The playoffs have been a great mix of high quality, intense games and top flight teams dispatching their more inferior foes unceremoniously. Some might disappointed with the lack of drama the latter brings, but I’m more of the mind that the cream really rises in the second season and if you’re a team that can’t compete, the quicker you find the exit the better. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for every series to offer what the Clippers and Spurs did, but both of those teams were conference final quality and that simply won’t exist when over half the teams in the league make it to the post season.
In any event, the playoffs go on, and as the games get played we also get sprinklings of Lakers’ news and quality takes on where the team is and where they are going. With that, some quick thoughts…
*I’m for the Lakers getting better next season, not making lateral moves nor treading water to try and make a big push next summer when the cap explodes. Grabbing useful players — even if they’re not stars — and using them to up the talent level is an approach I strongly endorse.
*In saying that, they shouldn’t chase guys just because they have name recognition, which is why I’ve been against pursuing Rajon Rondo. Here is a great case against chasing the former Celtic (and Maverick) this offseason.
*Byron Scott will represent the Lakers at the draft lottery on May 19th. If the Lakers actually keep their pick or move up, I’m wondering if he will unfold his arms in celebration or not.
*Speaking of the draft, should the Lakers keep their pick and draft in the top 5 there will be no shortage of good articles to read on the top prospects. A good place to start, however, is with Chris Herring’s reports at the Wall Street Journal. Here are his columns on Jahlil Okafor, Karl Anthony Towns, Justise Winslow, and Willie Cauley-Stein. The articles are Knicks-centric (he covers them for the WSJ), but the information in them is great.
*It’s NBA award season and Steph Curry was the MVP over James Harden. Both were deserving candidates, but Curry would have been my pick. And, for the record, I also would have picked Draymond Green for DPOY, Kerr for COY, and Lou Williams for Sixth Man of the Year. If those picks seem a bit Warriors heavy, I think when a team wins 67 games, it’s usually because they had many high level contributors performing at or near the top of the league in what they do best.
*My 2nd round playoff predictions: Warriors in 5, Rockets in 7, Hawks in 7, and Cavs in 7.
*Other notes on the playoffs to this point and moving forward:
- The Spurs showed, again, how taxing consecutive deep playoff runs can be. After two straight trips to the Finals, making a third run was always going to be very tough. Yes, home court advantage would have helped against the Clippers, but getting through two more rounds against the Rockets and then the winner of Warriors/Grizzlies is a nightmarish gauntlet that I simply do not think they would have conquered.
- Blake Griffin’s evolution as a player has been something that should be discussed more. He went from being just a supreme athlete who could finish over the top of a defense to a multi-skilled PF who can handle, pass, shoot with some range, and operate in the hub of an offense as a scorer or a facilitator. I would not mind one bit if Julius Randle looked at Blake as a guy to influence his game.
- If the Cavs are going to beat the Bulls, I think they need to play LeBron at PF for the majority of his minutes and get good shooting from James Jones and Mike Miller (who has not been a big part of the rotation this season). LeBron will need to guard Pau, but he’s more than capable of doing so if he’s willing to expend the energy to front the post and battle on the glass as he has in past years.
- John Wall really is a great player. He doesn’t always come to mind when talking about the league’s best PG’s, but I’d have him only a slight notch below they Curry, Paul, Westbrook group with Kyrie (and Parker). He’s not the shooter/ball handler Kyrie is (few are), but he’s the better defender and has better court vision in my opinion.
- It’s a shame we won’t get a full series with a healthy Mike Conley to see how hard the Grizz could have pushed the Warriors. Memphis misses their floor general severely on both sides of the ball so much. Tony Allen can’t guard Steph and Klay at the same time and Conley would have at least made Curry work on both ends. Calathes and Udrih are fine backups, but are just not in the same class as Conley and the Dubs will make the Grizz pay for that nightly.
- Assuming Paul is healthy enough to play the entire series, the Rockets/Clippers match up will turn on how well Barnes can defend Harden without fouling. If Barnes can stay in the game and not get fooled/frustrated by Harden’s tactics, the Clips have a real shot. If I were a betting man, though, I’d say Harden wins this battle and, with it, Houston claiming the series.
*Thank you to everyone who read my post asking for contributors and for sending emails expressing interest. I am in the process of reading through everything that you all sent and will have updates in the coming week or so.
Aaron says
Already Blatt making a rookie mistake. You want to start big then go small…not the other way around.
Hale says
Good call with the Griffin template. He even missed his first year. He’ll need the steady minutes that Blake got though he’ll get less rope given the difference in draft status and franchise expectations.
Aaron says
This of course is an example of confirmation bias… but Harden just doesn’t have the athletisim to be as effective against playoff defenses. And this is after he should have a spring in his step with all the time off.
Baylor Fan says
Griffin needs to get over his yips at the free throw line to finish becoming the dominant player you describe. His first step and the ability to go around defenders reminds me of Worthy especially before he hurt his knee.
Craig W. says
Griffin’s triple double really helped to make up for Chris Paul. His passing and assists really were the hart of the Clippers team play. Everyone got in on the act.
I think the Clips should rest Chris Paul for the next game, then they get 4 additional days for Chris to rest his hamstring. They got their split, don’t get greedy and endanger their leader. They will need him later.
Craig W. says
Positively unbelievable!!!
bryan S. says
Griffin is the best upside comp for Randle. I’ve said it since Randle was drafted and invoked the comparison repeatedly in defending the pick against the naysayers. We will see.
Reggie Hammond says
Austin Rivers is not very good…anybody see things differently?
Shaun says
surprised that not matt barnes but jj reddick got the majority of time against Harden and somehow froze him out of the game in that he didnt event get near 30 – harden needs to play with more fire
Calvin Chang says
Very smart coaching by Doc. The Clips weren’t reaching in when Harden drove to the lane with his arms extended. Other opponents instinctively reach in and hack, resulting in freethrows. Clips were just letting Harden take it to D’Andre Jordan. DJ’s an elite rim-protector.
CHearn says
Harden played this game the way most entitled players play when disillusioned in regards to playing time, starting versus coming in off the bench. Or as in Harden’s case, I deserved the MVP award! James allowed J. J. Redick to defend him on his home court in the playoffs…that’s an abomination. His pride alone should have made him go off on the Clippers to prove why he was the season’s MVP and why he’ll be the playoffs MVP. SMH!
Dwight Howard played near his Orlando team abilities, Terence Jones, Corey Brewer, and Josh Smith were awful! James better wake-up or he’ll be sitting at home sipping on that tall glass of Hatorade. He should think like Kobe in this situation, in the next round he might get an opportunity to play heads-up against Curry. Now that’s a target! Curry vs. Harden in the WCF would be epic!
Disjointed Comments
Blake Griffin is morphing into the Clippers leader; he’s not there yet, but he’s on the upsurge as Chris Paul starts to wane. This is where the Lakers faltered there was no young player (not Howard) in place to rise as Bryant’s abilities declined.
Lakers management should not assume their brand will withstand the Clippers status in Los Angeles they’ve been a more exciting team for several years. Years ago, I wrote about the Lakers lacking vision in regards to Generation X, in that children born in 1995-2000 are now 15-20 years old, and they have no brand loyalty. Of those born in 2000 they were 9 and 10-years old when the Lakers last won the finals. Since that time Lebron, Griffin, Curry, and Rose has won their merchandise dollars, and entertainment value. Steve Ballmer and the Clippers are a serious threat. It’s unfortunate that Dr. Buss passed at a time when the Lakers had no archetype, and Donald Sterling’s long known racial problems became titillating news because of his girlfriend’s exposure and subsequent entertainment show interviews. No, they can’t panic and make foolish moves that yield first round knockouts. However, they can’t afford another season like the previous two, or three strikes you’re out! Maybe not for Lakers loyalists such as myself, but the young generation will flee in mass. Will the Lakers win them back? Sure when their product on the floor warrants their present Time Warner contract. If the team requires 3-4 years assembling a team–not a squad–then who knows whether or not the Clippers are the Los Angeles destination of choice. After all, they have the same weather, women, and residual revenue possibilities as the Lakers.
Vasheed says
I would be hard pressed not to pick Towns or Okafor but, just figuring most likely the Lkaers will be choosing between 3-5 slots I’ve paid a lot of attention to Russel and Cauly-Stein. Russel looks to be something really special and would form a great back court with Clarkson. Dual PG back court would allow the Lakers to carry fewer bench smalls and maintain flexibility.
Cauley-Stein is an elite defender. I view having a great defensive center as a rim protector and a PF who defend on the weak side as the cookie cutter build to building a good defensive team. You could do it in other ways but I think as a team builder you are making your job harder. This has been my constant criticism of Randle he never going be that weak side defender as nice a repertoire of offensive skills as he has. Cauley-Stein can cover a lot of territory. Can’t ask much more as defensive anchor. He lacks offensive polish. I kinda like how he has improved his free throw shooting from the lows 30 to an acceptable 60 something. I like guys who go out and improve facets of their game like that.
I’m not very high on Mudiay. I think he could be great, like really great but, I also think he is a risky bet. He has all the physical attributes but I’m concerned with his shooting. If he fixes his issues he is a franchise guy if not he is kinda meh, I’d probably opt for the lower ceiling guy Winslow but, not as risky downside.
Vasheed says
I apologize for my even worse then usual grammar as I only got like 3 hours sleep last night. T_T
Aaron says
Vasheed,
The guys with the highest ceilings usually have the highest floors also. Shooting is the one ability players improve upon the most in the NBA.
Anon says
Chearn: Excellent comments. However, support of a sports team is a generational thing that is very hard to lose. For example, growing up, I had a close friend who was born and raised in LA county, who rooted irrationally for any team from Philly. Why? Cause Dad was a Philly transplant and passed on his love of the game to his kids. Now that he has two little boys, guess what teams they cheer for? Yup, Phillies, Fliers and Sixers. I also had a buddy who moved here from Minnessotta when he was like 5 years old. He’s a die hard Twins and Vikings fan. However, he’s also a die hard Laker fan mostly because when we were growing up the Timberwolves did not exist and the Lakers were transplants just like him. Today in LA, it would be hard for a kid to cheer for another NBA team if his Grandpa, Dad, uncles, older cousins and brothers and everyone within a 150 mile radius of Staples Center cheers for the Lakers.
Where I think you are right is with “new” NBA fans – those fans whose parents were not into the NBA or are of the variety that picks a favorite team based on a favorite player. Don’t know how many of those we have here in LA, but I’m sure the number is marginal in comparison to most laker fans.
bleedpurplegold says
Shooting is not an issue to me when it comes to picking a player… if you are not completly off with yout mechanics and have the will to get better at it, a shooting coach can fix it with you
I am with vasheed…if we pick at 4 or 5 and stein is still there for us, you have to go for it…a 7 feet guy with a 9’2” standing reach and that kind of mobility is hard to find. I know his offense is still shaky at best, but i think i know someone who could help him (and randle) out with that. More than that, it enables us to let go of hills huge contract as well in order to give us some additional flexibility going into free agency, where i expect us to make a big gamble (even though i really dont like to see it, because i think it would hurt us long term).
Lets see what happens on may 19th and hope for the best!
Mid-Wilshire says
Two more weeks to ping-pong day. Time to start lighting candles.
Mid-Wilshire says
Vasheed,
I completely agree with you about Willie Cauley-Stein. He’s a cross between Joakim Noah and Tyson Chandler. I believe — even with his rather limited offensive game — that he could have a real future in this league.
Just think of how important having a defensive anchor at the 5 position is to Chicago (Noah) and the Clippers (DeAndre Jordan). Those teams would not be nearly the same without those very imposing players. The presence of a true rim protector can not be over-stated.
One other thing: I’ve always felt that given a choice between two outstanding players, say, a guard and a center, that you should always take the big man. A good big can always have an extraordinary impact on the game the way a guard (usually) can not. It’s just the nature of the sport.
minorthreatt says
I’m also on board with Trill Cauley-Stein. Having a guy named “Trill” makes it that much easier to part with Swaggy.
Seriously, he needs to get stronger (like almost all young bugs not named Shaq), and he’ll probably get pushed around on the block, at least at first. But with that wingspan, that quickness and the ability to defend out to the arc, he has a chance to contribute meaningful minutes from the start.
minorthreatt says
I agree with Mid-Wilshire. There are at least three bigs in this draft that should contribute immediately (I include Trill on that list because of his defensive potential). If we keep our pick, we have an excellent chance of getting one of them. I think the Houston pick might involve the tougher decision: can we somehow snag a rotation guy there that can contribute from the jump?
Vasheed says
I have the Lakers picking Robert Upshaw with their late 1st round pick. His defense is not as well rounded but he is an incredible shot blocker. He would go much higher if not for his personal issues but I think this would be a worthwhile gamble.
For the Lakers second round pick I would choose an international player Timothe Luwawu. Good strength, seems well rounded. Not an expensive buy out so the Lakers could either bring him in right away or stash him overseas for a while and not have him count towards the cap. I like this since he could fill a need at SF for depth while maintaining flexibility in free agency.
Aaron says
Every playoff game matters especially game one. That’s why it might be one game too late for Blatt to start big with Thompson and Mozgov like I suggested he do before the series started. Smart coaches adjust after they make mistakes but smarter coaches just don’t make mistakes to begin with.
Mid-Wilshire says
In addition to Luwawu and Upshaw mentioned above by Vasheed, below are 4 other possible draft picks for the Lakers to consider with their #27 and 34 choices in the upcoming NBA Draft:
1) RONDAE HOLLIS-JEFFERSON, 6-7, 215, SF, Sophomore, Univ. of Arizona, Birthday — 1/2/95, 11.2 ppg (50.2%), 6.8 rpg, 1.6 apg, .8 blocks, 1.2 steals
2) RASHAD VAUGHN, 6-6, 210, SG / SF, Frosh., UNLV, Birthday — 8/16/96, 17.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg
3) OLIVIER HANLAN, 6-4, 190, PG / SG, Junior, Boston College, Birthday — 2/15/93, 19.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.2 apg
4) TERRAN PETTEWAY, 6-6, 215, SF, Junior, Univ. of Nebraska, Birthday — 10/18/92, 18.2 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.8 apg
If (God willing) the Lakers keep their lottery pick, then I expect them to go for the best athlete available with that choice. However, with picks 27 and 34, they could instead choose a player based primarily on positional need.
For example, if they choose Willie Trill Cauley-Stein with the 5th pick in the draft, then they might select a SF such as Hollis-Jefferson with their #27 pick and Hanlan, a guard, with their #34 pick (if those players are available).
According to reports, Hollis-Jefferson is the perimeter defender equivalent of Cauley-Stein, a defensive monster who is always asked to guard the opposition’s best offensive wing player (or even point guard). If the Lakers want to shore up their perimeter defense, they could do a lot worse. Rondae’s shot, however, needs work. At this point, Hollis-Jefferson is a slasher, not a shooter. But he’s an outstanding perimeter defender, among the best on the draft board.
The other 3, Vaughn, Hanlan, and Petteway, are all offensively very gifted. But their defense needs work.
In any event, this draft is shaping up as a fairly deep one. If the Lakers can find a contributor with their #27 or 34 pick, that, obviously, could help in a big way.
BigCitySid says
-Beginning to see a lot of love for Willie Cauley-Stein on the board. Nicer comparisons then I’ve read about. I’m hearing more comparisons to Samuel Dalembert.
– CHearn, I agree w/ you completely. Lakers (nor their fans) shouldn’t take the success of the Clips likely. Your reasons are quite valid. And let’s be honest, everyone loves a winner, especially the casual fans who loves to be part of the “in crowd”. Clips have earned the right to get more national TV exposure next season than the Lakers.
-Knicks are facing a similar challenge with the Nets, but to a lesser extent. Biggest difference between Laker & Knick situation…Knicks continue to sell out. I believe Lakers had nine non sell-outs.
Robert says
Aaron: “Every playoff game matters especially game one” Agreed – just ask Phil Jackson. His teams were 48-0 in the entire series when his team won game 1 of a series. To put this into perspective, Mike D’Antoni and Mike Brown won a combined 14 series of any kind in their combined 20 years the NBA (which is just about how long Phil coached).
bryan S. says
My Laker picks top 5 and later
1. KAT–best player in the draft. Would pair very well Randall (think Gasol and Randolf).
2.Okafor–then trade him for player(s), picks (lack of lateral quickness, rim protection)
3.Mudiay– (too much upside to pass on, maybe trade, as Clarkson is good enough to nail down the point) Could start both in a two guard front a la West/Goodrich, but their outside shooting would be problematic. . . Expect him to rise after workouts. John Wall?–hell ya.
4. Winslow –I might even move him to the third pick. He’s that solid. Two-way player who can play either wing spot. Jimmy Butler upside. Guaranteed quality starter. Probably the safest pick 3-5.
5. Russel?–This guy makes me very nervous. Unclear from watching him if his average athleticism warrants a top five pick. Pass on him. I wouldn’t cry if the Lakers took Cauley-Stein here (not sure what his position is, unimpressed with his productivity, doesn’t seem smart enough, not a rim protector or post defender). I would be very impressed if the Laker FO had the cajones and foresight to draft Kristaps Porzingis here. This guy is being compared to Dirk because he can shoot with range effortlessly, he’s 7 ft, and he’s a white Euro. But a better comp is Kevin Durant because of his handle ,plus rim protection. As Aaron noted above, the guys with highest ceilings may also have the lowest floors. Risky because he’s skinny, and skinny white guys aren’t exactly tearing up the league. If a team believes however, that with physical maturation and development he can get stronger, he’s a very interesting prospect with his skill set and elite size.
27th pick: bpa, Hollis-Jefferson will likely be gone, but would be very solid here. I like the French kid (Timothe L.) more for conceptual reasons than for any solid evidence. There’s very little on the guy, except that he has two-way skills and terrific size and developing skills to play the two.
34th pick: Take a flyer on Upshaw? Nice ceiling but what a sub floor. Supposedly has spent time in rehab. Naw. Can’t do it. BPA.
The team needs everything. But a prospect with elite perimeter defensive skills and developing offense is a no-brainer. The value of a two-way wing cannot be underestimated. Team defense begins on the perimeter. Jimmy Butler and Tony Allen right now are demonstrating that. Odds are we stay at the fourth pick, maybe jump one or drop one spot. Winslow is the guy.
Baylor Fan says
The Clippers are taking it to the Rockets again without CP3 and the Rockets are a better team with Harden on the bench. Who would have thunk it?
grumpy says
Hey everyone,
Long time reader, first time poster. Good to finally talk to you all!
With that said, I’d like to talk about the draft. Definitely excited about it, assuming we keep the pick of course. 🙂
At the moment, my draft board looks like this:
Okafor > Towns > Russell > Mudiay > Winslow
1. Okafor. Personally, I think the issues with Okafor are overblown. Obviously, his defense can use some work (I think with the right coach, he can improve), his free throw shooting sucks, and he’ll never be a great shot blocker. However, his skills in the paint are unparallelled. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a college player with his footwork, touch, and feel for the game? Towns may have a higher upside than Okafor, but the key word is “may”. Okafor already has the skills and is the real deal.
2. Towns. Even though it seems like I’m bashing Towns, I actually like him a lot. He’s definitely a special talent. He has a nice all around game and with the potential to be a monster on defense. It’s especially great that he’s such a good free throw shooter, something you don’t see too often from big men. I think he’s going to struggle his few years in the league as he’s going to need to bulk up, but the potential is undoubtedly there.
3. Russell. I can understand the concern regarding his average athleticism. However, Russell has got something that is always valued: the ability to put the ball in the basket. He can score effortlessly from long distance and is a relatively crafty player. Also, he has some surprisingly good court vision as well. While not a great defender, he has good size and length for a combo guard. He definitely has some negatives, but there’s a lot to like about him. He’s a smart player who will maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses.
4. Mudiay. He’s definitely the wild card right now. For a long time, he was rated as the #2 prospect in the country during high school. People forget just how good he is because he played in the CBA. However, if you watch his clips, you’ll notice just how athletic he is. Definitely what you would call elite. He’s a great finisher and a pretty good passer (though his vision is not quite as impressive as Russell’s in my opinion–though it’s possible this is from a lack of sample size). There is a lot of concern about his jump shot, but this is something that can always be improved. Like bryan S. mentioned, come work out time, if he can show teams that he’s improved his shot, he can definitely move up the draft board.
5. Winslow. Even with the 5th pick, Winslow would be a heck of a consolation prize. His offensive game still needs polish (though it’s definitely not bad), but he’s a great defender already. He’s able to defend quick wings and because of his wide body and strength, he doesn’t let bigs push him around in the paint either. He was also Duke’s best performer in the tournament. I can definitely see teams being really high on him.
Overall, I think if the Lakers are able to retain their pick, they will find useable talent and I will be happy. I don’t think there are any superstars in this draft like Anthony Davis or Lebron (that will be next year with Ben Simmons–seriously, he is a monster!), but there is solid depth.
I’m curious to see what you guys think.
BigCitySid says
– Surprising how some feel Clarkson is good enough to pass on drafting Russell or Mudiay. I see Clarkson as a backup on a good team. If the two big guys are gone (as expected) when the Lakers draft I take whichever of these 6’5 pg’s are left. Their upsides (Russell = Brandon Roy/Manu Ginobili) (Mudiay = John Wall) tease me enough to choose one. Justice Winslow is an interesting 3rd option.
– Of the next two seven footers on the board, I would choose Porzingis over Cauley-Stein.
Warren Wee Lim says
Thanks for the positive comments. It makes me want to come back…
As for the thoughts on my “plan” … well the Green I referred to there was Danny Green and not Draymond. Draymond Green will command his own max due to the quality of player he is and the rising cap and there is a snowball’s chance in hell GSW will let him go just to save a few dollars.
For the most part, I stayed away from RFAs simply because they will require 3 days to be matched. By then all the FAs would be gone, while the other team simply held us out only to match at the last moment. Tobias Harris, Brandon Knight and Khris Middleton are all getting contracts above 10M (might even be max) if we base it on the upside of the market.
Asik is a net negative (according to stats) because he is a defensive center, who can’t space the floor who plays with Anthony Davis. And because Ryan Anderson is such a great shooter that AD benefits from playing with him than with Asik. Therewith caused Asik’s value to dip. Defensive + Rebounding big men cost north of 10M. If we could sign Asik for 9, it would be a bargain considering the rising cap.
Demarre Carroll was someone I was eyeing before his playoff explosion. Now he will command north of 10M and kinda ruins my plan. But my intent is to sign an athletic 3 that can shoot, someone that can defend Lebron or Carmelo at the same time work without the ball and benefit from playing beside Kobe. If DC is out of the way, I would shift my focus on Jae Crowder, albeit another RFA. The other guy whom I saw alot of improvement on is Corey Brewer. His situation in Houston allowed himself to flourish and it could be the same in LA. His defense is not what it used to be, but atleast he’s athletic and can stroke corner threes and can slash/shoot.
Lastly, the 3rd/4th/5th overall pick is not a very bad consolation prize. Remember, there is a 17.2% chance we lose it, 35.1% chance we move down to 5th, 9.9% we land 4th, 13.3% we rise to 3rd, 12.6% for #2 and one of Okafor or Towns, and of course 11.9% chance we land #1 overall and guarantee we’ll have the absolute best possible start to our off-season.
Speaking of draftees, Youtube clips, scouting videos and etc has me thinking that Mudiay is NOT an option if we intend to keep the guy. Even though many think he is going to be good, he has given lots of indicators that he could be a potential headcase. He went to China instead of playing College ball, and he is now refusing to join the combine. The only reason a physical specimen like him wouldn’t want to join the combine is if that drill will expose his weaknesses and make him drop a few spots.
In the end, I would give Trill, Winslow and Russell equal chance at 3-5. Russell seems like the best bet among them.
Warren Wee Lim says
By the way Darius, can we please remove the site’s filter? Granting speculation here and there can get past your full court press but it will also improve site activity. You can scroll through them later on.
Oldtimer says
Grumpy,
I am equally a seldom grumpy poster here. I don’t know where Lakers chip will fall but I prefer a Center in this order: Towns, Okafor or Cauley-Stein. Any draftee Lakers would sign is a greenhorn rookie who is always a “project” in NBA. There were few exceptions like Magic or Bird in the past immediately piggy back their talents and helped their teams on their first playoff year.
Who do I want to be retained: Of course, Kobe on his retirement season; Clarkson, Randle (a project after the injury)); Black, Davis, Ellington, Jabari Brown. Trade the rest to a promising rookie or retain Lin @ $2M which is improbable.
Here are my dream F/A’s: Marc Gasol, Love, Dragic, Leonard, Harris, Butler and Draymond Green.
Lastly, hopefully Jim Buss come to his senses and stop meddling in Lakers operations.
Darius Soriano says
Warren,
No, I’m not going to allow trade speculation just for the sake of upping the number of comments. You ask this every year. The answer isn’t going to change.
Also, I’ve said this a hundred times — I don’t gauge how successful this site is based on how many comments the threads get. I run this site because I like to talk about basketball in general and the Lakers specifically. People come to this site daily to read those thoughts.
And, I’ll say this again too, thousands of people visit this site every day. There’s probably fewer than 50 regular commenters. Basically, I’m not changing what I like to do — and what other people seemingly are fine reading — to appease a handful of commenters.
Anon says
If the FO ever signs Austin Rivers, I will personally lead a march in front of the practice facility in El Segundo asking for the heads of all in the FO.
Aaron says
Bryan S,
I actually said the opposite ;-). The guys with the highest ceilings contrary to popular opinion also have the highest floors. Of course saying someone has a high ceiling doesn’t mean they really have a high ceilimg. Or vice versa.
CHearn says
-@Grumpy-Good post. I hope you continue posting.
@Warren- Jae Crowder, DeMarre Carroll, and Corey Brewer have long been on my wish list for the Lakers; they are glue players. Carroll and Brewer are 29 years old and don’t fit the youth movement while Crowder is 24 and just might be a player, the Lakers can attract and sign since Boston has so many draft picks.
I’d rather the Lakers snag a similar player with their second round pick. Jean-Pierre Tokoto, UNC, 6-6, 6’ 9” wingspan, age 21, athletic, plays defense with good instincts, he finishes at the rim bust needs work on shooting and consistency which is the case for most players at this level. DraftExpress has him slated for the 26th pick. Another player is Michigan State’s Denzel Valentine, although he’s decided to return for his senior season. He was the catalyst for Michigan’s NCAA run, scoring 22 against the eventual champions in the semi-final game. Valentine is a player that will do whatever it takes to win, like Draymond Green also from MSU.
PurpleBlood says
Enjoyed the article Darius, as usual –
Nice posts bryan S, Grumpy and Warren – lotsa food for thought
Ko says
In response to Darius post.
Perhaps you can allow trading of posters from other sites and then run odds on who is best and then turn this into a gambling site on those trades and then have a hottest NBA cheerleader contest and then and—–
Kidding. I personally post here because to me this is the most intelligent sports site out there with by far the least amount of trolls.
Quality over quantity for me!
bleedpurplegold says
@Darius Soriano:
People come to this site daily to read those thoughts.
EXACTLY what i do! i love it to read other thoughts, take some points from them and spin some thoughts of my own to it. i also like to read thoughts and impressions on the games when i miss one to see the improvement or lack thereof during a season….to me, this board has prevailed as the best one 😀
@grumpy:
i was also here reading for a good year and havent posted anything during that time….but people here are great and very thoughtful about what they say and that makes it so much sweeter 🙂
Rubenowski says
Warren,
So you are saying we have around a 30% chance to land a top 3 pick. I will think positively and block out all the rest.
Mid-Wilshire says
A thought just occurred to me: If Julius Randle and Jordan Clarkson were to be selected in this year’s NBA Draft (as opposed to last year’s), they might very well be taken anywhere from # 3 – 8. They would definitely both be high lottery picks. For that matter, in this upcoming draft, knowing what we know now, Tarik Black would be, very possibly, a 1st round draft pick (maybe 21-25, if not higher).
This is a very comforting thought, especially considering that the Lakers will have 2-3 more draft picks in June.
Perhaps the Lakers are building up a young core for the future after all.
grumpy says
Thanks for the warm welcome, all! I definitely think we have a long way to go to get anywhere close to contention, but if we can pick up two solid young guys in this year’s draft, we are at least on the right path.
Don Ford says
Re Darius’ comment post:
I’m one of those thousands who visit the site Every Day, even if I rarely post. Appreciate Darius and the regular posters, quality beats quantity for sure.
I’m a skeptical optimist on this team. I’m encouraged by the promise of our youth movement, including upcoming picks and (given coming 2016 increase) our cap space for this year. But these positive signs are mere good signs fraught with risk and uncertainty – just like for every other non-Laker team. And we can’t guaranty a savior is coming by calling this the (pre-kobe/shaq) mid 90s team, the (pre-Pau/Bynum) mid 00s team, or the (pre-KAJ/Magic) mid 70s team. We’ll just have to see, right? Hopefully our assets and a bit of luck can overcome some of the weaknesses of the current Buss regime (and BScott’s sometimes atavistic coaching approach).
.
There are no miracles … start with Norm Nixon, Eddie Jones, and Lamar Odom, and hope for the emergence of a Magic, Kobe, or Pau.
Can’t wait to see what happens. Heck, send BS your best luck-vibes for the lotto: it’s what we got got cookin’ right now..
Anon says
Simmons is leaving ESPN. Perhaps he would consider writing a piece or two here?
david h says
hey darius: over the years, the blue turned purple and the yellow turned to gold. I’m talking about the hand print images on the construction paper that mom had saved since the day I brought it to her from kindergarten class way, way back. I found this among the many “souvenirs” she apparently saved over the years despite moving from home to home during my lifetime as one of her three children. couldn’t have been easy, must have been meaningful.
mother’s day serves as a reminder and memory to all of us that it is/was her that brought us into this world and to which we are eternally grateful.
especially to laker fans everywhere, happy mother’s day.
Go lakers
CHearn says
Were you at Cal during either Solomon or Gabriel Hughes or Brian Wethers years? All three of those players were excellent players from Southern California.
the other Stephen says
@Anon,
Bill Simmons writing for a Lakers blog. I would love to see that day.
George says
Mid-Wilshire: A thought just occurred to me: If Julius Randle and Jordan Clarkson were to be selected in this year’s NBA Draft (as opposed to last year’s), they might very well be taken anywhere from # 3 – 8. They would definitely both be high lottery picks. For that matter, in this upcoming draft, knowing what we know now, Tarik Black would be, very possibly, a 1st round draft pick (maybe 21-25, if not higher).
____
Not to throw cold water on your comments, but:
Randle has yet to play meaningful minutes in an NBA game. We honestly don’t know if a) he is an elite performer or b) if he can stay healthy. He is quite frankly an unknown at this point.
Clarkson did indeed perform well. However, he played on a horrible team that was purposely pulling talent off the floor the last 20+ games of the year. He was often the only viable Laker option on the court. Additionally, competing teams would approach their games against the Lakers as expected wins — they knew they didn’t need to bring their ‘A’ game to secure a victory. I like Clarkson a lot — but I’m not sure he’s a star lead guard. It wouldn’t surprise me that his ceiling is as a third guard on a good team. But yes, Clarkson is a building block and a rotational player.
I think Black is also a rotation player on a good team. Kind of like a younger Nick Collison. He definitely benefitted from the same trends that helped Clarkson put up nice numbers.
The bottom line for me, is that a core of Randle (unknown), Clarkson and Black (rotation players) is a pretty thin foundation to build on. It’s a reflection on how poor a job our FO has done in acquiring talent for the future. The FOs plan to punt the ball/tread water these last two years have left us with a roster that is as bare as any in the league.
Now, this could turn around very quickly should Randle be everything we hope he is. Adding Towns or Okafor would truly give the Lakers the talented young core you speak of. However, the coin could come up tails just as easily with Randle being talented but brittle and the team missing out on their lottery pick altogether.
Its my understanding that the Lakers have very few draft picks for the balance of the decade. The Lakers’ ability to climb back into serious competition will rest primarily on how the FO spends its cap space. We are far from out of the woods. We shall see…
bryan S. says
grumpy: Okafor, like any young player and especially bigs, need time to develop. That said, Okafor’s lack of lateral quickness and rim protection are red flags. As Wooden said, “you can’t teach quickness.” Further, back to basket offensive centers don’t have the value they once did because of the need for offensive spacing in today’s game. Can’t see him going #1.
Warren: Your conclusions about Mudiay are off. First, he didn’t attend college because his family was desperately poor. By playing in China he was able to remedy that. By all accounts, he handled himself in China with maturity beyond his years. Second, he like all the other top five prospects, will skip the combine as top prospects invariably do as they have little to gain. Sounds like an intelligent business decision. Plus, look at his national team jersey: how could you not root for “Dr. Congo.”
bcSid: Look at the analytics on Clarkson. Small sample size/bad team-Bah! Back ups don’t perform like that. Take a look at how he fared against quality opposing pgs. . .
Aaron: Yeah, sorry! I was making the high risk, high reward argument and misunderstood your remark. . . .
Bill Simmons: Frequently funny and insightful, also full of himself. Worst move he ever made was getting in front of the camera, where his unchecked ego and immaturity were revealed.
R says
Agree George and the motives let alone the capabilities of the current ownership group are murky at this point, to say the least.
Aaron says
Semi interesting interview today with Daryl Morey on Mason and Ireland. He said the best way to win a championship is by tanking and being really bad. When they asked him why he didn’t take that route he didn’t give an answer but every time it’s because the owner doesn’t want to go through the years of tanking and losing money. Owners would rather make money every year and get knocked out in the first or second round. Understandably.
Keith says
@ George: While piling on the FO gets a little old – I understand your perspective. The truth is that they have not delivered a successful or entertaining product. Our current roster is weak and all we can do is hope and cross our fingers that we keep our top pick and that will expedite our rebuild.
I think we have reached bottom. I don’t think we’ll have as bad a season as last year. Now don’t get me wrong, we are as you said, not out of the woods yet. I’m a big fan of history, and I think Churchill said it best,
“Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps,the end of the beginning.”
Translating to our Lakers, I think the ‘Beginning’ was the pain of losing these last two years. We are now passed that and can focus on “Rebuilding” the roster and then finally being “Competitive” again.
Mid-Wilshire says
George,
You’re objecting to things I didn’t say. I offered no speculation on Clarkson’s ceiling or Randle’s. Nor did I say that the FO is (or is not) doing a good job. All that I said is that if Clarkson and Randle were in this year’s draft (as opposed to last year’s), then they would be lottery picks. And if Tarik Black were in this year’s draft, knowing what we know now, he’d be a mid- to late-1st round pick. I stand by that. In fact, I see very little controversy in any of that.
So far as being out of the woods, I concur: we’re far from that. In fact, in a prior post during the season (around February, as I recall), I stated twice that the Lakers should expect to engage in a 5-year turn-around plan. Some commenters objected to that. But I think that 5 years is realistic. (It certainly is in the business world.) If you think of it, in 5 years Julius Randle will be all of 25 years old. That means he’ll still be developing as a player (as will our 2 or 3 draft picks this year).
I like Keith’s comments that we’re nearer the beginning of the journey than the end. I would only add this refinement: I don’t think we’re at the end of the beginning. I think we’re still somewhere in the middle of it. But we could (operative word: could) be making progress.
There are so many unknowns at this point that it’s almost foolhardy to lapse into facile cynicism just as it is dangerous to be a wild-eyed optimist. Will the Lakers keep their top 5 pick? Answer: we don’t know (yet). If they do retain that pick, who will it be? Again, we don’t know. Will the Lakers’ 27th and 34th picks yield at least one rotation player? Don’t know. Will Randle be any good? Will Clarkson blossom next year and come back 15 lbs. heavier, stronger, wiser, more confident, and more polished? Will Tarik Black develop a post game? Will the Lakers find a gem in Free Agent signings? All unknowns.
In fact, there are so many unknowns in the equation, it’s fruitless to speculate on these issues at this point. We’ll know more at the end of summer. And we’ll know much more in 12 months…not to mention, 24.
I suggest we compare notes then.
Todd says
@ Keith: I wish Churchill was running our FO!
Robert says
Keith If the last 2 years were “the beginning, then what were the 2 years prior to that? Keep in mind that those two years were the Mike Brown disaster and the Mike D/Phil disaster. A second round exit and a sweep in the first. So I count that as a 4 year “beginning” ) 5 and counting if you add Phil’s last year. I Ike your historical reference. So to follow up, I think we have had the Neville Chamberlain era. When is Churchill going to arrive?
BJ Rassam says
The Lakers will once again not be in the playoffs for the upcoming season, and maybe longer until they get new managing ownership.
Craig W. says
Please can we stop harping on the front office.
There is nothing new they can do right now and to presume they are going to screw up the draft, resigning players, and signing free agents is not only getting old, but it shows that you have nothing new to say.
How about more comments on who you actually like for us to keep, draft, pursue. Those topics are on this thread and they are really fun to read.
IMO, we need a big defender with our first pick – assuming we keep it – and a wing defender with our second 1st round pick. Offense is great, but we need to start defending some people.
bleedpurplegold says
cant say how HAPPY i am right now for my man d-rose! after 3 major injuries and 4 surgeries (feel free to correct me here) he seems to have found his groove back…that game winner had to feel good and he deserves every bit of it after what he went through!
Tra says
can’t say how HAPPY i am right now for my man d-rose! .. he deserves every bit of it after what he went through
—
I concur. Due to the leg injuries, he’s not the same explosive player that he use to be, but he’s still a talent that needs to be accounted for once the refs opening whistle makes it official. Outside of the Lakers, he, along with Durant and Anthony Davis are my personal favorites.
Of course the game winning shot will stand out and make all of the highlight reels, however, imo, the key to tonight’s victory was the defense that he and Butler applied to Kyrie and ‘Bron, respectively. They neutralized them and never allowed the pair to get into any type of rhythm offensively. Exciting game and I hope that the injury that Pau suffered is a minor and nothing major.
rr says
Mid-Wilshire posted some 5-on-5 type questions about the Lakers a week or so ago, and graciously suggested having an interest in my opinions on them. Here is a lengthy post taking a stab at it:
1) Which FAs should the Lakers pursue? And why?
It depends on whether they keep the pick and who they get with it, to an extent. But the short answer is:
1. Khris Middleton
2. Tobias Harris
3. Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard on a poison pill deal if doable within the CBA
4. Omer Asik
5. Enes Kanter
6. Greg Monroe
As to the “why” all of these guys are young, except Asik, who will be a low-mileage 29. None of them is a franchise anchor, but all of them are #2-#5 type guys who can do specific things to help teams win games. Yes, it would be awesome if the Lakers could add two-way studs on rookie deals at will in the draft and then sign Kevin Durant and Anthony Davis. But that is almost certainly not going to happen.
Middleton is #1 for me since he might be gettable, because Milwaukee eventually will have to pay Parker and Antetokounmpo, and also Middleton has shot over 40% on 3s each of the last two years. I think there is basically no chance of getting Harris, much less Leonard or Butler. Everyone on the list, of course, is a RFA except for Monroe and Asik, but since the Lakers need younger guys, that is the market I think they need to play in. Kevin Love is not on this list, because I think he will probably re-up in Cleveland. If they lose the pick, then I would probably just tank.
2) What must the Lakers do to return to relevance?
1.Get plusses on the roster and in the pick bank—IOW, plus players and picks. When Phoenix cut bait on Isaiah Thomas, they got a first-rounder back from Boston. The Lakers need to get guys and picks that other teams want. Not all of them are going to be two-way studs and not all of them are going to be signed at or below some Platonic market value. But the Lakers need to get guys that will allow them to make moves and win some games. If the Lakers had all their own picks, and some other picks, then I might say, “tank.” But they don’t.
2. Reboot the organizational image. Scott, Kobe, Mitch, and the Buss Kids all have two things in common: they are the faces of the Lakers, and they are all seen by many as being, among other things, quaint, dated, out of step, behind the times. The Lakers need to do stuff to give the impression that they are cool and with-it again, that they have gravitas again, and also that they understand and use the new data and information about the game. Whether that can happen without Jim stepping down, Byron getting fired, and Mitch retiring is an open question.
3. Stop making PR-driven moves and signings. Kobe, Young, Boozer, Lin, and Scott were all signed in part for PR reasons.
3) How long, realistically, might that take? And why?
Five years or more, and the Lakers could be down more or less indefinitely if a few more things go wrong. I sent Robert an email a couple of days after the league vetoed the Paul deal saying that this might be remembered as the day that “the Lakers stopped being the Lakers.” And that is exactly what has happened. Since then, nothing the Lakers have done has worked and the team has become a punch line. Since Phil left/was eased out, the Lakers have had a string of disasters that, barring some brilliant moves and major good fortune, will take years to overcome, and the league’s economic structure works against them a little (not as much as some people think, but a little), as do CA’s tax laws. I think most (not all, though) of the fan base is starting to accept all of these things now. Where the various subsets of fans differ is how much of it they put on the FO and how much of it they write off to cyclical and structural factors and bad luck.
4) Are the Lakers in the process of successfully building a young, winning core for the future? They currently have Clarkson, Tarik Black, and Julius Randle. They hope to have another draft pick or two this summer that will hopefully make contributions.
Too early to tell, but the short answer is “probably not.” The Lakers the last two years have carried a bunch of guys who are good enough to play in the NBA…but that is about it. The 2013 team was, as I said back then, dragged down in part by carrying guys who didn’t belong in the league—Ebanks, Morris, Duhon. None of those guys has been in the league for more than a few days since then. The 2014 and 2015 teams both had a bunch of guys who are NBA players, but not legitimate starters. Kaman, Johnson, Henry, Meeks, Young, Farmar, Davis, Hill, Lin, Kelly…none of those guys is a solid starter.
So, I think this makes Clarkson and Randle seem like a bigger deal than they actually are…because what they are going to be, probably, are guys who could start on a .500 team. Black seems like a nice guy and is a fun guy to root for, but, again, he is probably an 8th-10th man, like Ryan Kelly. So, as I have said a few times, every Lakers fan, especially Jim Buss, needs to hope that FBG’s SuperScouts are right about Randle having All-Star talent and are right that Clarkson, who was clearly an excellent pick at 46, has a higher ceiling than almost any guy ever picked at 46.
5. What else do they need? What positions should they target for improvement (realizing that they need help everywhere)?
This will depend in part on the draft results, IMO. If they get Towns, then I would try hard to get Middleton or Harris and construct a young front line of Middleton/Randle/Towns with Kelly and Davis off the bench. If they get Mudiay or Russell, then I would look more at a big—Asik, Kanter or Monroe, as well as being in on Middleton. Asik is very limited on O but he does bring some rim protection. Kanter has real issues on D but is a low-post and PnR presence. People who bag on Monroe focus on:
a) What he is not, rather than on his positives.
b) The fact that he is going to make a lot of money.
I think focusing on a and b above can cause people to underestimate his value.
If they get Okafor, I would try to pair him with Davis and Randle, adding in Kelly as a floor-stretcher. If they get Winslow, then I would look more at a big. If they get Porzingis, that would push me to tank-mode. As to the general question, the Lakers, as you note, need a whole team. I think NBA teams today start from rim protection, floor spacing, a wing who can move his feet and D up, and dynamic PG play. Look at the playoff teams—they all have all or most of those things.
MEM=Gasol, Randolph, Conley, Lee, Carter, Allen.
GS=Curry, Bogut, Thompson, Iguodala, Green
LAC=Jordan, Paul, Redick. Griffin doesn’t fit this paradigm, but he is so talented that it doesn’t matter.
HOU=Howard, Harden, Ariza
ATL=Horford, Korver, Teague
WAS=Wall, Gortat, Beal, Pierce
CLE is unusual because they have James. But: Mozgov, Shumpert, Irving, Love.
CHI=Rose, Noah, Gibson, Butler, Mirotic, Dunleavy
The Lakers really have none of those things above, unless you count Clarkson as the dynamic PG. This is why I like Middleton—he can play the 2 or 3, he is pretty good on D, and he provides floor spacing, so he helps with more than one problem.
tankyou says
@rr, great assessment!
I think you are spot on in being realistic at who we might ACTUALLY get at this point. I’m big on Harris, Middleton would be nice, and of course Jimmy Butler would be great. Rose is still the man, so perhaps the bulls get cheap again and offer less than a max for Butler–if so perhaps he leaves. But its hard to get too exctied about a RFA who just won MIP–since it seems dumb of them to not max him out. He’s a much better player than D. Rose who is a chucker at this point with crappy defense. Butler is legit 2 way player and can realistically play the 1-3 positions which is always nice to have.
I also agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Clarkson/Randle. Randle is just a question mark, but Clarkson is way to overhyped now–b/c he got to basically dominate the ball and shoot as much as he wanted at the end of the season with no one he had to really defer to. He’s at best a #3 option guy on a decent team, but I don’t think he’s even there yet, mind you he’s a good starter for us SINCE WE STUNK! They are likely compimentary pieces, actually I think Clarkson likely would be best being our 6th man combo guard. Get another PG, then have Clarkson sub for Kobe or our point and let him be aggressive offensively.
I also would get Asik, he’s great if because he doesn’t take up any shots. He does the junk work on the boards and dunks put me backs, but it frees up shots for other guys. Every team needs 1-2 guys who basically play some great D but don’t get all grumpy b/c they aren’t getting to shoot 10+ times a game. We need to end the Johnson SF experiment and let him walk, or sign him if he’s coold with being a bench guy ONLY. Jordan Hill needs to go as well, we don’t need him shoot endless amounts of long 2’s–which apparently he fell in love with. Just go all in on Randle and develop him at the 4, and get a real center–not Hill. I would resing Ed Davis for 5mill if he takes it, since he clearly can play the 4/5 doesn’t need the ball–plays D, rebounds and is just an all around hard working guy from what I can tell. Ed also doesn’t take bad shots which is amazing, he basically make dunks and drives and short shots and doesn’t mess around with 15 foot jumpers like the other bigs do.
PurpleBlood says
MId and rr, awsome team-work fellas!
Heck of a post rr –
D. Rose:
I too am very happy for him, i dig the cat´s game
`how could you not root for “Dr. Congo.” ´
___
hahahahaha, fantastic bryan S, & i´m wih ya on this!
CHearn says
Excellent post, rr!
Whether Clarkson is the answer at pg is irrelevant to the fact that he received consideration for ROY. When was the last time the Lakers had a player sniff that category? Del Harris decided Kobe wasn’t fit to start, so he didn’t receive any votes. Eddie Jones the player that started Kobe’s rookie season was the last Lakers nominee for ROY in 1994-1995. Of course, receiving votes is no determinant of the player’s viability or longevity when one considers that Keith Van Horn, Darius Miles, and Stevie Francis also made the ROY list.
At present, the NBA is guard driven, so it’s disconcerting that Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Chris Paul, and Mike Conley are all hampered by injuries. For their teams to win, other players will have to step in the gap. Last night the unlikely pairing of J. J. Redick and Austin Rivers provided the boost the Clippers required to take back home court advantage.
Robert says
rr: Nice post. Can’t disagree with too much of that. That is why you are my GM. A couple of questions/comments:
“The Lakers need to get guys and picks that other teams want.” You mean guys like DH, Pau, Barnes? Guys like that right? So I guess getting them is one thing, but then getting something for them is another?
“Stop making PR-driven moves and signings” The amazing thing here is that the Lakers have the worst PR in the league. So we are making moves for PR purposes which kills the team on the court, but we are getting nothing out of it.
“Whether that can happen without Jim stepping down, Byron getting fired, and Mitch retiring is an open question.” You obviously know how I feel, but where I think most go wrong on this, is with the “number of years”. Why would we want to gamble the next 4-5 years on this group, only to have to do a complete re-boot at that time, which will take another 5 years. Of course I remember when you wrote the Lakers being the Lakers e-mail (it is framed on my wall), but do you remember when I predicted that we would break our record of not being in the Finals for 8 years, and everyone here and at SSR laughed because I was too pessimistic. I guess I should have said 18 years.
What you have outlined is a good framework, but as you indicated, the execution will have to be flawless and we also need a ton of luck. Our management group has not shown a propensity in either category.
Let’s see if Byron can turn the tide at the lottery.
rr says
Thanks for the nice comments, all.
—
Robert: You mean guys like DH, Pau, Barnes?
The main ones there for me are Pau, Hill, and maybe Lin. No, we don’t know what offers were on the table, but ISTM that they should have gotten something for Pau and Hill. I was fine with the plan on Howard; the problem there was execution. They did get the pick with Lin in the deal, which was good.
As to the timeline issue: part of that is simply the family thing: Jerry Buss wanted Jim to run basketball ops, so I think Jeanie feels obligated on a number of levels to let Jim play out his hand. Part of it, as noted, is the Lakers’ ownership structure and Jim’s role thereof. And for me, as noted, there is the Veto and the org going all-in from 2009-13 to get Kobe and Dr. Buss one more run, a lot of which was not tied to Jim. But things need to start getting better, obviously.
Hale says
rr: solid
re: Clarkson. I don’t know what he’s going to be. “At best” (to me) that’s like ordering a Laker’s Anthony-Towns jersey before the draft order is finalized. He’s spoken of as a hard worker and he obviously has physical ability. As the Lakers are one of the worst teams in the league now, my main concern is seeing exactly what the young cats can bring. And I don’t mean that in a 76ers kind of way.
The dumb numbers would disagree. Of course, they are just stats in a vacuum.
p – a – r – PER
5 starting PGs whose teams made the playoffs:
7.8 3.1 3.3 11.02 27.x mpg Smart / Green Stink Rags
14.6 6.7 5.3 14.13 32.6 mpg MCW / Buck
10.1 3.4 4.2 11.37 30.8 mpg Beverly / Lurch and the Rocketeers
8.9 7.9 5.5 13.49 29.7 mpg Rondo / Mavs
13.0 6.6 3.5 15.73 31.1 mpg Williams / Nets
1 starting PG whose team didn’t make the playoffs:
11.9 3.5 3.2 16.94 25.0 mpg Clarkson / Forum Blue & Gold
bryan S. says
rr: Nice work. I made the same argument before for the “gettability” of Middleton. Not sure why you think Harris can’t be pried away from the Magic though. As I wrote before, the Magic ownership is notoriously cheap, and by over paying some (which is necessary to have a shot at a RFA), the odds of signing him go way up. Since posting those thoughts however, I’ve come to believe the Lakers may have a real shot at signing at signing one of the big free agents. I think it largely turns on where and who they pick. A great prospect plus a big free agent and things suddenly look rosier going forward.
rr says
. I made the same argument before for the “gettability” of Middleton.
—
That’s right–I should have noted that.
Aaron says
Every player has a price point for a championship team. Players are paid differently on average teams. The Warriors are great because guys like Curry are paid less than they “deserve”. The same goes for the Spurs over the years. if you want to be average you can overpay to get players but that limits your ceiling. It’s somewhat silly to list players you want to sign without listing the prices you would sign them for.
On a related note the only player I thought might deserve a max contract this offseason (Leanard) I no longer think deserves one. I think the Spurs will think the same thing. It will be interesting to see what they do with him.
rr says
It’s somewhat silly to list players you want to sign without listing the prices you would sign them for.
—
As Zach Lowe pointed out last summer, the NBA FA market is not linear and rational. It is fluid, dynamic, and often weird. You are dealing with limited demand, limited supply, highly specialized skills, a monopolistic anti-trust protected cartel with some quirky, socialistic rules, and a rapidly changing media landscape. And this summer, you are also dealing with the issue of the cap probably going way up, which will change contract tradability, as well as other things.
So, I think it is, again, too black-and-white and too linear to presume that you can set a rigid “price point” on every guy based on where the team is in the success cycle, especially when your plan is based on how “easy” it will be to sign Anthony Davis if the Lakers just nail a couple of lottery picks.
Vasheed says
Clarkson I’m fairly confident is a quality starter. His overall stats for the year weren’t that great but over the span he was given to start he played with good stats for a starting pg. He has shown the willingness to improve. I don’t rank him up with the elite pigs in the league but he is one of the better pieces the Lakers have.
I would rank Russell no.2 behind Towns as he could be paired with Clarkson to form a flexible backcourt. Russell is special enough imo to overide what I would consider a wiser path. I think perhaps the most practical approach to improve the team would be to draft WCS or draft another player and trade down for WCS gaining additional assets. Getting a solid rim protector just makes improving so much easier that I see addressing this as a critical issue. I also really like Upshaw later in the draft another rim protector but with off the court issues.
Aaron says
rr,
As long as there is a salary cap, or in a sport with no cap even a limited amount of funds to spend on a team, there is always a price point on every player. That price point changes depending on the amount of funds you have or are allowed to spend when it comes to the NBA. That price point also changes in a salary cap league let’s say when you are only under the cap for one offseason because of other contracts on your roster and you’re in win now mode. Then your price point on players goes up. But a GMs job is to assign a price point on every player for his team. “Player X is worth this amount to us. If he is offered more than that amount from another team we will no longer be wanting his services.” Every GM has a price point on every single player in the NBA. That price point is different for each GM depending on scouting, team goals, and team funds.
Craig W. says
Vasheed,
I am with you on Clarkson. I really don’t get all the negativity, except that some don’t think the Lakers can do anything right. This doesn’t mean I think he is an all-star, or even an all-star in the making, but I do see him as a good starting PG in the Western Conference – and that is something to start to build on.
I also liked your idea trading down, if we don’t get a rim protector – meaning one of the top two picks – and picking up WCS in the 6-9 range. I don’t think he will last longer than that. That could give us a 1st round pick next year, or a 2nd and a serviceable player now.
rr says
That price point is different for each GM depending on scouting, team goals, and team funds.
—
This sentence means that you are essentially agreeing with me. There is no Platonic price that a guy is definitively “worth”. You add that to the other factors that I mentioned and “price points” are subjective and fluid, except for guys at the very ends of the curve. Suppose you really want a guy at 8M but someone else offers 8.5. Do you shut it down or go to 9? Depends on a lot of factors–what Plan B is, how many picks you have, what your cap number is, etc.
So, you might think Middleton is worth 7M to the Lakers. The FO might agree or they might set that number at 10. Or they might offer him a front-loaded deal trying to get Milwaukee to blink, thinking they can trade him later if they have to. Someone else might think he is worth 14M since they really like RPM and all it takes is one overbid. So all those variables are in play.
Aaron says
rr,
People might have different opinions on what a players real price point is to a team or teams but make no mistake about it there is a “correct” objective definitive empirical price point for each player for every team. The closer a GM is to those true numbers the better that GM is.
Also my first post on this spoke about the “fluctuations”or “fluidity” of each players price point. So I don’t really know why you needed to bring it up again as if it was something I didn’t mention. But I’m glad we agree 🙂
Aaron says
…it’s essentially shopping for any goods or services. If you overpay for X you will need to make up that cost by underpaying for Y. However the more things you underpay for or get good deals on (rookie contracts) the more things you can buy and vice versa.
On a side note that’s why I always like athleticism and size. In the playoffs it’s so important when the games get more physical and faster. Look at Austin Rivers. On the other hand look at Steph Curry and to a lesser extent James Harden. Some guys get better in the post season and some guys get worse. And I think it’s mainly strength and athleticism that is that factor.
bryan S. says
Aaron: Spot on. Size and athleticism are key to building a championship roster. You should always strive for elite size at every position in roster building. That’s why I like a Justice Winslow at the two or Mario Hezonja. And that’s why I don’t like Russel as a one or a two: not athletic enough for either spot and undersized as a two. And that’s why I’m so high on Clarkson: elite size and athleticism as a point guard.
rr: Attribution is appreciated. In real life I’d bill you. Ha. p.s. still awaiting your explanation of why Tobias Harris is ungettable.
Vasheed says
Aaron, if size and athleticism were the measure of all things Wesley Johnson would be a perennial All-Star. I tend to bet more on smarter skilled players but, there are always a lot of factors to consider.
bigcitysid says
– Point I find interesting: continue to hear/read “the NBA is guard driven”, yet the best three or four best players are not guards: LeBron, Durant, Davis & maybe Blake (no one’s better this season). I guess many prefer quantity over quality.
– Darius, just for clarification: when does “trade speculation” not become “trade speculation”? What type of source needs to be involved before FB&G will allow it to be discussed?
-Loving the Clipper story:
* CP3’s battle to get pass the 2nd round for the 1st time while dealing w/ a hammy
* Blake Griff playing simply the best ball of all and becoming a leader in this post season
* Austin Rivers stepping up and showing he has enough legit talent to play for this team
* JJ Redick continuing to prove how wrong all those were who mentioned him in the same sentence as Adam Morrison
* Doc’s love for his son hasn’t cost him his team
* there’s a good chance there’s more to come
J C says
If there’s a way to snag Jimmy Butler with a poison pill contract, I’d go all in to do it. He’s a terrific young player.
We could then conceivably start:
Kobe
Randle
Okafor, Towns, or WCS
Butler
Clarkson
That would be an interesting 5.
I do agree with Clarkson’s upside for three reasons – his athleticism, his work ethic and his fearlessness.
However, his stats and PER were clearly inflated by being a stat-stuffer on the worst team the Lakers have ever had. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t be a solid contributor on a good team. Time will tell.
Just a few more days and we’ll have a better idea where we stand with our draft pick!
(Prayers to the Ping-Pong Ball Gods!)
Craig W. says
I am not a Clipper fan, but the Rockets are sure collecting on their karma. I think we can definitively say that Dwight Howard is not someone who will lead a team. His defense can be stellar, however, he is not a leader, but a #2 and a complimenter. Harden is reverting to his no-defense actions under playoff pressure – surprise! The loss of Chandler Parsons is also more critical in this series.
For all of the brilliance attributed to the GM, Houston is a very delicate team. Pressure them and they revert to firing the rock, not getting back.
Craig W. says
I suspect we should take Jimmy Butter and Draymond Green off our wish list. Both are highly likely to be resigned by their current clubs – the player’s announced preferences – even if that means paying max money. If there is any year where overpaying at the max is wise, it would be this summer.
Gotta agree with rr here, in that I think Middleton and Harris should be our top targets in free-agency. If we have some confidence – i.e. there is illegal back-channel communication going on – this would allow us to concentrate on bigs and guards in the draft.
Mid-Wilshire says
rr,
Excellent post. I thought your observations were thoughtful and insightful. Great job, as always. Really a fine job.
Vasheed, Craig W., et al.,
I join you in being mistified by the frequent negative and dismissive comments regarding Jordan Clarkson. Usually, fans welcome young, athletic, new talent on to their teams. While it’s certainly healthy to keep an open mind about Clarkson’s ultimate “ceiling,” most fans on other teams would welcome his presence and be hoping for the best, not dismissing him as a gunner on a lousy team with few options (which is a bit unfair and a gross over-simplification).
But I think that Craig W. may have hit on something when he states that many Lakers fans simplly assume that the FO simply can’t get anything right. Actually, I’d go farther than that.
I think that Jordan Clarkson’s success (15.8 ppg, 5 apg, 4.2 rpg, 45.8% shooting in 31 starts) is something of an embarrassment to certain Lakers fans, especially those who are determined to see the FO fail at all costs. After all, Clarkson was a “find” by the Lakers’ current Front Office as was, for that matter, Tarik Black. These were two excellent moves. Therefore, Clarkson’s success reflects on Kupchak and even on Jim Buss. And that puts these “fans,” whose attitudes toward the FO have become poisoned with resentment, in an awkward position.
If Clarkson succeeds, then the FO have proven themselves, at least in isat instance, to be insightful, savvy, and pretty damned clever. And the detractors of the FO simply don’t want that.
Therefore, it’s easyfor them to say that Clarkson’s numbers are inflated and that Clarkson is over-hyped and will amount to nothing more than a decent NBA 6th man.
The truth is, we don’t know. Jordan Clarkson is, after all, only 22 years old. He has yet to grow into his body. And his game is still evolving. Why don’t we give him a chance to develop and m?ture.
Fopr those who are dismissive of Clarkson (because his success is the FO’s success and they can’t stand the thought of that), I suggest that they go cheer for the Clippers. Living in Los Angeles, I have several friends who are Clippers fans and they are very wary of Clarkson. JC, in fact, makes them more nervous than any other Laker player. He’s simply too athletic, too promising, to willing to learn, and too filled with genuine potential to make them anything but anxious.
One thing for certain, this Jordan Clarkson controversy, if it can be called that, will probably resolve itself. If JC comes back in November 10 pounds heavier, stronger, more polished, and more developed, then he will silence his detractors who masquerade as Lakers fans but are really FO haters above all else.
Meanwhile, as I write this, for all we know, Jordan Clarkson is somewhere in a gymn, lifting weights, working on his ball-handling skills, and taking thousands of shots under the watchful eye of Steve Nash. If Jordan Clarkson proves his detractors wrong next season, let us not be surprised.
bleedpurplegold says
I also like middleton, put i wouldnt overpay for him…he is an elite 3point shooter, who can make a difference… and those shooters have some hefty price tags (see:korver), so jimmy has to be careful going into negotiations this summer not to be duped
Talking about jimmy: there are 2 years left on his deadline to make this team relevant again….how do you guys think this will affect jb’s strategy going into this offseason? He has got to feel some pressure on him, which could incide him into some stupid decisions….would he even consider stepping back if he feels like he sees no considerable development at midseason?!? Or would jeannie consider firing him if he hands out some huge contracts that would backfire immediately because those players dont fit?!?
Aaron says
Brian S,
That’s why Clarkson can only be a PG because he doesn’t have the strength to play SG and his height makes up for his lack of strength at only the PG spot. If he had a different body type or was 19 and I thought could add more strength I would be more high on him. We will see if he can get stronger but as of now he is the type of player that will get pushed around in the playoffs. He won’t be getting to all the spots on the floor like he does in the regular season.
Vasheed,
Johnson is a beanpole (no strength) and has little body or hand/eye coordination. The only athletic trait he has is leaping ability and the only tangible physical traight he has is length. He is exactly the type of player bad scouts mistake for athletic because he is long and can jump. And btw… Johnson is the kind of player that because of that length and spring in his step would be better in the playoffs than in the regular season.
bryan S. says
Aaron: I agree Clarkson doesn’t have the ballast to play the bigger players at the two. But he is far from a weakling; weighing 190 right now. Fans here have suggested he should add 15-20 lbs. That would be really unwise, as he would lose quickness. 5-10 pounds of muscle tops. It takes a lot of work to do that right (stay lean and gain strength). He’s a point guard.
Idiosyncratic Fandom: Even though I live in Santa Cruz, and have called the Bay Area home since attending Cal, even though I’ve been to a ton of Warrior games and like the team well enough, I am thoroughly enjoying the whupping they are getting at the hands of the Grizzlies.
It’s the old under-dog vs. over-dog. The under appreciated vs. the media darlings. Mike Conley never drawing attention to himself; Stephen Curry pointing at the heavens every time he does something. Bogut, a churlish underachiever; Gasol, a gracious overachiever. All of that.
I’ve always loathed the Clippers, yet find myself appreciating them and am enjoying the beat down on the farcical Rockets. My fear is that the Clippers are good enough to go all the way; and that would be an awful outcome for a Laker lifer. It’s tough being a Laker fan right now . . .
Aaron says
Bryan S,
I agree. He shouldn’t add weight. But he needs to try and add as much basketball strength as possible. Michael Jordan wasn’t big he was wirey strong. That’s what you want out of guards. Same with Westbrook. Wirey strong. But I don’t see that in the cards for Clarkson.
Anon says
I think any team that can beat the Spurs in a seven game series is good enough to go all the way. I really appreciate this site because I think Darius and his readers are basketball fans as well as Lakers fans and appreciate good basketball when we see it. That Spurs-Clippers series was one for the ages and this Clippers team has won my admiration. I don’t understand how some fans (mainly on Silver Screen & Roll) can hate on every other team except for the Lakers. It’s almost like they’re myopic homers and not really hoop fans at all. I don’t really see the Clippers and Lakers having a rivalry, with the exception of them being in the same city. And I’m actually enjoying these NBA playoffs. Hopefully we can begin to build a foundation for a real team this summer and be back in the playoffs in the next few years.
rr says
The thing that would bother me about the Clippers winning the title would be its connection to The Veto. Take that out, and the Clippers winning wouldn’t matter to me.
Robert says
Clips: I despise 3 teams: Celtics, Spurs, and Clippers. In the last case, it is not cause of anything they have done, but rather what they could do. If they have a parade in LA and hoist an ugly championship banner in our arena, most of you will agree with me at that time.
bryan S. says
Mid-W @ 9:15: Great, insightful post, this is gold:
I have several friends who are Clippers fans and they are very wary of Clarkson. JC, in fact, makes them more nervous than any other Laker player. He’s simply too athletic, too promising, to willing to learn, and too filled with genuine potential to make them anything but anxious.
Craig W. says
The key in building is not to add a superstar first, then add parts – that is a matter of luck. The key is to have a bench – we have – and build solid starters around which we can add a couple of free agents. One of our own has to become a star in this scenario, but that is generally true, ala Dwayne Wade for two different Heat teams.
rr says
Mid,
Thanks very much for the ups, but WADR it would be just as easy to say that FO defenders are going overboard in building up Clarkson since there is literally nothing else to point at to defend the Jim Buss FO right now. The Lakers have lost 116 games in two years and still owe #1 draft picks to two different organizations, so surprisingly snagging a starter in Rd 2, if they have in fact done that, is just one small step on a long road, especially since Randle missed the whole season.
Also, I have said many times that I would much rather say, “The Jim Buss FO has gotten it done and proved everyone wrong” than root for a bad team, and I think most people feel that way.
Ryan says
Speaking of hard times I was shocked to find out this site struggles to get even 600 unique views a day! Yikes, I hope it doesn’t just vanish in a year or two.
George says
Can anyone verify the free agent status of Clarkson and Black after this next year…are they restricted or unrestricted? If they are unrestricted, do you think the FO may trade them this offseason? My rationale is that together they may get the Lakers another lottery pick. By getting a talent who is cost controlled for 4 or 5 years they could forgo having to pay market prices to keep Clarkson and Black and keep more cap space for bigger free agents.
Craig W. says
George,
Clarkson is why you use the draft. Trading him to get a higher draft pick would seem to be counter-intuitive. Cap space isn’t the end-all-beat-all, especially when you have a talent on rookie scale.
R says
bleedpurplegold, I would not count on any specific time line for Jimmy Buss to step away, regardless of what he’s said or what some may think he’s said.
Aaron, Jordan wasn’t big??? heh, heh OK. Well, smaller than LBJ for sure. But, certainly not a wee mite by any stretch. Bigger than Kobe I’d hazard.
Aaron says
R,
Are we talking about in his 20’s when he was in his prime? Yes he was skinny and wirey strong. But yea when he was in his mid 30’s he bulked up. Maybe you are too young to remember Jordan before his first retirement?
R says
Aaron, I’m old enough to remember Jordan before his first retirement, but perhaps I am thinking of his size in his later years.
Vasheed says
@George, both Clarkson and Black will be restricted free agents after next year after receiving qualifying offers from the Lakers.
BigCitySid says
@ Robert: pertaining to your hating, “If they (Clips) have a parade in LA and hoist an ugly championship banner in our arena, most of you will agree with me at that time.
Put me down as one who wouldn’t be a Clipper hater. In my humble opinion, I see the Clippers success as just the kick in the pants the Lakers FO needs. They are coasting; relying too much on 16 titles, great weather, and an over the hill Kobe instead of seriously preparing for a complete team makeover to make the team as relevant in the postseason as soon as possible. Lady Buss is already on record as stating 2015-2016 will be all about Kobe.
Lakers have overlooked and taken the Clips presence in Staples for granted. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. Clips already have made serious inroads on casual fans. No they are not going to recruit longtime hardcore Laker fans, but those under 14 are a different matter.
Let’s face it: Clips have been better entertainment for the $$ this season, and will be next season. Lakers 2016-2017 is coming fast…and the Clips will be waiting…at home.
George says
Vasheed: @George, both Clarkson and Black will be restricted free agents after next year after receiving qualifying offers from the Lakers.
__
Thanks for the clarification. This at least gives the Lakers some control and cost predicability for the next two years. My fear was that they would be free agents and the Lakers would be forced to pay them market prices (in a raising cap environment, no less). In that instance, I would be open to flipping them now as opposed to losing them or wildly overpaying them next summer.
PurpleBlood says
Ryan,
just in case you missed it:
Darius Soriano May 7, 2015 at 8:59 am:
— I don’t gauge how successful this site is based on how many comments the threads get. I run this site because I like to talk about basketball in general and the Lakers specifically. People come to this site daily to read those thoughts.
___
so don´t fret amigo!
___
IMO, since Darius posted his `call for contributors´ many commenters´ posts have actually gone up a notch or two. Nice goin´ people!
Stuart says
@BigCitySid: I agree with you that the Clippers’ recent success is a good thing for Lakers’ fans. Nothing like some strong competition in your own backyard (literally) to get our FO to focus on the task at hand, I have long thought that Jeanie and Jim’s signing the Kobe extension, under the circumstances that they did, was a result of so many major previous decisions going wrong. Hiding behind one of the most popular Lakers ever for two years seemed like a smart thing to do. I’m sure they felt that the extension would take the pressure off them while they figured out what to do when Kobe retires.
Well, any business owner will tell you that taking two years off from minding the store is not a good thing. The Lakers have paid a steep price for ‘trying not to make another mistake’. On the court, we have experienced back to back ‘worst record in the history of the franchise’ seasons. Off the court things don’t appear to be much better. Reading between the lines you get the impression that not everything is well in Lakerland.
I get the fact that when things go poorly you circle the wagons and wrap yourself in your storied past. The unfortunate thing is that the Clippers are experiencing their best seasons ever and have caught the attention of not only local fans but the national media as well. Since, Ballmer took over the Clippers are all about new beginnings and the future. There is a positive energy about them.
It’s as if the shoe is on the other foot now. The Lakers are the franchise that looks lost. The Lakers are the ones with little talent and with little hope for the near term. Its Lakers ownership that is perceived to be out of step.
No one is saying that the Lakers are dead. Winning certainly cures all. But as rr alluded to, it may take some changes at the top for the Lakers to turn this corner. They are in depths the franchise has not experienced previously and there are serious doubts about whether this management team is capable of rising to the occasion.
Hale says
I’m with BCS on this one, Robert. I have legacy disdain for the Clips but not hot hell vitriol that true rivals brought. The Clips have taken the keys to the car and left the Lakers drunk on the side of the road with a sore thumb. It’s past time they stop riding their nostalgic entitlements and pretending that its ghosts will guide them safely to triumph. Let these fools sober up during their long walk back to Staples.
The worst things about a Clip title would be Doc getting another victory and the self-congradulatory spin the NBA on the (illusory) swift action it took regarding Sterling. Oh… and more Blue & Red poseurs.
T. Rogers says
“I see the Clippers success as just the kick in the pants the Lakers FO needs.”
—
I agree with this as well. I find myself rooting for the Clippers and Grizzlies. The Clippers actually have a chance to make the NBA Finals. I think they are mentally stronger from having to fight so hard against the Spurs. I think they believe they can now beat anyone. And they can. Just having the Finals in town is enough to ruffles the Lakers feathers. And that’s a good thing.
I’m rooting for Memphis because the Golden State love fest has become too much. I get it. They are all such great guys. I’m just tired of hearing about it. Just let them play basketball.
Kevin says
Stuart: It’s as if the shoe is on the other foot now. The Lakers are the franchise that looks lost. The Lakers are the ones with little talent and with little hope for the near term. Its Lakers ownership that is perceived to be out of step.
__
Lakers fans are in a bit of an unusual place. There is so much uncertainty about our team. I find myself putting an undue amount of importance on this draft pick. I want the Lakers to build a young team that has a core that can play together for years. If we get a franchise changer in the draft (Towns) that dream may be possible.
If we miss out on the pick altogether I worry about Jim’s self-imposed deadline. A young emerging team would wipe that silly promise off the board because everyone would see that we are on a rising trajectory. If we lose this pick I feel Jim may get caught up in his promise and make moves that negatively seal our fate for years to come.
Man, it’s hard to believe that I have as poor a perception of Jim Buss as I did about Frank McCourt when he ran the Dodgers. Yikes!
rr says
Ha. p.s. still awaiting your explanation of why Tobias Harris is ungettable.
—
Orlando was the team the Lakers “beat out” for 4th-worst record, and they are probably the most anonymous team in the NBA right now. Harris is 22 and is probably their second-best player. Also, Shaq and Howard both left Orlando to come here, so given that backdrop, I don’t think the ORL management would like the optics of letting a guy like Harris come here.
Robert says
BCS: “kick in the pants” – How much of a kick do we need? The Lakers and Clippers have co-existed in the league for 31 years. The Clips have had a better record than us exactly 4 times during those 31 years. Three out of those 4 are the last 3 years. Prior to the last three years, the Lakers held an all time record of 97-28 against the Spurs. During the last 3 years, the Clips have an 11-1 record against us. If this is not enough of a kick, then I doubt an ugly banner hanging in Staples will help either.
Hale: Where are we disagreeing? : ) I listed the teams in priority sequence. By the way – Have I said recently that I hate the Spurs?
Stuart: ” Since, Ballmer took over the Clippers are all about new beginnings and the future.” Something to think about.
Robert says
Typo above. 97-28 against the Clips. I only wish it were like that against the Spurs. I hate the Spurs.
R says
Robert, what do you think of the Spurs? =o)
Warren Wee Lim says
I would just like to clarify that I did not ask for trade speculation to be allowed, but that the site filters too many words that “think” they are trade spec thus the filter. I post now and my comments appear some 11 hours later, and I read now, only to react/find out that posts have been filtered and now appear which did not appear when I read it.
Anyways…
The Salary Cap is projected to rise to 90M in 2016 and around 108M in 2017. There have been plenty of writeups about this so its not just my imagination. This development should favor the Lakers who basically need Free Agency to get a team.
While it would be good to target Restricted Free Agents, the teams owning their rights have three days to decide to match the offer sheet they signed. Those 3 days in July last an eternity and signing 2 RFAs to start your year maybe the reason you don’t sign any.
The Lakers need to make a B team this year and sign a defensive crew. Everyone talks about D yet no one is willing to sign/pay for it so this is the year we do it. I just hate the fact that Demarre Carroll is tearing it up now coz no way he can be signed at 7-9M now. As I posted above, my ideal offseason would’ve been to acquire Millsap, Asik, Carroll and Danny Green. These guys are great glue/defensive guys who are key pieces to a team. We just need that 1 star to join in a core of: 2015 top 5 pick, Randle, Clarkson, Carroll, Millsap, Asik and Green. Oh and there’s that Kobe guy…
Darius Soriano says
Warren,
The site doesn’t filter words regarding trade speculation. It filters words or combos of words that it thinks might be spam. I don’t control the filter, either. I’ve added words to the filter, but those are mostly spammy words that are, often, in spam comments that bots have figured out ways to beat the filter. Also, you live in the Philippines. The time zone difference alone is going to account for some of the delay in your comments. I also have a day job and am the only person moderating comments. So, there will be delays. Sorry for any inconvenience, but it is what it is.
bryan S. says
rr: Appreciate your response. Orlando’s 3 best players imo: Vucevic, Payton, Oladipo. Harris isn’t a good defender. He has a good handle, can pass and shoot with range. Great size but not great quickness as a wing. Last season they drafted Aaron Gordon, who finally got healthy towards the end of the season and began to show why they picked him at the fourth spot. They also have Maurice Harkless, another developing wing who they don’t have minutes for. If the Magic hang on to the fifth spot in the draft, there are likely several top prospects available who are wings: e.g. Winslow, Hezonja, Stanley Johnson. If the Magic pick one of these guys, I read it as a sign that Harris can be pried away with a strong offer. I don’t see the Magic worrying too much about losing Harris to the Lakers either. It’s not letting a star get away. Given these considerations, I think the odds of getting Harris are somewhat stronger than the odds of getting Middleton. In both cases, both the Bucks and Magic have accumulated young, cheap talent that they are going to have to pay. It’s hard to know what the Bucks new ownership will do, but the Magic have always been a budget outfit.
Renato Afonso says
Hi Darius,
Did you get my email? Just checking because I’m not surge you did…
George says
Curious to hear from those in the know — is Mudiay a better player than Clarkson? Forgetting the fact that Clarkson is better now, I’m asking in 3 or 4 years into the furure, is Mudiay a far better player?
I ask this because right now we have very little talent. To compete in the West we will need a lot of talent across the roster and specifically 2 or 3 really special players. I don’t want the Lakers to peak out as a good team getting between the 6 – 8 seed every year. If we don’t feel what we have is elite enough we should be willing to move it to get a great piece.
J C says
Anon:
“That Spurs-Clippers series was one for the ages and this Clippers team has won my admiration.”
Very well said. I concur.
In fact I think the Clips learning from and eventually beating the Spurs elevated their game like a super-advanced level training camp. They’re toying with the Rockets now.
No one in their path will play as intelligently as the Spurs did. And still, the Clips came of age. Trial by fire, as it were.
In spite of myself, I am happy for Chris Paul rising to the occasion in that series, Deandre outplaying Dwight, and Blake Griffin becoming a complete ball player.
Can anyone best the Clips now?
One could say that the Clips-Spurs series was actually the NBA Finals.
Kevin says
George: Curious to hear from those in the know — is Mudiay a better player than Clarkson?
_
Well, I am certainly not in the know. But your question is relevant because the Lakers will likely be picking in the 3- 5 range and Mudiay will likely be on the board. To me, Mudiay is big enough to guard SGs in the NBA so I would not have a problem taking him. He plays like a Lance Stephenson without the personality issues.
Could he be a SG? The issue with him is that he does not have an outside shot yet so it remains to be seen if a Clarkson/Mudiay backcourt would work long term. Russell is a better outside shooter by far but I don’t know if he can finish at the next level. Mudiay seems to want to take it to the basket, which I like.
I have a question as well. Is Clarkson held in high enough regard to return a lottery pick? Hypothetical situation: If the Lakers get lucky and drafted Towns could they flip Clarkson for Mudiay straight up? This way Randle, Towns and Mudiay would all be 19 or 20. Clarkson is four years older than Mudiay (23 vs 19). Clarkson is court ready now and Mudiay will require a longer learning curve, like Dante Exum.
Oldtimer says
I concur with your posts Big City and Kevin about the Clippers. As Los Angelenos, we have to appreciate their success with this new phenomenon. This is not a bandwagon thing but acknowledgement of brilliance on the basketball court. We are Lakers fans through and through but no fan of an inept and a kaput owner who is even embarrassed to show his face to the public. He got no passion yet full of ego to acknowledge his mistakes to avid fans who supported his team over these years.
They need a Center in this draft just like what Lakers were missing this season. There are a dozen PG’s and fast lilliputians however talented 7 footers are rare. Go for Dragic and Love and emphasize on D, Lakers will be alright as long as they don’t focus on losing nor let the incompetents run the franchise! The future never takes care of itself with this tanking and dreaming of “what will be a dream roster?”. Always try to win and compete in any season whatever roster they have, after all this is just an entertainment from one season to another.
rr says
Can anyone best the Clips now?
—
Golden State is is still a tough matchup for them.
R says
But will GS get past Memphis?
rr says
But will GS get past Memphis?
I think so, yes. Matchups matter in postseason, but so does overall team quality. GS was #2 in ORTG and #1 in DRTG.
R says
JC “they (the clips) are toying with the rockets now.”
Ain’t it sweet? And how often does a player earn 6 PFs and 2 Techs in one game? Dwight Coward really showing what he’s made of.
CHearn says
-@Warren-a lineup of Asik, Milsap, Green, and Carroll would have worked prior to the Clippers ascension. However, that lineup will not work anymore. They are not sexy! I’m sure you know what I mean by that.
In a market where competition abounds for entertainment dollars, the Lakers have to challenge with all of those attractions to get the consumer’s revenue. That lineup works fine in Minnesota, or Milwaukee but not so much in sunny California. The Lakers need a must-see lineup. One where fans are proud to post their presence at the game on social media to garner ‘likes.’ For a social media blitz, the Lakers require young sexy studs even if they’re first or second-year players with no experience.
The Lakers need to spice this thing up; they need jalapeños, not black pepper!
The Lakers need players with a defensive mindset for their later picks.
R says
If the clips win it all, doc would join a very select group of three coaches who have coached NBA champs at two franchises. Four if you count Bill Sharman, who won in three professional leagues.
Anonymous says
Kevin: While I think Clarkson showed he belonged in the league and has the benefit of some ‘upside’, I think you answered your own question. Clarkson will be 23 by the start of the next season, he’s a late bloomer for sure — but I don’t think he could be swapped for a lottery pick in this draft. Most of the kids that go in the lottery are 19 or 20 and are full up upside potential (that in reality most won’t realize).
Stuart says
George and Kevin: Regarding Clarkson and Mudiay
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The Lakers are so thin on talent they can’t afford to draft based on need, they should draft based on the best talent available. It would be nice if everything just fell into place for the Lakers and they could draft a center with the top 5 pick and a legitimte SF with their later pick. However, I don’t think they’ll have that much luck.
The truth is that the Lakers are in for a lengthy climb back to the top. If the Lakers draft Mudiay then it may take a few years to determine if he and Clarkson can play together or if one of them has to be moved to fill another hole.
Randle, Clarkson and Black are just three players and as some have noted the team doesn’t really know what they have in them. So they have 3 question marks and 15 spots on a roster to fill. Even if championship teams only go 10 deep they’ll still have to find 7 rotational players and as George mentioned 2 or 3 of them have to be special talents.
If that doesn’t dramatize the work they have in front of them, I don’t know what would. The Lakers are essentially starting at square 1.
R says
“The lakers are essentially starting at square 1” yes, so true. Another way to look at it: check out the talent of the last teams standing, particularly the Warriors, Clips, Cavs, Hawks, and Bulls (even the Rockets). All five teams are light years ahead of our heroes in roster quality.
R says
All six teams actually but you surely get the idea …
Aaron says
Golden State will beat the Clippers in five
karen says
Its disgusting that cleveland is basically beating chicago with two players, irving and james. Where is all the depth chicago was supposed to have
karen says
Bcs. Love your posts … love that austin is contributing
CHearn says
@Karen-I thought the same thing, and those two players are hobbled.
BigCitySid says
-@ Karen, thank you, appreciate. Pertaining to the Cavs “basically beating chicago with two players, irving and james”, I love it. The only team I loathe more than the Bulls are the Celtics. Guess I never got over the 1990-91 NBA Finals. 🙁
-agree w/ all who realize our Lakers just need to draft the best talent available (rather than need by position) when their turn comes. My top five is basically chalk:
*Towns
*Okafor
*Mudiay
*Russell
*Winslow
@ R, agree, too many WC teams are light years ahead of the Lakers roster talent wise, which is why this is the perfect time to start building a solid foundation for future seasons. Big name free agents need not apply this upcoming season.
Craig W. says
Perhaps we might be advised not to wish for Tom Thibodeau as a replacement coach. He gets his teams to overperform, but that can only go on for a limited time. Then they 1) get injured from over use, 2) have a less effective bench, and 3) start to have issues with the coach. Humm! reminds me of another coach everyone thought was great. However, that coach got to learn with a team of HOF players before he went to his ‘demon coaching’ ways. His third team only won when he stepped back from coaching.
I don’t favor a players-coach, though I wouldn’t consider Pop a players-coach, but one that was able to build AND manage a rather complex grouping of players. Phil was fantastic at managing players and fitting them in, but his development/building of players over time was not as good as Pop – IMO. And his ego also ran afoul of two different, successful organizations. Anyway, I can see why there are so many coaches from Pop’s coaching tree. Too bad there aren’t more front offices modeled after that organization, because I think it takes both.
From a front office perspective, I don’t think every really good player fits into a team – al la Carmelo Anthony. Most, even HOF players, have to be able to fit some type of system. That is my issue with Lebron being the Cavs coach. The only really successful-player coach was Bill Russell, and he was gifted with another HOF team as well as having a ‘team’ ego, while playing in another era. P.S. Bill didn’t coach a long time.
tankyou says
Lebron James is still a beast. His jump shot has been basically broken until last nights game, and his 3pt shooting is trash–yet he still is dominating the game. He clearly turned his ankle big time, yet he seems unphased. When he goes into playoff mode, it reminds me of the relentlessness of Kobe/Jordan who took it up a notch beyond their other level intensity.
The bulls look to be done, despite Irving being gimpy and no Love. I think the Cavs have a legit shot of making the finals and losing, can’t see them beating the warriors or the Clippers with their depth issue. JR Smith and Shumpert have been big pick ups for the cavs a nice mix of instant offense and defense.
I still miss Magic Johnson though, nobody with his passing wizardry playing in the playoffs this year. So we have to wait until July to see what next years roster reset looks like, bah.
Darius Soriano says
Sid,
Trade speculation is allowed once their are confirmed reports from reliable reporters (Stein, Woj, Aldridge, Amick) that there are discussions between the two teams about specific players.
For example, a tweet/column/article/etc from one of the above mentioned guys stating “The Lakers and team X have had trade discussions about player(s) Y (Z/Q/R/S)” is fine to discuss. These guys are credible reporters who have legitimate sources and they are reporting on actual discussions.
But, if there’s a tweet that says something like “Player X on Team Y is said to be available in a trade. I have heard that the Lakers are interested” doesn’t really meet the threshold. Also, if it’s some off-name reporter saying the Lakers want a guy or just someone’s whimsical thoughts in the comments like “hey guys why don’t the Lakers just trade for player Y, he’s good and I think he could be had for this package”…none of that stuff is kosher either.
Hope this clears it up. You can also find a brief explanation in the commenting guidelines at the top of the page.
BigCitySid says
@ Craig W., no doubt, Pop deserves credit as a top coach…all time. But many forget how he became coach of the Spurs. Pop was in the front office, he fired and replaced Bob Hill, the successful coach of the Spurs in ’96-’97. The year their super star David Robinson suffered a season ending injury after only six games. Approx a dozen games after the injury, Bob Hill was out, and Pops coaching career in the NBA began.
In Bob Hill’s stint with the Spurs (two full seasons plus 20 games in ’96-’97) he coached his team to 59+ wins both seasons, the conf finals in ’94-’95, and the semi’s in ’95-’96.
Pops first full season he got Tim Duncan as a rookie and a returning David Robinson. Not only a NBA superstar, but a former Navel Officer who truly understood the meaning of personal self sacrifice and teamwork. In Pops 1st full season w/ Robinson & Duncan they won 56 games and lost in the semi’s, the following year, ’98-’99, they won the title.
This has happened before w/ Phil in Chicago & L. A., and it’s happened recently w/ Kerr in Golden State. Bob Hill’s coaching career could have been very different, as could Pop’s, if Pop didn’t fire and replace him a dozen games after the Spurs HoF David Robinson went down for the season after only six games.
BigCitySid says
@ Darius, appreciate the clarification on trade speculation.
Renato Afonso says
Darius,
Could you please just tell me if you read my mail? Since you didn’t reply I’m not sure you did…
Kevin says
@ Stuart: The Lakers are essentially starting at square 1.
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All the more reason to take this rebuild slowly. It’s impossible to build a team with a wide open competitive window in a year or two. We truly are looking at a 4 or 5 year process. Hopefully we keep this top pick and we can take a step forward.
Which brings me back to Jim’s promise. I believe he has two years left on it. That is not enough time to do this rebuild right. While I do not like Jim, I don’t want him to use our only real asset, cap space, willy-nilly in an effort to meet his self-imposed deadline.
Mitch has spoken about doing the rebuild the right way. However, Mitch reports to Jim not the other way around. At this point I almost want Jeanie to step in and say that everyone in the FO wants to build a winner but we aren’t going to be held hostage by an arbitrary deadline. We want the Lakers to be competitive long into the future — not just in a short window.
She knows in her gut whether Jim can do this job or not. If he is in over her head she doesn’t have to fire him she can move him to the side, let him keep his title, but allow Mitch or some badly needed new blood to lead the way.
As so many contributors have stated, this rebuild is not a slam dunk. We could very well find ourselves out of the playoff hunt for an extended period of time. Better to do it slowly and right.
Darius Soriano says
Renato,
I just replied to your email…