The Lakers lost their 62nd game of the season on Wednesday, making them the worst team in the history of the franchise. What started with a 57 loss campaign in Mike D’Antoni’s final season, has worsened to 61 and now 62 losses in Byron Scott’s first two years as the head man. Remember when so many people thought “it can’t get any worse” after D’Antoni resigned? Those people were wrong.
Boy, were they wrong.
The perceptions of a season are always shaped through the prism of expectations. Championship contenders often deal with an overreaction to any small hiccup which is viewed as potentially disrupting a run to a ring. Lower tiered teams are looked at from the standpoint of hope and marginal improvement. The Lakers, especially this year, were one of those teams. No reasonable fan thought a playoff team would emerge out of the ashes of a 61 loss season. But anywhere between 8-12 win improvement seemed possible, if not likely.
I was one of those people. In a pre-season podcast I mentioned 35 wins as a possibility if everything went right. If things did not go that well, I thought 27 – 29 wins was reasonable. The Vegas over/under of 29.5 wins backed this up. As it stands the Lakers have 16 wins with 4 games left to play. They will not get to 20 wins. They may not win another game at all.
The reasons for my optimism (if you can call 29 win projections optimism) was what looked to be a better team than the one the Lakers put on the floor last year — especially when put into the context of the injuries that team suffered.
I saw Roy Hibbert as a viable defensive presence with some solid (though plodding) offensive skill. Lou Williams would be a nice scorer off the bench. Brandon Bass would be a veteran PF option who would work hard, mentor the young guys, finish inside, and hit some mid-range jumpers.
And then there were the young players. Clarkson was coming off a strong close to his rookie season. Julius Randle missed last year, but would come back with a better understanding of the NBA game and all that physical ability after a summer of rehab. D’Angelo Russell was the 2nd overall pick and, though experiencing growing pains, would show why he was drafted so high.
Those ideals never really fully materialized, though. The young guys have shown how steep a learning curve they are on. The veterans offered some positives, but whether it was Hibbert’s lack of mobility and explosiveness, Lou’s high-ish usage rate and focus on little besides scoring, or Bass being shoehorned into the backup C role (where he did well, all things considered) things have not lined up as hoped.
And then, of course, there has been Byron Scott’s shortcomings on full display. Be it his handling of the young players through heavy media critiques and shuffled roles, his approach to rotations and lineup changes every 20 or so games, the lack of offensive and defensive adjustments, or (ultimately) just not getting through to his team enough to foster the needed execution, he has not been any better than he was in the 61 loss season. There’s an argument he’s actually been worse, considering how he needed to adjust his approach from a mostly veteran team to one filled with so many young players this year.
Lastly, we cannot ignore the Kobe retirement tour and how that has affected the dynamics of the season. While it was always likely this would be his last year, the in-season announcement (when it was strongly implied no such thing would occur) and the resulting transformation of road games into farewell celebrations has blurred the lines of what constituted success. Add to this Kobe’s diminishing value as a contributor to actual wins combined with a usage rate typically associated with a player who produces at a high level and it is just not a very good mix.
So, this season had all the ingredients. A roster of young players whose growing pains impact the ability to win. A group of veterans not good enough to override the young players’ limitations. A coach who leaned heavily on those veterans while, whether intentionally or not, provided a shroud of negativity around the play of his young core. An aged legend who inspired too much deference while not being able to produce at a level which justified it.
When it is all added up, we have the worst team the Lakers have ever put on the floor. In hindsight, maybe we all should have seen this coming. Surely some people did. I, however, hoped for better. Those hopes were misplaced. I know that now. Sadly, we all do.
Anonymous says
On a posive note. Have we guaranteed ourselves the 2nd worst record?
Even if we won the remaining 4 games and (not going to happen I know), would we still get the edge over Phoenix since they won the season series over us (Im assuming Phoenix will lose out as well).
Hale says
As always, Frank Hamblen is the answer. For Byron to deride another coach and campaign for his job while coming up so heinously short belongs in Lakers lore. This season should have been the Bickerstaff farewell tour. If Frank is still traumatized by his 2004-5 stint, I would like to see someone who can recognize talent and align them properly rather than be set in their iron-fortified system. Frank could have lost all those games for far less than Byron and he wouldn’t have blamed any players.
This season destroyed my television and the giggling Kobe tour helped keep me from replacing it. Mr. Bryant, so long, thanks for the championships. I don’t blame him for taking what was offered. This team chose put a circus tent over the hardwood all year. For me, that was the most mind-numbing decision of the last several years. Wizard: “Pay no attention to garbage on the court.” Pockets get ripped out of pants. Sports entertainment instead of entertainment through sports.
Hibbert: I thought his contract year status would at least give him greater incentive to leave it all on the floor. I’m only looking at box scores this year and if they tell the story, he’s one step above Sacre.
Williams: I didn’t feel like he brought so much more to the table over Young to where he would be anything but a contract flip. Would have preferred giving Frazier a chance but that’s my bias anyway. Alas, all the geezers AGAIN are still on the team at the finish line.
Upshaw: our own little Whiteside. FO took the right path on that one.
The Youth Movement: Show me what their offseason work bring. Hopefully Anthony Brown can heal in time to put Summer to use and bring more confidence. I’m still liking Randle even without his wingspan increasing.
Anonymous says
We all had high hopes for the team, but again seeing all the pieces that did not fit were too much for some to overlook. Hopefully the Lakers live and learn and can move out of this cycle of depravity. A top 3 pick wouldn’t hurt either.
Anonymous says
Watch out Darius, the Sunshine Pumpers will start to go after you too.
KevTheBold says
Nah, we only go after the nearsighted maniac depressed doom and gloomers.
Darius is the only Realist on this board.
lakerade says
Keeping the pick will justify the losses somewhat. From there it becomes about what those picks can do. Randle and Russell have shown glimpses, will they bring more consistency going forward, and how much of it? With potentially three lottery picks and plenty of cap space, there won’t really be a need to tank anymore. However, if they lose this year’s pick, all bets are off, regardless of Jim’s self-imposed timeline.
R says
The Lakers need to leverage whatever advantages they can muster to bring in some talent and upgrade the way they do business. Does the management/ownership have the ability/vision to do this? Stay tuned if you care and it will all be revealed in due time.
Anon#1 says
However, if they lose this year’s pick, all bets are off, regardless of Jim’s self-imposed timeline.
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Agreed.
As was mentioned yesterday, losing the pick virtually guarantees next year will look much like this one. We won’t be good so the focus will easily shift to ensuring we get the best pick possible (in 2017) by losing more games. Well, at least we’ll get to keep that pick.
I’d much rather keep the pick this year and then really begin to focus on moving this thing forward. I know we’ll likely lose a lot next season but I’d rather lose while trying to win as opposed to this year when we simply just lost.
KevTheBold says
I disagree.
Without the ball chucking vets (yes Kobe included), hillbilly hibbert, the farewell tour, Scott replaced,.. and with some sage additions, we have a chance to be somewhat better.
Especially with our core running the team with more time to gel and learn.
Martin says
I think we tentatively owe the 2017 pick to Orlando for the Dwight trade, don’t we?
KevTheBold says
Scott mans up.
http://www.lakersnation.com/byron-scott-admits-he-could-have-done-better-with-young-players/2016/04/07/
BigCitySid says
– Hate to say I’m not surprised. Current owners just appear to be so out of touch with what it takes to put together a winner on the floor. I will give them credit for being able to line their own pockets with TV $$’s. The last three years are among the worst five in the history of the franchise…let that sink in for a moment. And yes, there’s enough blame to go around to everyone associated with the franchise during this dark period in Laker history.
An incredible mark of this proud franchise has been it’s ability to REBUILD after winning titles. REBUILTING after Laker legends have retired. Jack Kent Cook & Dr Buss were one step ahead of their competitors. Currently ownership appears to be 3 or 4 steps behind.
Here’s HOPING the “Bust” Kids allow their basketball people to do what is neeeded for our Lakers to become relevant again.
– Not expecting miracles next season, however no way can they post another sub 30 win season in 2016-17. Three years is enough.
-Let’s go Lakers. The road to #17 finally starts in seven days.
dxmanners says
With this being the worst team in Laker history, can’t we get a peek at Upshaw to finish the year?
Can’t be any worse than Hibbert, nothing against the guy, but his time is up.
Martin says
Upshaw is gone off of our D League team. He was trash in the D League. Look at his numbers. Seems like he has talent but no drive, sort of like Bynum.
R says
Wow how impressive; BS – being very critical of himself – admits he could have done better with the young guns. What a relief! Gee – they better give him another year, then.
And no no a thousand times no to Upshaw. As related elsewhere, the FO got that one right.
KevTheBold says
The Lakers game plan:
http://national.suntimes.com/nba/7/72/2875708/dangelo-russell-on-lakers-game-plan-give-kobe-the-ball
Gary says
Without the ball chucking vets (yes Kobe included), hillbilly hibbert, the farewell tour, Scott replaced,.. and with some sage additions, we have a chance to be somewhat better.
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Here we go again…
Doesn’t ‘somewhat better’ and ‘virtually the same’ get you to the same spot?
Kev, I’m starting to really dislike your efforts to overtake this forum. You seem to disagree with folks just for the sake of disagreeing.
KevTheBold says
Gary, was.I speaking to you ?
As for my comment, the word ‘better’ fyi equates to progress: which is all we should expect.
With regards to my ‘over taking’,.. sounds like a personal problem.
Feel free to ignore my posts, if that will alleviate your anxiety.
Robert says
Kev: “we have a chance to be somewhat better.” I will go out on a limb with you and make the same “Bold” prediction that we will win more games next year than we did this year. Does that make us optimists? “depressed doom and gloomers” You mean the people who have been correct over the past few years? This is a board where we should comment based on what we think, not just blindly say that all is well, because we are Laker fans.
Byron: It is time for him to go, but it is time for the FO to go as well. Firing Byron in 16 and Jim in 17 makes no sense.
Clay: FYI Micky Arison is not the Miami GM – Riles runs the show. Jim is the only owner who is also the top guy in the GM office. Cuban does not do it either. Jim is the Jerry Jones of basketball
Laker Moves in Summer of 15: So I guess between Hibbert, Lou, et al, there were really no success stories – true? So- how many years in the row is this? Honestly – what was the last FA move that worked?
KevTheBold says
Robert, see my reply to Gary above for clarification.
As to the last 3 years.
I had no hand in those predictions.
Next season, our rebuild begins.
rr says
Team:I thought that they would probably be the worst team in the conference, and that was the conventional wisdom. Scott has been exactly the guy that I thought he would be and has been exactly the guy whom they hired. I thought the team would be a little better than it has been and win in the low-mid 20s–mostly because I didn’t realize how done Hibbert is.
Young guys/looking ahead: Even if the Lakers keep the pick and get Simmons or Ingram, and even if they get Whiteside and another FA, that is probably still not a .500 team. The Lakers will need to be 20 games better just to get to the mid-30s in wins, and improving by that many without adding a Top-5 Player is tough to do. People are counting a lot on the belief that Scott is a huge detriment in pretty much every way a coach can be. We will see.
Ryan P says
I assume a good coach, two impact free agents, growth from our core and Simmons/Ingram/bender will get us to 35 wins.
R: getting Lin with their number 1 pick was a great move by the FO.
Anonymous says
Jim should really step down as Head of Basketball Operations. The Lakers are performing several orders of magnitude below ‘struggling’. Three straight years of epic franchise futility is enough.
If the Lakers were on knocking on the door for a playoff spot and had a young coach with some gravitas you could say that Jim is getting close and needs more time. But, he’s not close and the Lakers aren’t either. Raking up loses for another year or two and collecting lottery picks is not really a rebuilding strategy.
I mean seriously, in the real world he would have been asked to leave a long time ago. Time to be ‘just’ an owner, Jim.
LT Mitchell says
I’ve always believed that the gap between a good team and a bad team is not as wide as most people seem to think. The difference can be just one elite player, or a few solid complimentary pieces, or the improvement of a couple young players.
Portland, for example, was not supposed to be any good this year, but they surprised everyone by making the no. 6 seed, mostly on the shoulders of Lillard and McCollum. These two studs were drafted by Portland. They also have a good young coach and a GM who acquired some nice complimentary pieces (Aminu, Davis, Harkless, Henderson) at bargain rates. I think they are one elite free agent away from contending.
I think this is a formula the Lakers can follow. Hopefully, DAR, Randle, and this year’s top 3 pick (fingers crossed), can develop as quickly as Lillard and McCollum have. What the Lakers don’t have is a smart coach and a smart front office. If that changes this summer, the path back to the playoffs might be sooner rather than later.
KevTheBold says
Excellent post LT, agree totally.
Robert says
Ryan: I will agree that was a “trade” (not a FA) that was decent. I say decent, because if you take a large salary dump, you get compensation. Of course Roy Hibbert was a rare deal where we took a huge dump and gave up a pick as well (still have not understood that one). When you are really bad you can acquire picks by taking salary dumps and you can get yourself into the lottery and draft players. It is hard not to do that, but we have done less than our share, because we have traded away our picks and not done deals where we have stockpiled picks.
Kev: So if the rebuild starts next year, then what have we be doing for the past 3 years (especially the past 2)? And why?
KevTheBold says
Robert, you know the reason, but your admiration for Kobe may keep you from admitting it.
Kobe is as powerful as a black hole, nothing, not even light can escape his gravity.
With him gone all the planets and suns will be free to form new orbits.
rr says
So if the rebuild starts next year, then what have we be doing for the past 3 years (especially the past 2)?
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You didn’t ask me, but like I have said IMO the Lakers have been trying to be Dallas: stay competitive around an aged franchise legend while maintaining enough cap space to chase a max FA. For a variety of obvious reasons, it didn’t work. It is possible that the Lakers will end up better off this way, of course. But I don’t think this is how the FO drew it up.
mud says
is there really a problem?
worst team ever. so?
gonna stop cheering? go ahead.
personally, i don’t see that there was any path towards a better team at this time once Nash went down, Dwight showed himself to be less than a gamer, and Kobe’s achilles tendon tore. speculate all you want, a few games better(or worse) wouldn’t make anything nicer.
it’s just a basketball team.
bluehill says
I didn’t have high hopes coming into the season mostly because of the conflicting agendas between trying to stay competitive for Kobe and developing the young guys. For me a “successful” season would have been a better second half record than first half record. With 4 games left, that looks unlikely, so even with this low bar, the season has been a failure. While the young guys have shown promise, I was hoping for more consistency at the end of the season.
Next year will be the first where the FO won’t have to worry about how to accommodate Kobe. I think that relieves some constraints on Mitch. I don’t think the FO would have done the Hibbert deal if Kobe weren’t on the team. Not Kobe’s fault at all, but just an example of how the FO wasn’t looking at full rebuild last offseason.
I’m all for the process, but you need a plan. The Lakers plan has apparently been to try to build around Kobe for one last title run. That’s no longer possible so the FO will need a new plan. I hope they take a practical look at where the team is and take a long term perspective (i.e. 3 to 5 years). We’re not going from worst to first in one season.
rr says
Phoenix beat Houston in Houston.
TC says
haven’t posted for a long time but have been visiting this site since it started…I think if the Lakers keep to their course they should get better. That course includes getting rid of B. Scott, Roy Hibbert, and the end of the Kobe tour. I really think Byron should have said eff the fans and allowed the kids to develop more. Yes fans want to see Kobe but can you see Popovich allowing Kobe to play so badly on his farewell tour? B. Scott has been a complete Kobe puppet. Kobe is obviously a legend but it’s ridiculous when Kobe is shooting so badly and has fallen off so much that he’s allowed to play like he’s still 27. Byron’s rotations are so arbitrary and inflexible that I think a mummy could have altered them better. I hope we get Brian Shaw to coach the Lakers. I think a top 3 draft pick plus a Whiteside and we’ll be back in the saddle soon.
rr says
PHX and BKN both have 21 wins, and the Lakers have 62 losses. So second-worst record is locked.
dxmanners says
I made a comment about Upshaw the other day, didn’t realize he had been cut. My bad, they did that pretty quietly. He’s done, hope he gets his stuff together…
Anonymous says
Top 3 pick + Barnes + Whiteside + new coach.
Baylor Fan says
From Ken Berger (CBS Sports) in 2012:
“The Lakers’ front office is an uncommunicative, rudderless fiasco, and the unrest and paranoia that have been festering for years threaten to derail the team’s plans to ride Bryant to his sixth NBA title while they still can. And much of it can be traced to the growing influence of executive vice president Jim Buss, the owner’s bon vivant son, who has helped transform a great franchise into a steaming pool of nepotism and nincompoops.”
How is the FO different four years later?
Kbj says
Hahaha. Wait till Kobe is gone folks. If you guys think the team will benefit tremendously from his departure, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
Altemawa says
hmmm, for me, the more losses we have, the more it benefits us in the draft.
this was expected when we did not attract big time players during the past free agencies…
and I can say that its a blessing(in disguise) that we lost more games under Scott, he’s actually helping us in this secret tanking season.
i agree that we’re not miles away from contending. some teams surprised us this season, rockets and pelicans are out, when they were projected to improve before the season…
we’re now at rebuilding process. we just need to have 1 STAR signing this coming FA.
still, my only regret is that Kobe’s last season will end like this. i’m hoping he’ll drop 50+ on his last game vs Jazz… 🙂
Anonymous says
I will agree that was a “trade” (not a FA) that was decent. I say decent, because if you take a large salary dump, you get compensation. Of course Roy Hibbert was a rare deal where we took a huge dump and gave up a pick as well (still have not understood that one). When you are really bad you can acquire picks by taking salary dumps and you can get yourself into the lottery and draft players. It is hard not to do that, but we have done less than our share, because we have traded away our picks and not done deals where we have stockpiled picks.
_____
Houston had a strong incentive to get rid of Lin because they wanted to clear cap room to make an offer to Bosh. It didn’t work out for them, but we managed to profit from it. Indiana was in a totally different situation.
As for stockpiling picks, we already have a lot of rookies and 2nd-year players on the roster. There’s a natural limit to that. Additional picks can be viewed as assets, of course, but so can expiring contracts.
Fern says
LOL at “having a peek at Upshaw at the end of the year” LOL. I would think the Lakers had a pretty good “peek” and found that he’s a bum and an idiot one at that. Good luck flipping burgers. I thought without a doubt the Lakers would win 25-30 games, 35 wins would’ve been a fantastic achievement. But it was not to be. There are myriad of reasons for this disaster and they been discussed ad nauseum. People talk about the pick like is going to turn the Lakers around overnight, sorry, is going to take more that Brandon Ingram, Ben Simmons or Dragan Bender to fix this team. We need quality free agents not superstars but quality ones to put around the kids. Even if we lose the pick the team can be improved substantially in the summer. Im sick and tired about lottery and picks. This has been a heartbreaking season. The FO needs to do everything in their power to ensure this wont happen again. This is unacceptable…
ryan craig says
to me this was the plan all along once dwight left and kobe signed his contract. we were stuck with no one good coming here to play with an old broken down kobe, and no real assets, are only option was to tank and get rental players. overypaying b list guys to long term contracts would have been terrible for us and thank god we didnt get melo,but now we are in the position we were aiming for this summer, we will have some promising young players on first contracts and a ton of cap space. now its time to see what they can do, and i honestly have full confidence in mitch but jim needs to go away and let him do his job. i really hope mitch kupchak doesnt take the fall for this he doesnt deserve it and we wont find someone better. he has an amazing track record of acquiring talent and drafting well imo ( getting pau, getting cp3 until the veto, getting dwight( saved us from giving bynum max thank god!), bynum/randle in late lottery, clarkson 2nd round, etc…), and no one of consequence was coming to the lakers the last couple years no matter who the gm was.this year, this year has been terrible but hey we had to get through this to reach this point this summer, and hopefully we have hit rock bottom and we can be back on the uptick. just my 2 cents as a diehard lakers fan,
Vasheed says
Besides shoehorning Bass at Center, Kelly has been shoehorned at SF for 2 years with far less stellar results. Although I don’t blame Scott for that. What do you do when you are handed a roster with 5 Power Forwards?
As I understand Nick Young has been deactivated so I believe they can sign someone to a 10 day contract.
harold says
Kobe’s contract is making more sense as this season comes to a close. He definitely delivered from the perspective of the owners, shifting the focus (as much as you could) from an atrocious season to a ticket-selling performance.
All in all, I think of this season as justifiable. In an ideal world, this would have been a season geared totally towards building up the core, letting them experiment and fail while building their confidence, but Scott just was too intent on saving his face/job at the expense of that…
Anonymous says
rr,
Completely agree on comparison to Dallas. So many mistakes, some in my opinion not entirely the fault of the FO. The coaching hires, though, I have not understood at all, going back to Brown.
If anyone wants to see a fan base truly enflamed, read comments at Blog-a-Bull. Every time I go there, my hair starts to stand on end…
I truly appreciate the discourse on this site.
J C says
Kobe’s departure won’t change the team’s fortunes overnight. But it will change them, obviously. Eventually, the team must improve from where it is today. No one thought it could get this bad.
If Ken Berger’s assessment of Jim Buss was accurate 4 years ago, it sheds light on the current state of affairs. But how does he know the inner workings of the team?
I assume Kupchak still has his head attached to his shoulders. If ownership was a complete farce, wouldn’t he have left? At one point, I believe he was highly regarded around the league and could have found employment somewhere.
Anonymous says
I´d have to agree with rr as well in what has seemed to be an apparent Mavs-like approach.
Nice post bluehill
rr says
I truly appreciate the discourse on this site.
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Yes, collectively, the people on this site are mostly well-behaved and usually pretty reasonable as internet communities go.
R says
The Lakers remind me of the Reggie Jackson/Billy Martin/George Steinbrenner Yankees – without the winning!
mud says
Upshaw?
10 day contract?
the young players didn’t get enough work and schooling this year?
hmmmmm……
Vasheed says
Upshaw got kicked off the d-league team presumably for substance issues. Not happening.
Clay Bertrand says
Robert,
“Clay: FYI Micky Arison is not the Miami GM – Riles runs the show. Jim is the only owner who is also the top guy in the GM office. Cuban does not do it either. Jim is the Jerry Jones of basketball”
___________
Thanks Robert but no need for clarification on the Heat’s FO. My comment was related to a discussion regarding a comment BCS made regarding Ballmer being the “superior owner”. He implied that Ballmer’s education and employment history made him superior to an owner who just inherited a team. It was a much larger conversation in other words.
Darius Soriano says
Thinking of asking a commenter to go away from this site. The value add has long been no longer there and the want to cherry pick from others comments to reply and steer the conversation in a single direction is beyond tiring. Rather than asking, I’d prefer this person just find another place to talk Lakers basketball. There are many other places to do this. But, if I must ask — or, just act — I will. But everyone sort of figures out when it’s there time to go. Like Kobe, now is yours. You know who you are.
Darius Soriano says
To clarify, this person hasn’t broken any site rules or anything. But this person makes my site experience worse. And I run this site. So, I figure that means something.
Vasheed says
Come to think of it, I cannot remember any basketball player having a retirement tour like Kobe. The closest thing I can think of that resembles this is Derek Jeter’s final season with the Yankees. Sad that it is a losing season but, it has been good to see Kobe relatively healthy finishing his career.
Clay Bertrand says
Darius, let me know if I have run afoul and I’ll cease posting here. No hard feelings bro.
Dom says
My take is the year isnt wasted if we keep the top 3 pick. After the disastrous Nash deal the only way to recoup anything was to try to keep the draft picks and rebuild. BScott is the perfect foil to coach a tank. The FO masked tanking around Kobe’s farewell tour. This roster was not built to compete for a tile or even a playoff spot. You had redundancy with Williams, DAR, NY, and Clarkson what was the point of signing him. Hibbert was a stiff with the Pacers in the Eastern Conference was he sudden goinjg to turn into a gazelle in the athletic west? This roster stunk from the start. Now that being said If we get Ingram or Simmons, to go along with DAR, Clarkson and Randle we have a good nucleus. Now if they retain BScott expect the team to tank again next year because the pick is once again top 3 protected. After that the pick is unprotected but with 5 high caliber draft picks you have your future in hand.
But the bigger issue is JimB. He has got to go. He has alienated all of the Laker greats who arent dependent on the organization for a pay check. Get rid of him and have Shaq, Magicm Kareem, Kobe selling not just Laker nation but Laker life. Let FA”s get a glimpse of a healthy Laker organization and all the perks that come when you win and you will see FA’s asking to come to the Lakers. A decision needs to be made about Mitch as well. Is he burnt out or is he a victim of Jim’s meddling. I suspect its the latter. Firing Jim then getting the coach you are going to ride and die with are the priorities moving forward.
The league is changing, we need a young innovative thinker, like Clifford or a Stevens, that understands the Laker culture of excellence but sees the changing face of the NBA. I dont see Thibs as the answer. Luke said he was overwhelmed with the temp HC position with the Dubs when he started. I dont see a college coach unless its Calipari coming in and being effective. My wish list are Luke and Cal. Cal primarily because of the influx of Kentucky players who love him.
Anyway the season sucked, and i expect the same next year. BScott for COY for masking an obvious tank job for 5 mill.
Chris J says
To me, one of the front office’s biggest shortcomings is the ongoing fixation with a ” big name” coach or player. I realize it’s L.A. and people love their stars, but they overlook that fact that winning turns players and coaches into big names or stars. Who was Derek Fisher before he won in L.A.? Who was Pat Riley beyond an ex-bench guy now doing radio? We still revere guys like A.C. Green or Michael Cooper, neither of whom rolled into town with a limo and a press conference.
With the exception of Mike Brown, the past few coaching hires/searches have fixated on the recognizable — Phil, D’ Antoni, even Byron is a “name” among Lakers fans. I’d be happy with someone who’s not flashy or overly recognizable, but with a work ethic, solid plan and ability to command respect. Miami, Atlanta, Indiana and Portland are all better off than the Lakers are now, and I wouldn’t consider any of their head coaches guys who sell tickets by name alone. Yet they win, and suddenly the whole country talks about “Spo” or the flow of Budenholzer’s system.
The same applies for players — they’ve gone for the home run with All-Star names like Carmelo or Aldridge, and the same applies for Howard and even Nash earlier on. Why not focus on adding the right pieces to fit around what is there, rather than going into a season with five power forwards, like someone noted before? The glitz and fame will come naturally if you can win in L.A. — hell, even DeAndre Jordan gets commercials now. I wish there was more focus on basketball and not just whose face will look better on a billboard or Sportscenter snippet.
Anonymous says
I have long been what rr would call a “Front Office Apologist”. Without discussing the merits of that argument, I will say that I know believe the best path forward for this franchise is for Jim, Jeannie (and I guess Joey and the other Buss kid) to all resign their posts in the organization and pick qualified professionals to run this show. Jim, Jeannie and Johnny can be the “owner” as trustees of the Buss Trust, but lets pick some qualified folks to take the reigns here. Firing Jim alone will not fix anything so long as Jeannie feels anger over her husband-to-be not being picked to run the franchise and she will always try to steer the ship back to Phil’s direction. That is the definition of conflict of interest and no different than what Dr Buss did by leaving the ship in the charge of his kids. Lets face it folks, if we desire this ship to right its course, well then maybe we should change the crew first.
Anonymous says
Clay – Its clearly not you.
Clay Bertrand says
Anonymous at 1:41,
I hope not!! Lol. This place is my church confessional, my country club, and my therapy group all rolled into one!! Hell I’d like to host a party for the whole forum just to see some of y’all and talk in person. Like a Lakers Fan Summit!!!! I will do it when we make the playoffs!!! So let’s sayyyyyyy, May 2020????? ; )
rr says
The coaching hires, though, I have not understood at all, going back to Brown.
Yeah, I can see that. My .02 on that topic:
Brown: I think he was hired because Jim didn’t want Shaw, who was Phil’s guy, and because they thought they would have Chris Paul to cover Brown’s supposed weaknesses as a coach of O. Worth noting that the Lakers went 41-25 under Brown and won a playoff series while Shaw bombed in Denver. They were a little lucky—Bynum played the whole schedule in 2012 and they beat their PYTH by 5 games. But they actually did have a pretty good year under Brown.
D’Antoni: As I have said, I think they saw him as a way to connect Nash, Kobe and Howard. Had ties to Nash, knew Kobe from Italy and Team USA, and supposedly D’Antoni ball, like Dwight Howard himself, is all about having fun. Those reasons—and MDA is a nig name who is not Phil. I backed the hire at the time, with the caveat that MDA would need to adjust to the lack of speed and long-range shooting on the roster. IMO he mostly didn’t. Worth noting that Howard also could not get along with Kevin McHale and that Howard is probably going to be on his way out of Houston.
Scott: Jim said it himself in preseason: Byron is a Laker, man. I think they also wanted someone who could supposedly get tough with the players, while connecting with Kobe, and I think they wanted a caretaker, a known quantity. I do not think that the FO expected the team to be 37-123 under Byron—I think they believed that they had 35-40 win teams and thought Byron would be OK for that level of team.
As it turned out, I think Scott would have done better with the 2012-13 team and D’Antoni would have been better with this team. Scott would have played slower inside-out ball with Pau and Howard, and like Bickerstaff, would have let Kobe and Steve Blake more or less run the O independently, along with Nash when he was physically able to play. Also, Scott is the kind of guy who is much less critical of big-name vets than he is of rookies. After the 2013 team had a lousy game, Scott as their coach would have said that these guys were all vets who had been there, etc. just had a bad night.
OTOH MDA would have been better with this team. He would play the young guys together and have them running a lot; he would be running a lot of high PnR through Russell. I don’t think Hibbert would have a job on a MDA team and probably neither would Williams. Kobe would be even more awkward on a D’Antoni version of this team, and I think MDA would have cut KB’s minutes.
Brown actually did fine with the talent he had, but that team spent ¾ of the season playing a non-Triangle with mostly Triangle personnel, and I think that team would have been happier, but probably not any better, under Shaw. That lack of fit lead in a way to trading Fisher and a #1 pick for Hill and trading a #1 pick for Sessions, and then trading four picks for Nash. Like so many other things with the team, we see a connection to the Veto.
BigCitySid says
– @ Clay Bertrand, my “superior ownership” comment about Balmer vs the “Bust” Kids had nothing to do with education. You’re confusing me with someone else. Check again. My point is Laker ownership is dysfunctional. Clipper ownership appears sane.
Clay Bertrand says
rr,
Well reasoned and I would agree on all the coaches. If you look close, you can see that the hires were just a little out of the box for the Lakers which shows at least some interest in change and going a different direction. I HOPE that is a valid interpretation at least.
As you point out, the irony of the roster construction in relation to the coaches of each team is the puzzling thing. Brown also came in with a good record and having seemingly dealt ok with a BIG STAR in Lebron. So he seemed to check multiple boxes for what we needed.
In fact, not just to point a finger but the ultimate unraveling of BOTH MikeB and MikeD seemed to be when KOBE stopped being supportive and started giving the death stares. I think like a lot of stars, Kobe was Great and also a Great Difficulty to deal with for a coach if he didn’t buy in. I forget who said it, but Phil (who wrote a book calling him “uncoachable”) only really started getting along with Kobe during his second stint as coach after he just basically let him do whatever he wanted without disagreement……and Phil has 11 rings as a coach and coached Jordan!!!!!
I think a big name feels they need a BIGGER NAME to coach them. As Kobe got bigger clout , with Phil out of the picture, the other names that are BIGGER than Kobe are very very few and all of them are College coaches in Coach K, Calipari, etc. I think both Mike’s would have fared much better in getting through to the teams without Kobe’s huge presence looming.
Hopefully, we see a progressive coaching hire again. THIS is finally the time to do it. We got YOUNG DOGS now. No OLD DOGS to try to teach new tricks. The options should be wide open!!
Clay Bertrand says
BCS, sorry for the misquote. My bad bro. I was incorrect.
Upon review, it was a comment posted by LT Mitchell where he was commenting on our discussion. His post mentioned Ballmer’s education and business background.
Your original sentiment though is not lost on me. I’d love to have Ballmer’s deep pockets in the owner chair!!!! ; ) Also dysfunctional vs. sane is a pretty fair comparison from our outsider perspective.
KO says
Ok Clay I will bring the beer and wine gir that meeting. Assuming I am not to old to drive by then.
Teamn says
I was the anonymous poster from 658am (doubt most people care), but definitely hope I did not offend Darius.
rr — your coaching review was in response to my comment I believe. I did not think the coach matched the team, in the case of Brown, MDA, or Byron. Thus, my lack of “understanding” which really is a euphemism for “I thought they were bad choices.” What do I know?!?!
Your rationale, of course, offers some explanation and, like many of the player choices, can make sense in some ways. I would, however, respectfully argue that many of us thought the coaching selections were dubious, at best. Again, my opinion.
LordMo says
Win or Lose! Lakers Forever!
Randle or Re-Run! Lakers Forever!
On this we all can agree! I enjoy everyones input. The debate has helped us all get thru a rough season….
Thank you all! Ol’ LordMo…
TempleOfJamesWorthy says
I encourage everyone to listen to Zach Lowe’s podcast interview with then-still 76ers GM Sam Hinkie.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=15139625
and read Hinkie’s resignation letter to the 76ers ownership
http://espn.go.com/pdf/2016/0406/nba_hinkie_redact.pdf
Many fans here insist Jim/Mitch and/or Jeannie are hopelessly out-of-touch anachronisms whose shortcomings have held the Lakers down. They want young dynamic innovative new leadership to lead the Lakers to new chapters of greatness. How’s that goink(sic) for the 76ers? Or the Knicks?
There is no real secret to NBA success. You need 3 NBA All-Stars (maybe 2.5 if one is sufficiently dominant in one area, e.g. Dennis Rodman), you need a decent mix of role players (preferably of mixed ages) and a competent coach to whom the players listen, such that the players are willing to sacrifice personal goals (money, shots, playing time, recognition, etc.) for team goals.
What is NOT known by ANYONE inside the NBA or out, is how to reliably produce that result. If someone did know, they would do it, and soon so would every other team. But we don’t know. Furthermore, some paths taken by some teams mean NO OTHER TEAM can take them. If Team X has LeBron James, that means 29 other teams DON’T have LBJ, and their chances of winning are diminished because of that.
Sure, there are paths which are more likely to produce success. If you bet your team’s future success on Matt Bonner and the draft rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum, you’re likely to be disappointed.
But if I told you five years ago the way to NBA dominance (including possibly the best regular season ever) was to draft an undersized shooting guard out of Davidson College and pair him with an undersized not-very-athletic 2nd round power forward prospect because the two of them would break the game of basketball and competely change how its played, would you have bought into that plan? I don’t think so.
Every NBA front office knows the destination. They all are trying different paths to get there. Just because the current Laker front office haven’t found a path for several years doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t know what they’re doing.
If Hinkie’s path had yielded Giannis Antetokounmpo, Andrew Wiggins, Jordan Clarkson, and Karl-Anthony Towns, he’d still be the 76ers GM.
If the Lakers path had yielded Chris Paul and a willing-to-be-DeAndre Jordan+ Dwight Howard (or Andrew Wiggins and Karl-Anthony Towns in the past two drafts), we’d be having a very diffrent conversation.
But in an endeavor so governed by the randomness of ping pong trajectories and knee tissue durability under stress, the observed outcome doesn’t necessarily tell you anything about the process which produced the outcome.
rr says
How’s that goink(sic) for the 76ers? Or the Knicks?
—
No one thinks of the Knicks as having young and innovative leadership. Presumably you were just being sarcastic.
Nor sure what your point is. Everybody here is smart enough to know that luck and timing play key roles in building a champion, and many here have acknowledged over and over again that the Veto was a crippling blow from which the Lakers have not recovered. I mentioned it again in this thread. And everybody knows that Jim Buss hasn’t caught many breaks. Everybody knows the value of superstars, which is why people are hoping so hard that either Ingram or Simmons lands here and becomes one.
That said, the Lakers FO has made a lot of questionable decisions and some obviously bad ones in a time in which there are many NBA organizations run by guys who have different profiles than Buss, Kupchak, and Scott; and which have moved into or stayed at the middle or upper-middle level of the league, in large part due to good talent management and good coaching: Utah, Boston, Charlotte, Detroit, Atlanta, Toronto, Memphis, Indiana, Dallas…all of these teams have fielded competitive-to-good teams without having either LeBron James or Steph Curry. And even most of the other bad teams have more talent than the Lakers do.
So, people look around at that and look at a Lakers team that is 64-179 over the last three years and, understandably, want to see some change in, or at least question the direction charted by, the FO. What is puzzling to me is why some people are so bothered by other fans doing that. If the Lakers start doing better, then people will say nicer things about the guys who run them.
Jim C. says
Re: Sam Hinkie
I think the jury is still out on him. I also think that the tanking strategy, by default, requires some luck. If a few lottery balls had bounced a little differently then the 76ers would be the Timberwolves right now and nobody would be questioning Hinkie’s strategy.
I kind of feel like he “stepped down” (was fired) more for bad luck and because his approach blatantly embarrassed the league for their own faults than for his own performance. “The process” wasn’t wrong based on how the current CBA works.
Tanking is the inevitable result of how the incentive system in the NBA is presently constructed. If some lottery balls had fallen differently, the 76ers would look like one of the most promising young teams in the league right now instead of the punchline of a joke. Similarly, if the league’s owners would get off their collective hinies and either change the incentives to tank or punish the most grievous offenders, team’s would be less inclined to do so.
But the NBA has tried so hard to be the NFL with regards to parity that they’ve inadvertently created the messed up system that has cratered at least two of their core franchises. (The 76ers and the Lakers are historically two of the most storied and important franchises – and MARKETS – in the league.)
The basic intent of trying to level the playing field between big market and small market clubs isn’t wrong. The execution, on the other hand, is absolutely rife with problems.
Fern says
I was piss drunk by halftime thats my game recollection, i need liquid courage to watch/ forget…
LordMo says
@JamesWorthy
Been waiting for someone other than me to bring up Giannis A.
We straight out missed on this guy but we were not the only ones!
But can’t get them all!
Jim C. says
Every time I come here and try and post I’m reminded why I seldom do.
I understand that the site owner has chosen to require pre-clearance of posts of a certain length, and that they have a life outside of clearing comments from the approval queue, but for somebody who wants to make a long, thoughtful comment it always means hours before that comment shows up.
Which makes it challenging to have a conversation/debate with folks. I enjoy the content and articles here and the commenters all seem pretty nice. But the commenting system is very annoying because of this pre-approval requirement.
Clay Bertrand says
Jim C.,
I share your frustration with some of the approval/moderation of posts. I wasn’t sure if it was only due to length or whether posts were flagged for review because of profanity being picked up or other key words. I tend to be a long winded poster myself and I’m sure too long winded for some….
One of the reasons this site is great is because it doesn’t have every BSPN unfiltered pot shot post littering the threads. Darius and any helpers he may have try to do their best I’m sure, but we are all crazy people who follow this team!! Lol…we post at ALL hours sometimes and a few of us are verbose in our analysis. I’m sure it’s a quite a task to look over every comment. Maybe Darius can loosen the reins a little bit for “good behavior”?? ; )
I usually read back thru a thread if I see there is new commentary and I read every post so when something new is up, its easy to pick out. A lot of people here read past threads and keep old threads going if there is still discussion too. All of these things make the timing of posts less pressing and I don’t feel it detracts from this site at all.
I read everyone’s comments and we have some sharp observers in here with Darius. I look forward to reading a number of regular posters in here just to see what other reasonable, people think. The timing of when it was written seems annoying but in the end, we all see your thoughts bro.
Clay Bertrand says
Jim C.,
I agree with your post regarding the tanking being just a natural component of the system. I also agree that Sam Hinkie’s blatantly outward approach to the whole “bottoming out to rebuild concept” was off putting for the league to allow to be seen. In Baseball a few years ago, the Houston Astros did the same thing and it made other owners upset because it went against the spirit of their revenue sharing agreement.
Your biggest point that I see as perhaps under appreciated by most, is just plain LUCK. Not just the “LUCK” of being crappy enough to be in the lottery; Not just the LUCK to land the number 1 or 2 or 3 pick; But more critically, the LUCK to have a generational talent available in that draft where you find yourself with these high picks. ESPECIALLY with the gambling on young POTENTIAL stars the modern draft has become.
Some drafts yield not ONE of these players. Some yield two or three. The Cavaliers drafted 4 NUMBER 1 Lottery picks in modern history: Lebron, Kyrie Irving, Anthony Bennett and Andrew Wiggins. Lebron is arguably the best player in the game, Irving is a bonafide star PG, Wiggins is considered a developing star and Bennett is almost out of the NBA.
You need a triangulation of luck!!! Good players can be found further down of course but these once in a decade or more guys are first picks.
If your team happens to be bottoming out during a stretch of weak talent entering the draft, that is some bad luck. Drafting Anthony Bennett and then three years later, Karl Anthony Towns is the top pick is a real example of the drastic swings in talent infusion that can happen in a year or two.
SO Yes, I’m Captain Obvious in agreeing that LUCK plays a part…..Its when you look draft to draft over the years that you see how big a factor LUCK is!!!
Root for our Balls now people!!!!
Darius Soriano says
Comments are not held for moderation based on length. The filter which holds the comments picks up key words — words which I do not dictate — and holds them. I am the only person approving comments. Sometimes this means I do not see a comment for a little while as I have a life outside of this site. If people want to volunteer to moderate comments in order to help get comments approved faster, let me know. I am happy to try and work something out with folks. You can always email me rather than coming into the comments and complaining that I’m not doing it fast enough. And if that keeps you from commenting here…well, that’s just how it will go. Sorry, I can’t spend every waking moment in the dashboard of this site waiting for comments to come in so I can approve them in minutes. I have two daughters under the age of 5, a full time day job, and wife who I want to stay married to. Hahaha.
karen says
Was this forum set up so we have to make up positive things to say about a very bad team or you don’t want us. I thoroughly enjoy this forum and occasionally make negative comments. I went to laker games in the jerry west era. Been around a long time and yes i may be the only woman in here. On a positive note todays rumor us phil jackson is coming back. That makes sense, they can ease scott out and use jacksons name to sign top free agents.
LordMo says
@Darius
Thanks bro for all you do! Much appreciated by us all!!!!
Anonymous says
I think the jury is still out on him. I also think that the tanking strategy, by default, requires some luck. If a few lottery balls had bounced a little differently then the 76ers would be the Timberwolves right now and nobody would be questioning Hinkie’s strategy.
___
Luck is exactly the issue here. According to probability theory you get a crazy amount of variance if you have only one shot at a lottery, even if your probabilities are good. Example: if you roll dice 600 times you’ll get a 6 about 100 times, if you roll dice 6 times you may not get a 6 at all. You need a statistically significant number of events to get a neat distribution. One lottery is not enough for that. If Hinkie knows his math he can’t complain about bad luck. It was a very risky strategy to begin with.