobers up later, comes back, apologizes.
Anyone notice the nature of many of Kobe’s passes- swung-arm, cross-court. It seems he’ll dribble/probe, get pushed back, be doubled and trapped along the sideline, wait more, finally lobbing one of these ineffective passes. The ball will take so long to reach its target, the defense has time to adjust. Now late in the clock, we still won’t have a shot.
I guess teammates aren’t spaced properly, so an ideal passing angle probably doesn’t exist in these instances.
I wondered what the more knowledgeable FB&G members think of this? I should mention that I’m more of a Kobe fan than a Laker fan, or even a a basketball fan.
Calvin Chang says
@Rubenowski: It’s hard to speculate what could have happened. I remember after OKC beat MIA in game 1 of the finals, Harden was upset in the locker room after playing only 21 minutes or so. DFish had to straighten him out. It’s possible Harden would have accepted his 6th man role or maybe demanded starter minutes. But it’s really hard for their FO to see the future when they traded Harden. KD is a high-character guy. In his MVP speech, it sounds like he really loves his teammates – even mentioning Nick Collison and Steve Adams. But agreed that if FO kept Harden, OKC would have been more dangerous.
rr says
Yet neither is on pace to be selected as a starter in the All-Star game by so called knowledgeable fans.
—-
Gosh, Sid, who do you think Harden should be starting in place of on the Western squad? I can’t imagine who you are thinking of.
The ASG is a popularity contest and now allows international on-line voting. Kobe will start until he retires, and frankly, that is as it should be if people want to see him.
Calvin Chang says
@Tonefinder: After he sat out 3 games, Kobe has been playing and passing much better. I haven’t seen him lob many ineffective passes. A few of his passes were telegraphed or too ambitious and were intercepted. But Kobe has been passing better. I think Kobe and Jeremy are the best passers on the team. Nobody’s perfect, so some passes will be intercepted. But Kobe and Jeremy are good at passing after drawing the defensive attention.
Oldtimer says
I would like to say something in defense of Ko’s live opinionated posts during games. He gives us an on the spot viewpoint when a player commits a turnover or missed shots, then rectify it later when that same player amends and becomes productive to the team. His live input moves like a pendulum mixing criticisms and live reporting with passion followed by apologies later if proven to be wrong. I would not fault him but have suggestions to make based on my observation on play-by-play announcer and also journalist like John Ireland on radio. First, report the facts as they occur; Second, when the game is over, you can now provide your insights about the game. With that system, Ko would not need to apologize later for editorializing after the game, whether it was a W or L. Undoubtedly, we have to give him credit too for his efforts and spirit in giving us a live input even if we don’t agree with what he thought about the players and the game itself.
Rubenowski says
Calvin,
The Thunder could’ve given Harden the max and made him a starter. He doesn’t have to come off the bench. A starting lineup of Westbrook, Harden, Durant and Ibaka…my goodness. Everybody talking about their Big 3. OKC would’ve had a Big 4 and they were all drafted. That’s just sad.
If chemistry eventually turned out to be a problem then you deal with it. But seriously, this team would’ve been winning and winning. And winning is great for chemistry. All I’m saying is that I’m 95% sure the Lakers would’ve spent that money. That’s gotta count for something.
Rubenowski says
Regarding KD at 28…
I think KD plays the type of game that can get him to play as many years as Kobe at an efficient level. He is long and can score with ease. He doesn’t do as much as Lebron, so his body won’t suffer as much. I can see KD dominating until he’s 33 or 34, and then still playing well after that. That gives us 5 years of KD playing at a very high level. I’ll take that. I’ve always been a fan of KD, and I’ve always preferred him over Lebron. Lebron is great, but I think KD is more clutch and can score better.