The Lakers have not had many, if any, nights like Tuesday’s at the Staples Center. Having only 3 wins prior contributes to that for sure, but it was even more than the fact the team banked another win in an account which has been too barren this year. It was, instead, in the process of getting the win how much of the action the team controlled and how the game captured the essence of what most would have hoped for this season.
A look at the box score tells a lot of the story:
- The team won every quarter, save the final period, but were only outscored by 2 in that 4th quarter.
- Kobe had his 5th consecutive good shooting night, hitting 7 of his 15 shots and all 5 of his FT’s for 22 points. He added 6 assists to only 2 turnovers and chipped in 3 rebounds too.
- Julius Randle recovered from his two-game funk to post a double-double of 14 and 14, including 6 offensive rebounds. He also hit half his 12 shots and both his FT’s.
- D’Angelo Russell scored 19 points on only 13 shot attempts and posted a career high 7 assists. He stuffed the stat-sheet more, too, by grabbing 4 rebounds and snagging 3 steals. He also only had a single turnover.
- Every starter was at least +20 on the night. Russell was a +4 — which is important since he spent a lot of time managing the 2nd unit while also playing down the stretch.
Those are just the numbers, though. When you watch the highlights, you can see how much fun this game was and why the crowd was more electric than it has been all season:
So many highlights!! #GoLakershttps://t.co/RlxBlD2hjZ
— Los Angeles Lakers (@Lakers) December 16, 2015
It’s premature to say whether this type of game can lead to future improved play. On any given night an entire team can play well, but this is more often the case on the better teams in the league. The Lakers have not been that this year, not with the ups and downs that come with young players or the struggles Kobe has gone through. However, Tuesday night did speak to a certain amount of potential. And if Kobe can continue to embrace the role he is while approximating the level of production he’s put forth, it would be a pretty big step in helping to stabilize things.
That’s a big if, though. As is getting consistent production from the young guys. And even if those things happen, the wins may not flow at any faster a rate than what they have to this point. But those are discussions for down the road. For now, I’m going to savor a nice win which offered more fun than I’ve had this season. For today, that is more than enough.
TempleOfJamesWorthy says
Whoa, whoa, WHOA!
If the Lakers keep this up, the ‘stealth tank’ strategy fails and Ben Simmons is NOT a Laker next year.
WTF are Byron and Kobe doing?
[end sarcasm]
However, the game does highlight a problem for the Lakers this year. It’s not entirely clear if they should all-out tank to ensure one more injection of young talent via the draft, or if they should try to maximize the young core’s development so they can say to free agents next summer, “Look at what we’ve built. Adding you would make it that much better.”
Personally, I think the only true impact free agent is Kevin Durant, and I don’t think he’s coming to LA. So I must reluctantly favor the “Suck for Simmons” strategy.
Craig W. says
Rumor Mill: Dwight Howard is unhappy playing 2nd fiddle in Houston, even though his back problems continue to limit his play.
To all those posters who lambasted the front office for not being able to sign Dwight, perhaps, just perhaps, we dodged a bullet there. In any case, he is Houston’s problem now – 31 and starting to show an injury penchant.
rr says
Craig,
The Lakers are 52-137 since he walked, while Houston won 110 games in two years and made a WCF. Plus, if Houston decides to move him, he will bring something back. On top of that, the FO supposedly tried hard to keep him but failed and has since tried to bring in guys like Aldridge and Anthony.
So, they have may have dodged a bullet, but they then stepped in front of a freight train. The counter is that Russell and Randle presumably wouldn’t be here if Howard had stayed, but there are so many variables in that scenario it hard to argue from it, as is the case with all counterfactuals.
rr says
On another note, I am enjoying watching Russell dish and dime.
KevTheBold says
I would love to snag Simmons, yet if D’Angelo takes the reins, and pulls us out of this tail spin dive, then, according to the reason for the draft, we would not quality to require the services of Simmons.
That said, to have those two together again, would be dangerous to the league, and an arsenal for us.
KevTheBold says
Regarding Howard, I sincerely doubt he would come back, nor would we want him.
It’s clear now to everyone, that he is not the franchise corner stone he imagined himself to be.
Far from it, he’s a spoiled child with delusions of grandeur, lacking the heart, and the heat resistance to stand in the Laker spot light.
I do thank him for D’Angelo however !
rr says
I think Howard’s next stop is Dallas.
Dr Mike says
Russell is far more enjoyable to watch than any player DH12 trade would have fetched.
KevTheBold says
@ Dr Mike, agree totally !
Anonymous says
I would love to snag Simmons, yet if D’Angelo takes the reins, and pulls us out of this tail spin dive, then, according to the reason for the draft, we would not quality to require the services of Simmons.
__
Kev – you are aware that to win on a sustained level requires a lot of talent. Magic, Kareem, Worthy and Scott did not win every year.
To say that adding another talent (hopefully Simmons) isn’t necessary because our star rookie led us to our 4th win of the year is a bit too optimistic, even for you.
Mark Sigal says
Call me the contrarian, but given the choice between the Lakers sucking terribly and not knowing if they have a core, just on the hope they can get Simmons, and getting into a groove and building confidence that they have a core, but losing out on Simmons, I’ll take the latter.
Three birds in hand, beats one theoretical one (for me). Plus, needing to be a bottom three is much harder than it looks…if the Lakers can resemble anything like they did last night.
Also, last time I checked, the continuous tanking strategy wasn’t working so well for the 76ers.
rr says
Mark Sigal,
I think the Lakers will finish with the second-worst record no matter how they handle the rotations the rest of the way. The caveat would be Brooklyn blowing things up by unloading Brook Lopez. If the Lakers have the 3rd-worst record, then the chances of picking #1 drop from 19.9% to 15.6%. Philadelphia will be at 25% presuming they finish with the worst record. The chances of the Lakers keeping the pick would drop from about 55% to about 48%.
Baylor Fan says
It is great to be able to talk about a win and a game that resembled basketball. This less is more version of Kobe is a refreshing change. The enormous improvement in the offense reduced the fast break opportunities for the Bucks and so improved the Lakers’ transition defense. Maybe more wins are in the offing.
KevTheBold says
@ Anonymous, who said anything about ‘sustained wins’?
I was obviously speaking of only enough wins for us to lose our pick.
Craig W. says
Mark, I agree with you. Caveat: The Lakers have finished the easiest part of their schedule, but they also have finished most of their away games. They may play better and still not win a lot of games, but the support players should play better during the remainder of the year.
rr, Regardless, I doubt Dwight would have made a lot of difference for us over the last two years. Perhaps we might have made the playoffs one year – not much more – but we would also own him for a year longer at a higher salary. A 31 year-old and injury prone 2nd banana who thinks he should be #1 is not exactly a way to build toward the future.
rr says
A 31 year-old and injury prone 2nd banana who thinks he should be #1 is not exactly a way to build toward the future.
—
This being why the Lakers FO never considered offering a max deal to Carmelo Anthony after Howard left.
Like I said at the time, it is certainly possible that things that things will play out in such a way that Lakers fans may look back and think that Howard’s departure has been a plus. Many already do. But:
a) We don’t know what would have happened with other stuff/players/coaches had Howard stayed here.
b) Howard’s troubles in Houston reflect negatively on Howard but are not, based on what we know, a positive reflection on the Lakers FO. Had the Lakers FO announced then that they were not going to try to re-sign him or were instead pursuing a full rebuild, different story. Didn’t happen.
c) I pointed out at the time that every team that has lost an All-Star or HoF center in his prime for the last 45-50 years or so went through a down period until they landed another star. The Lakers have proven to be the rule on that, rather than the exception.
I never much liked Howard, even when he was a great player. But that is a separate thing from what his departure means to the Lakers.
KO says
Don’t forget 6 of the Bucks were at LA Strip bar till 2am night before game and Monroe didn’t play.
Vasheed says
I have to agree with RR, the Lakers have avoided a number of mis-steps not because of their wisdom but often out of sheer dumb luck. Player refused sign, other team, demanded slightly too much in a trade, etc.
I think they have drafted very well, and I believe Hibbert was a good trade. But many of their high publicity acquisition attempts failed not for a lack of willingness by the F.O. but for other reasons. In hindsight they lucked out a few times.
I’m not completely down on the F.O. but I’ll call out the sheer luck of some of the non-moves.
KevTheBold says
@rr, I scratch my head as to why you keep going on about the lack of front office operational announcements, or mis-announcements to the fan base.
It’s their business, and their right to operate it as they see fit.
Most of us ignore what they say, and watch what they do.
Our only choices of action, unless we have the clout for a hostal takeover, is to endure, or jump on another teams bandwagon.
At least the Lakers always eventually pull through, so I choose to endure, which now, thanks to the front office landing D’Angelo, is much easier.
Anonymous says
To all those posters who lambasted the front office for not being able to sign Dwight, perhaps, just perhaps, we dodged a bullet there.
__
It’s not a slam dunk A+ for the FO in 1) making the trade for Howard and 2) dodging a bullet in not resigning him.
The issue was not that the FO let Howard go for nothing — the real issue was the opportunity cost associated with trading Bynum (at the absolute zenith of his perceived value) and the #1 picks. Could Bynum/picks have netted a better player that might have been a star for the Lakers these past few years?
Also, the question of whether the FO properly vetted Howard is appropriate. Surely, his actions in Orlando had to raise numerous red flags. And, if the FO had determined Howard was not a fit there was always an opportunity to trade him at the deadline.
Another way to look at it is the Lakers traded away a highly valued asset (Bynum) plus picks for an injured player that they didn’t vet. Or, if they did vet him and accepted the risks they did not create an environment where Howard would succeed.
Additionally, after having him for a half year they still didn’t figure out what they had or whether Howard would resign. A smarter more pragmatic approach would that if he wasn’t a good fit and or he didn’t strongly indicate he would stay then they should have moved him at the deadline. Getting something for him would have been better than having him walk for nothing during free agency.
In a hard cap league you can’t let assets walk for nothing. I’m as optimistic about the kids as anyone but I know they are 3 pieces in a ten piece pie. We’re a long ways away from competing on a sustained level.
Jim C. says
Re: Ben Simmons and D’Angelo Russell
You always want to be in a position to add talent and by accounts, Simmons is one of those rare “can’t miss” talents. But the talent has to fit together as well. For all of his strengths, Simmons’ main weakness is that he can’t hit the broad side of a barn outside of about 6 feet from the basket. He’s essentially a point-forward who needs the ball in his hands to be effective.
That’s not an ideal mesh with Russell who ALSO needs the ball in his hands to be at his best. Otherwise he’s essentially just a spot-up shooter.
So if Russell does continue to develop along the trajectory that we’ve been watching and the Lakers do manage to not only keep their pick but be in a position to draft Simmons, then it does create some “fit” questions.
When you remember the fact that Andrew Wiggins was traded to bring back Kevin Love to the Cavs, I wonder what sort of trades the Lakers would explore if they ended up in the envious position of Russell showing signs of being a future all-star while simultaneously landing the top pick in the draft.
As an example, if you’re the Kings what do you say to a Simmons for DeMarcus Cousins swap? What about if you’re the Lakers? Or, do you choose to keep Simmons and instead look to bring in a replacement for Russell instead? If so, who could you conceivably get?
Or maybe you truly do keep both and cross your fingers that Simmons and/or Randle can develop a jump shot so they aren’t clogging the lane for each other.
They’re legitimate questions.
rr says
It’s their business, and their right to operate it as they see fit.
—
Never said or implied that it isn’t.
rr says
Most of us ignore what they say, and watch what they do.Our only choices of action, unless we have the clout for a hostal takeover, is to endure, or jump on another teams bandwagon.
—————
You are making a common mistake among some of the optimist crowd here, which is attempting to dictate how other people should be fans and how they should talk about the team. DS, within the limited context of this site, can dictate the latter, if he likes. You can’t. This is also a false dichotomy: One can endure while criticizing when one feels criticism is warranted, and that is what I think many of us are choosing to do. I have been a Lakers fan for almost my entire life, even if I wanted to jump on another team’s bandwagon, I don’t think I really could.
And the other statement is wrong, since the FO did take action on both Anthony and Howard: they offered each player a max deal—that is what the FO did, and that is what I am talking about.
Anonymous says
At least the Lakers always eventually pull through, so I choose to endure, which now, thanks to the front office landing D’Angelo, is much easier.
__
You do realize DAR came at a cost of 61 losses — the worst record in franchise history. Plus, its not a given that the Lakers pull through at least not quickly. It took the Warriors four years to make the playoffs after drafting Curry. It that holds true for the Lakers we won’t be in the post season until 2019/20. That’s the rest of this decade.
rr says
Good post at 221 PM.
I think it’s important to look at three contextual issues, though:
1. The Lakers were already all-in on Nash when they added Howard, so getting Howard was just putting the rest of the chips (that is, draft picks) in the center of the table.
2. As I have said, the Nash and Howard deals were about trying to get one more title for Kobe and one more for Jerry Buss. At the time the deal was made, Jerry Buss was still alive and Kobe had not ruptured his Achilles.
3. Yes, there were red flags about Howard, but Andrew Bynum was not exactly a paragon of durability and positive attitude either, and has played a total of 52 NBA games since the Lakers traded him and is of course out of basketball now.
I backed both the Howard trade and the failed attempt to re-sign him. But as I have said and as Vasheed suggests, Howard’s absence is not really an argument for FO foresight.
rr says
Simmons: I have not seen the guy play yet, but if the Lakers FO thinks that he is a generational talent, a once-every-few-years guy, as many seem to, then all considerations of fit and trade etc. are irrelevant. Get him on the team and keep him on the team if that is at all possible.
But, IMO the Lakers can’t really sit Russell, Clarkson, and Randle to try add ping-pong balls. Play the young guys and see what happens is pretty much all there is right now.
Todd says
rr; nice posts!
__
Jim C. If the Lakers finish with the 2nd worst record (I don’t think they can catch the 76ers) then they will have a 19.9% chance at the top pick. I’m confident that Ben Simmons will stay at the top of everyone’s wish list.
If the Lakers are fortunate enough to draft him, I would hope they would keep him. I know that while reports about his outside shot are concerning there are some positives: he’s shooting 73% from the free throw line and 50% from the college Three (albeit a very small number of attempts).
I’m not naive enough to think the Lakers will instantly become a playoff contender, even with him. No far from it. However, I do think a core of Simmons, Randle, Clarkson and Russell will make progress on the floor.
Plus, I think that Lakers fans are much like Dodger fans (I would know as I grew up one). There was a huge amount of pride and loyalty around the 70’s Dodgers partly because they won a lot but also because their young core of Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey. They were kids drafted by the team who formed the foundation of a very successful run. Now, they needed help through trades (free-agency was as big then) but it was that young core that galvanized the fans.
I can kind of see that with Randle, Clarkson and Russell but in my mind adding a fourth stud youngster , especially Simmons, would really make that vision a reality.
One thing to note about Simmons, at 6′ 10″ 240 its not inconceivable that he plays a small ball center, or he and Randle just play forwards and match up each night against the opposition in a manner that benefits the Lakers.
Bottom line for me is that there is not an existing NBA player that I would give up Ben Simmons for. Fingers crossed that he’s in the Lakers future.
A Horse With No Name says
Don’t forget 6 of the Bucks were at LA Strip bar till 2am night before game and Monroe didn’t play.
Memo to KO: 2am is 10:30 pm for NBA players. Bedtime is 3:00-4:00am, Afternoon nap before game day warm-up. Strip clubs? Better for circulation than cigars . . . .
matt says
We have yet to win vs the west…
I don’t think Michael Carter williams has the ability to close his mouth, did you see that grill
T. Rogers says
The problem with losing to get a top pick is just that a losing mentality sets in. At some point the guys you drafted have to learn to win on the NBA level. I’d rather Randle, Russell, and Clarkson learn positive, winning habits than them mentally mail it in because they know the drill. That sets a bad precedent. Sure they will lose most nights anyway. But we want them to play to win. That’s how they truly get better.
I don’t know how good Ben Simmons is. I don’t follow college basketball. I do know that this time last year Okafor was touted as THEE franchise changing talent. And maybe he is. Still the team he plays for has played about 25 games and only won one.
One of the worst things about the Lakers being terrible is always hearing about some savior 19 year old they need to lose 65 games for. I’m so over that.
Todd says
Bottom line for me is that there is not an existing NBA player that I would give up Ben Simmons for.
__
To clarify this comment. A colleague of mine is an LSU grad so its possible that our conversations about Simmons has biased my perspective.
But, I think that you’d have to keep someone who has been compared favorably to Lebron. The upside is just too great to pass up.
Again, the draft is a ways off and regardless of our seeding we’ll need some luck to be able to draft Simmons.
KevTheBold says
@rr “You are making a common mistake among some of the optimist crowd here, which is attempting to dictate how other people should be fans and how they should talk about the team.”
The statement of “I scratch my head as to why,” does not an order make.
No dictating going on on my end.
On your end however, your arm chair front office game and rants could be and probably is to some a form of trolling.
@rr “You do realize DAR came at a cost of 61 losses — the worst record in franchise history. Plus, its not a given that the Lakers pull through at least not quickly.”
Who said anything about quick? Even if it takes a decade, it’s more than any other team in Logical Nba history.
Listen rr, anonymous and whomever you are,..I have also been a Laker fan for my whole life which from our outlooks of Laker history would seem to be longer than yours.
Since all your rehashing of the past is as useful and productive as your complaints about the front office, I must say in all honesty, that in my experience, complainers in sports venues are usually in reality simply venting personal life frustrations.
The problem is, their venting is forcing negative vibes on us all.
Before you begin to respond, let me clarify,… I have not dictated anything, only have given my opinion about how negativity affects me, and the other optimists who you seem to have a problem with, even though we post hopeful, while you do the opposite.
Now go on,.. your turn.
Craig W. says
The comment about ‘dodging a bullet’ was not intended to be a reflection on the front office – good or bad – but just that I am glad we don’t have Dwight Howard in a Laker uniform at this time.
IMO, the front office has been very good at evaluating talent in the draft, plus I think their hand was forced to play the free-agent game with gusto. I do think they severely overplayed their hand in the PR department with talking so much about free-agents. The Lakers have never been a prime free agent destination for the top talent – drafting and trades have been their primary way of replenishing the team. The last big trades we have made were Nash & Howard and those didn’t work out well – though both myself & rr were in favor at the time.
All this is to say that I don’t consider myself a front office optimist. However, I don’t really see where all the complete negativity comes from – unless we are spoiled and expect the Lakers to forever be on top of the NBA world.
Andres Garcia says
The odds are tough so I’m rooting for us to win games. Besides Simmons, is there another player worth tanking for anyway? Bc at best, it’s a 1/4 shot but probably 1/5 (at 2) or close to 1/6 (at 3). Just try to win games and develop the kids. Besides, even if they go on a mini-run, winning 25 games is a reach (21-38 finish). So they’ll probably have a comparatively decent shot at Simmons anyway. My hope is that we look competent, show some progress and swing at some youngish FAs this offseason (KD ain’t coming). Ideally a rim protector/rim runner to play p n r with DAR.
KevTheBold says
Great Post Craig!
Spoiled is right,.. 16 championships, 10 of them when the NBA was the NBA and not some peach basket ball tossing league, (like the Celtics for example.)
Now that Jerry died and the Buss family is trying to find their footing, it’s like a Frankenstein movie with all the pitchforks and torches, Lol !
KevTheBold says
Andres, Yes !
There is Skal Labissiere, Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown, Jamal Murray, all with great potential.
I must point out however that since Russell played with Simmons, there is familiarity there.
That said, I believe Skal would also be a great choice as a center.
Andres Garcia says
@kev: I know Skal is super young so he deserves time to develop and he definitely has some physical tools. But he looked far away from even being impactful at the high college level. saw him against UCLA and forgot he was on the floor at times. We’ll see how he progresses by end of the year and maybe that was just a really bad game. Haven’t seen the other guys yet tho.
matt says
I saw sal labissier play vs ucla he got pushed around, benched most of the game, sorry above post we must have posted same time
rr says
Kev,
If you don’t want to dictate telling others how to be fans, then you might consider avoiding statements about what choices others have as fans. And no, I am not trolling. Feel free to ignore me at your pleasure. If you are simply venting because you dont like negativity then have at it. Finally all my posts have my handle and Anon and I are diff people
Parrothead Phil says
Saying that the Lakers got lucky and dodged a bullet by losing Howard is not an endorsement of the FO. It is simply an observation that Howard is not the centerpiece for an organization the way most people believed. Let’s not turn every thread into a repeat of everyone’s favorite argument. I am content to savor this win in a season when wins are, and will to continue to be, few and far between.
KevTheBold says
Andres, the scouts give Skal two thumbs up, but personally, since I have not had the time to view all of his footage, I have yet to see that star potential I saw in D’Angelo.
From what I have seen however, selecting him if Simmons is taken would be a chance worth taking in light of his position.
That said, after seeing how DAR is progressing into the NBA with Randle and Clarkson and possibly Nance and Brown, I’m fine with simply developing our kids, then next summer, if lighting strikes, and brings us an FA which won’t suck the confidence out of our core, who rightfully view themselves as our future stars,…see what occurs.
But I don’t hold my breath, and believe that in time our core will learn to compete, especially with a new generation coach at the helm.
rr says
Craig,
Most of my complaints with FO are post D12 as I have said. I have laid them out before.
Parrot,
Fair enough but I would suggest that you look at how the subject was broached.
KevTheBold says
@rr, fair enough.
In closing however I was speaking of choices of action, not behavior.
An action in this case, attempts to control, alter or change; which is a power we as fans don’t enjoy over our front office.
Therefore what remains is to: ignore, endure, or move on.
Venting only relieves the frustration of the venter, yet that negativity, drains energy and hope, while positivity does the opposite.
I have no control over what anyone does, yet I have the right to respond when someone constantly wants to burst my bubble don’t I ?
Fern says
I want the Lakers to win the most games that they can, all this crap about Simmons is wishful thinking, if we have the worst record in the entire NBA and then we get the 4th pick it was all for nothing, i could care less about that pick, i rather win as much as possible and show some foward momentum than being bad on purpose on the possibility that MAYBE we keep that pick, i dont want the Lakers to become the Sixers, with all the cap space next summer and our young core we can hope to rebuild faster and not having to suck like this for another year, im sick and tired of losing, i hope last night wasn’t a fluke and we can win more games…
Robert says
Kev: I am not sure why you are arguing with rr. Your basic premise is everything should be about the youngsters, and rr has said that many times. You want Kobe to continue to reform or get out of the way. Guess what – rr was against the extension. Further, you do not particularly like Byron, and rr was never a huge Byron fan either (not that he was against him, but he never saw Byron as the answer). So what is the issue? Oh yea – the FO. Well, there is that. You see, rr has always called things like he sees them, and this is the third straight season of abysmal performance and all of their major moves have turned out bad (draft picks are pending). I do like your point about the peach baskets. I use that on Celtic fans myself. Since 1980, we have 10 titles in 16 trips to the Finals. They have 4 titles in 7 trips to the Finals. It is not even close in what is the NBA equivalent of the Super Bowl era. However as you said – that is the past. Let’s move to the future. Which is why I can’t wait until the summer of 2017 when the real rebuild begins.
Devean George Forever says
For a break from the Dwight talk, TMZ’s story on the Bucks’ night out before the Lakers game
http://www.tmz.com/2015/12/16/milwaukee-bucks-strip-club-lakers/
And the twitter feed for the “club” the Bucks were at:
https://twitter.com/AceOfDiamondsLA?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Anonymous says
“Lakers Stomp the Bucks, Offer Most Fun Night of their Season”
Yeah! I’d like to brag up I saw a game like this comin’, and actually, I kinda did 🙂
Oops, sorry to interrupt. Back to our regularly-scheduled front office squawkfest programming…
KevTheBold says
@Robert,
I never comment against rr, only respond when he comments against me, or tries to constantly steer my comments towards the front office, versus addressing fan based misconceptions or mistakes that I see in Byron’s choices.
By the way, it’s good to see another person that knows the truth about Celtic title reality versus hype.
I’m all about moving towards the future, and agree, it’s when the real rebuild begins !
rr says
Kev,
Sure. But I would respectfully suggest that calling people spoiled, entitled, etc. is also an energy drainer. I have some hope for the Lakers, but we are talking about a 4-21 team that is down two draft picks, has a coach most people have zero faith in and many on-line openly and continually disrespect, and a FO that can be seriously questioned and is not well thought-off outside of a subset of the fanbase. And if we focus on Ws and Ls, the optimists have been wrong each of the last three years.
But there is reason for hope. I supported Russell > Okafor and I still feel good about that. I am not wowed by Randle, but he looks like he can be a plus player. Clarkson is pretty good; Nance looks like a rotation guy. The FO looks pretty good on all those picks right now. The Lakers will have a lot of cap space, even with the cap expanding.
That said, if the O’Brien Trophy is the top of Mt. Everest, the Lakers are still forming their ascent team at base camp, may not have the right guides or equipment, and have not even really started the climb.
rubenowski says
In an unrelated note, is it just me or has anyone else noticed that refs aren’t calling travel when players carry the ball or take an extra step? Im seeing more of that this year than before.
matt says
In my opinion, if the lakers can’t sign a big time free agent they are going to have to commit to at least one guy, and then they will probably get another subpar 1 year deal guy along with him, and wait till 2017 free agents
rr says
The problem is, their venting is forcing negative vibes on us all.
—
If this is how you feel, then you might try checking the mirror, instead of focusing on me or any other fans.
Craig W. says
rr,
You are a well known, and very intelligent NBA mind, with a particular blind spot regarding the front office. We all know where you are coming from, as do most readers know my biases. Therefore, your intelligence is most effectively used to comment on situations outside the front office scenario. I will try to do likewise.
Robert says
rr: “Mt. Everest, the Lakers are still forming their ascent team at base camp” Nice ! And before we send our youngsters up on that treacherous ascent, we definitely need a completely new group of Sherpas. Without them nobody gets to the top.
matt: “and wait till 2017 free agents” So I see you are joining the Summer of 2017 bandwagon. Welcome aboard !
KevTheBold says
rr, glad to see we have some commonalities.
Where we differ however is the day to day handing of our common frustration {yes, we optimists experience frustration over the harsh realities of life}.
Yes, again, yes, the Busses are still lost without their dad, but they will pull through.
We can’t fault them for failing to take us right back to the top.
No team has ever quickly rebounded after losing their owner and their star cornerstone to devasting injury.
Why not now, that we have some hope, simply enjoy the team as they learn and grow?
You supported the D’Angelo pick, and I assume you know how rare a player of his caliber is.
All we need do now is build around him and let nature take it’s course.
rr says
Kev,
I am not as high on Russell as you are, but I think he can be a very good NBA player. He has great instincts and natural talent for playing offense. But I do not consider myself to be much of a scout, so he may well end up being better (or, although I really, really hope not) worse than I think.
The Dane says
So if Lakers beat the Bucks, who beat the Warriors, that must equate to the Lakers being top of the world…. right?
Fern says
@The Dane, the Lakers are the best team in the world right now lol
tankyou says
A 17 game winning streak and we are back to .500 baby!
I’m with rr in regards to DAR. I see him as potentially a “good player” which for me means somewhere around top 20-30 at his position. All his potential is on the offensive side of the ball. I see him struggling against good point guards, especially fast ones his whole career. So the only question is how good a passer/shooter can he be in the years to come. In no way do I see DAR as our #1 option guy, and if he is, then we are doomed to mediocrity. Also I prefer the team to have some 2-way players, its just not that exciting to watch guys disappear for half the game when they are on defense. We have a team full of guys who at best play defense in spurts.
The Bucks stink and have a ton of injuries. But whatever, it feels good to see a victory and some of our guys play efficiently. I don’t think our 2nd worse status is in serious jeopardy though. And Byron is bound to help us lose more close games that we possibly could win, he’s real good at that.
rr says
Tank,
Good post but one quibble: research strongly indicates that records in very close games are pretty random. Last year, for example, here are some records of teams in games decided by 3 points or less:
SA: 6-7
Lakers: 6-6
NO: 10-4
Utah: 5-10
GS: 5-3
BOS: 8-6
SA is coached by a guy who is universally regarded as one of the greatest coaches ever; Quin Snyder is very well thought-of. Analytics guys worship Brad Stevens and Steve Kerr. OTOH, Monty Williams got fired in NO and Byron Scott is an internet punching bag. Mike Brown’s 2012 Lakers team was 10-4 in such games.
The Lakers are 0-3 in such games this season, but SA is 1-3, and Dallas, coached by another analytics idol, Rick Carlisle, is also 1-3.
So, I think those who are arguing that Byron is such a terrible coach that he is actively creating many losses that a better coach would turn into wins should probably take the position that the Lakers are losing a lot of games by 5-12 points because Byron is not good at putting guys into position to succeed and his overall big-picture tactics are bad. I don’t have an opinion on that, but I do know that while this site is much more collectively even-handed about Scott than some other internet watering holes and writers are, a presumption exists that pretty much everything Byron does is dumb and anything that goes well either happens in spite of him or because he saw it much later than he should have. For example, I have yet to see anyone suggest that Russell’s and Kobe’s recent good play was in part created by how Scott has been handling them. To be clear, I am not saying that it was or it wasn’t. But I am confident that if a coach people believed in had decided to bring DAR off the bench the reaction would have been much different.
KevTheBold says
@Tank “I’m with rr in regards to DAR. I see him as potentially a “good player” which for me means somewhere around top 20-30 at his position. All his potential is on the offensive side of the ball. I see him struggling against good point guards, especially fast ones his whole career. So the only question is how good a passer/shooter can he be in the years to come. In no way do I see DAR as our #1 option guy, and if he is, then we are doomed to mediocrity.”
Tank, Aren’t you the one who believed that the team would build around Randle?
The reason I ask is that I have noticed that some here have developed attachments to certain players from last season, like Randle or Clarkson, and the built up support they have expressed over many months, would be invalidated, if someone else, especially someone new were to rise over them.
Let’s however speak about this familiar, yet to most, outdated idea about DAR’s defensive capability.
Over the past 4 games since he has been unleashed, so to speak, he’s stolen the ball 8 times, and is playing much better defense than many thought he could.
I think we forget that he’s only 19 and a rookie, yet is performing much better than anyone expected.
Let’s take Curry, another thin body player: Only last year did he develop a defensive game, after Kerr challenged him to become more defensive minded, and he averages now 2 steals a game; and has a much higher defensive rating in all aspects.
These issues are however to me not as important as the rare gifts a player needs, in order to become the best.
Yes, I’m speaking about individual prowess, not the team concept, which is much touted today.
Though a great team is helpful, {*yet not essential} to get your team to the place where your killer can take over.
Kobe is rare and special because only he, has that rare killer instinct and internal confidence which, combined with supreme skill, allowed him to take over games and win them on his terms.
*He carried pathetic teams to the playoffs on his back alone, and despite what others may believe about the power of Shaq or Pau, it was Kobe who was the go-to guy, and from an earlier time than most realize.
Some say Lebron has it,.. I say No,.. because during the crunch time, he would rather pass the ball than take it all on his shoulders. All those finals loses are proof of that.
Kevin Durant or Westbrook? No.
Carmello? No.
Of all established players: Curry is the one I see which has that ultra-rare beast in him.
Now take a look at the Laker vs Timberwolves, and you will see a 19 year old kid attempt to take over a game. Though we lost, he just about pulled it off on the final shot.
In the past 4 games, this kid has scored 78 points, 12 from 3, and 20 assists !
He scored 24 points against the best defense in the League: The Spurs !
Can you imagine what he will be like in a few years ?
D’Angelo has the beast in him, and the skill set to compliment it; and the most important aspect of this is he was born with it, it’s innate, and I have always said, that you either have it, or you don’t, especially for a point guard; and this kid has it in spades.
Take a look at the faces watching him from the sidelines, Tony Parker, Jason Kidd, and Kobe Bryant and you see clearly that they recognize the amazing talent in him.
The Lakers would be foolish not to build around this phenomenal kid.
Baylor Fan says
rr – the point is not so much how DAR is being used but the apparent absence of communication of what the coach expects of him. If DAR was told ahead of time what to expect and why it was being done, he would not have been caught wondering what he did to irritate the coach. The same with Randall; why on earth wait for the two games in Texas to bench him at the start of games and reduce his minutes? This was his homecoming and out of the blue he appeared to have fallen out of favor.
Ruben – I agree that travelling seems to be randomly enforced. I saw players shuffle their feet on catch and shoots last night. What still is common is calling travelling on young players when they initiate their dribble. In addition, veteran players going up for dunks are allowed to take as many steps as they need and can hold the ball however they want to. For example, try cradling the ball like a football and not travel sometime.
matt says
I would like to appluad kev on his newpaper article above,
I think Russell looks good defensively, I’ve noticed his improvement starting about 10 games back, I’m not saying he’s great but he looks capable against big time players, now when games get away from them the whole team crumbles, but most of russell’s faults defensively come on ball watching and trying to help and his guy slips away, but you can’t blame him when other guys miss rotations defensively, most of which russell’s guy scores upon are plays were rotation is missed by his teammates, he’s a rookie and is gonna get heat from his teammates for every mistake but his defense skills are definitely noteworthy.
rr says
Baylor,
Perhaps, but the point for me is whether this kind of stuff, where Byron does or says something, and a bunch of people start doing what you are doing: WTF? WTF? WTF? is actually and seriously negatively affecting Russell, Randle, and Clarkson between the lines. People tend to presume that stuff Byron says and does that bothers them is really bad for the young guys.
TBH, I am not seeing a lot of specific evidence in support of that idea right now. That is not an endorsement of Scott; my view, as I said in preseason, is that if Russell and Randle have it, Byron and Kobe won’t be able to stop them from showing it. Russell and Randle are both playing about like I thought they would, and Clarkson of course has exceeded most people’s expectations already.
But I may be wrong; I have always been more of a talent/roster guy than a coaching guy.
swedishmeatballs says
Off topic I guess, but just a thought: Presuming the NBA draft is fixed, would the NBA have any incentive to give the number 1 pick to the Lakers?
tankyou says
@KevTheBold,
I am the person that thinks Randle has the most upside of our 3 young guys. In terms of “building around” I’m also of the belief that we need someone else that isn’t on our current roster to become a legitimate contender in the years to come. So in a sense, I don’t think any of our 3 guys should be our #1 option–assuming we are a solid high level playoff team again.
But at this point its mostly just different opinions, I see Randle as the better player, I also see him as a potential 2 way player. But who knows, we won’t know for sure until things happen. This year clearly isn’t enough to be a crystal ball for the future. I’m more concerned with who we put around the young 3. We need good defenders and some good 3 point shooters and a Coach that can run an offense and defense at a high level. I know coaching is considered nearly worthless by many, but I think it actually matters, especially at the high level. But clearly players are the most important piece, so I’m still waiting for our big pick-up. I just can’t see us being much more than a fringe playoff team at least not for many many years if our best 3 players are DAR/Clarkson/Randle–even as they continue to improve.
I think Randle has the highest chance of becoming a “beast” on this team. Maybe a top 3-4 guy at his position. I really don’t see DAR being a top 10 guy at his position, but like I said, its too early to tell clearly. So we all guess differently. I admit to being slightly anti-DAR initially b/c we already had Clarkson, who was playing PG who was clearly looking pretty good already. Also, I don’t think DAR was worth the 2nd pick. But again only time will tell. Rooks just don’t do too good in this league, the Lebron’s are amazingly rare.
Baylor Fan says
rr – my experience ends with varsity HS sports. I have known kids that went on to play DI sports in college and they cared very much what their coach had to say. If you look at a pro team as a collection of (mostly former) all-stars, it is easy to see that there needs to be a lot of ego management to keep everyone aligned with the team goals. Randle lacked energy in Texas which is not like him at all. I am sure it does not matter long term but in the short term it has to have him doubting the coach’s ability to work with him. It is just another piece of the puzzle of running a team.
KevTheBold says
@ Tank, if you can shrug off DAR’s stats, then imo, your anti-dar bias remains in full force.