After a pretty unpleasant — at least aesthetically — game against the Jazz on Sunday, the Lakers play the Pelicans at Staples Center Tuesday night. Though they have had a home heavy schedule of late, the Lakers bring with them a 4 game losing streak and have lost 8 of 11 overall. They have been playing better, but there are still holes too large to cover up with their current roster construction and schematic approach.
Sunday’s loss against the Jazz also saw the team dealing with the injuries, something they hope is mostly rectified tonight. After sitting out with a sprained ankle and eye injury respectively, D’Angelo Russell and Brandon Bass are going to try and play tonight. If I were to guess, I’d say both find their way into the lineup, though I’d be more cautious with Russell and have my doubts he sees his regular minutes.
The other injury, of course, is Kobe and his strained right achilles tendon. Kobe is listed as questionable, but I’d imagine he does not play tonight. No, this is not his surgically repaired tendon, but that makes being cautious even more prudent. The last thing Kobe needs to do is to try and run out there and give it a go when the ramifications of injuring the leg further could mean an even longer absence (or worse).
Speaking of injuries, it’s the Pelicans who have many more issues to navigate than the Lakers — problems they’ve dealt with all season. Anthony Davis is questionable with a back contusion and Quincy Pondexter has just been ruled out for the year to have knee surgery. These after the team has dealt with Jrue Holiday, Omer Asik, and Tyreke Evans being banged up earlier in the year.
Not having guys available has really been the main backstory to the Pels’ season. Over the summer and into the preseason, they were looked at as a team who should compete for one of the bottom playoff spots in the West. After poaching Alvin Gentry from the Warriors’ staff to serve as head coach and the contract extension of Anthony Davis, many thought this team was ready to take the next step forward. That, of course, has not happened and instead they are one of the lesser teams in the league with only 3 more wins than the Lakers.
All of this is to say I have no clue what to make of tonight’s match up. Should Davis play, the Pelicans should be the clear favorites since he alone can change the landscape of any game he plays in. However, if he does see action he’ll be banged up and if he sits the argument could be made the Lakers are just as talented as the Pels. Sure, they have better veteran talent, but they also do not boast much shooting (even more so after Pondexter’s gone out) which complicates how effective they can be offensively.
For the Lakers, then, this is a game they have a chance to win. And considering they play the Warriors on Thursday, this might be a game they try to give a little bit extra in order to secure a W rather than go into Oakland on a 5 game losing streak (which will likely become 6 at night’s end).
In order to accomplish this the Lakers’ wings must be ready to defend. With or without Davis, a lot of the team’s offense will still flow through Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans, and Eric Gordon. Gordon and Holiday have all court games and can both shoot the three ball, while Evans does his best work off the bounce. If the Lakers cannot contain these three, they will not only get their own buckets, but the floor will open up for Ryan Anderson and the team’s role players who feed off what others create for them.
It’s on Clarkson, Williams, Russell (should he play), Young, and Brown to slow these guys. It will also be on Randle, Nance, Hibbert, and Bass to control the paint and be effective first line helpers when dribble penetration is surrendered.
Offensively the Lakers must control pace and try to speed up the game via open court chances. The Pelicans aren’t a good defensive team, but the Lakers are still too stagnant in the half court to try and grind out games that way. Getting easier baskets against defenses that aren’t yet set is still their best strategy. Considering the Pelicans aren’t a good offensive rebounding team, this may give the Lakers a chance to secure some defensive boards and then push the ball.
Where you can watch: 7:30pm start time on TWC Sportsnet. Also listen on ESPN Radio 710AM Los Angeles.
Vasheed says
I wasn’t sold on the Pelicans being all that good before the year started. They sink or swim with Davis and he hasn’t had a healthy season yet.
Then again I thought the Lakers would be much better than they are. Although I still believe they are more talented than the results suggest. I think Scott’s Princeton is that bad.
Anonymous says
Davis is a great talent but he sure seems to get injured a lot. There’s not much talent on the team besides him. Lottery team.
KO says
Has there ever been a good basketball team named after a bird?
New York Pigions
Dallas Crows
Washington Voltures
LA Sharknatos
lil pau says
The Hawks have been pretty good. Plenty of NFL teams as well– Cardinals, Eagles, Seahawks….
Hitting the Amarone a little early today?
R says
http://www.mercurynews.com/warriors/ci_29374854/warriors-worst-nightmare-todd-fuller-instead-kobe-bryant
Off topic, but great link about the breaks of the game. I’ve had the opportunity to follow the train wreck that was the Warriors in the 90s & 00s so I guess it could be encouraging to us Lakers fans that they have risen from the ashes although it took a loooong time and everything – including the ownership – had to change for it to happen.
KO says
Just an ATTEMPT TO get Sharknato into the site.
Mid-Wilshire says
BTW, I see Demar DeRozan as a possible FA play for the Lakers this summer. He is averaging 22.9 ppg, (on 44.6% shooting), 4.4 rebounds, and 4.1 assists. In his last 8 games, he has scored the following: 19, 35, 15, 19, 24, 23, 34, 19). So, he seems very consistent.
Also, he’s 6-7, 221. That means that the Lakers could slot him into the SF position easily and keep their young back court of Russell and Clarkson intact. He’s currently 26 years old (birthday: August 7, 1989). And he’s entering his prime.
He claims to be extremely loyal to the Toronto Raptors, however. He was drafted by them in 2009 (#9 in the first round) and they’re the only team he’s ever played for.
On the other hand, he was born and raised in Compton (i.e., South-Central LA) and he went to college at USC. So, signing with the Lakers could represent a home coming for him of sorts. Also, Lou Williams and Demar were team mates at Toronto. Lou (if he’s still with the Lakers this summer as I believe he probably will be) could possibly help with the recruitment.
I think the Lakers could be a front-runner in biding for DeRozan if he’s open to leaving Toronto. If the Lakers were to get him, he could be a major asset.
It’s just a thought.
Mid-Wilshire says
Here’s Kurt Helin’s take on DeRozan’s probable upcoming Free Agency (he’s betting Demar will stay put in Toronto):
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/01/12/report-as-expected-lakers-will-offer-max-to-demar-derozan-this-summer/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs
Todd says
Mid: I’ve always liked DeRozan’s game, even when he spurned UCLA and chose to attend USC. The Helin’ article is likely corrrect — DeRozan stays put.
This is the problem that the FO chose not to acknowledge by going with a sign multiple elite free agent strategy or bust approach. Younger free agents that could have been signed these past two summers were ignored. This approach left a hole in the Lakers roster.
The Lakers are missing the ‘young veterans with upside’ component of their roster. It’s the kids and vets — and that’s it. The kids haven’t proven anything yet — at least not to make a near elite or elite free agent say that this is where they will play ‘the most important four year portion of their careers’. The vets are just average at best.
Think about that when DeRozan says no and KD says no. You’d be asking KD, for example, to play his age 28 – 32 years; essentially his last productive years as a player; on a team that might be ready to compete in years three or four of that contract. That’s a lot to ask and it’s the reason why he’s not coming to the Lakers.
Jim and Mitch should have known that their strategy was hit or miss. And they should have known that if they missed the likelihood was that the Lakers would be rebuilding through the end of the decade.
I’m not going to rehash who the Lakers should have tried to sign but there were a number of young vets that could have been had if the FO had acted quickly and decisively.
R says
Well, they have another chance to get it right, coming right up.
matt says
Byron scott said the lineup looks good like it is, and the 1st unit is playing well.” No need to make any changes.” What is really gonna on here. Is this coach blind.
BigCitySid says
-Nets and Suns have been sinking fast. Now the Pelicans look like they may be joining this trio to compete with the Lakers & 76ers for the 3 highest draft picks.
– Nightmare scenario: Nets get the 1st pick: (Ben Simmons?), which they owe to the Celtics this year, while the Lakers finish with a better record than the 76ers, Nets, Suns and/or Pels thus sending their pick to the Suns or 76ers.
– Somebody tell me the chances of this happening are too small to be concerned about.
Busboys4me says
Has me in cold sweats every night. I want at least the second pick, but the kids seem hell bent on winning.
Mid-Wilshire says
Todd,
I would agree that DeRozan will probably remain in Toronto. From all reports, he really likes it there. And there’s no real reason for him to leave the Raptors.
However, if the Lakers do pursue him, that would actually make some sense (much more sense than pursuing Carmelo or LaMarcus Aldridge). DeRozan actually fills a specific need (SF). And he’s entering his prime. Furthermore, he’s an LA-kid. Joining the Lakers would be a good excuse to come home.
I don’t expect it to happen, though. Even so, it would be worth a shot. Even though they probably won’t get him, I wouldn’t hold it against the Lakers if they pursued DeRozan pretty hard.
matt says
Big city.. i hear ya,,
76ers 4-36
Lakers 8-31
Nets 10-28
Pelicans 11-25
Suns 13-26
But there is hope as long as hibbert remains a starter
Snarky George says
The Lakers are missing the ‘young veterans with upside’ component of their roster. It’s the kids and vets — and that’s it. The kids haven’t proven anything yet — at least not to make a near elite or elite free agent say that this is where they will play ‘the most important four year portion of their careers’. The vets are just average at best.
__
This year and next look about the same: a bit of a struggle. However, if the kids become consistent and one of them (likely Russell) shows star quality then the Lakers could make a run at an elite in 2017.
Note, there are a few free agents this summer that could satisfy the missing ‘young veterans with upside’ component. One of them has already been mentioned, DeRozan. I am hopeful that he is not a lock for Toronto and the prospect of playing at ‘home’ appeals to him. Plus, I really like Meyers Leonard, who is a restricted free agent but I suspect an aggressive offer might pry him away from the Blazers.
DeRozan and Leonard play SF and Center — positions of need. At least we could then field a young team that has upside. Bottom line, I do agree that this may take some time to turnaround.
Todd says
Mid – Don’t get me wrong. I would love to have DeRozan. He fits a position of need and he’s young. But I fear, without a leap of faith on his part, that Toronto provides a better chance to win (and an extra contract year). DeRozan is a really good player who is also attractive because he essentially has the same competitive window as the kids. You alluded to and others have mentioned this as well — Melo/Aldridge were not good fits due to their age/mileage. They would have been on their downward arc by the time the kids were ready.
In my mind collecting as much talent on the same timeline is the best course. DeRozan fits the bill as does Snarky’s choice of Meyers Leonard (who can play a stretch Four and Five). I’m not saying the Lakers are dead in the water but this FO has done a poor job of roster construction and balance — which are critical to moving the franchise forward and ultimately attracting elite free agents.
The tight rope walk of paying homage to Kobe, trying to win, maintaining roster flexibility and developing the kids ultimately meant none of these objectives could be satisfactorily achieved. They have become diluted into a homogenized mess — and it shows in the standings.
Busboys4me says
The Lakers FO is doing a wonderful job of tanking Kobe’s last year. They are featuring him, selling out arenas and attempting to lose enough to secure a valuable pick. This I don’t mind. Get me a top two and let’s go from there. Philly with a twist.
R says
The paying homage to Kobe task is nearly halfway complete. So there’s that.
The team may have a fair amount of cap flexibility in coming years if high profile FAs continue to pass.
Fern says
I like DeRozan as much as the next guy but all this bs was said about Kevin Love, Melo, Jimmy Butler, ect, any team would offer him a max deal if they could so, but he likes Toronto and they have his Bird rights.I don’t see why this is important. Unless he sign on the dotted line and is in a Laker jersey i dont give a crap. The Lakers needs to get talent around our young core and if we get that pick even better, tired of the home run approach.
Robert says
Well – so we are not even at the half way point of the season, and we are already having our first off-season FA discussion : ) When considering such things we need to think about, who is going to coach the team, who is going to manage the team, are we going to keep the pick, and what is our plan to get back to contention. If we do not have all those answers we will go through another off season aimlessly chasing stars, and signing a motley crew of roster fillers. This coming summer has the chance of being particularly chaotic as we will have the Byron issue, the pending 2017 Jim deadline, and a Kobeless team trying to sell season tickets to a frustrated fanbase. The thought of that triumvirate of issues does not fill me with confidence about the State of Our Union.
KevTheBold says
Bravo Fern !
Here we have a core with great potential, we should focus on how to build on that core.
Anonymous says
Here we have a core with great potential, we should focus on them.
—-
Some are not as high on our youngsters. Witness the recent Pelton article.
KevTheBold says
And some are.
KO says
Kobe out again. Wonder what truth is about this injury. I hear worse then being told.
Gary says
Fern: the Lakers FO went hard after Melo/Aldridge in lieu of pursuing other non elite players. Which is why the Lakers are where they are. The FO’ Plan B appears to have been to hit the lottery and get kids. They have little else to show for all these losses.
I’ve read enough posts to know you don’t support taking steps to keep the pick, now you say don’t want to pursue the free agency/home run signing. FYI: DeRozan may be a max player but he’s not really elite.
Just curious — what are your thoughts on how the Lakers acquire talent around our ‘potentially great’ core? What is your timeline for the Lakers to become competitive? Not trying to be combative just want to understand your perspective.
Anonymous says
R
Great link about the Warriors, Kobe and the draft.
Fun read and informative too. I remember Twardzik as a player! Haha
Thanks for sharing it.
KO says
Never mind. Kobe playing. 710 was wrong.
Should be win tonight.
KO says
Never mind Kobe not playing.
Looks terrible.
What a bad team.
Tim says
Slava Medvedenko sighting at the game tonight.
Fern says
Gary it’s not that I don’t want the pick, is that a lot of people are putting way too much stock and think of the pick like this savior cure it all solution, if we get the 4th pick all goes down the drain, so im not even counting on it unless is a done deal, we have some young players that could be pretty good, get a Luke *cough* i mean a good coach, put talent around that compliment these kids, dont have to be superstars just solids players that can play defense too. And let them grow togheter, it’s worth a shot, unless there is a event like Boston in ’07 or Miami in ’10, that i think is the best way to move foward, i dont pretend to be an expert or nothing like that, but “superstars” won’t come here unless there is some kind of foundation in place. Contending for a championship? 2018-19 at the earliest unless some FA coup happens…
Anonymous says
I don’t want to consider the Lakers future If Pelton is right and only Russell is a star with Clarkson/Nance/Randle being nothing more than rotation pieces. The Lakers are not distinguishing themselves against a bad Pelicans team.
J C says
I just don’t agree with those who say the Lakers are a poor defensive team because of their personnel.
Defense can be taught.
Defense MUST be taught to some players.
Defense must be coached.
A team must work on Defense in practice – drilled – on rotating, helping the helper, dropping to the level of the ball, opening up and seeing the ball at all times, when to double team, when to trap, boxing out, etc etc etc.
These fundamentals apply no matter how athletic or unathletic the player despite age.
This team is not being coached on defense.
Grrrrrrrrr!!!
Fern says
They lost to the Sixers, there is nothing lower than that
Mid-Wilshire says
It’s late in the 2nd quarter and the Lakers are 0-11 from 3 point range.
I know of some girls’ basketball teams that shoot better than that.
Tim says
Kobe is done for the night, sore Achilles.
dxmanners says
Never thought I’d long to see Ryan Kelly get some minutes, at least he can put the ball in the basket. Anthony Brown brings nothing to the table. These halves in the 30’s are hard to watch.
KO says
Like I said Kobe can not play. Out again for game.
That Achilles is much worse then we are told.
marques says
Well….Randle can’t finish in traffic, to compensate for that he is out of control and tries to rush shots.
Clarkson could be a 6th or 7th Man. Also out of control.
Lots of pressure on Russell to be something.
Anonymous says
Well good news is last 2 years of Bryons contract is team option.
J C says
This just in:
The Pelicans are lousy too.
I smell overtime!
Randle just seem to get on track.
It’s tough to watch. He’s trying too hard.
Anonymous says
On the flip side, Russell is really starting to shine.
He’s a pleasure to watch.
Anonymous says
Why is DAR on the bench to finish the game??
KO says
Because Bryon thinks 1 for 10 and 0 for 7 by Lou is really good.
Anonymous says
Well, kiss the pick good bye. Be prepared for the same 20 win team again next year.
rr says
Tank schmank, say the Lakers
Chearn says
Say what you will, but Byron has this team playing with some Lakers Pride of late. The previous game withholding.
Still, I’d hate to see Ben Simmons teamed up with Anthony Davis in the future.
Kbj says
I’m fine with the Lakers winning. The problem is Lou Williams once again was one of the main catalysts. I really hope FO is calling other teams for offers.
KO says
Come on. Without Davis they are worse. He will be back.
Don’t foget we have Roy and Bryon.
16 wins gets you 2nd worst.
Fern says
People bitching because the Lakers won a damn game, unbelievable, for things like this is that I really hope we don’t get the stupid pick.
Baylor Fan says
It is good to see Brown getting a chance to play. Maybe the Lakers will reach a critical mass of players willing to play defense.
AusPhil says
Fern – Preach. Be happy with the W. Play the season and let the ping pong balls fall where they may.
Ended up a fun game, but as others have been saying, they HAVE to play some D. Dribble penetration equals a layup against LA, because our guards can’t stay in front, and the back line rotations are poor at best. Drive, dish, dunk. Not good.
Anonymous says
“the Lakers FO went hard after Melo/Aldridge in lieu of pursuing other non elite players. Which is why the Lakers are where they are.”
_____
Is there any hard evidence for this? Who should they have signed who (a) was willing to join the Lakers, (b) didn’t end up getting overpaid and (c) had the right age for a larger investment?
I recall an interview with Williams in which he said that the Lakers contacted him as soon as they were allowed to and continued to pursue him more consistently than other teams. Going after Aldridge obviously didn’t keep them from doing that.
While your narrative seems to make sense at first glance I’m not sure if it’s possible to actually verify it. Adopting it may largely be a matter of personal preference.
BigCitySid says
– Pertaining to top free agents choosing the Lakers this summer, remember EVERY team will have $$$’s and the Lakers are further away from being a serious contender than many others. And we still have to count on our front office to do a great presentation job.
Vasheed says
A. Brown hit 2 of 4 three pointers and had the best +/- of the night. All he is asked to do is defend and shoot open shots. It might be nice to see how he develops over the remainder of the year.
NO is bad without Davis. So I’m happy for the win but this was a winnable game that they won.
The Dane says
I am not a big fan of the coach, he seems like a thing from a different day and age… but I do believe that it has merit that the young guys have to earn their minutes (instead of getting it handed with better vets on the bench). This is a much more important lesson than a few extra minutes here and there.
We have also seen a lot of rookie injuries over the last few seasons. I think it wise to protect the young players a little extra. They are not yet ready for heavy minutes throughout a marathon season.
…and I think they are coming along just fine. This is in my eyes a solid season for this team in the middle of a rebuild!
matt says
Great to see randle play lots of minutes and he mostly played terrible, but picked up toward the end thats what he needed
also does anyone else here notice that we are playing a zone defense, if I’m right how long has it been since we started to play zone defense, maybe i don’t know what I’m talking about.
By the way the first unit looked like crap
matt says
I’m guessing the strategy is, the first unit as a defensive minded unit wears down the other team, then toward the end of the game hit em with the high energy guys.
PurpleBlood says
Note to Dave Murphy:
As already mentined above: a confirmed Slava sighting!
For anyone who hasn´t checked out Dave´s blog, it´s great reading folks!
Searching For Slava
GO LAKERS
matt says
Bring back pau
Anonymous says
Matt – Pau Gasol will be 36 before the start of next season. I get that Hibbert is a fail and we’ll need a center but he’s not a building block. Plus with only a few years left in his career he’d want to go somewhere where there’s chance to win. I think Duncan retires and Pau signs with the Spurs.
PurpleBlood says
People bitching because the Lakers won a damn game, unbelievable
___
couldn´t agree more, thanks Fern
Gary says
Yes, the Lakers went hard after Melo and Aldridge. They were very public courtings and in Aldridge’s case very embarrassing. Don’t know how you could refute that.
Jim on multiple occasions said his strategy was to sign multiple elite free agents. Mitch on multiple occasions, these last few seasons, has supported that approach by saying the Lakers goal has been financial flexibility. I mean just look at the rosters and the player turnover. Again none of this is a surprise to anyone following the team or reading this blog.
Williams and Bass are hardly elite players and were signed after Aldridge and DA said no. Again, this was covered over the summer.
I’m not going to name the players that should have been pursued. The strident FO supporters on this board go bonkers if you suggest that management is not working off of some grand plan designed by Dr Buss and handed down to Jim and Jeanie before his passing.
Suffice it to say that there were key gettable RFAs in the summer of 2014 that should have been prioritized. Those names have been discussed here previously as well. Having them on board would have made the team more attractive this past summer.
Darius Soriano says
I’d like to know how any person can speak with any certainty that a RFA is “gettable”. GM’s are not stupid, much as many of us think they are. Any deal that a smart team wants to sign a RFA to is likely a deal that gets matched. Most GM’s understand a key simple truth: most any contract can be traded. If you have a young player (which nearly every RFA is) on a moderately good contract, you can trade him to another team.
This is not me “defending” the FO. I’m just making the point that so many fans seem to believe that constructing a winning roster is easy and, I’m pretty sure it is not. So many things have to fall into place and any mistake or false step can set a team back a fair amount. We are seeing this with the Lakers who went from a possible Chris Paul deal to actually being one of the betting favorites to win a title (preseason of the Nash/Dwight year) to now being one of the worst teams in the league 3 years later.
As they say on the internet #lifecomesatyoufast.
Anonymous says
Better hope the kids are all that because if we lose this pick free agency, this summer, is a real long shot and we have no real talent to trade. We’ll be rolling out essentially the same team. Next year shaping up to only be incrementally better.
How are we going to get more talent on this team? Are we really going to put all of our eggs in the summer of 2017 free agency basket?
Gary says
DS: I vividly remember a radio segment with the Kamenetzky Brothers during the summer of 2014. They spoke about how the Lakers were not pursuing Greg Monroe and that the FO felt that Melo was a better fit. As we know, Monroe ended up not getting any offers and took a qualifying contract with the Pistons and became an unrestricted free agent this past summer.
The Brothers said that Detroit was not inclined to match an aggressive offer. I thought the Lakers should have pursued him. My post was based on this recollection. If this is inaccurate then accept my apologies.
Darius Soriano says
Gary,
I figured you were talking about Monroe. And, yes, the thought at the time was that Detroit may not match a high offer sheet. However, there really is no way of knowing for sure and that is the risk with RFA. I have also read that while Detroit might not have matched, they also may have simply to avoid losing Monroe without compensation, instead looking to trade him after his deal was signed.
Also, the Lakers were clearly not the only team scared off by Monroe’s RFA status and the accompanying uncertainty of what Detroit might do. RFA is a slippery market to operate in with cap space being tied up and it putting a halt to any ability to sign other players using the money you’ve offered to the RFA.
Basically, my point is I see both sides of this. For example, I would have tried to sign Eric Bledsoe in RFA, but was lukewarm on Monroe at that time. So, I can understand wanting to chase a guy with that status, but I can also understand why avoiding those guys in general is a strategy a lot of teams take.
Mid-Wilshire says
As a business man (I’m in IT Sales), I’m a big believer in trends. So, I’ve noticed some very interesting trends of late for the Lakers. To begin with, here are the results of their last 8 games (beginning with the Boston game on December 30th):
112-104 Win vs. Boston
93-84 Win vs. Phil
97-87 Win vs. Phoenix
88-109 Loss vs. GS
115-118 Loss vs. Sac
113-117 Loss vs. OKC
74-86 Loss vs. Utah
95-91 Win vs. New Orleans
As you can see, the Lakers are 4-4 over the last 8 games. They were 5-27 at the beginning of that stretch; now they’re 9-31.
Secondly, they have scored 787 points during those 8 games for an average of 98.38 ppg. Their opponents during the same period have scored 786 points for an average of 98.25 ppg. So the Lakers have actually outscored their opponents by 1 point over the last 8 games.
Also, two of those losses were by less than 5 points (118-115 vs. Sacramento and 117-113 vs. OKC).
It can be argued that many of the opponents have been relatively weak (except for Boston, Golden State, and OKC). But the point remains, that the Lakers are playing better. Significantly better, I think. In fact, they could easily have been 5-3 over the last 8 games.
Will it continue? Impossible to say. But let us not be shocked if the Lakers play at a higher level over the 2nd half of the year.
They might even have a mini-win streak here and there and pull off an upset or two.
And in the process, the young players could develop even further (as Clarkson did last year) and start to figure out how to win some games. It could happen.
The 2nd half should be interesting.
Anonymous says
The strident FO supporters on this board go bonkers if you suggest that management is not working off of some grand plan designed by Dr Buss and handed down to Jim and Jeanie before his passing.
__
Made me chuckle.
Vasheed says
@BCS,
I think you hit the right point about free agents. The Lakers might have more money to give out that anyone next year but, many other teams are going to be able to offer a max deal to a player with a much stronger existing team.
The only thing all of this cap space that might be attractive is that the Lakers could offer 2 max contracts. So if a super friends duo wanted to play together then LA would be the place to go. However, super friend combos like Miami had years ago seem to be the exception and not the norm.
It is also difficult to develop a lot of young players at once. Mitch had talked about this before the draft last year speculating his willingness to possible trade the Lakers picks.
In this narrative I think it would be wise for the Lakers to package some of their young players with vets in order to bring in youngish vets who would fit in the teams long term plans while offering a bit more stability.
With Kobe retiring and the cap rising the Lakers will have a lot of cap room anyways and if they have a better team from acquiring talent via trade they are more likely to entice a free agent.
The only caveat is that by improving the team now the Lakers would be more likely to lose their draft pick. However, the draft is not a mortal lock to acquire bonafide talent as many fans might believe. It is inherently risky with likely development time or even worse a bust. I don’t think a strategy of focusing on losing to acquire said such pick is very wise. Also note the Lakers stand a good chance of losing their pick even if they are horrible all year. It should instead be a happy happenstance if should by misfortune occur to get the draft pick.
matt says
Can i get some insight, during free agency week can’t you have multiple offers out at the same time, couldn’t they have persue monroe, and melo, at the same time, and not finalized monroes offer if melo said yes, i mean this happened 2 years in a row, don’t the teams have any leverage here
bluehill says
Thanks for the data, Mid. My expectation at the beginning of the year was that the first half of the season was going to be tough because of Kobe’s return, new draft picks and FAs. My hope was that the coaches and team would start to figure it out by mid-season and that experience would be reflected in a better second half record than first half record with fewer blowouts to the top teams. This recent stretch of games is a positive sign that the Lakers are moving up the learning curve. IMO, they’ve been more fun to watch recently even in the losses than at the beginning of the year.
In some ways, the Lakers are like an expansion team given the composition of the team and that they haven’t played together. It’s frustrating as hell at times, more than I imagined, but looking at it from a broader perspective, the team seems to be making progress. Offense looks so much better. Kobe seems to have found good balance between scorer/facilitator, at a minimum he seems more aware and accepting of his limitations certainly in minutes he can play. Defense still needs a lot of work, but even there there are signs of improvement and maybe this is the next area of focus once the offense becomes more reflexive rather than deliberate.
matt says
My understanding is a restricted free agents team has 3 days to match the offer, but from what i can remember most action in free agency happens before you even sign a player, like reports of an agreed deal come out before teams are even allowed to sign players, so most leverage seems to be with the players.
Look what happen with deandre jordan, my question is can a team do what he did.
Clay Bertrand says
Matt,
The answer to your question is NO. You cannot extend multiple offers to RFAs unless you have the full cap space to cover EACH AND EVERY OFFER. The offers have a set period for acceptance that the league has established in the CBA. The team the RFA is on has 3 days to decide to match the offer. You can’t just extend the same offer to multiple players and withdraw 2 when 1 team fails to match.
This is the RUB with the RFAs and why as Darius says, they are a “slippery” proposition. Although the period for acceptance has been reduced in recent years, an offer to an RFA still has the effect of TYING UP the offering team’s available money to pursue players. Once an offer is extended, the offering team must WAIT OUT the process and during the process, that money represented by the offer is frozen and EARMARKED for the RFA. Because the RFAs original team ALWAYS takes the FULL 3 DAYS to decide to match or not, the offering team risks being handcuffed during the most active period of Free Agency the league has.
ALSO, those deals you speak of being done before RFA period are done during the moratorium and are NOT OFFICIAL if the player is CHANGING teams as that can only happen when Pen hits Paper after the moratorium. However, RFAs I believe can RESIGN with their own teams and certain other minor transactions are allowed during this down time. I think you are referring to most of the LEAKED stories of unofficial deals as there were MANY leaks this year. Thanks Twitter!!!
Vasheed says
@Matt,
First thing teams can make offers to Unrestricted Free Agents before they can Restricted Free Agents. I forget how long but it is I think a few weeks. So offers first go to the Unrestricted Free Agents by the time that is over the Restricted Free Agents open up. It is pretty much a false narrative some fans give that you can pursue RFA’s while everyone else is pursuing Unrestricted Free Agents and thereby get a bargain deal.
You are right about the matching period. As far as I know you cannot offer a contract while having another offer out that would exceed your cap. You would have to cancel the first offer.
matt says
So during this offseason because lakers have so much cap room, if they want to persue an “elite” player who is indecisive, or has options, they can at the same time persue others, because so much money is open
so to persue restricted free agents like drummond and/or derozan, wouldn’t stop them from pursuing durant at the same time.
So it wont be like the last 2 years.
KevTheBold says
Most know that I believe our core has the talent to compete, just requiring time, patience, encouragement and some holes filled in.
I truly believe that D’Angelo will be our cornerstone, and a worthy one.
However, Just playing devils advocate here:
Are Lakers beginning to rise while other teams are beginning to sink?
As a result will we lose our pick?
Seeing that Williams is looking to make a statement, Russell is finding his timing, Bass is starting to shine, and then we have the Momba, thus it could be that we win enough games to kiss the pick goodbye.
However there are other considerations:
Last night was a very close game with both Anthony Davis injured, one could believe that once Davis returns, their winning record will improve.
The 76ers since their shake up, I believe, are going to push for wins this season as well and most likely will most likely win more than expected.
I also expect the Suns to find their footing and begin to pull together, though who knows for sure?
The Nets, might end up on the lowest rung, though we never know what trades could occur to patch some holes before it’s too late.
What if this season takes the lottery into an over all higher win percentage than normal?
If so we still could end up with a pick to round out our roster.
KevTheBold says
Great posts from Fern, The Dane and JC !
matt says
It looked like the pelicans have the worst guards in the league
Clarkson was defending good, or they were just bad
KevTheBold says
Matt, I’m with JC, defence can be taught and it seems, is improving.
I agree with you, good to see Randle get more playing time and it paid off in the end.
I think it’s a good sign that he kept his fire burning through that long storm of doubts.
Lets hope this marks a turning point for him.
matt says
Kev….there are 4 very bad teams,
76ers, nets, suns, lakers
We thought our management was bad these other 3 are terrible
KevTheBold says
2nd that Matt, and it looks like the lakers and 76ers are out the tank scheme, so it may be that our pick depends upon what the suns and nets do.
Still, the odds aren’t bad.
david h says
darius: natives not restless; everyone playing nice.
let’s see what happens after tomorrow’s slugfest with warriors.
Go lakers
KevTheBold says
David, you mean, ‘slugged fest’ I presume?
david h says
kev: true; slugged every which way. like a good trainwreck; gotta watch.
Go lakers.
KevTheBold says
Lol agree David, it’s a must see.
Never know what might happen and in either case our kids will learn from the best,… again.
Speaking of Davis, did anyone else read this article?
Struggling Pelicans Need a Leader, and Anthony Davis Isn’t Stepping Up
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2607449-struggling-pelicans-need-a-leader-and-anthony-davis-isnt-stepping-up?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
Warren Wee Lim says
Anthony Davis is a perfect #2 guy, pretty much like Gasol was in his younger days. I hope he finds his Kobe…
LordMo says
Lol its close to March guys the kids games are peaking because they are use to the college season. Let’s see what happens when those legs get heavy as the pro season drags on.
LordMo says
@Warren
Davis is a #1 not a 2 bro. Voted as the number 1 player by GM’s in the league.
They were polled what player in the league out of all would they take to build their franchise… Davis was pretty much the consensus pick. Sounds like a 1 to me bro.
Anonymous says
“The strident FO supporters on this board go bonkers if you suggest that management is not working off of some grand plan designed by Dr Buss and handed down to Jim and Jeanie before his passing.”
__________
It’s funny that this is the reply to a post which points out that it’s hard to verify what exactly the impact of going after Aldridge was on the pursuit of other FAs. I think that sheds some light on the quality of the discussion. You know what you know what you know. And everybody who questions your “obvious conclusions” must be part of some deluded FO supporter cult.
KevTheBold says
Exactly ! Too many labels, being used as shields and weapons. They have power here however, so much so that even ds need tiptoe around.
imo dampens the atmosphere of the board and walls off open disscussion.
Renato Afonso says
My main beef with the FO is not the inability to sign top end FA’s or RFA’s. That is something that’s not in their control. If people want to assess their work properly, you would find three major mistakes which have been discussed ad nauseam:
– Besides Phil Jackson and Pat Riley (I understand they were here for a long time) they hired bad coaches. Not a single one of them outside those two was good. And coaching matters. That idea of hiring a good coach when your roster is on the cusp of contending is non-sense. You need a good coach even if you have the worst roster in the league. Think of a coach as a teacher…
– At one point in time, they seemed to be cheap in the technical department. Trainers, scouting, analytics, etc. If the Lakers revenue is at the top of the league, it makes sense to be the best or near the best in every department.
– The inability to retain useul players. Yes, our record might’ve been slightly better and we could’ve lost some draft picks but if you’re trying to sign big time free agents, maybe having a roster with solid rotational players helps. Was Ed Davis that expensive? How about Kent Bazemore? (These are examples, I’m sure you can find better ones)
david h says
in a perfect world, I’d trade anyone currently on the laker roster for Anthony Davis…..
not a bad way to start from scratch.
pro football anyone??
Go lakers.
KevTheBold says
But David, then we would be the Pelicans.
I much prefer being the Lakers.
david h says
p/s: was hoping my daughter, who lives in chino hills, ca would call or text me to say we’re filthy rich. it’s still am early……
Go lakers
Vasheed says
@Renato,
This is one of the clearer criticisms I’ve read about the F.O. in a while.
I believe a F.O. has to have a vision. Hire a coach who can implement a system for the said vision, and then supply him with players who fit that system.
I think the Lakers had a very clear message about bringing back showtime when they hired MDA. He implemented his high offense system. However, the F.O. did little to supply MDA with the players he needed. About the only addition they made that really fit MDA’s system was Kelly.
Scott is all about a slow moving half court Princeton yet the Lakers have been getting players more in-tune with a modern hi tempo offense. With the exception being Hibbert with the expectation he is there only for defense.
They also keep shedding useful players in order to maintain “financial flexibilty” to go after a big name free agents each year only to have scramble to fill their roster.
I think Mitch has done a tremendous job identifying talent and making the best of a bad situation. However, there has definitely been an issue from the vision phase down to what is on the court.
The Lakers suffer from an identity crisis.
Anonymous says
Thanks Kev.
Props to Renato–
Always a pleasure to read your posts.
Agree on all counts: coaching hires, not retaining good players, (Pau!) and being penny-wise and pound foolish on their analytics and training teams.
The one coaching hire I actually thought could work was Dantoni, after his wildly successful run in phoenix, to team up with Nash.
Even I was wrong about that one!
david h says
kev: again true, either way we’re still laying eggs this year…
aw, steak and eggs while watching tonite’s trainwreck.
Go lakers
KevTheBold says
Agree David, yet we are getting better. As for 2nites game, with the warriors coming off a loss and a back2back, it could get interesting.
By the way, purchased my 1st Powerball tickets last night. I live in California, but alas, NOT chino,..
Hope you get that call.
Todd says
Renato Afonso: I agree with many of your points. Here are my thoughts:
Free Agency: Well, Jim did state that signing two elite free agents was his strategy. Mitch did construct rosters with financial flexibility in mind. I agree it was not a strategy that offered the FO much control – so why pursue it? However, I think having a real vision for the team and being able to communicate that clearly to free agents would help in selling the Lakers. Reports are that our FO doesn’t do that well.
Coaching: Your comment that coaching matters is spot on. Good coaches can definitely impact the performance on the court and they don’t count against the salary cap. That’s one way to circumvent the financial rules of the game — hire a coach that can help you win. Which the Lakers did with Riley and PJ. But to be honest, its hard to win with any coach when you have rosters constantly built around financial flexibility — there has been very little continuity to build on.
MB and MDA were win now coaches, which is where the Lakers were at the time — it’s just that they were really bad fits. The BS hire was based on Kobe — but Kobe hasn’t been Kobe since the Achilles. The deference to Kobe during these past years is an organizational fault — what do you do with a superstar that can’t perform anymore yet your paying him and need to market him as if he was still that pre-Achilles player?
So absent a star player the Lakers should have aggressively been looking for a coach to be the transitional face of the franchise. Boston did this with Brad Stevens. Someone like Stevens could have helped initiate the ‘post Kobe Lakers’ process and offer a solid foundation until the kids develop or an elite is signed.
Organizational Strengths: Analytics, Training and Scouting. Well, the Lakers were very successful using old school methods. Jeanie and Jim learned from Old School masters. Plus you don’t need to invest heavily in these areas when you have Shaq and Kobe. That being said the Lakers did not fare well in last years’ ESPN’s league surveys that measured many of these areas. My understanding is that he organization is beginning to take them seriously and invest in them. The next coaching hire will be litmus test because the level in which these tools are utilized will be driven by the coach and his staff. Of course there is also the possibility of a new FO…
Regarding continuity: If you’re going to try and sign multiple max free agents then signing Ed Davis simply won’t work. His contract would take up needed cap space. (Plus is he a PF or a center – we’ve got a lot of PFs). He’s a double and the FO has been playing for home runs. Again, free agency offers little control yet its been our strategy for three years running.
BigCitySid says
* No surprise to anyone who realizes Lakers current ownership is not the brightest crayon in the box:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kobe-bryants-retirement-tour-turning-161651337.html
Baylor Fan says
Those are great points Renato. In response to your last question, the Lakers are suffering from “the Pat Riley effect”. Riley was able to clear the books and bring in the two best FA’s in a decade to pair with an all-star. For the Lakers to mimic that success, they were unable to offer any long term deals and any two year deals had to be for minimum wage. Of course there also had to be franchise altering FA’s available too. The bottom line is that role players could get better deals elsewhere. That added to the frustration of watching the past few years since you knew ahead of time that if the Lakers did find any gems, they would not be able to keep them.
Fulofunk says
J C, I totally agree about teaching defense. This is where we need to start to rebuild. The young core we have right now can compete IF they can be taught to defend.
The Dane, it is good to hear another perspective on our coaching situation. I have been for seeing BS gone, but maybe there is something redeemable here. If he can learn to communicate the right way with these kids ( I don’t know, maybe he’s learning as we speak) and focus on teaching defense…….maybe he stays….I’m starting to believe he might.
Dave Murphy, I’ve checked Searching for Slava, are you still posting?
Mid, interesting numbers over the last 8 games, our guys have started to play better for longer periods of time, but there were a few games in those 8 where the other guys just played really bad and missed a lot of open shots. Still, this last 8 game stretch has felt pretty good over all as our fellas seem to be gellin’ a bit better, a definite upward trend.
Thanks Clay for the RFA info and Vasheed for some good perspective.
And thank you DS for stepping in to get us all back on track. This particular thread has been the most insightful for me, overall, thus far. You guys are a goldmine.
Lastly, anyone care to share what they remember of our Laker off season ups and downs over the years in between West/Wilt, Magic/Kareem, Kobe/Shaquille, Kobe/Pau? Have always been a Laker, but I vaguely remember JW’s & Wilt’s playing days, then woke up during the college championship btwn Magic & Bird. Once we got Magic I was old enough to be loyal for good, though never smart enough to track the business side of players and contracts. Im getting educated here and I appreciate it. I will always remain hopeful of our return to winning, but just wonder if we are repeating our past history being in between mountain tops at the moment?
Dr Mike says
I see Byron as the only indefensible coach hiring- clearly chosen to appease Laker traditionalist during a down period. Brown is a Poppavich protege and defense first coach who is supposedly respected for his knowledge of the game. D’Antoni revolutionized modern basketball. You could argue the roster didn’t fit the coaching style but the Lakers hired solid people.
rr says
but just wonder if we are repeating our past history being in between mountain tops at the moment?
—
No. The Lakers have never been in this position before. They came to LA with Baylor, and then got West a couple of years later. There was a year between when West left and Kareem came, and then five years between Magic was forced into retirement and Shaq came. But even the worst of those teams was better than the team is now. There were three years between Shaq leaving and Pau’s arrival, but the team was already good when the Pau trade went down.
As I said at the time, the Lakers pretty much stopped being the Lakers when Stern vetoed the Chris Paul trade. Historically, the Lakers have been anchored by inside/outside star combos:
Baylor/West
West/Chamberlain
Magic/Kareem
Shaq/Kobe
Kobe/Pau
The FO’s plan of course was that the next chapter in the story would be Paul/Howard.
Howard has declined a lot and is widely disliked, and it has become fashionable to bash Paul because of the Clippers’ playoff losses. But Paul remains an outstanding player, will be in the HoF someday, and is the kind of guy other guys want to play with. The Lakers back-up plan (Nash) as we all know failed miserably, and the draft pick that is in limbo right now was traded for Nash. The Lakers have only barely started to recover from the Veto and the fallout thereof, and will need to be smart and catch some big breaks (like winning the lottery and getting Ben Simmons) to get back in contention any time soon.
KevTheBold says
@ Folofunk January 14, 2016 at 11:24 am
but just wonder if we are repeating our past history being in between mountain tops at the moment?
—
@rr
“No. The Lakers have never been in this position before. They came to LA with Baylor, and then got West a couple of years later. There was a year between when West left and Kareem came,”
———
I really don’t understand why some people insist on keeping this forum in pessimistic mode.
Folofunk, the Lakers went through droughts from 1954 to 1972 – from 1973 to 1980 and from 1989 to 2000.
One can’t simply select the times we obtain a so called franchise player to mark the end dry periods, it’s doesn’t work that way.
For example, we obtained Kareem in 1975, but didn’t win a championship with him until 1980.
So in answer to your question, we aren’t going through anything new, despite all the rumblings of thunder and rain, which imo is in majority, people banging on pots and pans and squirting water.
A Horse With No Name says
BCS @ 9:18am
Sorry I clicked on your link. Simpleton article–nothing new for the informed audience here.
rr says
Kev,
I meant the LA Lakers, but if you want to give us some info on the post-Mikan Minneapolis teams, I am all ears.
As to the rest:
From 1962 to 1974, the Lakers always had at least two of West, Baylor and Chamberlain on the team. They had one losing season, and made it to the Finals nine times, winning of course, once. The league was obviously much smaller then, but that time was vastly different than today.
The 1974-75 team went 30-52, then Kareem arrived, and the Lakers won 40, 53, 45 and 47 games, then drafted Magic.
Between Magic and Shaq were the Lakeshow Teams, which were a tribute to Jerry West. Those teams won 43, 39, 33, 48, and 53 games, then Shaq came. The Kobe teams between Shaq and Pau won 34, 45, and 42 games. Mike Brown’s team, which no one really seemed to enjoy, went 41-25 and won a playoff series, and D’Antoni’s first team, which was a drag for almost everyone who cared about it, won 45 games.
So, the Lakers have almost always been competitive and/or have almost always been anchored by a star, even when they were not winning titles. For the team to be where it is now—having won 27 and 21 games the last two years, and being on pace to win 18 this year, with no one on the roster in his prime who is good or great with the draft pick in limbo—is new territory for everybody in the fanbase under the age of 70 who was not rooting for the post-Mikan teams in Minneapolis during the Eisenhower years.
KevTheBold says
@rr, If the word: competitive’ is your stand, take it. It’s championships however which count and that everyone remembers. I will bet you that you had to look up the stats for the losing years.
At least you admitted that the Chamberlain years were a different time, and I would go further to saying that it was not the NBA.
Just as we can point those peach basket tossing days to trump the Celtics early wins, we should accept that those years for the Lakers were like pitting street-ball players from the inner cities, against small town farmers or suburban players.
Keeping in LA however, there was a 7 year gap between championships from the Chamberlain years to the Kareem/Magic era, and 11 years of drought from Kareem/Magic to the Kobe/Shaq era.
Yes I admit that we are not competitive yet, however there are mitigating circumstances which cannot be dismissed.
1. Our owner passed away.
2. The NBA Snatched CP3 from us.
3. We lost Kobe to devastating injury, twice.
The rest is simply looking back with 20/20 vision.
We will get through this, as we always have.
rr says
I will bet you that you had to look up the stats for the losing years.
—
I used Basketball Reference to get the facts right, but I could have made the point without doing that. But yeah, one does have to look up the losing years–because the Lakers have had so few of them, which was the point. The Lakers have never been this far down, this far away from contention, and this lacking in star power the entire time the franchise has been in LA. Doesn’t mean that they won’t pull out of it, but the facts are the facts.
Fulofunk says
Thanks guys. This has been very helpful for me. I wondered if we have ever been where we are now….we haven’t, but it doesn’t mean we are going to stay where we are for very long. I remain hopeful, very hopeful, but realize we are living with a different NBA now and superstars are hard to come by. We have a great history, but there are no ‘givens’ in our Laker future, but I’m always hopeful and will always stay tuned in.