The three or four games that the Lakers played against the Spurs were always a part of a select few games that were an absolute must watch for the matchup. The Spurs, as the defending champions, are still a team, as a basketball fan, that you still need to consume a fair amount of during the course of a season. Stylistically, they play one of the more gorgeous brands of basketball in the league. The names are still there, too. Duncan, Ginobili, Parker — the old faces are as they always were. There’s Kawhi Leonard and a cast of role players who have bought into Popovich’s system, have a higher turnover rate, but the kind of guys brought in are the same as they ever were.
The same cannot be said about this Lakers team. All of the pieces who were there for some of the more epic clashes between to two premier franchises of this new millennium’s first decade are either gone or, as of this morning, out with a season-ending rotator cuff tear. Darius briefly discussed the injury yesterday, and there was a small sliver of hope that Bryant could have an opportunity to come back this season, but that was ruled out according to ESPN:
The Los Angeles Lakers expect star Kobe Bryant to miss the remainder of the season with a torn rotator cuff, sources told ESPN’s Ramona Shelburne.
Bryant met with team doctor Steven Lombardo in Los Angeles on Friday, and Lombardo found a significant tear in the rotator cuff in his right shoulder. Bryant is expected to take the weekend to decide whether to undergo surgery and has an appointment with Dr. Neal ElAttrache, another Lakers doctor, on Monday.
Without Bryant, any luster between a once fierce rivalry has shifted to a stodgy storyline, lacking any real character. While the two never officially matched up on the hardwood, the respective careers between Bryant and Duncan have always been in an ostensible fight for the greatest of an era. There are legitimate claims for either side; the steady plateau of greatness from Duncan is as admirable as the great peaks that oftentimes make it easy to overlook the depths of Bryant’s valleys. This was a storyline that we’ve held onto for almost two decades, and tonight the story shifts from two of the game’s all-time greats to an uneven matchup of basketball teams.
The Spurs are coming off a rare blowout loss at the hands of a Chicago Bulls team that have struggled through much of January. The Bulls had won only three of their previous nine games before routing the Spurs — which saw the core of the Spurs sit out for a large chunk of the second half — meaning a more talented team is also going to be well rested and looking to bounce back from an embarrassing loss on national television.
The Spurs, have been playing some of their best basketball of the season in January. In the 10 games before their loss, they won eight of those games, with the two losses coming against a Detroit team that has been thriving without Josh Smith, and a very good Washington Wizards team.
In their last four, they’ve seen the return of Leonard, who missed the previous 15 games, and 18 games total this season. And as it has been over the last three seasons, the Spurs have absolutely thrived with Leonard on the floor. Without Leonard this season, the Spurs have played .500 basketball. With him, they’re playing .654 ball and are nine points per game better with him on the floor than off. His versatility on both sides of the ball allows the Spurs to experiment with various lineups and different looks to keep the ball moving, and allow others to concentrate in areas they excel in more than others.
For the Lakers, every loss due to injury births new opportunity. Nick Young will become the Lakers primary perimeter scorer. There will be a larger emphasis on the point guard play from Jeremy Lin and Ronnie Price. Without Bryant consuming 30 minutes per game, it leaves the door open for Jordan Clarkson to see more minutes, and more games.
The front court rotation doesn’t change, but the impact of these guys, especially against this Spurs team should be substantial. The Spurs have struggled keeping opposing bigs at bay in recent weeks — especially active, athletic bigs like Jordan Hill and Ed Davis. In the Lakers win against the Spurs, both Hill and Carlos Boozer helped tremendously with double-doubles, and the team will need that kind of impact from the front court if the Lakers are to leave San Antonio with a season series win.
A win isn’t expected, but this Lakers team has been resilient at weird times this season, and tonight is an opportunity for them to rally around some bad organizational news.
Where you can watch: 5:30 p.m. start time on TWC Sportsnet. Also listen on ESPN Radio 710AM Los Angeles.
Shaun says
Jordan clarkson with the start 🙂 🙂 🙂
BigCitySid says
-Absolutely no idea what to expect tonight. Will Pop sit one, two, or three of his players? Will the Lakers roll over and die? Will they win one for Kobe? Or will this be the beginning of a team coming together to the point of endangering their top five draft selection? No one knows…one reason to watch the game.
-Hawks vs Thunder game is looking pretty good right now. Go Hawks!
Lakafan says
@BruceFeldmanCFB: The Lakers starting 5 tonight: Jordan Clarkson, Wayne Ellington, Ryan Kelly, Jordan Hill and Robert Sacre. Mercy.
So glad BS finally came to his senses and is starting Clarkson!!
tankyou says
That’s the funny thing about tanking this year, its not good enough to merely be bad, you have to lose constantly to remain one of the bottom 5 worst teams. Even with the level of talent we have this year still able to play, they possibly can win a game here and there. Just a few wins and there goes the draft chance. Being in the West is the only reason I think we still have a fair shot at the protected pick.
I always hope for a win, so hope we make Pop feel Ill with another surprise win–this one with Leonard playing! Also just hope there are no more injuries and no one even sprains an ankle the rest of the season.
tankyou says
OK there is no COVERT tank, this is beyond just “experimentation”. Byron Scott is just going for a straight up losing for sure, if he’s going to give that starting 5 the most minutes tonight. That’s just throwing the game straight up. Clarkson, Kelly, and Sacre are going to start?!! Is this the twilight zone or something? Are they trading Wes/Hill/Lin this weekend or something?
Chearn says
At the Staples Center in the game against Memphis, Kobe went with the trainer to the locker room at least three times. After the last time, he went back to the bench and during a timeout I erroneously reported he was stretching his back, but in hindsight it is clear that he was stretching his right shoulder. Well, at least we now have the answer to why Kobe’s shooting percentage plummeted.
There are two explanations for this starting lineup: 1) Davis is being held out for a potential trade; 2) Sacre, Kelly and Clarkson are being showcased for a trade.
Ko says
Nice D league lineup. Might score 60 tonight. Then again may get shutout.
Nice job FO.
tankyou says
That starting 5 is the OKAFOR Line-up. IF those guys play the bulk of the minutes the Lakers will lose in Epic fashion, I’m talking 30 game losing streak. Not a starting line-up in the league even close to as bad. It’s the zero assist line-up, since Clarkson is basically a shooting guard anyway.
If this is the type of stuff to look forward to, this is my last lakers game for the season. I’ll wait and see what new team they throw out there next year, or if Kobe decides to play after rehab. I’m seriously disgusted with this, Byron Scott can evaluate players in practice, half the bloody season is over already. This should just be considered throwing the game. This makes me not want to watch basketball anymore. Don’t know how any of you guys can enjoy this in any form.
Karen says
Sacre is awful, clarkson showed promise. Everyone wanted clarkson, what do you think
Lakafan says
Looks like Lin gonna get dnp cd tonight, officially in dog house.
Ko says
Price, Sacre and Johnson are not NBA players.
Maybe not WNBA players.
gene says
Tonights starting 5 might be the worse in the Lakers history…Any worse?…
Ko says
Not out of the question this mess might not win another game this year. Scary thought.
LKK says
Horford of ATL is one tremendous player. Great individual and team defender. Undersized, but oh my! Ditto Paul Milsap.
Clarkson providing a bit of a bright spot for our Lakers. No Lin? Strange!
hop says
This team is just getting lower and lower. This team just needs to start over from the top to bottom.
No way Sacre or Price would start on any other team in the NBA. B. Scott needs to go.
dxmanners says
Clarkson under control, goes to the hoop with either hand, can always get a shot off. Impressed. He’ll only get better under the nurturing eye of Steve Nash. Doh!
Sacre still Sacre. Ugh.
Ceartas says
@gene
On April Fools Day, 1975, the Lakers started Cazzie Russell, Corky Calhoun, Zelmo Beatty, Gail Goodrich, and Stu Lantz in a losing (124-106) effort against Portland. The Lakers finished 5th in that miserable season.
I’m thinking Chick would say that Cazzie and the Sisters of Mercy could whip this starting lineup.
karen says
Why is scott showing up lin?
Ko says
That Price is clearly a better player then Lin, says Steve Wondet Scott.
Anonymous says
Mr. Scott needs to get business cards made based in his last 4 years.
Professional tanker, will travel.
Ko says
Does this look like the most valuable team in the NBA
karen says
Scott says he knows what lin can do and wanted to get a look at price. 19 minutes 0 points. Again not a negative word towards scott from laker commentators.
hop says
Price is shooting 35% and there is no way he should be playing before Clarkson or Lin .
Anonymous says
Karen all Laker announcers were warned by Jum Buss and FO and told to stop the negative talk. Since then it’s been all good no bad. Job over truth from now in.
karen says
Lin left arena without speaking to reporters
Mid-Wilshire says
There are a lot of negative comments tonight. Considering that the current version of the Lakers had almost no chance of beating a determined, relatively healthy, full-throttle San Antonio Spurs team in San Antonio, I’m not quite sure I understand the temptation to throw stones at a team that’s already down. Even so, I saw some positives.
1) Byron Scott is willing to experiment. And why not? The season is lost. The team has hit rock bottom. And there’s nothing to lose by attempting to learn what combinations (if any) might work best.
2) The Lakers lost. In the overall scheme of things, this is not a bad thing. (I thought I’d never say this.) I feel almost certain that the Lakers will finish in the bottom 5, thus keeping their coveted high draft pick. At this point, I see almost no chance of their going on some sort of improbable winning streak that will jeopardize that.
3) Jordan Clarkson looked excellent. This is probably the best news of all. His line was not at all bad — 11 points, 5-9 shooting, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, only one turnover. And he was playing with great poise against Tony Parker much of the time. And he was not humiliated…at all. In fact, he was probably the Lakers’ best player on the court tonight.
I have to see more of JC. But if you think of it, this could, potentially, be very good news. The Lakers are at a stage where they are taking baby steps. This season (at long last), they’re developing Jordan Clarkson. In fact, I expect him to start again. They’ve also discovered Tarik Black who could be a real contributor.
Next season, they could have possibly three (count them: 3) draft picks: possibly the #4 pick, the #25 or 26 pick (from Houston), and their own 2nd round pick (around #34). So they could end up with 3 very interesting contributors such as Karl-Anthony Towns (Kentucky’s 7-foot center and a genuine rim-protector), Chasson Randle (a 6-2 PG from Stanford who dropped 26 on a tough Arizona team last night), and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson (Arizona’s 6-7, 220 SF who averages 11 ppg and 6.6 rebounds per game and who may be the best defensive player in the nation).
If you combine some variation of those additions with a returning Julius Randle, Tarik Black, and a very intriguing and athletic Jordan Clarkson, the future need not be so bleak.
It’s just a matter of taking one step at a time.
Dox says
Quite a few people here dismissed comments I made last summer stating that Klay Thompson was on the verge greatness. I’m happy Klay is showing that the next time he is seemingly available it is worth every effort to bring him aboard. Remember no one in the history of the NBA has hit more three pointers in the first three years of their career than Klay. This guy’s the second best shooting guard in the league and a lot of people here didn’t want him.
LKK says
One thing that I hope the Lakers FO take away from all the turmoil of the past few years is the importance of depth in today’s NBA. If you look around, all the top teams have deep rosters. GS, SA, Atl, Dallas…they’re all loaded. I believe that the Lakers must improve their scouting techniques and poach some underutilized players from the good teams. LA needs to think outside the box. They need to think in terms if incremental improvement and building a complete roster. Maybe the only way to do that is endure the growing pains of young players and thus identifying true keepers as many here have suggested.
R says
LKK: “If you look around, all the top teams have deep rosters. GS, SA, Atl, Dallas…they’re all loaded.”
——————————————
What about Portland? They increased their depth by adding Lakers cast offs Kaman and Blake. Guys who evidently couldn’t contribute to a Lakers team who now features Nick Young as their “star”. The Bulls and Rockets also augmented their rosters by adding big men who the Lakers let get away in return for nothing. Not that I’m bitter or anything …
Manuel says
Lin not playing could also mean a trade is imminent. Any news?
rr says
“It’s 330 am and the Lakers are at a cockfight.”
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/01/23/kamenetzky-post-kobe-injury-lakers-need-to-embrace-total-rebuilt/
Ko says
Remember yesterday when the starting lineup was:
Nash, Kobe, Metta, Pau and Dwight.
Today it was:
Kelly Clarkson(without the signing) Ellington, Hill, Sacre Blu.
4 of which never started an NBA Game in their life.
Hard to believe Lakers managed to get nothing in return for any of them guys 2 years ago yet gave away 3 draft choices instead.
In the history of Laker basketball the ineptitude by Jimmy, as head of basketball operations, is unparalleled. A monkey with a dart board of players names and 5 darts would have done better.
Jimmy you just made Frank McCort look like sports Mensa of the century in LA. There is no joy in Mudville the mighty Lakers have vanished.
tankyou says
Byron Scott “I wanted to see what Ronnie Price can do.” LOL, so the guy who is 31 and has been in the league for 10 years and has now started almost half the season–you don’t know what he can do yet?!? Nothing about this game changed my mind, just cemented that Byron Scott is a horrible Coach, and a big part of that is his public statements are often non-sensical and idiotic.
Clarkson is a SG and should be developed as a shooting guard, maybe with his athleticism he can take over for Kobe when he retires. Last night is the worst starting 5 I’ve seen thrown out there. And its against the Spurs not like you have to try so hard to guarantee a loss. Scott is leading the Lakers from a bad but competitive team to just a straight up horrible team. Good luck with that Ronnie Price young talent experiment, figure out how to translate toughness into talent. The Lakers benched their best all around offensively player they have left out of choice? This team is a joke, starting to make Nolan’s Knicks look like a stable high level franchise in comparison. Just get rid of everybody they possibly can, trade everyone for a 2nd rounder and a bag of chips and do a clean reboot with Randle and Clarkson and a NEW COACH!
Lakafan says
I agree Clarkson is more of a sg, he can create for himself but not really for others the way a true pg can. He might possibly develop that skill in the future but to me he looks like a monta Ellis type. A buddy and I were debating this last night he thinks Clarkson is a pg. Darius, others what do u think Clarksons ideal position is?
Mid-Wilshire says
@ tankyou and Lakafan,
I see Clarkson as a SG right now but with the ability to become a PG. The common term, of course, is combo-guard. I think that’s what defines him right now.
Even so, JC is very much a work in progress. I don’t think we’ll have a clear answer to the question, “Is Jordan Clarkson a PG or a SG?” for another 2 years. Let’s see how he develops. Regardless of his future position, I think it’s a very good thing that he’s playing both positions now.
I was also pleased that Byron Scott had the guts to start Clarkson last night and play him more minutes than anyone else on the team. I’m not a Scott apologist by any means. But I don’t think he’s nearly as clueless as some of the commenters here seem to indicate. He has very little to work with and is experiementing as best he can. Clarkson could be a major part of that experiment. I expect to see him start again.
minorthreatt says
The BK piece rr linked to above is dead-on. It’s all about asset management; you can be bad but still have some idea of how to leverage your assets. This has been the third great failure of the Lakers the past two or three years, after the Howard/Nash gambles and Kobe’s extension. Letting Pau, Kaman, etc. walk while receiving nothing in return was a huge mistake. It can’t happen again with Hill and Lin and whoever else, no matter how little they get in return.
If it’s a second rounder, so be it. For example: who has more value to the Lakers moving forward: Clarkson or Jordan Hill?
George says
In my mind Byron was never more than an interim coach to ride out the Kobe era. Kobe was the FOs security blanket providing them cover from having to make the tough decisions about rebuilding the team and who to coach it. Byron was never about the future he was a way to milk the last drops of the past.
If anything this is certain: even if Kobe plays next year, he can’t be counted on to carry the team. That page has turned 18 months before the FO counted on. I can only hope that Jim has been drawing up and refining all sorts of plans about making the Lakers a winning team again. Because time to act starts with this years trading deadline. There is no pass until the summer of 2016.
I’m not saying that he has to win next year but he has to show progress. If we are overloaded with 1 year contracts given to ‘last chance’ players we’ll know this is truly a mess with little hope for a turn around under current management. It’s time to start putting a visible foundation in place.
Chearn says
Good analysis, Phillip.
Many on this board prefer D’Antoni, the man that chased away three quality big men and found little use for Hill whether he scored a double-double off the bench or not. Hill sustained several DNP’s with D’Antoni on the bench.
It astounds me how many fans clamored to remove weak defensive players Boozer and Lin from the starting lineup, yet repined endlessly over the lack of offense when defensive players Price and Davis were inserted.
Then came the free Clarkson and give the youngsters playing time movement arrived. Bashing Byron game in and game out for, not playing the future. Last night, Scott gave Clarkson his inaugural start in his hometown, along with Kelly and Ellington per this fan bases yearnings. When couch coaching failed to yield the results envisioned, talk returned to Great Scott; he’s clueless!
Memo
From: Byron Scott, Los Angeles Lakers Head Coach
To: Lakers Nation
I can’t get no satisfaction, I can’t get no satisfaction, ‘Cause I try and I try and I try and I try, I can’t get no, I can’t get no…I can’t get no satisfaction, all I get is fan bashin’, I can’t get no satisfaction, No satisfaction, no satisfaction, no satisfaction!
Scott
LKK says
Clarkson reminds me a lot of George Hill of Indiana.
rr says
I (and others) said in preseason that Price is what he is: he is over 30 has a nine-year track record that shows that he can’t shoot nearly well enough to be anything more than a 3rd PG, and I also said that Byron is the kind of guy who would like Price’s feistiness, and I am sure that is part of the reason that the FO brought him in. But all one has to do look at Price’s Bask Ref Page and watch him play 3-5 times to see this.
It is clear that Byron doesn’t like Lin and vice versa, so the question now is whether the Lakers can get a second-round pick for him. If not, they should just cut him and let him hook on with a better team. I personally like Lin. He seems like a good guy, and I think he is a serviceable guard off the bench, occasionally capable of big games on O. The Lakers have secured Houston’s pick for him, which was the primary benefit of the deal, so I don’t see much point in having him around for the rest of the losses.
As to Clarkson, he looks to me like he can have a career as a combo guard off the bench and yes, obviously he should be playing.
>I’m not a Scott apologist by any means. But I don’t think he’s nearly as clueless as some of the commenters here seem to indicate.
Like I said when he got hired, there is a pretty vocal subset of the fanbase that was mocking Scott as soon as his name came up, and it includes people who have big internet megaphones so that was predictable. And of course fans see Scott every night, so he is easy to go at. I would have preferred that the FO hire someone with no exp and let the guy see what he can do, and I frankly don’t think Scott is much of a coach. But IMO Byron is getting hammered on more than he should be (D’Antoni did as well, and I defended him some that first year) because, like Ronnie Price, Byron came here with a track record. The KBros, whose piece I linked above, have been doing some of that with Scott, but I notice that they avoid that in the piece, and instead focus on the FO and the roster.
bryan S. says
Clarkson was great. Great move to buy the second right pick and draft him. (Wait, did the Lakers do something right?) Tank You et al, he is *not* nor never will be a shooting guard. Too small and will get overpowered. As a pg, he has excellent size, great quickness and an emerging gear box which he displayed last night. He’s going to get better and better. Nash described him as a “sponge” (Damn Nash!).
What I looked most was Clarkson’s ability to recover defensively. There were a couple of sequences where his quickness was remarkable (thinking of his near block on Parker).
Scott playing Price ahead of Lin reeks of the shameful handling of Pau and Kaman by D’Antoni.
J C says
Rr
Cockfight article – best post ever.
Chearn says
Forgot- rr, that 3:30 in the morning cockfight is priceless.
One reason I desired Nash to earn his salary with the Lakers as a guru to Clarkson. If Clarkson possessed Nash’s ability to probe the defense and dish off timely passes as a pg along with his size and athleticism, he’d be a phenomenal floor general for the Lakers. The kid is hungry and doesn’t mind engaging Kobe or Nash in conversation to pick their brains. That speaks volumes about the baby faced kid with wide eyes.
bryan S. says
rr:
Thanks for that link. So true. I think informed fans must also acknowledge the TWC deal as a factor in the Lakers desire to field a competitive team for viewership numbers. There is definitely pressure from that end. But that as it may, the Emperor has no clothes–and no one believes otherwise. We are down to the studs and personally, that gives me hope.
Does Kaminsky’s piece make him a persona non grata on twc? Prolly.
LKK says
Great “cockfight” article! Thanks rr. One thought really struck home with me. That’s the analogy comparing the Lakers’ rebuilding process to a get rich quick scheme. So, so true.
rr says
JC, bryan s:
Glad you liked the read. The KBros are pretty astute observers of the Lakers’ scene IMO.
Robert says
bryan s: “the Emperor has no clothes–and no one believes otherwise. We are down to the studs and personally, that gives me hope. ” Can you reconcile the first part of that with the second part? The emperor comment means you do not have too much confidence in the FO. The down to the studs part means we have hit rock bottom. And then you close with hope. So we have nothing but studs and we have the same architect and carpenter as before. How does this give you hope? I am curious, because I agree with you on the emperor and the studs part : )
Robert says
rr: Yes the Kbros are pretty astute and they were not too complimentary of the FO plans (or lack thereof). They spoke of trading anything that was not nailed down (Lin and Hill specifically). They spoke of this like it was obvious, which it is. Are we going to do it? Wasn’t trading Pau, and Kaman obvious last year? Doing something before DH walked the year before? Just because the Kbros (and us) see it as obvious does not mean the FO does.
PurpleBlood says
Mid,
your post after last night´s game was a welcomed breath of fresh air. nice goin´
___
rr,
i´ll myself to the list of those who thanked you for the link to the KBros article
___
Robert,
for me personally, and maybe you´ll agree, the silver lining (and it´s an excrutiatingly thin sliver i´m talking about here) with regard to Mamba´s newly-revealed nagging R cuff injury is that – as Chearn noted – his plummeting shooting % was strictly physical and not (NOT) an ugly, premature, sudden display of the decline of a legend.
thus, i believe, Kobe still Rules! 😉
Anonymous says
Robert:
I’m afraid you’re reading your arguments (JB as Emperor) into my remarks. In saying the “emperor has no clothes” I meant that with Kobe out and their woeful record, there is no reason to try to win to or maintain the pretense of trying to win. To paraphrase the insurance ad, “Lakers need to tank and keep their pick–everybody knows that.” With this unequivocally clear, the best strategy is to play young players and develop them as keepers or assets. No wants to watch Price or Boozer lead the charge. Any fans still watching will tune in to see Clarkson, Lin, Davis, Black and Kelly get the chance to improve. (The only danger here is that unleashed, these pups might win a few games that would be better as losses–and this begs the conspiratorial argument–maybe Byron is a great tank commander!) So there it is, Robert: it’s time to lose so that we can win again. No more dancing with our aging superstar. To hell with TWC and disgruntled season ticket holders! Ground up, dude.
Robert says
Purple: Check out Chearn rockin out with the Stones. BTW I have seen the Who a couple times with Starkey – last time as in Vegas.
Chearn: Nice. However the Scott bashers do not care about roster. It is all Byron’s fault. Especially now that KB can’t be blamed.
George: Exactly – he is interim as I said before he was hired. No reason to get rid of him unless a big free agent is willing to come here and wants a specific coach. But if it is going to be another wash out next year, then Scott is the guy. A loyal Laker who can take the heat. With regard to your foundation point: So we have spent 4 years selecting a building site, and we are now getting ready to lay a foundation? At this rate, the roof should go on in the 22nd century
Baylor Fan says
If Lin is on the trading block, then why not run a Lin-centric offense and let him show what he can do. His defense is not nearly as bad as the advice he is getting on how to play defense. He is allowed to wander several feet from his man presumably as a help defender. Except that he is too far away to be of help and leaves his man wide open for a pass. However, even with improved play, Darius has already pointed out the difficulties the Lakers would have in getting much in return.
Mark says
George: If anything this is certain: even if Kobe plays next year, he can’t be counted on to carry the team. That page has turned 18 months before the FO counted on. I can only hope that Jim has been drawing up and refining all sorts of plans about making the Lakers a winning team again. Because time to act starts with this years trading deadline. There is no pass until the summer of 2016.
—
I think Laker nation is in agreement. It was wrong for management to backburner the needs of the team these last two years. There is no way that winning was at the forefront. And all of the rhetoric from the FO about Laker pride etc was painful for any knowledgeable fan to take.
Kobe was a security blanket and it’s now been ripped away. It’s time to move forward. No one expects championships in the next few years but it’s time to make progress.
Rob Westbrook says
If Kobe’s been dealing with rotator cuff tendonitis this whole season, then i can’t type what I want to say to Byron Scott right now. Should’ve limited his minutes much sooner and earlier. One of the worst coaches ever. I don’t care if he’s starting Clarkson now finally.
karen says
FO says no negative comments by laker commentators, then why did they allow big james and those cronies and magic to savage mda.
bryan S. says
Roberto: That’s me @ 5:00 pm.–Bryan
Anonymous says
Karen
That phone call occurred 2 weeks ago.
Ko says
Mark
Kobe was ca ching. Multi billion dollare deal, value by Forbes of $2.6 billion and in spite of bad decisions in FO, trainers and scouting fired and complete mismanagement they still made $117 million last year.
This team will have the worst record in Laker history, worst TV ratings in 20 years, questionable future, few draft choices yet will still make over $100 million for the Clampettt’s.
Let’s stop kidding ourselves, it’s only about the money for Jed and Daisy May. Hence Kobe contract and playing him into the ground 2 of the last 3 years. Sad and bad.
Craig W. says
Sigh!
Now to find a place to talk, instead of constantly complaining.
R says
Craig W. January 24, 2015 at 8:27 pm
Sigh!
Now to find a place to talk, instead of constantly complaining.
——————————–
Craig, constant complaining IS a form of talk and seems fully justified at this time.
As previously stated, Nick Young is now the “star” of the Lakers as currently constructed. The face of the franchise, other than Nick Young, has suffered a season-ending injury for the third season in a row. There’s no joy in Mudville ….
Don Ford says
Craig’s usually got the right attitude, but now the cupboard really is bare.
Rooting for Randle’s development got scotched early, and even the shiny Kobe distraction is vaporized.
The paucity of talent now lays bare the vacuity of the Buss team … gulp…
lil pau says
Enough already!
I really wish the retroactive hand-wringing about what the Lakers ‘obviously should have done’ in terms of moving assets approaching – and following – the end of last season would have greater nuance than suggesting anyone in the front office is a ‘moron’ or intimating that moving pieces is a simple as picking up the phone. to wit:
Pau: first of all, they did trade him, brilliantly for CP3 plus salary relief (!), but it was vetoed. okay, then what? It was a huge, expiring deal. Do you sign and trade? That means getting Pau’s consent and finding a trading partner who wants Pau for pretty much max money (more than he ultimately got, significantly), and what do the Lakers get back? Expiring contracts or ongoing contracts? If ongoing, are they players the Lakers really want? Keep in mind Pau’s about to be a free agent, no way in the world we get a franchise player or a 1st round pick. So, at best, maybe we get 2 second round picks, plus a player we want plus a player we don’t want on a bad contract we have to ‘eat’, both of whom are signed for 4 years. Or other teams call our blluff (and perhaps this is what in fact happened) and wait for Pau to become a free agent, thinking they have a better shot of luring him to their team if they keep all their best players, rather than trading someone good to get him.
Dwight: Also expiring. A potential face of the franchise. The Lakers tried like hell to keep him, as they should have. It didn’t work. I don’t blame the FO here except for possibly not firing MDA as an overture to DH. Perhaps they offered to in their meeting, we’ll never know. And what were we supposed to get for DH without a S&T? Not much. Okay, what about with a S&T? He ended up in Houston… at best, maybe, we might have had a shot at Parsons, but has anyone seen his statline this year? He’s wildly overpaid and now has 4 years left on his deal. Does that sound good to anyone?
Hill: 9M. Possibly a tradeable asset, but no way worth a 1st rounder, so a 2nd rounder and what kind of player? Keep in mind no one wants to let rookie studs go under the new CBA, and the salaries wouldn’t match anyway, so some other player would have to be included. How many expiring deals do you think would match? How many 3-4 year deals would you want to absorb to get that 2nd round pick?
Kamen: I concede this is probably the best argument against the FO’s record. I could imagine a contending team giving up a couple of 2nd rounders for him, and (this is CRITICAL) he didn’t make much $ so perhaps there was a deal to be found without the Lakers having to take back contracts, just picks. That said, lets say the Lakers did pull the trigger on Kamen for a 2nd rounder or 2, which critics here would be silenced? It would be laughed at as a drop in the bucket.
Lin: They already won on this deal, getting a 1st rounder. They can either resign him or let him come off the books; I don’t think they’re going to get much for him (see Darius’ argument a few days ago about the ramifications of his ‘poison pill’ contract). And if they do, it’s a big cap hit, so we’re talking players coming back with the picks. You think it’s going to be easy to match salary, our roster needs, a team with picks to trade all to get Lin who is at best a poor-passing 2nd PG on an expiring deal?
This isn’t trading baseball cards or selling a used car. One can’t say ‘we got nothing for player X’ and instantly conclude of course it would have been better and a simple matter to have gotten something (‘something’s better than nothing, right’?). No, nothing is better than something, if the something is a mediocre player on a multiyear deal and the nothing is enormous cap space to chase FAs. Personally, as awful as the product is now, I’d rather the Lakers stay flexible with 1 year contracts than saddle themselves with a bunch of marginal players on 3-4 year deals.
To summarize, wiping the foam from my mouth, It is incredibly hard to pull off a deal of any kind, harder under the CBA, harder still when the contract one is offloading is huge, and still even harder again if it’s an expiring deal, especially if the potential recipient thinks they have a shot at the player in free agency. Anyone who wants to quibble with the FO, fine, the team is terrible so fire away, but please argue your point with a modicum of understanding of the complexities that are actually involved, rather than suggesting you could have waltzed into the FO and made things happen in matter of hours.
In the interim…. anyone want to buy some tickets?
karen says
As bad as lakers are, can’t wait til the next game, i think clarkson will be a future star, but hate how they are treating lin, a genuine nice guy
Hale says
Chearn,
The Nash absence is peculiar. It speaks badly of the F.O. or him but its rarely brought up by media types. Zero interaction with the team? It’s like his entire Laker stint has been as a sleeper cell agent for the Suns.
J C says
Hale and Chearn
My theory on the Nash disappearance:
He wanted to play out his final season cuz he’s a lifetime hoops junkie. But the Lakers put him on the shelf and said, take the money and keep quiet. You’re ‘injured.’
Who injures himself so badly that he’s out for the season lifting a suitcase?
Nobody, that’s who.
The bean-counters in the Lakers FO felt ripped off paying the final year of Nash’s contract so they wanted to recoup some of it via the ‘injury exception.’
(Completely forgetting that fans would still love to watch Nash give 20-24 min per game)
So they gave Nash his pink slip.
Nash rightfully felt robbed of his final season on the hardwood and effectively told the team, ‘ok, I’ll take the money and I’ll shut up about it, but don’t expect me to come to the games in a suit and tie and help Byron coach this hot mess of a roster when I could still be playing. I’m going golfing.’
Jc says
JC
That is exactly what happened 100%. Throw Pau, a top trainer, 3 long time scouts, Phil Jackson into that story and you have the current picture of the Jimmy Lakers. Counting more enemies then wins!
Lil pau says
I agree with JC’s read on Nash. Back injuries are pesky in that they recur so players are in and out of the lineup, but I’ve never heard of a back issue resulting in a missed season or anything close to that kind of prognosis unless the person is in a wheelchair or something. even a severely herniated disk responds to rest, then treatment.
Mark says
Don Ford: The paucity of talent now lays bare the vacuity of the Buss team … gulp…
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Not often that I need to consult a dictionary on this blog. ‘Vacuity’ is an apt word for the Jim Buss FO to date. The upside is that Kobe’s recent injury should provide clarity for the FO — as the KBro article states there is no more past to cling to.
There may be a few more lean years but the hope is we begin to see a foundation of young talent forming. The silver bullet we have is cap space – the rebuild can be accelerated by bringing in key FA’s.
I am actually excited to finally be able to move forward. The concern is with Jim, his recent track record is not good. However, he has a chance to redeem himself as the future starts now.
Craig W. says
lil pau,
Outstanding comments.
I, in no way, want to excuse the front office for mistakes, but managing a team in a monopoly league with a restrictive CBA is not a cakewalk. It is a lot more fun reading to look at what we can do from here on out and voice your ideas. Of course it is a good idea to have a basic understanding of the rules when doing this.
Personally, I want to see who we might want to keep going forward. That is what the remaining games should be used for. If a trade presents itself, then everyone should be available, but we only do it if there is an upside for us. IMO, we are going to have to draft or sign any future stars, because we don’t have enough to bring in anything more than rotation players in a trade.
We need to establish our rotation and 2nd tier players and try to keep them, because that will make any rebuild that much quicker. That’s where the Jordan Clarksons, Wayne Ellingtons, and Ed Davis’ are on the scale of this team.
J C says
Lil Pau
Your ‘enough already!’ post is the kind of writing that makes this site a treasure.
Nice work.
Trip says
Lil Pau – regarding your comments above:
Danny Ainge was arguably in a worse situation with the Celtics 2 years ago. He now has some young foundational players and 19 draft picks over the next four years. Of course, Boston had to admit to a rebuilding process which the Buss kids could never bring themselves to embrace.
Yes, like the Lakers, the Celtics are currently awful. However, I think Celtics fans go to sleep each night a lot more optimistic about the future than most Laker fans.
Hale says
JC and lil Pau,
Your views make infinitely more sense than the silence. I couldn’t stand the Shaq/Kobe drama and they keys to a winning team. This garbage over the last few years has been excruciating. I guess the Nash thing will reveal itself in full over time.
George says
Lil pau – so glad you clarified this for us. The Lakers’ plight is not because the FO is inept it’s because the CBA is too difficult. As Trip pointed out above, Ainge figured out a way to navigate the complexities of the CBA to Boston’s advantage.
Let’s be honest, unless KLove opts out and signs with the Lakers the last two seasons and all the assets that walked out the door for nothing are huge black eyes for the FO.
bryan S. says
Lil pau: Please re-post this as needed. (There are a few guys here who’ll need it to see it every 2-3 days.)
rr says
lil Pau,
Here are some problems with your narrative:
1. It is easy enough to write off fans as not really knowing what is going on, but then you need to acknowledge the other side pf that as well: you are a fan, and so you really don’t know what’s going on, either (unless you have some connections to the Lakers’ FO and know its inner workings). So, it may well be that the Lakers’ FO is as lost and as clueless as some of its detractors say it is. This is the general problem with process arguments–we don’t really see much of the process, except in snippets, filtered through the media. So, we are left to mostly judge results and we can judge decisions at the time. And, again, it doesn’t really matter if Jim Buss is actually a smart guy and a victim of an horrific run of bad luck. The NBA is full of smart guys. What matters is that the FO’s decisions work and move the team forward, and as long as people defending the FO need to post lengthy, convoluted explanations for those decisions, that means that the decisions aren’t working.
2. As to Howard, he has said that he went to the FO and told them that he wanted to play for Phil. They hired D’Antoni anyway. Obviously, we don’t know that Howard would have stuck around even with Phil here, and we don’t know if Phil would have even taken the job. But while they may have “tried like hell” all the information we have indicates that no one except Mitch and Jeanie, including Jim Buss, D’Antoni, Kobe, Nash, and Pau–got along with Howard or connected with him. Some of that is on Howard, but some of it isn’t. The billboards don’t make up for that.
3. Hill: If he is that hard to trade at 9M a year, then they shouldn’t have given him 9M a year. The Hill deal didn’t look terrible at the time because they can get out of it after a year, but it was never any kind of positive move. Hill just isn’t that good.
4. You left out Nick Young’s deal, and Kobe’s deal, both of which were very questionable at best and fly directly in the face of the supposed commitment to “financial flexibility.” That was clear at the time.
In the KBros piece I linked, they said that the Lakers are “neither fish nor fowl” and that is basically what I meant when I used the term “semi-tank” a couple of weeks ago. The FO didn’t make a full commitment to either trying to compete for a lower playoff seed or fully tanking/building, so they created, as I said, a Frankenstein’s Monster of a team with mismatched parts, and the villagers have grabbed the pitchforks and lit the torches.
Looking ahead, people defending the FO always pretty much come back to the same place: a big score in FA is coming if we just stay patient, so marginal players and mediocre name players on short deals is just part of a bigger plan that will bear fruit when the moment is right. Looking at the actual guys who are going to be FAs, the overall NBA landscape, and what appears to the be the perception of the Lakers’ organization right now, I am not seeing it. But I hope that Jim Buss is right and I am wrong.
minorthreatt says
Great post by lil pau. Those points, and Darius’s summary of the problems moving Hill/Lin, are a sobering reminder of the difficulty we face in getting fair value, or indeed any value, for our alleged trade chips.
In defense of hand-wringing, however (and without any knowledge of what actually went down in negotiations), I think the Pau/Phoenix situation sounded like a case of the FO being slow to recognize the changing valuation of picks. IIRC, we had at least a partial match with the Okafor expiring; the coverage of negotiations suggested we held out for a Number One. If we did, I think that was a mistake, disappointing as the return would have seemed then.
(Don’t forget the Bynum trade that wasn’t, as well, which reportedly fell apart because the Lakers wanted an “asset.”) http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10392533/phoenix-suns-explore-deal-los-angeles-lakers-pau-gasol
rr says
(There are a few guys here who’ll need it to see it every 2-3 days.)
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That cuts both ways, so I will re-post the “cockfight” piece every 2-3 days then, too. As I say in the post above, it doesn’t really matter if Jim Buss is a genius in a run of bad luck. What matters is the team moving forward and decisions making sense/working. Until those things start happening consistently, people trying to defend the FO really don’t have much to work from.
George says
Post stuck in moderation reporting as I think it’s relevant to the current discussion and quite frankly contains nothing that needs to be moderated.
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Lil pau – so glad you clarified this for us. The Lakers’ plight is not because the FO is inept it’s because the CBA is too difficult. As Trip pointed out above, Ainge figured out a way to navigate the complexities of the CBA to Boston’s advantage.
Let’s be honest, unless KLove opts out and signs with the Lakers the last two seasons and all the assets that walked out the door for nothing are huge black eyes for the FO.
KenOak says
Editing previous draft rankings…this is pretty funny.
http://deadspin.com/espns-chad-ford-has-been-retroactively-editing-draft-bo-1681631642/1681658049/+bubbaprog
Sorry for the completely off-topic post, but I thought that this is pretty funny. Xavier Henry and Devan Ebanks got re-ranked a little lower. Heh.
rr says
It would be laughed at as a drop in the bucket.
_________________
You’re missing something: Young and Kaman had big games late in the season that won meaningless games for the Lakers and hurt the team in the ping-pong ball-o-rama. Now, it may turn out that Randle is the guy to have when all is said and done. Embiid and Parker are both out for the year, but those games did reduce the team’s already slim chances to land Wiggins, and Utah ended up with Exum. Exum was not NBA-ready, as was to be expected, but OTOH he didn’t just have surgery to remove the screw from his foot, and I know that a lot of fans wanted him here.
rr says
Editing previous draft rankings…this is pretty funny.
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Yeah, I saw that yesterday. Bizarre story if Ford actually did it.
Matt says
I have a hard time understanding those who defend the FO so vehemently. As if the Lakers current situation (genuinely regarded as having the least amount of talent and assets in the league) is some natural/expected cycle and not due to a string of FO decisions which made little or no basketball sense.
FO apologists always point to the veto as the turning point and absolve Jim for anything that comes after. I heard a story on this site which basically laid the veto at Jim’s feet as we’ll. when the Paul trade went down Jim announced it to the media instead of passing it through league channels. Jeannie was in New York for an owners meeting and was with Stern. Had Jim worked with Jeannie and Stern from the onset and delayed going to the media it was possible to get ahead of the public outcry of those owners that complained. In other words it was not defacto that the trade needed to be vetoed.
I gave yet to see anyone counter Trip’s comments above. The celtics were capped out and had Allen, Garnett and Pierce (all past their prime) on the roster. Somehow their GM was able to turn that situation into some 19 draft picks, which I believe contains 10 first rounders, over the next four years.
Yet, we Lakers’ fans rejoice in a deal (Lin) which will yield us one late first round pick. If the CBA was too difficult for the FO to work with Jeannie should have brought some smarter folks on board.
LKK says
Basics such as scouting is where the Lakers need to begin. A team without a decent center and nobody advocated for a tryout for Hassan Whiteside? Guy has 6 blocks today against the Bulls and really appears to have some upside. And please don’t tell me all the other teams missed him too. I don’t care about the other teams. I care about the Lakers.
rr says
That’s where the Jordan Clarksons, Wayne Ellingtons, and Ed Davis’ are on the scale of this team.
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Clarkson is different than Davis and Ellington–Davis is 25, and Ellington is 27, while Clarkson is only 22. I don’t think Clarkson’s ceiling is especially high, but the other two are pretty much known commodities. Ellington has done a good job this year, but he is a journeyman roster filler, like Wesley Johnson. I like Davis, but he looks to me like a 3rd big and I don’t see him getting much if any better.
Baylor Fan says
The Chad Fraud story is sobering for those of us who use ESPN as a resource for evaluating talent. It appears that appearing on the top of draft boards is a function of the PR skills of the player’s agent as well as the player’s talent. It would be easy for ESPN to debunk Deadspin and they haven’t yet.
LKK says
I’ve about had it with today’s style of NBA basketball. All 3 pointers and no movement towards the basket. The last play before the half of the OKC/Cavs game is a prime example: Ibaka bricked a 3 when if he had cut to the basket he would have had an uncontested dunk. Too many big men are falling in love with the perimeter.
Chris J says
The cockfight story was well written and well thought, though the writer did lose me for a moment when he wrote, “It was a smart gamble, but the Lakers lost big” in reference to the Nash trade.
I’m not nearly as critical of the front office as some here are, since the way the league operates today is vastly different than before, and some still seem to believe if Dr. Buss were alive all would somehow be perfect. I don’t believe that at all.
That aside, to me the Nash deal was the single worst trade in franchise history. I did not like the deal at the time but hoped for the best. Unfortunately, it turned out even worse than my worst fears. Signing Kobe’s extension was the other real killer.
Water under the bridge now, and the way to move forward is clear — trade what you can in Hill and Lin; bench vets like Boozer and Price and let’s see what Clarkson and Kelly can do with minutes. This season is lost, and the prime goal should now be rebuilding with the youth in hand and hopefully, via a Top Five pick and a healed Julius Randle come the training camp.
Robert says
Matt: “I have a hard time understanding those who defend the FO so vehemently.” You and me both. And further they insist on implying that somehow the pro FO argument is so much more logical and rational than criticizing them. Rather than simply replying back and forth with points, there is always some implication that people that criticize the FO are irrational. People have been saying the “sky is not falling” for over 3 years and now that the sky has fallen they are still saying it.
KenOak says
@rr
The 3:30 am article was “Gold Jerry!”
This is where we are as a franchise. I still have hope that we can get a couple of great young players in this draft to pair with Randle. Then, in 2016 with wide-open cap space, we can make a run at a superstar or two. All is not lost, but It’s going to take a lot of work and some Lakers luck…
Robert says
Chrs J: If we had a 50 year old Jerry Buss – absolutely we would be better off.
Lil pau: I could immediately improve on what Jim is doing if I owned the Lakers. I would turn over the GM function to Mitch. I would stay out of it. Unless you think Mitch needs help, then I would replace him. It would be clear I owned the team as I would not bring any relatives into this hypothetical purchase, nor into my employment. I would give a few press conferences a year where I wore decent clothes, and expressed confidence in my GM. Other than that I would do a lot of partying, and posing for photographs with celebrities and such. Anyone calls me for a trade I would refer them to Mitch. I think I am extremely qualified to execute this plan (especially the partying part) and it is the exact plan the Lakers need from their owner : )