In the lead up to the NBA Draft on June 25th, we will look at several prospects who might be available when the Lakers make their selections. We have already looked at potential prospects for the team’s later picks, but today we zoom up to the top of the draft with a look at Karl Anthony Towns.
The draft lottery offered a wild swing of emotions I will not soon forget. In an instant I went from nervous wreck to jubilation. Franchises can be turned around when lottery luck shines on them just right. The Lakers, of course, hope they will be next to reap the benefits of said shining.
Things are and are not that simple, of course. The Lakers are ensured an ability to draft any but one player available in the draft; they will have any choice, but the one the Timberwolves take with the #1 overall selection. Rumors will swirl between now and draft night who Minnesota will take, but ask many fans in the Twin Cities area (and beyond) and they will tell you who the choice should be: Karl Anthony Towns, of course.
The six foot, ten inch big man who led his team to the Final Four in his lone college season is seen as a sure thing. And if you polled those who cheer for the Lakers, they’d tell you that is also who they want.
The reasons here are pretty clear. Towns is a fantastic prospect who offers a combination of size and skill not often seen. As a freshman at Kentucky he showed off an ability to carry the Wildcats’ offense for long (and key) stretches, helping to secure several wins in close games that preserved their undefeated regular season. He showed off a highly effective power post-up game that centered on jump hooks over his left shoulder via strong drop steps. He also was able to work the offensive glass effectively, using quick jumps and his long arms to secure caroms and then finish in traffic with power.
And then, of course, there is his defense. He possesses quick feet, both in terms of being able to slide with a ball-handler and when leaving the ground to challenge shots. He has excellent timing as a shot blocker and uses his length well to not only wipe away opponents’ attempts, but to deter them entirely.
As an NBA defender, it is not hard to envision him hedging out on a pick and roll and staying with a guard trying to turn the corner. It is also not hard to see him having the ability to hedge, recover, and then either challenge shots at the rim (on a ball handler or via the dive man) or go into secondary rotations if the ball is whipped around the court. His athleticism is that good. And while every young big man will struggle with the nuance of being a back line and secondary help defender when making the leap from college to the pros, Towns seems to possess the awareness and smarts to develop into a top notch difference maker on that end.
But wait, there’s more. As we saw with Julius Randle (and Anthony Davis before him), John Calipari does not always put his big men in positions to show off their complete offensive skill sets in game situations. Towns was mostly used as a power player in the post or as a dive man out of the pick and roll. But, as a recruit out of high school and, via highlights from a handful of his UK games, Towns showed can be more than that offensively. In a recent workout in Los Angeles, he showed how much more by flashing a nice jumper and more developed handle than I’d imagined:
After seeing that clip as well as this one from Chad Ford, I shared my first thoughts on twitter:
Towns' workout clips are…quite impressive. Also has me thinking his long term position may be a combo PF/C. Like LMA but w/ more defense.
— Darius Soriano (@forumbluegold) June 2, 2015
Towns’ jumper isn’t as smooth as LaMarcus Aldridge’s (or even Anthony Davis’). And his post game may not be as refined as Jahlil Okafor’s. And, at this young age, he’s not going to have the defensive impact of a guy like Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler, or Joakim Noah. But the fact his game, at its peak and when fully formed, can conjure images of those players speaks to why he is so coveted as a prospect.
When building a team, you want as many two-way players as possible. And Towns offers the potential to be excellent on both sides. As with any prospect as young as he is, there will be questions if he ever gets there. And, as implied in my twitter comment above, I am not yet sure if his best long term position will be at Center full time or if he will be best suited splitting time between both the big front court positions. But this is no indictment. Possessing this versatility and an ability to play from out at the three point line to the front of the rim is exactly what you would want from a big man in any era, not just the more three-point-happy, stretch-big movement we are seeing in today’s league.
All the desire in the world, though, won’t make him available. That decision will be made, mostly, by what the Timberwolves do with the #1 overall selection. And while there are rumors they prefer Okafor (or even D’Angelo Russell), I interpret that more as pre-draft posturing than anything else.
However, should the Lakers end up with Towns, I would be thrilled. He is the player I would want most from this draft. This takes nothing away from the other prospects (whose excellent skill sets I will look at another time), but the complete package and the room for growth is evident. And that is enough for me.
Ed says
I understand the support for KAT,and support it. But,I still want to see the Lakers workout Okafor,before making any final decision. He`s been working full time on his conditioning and skills;I would like to see the results. If the Lakers then had one guy rated well above the other, they might work out something with Min. to get him. Neither player is a finished product,so projected potential plays a big part in any evaluation.
Aaron says
I always take seriously what players get in great shape after college and before the draft. Bynum went from a fatty to beanpole for instance. That was a sign of better things to come. And sure enough he went from skinny rookie to muscular power house. Not only does this mean the player has at least some work ethic but it means they will now be more athletic since the last time we saw them. The rumor is Okafor has transformed his body. I’m a little worried Towns has been said to still have the college baby fat. But I’m sure we will see more in the coming weeks.
What you want is a player to be so naturally gifted even with the bad habits of college they still have a great body. But the next best thing is to see a prospect change their body once they become a professional and have the money for the right trainers and food preparers. What you don’t want to see is a complete lack of work ethic resulting in no difference in physical appearance come draft day. This usually means a player isn’t going to maximize his potential.
Btw… I’m not saying Okafor will now be a good enough athlete to be effective in the NBA. He looked so slow footed I doubt even with added athleticism he would be even close to as good as Towns. Having said that… I want to see what Okafor looks like with his new body…
R says
Durability, focus and the drive to impose one’s will on others are a huge part of the package, and I doubt anyone knows which of these two young guys have the edge in those areas.
don ford says
The Wolves’ have a real opportunity to mess with Kupchak as far as their intentions (if Towns is truly the Lakers’ must-have guy, which may be a premature assumption).
The more Saunders/Wolves express mixed intentions, the more they buy themselves something from the Lakers (say, the #27 pick) to assure that we #2 pickers get our first choice without risk. Could be a dicey game.
I’m no expert and don’t know who’s better than who, and I’m sure things are still yet premature just now. But superstars are made from two-way players, so what little I know about Towns intrigues me enormously. And to get the truly right player, it may be worth spilling a pick … I guess we’ll find out…
Justin says
I am wonder what would happen if the Wolves took Russell. Some mild rumors that they would trade Rubio and take Russell so I doubt it happen, but the draft could be thrown into a crazy whirlwind with just one pick. I bet this draft doesn’t look anything like the mocks we keep seeing. I get why the Lakers want to work out the top 8 players. Experts get it wrong every year (just look at all the bust of the last decade). Mitch has to really look closely before choosing anyone. All that being said I am deeply rooted in the Towns/Okafor camp. I don’t think it is as cut and dry as people think. Kwahi couldn’t shoot coming into the draft, Draymond was consider only an offensive player, Beasly was the second coming, Drummond was a player no one wanted because he might not like basketball, etc. Okafor was the number 1 pick from July-February. I don’t buy what the experts say. They did the same thing to Wiggins last year (number one until they were kicked from the tourny then it was everyone but him). I am still torn between Towns and Okafor. So excited about draft night.
david h says
darius: since May 19th; still chanting OAK – A – FOR MINN – A – SOTA; whatever it takes to make it happen.
on a serious note; gotta love the way towns shoots and makes his free throws.
Go lakers
Shaun says
Maybe we trade 34 but not 27 … too many needs on the team unless we also pick up like 2 rotation players as part of the trade …. not worth it for us – okafor or towns we will be fine
R says
Much nicer than dropping out of the top five ….
R says
Gotta admit Towns looks like a total stud in the clip previous post.
Robert says
R: Agreed – it was nice to get some luck finally and keep this pick. To continue from last thread, I think it is basically – IF Towns is available – THEN pick him – ELSE pick Okafor. Beyond that I am not looking for much this summer, and in fact would probably be OK with literally nothing much else. Again – a plan we can execute. If we get fancy with the pick, or spend a lot of money, we could dig the hole deeper. The only calls we should answer are if Gilbert calls with a LeBron trade, Holt calls and offers up Pop, or anyone calls to buy the team.
anyonemouse says
Some additional color on KAT, off the court.To me, that’s just as important – the ability to handle the glare in LA cannot be ignored.
http://hoopshype.com/columns/david-nurse/karl-anthony-towns-is-a-renaissance-man
Another nice read, comparing him, numbers-wise against some of the other studs to have come out in recent times:
http://www.si.com/nba/2015/05/29/nba-draft-karl-anthony-towns-jahlil-okafor-frank-kaminsky-delon-wright
Okafor reminds me of Al Jefferson – good offensive player, but hasn’t shown enough on defense yet. Though, based on this article, it appears as if his offensive prowess far outweighs KATs defensive acumen:
http://www.si.com/nba/2015/04/02/jahlil-okafor-karl-anthony-towns-nba-draft-duke-kentucky
CATS8884 says
Great post Darius, Towns is the real deal but I will be happy with either big.
Aaron your sources are incorrect about KAT, I stood next to him in person at a UK game at the end of the season and this “baby fat” you speak of is false. The guy also was just measured to have 8.1% body fat.
People expecting special things out of Russell will be disappointed, good college player but he will be just another guard in the NBA. Calipari passed on recruiting him in favor of Devin Booker if that tells you anything (and Russell is a Kentucky native). I don’t think Cal is all that as a coach, but in terms of evaluating talent he is the best there is, you can also judge based off how guys do in the NBA (granted he usually always gets top recruits, but the players he doesn’t get that are considered top recruits don’t usually pan out). Russell is an average NBA athlete who is an inefficient volume shooter, and against halfway decent NCAA talent he struggled.
I would totally offer Minnesota #27 and 2 to take the top spot if it means securing Towns, he is a franchise changing center. This draft is not that great in talent after the first 20 or so picks. You are drafting average bench players that may never make an impact, some of the same players you think will be there at 27 might even be there at 34.
Ed says
I`ve read that KAT will will only interview with Minn.and Lakers,no workouts. I wonder what Okafor will do. Might give him a chance to work his ass off for the team or teams he really wants to play for. Should be an interesting month of Jun.
Treylake says
Its seems KAT has the most upside, however Okafor is no sloppy second. Its possible Okafor may be the better of the two. For that reason, won’t be surprised if wolves took Okafor. Either player represents a huge franchise building block in Lakers return to relevance.
anyonemouse says
Here’s the full workout video: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Karl-Anthony-Towns-Workout-Video-and-Interview-5043/
Lil pau says
Isn’t this game theory at its finest? If minn would accept a 2nd rounder plus the 2 for the 1, doesn’t it suggest they want JO anyway in which case, why give up the 2nd rounder?
Craig W. says
Lil pau,
It’s all about whether or not we are willing to accept Okafor. If we think there is a real difference, we should trade. If we would like either, but prefer Towns, then we accept whatever Minny doesn’t want with no complaints. Of course, we fans won’t ever hear how the front office feels, after the fact, unless a trade actually goes down.
Hindi says
No matter who we want or who is better, Lakers are picking who the Wolves will leave. All the comparisons, analyses would have made more sense if we had the 1st pick.
I am pretty sure, we pick who ever is left among the two big guys.
Praying that who ever we get out of the 2, turns out to be a better player.
R says
I totally agree with Robert.
Hoping the Lakers pick who’s left; no need to give away what’s left of the store to move up a slot.
It’s not like the T Wolves will make a deal just because the Lakers crook a finger at them anyway.
Another factor to consider: the #2 pick comes at a nominal $500,000/year discount vs. the #1 pick.
P. Ami says
Guys, it seems you are sort of missing Lil’ pau’s point.
There is no way anybody knows who will be available at the 27th pick. You can cast a net and hope you’ve done so in waters full of fish but that is all you really get out of a pick that high.
Meanwhile, having the first pick, one gets to choose who they want. It’s a 100% you are getting the player you want. You don’t give that up just to cast a net in the 27th pick of the draft waters. The only reason you do so is if you are sure you are getting the player you want with the second pick.
Where the Lakers to make a trade with Minny, its only to get the player they want. Since Minny only makes this trade if they are sure they get their player with the 2nd pick, you can assume they will take the same player they would have taken with the 1st pick as well. In other words, there is really no point to trading from #2 to #1. The asset at #27 is too non-specific to dissuade Minny from their guy.
What could happen is that a team may want to trade up for Towns and offer Minnesota a specific asset. This works if Minnesota prefers some other player in the draft. This is probably why the rumors over a trade of Rubio has spread. That opens up the possibility that the team may be open to taking the 3rd or 4th pick and grabbing someone from the next tier.
So, New York has no assets besides their pick. They are not making a trade with Minnesota. This leaves Philly. Ask yourself, does Philly need another big?
Is it possible that another team steps in and you get a 3-team deal? I suppose. Maybe the Lakers hear rumblings. I haven’t. The point is, the most likely scenario is that Minnesota will know who they like and will draft him at any position they draft at. That is the guarantee they received when winning the lottery. They will not trade away that asset, which means the Lakers should just sit it out and let Minnesota take their man. Unless there is a convoluted trade scenario that can’t currently be accounted for, why waste the #27 pick for nothing?
Aaron says
Weird. At the top of this page I posted about the trade rumor I heard re late picks for the top pick. I guess it was deleted because trade speculation where someone else got to talk about the same thing. Anyhow… Basicly this comes up because nobody likes being strong armed. And right now the wolves are feeling it from towns and his reps. They want a sweetener thrown in so they don’t feel completely taken Advantage of. But here is the deal… If we trade with them we show our cards and lose any bargaining power we had in the process. It’s a tricky situation. Part of the ability to manipulate Minny is because Towns wont workout for them. If we let them know we want him so badly it makes it more apperent that he did a secret workout for us and we were very impressed. That’s all potentially Minny meeds to know to believe in Towns completely and call his bluff. This is a dance. One false step and we are kicked off DWTS. It will be very interesting to hear years down the road what everyone’s play was.
Aaron says
R,
Very interesting. I didn’t know the salary difference was that great.
R says
Aaron, I was surprised too. I saw the number in a LA Times article by Zach Helfand on or about May 22. When I emailed him to ask for clarification, he kindly sent me a link with all sorts of interesting info. Unfortunately so far I’ve been unable to post the link here. But yeah, the rookie scale differential between #1 and #2 is $500,000 +/- per year; the actual salary negotiated can be 80-120% of that scale.
drama says
I like Towns a whole lot and would love to see him in purple and gold, but let’s not shortchange Okafor. They are two of the very best big men I have seen come out in the past twenty years, comparable to Anthony Davis and LaMarcus Aldridge when they entered the NBA. One comment above said that superstars are made of two way players, which is mostly true but not in the case of Shaq, who wasn’t such a great defender when he started either. To me Okafor is the best offensive big I have seen since Shaq, and I would venture to guess that the Lakers management has been yearning for a new Shaq ever since he left in a silly quarrel with Kobe. We have been equally salivated and disappointed by Bynum and (briefly) Howard, one without a brain and the other without a heart (like in the Wizard of Oz). So I would go all out for the Lakers picking Okafor as the number 2 pick, and yes, teach him some defense and let Byron earn his salary. Seeing him hold the basketball in his large hands reminds me again of Shaq, and the old expression “Shaq’s in the paint” (= basketball’s QED) can potentially be replaced by “Okafor’s in the paint.” The one way in which Towns may be preferable is that he will mesh well with Randle. For the Okafor-Randle front line to work, we need to get a strong, defensive minded small forward.
JB says
If Minnesota wants to trade to #2, it means they want Okafor and think the Lakers want Towns and are hoping to use the Lakers’ uncertainty to acquire extra assets. Leave them with the #1, force them to pick Okafor and don’t give them anything. Or let them take Towns and offer them Okafor for Towns plus some extra players/picks like the Webber-Hardaway trade. If Flip is this dumb trying to sweat Mitch, rob him blind.
For the record, I really like Towns but would be perfectly happy with Okafor.
Justin says
@Drama, does that mean whomever we take is missing courage (to keep with your Wizard of Oz theme). I do think Okafor is a lot like Shaq. Poor FT shooter, big enough to get every rebound but somehow ends up with just 10, dominates the paint (Shaq more with muscle and Okafor more with post footwork), both can pass out of double teams (although Okafor seems so advanced for his age here I could see him becoming one of the best passing bigs ever). Okafor can block shots and protect the paint but can’t guard the PNR to save his life (exactly like Shaq). Which leads me to believe Okafor will be much better than people think (not necessarily as good as Shaq, but much better than Al Jefferson). Towns to me is actually a unique player, but that doesn’t necessarily make him better (but could be). There is an interesting article that says that Okafor is a safer pick to reach his ceiling and become a star (http://www.canishoopus.com/2015/6/3/8721085/in-praise-of-jahlil-okafor). Towns actually has a high bust chance but higher ceiling. Interesting to think of Towns as a feast of famine tell of player (though 12% isn’t that high). Especially since Towns ceiling isn’t actually that much higher.
NCLaker says
@JB, my thoughts exactly. I’d be happy with either. Flip needs to make a decision, that’s what having the #1 pick means. Why should we help him out?
14.1 says
Reposting from the last thread:
According to this piece, it looks like the team may be considering international prospects for the later rounders. Draft express has the Lakers picking a center from Spain and a PF/C from the Virgin Islands. I know it’s a mock draft, but if there is any possibility of it then it’s interesting to speculate what the team will do with the no. 2 pick. Obviously the team will not use all three picks on PC/C positions since there’s a need at pretty much every position. Curious about what folks think about this mock, the draftees mentioned, and any potential implications for the no. 2 pick, especially if Mini takes KAT.
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2015/6/2/8716037/la-lakers-nba-draft-2015-spain-international-scout
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft-extended.php
Craig W. says
drama,
Count me in the camp that would take either Towns or Okafor and be a happy fan. I tend to prefer Towns because of all the talk, but I can also see why Minny might take Okafor with #1.
However, I think we are going to go for a defensive minded SF in any case. Therefore, I don’t really worry about how Randle will fit in. From what I know of him and his recent workouts, I think he is going to start for the Lakers and be just fine at PF.
I want us to resign Davis and keep Black + Kelly because I want a deep front court we can experiment with. If we don’t sign a good big with #27 or #34, I want to keep Hill also – @$9M he isn’t going to strap us down next year, and will come off the books in time for the 2016 cap increase.
smokedaddy says
We’re all speculating here without really knowing where Minny stands on Okafor. And since this is key to whether and how much sweetener we may want to offer, this is like walking a tightrope in the dark. Its probably best to quantify things a little, starting with how much more we value Towns over Okafor. Like most here I’d be happy with Okafor but ecstatic with Towns. I’d rate Towns a 10/10 and Okafor an 8/10 if they both hit their peak. I’d quantify our 34th pick as 1 pt above a journeyman free agent. So, if I think its 50/50 that Minny takes Okafor, then giving up the 34th is a wash. If its say 75/25 they take Towns then I make that trade. But… here’s where game theory comes into play. It all comes down to who the better liar is and who has the best intelligence on the other team. If they play this right we’ll be caught by surprise.
Craig W. says
smokedaddy,
As I said above, I doubt we will hear anything. The only way we will know something is going on is if there is a trade – the result will be obvious.
However, Okafor is enough of an offensive force down low that Minny may very well decide to take him. We won’t mind getting Towns to combine for more defense. Otherwise we are simply ‘stuck’ with an offensive force down low – and we will have to hire Rick Barry to teach him how to shoot freethrows.
Oldtimer says
Towns or Okafor, any of them is a better choice than Sacre or the Centers used last season. Both are diamonds in the rough and need to fraternize, jell and “feeling you” of NBA standards before any of them can contribute. See the first 10 in ’14 draft, they are still proving their worth to their teams. It takes to get adjusted when you are playing with the pros. What is important is for FO carefully choose the 9 players who will fill up the ’15 roster. Lakers need strong starters per position and a reliable roster. Two or three misfits in the starting line-up could really bring down the team. Last season, we always have two or three dam-dam playing at any time who are not supposed to be with the Lakers. If you watched all the games, you know who they are?
smokedaddy says
Craig. Would you give up anything to swap picks? How much?
LordMo says
The pick is Winslow…he will be a Superstar!
Should have been Zach LeVine last year and our backcourt would have been set for years to come with him and Clarkson.
Towns has more potential but Okafor is more polished but why take them?
Draft Winslow & Norman Powell sign Monroe and start the KLove campaign!
LKK says
Could be that the health of Nikola Pekovic will play a role in Minny’s choice. He’s a pretty good low post scorer. If Pekovic is recovered from his season ending ankle woes and is still a part of Minny’s plans, KAT may complement him well. Early indications are that Karl can stretch the floor and offer strong defense. His versatility will allow him to match up at the 4 or 5. If the Wolves are looking to replace Pek, Okafor may be the right choice. The ball is in their court.
CATS8884 says
People the guys at draft express have no idea what they are doing, they had Cliff Alexander before the season at #2 over Towns and behind Okafor at #1. Now he has Alexander as a second round pick. The best way to judge talent is to watch them play in college, and for any international guys you hope and pray they aren’t busts like so many recent Euros.
Rubenowski says
I’m torn between the two. I have no idea who I prefer, though I think Okafor is the safer pick.
But you know what this means??? Towns and Okafor will be in the West, along with the other great centers: Gasol, Cousins, Davis and Howard (ok not so great). Add two more to that list and the West just got a lot tougher.
Justin says
Yeah somehow all the centers end up west. It is like the west is destined to be bigger. Maybe that’s why Embiid got hurt last year, only the 76ers didn’t care about fate and took him anyways.
Anonymous says
Rubenowski – regarding centers in the West: Gasoline likely going to Knicks. Davis is a PF. Cousins and Howard are good but have flaws. Both Towns or Okafor become top talents (centers) in the West
bluehill says
It seems like picking Towns or Okafor will necessitate two different style of offenses. Okafor’s strengths in the post dictate an post-oriented offense that highlights those strengths. Towns seems like he is a little more versatile and could play in the post (but clearly not as well initially as Okafor) but also away from the basket so the offense could be a little more up tempo.
The two teams playing for the championship do not have a dominant post player, and the Warriors interestingly beat 2 teams with pretty good post players. You could argue that the offense styles are changing from the days of Mikan, Wilt, Kareem and Shaq. Of course, these players are once in a generation. I don’t know if Okafor is that type of player although clearly he is very good. Is he as good as Anthony Davis coming out of college?
eduardo cantillan says
Lakers must pick any of the 2 big men.. or they will regret their decision ..big men come very often.
Craig W. says
Neither Bogut nor Mozgov are slouches at center. If there is a Shaq around, then you will see a more center oriented offense thrive. Okafor could be that center. There are fewer back-to-the-basket centers because big men are coping Dirk, not Shaq, as they are coming up. However, that doesn’t mean a good b-t-b-c won’t bring a championship to a team.
The game is more open and the rules favor this, but neither of two teams still playing is deficient at the center position.
If we draft Okafor, Byron will be a pretty good coach – as he learned the NBA around Kareem and his teams had to play Shaq.
Mid-Wilshire says
The web site nbadraft.net rates its prospects according to 12 categories on a scale of 1-10. I don’t entirely agree with all of their numerical ratings but, for the most part, I think they’re fairly accurate. I’m summarizing the scores for both Towns and Okafor below. Karl-Anthony Towns’s scores are given first, Okafor’s second:
Athleticism: 8 (Towns), 7 (Okafor)
Size: 10 (Towns), 9 (Okafor)
Defense: 8 (Towns), 7 (Okafor)
Strength: 8 (Towns), 9 (Okafor)
Quickness: 7 (Towns), 7 (Okafor)
Leadership: 8 (Towns), 8 (Okafor)
Jump Shot: 9 (Towns), 8 (Okafor)
NBA Ready: 7 (Towns), 8 (Okafor)
Rebounding: 9 (Towns), 8 (Okafor)
Potential: 9 (Towns), 8 (Okafor)
Post Skills: 6 (Towns), 10 (Okafor)
Intangibles: 9 (Towns), 9 (Okafor)
That bottom line is this: Towns scores 98 points; Okafor scores 98 points.
For what it’s worth, when I applied my own numerical evaluation, I had Towns at 99 and Okafor at 98. The larger point, then, is simple: as different as these two players are, they are both VERY good. They offer different strengths (and weaknesses). When all is said and done, they are, in a sense, almost equal.
Whichever one the Lakers should choose — if either — they will have chosen, I believe, their center of the future. It would be difficult to go wrong with either one.
R says
Both centers making big plays in the early going this evening ….
LKK says
Barnes and Thompson have to step it up for the Dubs
Shaun says
Dubs missing a lot of bunnies …. think they are gonna rock the 2nd half
AusPhil says
That was a terrible OT for Cleveland in basically every way it could be. If Irving’s knee is serious, that could be the series.
Which would not make me sad.
Nick says
My take on the draft – and I have spent significant time evaluating the talent in this pool.
****My conclusion: should do everything possible to acquire KAT & Robert Upshaw.
Combined if all pans out, you have a modern day Duncan & Robinson combo that will dominate the league on both ends for years to come. Worst case, you have a solid workhorse in KAT and a burnout.
KAT: once in a generation talent that is even more dynamic than Anthony Davis. As a big if you have the work ethic to develop a jump shot, handles, etc. the low post offensive polish will come with time and the lakers coaching resources….. With Okafor, how much more can you refine his low post polish? Very concerning seeing how he handled himself when he picked up fouls in college too. Let’s face it guys the position of Center has evolved in the NBA
Upshaw : an elite athlete, very long, could anchor the Center position, and let KAT flourish on offensive as a 4, and essentially a ball hawk defensively at the 4 – while defenders are funneled to Upshaw directly. As far as the off the court issues – listen to this kid interview, sounds as polished as Derek fisher. Additionally the kid has gotten multiple life coaches, and a great support system from what I’ve read.
How often do you have the potential to draft twin 7 footers with the skill level these two have – I hope Mitch at least considers it
TLDR; KAT & Upshaw
Nick says
But man imagine this future if these guys pan out…
1. Clarkson
2. —> free agent (Westbrook hopefully haha)
3. Randle
4. KAT
5. Upshaw
All long, all athletic… Regardless Go Lakeshow
ertroy says
To quote David Gardner on the SI article debating Towns v Okafor “the team picking second will have the easiest decision in the draft”…(thanks anyonemouse for the link)
Gardner makes a quite obvious yet overlooked point: pressure lies at the door of the team picking 1st. As a fan worried about some of our FO decision making(who I’m I kidding its been a mess!), I sure am glad they dont get a chance to potentially make the wrong choice.
That alone should allow the fan base to just be glad that we get whichever big falls 2nd. Barring the slight chance that our “beloved” FO dont go the Mudiay/Russell bandwagon freight-wreck-train (the former who I like immensely btw)
I advice us to just chill back enjoy the rest of the post season knowing fortune and Gods grace has favored us once more 😉
BigCitySid says
“Okafor best offensive big man since Shaq”. Wow, how quickly we forget Bynum.
R says
Good point Big City; let’s also keep ‘Drew in mind as a reminder of how fragile these guys are …
Craig W. says
Gale Sayers had spectacular years, but today we hardly know him. Barry Sanders was with us longer.
PurpleBlood says
well said Big City –
___
Re. Finals:
I was kinda giddy yesterday before game 1; we may be far from even sniffing this last round of the playoffs {though of course i hope i´m proven wrong 😉 }, but it´s still exciting when it rolls around. Go Dubs
Justin says
Want to point out people are under rating Okafor on the offense. Not only will he score in the post but his passing out of the post is amazing. You build an offense around it. You will get open threes for teammates and shots at the rim. He reminds me so much of Shaq but no one sees it because he uses footwork instead of strength in the post. He has all the same strengths and weakness of Shaq. Great post scoring, strong (by the time he is 25 he will likely be the strongest post player in the league), good rim protector, horrible FT shooter, Horrible PNR defender, dominate scorer at the basket, good passer out of the post, good rebounder who should be dominate. That reads Shaq 100%. People think post offense is dead because they see analytics saying post players only score 0.991 PPP in the post. But a dominating post score will force doubles because they score so easy. This leads to wide open threes. Don’t underestimate great post scoring in an era where defenses are not designed to play against it. When the Heat won championships, it was Lebron in the post that destroyed teams. He was so devastating because he could score AND pass. Guys like Al Jefferson can only score (plus that team has zero shooting).
Calvin Chang says
Justin – Big difference between Okafor and Shaq. Okafor has regular big size. He uses footwork and vast array of power and finesse moves to score in the post. But a good defender like Dandre Jordan, Bogut or Tyson Chandler can guard him. Shaq was unstoppable because of his bulk and size. Shaq used his size and 320+ lbs bulk to get deep position. When Shaq got the ball deep, it wasn’t possible to physically stop him. Automatic dunk.
Calvin Chang says
Against Okafor, a good defender has a chance to counter Jahlil’s moves by anticipation and good footwork. Against Shaq, a good defender had no chance to stop Shaq once Diesel got it deep, because Shaq was too wide and strong. The shot blocker cannot get an angle to contest and would often just take a spill because he’d literally bounce off Shaq.
R says
Truly shaq in his prime was a force of nature. He would just twitch and people would go flying off in various directions.
However, if Okafor proves to be even a reminder of Shaq I’ll be happy. And for $4 million/year? Even sweeter!
bmcburney says
Outside of the top college players, I am not familiar with most the talent in this draft. However, I have seen Delon Wright play.
DraftExpress has Delon Wright as the last player picked in the first round. Of course, I realize that is mostly meaningless in terms of where he might actually go when the actual draft is actually held. Nevertheless, it seems to me that Delon Wright is a very, very good player and superior to most guys picked last in the first round in most years. I conclude this is a very deep draft. I would not give up a chance at a player of that quality or better in this draft just to move up from 1 to 2 in this draft. Nor would I give up a player picked just four slots afterward to move up from 1 to 2 in this draft. If players like Delon Wright are going to be available at 30, I want more picks in this draft.
Darius Soriano says
I’m going to write about Okafor in the next few days. But, I’ll say this, just as I did on twitter regarding a totally different topic: basketball, in its simplest form, is about angles and positioning. If you understand those things and can obtain them, on either side of the ball, you will win your match up more often than not.
When you can gain positioning and exploit angles, you create leverage, which only furthers your advantage. One of the reasons I think Okafor will be a very good pro is because he seems to understand how to exploit angles, positioning, and leverage in order to gain advantages. He’s also strong as a 19 year old and will only get stronger as his body matures.
Shaq was a once in a multiple generation player due to his combination of size, quickness, and athleticism. Okafor is clearly not that. But the underrated part of Shaq’s game was how good his feet were and how he understood how to leverage his good feet + his strength via primary and counter moves. Okafor does do similar things, in a smaller frame than Shaq. He reads his opponent well and naturally finds ways to exploit the cracks that occur in individual post defense.
R says
Bmcburney – exactly. Look at the Warriors: super deep. Don’t think you can get that way just by buying FAs.
R says
I’m not a premier judge of basketball talent, but the first time I saw Shaq play I was totally knocked out by his footwork.
So yeah, totally amazing part of his game.
And if Okafor already understands angles and positioning so well at age 19, I’d say, look out league the Lakers are BACK! (Missed us?)
CHearn says
Here’s the thing about the number 2 pick: He’ll always be incentivized to prove that he was the clear choice as number one. The second pick in the draft will always have that edge to his game. Any center that joins the Lakers has three categories to fit in the organizational structure: (1) Join the annals of the great Lakers centers, i.e., Jabbar, Chamberlain, Mikan, Gasol, and O’Neal; (2) Be a marginal low motivated center, similar to Campbell; Or, a megalomaniac like Bynum.
R says
Well I’m inclined to give ‘Drew the benefit of the doubt due to his injury travails. Even so, he was a valuable player often enough.
Nick says
Redundant w my last post, but I would love someone else’s point of view on pairing either okafor/KAT at PF, and then selecting Upshaw w one of our other picks, and putting him at C.
If upshaw didn’t have the off the court issues, this guy I believe would be a top 5 prospect – dominant defender, Deandre Jordan like on offense
Any thoughts? Seems like a solidified front court for the next 10+ years if upshaw can stay out of trouble
LKK says
PBT is reporting that Kyrie Irving is out for the remainder of the playoffs. An MRI revealed a fractured kneecap. His expected recovery time is 3-4 months.
Ed says
Two out of three gone for the Cavs,and so are their chances.I think Okafor will will come in for an extensive workout for the Lakers,but I wonder if he`ll do the same for Minn.and how this will affect Minn choice.
Aaron says
Darius,
Understanding angles is nice… But it’s the least important part of being a basketball player. There are guys that have great coordination/skill but don’t have the quickness, speed and leaping ability to succeed in the NBA. Closer to the draft I’ll have a breakdown of all the top prospects but Okafor to me is in that camp with Christian Laitner. Guys who were dominant in college but couldn’t have much success in the pros… And all their geometry know how couldn’t help them.
Anon says
Tough break for the Cavs. I hope LBJ gives the Warriors a tough time. The last thing I want to see is a finals sweep.
Chris J says
But it’s the least important part of being a basketball player.
———–
Again, I have not seen Okafor play so this is not to say he’s going to be good or bad as a pro, but I disagree in discounting the importance of being fundamentally sound vs. simply being a good athlete. Kevin McHale was as good a low-post player as anyone and he had no quickness nor hops; Tim Duncan doesn’t out-quick or out-leap anyone but he still gets it done. JaVale McGee is a better athlete but is nowhere close to being as good, for example. Elden Campbell is another.
I hope Okafor’s ceiling is much higher than Laettner’s as a pro because I suspect he’s who the Lakers will land. He’s younger entering the NBA than Laetnner was as a four-year guy at Duke, so there’s room to believe Okafor will still develop physically.
And while you’d like more from a Top Three pick, it was not as though Laetnner was a complete NBA flop. He lasted a dozen+ years, averaged 13 ppg and made an All-Star team. Not stellar, but to say he didn’t have much success is a bit harsh.
Robert says
Aaron: Geometry does help. We won 5 titles with the triangle,
“Our offense is like the Pythagorean theorem: There is no answer!”
grumpy says
Aaron, I completely disagree. If it was all about being athletic, Wesley Johnson would be a top 25 player. Skill is the most important component of a player’s game. How do you think Duncan is able to be as effective as he is year after year? It certainly isn’t his Blake Griffin hops.
Of course athleticism matters, but in my opinion, it’s one of the most overrated aspects of the game. Many GMs will pick players based on how high they jump and plenty turn out to be busts.
Back to Okafor, he is a highly skilled player. At this point, he’s better than many big men in the league from a footwork and feel for the game perspective. Also, while not extremely athletic, he does have good quickness.
After watching the latest clip that Darius posted, I put Towns back as the number one prospect, but let’s not act like Okafor isn’t a special talent.
Aaron says
Grumpy,
Skill is part of athleticism. It’s coordination. In basketball it’s hand/eye coordination. In soccer skill is foot/eye coordination. Christian Leitner and Okafor have the coordination part down… But they lack the other aspects of athletisism that you need to be as effective at the highest level. And btw… Westley Johnson isn’t a great NBA athlete. He can jump… That’s about it. He isn’t strong and has little quickness or coordination.
And I haven’t sealed the fate of Okafor just yet. He might have transformed his body enough where he can have enough of the other athletic traits to succeed.
Jason says
Long time reader, rare poster, been here since before Darius was running the site…
I really need to know, Aaron, can you please let us all know what makes you think you’re a basketball expert? Dude, you’re a legend in your own mind… It’s all good for people to come here and give there two cents, but you come around acting like some legendary X’s and O’s guy whose opinion is better than everyone else’s… Getting really old.
Rubenowski says
Hey what do you guys think of my top ten of all time?
Jordan
Russel
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
LBJ/Jerry West
Come on, let’s talk about this.
Aaron says
Rubenowski,
Can’t have guys in there that can only play one side of the ball. Russell was a 6-7 center who shot 44 percent from the field and Bird, Magic, and West could’t play defense. Larry Bird btw is in my all time overrated team (where a lot of other white American players reside).
Jason,
What makes you think I’m not a basketball expert? We all have our opinions. Some are better than others. Some posters are better than others. Some readers are better than others. And some readers are meant to just be readers.
Aaron says
I was born with just two skills in life… To know basketball and to know I know basketbal 🙂
mindcrime says
Ruben……tough to leave the big O out of the top ten….
rubenowski says
Alright, the Big O can go with LBJ and West. And theres no way Bird is overrated, and no way LBJ is better than Bird.
Leadership > two-wayness.
Rings do count when talking about the top 10.
Craig W. says
Rings only count for a ‘bit’ IMO. If Wilt Chamberlain couldn’t win by himself, then nobody could. The star system has been emphasized to make the NBA a more popular game, but in the process the fans have lost track of just how important a team, working together, is to winning.
Bill Russell is a perfect example of this. He was picked by Boston because of his defense and turned out to have very high leadership qualities. The thing is Boston had the scorers, but Russell changed the defensive game of NBA basketball. He could score better – like Shaq he had to be closer to the basket – but his teammates provided the scoring and he willingly concentrated on the other side of the ball. He was a very high IQ player.
The Celtics won because they had a defensive monster, an all-star cast, and a Jackson-like coach (best strength was to put the pieces together properly, not develop them).
No one, absolutely no one, was able to stop Wilt Chamberlain, but he couldn’t beat a superior team and the only time he had great teammates in the 60s was in Philly for one year. He beat Russell and the Celtics that year.
This is the reason I don’t believe in anything resembling GOAT. That and the fact that our minds just can’t wrap themselves around something we haven’t seen in sports – I call it human brain design.
DonFord says
Top 10 goat lists are fun, really fun, but can easily derail any post’s comment list.
Hopefully our #2 pick ends up on those lists in time! ha
For the record… Wilt absolutely has to be on such a list; and, um Aaron? West was a high caliber defender with long arms and a feared defensive reputation.
Robert says
All Time: The convo is an individual thing and fun to talk about but there is no 100% correct answer. Rings and conference Championships are important in my opinion. Guys like Karl Malone do get scored down for that. They are not the all determining factor however. Robert Horry was awesome but not in the top 10. Another thing is the eras. This is a Lakers board. Not including Mikan and including Russell is not acceptable : ) They both played a different sport where peach baskets were used. My feeling is the modern era started in the 70’s and really in 1980 with Bird and Magic. The stuff from the 50′ and 60’s is like pre Super Bowl NFL stuff, or 1800’s college stuff. In any case Mikan dominated the 50’s totally, so either include him or take Russell off. Having Russell at #2, Bird at #5 and Mikan below 10 is something I would expect on the wall of a bar in Boston. My top 5 are: 1) MJ 2) KAJ 3) Kobe 4) Magic 5) Shaq/Duncan. Please do a comparison of any of these guys to Bird and it would be comical in terms of accomplishment. Also please consult the film to see why Russell and Mikan are on a different list. Oh sorry that’s right there is no film : ) No film of the Yale NCAA football titles from the 1800’s either.
Patrick Lanigan says
My preference is to draft KAT and make a run at Marc Gasol, allowing Towns to play that stretch 4 while forming the best interior D in the league. Then, he could spell Gasol at the 5 (extending Gasol’s career) while working with Randle at the 4.
Rubenowski says
Patrick,
That’s very interesting and sounds pretty good. But if people are right about Towns, would that stunt his development?
To those that say Flip likes low-post players,
Is it really well accepted that Flip likes low-post players? Cuz KG was never really a low post threat. He was very trigger happy from mid-range. How did Flip feel about that? He obviously did not reign him in. I really don’t know the answer to this, so I am asking.
I’m still flip-flopping over Towns and Okafor, though my heart says Okafor (call me old fashioned.) But if The Mitch believes in his pick, whomever it is, then The Mitch should do whatever it takes to swap picks. I believe in Mitch, and I’m not sold on Flip going for Okafor. It looks like Flip does not want the pressure of picking the lesser of the two big men.
PurpleBlood says
Agree with Rubenowski, that´s a nice scenario Patrick.
___
With Irving out the Cavs aren´t gonna take the trophy home. & as Chick used to point out, losing top guys is really a shame when these types of games roll around.
(Good luck to Kyrie, & by the way, nice block on Curry at that juncture dude; solid.)
Calvin Chang says
Aaron may lack humility, but his basketball mind is sharp. His confidence brings a lot of flavor to this discussion board.
Calvin Chang says
There’s too much debate about Okafor vs Towns here – but that discussion is a bit moot because Minny picks first and the big left over becomes a Laker. Picking second takes a lot of pressure off Mitch.
Calvin Chang says
Ranking top players is very subjective, but one thing I can say for sure is that Lebron is definitely better than Larry Bird. And Larry Legend isn’t overrated. It’s just that Lebron is simply great. 5 straight finals appearances as the main team quarterback. If you replaced Carmelo with Lebron at the start of the season with that same Knicks lineup, it’s a 50-win team.
Chibi says
The cavs gm just claimed Kyrie suffered a contact injury. That is a lie.
Ed says
This will be Game Theory in action,maybe a case study for future students. Making the other guy think you have the best info,and then get what you really wanted. The interview process can be just as important as athleticism and skills in the workout,when two players are as close as KAT and Okafor.
Vasheed says
@Nick,
I have been highlighting Upshaw for a while as someone to target later in the draft. I consider his talent as you do to be unquestionable. His character is what is in question and after seeing his interview as you have I consider him an acceptable risk in the late first round.
In the previous posting I suggested taking Russell with the 2nd pick and later taking Upshaw if Towns was off the board. I consider the league as the rules are written to be more of a guard’s league then a center’s league. I also think Russell is an obvious match with Clarkson while Okafor not so much with Randle.
Now in the scenario you are questioning if Towns is available to the Lakers I would definitely take him as I believe he is the best player in the draft. I would as you still take Upshaw later in the draft. I would envision it possible that the line up you proposed might some times be used but I would not be sure about penciling that in as my starting line up. I believe you mentioned the Twin Towers of Robinson and Duncan or I could add Randolph and Gasol today as examples of success. However, we don’t have to think far beyond Pau and Dwight as combos that didn’t work terribly well. I think a combo of Upshaw, Towns, and Randle might look more like the Lakers group of Odom, Bynum and P. Gasol. Sure Bynum and Gasol played together but Odom was more the glue guy that played beside either Bynum or Gasol that made the line ups work. At this moment I’m not sure if Towns can play PF full time next to Upshaw or if Randle is capable of playing SF full time.
barry_g says
there’s been a lot of talk about “gravity”, now that we have analytics to quantify how much a player draws in the opposing defense. one thing that intrigues me about okafor is not just that he can be a high gravity guy, but a high gravity big man. his potential advantage over perimeter gravity guys like curry and korver is that he can additionally punish the defense via foul trouble (both in getting the opposing team into earlier penalty situations as well as limiting the minutes of key opposing bigs). if he truly has that potential, then he can be a nash/harden on defense because his impact on offense will more than make up for those deficiencies. in any case, very interested to see how he does in his workout w/ the lakers.
J C says
Great idea Patrick.
I believe the Lakers think in terms like this –
Like the Chris Paul + Dwight idea.
Didn’t pan out but they tried.
PurpleBlood-
I’m w you – that block by Kyrie was stellar.
Top 10
MJ
KAJ
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Russell
West
Duncan
Shaq/Hakeem?
Lebron…maybe.
I might even put Maravich on my top ten list for sheer talent. What a basketball player.
I’m a huge Wilt fan.
Huge Jerry West fan.
And Magic.
I’ll wait to see Lebron’s legacy after a few more years. Yes he’s amazing but the east is so weak.
So he gets to the finals by being in the east. IMO
grumpy says
Emmanuel Mudiay worked out for the Lakers. Here’s the video:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/150606_prospecttworkouts
J C says
I guess I forgot Kobe.
Oops!
Basketball Guru says
Karl Anthony-Towns in my opinion is hands down the best prospect in the 2015 NBA Draft because he changes the game on both sides of the floor which neither Jahlil Okafor nor D’angelo Russell do even though they both are top 3 prospects along with the aforementioned Towns. As much as I like Okafor’s game on the offensive end of the floor, (and I really like his offensive game. A lot!) his defense leaves too much to be desired. Especially in regards to his pick and roll defense and in today’s NBA the pick and roll is used at an all-time high in offenses around the league. Not to mention the fact that he plays the center position, the position that is suppose to anchor the entire team’s defense. Talk about irony! Add that plus the fact that his rebounding is average for someone who plays the center position and you can clearly see he needs a lot of improvement on defense. Now compare his defense to Towns or even Willie Cauley-Stein of Kentucky who are both centers in this year’s NBA draft and Okafor’s defense is almost matador like. Now with all those negatives add his poor free-throw shooting in the mix and his offensive skill-set that I love so much gets diminshed everytime he gets fouled. With Okafor shooting a poor 51.0% from the free-throw line last year at Duke and Towns shooting a good 81.3% last year at Kentucky I believe that it’s clear which player has the most holes to fill in their game. Not saying that Towns comes up all roses because he dosen’t but if I were to choose between the two bigs I would drive a motorcycle up to the podium to select Towns!
Oh and hire a guru coach to teach Towns all of Okafor’s footwork and offensive skill-set lol
Wait! Scratch all of that!
Just give me Karlil Anthony Okafor in the draft because he would be a prospect for the ages! lol
Warren Wee Lim says
People forget that weeks ago we were peeing in our pants just to have a pick this year, now beggars are choosing meals from the finest restaurant in town.
I was picking between Mudiay (I hate) and Winslow (I love) and the prospects in between like Willie Cauley-Stein and taking a wild swing at Kristaps Porzingis becoming anything more than a jump shooting Euro. Now we select from Gordon Ramsey’s menu of Beef Wellington or Fillet Mignon.
Jahlil Okafor vs Karl Anthony Towns, destiny interlinks both of them for being in the same draft class albeit their games could not be any more different. This debate will last and change sides for every injury, setback and problems that arise. There can never be a correct answer, there is simply no way to tell right now.
From the standpoint of success, the Lakers couldn’t get any luckier with what happened in the lottery. At #2, we stand to pick what’s left and “couldn’t go wrong” with whoever is destined to become our starting center. With Minnesota, a million possibilities abound. I think its safe to say the pressure is on them to get this right, while the Lakers sit back and have the most to gain out of this.
Enter the real world, however, where agents actually control most of the things happening outside the court, the game can change a lot. What if the Lakers and Greg Monroe’s agent already have a deal in place? What if, the Lakers and Marc Gasol’s reps already have discussions? What if, the Lakers and Aldridge already planned a future together?.. All these account for uncertainties which we fans behind the computer can only surmise. What if Kevin Love already wrote his narrative of “coming home” since last July?
Those who claim to be experts and have certainties are simply ignorant. There is simply no way to know. There is no way to tell. You take one guess and hope its the best answer, but the number of permutations that lead to the absolute right answer is simply infinite. That said, between the two, I prefer the big man whose offense is NBA ready and is still 19 years old, can be taught and be helped on defense over the versatile, 2-way player who talks over to his right shoulder on his imaginary friend Karlito.
Go figure.
tankyou says
@basketballguru, Completely agree with your assessment on Okafor, I truly hope we get Towns.
Generally speaking modern NBA teams really need a decent defensive center. Warriors and Cavs are good examples of teams that have defensive anchors that don’t need to do much offensively for the teams to still be quite dominant. Unless you have a Shaq like talent on offense, its just not worth it. I’m not sold that Okafor doesn’t struggle a bit versus some of these huge Centers that have defensive chops. The more two-way players we can ge so much the better, I don’t think you will see a team basically giving a center 5-10 seconds of the shot clock to work post moves anymore. Too many great slashers, 3 point shooters and guys that can score far easier getting gimme dunks from wings who can draw attention and pass.
I don’t think we keep Lin, but I would enjoy a Clarkson/Lin backcourt if Kobe wasn’t in the picutre. I think that would put immense pressure on the other teams defenses with how well those two guys can penetrate. Get some athletic bigs that can finish Like Ed Davis, rather than Boozer/Hill (jump shooters now adays) and there would have been a lot more damage being done.
Anyway I’m calling it early, Lakers are a 30-ish win team this year that’s it, regardless of the young talent or Kobe playing. Only thing that can move the needle beyond that is an exceptional young established talent like Jimmy Butler who can score and also defend at a high level against some fo the best players in the league.
Warren Wee Lim says
The Lakers have an interesting offseason ahead. As we make our bid to make the playoffs once more, we are in a good position to make the right moves to inch closer to that goal. That’s not to say we should rely on purely our youngsters or if we are able to sign a big-named free agent, I’ve set forth a plan in my head to maximize cap, contend somewhat and build the right future.
Salary Cap: 67M
Draft Day:
– Draft Jahlil Okafor #2 overall.
– Draft Guillermo Hernangomez #27 overall
– Draft George Lucas De Paula #34 overall
– Decline Jordan Hill’s team option.
– Decline Robert Sacre’s team option.
– Deduct 4 roster spots, Lakers have 23M.
Before you wonder where the 2 rookies go, they will be stashed in Europe. But they will continue to have cap holds thus the Cap remains at 23M.
Depth Chart: (heading into Free Agency)
1: Jordan Clarkson –
2: Kobe Bryant – Jabari Brown –
3: Nick Young –
4: Julius Randle – Ryan Kelly –
5: Jahlil Okafor – Tarik Black –
Free Agency: 23M to spend
(8M) – Danny Green – 34/4 (pure shooter, great beside 2 bigs… can start at SF)
(4M) – Al Farouq Aminu – 9/2 (3+D and useful to guard PNRs)
(4M) – Ed Davis 18/4 (Defense and rim protection)
Depth Chart: (by August)
1: Jordan Clarkson –
2: Kobe Bryant – Nick Young – Jabari Brown –
3: Danny Green – Al Farouq Aminu –
4: Ed Davis – Julius Randle – Ryan Kelly –
5: Jahlil Okafor – Tarik Black –
Leftover of 7M? You can sign someone really good with that. Your checklist then would be:
a. veteran PG – Lin, Nelson, Ridnour.
b. shooters – Ellington,
c. athleticism – Wes Johsnon,
Suggestions? Objections?
Craig W. says
While we are all using the past to evaluate who we ought to draft, read this…
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/07/warriors-drafted-draymond-green-other-players-meant-to-smash-nbas-conventional-mold/
Since we will most likely draft Towns/Oakfor with the 2nd pick, this article talks more about who we draft 27 & 34. Anyway, I enjoyed reading it.
Chris J says
Re: 10 Best Lists, there was a great line by Jack McCallum in the latest Sports Illustrated’s article on the 1985 Finals.
“… (Those Finals) also provides unequivocal proof of the singular greatness of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the MVP of that series at age 38, who has somehow become both immortal and underrated.”
Best ever, in my view. Sorry, Jordanaires.
Craig W. says
For the highest level of greatness over the longest time, Kareem is unquestionably the very top of the mountain.
His problem – neither he, nor the press liked each other. That, and the fact the ESPN wasn’t around in the 60’s when he played at UCLA. Add to all this the fact that he converted to Islam at a time when the press wanted reasons to dislike people of color and you have a combustible situation (see Ali for a comparable reaction). The fact that he was somewhat introverted and very, very smart only inflamed the situation.
Rubenowski says
Warren,
I really like that team. Add two free agents to that team the following year and we can contend.
Basketball Guru says
@tankyou It’s crazy because I was just talking to some other so-called basketball fans about the exact same thing you said in your statement when you agreed with my assessment of Okafor. I said unless you have a Shaq, a Wilt or a Hakeem type player at center in your offense, where he’s for sure going to dominate his opponent and score almost every play it’s just not worth it to have a center who can’t play defense or make Free-throws. By the way, I agree when you said that “you’re not sold that Okafor doesn’t struggle versus some of the huge centers that play solid defense in the NBA” because when you look back at the film of Okafor you see him playing the post against guys who are 6’8 to 6’11 with no where near the girth or height of NBA players. In the NBA he’ll play against physical 6’11 or 7 foot players every game at center.
Now check out this gallery of NBA busts from SI below!
http://www.si.com/nba/photos/2014/05/09/nba-draft-busts
Now after you see the gallery think about this!
Greg Oden, Hasheem Thabeet, Fran Vasquez, Rafael Araujo, Darko Milicic, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi, Robert Traylor, Joe Smith, Shawn Bradley, Danny Ferry, Chris Washburn, Jon Koncak, Joe Kleine, Sam Bowie, Kent Benson and LaRue Martin were 18 of the 26 draft busts of all-time in NBA history and they were all either Centers or Power Forwards and most of which were drafted #1 or #2 in their respective drafts and other then Greg Oden none of the other players careers were cut short by injury. They just played awful in the NBA.
Now compare that to all of the holes that Okafor has in his game in regards to his weak defense, average rebounding for a center and poor free-throw shooting at a 51.0% and the fact that he played offense against shorter and weaker competition than that of NBA calibur players and I’d take point guard D’angelo Russell at #2 hands down if Karl Anthony Towns is off of the board at #2 because history suggests that Okafor will likely be a bust. Besides there has never been a point guard bust in NBA draft history except for Jay Williams out of Duke in the 2002 NBA Draft and he was only a bust because his horrific motorcycle accident ended his career.
KenOak says
Chris J and Craig W-
You both are spot on in your assessment of why Kareem doesn’t get the recognition that he deserves. He is hands down the greatest to ever lace em up, but because of all the reasons you both laid out
-No ESPN 24 hour news cycle
-No flashy high-flying dunks
-He didn’t have a great relationship with the press
-He converted to Islam
-He dominated every single level of basketball that he played
As far as I know, and I may be wrong, Jordan never forced the NCAA or NBA for that matter to change a rule because he was so gifted. Well, that’s just what the NCAA did because of Lew Alcindor. No dunking allowed because he was too tall and dominant.
Kareem was an amazing player and it is hard to understand how the current *supposed* experts never give him his due justice.
**edit- I just wanted to add that if I were to compare him to a modern day player it would be Tim Duncan. Except he’s better than Tim Duncan in every single way. So, all the love that the experts give Timmy should be showered upon Kareem as well. :/
mud says
sorry Chris and Craig, but i don’t agree.
Wilt was greater than Kareem, at least in my opinion. Wilt was Kareem’s equal, sometimes better and sometimes worse, when Wilt was at the end of his career after several devastating knee injuries when Kareem was fresh and strong.
both are great, if you prefer one over the other, that’s fine. there have been several “greatest of all time”s.
Mikey K. says
It’s pretty wild to see the ‘experts’ criticizing Okafor’s athleticism, while giving Jordan-bow-downs to the guy who didn’t win it all.
Okafor’s slow. Okafor’s not going to be able to guard NBA players. Towns shoots 3’s really well and is a superior athlete to Anthony Freaking Davis… I swear I read that and almost had an aneurysm.
You know something, one year ago, Towns measure a half inch taller than Okafor. Okafor measured 1.75 more wingspan and 1.5 inches more standing reach. And Okafor knows what to do with that size and length in the post, where those measurements matter. With all due respect to Towns shooting 3’s, that’s not where either of these guys are going to be advancing their teams in the playoffs. And it’s not as if Okafor isn’t well above the curve with his mid-range shooting for a center.
But the thing that I see missing is all of the current-trend ideology banter about stretching the floor and spreading the floor and the lack of true centers. Guess what ? In about 2-4 years, that means that only about 3 teams in the league will actually have a post threat, and if you don’t have Cousins, Okafor or possibly some zombie version of Brooks Lopez or Old Man Marc Gasol, your team will be on the wrong side of the next great revolution.
That’s how it works folks. Someone reinvents the team structure, everyone follows, and something else becomes a rarity. Phoenix reinvented the stretch 4. Westbrook and Rose popularized the effective scoring combo guard, and we’re about 2-4 years from some team with a 20ppg + post scoring center figuring out that they can camp their defenders out at the 3 point line and have a guy like Cousins or Okafor out-score the other teams, efficiency wise by shooting post ups in lieu of open mid-range shots.
Not saying Towns won’t be the better player. Just saying whoever predicts it now, and HAPPENS to be right, happened to be so. They didn’t know it. And as far as effective defending centers, tell me that the best two defensive centers this year, Marc Gasol and Andrew Bogut. are faster and more athletic than Okafor before you tell me that JO can’t defend as a center in this league. Smarts goes a long way, and JO has them. And his athleticism is more than sufficient for a guy who’s going to have one of the top 3 standing reaches in the league.
PurpleBlood says
Craig W. (9:58am),
what a fine post – tellin´ it like it is
___
& Warren,
thank you man – great post as well
LKK says
Tonight’s game is providing an interesting counterpoint to the prevalence of the present day love of the three point shot. Cleveland is playing great straight up defense with very little switching or double teaming. As a result, they are negating the three point shot. The Dubs have very little inside game and that is allowing the Cavs to defend the 3 pt. line very tightly. As much as the three point shot spreads the floor and opens things inside, the reverse is true. A strong inside game helps set up open 3’s. Balance is always the key.
LKK says
On a side note, Mosgov is really outplaying Bogut. Yes, big men still matter.
Vasheed says
@Warren
To start the season I could see Davis ahead of Randle in the depth chart. However, I would consider Randle a disappointment if he could not get into the starting line-up past Davis by the all-star break.
Just nit picking, but I would slide Kobe over to SF and start Green at SG. Kobe has played significant minutes at SF without a drop in production. Frankly Kobe would likely have an easier time guarding the SF position while Green is a pretty good defender at SG.
Craig W. says
mud,
With respect, Wilt was the most dominating basketball player who ever lived. He could do anything he wanted with the ball – except he wasn’t a point-guard.
The reason I don’t get into GOAT is because of Wilt and Kareem. Kareem wasn’t as purely physically dominant as Wilt, but his skill and ability to take care of himself was unparalleled in his time. They were each different types of centers, but both were devastatingly effective. It was just that Kareem was so good for so long.
Back to the topic: Either of these two rookie centers is a pretty good bet. I will take the one Minny doesn’t want and be very happy. We will have two very different types of offense, based on who we get, but – IMO – either will be successful. The biggest factor is how each is supported by his respective front office and coach.
LKK says
Great game by Cleveland. Delly played his azz off on both sides of the ball. If I were Kerr, I’d think about giving David Lee some run. The Dubs settled for 3’s all night. Nothing going towards the basket. Lee is a gifted interior scorer. I’d also involve Harrison Barnes more in a pick and roll with Curry. I think Barnes finishes better in the half court game than Draymond does. When Draymond plays the high post in the P&R with Steph, he has a tendency to overpass. Just one man’s opinion.
mud says
thanks for the response Craig. i can understand your points.
except, you knew that Wilt led the NBA in assists one year, right?
grumpy says
Mikey K., I completely agree with you. The league is full of trends. Big men will have their time again.
Basketball Guru, your criticism of Okafor isn’t fair. Of course he’s going up against weaker talent in the NCAA than what he will face in the NBA. Guess what? The exact same statement is true of Towns and Russell.
From what I’ve seen, Okafor’s greatest talent isn’t dominating by physicality (a la Shaq), though he is very strong, but rather by his ability to read the defense and effectively make the right play. I’m not concerned about his offensive game translating to the NBA.
I do agree that his free throw percentage is a concern and I will add that his pick and roll defense needs a lot of work. His defensive issues from what I have seen are fixable. It’s hard to say about his free throw percentage though.
While I personally think the Lakers should take whichever big man falls to them, I’m not against them taking a guard like Russell if they are blown away by a workout and see star potential. The Lakers need to examine every possible option as they have to nail this pick.
Snoop Dogg says
If Towns goes to the Lakers my Nike stock will soar to the roof because I know hes’s a 6-11 durant ! Nike plus Lakers will both benefit once Towns gets Kobe’s torch to carry on!!
J C says
There is no joy in Mudville.
Mighty Curry has struck out.
KenOak says
The Lakers win tonight against the Golden State Warriors despite a terrible shooting night from Kobe Bryant… Oops! Wrong headline! That was a great game tonight, but holy hell did Curry and Lebron have a stinker of a shooting night. Lebron shot 31% and Curry shot 21%. Crazy. Damn good win by the Cavs though. The narrative will definitely change if the Cavs manage to win it all. Lebron will need to put together 3 more games > than this one.
Warren Wee Lim says
Vasheed, to simply reply to Ed Davis starting ahead of Randle has something to do with his FT% being that of Okafor’s level.
I do agree w/ assessment that Green starts at SG while Kobe plays post SF who can space. At the same time, when Kobe plays he is the PG really while Clarkson would need to shore up his 3-ball. Green would have a great time playing beside Kobe.
Renato Afonso says
Sam Bowie also had his share of injuries…
And again, people talk about Towns like he’s Wilt crossed with Duncan and about Okafor as Kwame 2.0. Neither one is even close to being a finished product and their size is almost the same. Okafor can improve on help defense (he can hold his own in the post) and free throws. Towns can work on his footwork. Any of them can be a bust or a top 5 player in 5 years time. We simply don’t know even though each one has their preferences.
So, unless you saw them both at practice, saw plenty of live games, talked to their former coaches or actually know how you can work to improve their current shortcomings, you really have no idea about who’s going to be great and who’s not. And it’s a 50-50 chance they might be a bust, so there’s no point in coming back to say “I told you so” because even if you said it, you really didn’t know…
Again, any big will be fine and I’ll wait on the Okafor entry to say more about it.
Warren Wee Lim says
We all know that while teams cannot talk to players until July 1st, we can always talk to the agents. In the real world, contracts and possibilities are being discussed as we speak. Of course its simply not legal to say so, but we don’t kiss and tell.
So hypothetically speaking, since the top 3 free agents are big men, is there a possibility that we draft DeAngelo Russell instead? I wouldn’t do this without the “assurance” from one of Gasol, Aldridge or Love of course, but technically speaking we haven’t talked to them, nothing is committed and nothing is final. But bear with me here.
So in this hypothetical (but realistic and possible) scenario, the Lakers supposedly have come to terms with:
a. Marc Gasol – since we have a franchise center to play with Kobe, we have Clarkson and Randle, do we draft Russell? Because at this point, drafting Okafor wouldn’t be wise. Not only will we devalue him, we would also not utilize him properly. The fit beside Gasol would be terrible even though Gasol is such a versatile player.
b. Kevin Love – for all intents and purposes, Love has expressed to the media how much he wants to stay in Cleveland. Does that count or is that simply posturing? Is the long-time dream to play in LA no longer considerable now that he has said those words? They are more or less committal but at the same time, ink to the paper is the only thing that counts. But lets just suppose he flames out of Cleveland, uses the “home” narrative and he could be the “savior” of the Lakers franchise. Drafting Okafor then would still count as a bad fit because the 2 will not be able to defend the PNR well. Add the fact that we still have another Rookie in Randle, what now? Do we draft DeAngelo Russell now?
c. LaMarcus Aldridge – among the FAs he is the one considerably guaranteed to leave Portland. His choices and best fit is in NY. His heart and home is in Texas, 2 of the 3 teams have space and can make space for him. But along those lines, leaving Portland for LA isn’t such a bad idea. The only problem is we have Randle. Do we trade Randle, draft Okafor? Do we draft Russell?
I will limit every other scenario to these 3 free agents since they are the top 3 prizes. For what its worth, the likelihood of 1 of the 3 to go to LA is rather good, I put it at 55%.
Heading into the draft as a fan, you simply say best player available. But in the real world, things like these are already known to Mitch and Jim and these information are not privy to us.
Do you consider trading down for multiple assets then? I’m pretty sure the Kings would be eager to jump to 2, so will the Nuggets and Magic. If you draft Russell for leverage, even Philly might be enticed to secure small asset + 3 for #2.
Again, just possibilities, real ones.
BigCitySid says
– So sorry for all the haters who will focus on LeBron’s negatives in this Finals. He’s doing things NO ONE has accomplished before. W/o the team’s 2nd & 3rd best players…simply amazing. Not going to quote stats, you’ll be hearing and seeing them enough. Haters, try to enjoy what could be a historical run.
– As I’ve stated earlier, I’m a realist. If the Lakers, behind Randel, Clarkson, and their #2 pick can avoid their third straight 50 loss season and not waste anytime and money w/ over the hill free agents…I’ll be satisfied w/ their 2015-2016 season.
Craig W. says
mud,
Since the offense went through Wilt and Wilt could do pretty much anything he wanted, that year he wanted to lead the league in assists.
The only real issue with Towns is that he is rather late in the ‘playing cycle’ the NBA is going through and thought of as being like Kevin Durant – 7 years later. I think you have to look at players through their own glasses. Those wanting another Durant are likely to be disappointed. With Towns we may need another player to intimidate in the lane – and we don’t yet have him. As I said before, it is a matter of offensive style, based on who we pick.
CHearn says
In a finals series, one can only tell a team that has never played to prepare for a battle, and that’s whether or not players have fallen to injuries. Sometimes players have to learn the lesson by going through it, hopeful this game will not prove pivotal to the Warriors opportunity to win. The Warriors and Curry appeared to play as though the rings were a given because Irving was out for the series. His shot is not fluid, and it veers left off the rim on every shot. Great shooters adjust to that during the game, but somehow he and the coaching staff were unable to tweak his shot to get it to fall. Articles are describing how he learned to shoot on his grandfather’s moving basket with the wind forcing him to adjust every shot are all reasons to wonder why he could never find his rhythm. He got the shots off; they just didn’t drop.
Let’s not pretend that had Kobe shot 31% from the field like Lebron did he would not be fricasseed on-line this morning. Let Kobe take 34 shots to score 39 points in a game like LeBron did in game two against the Warriors, and Kobe’s name in basketball blogs this morning would be synonymous with a ball hog. Even if Kobe had ten assists while passing to players with the names Kwame, Smush, and Cook.
That missed breakaway dunk by Speights was the difference in the game. Cleveland escaped with a win even though Smith revived the reason he was distinguished as a less than stellar player. Or, he tried to throw the game.
If the Warriors weren’t equipped to play at home in front of their fan base with favorable calls from the referee, (that rake across LeBron’s arm should have warranted him two free throws) then they certainly aren’t ready to play at the house the King built where he’ll be allowed to lower his head and drive into the chest of players with impunity.
George says
Warren Wee Lim:
Kobe: prefacing any discussion on potential FAs with saying that they fit with Kobe is crazy talk. Fitting in with Kobe would be the absolute last concern on my list.
Gasol: He is 30 and wants to win now. Plus the Lakers jerked his brother around big time. He’s not a good fit and he’s not inclined to come.
Aldridge: He’s approaching 30 as well. Unless they are the missing piece, it makes no sense for the Lakers to pay full price over four years for a FA.
Love: He’s 27 and a four year deal gets you through his age 31 season — so he’s less of a risk in that regard. If Mitch feels that Randle can play the Three then Love’s ability to stretch the floor is a plus.
The Lakers play in the ultra-competitive West. They are not going to climb over 7 teams to make the playoffs next season. Best to take it slow and assemble a team that has its core along the same wide (very wide) time horizon. Our future is bright but we are in a very vulnerable place. Our best players are a soon to be 23 year old (Clarkson) and a 21 year old (Randle) who missed his entire rookie year to a severe lower leg injury.
I believe getting back to the top will be a lengthy process.
Vasheed says
I’m looking forward to Russell’s workout today. I favor Russell over Okafor slightly mostly because of other factors then talent. Mostly fit and what is likely to be available later on.
As Warren points out most of the prized free agents this year are big men. To piggyback on this there is actually fairly slim pickings at the PG position in free agency this year.
I’m also hoping to get Upshaw as well, which would in effect cover every starting position in the Lakers line up. It would leave the Lakers with roughly 20 million to go shopping filling out their roster without any pressure to overspend.
Warren Wee Lim says
Actually Vasheed, there are choices at PG both in the draft and in Free Agency. We just haven’t focused much on them because we’re somehow fixated on the 2 bigs after winning #2 on the lottery.
I haven’t watched much about DAR, but the top 3 of this draft has a very interesting comparison. The last time the top 3 talents were almost like this year’s was in ’97 – Iverson, Camby, Rahim.
DAR isn’t Iverson, KAT should fare better than Camby and Okafor is much much bigger than Rahim. But isn’t it a bit ironic, symbolic or outright creepy?
Justin says
I think people look at NCAA and assume the player is going to just be a progression of that player. This is why there are so many bust and sleepers in the NBA. Coaches sometimes ask players to play a certain way (Randle playing in the post when he is clearly most comfortable driving the ball if you see him do what he prefers to do). Also the talent around the player matters (Curry played with no talent and teams would often double him before he even crossed half court. As a result no one was quiet sure how much of a PG he was and if he could do anything but shoot). I have been reading a ton from experts and fans all saying Okafor and Russell can defend and aren’t great athletes. Then I watch the finals and see Draymond and remember experts and fans said he couldn’t defend (go look back at his scouting report. He was considered too small, too unathletic, and missing defensive instincts. Everyone loved his feel for the game and all around offensive, but he was not considered a good enough outside shooter to build around. Fast forward to the NBA today and he is a max level player who was second in defensive player of the year who is consider a wonder for his versatility. There are zero questions about his athletism, defensive instincts or size.
Just last year all we heard was that Wiggins was the best prospect until the tourney. Suddenly he fell out of favor as he was picked apart. Heck even during the draft he wasn’t number one until Embiid got hurt. Then it was a question of Wiggins vs Parker. Took Wiggins a half of year and then everyone was on his bandwagon. Jahlil was number one all season and lost it in the last two tourney games. Funny how Kaminsky scored 20 points (7-11 shooting) on Towns/WCS and everyone ignores that. Also grabbed 11 rebounds. Against Okafor 21 points (7-16 shooting) and 12 rebounds. But all the talk was how Okafor had trouble guarding Kaminsky. Kaminsky was a four year NBA late lottery pick. I am not judging either guy based on playing Wisconsin. I remember Ewing was a dominate defender in college and got to the pros and wasn’t that great of a defender but suddenly became a dominate scorer. I think people get too caught up with what college players are, but the real important stuff is the interviews, players mentality, and other stuff we don’t see. Anyways don’t always believe the media or experts (wrong in every draft ever on about 50% of the players). The Lakers have a good track record on high picks. Picks since 1994 in the first round: Eddie Jones (10), Andrew Bynum (10), Fisher (24), Deavon George (23), Sam Jacobson (26th pick and a bust), Mark Madsen (29), Brian Cook (24), Sasha Vujacic (27), Jordan Farmar (26), Jarvis Critteton (19 and a bust), Julius Randle (7). Only two bust (one which was traded for Pau). Most of the picks were in the mid to late 20s and became rotation players. Not many teams pick that well. That gives me confidence. I think they have people that are great at their job (not just Mitch) and will bring us a great player at 2 and a rotation player at 27.
anyonemouse says
Not excited about any of the FAs this year. I’d rather save that space for next year (aka summer of Durant). Instead, I’d rather use our existing players to pull in a disgruntled/under-performing veteran who will be in contract years – think Roy Hibbert, Lance Stephenson. These guys will be motivated to play well, at least for a year so they can cash in on their next deal. Lance’s deal has a team option for 2016. (edited for trade speculation) Pure speculation, but I’d rather we save our money than spend on underwhelming players purely out of pressure to do *something*.
Mikey K. says
CHearn: Maybe it’s your choice of name, but you are channeling the truth, bro ! Amazing how those fouls just didn’t get called, presumably because LeBron’s so big he doesn’t need the help… or some other ridiculousness.
And your comment about JR throwing the game is spot on. Although, with his stupidity, it’s hard to believe he’d have fouled like that if he actually did want to throw the game. The amazing part of it was watching LBJ’s restraint. You could see the exhaustion, the agony after both teams are 1-6 from the floor, and JR just raked the top free throw shooter in the league, in the backcourt, as it if were a breakaway, when half the players were already getting back on D…but he didn’t express the anger. He kept it in, because he knows he needs JR, because they have only 7 players… or 8 if you include the 5-7 minutes you might be able to get from Mike Miller’s corpse.
Just unbelievable. Never seen a worse supporting cast in the finals, ever. Not only no other HOFers, not only no other all-stars, but not even ONE NBA starter on his team. Granted, Mozgov is starterl-level quality (even if he couldn’t win out the spot), but the fact is, not ONE guy on the floor with LBJ was able to secure a starting spot through the first 5 months of the season.
Just saying… Jordan couldn’t have dragged those dudes to a W. Not even with Kyrie. Nor could have Kobe. Nor TD. Nor Shaq. Nor anyone. You have to be able to initiate the offense AND score 40 against triples, AND dominate on defense and cover everything your teammates missed. But of course, if they lose, which is likely, then all the idiots will say he’s only 2-6 in the finals, because everyone knows K-Love’s shoulder being torn is LBJ’s fault. With Love, Cleveland is up 2-0, hard, and looking at an easy 5 game championship. Even without Kyrie.
the other Stephen says
@Justin,
Nice post.
tankyou says
@Mike K, Yeah agree with you, Lebron was getting mauled multiple times, couldn’t believe the no calls last night. Despite not shooting well, Lebron is dominating the game, controlling the pace, and with the good rebounders they have, they end up getting some second shot clocks to work with.
I do think Mosgov is a very good player, he is agile, big, rim protects, makes good cuts, has good hands, and shoots pretty well outside/free throw line. I really think he was a diamond in the ruff for the Cavs. Tristan Thompson is also a starter quality player for a bunch of teams, purely for his rebounding, hustle and solid defense. Thompson got stuck on Curry multiple times but still moved his feet quick enough to play fairly decent defense–not many PF/C’s can beging to do that. T. Thompson is offensively limited, but he doesn’t seem to care about shooting, I like guys who don’t try to take up a bunch of the teams shots–when they really aren’t that good. Dwight Howard is a prime example of a guy who is decent, but nothing special offensively at this point in his career, if he could pass it would be alright, but since he is a lousy passer, his post up game just hurts the Rockets offense more often than it helps it.
IF the Cavs somehow win against a far superior team, this would be an epic feat. But I have to say, the cavs are playing really great defense. Shumpert/Delladova both are playing scrappy in your face defense. But man the Cavs have no depth at all, barely had any when they still had Love/Irving. Maybe the refs will learn to not pull a Shaq and let guys beat the hell out of Lebron just b/c he is “big and strong” which is a bunch of BS. Someone touches scrawny Curry and he gets free throws, 3 guys hit Lebron going to the hole and nothing. It really reminded me of Shaq, and how many times he used to get hammered, but no calls, just b/c he barely moved b/c he was just so big and strong.
Aaron says
What LeBron is doing for his team offensively is exactly what he was doing for his junior high school team. I’ve never seen anything like it. He literally is the entire offense. He need to create a shot for himself or a teammate every time down the floor or they can’t get a shot off. Appreciate him while you can. He is already passed his prime. Not that many more seasons we can watch him still be great.
BigCitySid says
-George, pertaining to your response to Warren Wee Lim, agree w/ you completely. My biggest fear however is that the dysfunctional Buss kids making the decisions may actual agree with WWL.
-CHearn, surprised you went there, comparing LeBron’s less than stellar shooting night to those experienced by Kobe. You’re right, Kobe would have rec’d more flack, mainly because of his historical superior personnel options. Kobe is the outright King of the “turnaround fade away long 2 point shot takers while being double team” players in NBA history…even when he played along side of talented offensive low post players like Shaq, Gasol, and Bynum.
Simonoid says
Justin, very well said.
Mid-Wilshire says
There is a fascinating article by Alex Kennedy of Basketball Insider (June 8, 2015): “NBA AM: Okafor Ready to Play With the Pros”: http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-okafor-ready-to-play-with-the-pros/
Kennedy interviews two people, Quinn Cook, Okafor’s team mate from Duke and Jon Scheyer, an Assistant Coach with the Duke basketball team.
Cook states that Okafor’s defense actually picked up toward the end of the season, especially in the NCAA tournament. Meanwhile, Scheyer states — intriguingly — that the Duke coaches urged Okafor not to be too aggressive in protecting the rim. They simply didn’t want him in foul trouble because they needed him on the court where he was usually the focal point of the offense.
This is fascinating stuff. It’s a must read.
Basketball Guru says
@Grumpy, My criticism of Okafor may not be fair but it’s the truth and like you said my same criticisim of Okafor playing against weaker and smaller players also goes for Towns and in some ways for Russell as well.
That being stated, all I’m pointing out is the fact that out of the Top 3 prospects of Karl Anthony-Towns, D’angelo Russell and Jahlil Okafor their are more question marks on Okafor then their are on Towns and Russell combined. Towns’ lack of advanced post moves, defensive discipline, consistency and standstill athleticisim are questioned. Russell’s athleticism, off hand, and lack of consistency on defense are questioned. Okafor’s defense, defensive rebounding, consistency, athleticisim, jump shot, free-throw shooting, lack of toughness, lack of effort and awareness are questioned. Even though all 3 players were good in college, all I’m saying is that Okafor is the 1 out of all 3 players who has the most holes and question marks in his game and in my opinion is the most likely out of those 3 to be a bust in the NBA and shouldn’t even be considered in the conversation at #2 with Towns or Russell at all.
Check out these 3 articles if you don’t believe what I’m saying about Okafor!
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/eight-questions-about-jahlil-okafor-in-the-nba/
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2362673-how-concerning-are-jahlil-okafors-defensive-struggles
http://upsidemotor.com/2015/02/25/nba-draft-2015-jahlil-okafor-duke-blue-devils-flawed-star-bust-knicks-timberwolves-76ers/
Craig W. says
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king. The question is – other than Aaron – exactly who is it that has the one eye?
There is a reason there have been so many ‘busts’ in NBA first round drafts. Beware of he who is absolutely sure, because that is the person who is least likely to turn over the unexpected rock.
grumpy says
Well said, Justin!
Mid-Wilshire, that is a interesting read as well. I know people have been speculating for awhile now that Okafor might have intentionally been holding back on defense to stay out of foul trouble. While I’m not going to say Okafor is going to be great on defense, it at least partially excuses his “lazy defense” to some degree.
Basketball Guru, I don’t disagree that all three prospects have their flaws. Personally, I just don’t see Okafor being a bust. Of course like all young players, he still needs to prove he can do it at the next level. That said, the kid has a very uncommon skill and effective skill set (shooting 66.4% from the field) that I believe will allow him to succeed in the NBA. The thing I like about Okafor is that he is so unique. You would be hard-pressed to name several NBA bigs who have the Okafor-level footwork.
Also, here are a few interesting links for you guys:
1. Mudiay’s Lakers workout / interview:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/video/1506061on1Mudiay
2. Russell’s Lakers workout / interview:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/video/1506081on1Russell
Is it just me or did the Lakers film crew make Mudiay’s game look very unappealing, while making Russell’s game shine? Perhaps they are trying to manipulate Philly? Who knows!
Oldtimer says
Justin, I think you have been around for sometime that you have recognized the cycle of players from ameteur to pro. There are some amateurs who are least expected, yet they made tremendous improvement in the pro. It really depends on the individual and fringe of luck that he will not get injured seriously during his tenure. There are only few exceptions like Kareem, Magic, Bird and MJ who were athletically gifted and could project their destiny from the get go. Having said that, you can’t teach “height” that is distinct advantage in basketball, therefore Okafor or Towns are the best players money can buy. Well, on point guards there are some who can be great for one season but disappear in the next, great PG but don’t have a team to bank on like CP3. When it comes to Championship, there are several factors that interplay from coaching, adjustments, bench, clutch and consistency. We were all amazed by the Splash Brothers, yet they turned out to be vulnerable the other night precisely because their Center is kinda clumsy. Even with the help of zebras, they failed to win the first two games on their homecourt. Defense won the game for Cavs.
Going back to the Lakers, we have to emphasize on the roster composition. Young is a weak link and lacks consistency on defense and scoring. Sacre is a tall dude but his ability being a big man to dominate the paint is limited and spotty. His main thrust on defense is through fouling quick players whom he could not catch up. Therefore, you mix them with Towns (example), Randle and Clarkson would you expect a good chemistry out from the team of veterans and newbies. Maybe they get into the playoffs if Sacre and Young would change their old ways. I think Scott knows this and his set strategies would be useless if the players are willing to work and have the passion to improve.
bleedpurplegold says
Even though aaron might come across as a little harsh sometimes, no one of the regulars, readers or writers, could possibly deny his basketball knowledge….
My Top10 in no order:
Kareem, wilt, logo, kobe, magic, shaq, mj, big O, timmy
Anonymous says
My preferred starting lineup for next season:
PG – Jordan Clarkson
SG – Kobe Bryant
SF – Jimmy Butler
PF – Julius Randle
C – Jahlil Okafor
tankyou says
@anonymous, That starting line-up would have major problems with giving people enough shots. Clarkson seems more like a shooting guard, that wants to shoot/score first pass second. Kobe goes back and forth, but ultimatley if he’s on the floor he is going to shoot alot–even if he waits until the 4th quarter to start shooting a ton. Butler IF somehow we got him would instantly be our best player on the team by a long shot, cutting back on his ball handling and scoring would be dumb. Okafor and Randle would get few touches. So IF we end up having those guys, at least a couple of them have to come off the bench so they get touches. For development sake Randle/Okafor and Clarkson are all going to need to get to have the ball a bit, not merely be cutters or trying to score off of offensive rebounds.
IF we manage to get a really great RFA/FA this year, ultimately its going to limit development a bit of someone, there are just not enough shots to go around–especially in Byrons Scotts slow paced offense. Honestly if the Lakers get someone as good as Jimmy Butler, they need to move quickly to get the team good and strongly consider trading a young talent and taking on another good player. Randle/Clarkson/Okafor are all offensively focused guys from what I can tell, and Kobe isn’t going to turn into John Stockton except in spurts. Hope these young guys don’t have big egos and they don’t mind coming off the bench for the sake of development and the team. But a lot of these guys want to start, so it often creates some problems.