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Preview & Chat: The Boston Celtics

by


Boston Celtics vs Los Angeles Lakers

Sun Feb 22, 9:30 PM EST – NBAt, CSNE, TWSN

Line: BOS -3.0, O/U: 202.5

Staples Center – Los Angeles, CA

Recent Matchups

Ranks

  • 104 ORTG (20)
  • 105.7 DRTG (14)
  • 95.9 Pace (4)
  • 74.8 DRB% (16)
  • 0.521 TS% (22)

Latest Results

Leaders

  • Jeff Green 17.6 ppg
  • Jared Sullinger 8.1 rpg
  • Rajon Rondo 10.8 apg
  • Kelly Olynyk 0.7 bpg
  • Rajon Rondo 1.7 spg

Ranks

  • 103.9 ORTG (22)
  • 111.4 DRTG (29)
  • 94.2 Pace (12)
  • 75 DRB% (14)
  • 0.512 TS% (27)

Latest Results

Leaders

  • Kobe Bryant 22.3 ppg
  • Jordan Hill 8.1 rpg
  • Kobe Bryant 5.6 apg
  • Ed Davis 1.2 bpg
  • Ronnie Price 1.5 spg

When I wrote about the first time the Lakers played the Celtics back in December, I was fully on board with the idea that the Lakers should do everything they could to win the game. The rivalries between these two organizations would always matter more than ideas about lottery position and draft picks:

If the Lakers want to keep this pick they need to lose a lot of games. The more the better, some would say.

None of that applies tonight, though. No, when the Lakers play the Celtics, I don’t care about the future pick. I don’t care about accelerating a rebuild. I don’t care for your logic. Nope. Not at all. You see, these are the Celtics. I don’t want the Lakers to lose to them. Not today, tomorrow, or next week. Not ever. As I said above, if the only games the Lakers won all season were against the C’s, it would take some of the sting off. This is what a rivalry does.

Of course, when both teams are bad — and the C’s are pretty much equally bad right now — some would say the luster of this rivalry is removed. Yes, these organizations have 33 banners between them but right now they are cellar dwellers. Of all the games on tonight, this is one a lot of fans will actively avoid. Watching Kobe and Rondo is nice and all, but when it’s all said and done a Carlos Boozer/Jared Sullinger duel isn’t something people are using up their Friday night on. Again, I see this perspective. But, again, I do not care. This is appointment viewing for me. This matters.

Let’s be clear – a big part of me still feels this way and will always feel this way whenever these teams play. I don’t care if none of the names associated with the roots of the rivalry are gone. When I see that green jersey with Celtics across the front my mind remembers all the great games, all the disappointments, all the triumphs, and I just want the Lakers to be ahead on the scoreboard when the game is over.

However, we are also at a point in the season where I am nearly tapped out when it comes to how much more I can truly be invested in the actual games. As each day passes, my focus starts to shift more and more to whether the Lakers will be able to keep their draft pick, what prospects will be at the top of the draft, what a viable plan in free agency would actually look like, and how the team can actually start to take positive steps forward in a meaningful way.

And, with the way this roster is constructed, the injuries they have suffered, and the tactics employed by this coach there is only so much of that coming from the product on the floor. While this is frustrating, it is, more than anything else, making it easier to distance myself from the games themselves. I am sure I am not alone here.

The games will go on, though. And, tonight, the Lakers will play the Celtics in a game that means more to those worried about draft picks than to those concerned with how many banners hang in the rafters of Staples Center or the Garden in Boston. Hopefully in the next few seasons, the pendulum will tilt away from the latter end of the spectrum with games that once again keep us invested in the action on the floor.

Where you can watch: 6:30pm start time on TWC Sportsnet. Also listen on ESPN Radio 710AM Los Angeles.


Reader Interactions

Comments

  3. Lakafan says

    12 guys played in 1st half. Lol where’s clarkson??? he needs to be playing at least 15 minutes per half!! Scott driving that tank. And jelly still playing the 3???

  4. Ko says

    And for the best impersonation as a NBA player?

    1-Sacre
    2-Kelly
    3-Johnson

    NO in a huge surprise its Laker Mangement!

    Yea. Yea. Yea. Speach!

  5. Hale says

    Celt’s coach looks like he’s fresh out of high school. I can’t watch the fourth. Celtic hate vs lottery security is too much to conflict to bear.

  11. Lakafan says

    Scott is definitely the right coach for this team this year since better to lose, why the heck would u not foul there???

  12. Ko says

    Say what you want about the team, but Scott has no out of bound plays and is once again too old school dumb to foul.

    Reason the guy has been Loser 6 years in a row,

    They lose every lead and every game in last 2 minutes. Just a bad coach,

  13. LKK says

    Oh my… The Lakers can’t even win the games that they have already won. And the worst part is that a part of me was happy when Bradley sent the game into OT! Strange times.

  17. AusPhil says

    I echo many of the sentiments here: tanking can wait to beat Boston.

    Now back to locking in that top 3 pick…

  19. LKK says

    Looks like the team will pull it out in OT. It must be numbing for the players to lose so much. I feel good for them in that regard. Always good to beat the Green Slime. But….

  21. R says

    Tim: “Now they can resume their drive for a top 5 pick.”

    AusPhil: “Now back to locking in that top 3 pick…”

    Now be honest; you know nothing less than the number one pick will satisfy.

  23. BigCitySid says

    Random NBA stats:

    – Last night vs Denver, Russell Westbrook had 21 pts, 17 assist, & 8 rebs. From Elias: Russell Westbrook has played just 27 minutes… DID YOU KNOW… The only other player in NBA history with at least 20 points, 15 assists and 5 rebounds in under 30 minutes is Magic Johnson who did it twice (3/21/84 @ Kansas City and 3/3/89 vs. Indiana.)

    – Nice week for LeBron. He passed two future HOF’s on respective NBA career list in fewer games:

    1) James (#22) passed A.I. (#23) on the NBA all time scoring list 24,383 to 24,368 in 25 fewer games. In addition:

    2) James (#28) passed Kobe (#30) on the NBA all time assist list 6,131 to 6,122 in 392 fewer games.

    All time stats via Basketball Ref.

  24. Todd says

    The Lakers have not sewn up a top 5 pick yet. All the more reson to find a way to lose these games. No sense in winning meaningless games (at this point they are all menaingless) and giving away our top pick this year.

    Even without the top five pick the Lakers will be better next year with Randle, the Rocket’s pick and minor moves by the FO. Yes, I understand that if we give our pick to Philly this year we keep our own pick next year. My point is, why win and risk losing a top pick this year only to keep our pick and draft in the high teens next year.

    We should not give up any opportunity to lose a game.

  25. Aaron says

    I woke up this AM to the taunting of my celtics friend. We just can’t seem to beat this team when we need a win or lose when we need a loss. Unreal. They have had our number the last two years.

  26. Stuart says

    Todd: We should not give up any opportunity to lose a game.
    __

    Sadly, that is the only thing we can do, is lose. We have an opportunity to select a franchise changing player in this draft. The same type of player won’t be available in the late teens next year. (And no, I don’t think we can count on a repeat of 1996 draft when Jerry West traded Divac for Kobe — this version of the Lakers does not have West or a trade chip like Vlade).

  27. Vasheed says

    I had seen a segment on tv about the Lakers schedule vs other teams in the lottery race. The Lakers are scheduled against more sub-500 teams than their competitors which might suggest they could climb somewhat out of their current position. Time will tell.

  28. George says

    From my perspective our current situation is in line with my expectations. I had little faith that Kobe could stay healthy, I thought Fr. Time had already made that clear with back to back season ending injuries.

    I’m not here to criticize the FO on all of the past decisions (most of which have blown up in their faces). Lord knows that goes on here often enough. They did what they did in an effort to milk another banner out of Kobe. Although, the FO did make some coaching decisions that were not consistent with using Kobe or his teammates to the fullest (MB and MDA) — so even I will scratch my head on those.

    With 28 games to go in this season its clear what we need to do – lose. So count me in the group that endorses every loss and cringes with every win.

  29. bryan S. says

    If I lived in SoCal: I would organize a demonstration at the Laker headquarters with as many livid fans as I could muster, holding signs like: Lose to Win, Get the Pick, etc. preferably wearing purple and gold tank tops. Alert media to get the requisite coverage. Somehow we need an outraged fan base to let the FO know that more winning is unacceptable! Guys, it’s on you.

  30. Calvin Chang says

    Sim Bhullar blocked 11 shots last night. Come on Lakers – give this guy a 10-day contract and see what he can do against NBA level competition. If he’s swatting away hook-shots from 6 ft 10 players in the D league, let’s see if he can do it against real NBA competition. You have nothing to lose by trying this big guy out.

  31. harold says

    While I accept the logic of losing, I don’t think I will ever be happy with losing nor would I necessarily cringe with every win.

    Also, even at our darkest hours and amidst the direst needs for losses, a win against the Celtics is worth it, however meaningless and ultimately disadvantageous.

  32. Todd says

    harold: Also, even at our darkest hours and amidst the direst needs for losses, a win against the Celtics is worth it, however meaningless and ultimately disadvantageous.
    —
    These are ‘Bizarro’ times indeed. Whether you are of the camp that say the FO has bungled things or believe that our current state is a product of some natural cyclical rhythm – the fact is we are where we are. To stop this madness we have to lose.

    So weird as it is sounds the Leprechauns in Boston are actually happy that we beat them. Because a Lakers victory makes it more difficult for us to keep our pick, which we must keep in order to get better.

    Just lose Baby

  35. Robert says

    Todd: Let’s pretend you (a member of the bungled camp), and a member of the “cyclical rhythm” camp just woke up from a hard night of partying. You both feel terrible and you start to argue how you got into this mess. However you both agree that you need aspirin, water, and rest (in other words – you need to go into the tank). That agreement is simple. The question is what is going .
    to happen when you wake up?
    Lil pau: You are listing Byron as a Celtic, which is a pretty serious insult for a Laker who has rings. On what are you basing this?

  36. lil pau says

    Robert, did you watch last night’s game? If so, then I would argue that no further explanation is necessary. If not, check out the highlights, especially in the last 3 minutes of regulation. It’s one thing to manipulate personnel in service of a tank, it’s quite another to coach in a manner beneath a weekend league’s degree of competence. Stevens looked like Red Auerbach, Phil, and Pop wrapped into one compared to Scott’s pathetic display.

  37. Baylor Fan says

    I support the opinions of anyone who pays to go to Lakers games and then goes to the games and does not leave early.

  38. rr says

    it’s quite another to coach in a manner beneath a weekend league’s degree of competence

    1. What do you think the Lakers’ W/L record would be with a competent coach?
    2. And one more time: Scott came here with a long track record, the Lakers knew him already, and they interviewed him multiple times.

    The funny thing about this stuff is that the Lakers actually won the game.

  39. J C says

    The funny thing about this stuff is that the Lakers actually won the game
    __

    Right??
    What’s equally funny is that half the debate here is WHETHER WE SHOULD EVEN BE TRYING TO WIN.

    As I lifetime Laker fan, even I’m confused by this paradox.

  40. J C says

    Calvin,
    Sam Bhullar is TOO good right now.
    The Lakers are planning to add impact players as soon as their draft position is secured.

  41. bryan S. says

    rr:

    1. That is another question, and does not invalidate lil pau’s observations re: in game coaching. ( He’s right too.)

  42. Aaron says

    Bryon cares about the Lakers. He was a great hire. He wants what’s best for the franchise. He desserves a lot of love from the fan base. But people don’t know what real service is. Very sad. I love Scott as much as l hate MDA for the same thing. MDA when we needed losses said “F You!” to the Lakers and more inportantly our fans. Listen. We don’t know if we had more ping pong balls if we get Wiggins. Who knows. We know he intentionally cost us a lot of ping pong balls. I dont think people realize how big a slap in the face that is to everyone not named MDA and the players. I am equally as upset at him for that as I am for ending Kobe Bryants career.

  44. rr says

    1. That is another question, and does not invalidate lil pau’s observations re: in game coaching. ( He’s right too.)

    Didn’t say or imply that it did. The point is context. I didn’t see the game, but I do know that the Lakers won it. So whatever mistakes Scott may have made in the last three minutes, he guided one of the NBA’s weakest rosters to a rare W last night.

    Some people go off on Scott’s small tactical decisions all the time, without acknowledging either the context of the team’s roster, or the context of the hire.

  45. Mid-Wilshire says

    For those of you interested in the exploits of prospective high draft picks, see below:

    JAHLIL OKAFOR

    Last game (2/21 vs. Clemson) — DNP (sprained left ankle)

    Game vs. North Carolina (2/18) — 12 pts. (6-11, 0-6 FTs); 13 rebounds (4 offensive), 3 assists; 5 TOs, 2 steals 1 block in 41 minutes

    D’ANGELO RUSSELL

    Last game (2/22 vs. Michigan) — 16 pts (6-15, 2-6 from three, 2-4 FTs); 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 5 TOs in 34 minutes

    KARL-ANTHONY TOWNS

    Last game (2/22 vs. Clemson) — 19 pts. (8-9, 3-3 FTs); 10 rebounds (3 offensive); 2 assists, 1 TO, 4 blocks in 21 minutes

  46. Robert says

    lil pau: I have unfortunately watched most of the games including last night’s (I do confess to doing other things while they are on of course) and I have attended 3 in person. All 3 times I sat down low enough to see and hear what was going on. While I realize that Byron is not going to get in any books for innovating schemes or sets, he seems to command attention from the players, and is very organized. The bench is also more engaged than in the last couple of years (whenever I think of the bench during the MD years I immediately think of the look of despair on Antawn’s face). I think your weekend league comment is a little harsh, but if it is true, then Byron and anyone involved in hiring him should all be fired immediately, as he has not changed much during his entire career. I think rr’s question is very relevant in that coaches can only influence teams by a reasonable percentage from their talent level. So if the Lakers were predicted 13th or 14th prior to the KB and other injuries, then I think it is reasonable to say that not much was expected. All of this said, Byron is probably not going to be our coach when we re-build into a contender (whenever that will be). I never thought he was going to be. He is a caretaker and is the only qualified person who could possibly want to coach the Lakers. Unlike diehard supporters of our previous coach, if a major FA wants to sign only if Byron leaves, then I will be the first to show him the door. In the meantime – I think he is the right guy for the (undesirable) job.

  48. the other Stephen says

    Houston’s wing depth is amazing. Imagine having Trevor Ariza, Terrence Jones, Josh Smith, Corey Brewer, and KJ McDaniels at your disposal.

  49. Aaron says

    ESPN has little knowledge of what analytics and how much analytics are taking part in each organization. Sorry to burst everyones bubble. Every team keeps what their analytics they use top secret.

  50. BigCitySid says

    -@ rr, you and I read & posted about the same article. It’s a very sad commentary on the front offices of these teams if they do indeed ignore analytics all together.

  51. Vasheed says

    I was skeptical of Scott coming in. I also stated that I did not believe he would be given a particularly long honeymoon as many suggested. I don’t find him to be a great strategist but I find it difficult to also complain that much about him. For all the complaints last year of MDA, Scott is the polar opposite. MDA would change line ups every night, Scott will ride a line up for weeks before making a change. MDA would not communicate what he is trying to do as far coaching, Scott is as clear as day. MDA seemed to alienate his big men, Scott has seemed to be able to keep his guys dialed in in the face of mind numbing losses. Then you get into the fact that really none of the guysplaying for Scott were selected specifically for Scott and his coaching style. I really just don’t see much to complain about Scott other then the team isn’t winning which I just don’t see as a Scott issue.

  52. Darius Soriano says

    This article is from 2012: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/buss-375239-lakers-jim.html?page=2

    Here are a couple of sections block quoted:

    “Kupchak describes Buss as “a student of the game.”

    “We collaborate on everything,” Kupchak said. “Like his dad, he has his opinions on players. Like his dad, he’s good with numbers. And he’s got his own way of looking at the game and how he evaluates players.”

    Buss’ numbers system is constantly tweaked and updated, he said, with separate breakdowns of offense and defense. He mentioned a player’s plus-minus statistic (team points gained or lost while on the court) as an example of something that requires refinement into five-man units and game-situation context.

    “To me, a ridiculous stat is plus-minus,” he said. “I think it’s just useless. I needed to weed out and understand what affects the game of basketball. In the past five years, those applications of numbers came into play where I believe them. It took me years to believe they do have an effect.”

    In the “Moneyball” sports-management era, when talent evaluation has evolved beyond scouts, Buss is taking advantage of his inherent analytical nature and meeting the needs of Lakers management with dot-com-stock timing.”

    Buss has been talking about using in-house analytics for some time. For ESPN, I think, they look at things like the Lakers not having someone at Sloan a couple of years ago or not having a big hire in the FO who is “pro analytics” or not talking about it all the time an an influencer of their decisions as them being “non-believers”. I don’t claim to know how much of an influence analytics are in the team’s front office, but there is information out there that shows the team does use them.

  53. Chearn says

    Mid-Wilshire, I viewed both Okafor and Russell’s games on the 18th and 22nd respectively. I’ve watched Okafor at least five times this season, and he is a very skilled big man that enjoys competing and playing the game. That game against North Carolina was their big rivalry game, so his buddy Jabari Parker was at the game. Might be why he played poorly. Jahlil rolled his ankle when he went up for a contested rebound and landed on an NC player’s foot. The air came out of the arena when he was assisted off the floor. NC had a comfortable lead and held it until Okafor returned to the game. He hobbled through the game, but his presence on the floor disrupted NC and Duke benefited by hitting their 3s to forge a lead and the win. Okafor will have to spend the entire summer healing that ankle, but hopefully he’ll at least stand at the free throw line so he can improve his free throw percentage. Jabari was NBA ready, and so was Jahlil.
    I saw the second half of Russell’s game, and the Buckeye’s were down by double digits. First time seeing D’Angelo play, and the kid is a true pg with excellent form on his 3pt shot and can get to the rim with his dribble. He made several turnovers trying to force the action. His play got the team back in the game, but they still lost.

    I’ve seen several Kentucky games, and I like Towns, he’s an elite runner, makes his free-throws, and finishes around the rim. In addition, and more importantly for the Lakers he’s ready on the defensive end. He’s been inconsistent offensively this season, but so what he’s 19 years old. The Lakers should draft him if he’s available; his game could grow exponentially with training from Kareem.

    If the Lakers land in the top three they would be remiss not drafting a big man.

  54. Anon says

    Darius: To add to your comment, the same ESPN article also has the following: “GM Mitch Kupchak told ESPN.com that SportVU data has “changed this whole business” and that he has brought aboard a group of four employees to interpret the data.”

    So maybe the Lakers should really be in the “one foot in” category, but are dropped to where they are because the Laker’s head coach, B Scott, is a true non-believer. Problem is, that I think we can all agree that B Scott has little to no weight in the long term strategy or planning for the FO. The Cl;ippers, on the other hand, who have a coach who is also a non-believer- who also happens to be their GM involving in the shaping of the future of the franchise, get a pass to the “Skeptics” category, because, you know, uh, Balmer owns them??

    If you ask me, there’s a bit of selective categorization here.

  55. Calvin Chang says

    What happens if the Lakers actually start winning? Looks like they have a soft schedule coming up against teams that are also tanking. Crazy. If they win enough to lose their draft pick (like Phoenix GM thinks), I don’t know if I should be upset or happy for the wins. This current draft lottery rule truly needs to be changed. If losing is really winning, then the Lakers should just waive everyone they don’t plan to keep next year, then sign up me and my rec league friends. We’d gladly play for peanuts, get dunked on, talked trash to, pass the ball to Kelly Clarkson, and guarantee the Lakers finish with a 14-68 record. Worst record guaranteed! Call me Mitch.

  56. Calvin Chang says

    Anon – Winning changes everything. Guaranteed if the Lakers and Clips switched their records, Clips will be ranked worse. I remember in this past off-season that Jason Kidd was labeled a failure for the Nets bad season and traitor for doing questionable maneuvers to gain power in the Nets front office until he jumped ship to the Bucks. Then they start winning, and Kidd is now labeled a genius.

  57. T. Rogers says

    “ESPN has little knowledge of what analytics and how much analytics are taking part in each organization. Sorry to burst everyones bubble. Every team keeps what their analytics they use top secret.”
    —
    I was thinking the same thing. Basically ESPN doesn’t think the Lakers are big enough evangelists for the analytics gospel. At the end of the day I think it is again about the Lakers front office not playing to the PR game to the liking of sports writers. As Darius noted the team is using their own in house analytics. But Mitch Kupchak and Jim Buss are not about to go out of their way to impress a bunch of numbers guys. They clearly are not interested in gaining popularity in that movement. And they don’t need to be. As a fan I just want to see a better product. I don’t care if Mitch and Jim aren’t the darlings of the annual Sloan conference.

  58. Calvin Chang says

    I really worry about Jeremy fighting the tank. His talent is questionable, and his game has many flaws. Dribbles too high, doesn’t have a teardrop runner, inconsistent FT shooting, erratic. But he’s got a Tebow head-scratching knack for winning in weird ways. This is his specialty – leading a D league talent team that everyone expects to lose to suddenly over-achieve. Like Keanu Reeves in The Replacements. Mitch must be wary of this tank rebel.

  59. rr says

    Buss is taking advantage of his inherent analytical nature and meeting the needs of Lakers management with dot-com-stock timing.

    —

    Perhaps. But most of the guys doing this kind of work at the NBA Level have degrees, including advanced degrees, in stuff likes Statistical Analysis, Engineering, Programming, Business, etc. Jim Buss doesn’t. That doesn’t mean he is not up to it, but some of this stuff is pretty technical and specialized now. And, for old-school eye-test types: Jim also has never played or coached at any level.

    Here is a clickable list of some guys who work in/run NBA Analytics Departments; I clicked on a few of their Linked-In Profiles:

  60. rr says

    In my post (in mod) above, the link messed up the formatting, so I removed it.

    Those interested in seeing profiles of guys running analytics for other NBA teams can search for:

    NBA TEAMS WITH ANALYTICS DEPARTMENTS

  61. Darius Soriano says

    rr,
    Seems your beef is with 2012 version of Kevin Ding. Haha.

    Here’s the thing: *I’m* not arguing for how good Jim is at this stuff. I just noting that he’s been talking about using analytics and metrics to grade out players and look at roster construction for a while now. And, again, I’m not going to sit here and act like I know how it influences decisions. Only someone on the inside of those conversations really would.

    As an aside, you really are the king of taking one line, removing the context, and making an argument against whatever line of thinking you have dreamed up/decided to interpret it as.

  62. bryan S. says

    Calvin: It’s really on the FO. Management needs to watch closely and adjust accordingly. A buyout of Lin might be in order. Players want to win–they don’t give a crap about picks. Anyone else in the way of losing must be attached to the bench/bought out/waived. This is, however, worrisome as the FO has been loathe to give directives (D’Antoni). As others have commented, this is a legitimate critique of the FO’s weakness. No way D’Antoni should have been allowed to play to win down the stretch; and worse yet, no way he should have been allowed to run Kobe into the ground. That’s is much on them as it is D’Antoni. This is what keeps me awake at night.

  63. Mid-Wilshire says

    Chearn,

    Excellent observations on the 3 major draft prospects. Thank you.

    I concur entirely. The next Okafor or K-A Towns may not come around for a while. So I think it’s vital that we get a big now. Okafor is indeed the more polished player offensively..by far. But Towns on defense (and occasionally on offense) is a beast. There’s no other player outside of the NBA who has any semblance of a complete game and who offers the kind of rim protection that he does.

    With Towns, Randle, and Clarkson + another draft pick (or two) and a couple of well-chosen FAs, the Lakers could look very different next near.

    Again, thanks for lending context to my statistics (which only tell a small part of the story).

  64. Calvin Chang says

    Bryan S – I really wish the FO could stop it with the stealth tank and be direct. Have an objective and meet it openly without question or hesitation. If Mitch waives these foolish tank-fighting rebels like Jeremy and Booz, and gives me, you, Darius some free sneakers and Laker jerseys, we’d dutifully suit up, lose out, have fun, and guarantee that draft spot to set up the Lakers future. 14-68 set in stone. Jahlil = ringzzz

  65. rr says

    >>Seems your beef is with 2012 version of Kevin Ding.

    You were the one who posted it here.

    >>Here’s the thing: *I’m* not arguing for how good Jim is at this stuff

    Didn’t say you were. Note that your name is not mentioned in the post, and that I concede that Jim Buss may be a fine statistical analyst for all I know. But you (and Ding in what you posted) did leave out what I see as a pretty key piece of information, and I addressed it. If you want to make an argument about the importance of that information, go for it.

  66. Baylor Fan says

    ESPN admits that their ratings are subjective. At the same time, it is not that hard to see what teams have bought into more modern analysis and to what degree. The coach, the players and style of play all reflect what the team values. In addition, the Developmental League team is a window into what different teams are trying on offense. From that perspective, it is not clear that the Lakers have decided what to do with all of the new data being generated. Undoubtedly that will change but they certainly are not leaders in this area.

  67. LKK says

    Big buzz today on ESPN concerning the post game celebration by Nick Young, Jordan Hill and Carlos Boozer following Sunday’s victory over Boston. Seems as if Mike Trudell was conducting a post game interview with Jeremy Lin, the aforementioned trio staged a celebration that made it seem like they had just won a Chip. Mind you, this is a 14-41 team that has lost 16 out of their last 17.

    http://youtu.be/eX3wAZ0yr7w

    I found the celebration to be a disgrace to the Lakers’ organization. Those players, Young Hill and Boozer, showed an appalling lack of class and professionalism. I thought Kobe looked like he wanted to spit as he watched the footage. Really sad!

    Thoughts, anyone?

  68. Lakafan says

    David (NBA Fan)
    Thanks! Do you think its damning evidence that of the 9 teams in Skeptics/Non-Believers, that only three currently having “solid” winning records. I think it shows well for the analytic community.

    Kevin Pelton (2:31 PM)
    I don’t think it’s a coincidence. At the same time, I’m realistic about the possibility of a halo effect. It’s easy to overrate teams that are successful and underrate those that are unsuccessful. And as I mentioned with the Lakers, that correlation would look different a few years ago. But I think falling behind in analytics has been a factor in why they have struggled so badly as their core aged.

  69. LKK says

    One can glean a positive out of the Kobe segment on Jimmy Kimmel… Kobe is out of the sling he was using after his shoulder surgery and seemed able to do normal things with his arm. I believe he starts rehabbing the shoulder tomorrow.

  70. Calvin Chang says

    LKK – those players deserved to celebrate and have fun. It is just a basketball game. They won it in overtime after losing many in a row. Put yourself in their shoes. Young, Hill, Boozer, Lin have never been to an NBA finals. They’re on a tank team where they’re not sure if the coach wants to lose or not. Hill was almost traded and is just going year to year. Boozer and Lin are cast-offs just hoping for a contract next year. Young- well, he’s always a joker. They won in OT. No harm in celebrating a win.

  71. Darius Soriano says

    “Note that your name is not mentioned in the post” is an interesting thing to state when your comment is directly responding to the post I put up.
    —

    “But you (and Ding in what you posted) did leave out what I see as a pretty key piece of information, and I addressed it. If you want to make an argument about the importance of that information, go for it.” is also an interesting comment considering that I ended my post with the comment: “I don’t claim to know how much of an influence analytics are in the team’s front office, but there is information out there that shows the team does use them.”

    Basically, it was posted by more than one person that the Lakers are viewed as “anti-analytics” and all I did was post an article from 3 years ago noting that their VP of Basketball operations said that he uses them. There is no “other” point to be made by that.

    Further, implying it is *me* that is leaving out important information is sort of comical considering it is you who is simultaneously knocking Jim down a peg by strongly implying he’s not qualified to work with analytics (citing his lack of training or advanced degrees in the field) and of being credible with the “eye test” (because he never played or coached at a high level) and then backing off those statements twice by essentially saying “for all I know”…

    So, what is the point here? I made a simple point regarding a simple premise: ESPN calls the Lakers one thing and I cite an article that says they’ve been doing something to rebut that for some time. Not once did I make a judgement on how well they do that thing (though you strongly did and then backed off).

    So, yeah, I think my original point stands. If only I knew what your original point was…

  72. LKK says

    @Calvin Chang…
    I respect your opinion but I couldn’t disagree more. Their display is indicative that they accept losing. I can understand that they felt a sense of relief at breaking a losing streak and at beating the Celtics. However, they went over the top, IMO.

  73. Calvin Chang says

    LKK- In that case, I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. I can understand Kobe sneering at this celebration because he’s got rings, and only wants rings. That’s ok. But these cast-offs are just happy to be in the league at this point. I also recall Kobe was celebrating with Swaggy after they beat Spurs earlier in the season (so was I). If I’m a fan who paid $320 for a pair of tickets to see that OT win vs Celts, I would also be celebrating the win even if I know it hurts the draft spot.

  74. Quin says

    From what I saw, Lin didn’t even say a word, just laughed at Swaggy (who can be expected to do this). I was only surprised to see Boozer poke his head in, lol. Jordan Hill … he’s gonna follow whoever. As for Kobe’s take on it … I thought that was great. However, I think the team can win more games with the silly attitude than the serious one, to be honest. It goes towards chemistry and trust, which they 100% lacked with Kobe present.

  75. rr says

    Further, implying it is *me* that is leaving out important information is sort of comical considering it is you who is simultaneously knocking Jim down a peg by strongly implying he’s not qualified to work with analytics (citing his lack of training or advanced degrees in the field) and of being credible with the “eye test” (because he never played or coached at a high level) and then backing off those statements twice by essentially saying “for all I know”…

    —

    I simply laid out some very basic aspects of Jim’s quals in relation to those of his peers. Those are facts. That’s the point. How people interpret that information is up to them.

    If one thinks that Jim is underqualified, then the counterargument would be that he had the long apprenticeship under West, Kupchak, his dad et al, which, as I have said before, is not an unreasonable position. But it is also not unreasonable to point Jim’s actual academic and basketball quals if he is running important stat analysis for a multibillion dollar basketball franchise.

    LakaFan,

    Good post. In the 2010 edition of Basketball Prospectus, when the Lakers were coming off 65 wins the NBA title, Pelton said that he had heard that the Lakers made less use of advanced stats than any organization in the game, in large part due to Phil.

  76. lil pau says

    Per ESPN, the Lakers have played the single toughest schedule in the league. Expect a few more wins as we move forward.

    I personally am ambivalent– I’m sorry, but I simply can NOT bring myself to root for losses, despite my excitement about the big names out there should we end up with a top pick. Given my enthusiasm at Staples, which I am certain is worth a couple of points a game, Aaron should drop a line to one of his many connections and get the Lakers to pay me off with a house in Malibu colony. For that, and that alone, I will stay home and even try to keep the t.v. off. I’ll even donate my tickets to opposing fans, just so you know what a phony sell-out I really am.

  77. Todd says

    At this point the only analytics which are important is the distinction between wins and losses. Or, put more succinctly wins are bad and losses are good.

    The downside of messing this up is franchise altering. We have a chance to obtain the key component for the next 10 years and we allow players who won’t even be part of the team next year to influence games?

    Many of you have noticed the remaining schedule does us no favors. Left ‘unmanaged’ the Lakers could practically be .500 over the last 28 games. Such a record would assure of losing our pick.

    Losing this pick will almost guarantee next season will look like this year. It will also mean that we will likely draft in the teens next year. Our future will then be left up to free agency which will emphasize the Lakers shortcomings against other teams with sound management, young talent and cap space — it won’t be a flattering comparison.

    Just lose baby!

  78. T. Rogers says

    “I can understand Kobe sneering at this celebration because he’s got rings, and only wants rings.”
    —
    Well instead of sneering from Jimmy Kimmel’s couch he could have sneered from the sideline at the game. Of course, if he was there they would not have acted like that. I can understand Kobe not traveling on the road with the team. But if they are playing at home Kobe needs to be there with the team. He is still part of the team.

  79. teamn says

    Chearn / Mid-Wilshire,

    I read something today on another site laying out rapid improvement in Towns’ game the past few weeks. He really looks like he could develop into something special. I’m not as gifted as some here with player assessment, but just to my eye, he appears to have more athleticism, quickness, and coordination (borrowing from Aaron). Not saying he’s Anthony Davis, but I could definitely see him playing a big role with the Lakers, particularly next to Randle.

    Still need a good PG, hopefully one that plays strong defense. Maybe Clarkson can become that.

  80. Calvin Chang says

    Can you imagine the insanity of it? Laker corporate sales rep offering discounts, calling your office to confirm the sale of a block of tickets. You paying $$$ to get seats, buy nachos and beer, and root for the team to lose? Shaking your head every time Swaggy hits a 3, cheering when Avery Bradley scores? Getting peeved when the team inadvertently wins and hurts the draft chances. Craziness.

  81. Oldtimer says

    “We collaborate on everything,” Kupchak said. “Like his dad, he has his opinions on players. Like his dad, he’s good with numbers. And he’s got his own way of looking at the game and how he evaluates players.” – description of Jim Buss

    Well, 14 Wins and 25 Losses or .255% – that is the most important analytics in running a team where fans will follow your team. If fans are no longer motivated to watch games, then sponsors are not motivated to pay for 30 sec/15 sec commercials in the future, Lakers has been a diminishing team since Brown was hired, followed by DAntoni’s injuries and Scott meltdown, if this continue to spiral down the drain, you can have all the draft picks in the world , nobody will be patronizing the team if you are a loser and a loser who never quits. Therefore, as a number person, maybe Jim Buss is in the wrong league. By the way, what was his record of wins and losses in the track? What is more factual, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth so he gets the pass from Mitch and some of the fanatics who adores anything that is Laker, rightly or wrongly.

  82. Robert says

    Mitch: He is an employee and when commenting about Jim Buss, he is commenting about his boss. So if the question and answer are public, then you can expect something positive (which would be the case for millions of others in the working world when commenting about their boss). Former employees tend to give a different point of view (Magic, Lester, Phil).
    Stats: Use of advanced stats and such is a means to an end. The end is winning. So whether you do things on gut feel or stats, the process needs to yield results. The longer the time period without results, the less valid the “context” becomes. And yes this applies to Byron as well.

  83. Calvin Chang says

    Wow, Ronnie Price is out for the season. That will help the tank. Ronnie Price is like Patrick Beverley lite. He’s annoying to play against if you’re a PG. He’ll be physical with you, bump and push you. You can’t get mad at him because he’s a nice guy journeyman with nothing to lose, so it’s hard to get revved up against him. But he’s a pest that will make opponent PG use up more seconds in the shot clock fighting his peskiness.

  85. Alan says

    If they are serious about keeping their pick, the FO may need to make some strategic buyouts. Boozer and Lin come to mind. If they can’t trust Scott to let games slip away then the FO will have to limit the talent on the team.

    I look at losing like this: we are essentially 80% of the way home. To think the FO would have cold feet at this point would just cement in my mind that this current regime is not equipped to turn this around.

    There is no ‘Lakers Pride’ blanket big enough to cover up the mess that the next few years would become. The Lakers would be the poster child for NBA Mediocrity: ‘Hooray, we finished 8th in the West – again!’

  88. J C says

    Sad but True Department:
    This season can (only) be viewed as a success if it yields us a path back to relevance.
    Perhaps Laker pride runs too deep in Mitch and Jim to pull the trigger on Lin and Boozer releases now to assure more losses.
    It does seem like many other teams in the league would have zero qualms about dumping players to enhance draft ranking.
    Maybe the FO has to make the tough call: bite the bullet, lose now for future gain.

    Calvin, I volunteer for the Kyle Korver role on Team Tank. I can still hit the 3.
    But I think I MAY have trouble containing Russell Westbrook.
    I think I can get dunked on with the best of them.

  89. Calvin Chang says

    J C – I can also still hit the 3. So you be Kyle Korver, and I’ll be Tim Legler. We’ll stay on opposite corners and yell at Clarkson to feed us the ball. I’ll also volunteer to guard Russ Westbrook. Maybe I can pull his shorts as he zips by me and annoy him into punching me. If he does, I will sue the heck out of him. My wife’s an attorney, so I’m sure we’ll be able to stir up some fake drama to force him to settle. Russ will pay me his pocket change of $100k to shut up.

  90. J C says

    Haha Legler and Korver!!
    Devastating 1-2 punch.

    And yes great idea, I’m sure you can annoy Westie! He plays and looks like he’s like, um, on something.
    And he prob does carry at least $100k in his pocket.

  91. Ryan says

    I seriously think we should cut Young. That was the embarrassing and its not like he’s worth anything as a player anyways.

  92. Ryan says

    That Celtics celebration seriously has me so mad I emailed the team. What an absolute disgrace. The only reason those players are on the court in the first place is to make sure we are one of the five worst teams in the league. To act like a-holes after they beat a bad team to get a win no one wanted is just another toilet flush on this franchise.

  93. lil pau says

    I’ll play center. I’m not particularly tall nor do I have any center-related skills, but the visual comedy would be impressive and, after all, we’re looking to lose, right?

  95. Calvin Chang says

    Lil Pau – you, JC and I will ensure the Lakers don’t win a single game going forward. 14-68 and the number 1 pick. But I wonder if Sam Hinkie will see this and also sign up some local season-ticketholders to guarantee a 12-70 finish? Hinkie has several PHDs in the science of kockblocking

  96. Craig W. says

    It is interesting to read the unfolding information on players presumed to be in the upcoming draft. Not so much on the constant – one note – comments about ‘tanking’.

    It is incredible that there are so many people who know exactly what the front office does, thinks, or is planing. The front office doesn’t talk a lot and, for all we know, there were a dozen deals presented but not acted upon (by our front office or by others) so far this year. However, some fans have made up their minds about the organization, with each confirming bit of information seized upon as being totally factual and lending tremendous insight, while anything that might mitigate their views is conveniently passed over – the ‘talking heads’ in the media are particularly adept at this. Never account for nuance when an absolute is possible.

  98. karen says

    i loved the celebration. They were celebrating how well they placed. Its pretty disheartened to stay up the way scott puts everyone down. Stuff all the critics. Us laker fans, all we have left is nick and gang

  99. Craig W. says

    Ultimately the NBA is entertainment. In that light, this year has very little for Laker fans to grab onto. The same might be said of the players. Looked at in that perspective, the ‘celebration’ is both understandable and a little fun.

    Does it improve the club? No!
    Does it mean much? No!
    Should we spend much time commenting about it? No!

    On to the next game – and can we see any improvement in Jordan Clarkson?

  100. TeamN says

    Darius,

    Saw your tweet on Towns. Agree completely. He is very intriguing for the Lakers, interesting possibilities with Randle and Clarkson. At least a beginning to dream about. Add Kobe, some bench guys (maybe Davis, Kelly, Swaggy) and a decent FA…..

  102. Todd says

    Craig W. – from your comments above it sounds like you believe the FO might not be as interested in keeping their pick and the draft as many of us are.

    If they aren’t, do you think they know where else they can get a franchise player without giving up any assets and pay them below market level for 5 years?

    I’m joking — of course we don’t know what the FO is thinking. However, if they are this close to securing an opportunity to select a franchise changing player and they don’t go for it then I won’t be alone in questioning their sanity.

  103. Tra says

    Talk about catching breaks – in the worst way. Damn D. Rose. Can’t say that I am surprised, but still in all, I definitely feel for him.

  106. Parrothead says

    On a serious note…not much stands now to prevent Lebron from making a 5th straight Finals appearance.

  107. Don Ford says

    Would love to read the Kupchak tell-all book, if ever he were to write one.

    As for “no celebration” BS, his old school shtick is refreshing and brings good Showtime memories …. but is ultimately misplaced and tiresome….

  108. T. Rogers says

    Parrothead,

    I agree. I’ve been impressed with Atlanta all season long. But with each passing game my gut has me leaning more and more toward Cleveland. Not only do I see them coming out of the East, they can match up well with most of the teams in the West.

  110. J C says

    I read somewhere that the Lakers have had the toughest schedule thus far.
    So, easier games to come.
    Oops.
    Has anyone taken a look at our remaining schedule to get a read on how we’ll finish as it pertains to our top 5 pick?

  111. Keith says

    For grins, let’s say the Lakers keep their pick this year and get Towns. Let’s also say that the FO believes it can land an elite FA in 2016 so they roll cap space forward. Lastly let’s say that Kobe gets injured in camp and will miss all of next year. Would the FO allow the kids (Randle, Towns, Clarkson + Houston’s pick) to play enough to finish with a record that gives them a chance to keep their draft pick (top three protected)?

    I say yes — I think fans would accept losing if they knew we were playing a core that could be built upon. The frustration many of us are having is that aside from Clarkson there is no one on this squad that will be here when the team turns the corner. All this losing is so painful because there is no correlation to winning.

    I look at Utah and I sense that the fans are patient with that team because they can see the foundation of a contender being assembled. I think Lakers fans would be equally patient if it was a matter of allowing young stars to develop. Our problem, today, is that we have no young stars in place to see a championship picture down the road.

  112. J C says

    OK, just took a look at our remaining schedule. 27 games to go.
    At our current clip of 25% winning %, we’d win around 7 games.
    Based on the teams we have left to play, I think that number could climb to 10 or 11.
    That would mean we’d finish with around 24-25 wins.
    Any thoughts on where this would leave us?

  113. Todd says

    JC: Has anyone taken a look at our remaining schedule to get a read on how we’ll finish as it pertains to our top 5 pick?
    __

    Without a plan in place by the FO, which includes Scott, then there is a good chance that we will win too many games the balance of the season and lose our pick. I am of the camp that thinks this is a ‘crazy good’ opportunity to pick up a franchise player in the draft and we should make sure that we keep the pick.

    Alan, above, said that we’re like 75% of the way there already it would be negligent of the FO not to finish the job. Alan also suggested that we buy out Boozer and Lin to ensure we lose. I agree.

  115. Calvin Chang says

    If the Lakers FO buy out Booz and Lin, the biggest dilemma here is what do they tell the fans who paid hundreds of their hard-earned money to be at Staples to root for the Lakers to win? My cousin paid $500+ for 4 tickets for his family to see the Mavs at Lakers on March 8. What does the FO say? Too bad so sad?? If I paid that much, and the Lakers were trying to lose, I will go to the Lakers sales offices and start punching someone. They should issue refunds and give free Kobe-signed merchandise.

  116. J C says

    Calvin, nice point.
    What a dilemma!
    That’s probably why the team got Boozer and Lin to begin with – to compete.

    Had Kobe Nash and Randle been available, players like Booze and Lin would have seemed like reasonable supporting pieces.

  117. Todd says

    Calvin Chang: I’m not quite as confident as many others that the Lakers can get this back on track by virtually relaying on free agency. I think there will be many other teams that have played the ‘CBA game’ better than the Lakers and will have better young talent, more future picks and cap space. So in my mind its not a sure thing that FAs will come. Plus, in the un-restricted FA world you’re talking about older and expensive players. So you are eating into cap space and talking about ‘windows for winning’ as soon as you sign them.

    In my mind the FO has to look at long term cash flow. The quickest way to get the team back in contention, retaining sponsors, ratings and revenues is by keeping this draft pick. The trade off is upsetting folks over the last 27 games of this year versus looking at future 82 schedules where the team will likely be completely irrelevant.

    Let’s not forget the team is currently playing at .255 clip. I don’t think many would notice if we played at a .150 pace the rest of the way.

  118. lil pau says

    Calvin, your argument is right on the money. This is why I accept the otherwise-marginal decision to keep Swaggy on board, as a kind of entertainment stopgap during the rebuild (just like Kobe, only without the historical significance). The strange thing is that the crowds at Staples have been pretty enthusiastic– my theory is that it’s because they’re comprised of a lot of people who do not usually get to attend games– support staff employed by the season ticket holders, people who buy aftermarket tix for 50c on the dollar, etc.

  119. Alan says

    Calvin and lil pau: Your logic is right on the money if your goal is to be mediocre for the balance of the decade. I don’t want to finish as the 8th, 9th or 10th seed finish every year.

    My fear is that we’ll lose out on this pick because Lakers Pride doesn’t accept losing — even though this is already a lost season. The team will give the pick to the 76ers and our future cornerstone will be theirs. This off season the FO rolls cap space forward letting everyone know they intend to target KD the following summer. So next year we have a team with Kobe, Randle, Hill and Clarkson as the core and we finish with 35 wins and get to draft in the teens. Later that summer KD doesn’t come because he wants to win now and the Lakers aren’t close because we have too many holes.

    It is my belief that the Lakers are on a very slippery slope. The key to attracting free agents is to have a talented core of young players that have a very open window to compete. Lebron left Miami not only because he wanted to come home but because they had young controllable talent and draft picks. He knew that DWade wasn’t up to another deep playoff run so he went where young players could help keep his championship window open longer.

    Jim Buss is putting virtually all of his eggs in one basket (free agency) and I do not believe it is a sound way to rebuild the team.

  120. Calvin Chang says

    Alan -I do agree that the right thing to do in the big picture is to lose out, get that draft pick and get Jahlil or Towns. But I wish there was no charade, no need for stealth tank. Because I feel bad for fans who paid hundreds of their hard-earned money to come to the rest of the games this season. I feel bad for my cousin paying over $500 last December to bring his wife and kids to the Mar 8 Mavs game. I was supposed to go with him, but luckily I had a work trip scheduled that Sunday. Easy for me to say “lose out, get Jahlil” because I did not pay money to go to the game.

  121. Calvin Chang says

    What the Lakers FO should do is give the remaining ticket-holders a 50% refund on all their tickets along with free Kobe-autographed t-shirts for the rest of these home games , along with free burgers and nachos and soda. Then just outright lose, and guarantee a 14-68 record. So there’s no more drama of “will they / won’t they lose and hold on to the draft pick?”. This charade of competing, but also needing to lose, is just hard to rationalize.

  122. Trip says

    Alan: It is my belief that the Lakers are on a very slippery slope. Jim Buss is putting virtually all of his eggs in one basket (free agency) and I do not believe it is a sound way to rebuild the team.

    Todd: Plus, in the un-restricted FA world you’re talking about older and expensive players. So you are eating into cap space and talking about ‘windows for winning’ as soon as you sign them.
    __

    While the Lakers have a distinct built in advantage in attracting FAs I do acknowledge an increased emphasis by elite players to focus on their legacy. So I think winning is as important as money. So if the money is the same between the Lakers and Team X and Team X has better young talent and assets then it’s not a slam dunk that the Lakers get their guy. It’s been said that a good FA will sign for the money and an elite FA will sign for the money and the best chance to win.

    Personally, I’m a little concerned about who the Lakers want to attract. I hope last summer’s play for Melo was a one-time dalliance as opposed to the FO’s new mantra. The Lakers have a chance to build a team around a young talented core (if you include keeping this year’s pick) which will give then a huge window to win with. No sense in spending our one asset, cap space, on players that due to their age or mileage have a limited window from the get go.

    PS: Has anyone niticed that our 2016 target is already beginning to show signs of wear and tear? Why would our FO want to give up a chance to keep our top pick this year and enjoy the cost controlled years of a franchise player?

  123. T. Rogers says

    “PS: Has anyone niticed that our 2016 target is already beginning to show signs of wear and tear? Why would our FO want to give up a chance to keep our top pick this year and enjoy the cost controlled years of a franchise player?”
    —
    I’ve noticed. And the 2017 target (his teammate) has already had three surgeries on the same knee. Sure its not giving him any problems now. But what’s the chances Westbrook’s knee starts acting up during his next contract that will begin when he’s 29 years old? Yet another reason why the multiple max free agent strategy is flawed.

  124. Parrothead says

    Keeping our pick this year and pursuing an elite FA such as Durant are two separate things that our both included in the Lakers plan. The Lakers stand to get a high pick as well as another first round pick (acquired from Houston in the Lin trade) this year. I don’t understand all the comments on this board about losing this year’s pick in order to pursue a FA in 2016.

  125. Vasheed says

    I’m fairly Bullish on the Lakers future. This year was a bad year to sign free agents as the Lakers did not have the cap room to sign much else. Hence why I supported making this a rebuilding year. The Lakers did not go that way but by circumstances look like the are well on their way to securing a solid draft pick while finally freeing up a lot of cap space and the outlook of more cap space the following year. I don’t think signing guys will be as hard of a sell this year.