With all the excitement about looking forward to the upcoming summer and season — with a new draft pick and head coach to help usher forward a new era — it’s easy to forget about last season. Some of that, of course, is wanting to forget a 17 win season. But there are some redeemable things from last year.
One of which was announced on Thursday when D’Angelo Russell was named to the NBA All-Rookie 2nd Team. From the Lakers’ press release:
Los Angeles Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell has been named to the NBA’s All-Rookie Second Team, it was announced today. Russell is the second consecutive Laker to be honored with an All-Rookie team selection, joining Jordan Clarkson who was selected to the First Team last season, and is the fourth Laker in team history (Kobe Bryant and Travis Knight in 1996-97 and Nick Van Exel in 1993-94) to be awarded Second Team honors.
The second overall pick in the 2015 NBA Draft played in 80 games (48 starts) in 2015-16, averaging 13.2 points, 3.4 rebounds, 3.3 assists, and 1.16 steals in 28.2 minutes per game. He finished the year ranked 4th among rookies in assists and steals, and 5th in points and three-point field goal percentage, and was one of 10 American rookie and sophomore players selected by the league’s assistant coaches to participate in the Rising Stars Challenge at NBA All-Star 2016.
The Lakers went on to name other highlights of Russell’s season, mostly tying back to accomplishments he achieved contrasted against his age. Russell spent over half the season as a 19 year old, so his ability to contribute at a reasonably high level and reach some of the benchmarks he did is worth reflecting positively on. I, for one, congratulate Russell on this achievement.
That said, there will be some who wanted more from Russell and will point out that, as the 2nd overall pick, the hope would that he would be a 1st team member. Russell missed out on that honor by 44 points, or the equivalent of 22 1st-Team votes. Russell received 25 1st team votes and 92 2nd team votes. The only guard on the 1st team was Devin Booker, also a young player who had a strong close to the season playing for a Suns team who suffered several key injuries to their guard rotation.
If that scenario sounds familiar, it should. It’s the same path Jordan Clarkson took to make the 1st Team last season. And it was likely Booker’s strong close which resonated with voters. When comparing Booker’s numbers to Russell, they are actually very similar in points, assists, rebounds, shooting percentages, etc, etc. I would imagine the “off court” drama which Russell dealt with also resonated with voters, but that’s a discussion I will avoid (as I have all year).
In any event, I view this as a positive for Russell even if some will likely use it (and his 9th place finish in the Rookie of the Year voting) to try and tarnish Russell’s rookie campaign. This is silly to me, honestly. It’s fair to criticize Russell for the things he did not do well last year. His defense wasn’t particularly strong, he started slowly, and finished the season on a fizzle even though he was granted more minutes and a return to the starting lineup.
Of course, there’s context to add to what Russell’s season was — the coach, the system, his role, etc. These things should not be ignored and are part of the conversation. In all honesty, however, I am tired of having that conversation. We all know last season was a challenge for lots of the players, Russell included. Thankfully, change is on the horizon and it will be on Russell (and the other players) to fully grasp the opportunity in front of him and improve.
All-Rookie 2nd team is a fine honor. As is being named to the Team USA Select Team. As was being part of the Rising Stars challenge. But Russell’s continued work, both on and off the court, is what will matter most. We’ve already been getting glimpses of that work. More of that and he’ll be just fine. Regardless of how anyone views the recognition he does or does not receive.
LKK says
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ci1tyLpUkAAVMDv.jpg
A breakdown of the voting. Congrats to DAR!
BigCitySid says
– Congrats to young Mr Russell. In spite of an ownership group and coach who, in my opinion, sabotaged his rookie season (which I believe was also a factor in him acting out in some very immature ways) to celebrate their outgoing legend. Without the normal support and playing time of a top draft pick, D’Angelo was still able to finish 9th in rookie of the year voting, and show enough to land on the 2nd all-NBA team. All while playing the toughest position for a rookie to master.
– Looking forward to seeing his sophomore season breakout, when he’ll actually get support from his coach & an opportunity to control the ball and his team.
– With DAR’s two rookie awards, a new coach, and getting the # 2 overall draft pick, May has been the best month for our Lakers in years.
– This Laker fan is pulling out his rose colored glasses.
AttilasDaughter says
Russell played under difficult circumstances.
His main task was to give the ball to Kobe, not putting up the ROY-show.
This is also why it is hard to compare the rookie seasons of the 2015 draft. There are very different circumstances involved.
Still, Russell is the one rookie I would not trade.
He deserves the next season as a Laker to show who he really is.
John Citizen says
I think Russell is very exciting to watch. I used to lose interest in lakers games when he go to the bench. i dont blame the coach because there was a lack of vision in the upper office of what to do with the rookie. Kobe should have retired when he found out that he cant play anymore, not to drag it till the end of the season and ruin it for others. Imagine what he would ve done if byron scott retired when he was a rookie and had similar tour.
manny pacman says
Dream Line-up:
PG: Russell/Huertas
SG: Clarkson/ LouWill / Nick young
SF: Ingram/ Fournier/ ABrown
PF: Randle/ Nance
C: Whiteside/ Ezeli/ Black
KevTheBold says
I would venture to say, that if D’Angelo were playing in Minny, national recognition of his prodigious talent would be a given.
Next season, let’s hope circumstances allow him to do his thing.
On another subject; any thoughts on Simmons forcing his way to LA?
Anonymous says
Dream Line-up:
PG: Russell/Huertas
SG: Clarkson/ LouWill / Nick young
SF: Ingram/ Fournier/ ABrown
PF: Randle/ Nance
C: Whiteside/ Ezeli/ Black
___
Fournier would start at the Two. Too expensive to sign both Whiteside and Ezeli. I don’t think either will be available to the Lakers — besides Whiteside may be an expensive headcase.
Mid-Wilshire says
@manny pacman,
I think your line-up could be close to reality for next year.
I might differ on a few minor points (I’d substitute Solomon Hill for Fournier and would drop Nick Young whom the Lakers, I think, will buy out and then add the Lakers #32 draft pick who could possibly stick), but I actually think that your projection could be very close to what we’ll be looking at next year.
Chibi says
Would love to have a healthy Noah on the floor and in the locker room to captain the team. Ryan Anderson for spacing. Batum could be our Iguodala.
R says
More than happy to share my thoughts about Simmons “forcing” his way to LA, even though I’m repeating myself. (I ain’t the only one).
Anyway, IMO the only active player with the leverage to “force” anything with the owners is LBJ. The owners are in charge, and I don’t see a 19 yo “forcing” anything other than bad shots in the upcoming season.
There was similar talk, BTW of KAT talking his way out of Minny and into LA and as we all know, nothing came of it. Expect the same outcome this time.
AusPhil says
Thoughts on Kobe being at pre-draft workouts? Playing the role that Coop played at Kobe’s workout back in ’96.
Just an idle thought.
KevTheBold says
R-
According to a couple of sources, it’s not unheard for a player to force his way to a preferred team.
Kobe reportedly did it.
It’s also said that Porzingis and his agent straight armed Philly from drafting him last season.
With regards to Kat, from what I understand, he refused to even work out for LA, and from all interviews I had seen, say he wanted to land in Minny.
Ben on the other hand has been angling for Los Angeles, for some time.
Not saying that if he were available, we would or should draft him, or not, only that is appears that he and his agent have the motivations and avenues to at least make it possible.
R says
Kev, guess we’ll see soon enough.
Rahul says
Congratulations to Russel (as well as Nance & Huertas)! Weird to see 4 forwards and a guard on the 1st team, though. Towns-Porzingis-Winslow-Booker-Mudiay were my picks for all rookie.
As to team composition for the coming season, I’d like to see Russel play the 2 rather than PG, and sign a ball handler with decent defensive chops (Conley comes to mind) to run the offense. Clarkson becomes the lead guard off the bench (he seems to be better when he is the decision maker on offense).
I’m not very high on Fournier (good offense, so-so defense) and would rather spend on Bazemore (preferred) or Batum, both of whom provide good wing defense and decent outside shooting. Though not a max guy, IMO, I would not be upset if we went hard after Harrison Barnes either. He is currently the fifth or sixth best player on a championship squad and, based on what little I’ve seen, has a ceiling of third or fourth best. However, he can defend 2-4 and would be a great pick up so long as he is happy not being the featured player on offense.
Center is a bit of a toss up. I’m not sold on Whiteside and would be okay with Ezeli or Mozgov. Pachulia or Noah would be useful, too, as back ups. If trades were an option, I’ve got my eyes on Henson (Bucks) and Nurkic (Nuggets).
Anyone know the latest on Larry Sanders? The Lakers should give him a look if he’s interested in a comeback.
Fern says
Mitch went on record saying that they won’t trade the pick. That’s a huge relief. About “the bust” thats a good accolade considering all that went down on his rookie season. And that Dwight interview man oh man what a weak minded clown. I hope the few people that have hope for his return are being sarcastic…
Anonymous says
Fern–geez dude–no one ever said Russelll is a “bust”. It’s fair to say we don’t know how high his upside is without being considered a Laker hater.
Hale says
Rahul… maybe
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/larry-sanders-to–look-into-coming-back–to-nba-151157576.html
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/qa-larry-sanders-explains-break-from-nba/
A Horse with no name says
Rahul: Pure point guards are going the way of back to the basket pivot men. Teams now talk about “ball handlers” and “initiators”, guys that bring the ball up and start the offense. In the GS offense, which the lakers will run, multiple handlers abound: Draymond, Iguadola, Livingston, and Curry. So we can extrapolate that the lakers will use Clarkson and Russell, Randle and others in the same manner. If the lakers can land a big 2 guard ( something Mitch has already talked about) in free agency, I think Clarkson moves to a sixth man role, which he is ideally suited for wth his combo skills and attacking style. The lakers desire to get bigger in the backcourt is part of a larger plan to become a longer, bigger team–so it’s hard to envision pairing Russell with a smaller guard. Most point guards are the smallest players on the court, and that would negate Russell’s size advantage over most point guards, something the lakers want to take advantage of, as we’ve already seen.
Fern says
@anonymous i call him “the bust” in a sarcastic way because people here were calling him a bust since the 1st day of Summer League. Been doing it for a while. I don’t think he is a bust, quite the contrary…
manny pacman says
I’d rather develop ingram or simmons than sign HBarnes. Signing him would mean that our 2nd pick would spend more time in the bench instead of playing with our 4 young starters. Use the money on centers and bench players and we’re good.
manny pacman says
Huertas, clarkson and nance would be deadly off the bench. Add in a defensive 3 and 5 to compliment their offense
Renato Afonso says
I’m still not sold on him and will wait for some improvements on both sides of the ball, especially on the physical side (his shooting and court vision are fine and will improve gradually). I do think that both Russell and Randle may develop as we need them to and both (assuming we get Ingram, not Simmons) should be starters next season, alongside Ingram. After watching those three play for a full season with a good coaching staff, we’ll be able to know what future the Lakers have with them, regardless of W-L column. Again, I don’t think that Clarkson should be more than a sixth man to provide scoring to the second unit, and from our young players, I would have no problem with trading him for someone who can help on defense.
Also, without Kobe around and with a good system in place, I would like to see him control the tempo and becoming more of a floor general with good 3pt shooting and some low post scoring. He has the technical skills but needs to be more focused and willing to do the extra effort while improving his physical condition.
LordMo says
Sigh…
Has nothing to do with the coaching a much as everyone’s insane desire to make DAR the #1 and Clarkson a #2. I have seen a lot of BB and they both look out of position to me.
If DAR was @ the #2 all year kid might have dam near made the All-Star team let alone been 1st team All-Rookie. He can straight light it up and is a gifted passer but let’s be honest here. DAR might be a step slow to play PG especially in the West which makes him 2 steps slow really. If the Lakers insist on moving forward with him playing the Point then we will need a lock-down defender for the back court which is currently not on the roster.
All that being said I like this kid and his game. I do expect Walton to open it up for him and allow the kid to get looks because this kid can knock them down with the best in the league right now. Just a matter of confidence and maturity to be able to handle the load of becoming the focal point of the offense.
Congrats DAR! Now the true work begins!
@Kev
I swear bro I was thinking that…. If Simmons was smart he would tell Philly don’t even try it our our will go overseas rather than play in that “hell-hole”. This kid is an Aussie he don’t want that Philly weather at all let alone that organization. I am really starting to think that Simmons is really contemplating that tact and my opinion of this kid just went up 10 fold. Errrr…this kid might be the smartest pick in the last decade! The Lakers are a GOLDMINE craving a superstar and this kid and his camp clearly see it. Also, being on the west coast allows Simmons more of a lifestyle he is probably accustomed to and to be closer to home. And then there is the Nike angle… Simmons signs and bam is in LA as Kobe (Nike) fades away… cue Hollywood ending baby!
BigCitySid says
– Appears to be a lot of Ben Simmons love here. Imaging that would mean moving Randle sooner than later. Wonder what type of interest/value he would have?
– Also find it interesting some have forgotten Kobe, the 13th pick, straight out of high school, drafted by Charlotte, “forced” his way to L.A. So no, I wouldn’t find it surprising if a higher draft pick, attempted to do it after 1 year of college.
– Eli Manning did the same for my NY Giants, had no interest in playing for the Chargers. Based on their careers, a total of 7 rings, why wouldn’t a highly desirable young athlete try it?
Shaun says
I also think that its weird that the 1st team doesn’t go by position – should be a standard – pg,sg,sf,pf,c
Ryan P says
R said active player. Kobe is no longer active. So his statement that LBJ is the only active player to force his hand is accurate. Kristops wanted to be in NYC, who wouldn’t. But the 76ers really a marque rookie name, which Okafor was.
Ben Simmons will probably go to the 76ers. They need someone to be a point guard, Simmons is as close as they will get. Brett Brown worked with Simmons in Australia so I see how this works out.
Rahul says
Thanks for the links, Hale. Based on that interview, I don’t think he’s likely to make an immediate return to action.
AHwnn, you make a valid point and I am fully on board with the multiple ball handlers and free flowing offense idea. However, I disagree with the idea that the Pauls, Rondos and Conleys of the world on their way out of the NBA. I think Russell has the size and, more importantly, the skill to do well on offense (especially in one that emphasizes spacing and movement) against SGs. And given the paucity of elite SGs in the league, he may have an easier time on defense against them as well.
If we draft Ingram, and sign one of Bazemore/Batum/Barnes, I’d be happy to have Russell run the point. Otherwise, having Russell at SG and a defensively competent PG results in a better team, IMO. Clarkson coming off the bench is also, IMO, in the team’s best interest.
R says
True I did add the caveat of active player … I think Elway pushed is way out of Denver, and as we all know he continues to be a major operator to this day.
And of course, KAJ used those sharp elbows of his to make his way out of Milwaukee and to LA.
So yeah, its not unheard of. And there is the Simmons shoe story that lends some credence to the narrative or at least provides reason to speculate he might prefer to be in LA. Who wouldn’t prefer LA – even with its sketchy ownership mess – to Philly and their mess?
But actually making it happen is another thing entirely … we shall see.
Craig W. says
Exactly one year ago today, nobody – fans, not GMs – had even heard of Kristaps Porzi??is. The first three picks were pretty set, but NY taking Porzi??is fourth was a bit of a surprise. We were saying Phil took a real chance and this could backfire. The NY fans were horrified. At best, this was viewed as a long-term project – the guy was so skinny we thought he would get banged around in the post (somewhat true, actually).
A lot of things have changed in a year, but perhaps our memories have changed most of all.
bluehill says
Question for those much better able to evaluate talent than me. There’s a lot of talk about signing DeRozan in the off-season. I think that Clarkson offers similar abilities to get to the basket with a better outside shot and will be helped by the kind of offense Luke wants to run. He’s in his second year and his stats match up with DeRozan’s at the same point in time in his career. What are the reasons that JC’s game won’t develop further so that in 4 more years we end having a DeRozan-like player with an outside shot?
LordMo says
@bluehill
I don’t think Clarkson is anywhere like or near DeRozan let’s come back to earth buddy.
As far shooting DeRozan has probably the best mid-range game in the league which he displayed last night.
JC is more like Rondo but taller…
@Kev
More on Simmons…
Package our 2nd pick with Randle/Clarkson to Philly for 1st and one of their bigs and whoever else. Might be able to just trade pick and Clarkson for their 1st and big. Then dangle Randle for another asset in 2017. Hmmm…. This could get interesting. Helps both teams!
R says
Careful Lord – sounds a lot like trade speculation to me ! (Grin).
bluehill says
LordMo – question is do you think JC in a few more years will be closer to where DeRozan is now?
Another take on DeRozan which gets at more concern –
https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-ringer/torontos-big-problem-demar-derozan-is-a-dinosaur/1712512792348504
“Toronto’s problem starts with one of its two stars, but not who you’re thinking of. Kyle Lowry’s ongoing playoff meltdown has been well-documented, but DeMar DeRozan has the second-worst plus-minus on the team in the series. And it’s DeRozan’s conundrum that embodies the Raptors’ struggles. Back in January, he told ESPN’s Zach Lowe
, “I have no problem shooting 3s, I just feel like I can get to the basket at will, so it almost feels like settling. But I know I have to take them, so now I’m just gonna shoot it.” Except, DeRozan hasn’t attempted more than one 3-pointer in a game since the first round against the Pacers nearly three weeks ago. His long-range aversion is the one glaring flaw holding him back from modernity; watching him struggle can feel like watching someone bomb ‘90s Night at a karaoke bar.
In a seven-game series, where every single one of your flaws gets internalized by the defense, stars need to be versatile enough to adjust to the circumstances. Only four of DeRozan’s 35 attempts after two games have come around the rim; he isn’t getting to the basket at will anymore. Maybe it’s unfair to call out the one player on the Raptors who’s giving the team a steady 20 points per game, but DeRozan’s blueprint is in plain view: 71 percent of his shots in the series have come from midrange. It’s the least threatening 20 points the Cavs will allow in any given game; they’re almost happy to oblige.”
T. Rogers says
Thinking about Philly’s situation:
Embiid is supposed to be coming back this season. So he will be their center. That will allow Noel to slide back to his natural position of power forward. So it makes too much sense for Philly to take Ingram to be their small forward. Of course that leaves Okafor as the odd man out. They may trade him. Or they make keep him as insurance for Embiid. Either way Ingram makes the most sense for Philly as they are presently constructed.
If Philly took Simmons they’d basically have two power forwards (Simmons and Noel) and two centers (Embiid and Okafor). That makes the least amount of sense unless they have some trades up their sleeve. And that’s always possible. But for now I expect the Lakers to take Ben Simmons on draft day.
Mid-Wilshire says
bluehiill,
You ask an excellent question…and a perceptive one, too. Jordan Clarkson is, after all, only 23 years old. He is not over the hill. There are several commenters and pundits who say that he should be coming off the bench. But this is extremely short-sided and shows a lack of patience and attention span that is typical of many fans.
The truth is that Clarkson (as well as Russell, Randle, Nance, and even Tarik Black…not to mention Brandon Ingram) are in the growth phase of their careers. It is impossible to predict exactly how much they’ll improve over the summer let alone over the next 2-3 years. Here are some examples below of the improvement of other players (in terms of ppg) at similar stages of their careers:
KLAY THOMPSON
Year 1 — 12.5 ppg
Year 2 — 16.6
Year 3 — 18.4
Year 4 — 21.7
GIANNIS ANTETOKOUNMPO
Year 1 — 6.8
Year 2 — 12.7
Year 3 — 16.9
JIMMY BUTLER
Year 1 — 2.6
Year 2 — 8.6
Year 3 — 13.1
Year 4 — 20.0
JAMES HARDEN
Year 1 — 9.9
Year 2 — 12.2
Year 3 — 16.8
Year 4 — 25.9
Clearly, then, when players are in that delicate stage of their careers (20-26), their games are embryonic and growing. They can improve gradually as is the case with Harden or exponentially as with Butler. At any time, a 23 or 24 year-old player can have a breakout season, especially if they have been improving and have certain undeniable athletic skills (as Clarkson does).
The improvement of young players is not a science. It is impossible to predict. But the last thing you want to do is to stifle the growth of a Klay Thompson or a Jimmy Butler (or a Jordan Clarkson) at the very point when their careers are on the verge of taking off.
I think it’s vital that the Lakers show patience with their young core, especially now that they’ll have a new coaching staff and an entirely new set of mentors. Who knows to what extent Clarkson, Randle, Russell, and Nance will improve over the summer?
But I do know that the worst thing to do would be to strangle that growth.
The Lakers are in the midst of a youth movement, like it or not. They should embrace that youth movement and let it play out. Golden State did. So did OKC. Obviously, it paid off for them.
Nik Kannan says
I got shut down the other day for posing two scenarios regarding what approach our FO should take given which player lands to us at #2. My point was we have to adjusted our approach to trades and FA based on who is selected…
BUT – I really didn’t realize how expensive some of the mid tier talent would be. I suggested Bradley beal, Batum, Whiteside and Mozgov + Dudley… First I was wrong – I’ve watched a lot of Bradley beal – I don’t think he is a max player … Maybe a $10-12 mil a year player …. But that is the market … Batum is a near max player , DeRozen is a max player , Whiteside will get the max… Mozgov barley is on the court w/ Cleveland and he will get 10 mil a year easy… Barnes is the 6th… THE 6th best player on his team and he will get the max…
This is just stupid and I don’t want any of those FA.. Stuck in bad contracts with mediocre players … The only FA worth the max and duration of contract is KD who probably won’t leave…
Paying Whiteside is a bad decision – I like him but watch the hustle plays and motivation vanish once he gets a paycheck. DeRozen can not shoot the ball from the outside – we need player who can shoot and spread the floor for Luke..
All this being said … We can stash the money and just get enough players to meet the minimum salary requirements and hope for a trade to fill cap or find superstar….
Or we can go hard after PG24 and Boogie.
I think we can anchor a team around those two and be pretty darn competitive… Not sure the nuts and bolts… What do you all think it would take to get PG & or Boogie???
bluehill says
Mid – yes, I’m hoping/expecting to see JC continue to improvement, particularly since he seems willing to put in the work. So unless there are fundamental flaws that make people think that he has plateaued, it seems like a more cost effective way to go and allows are core to grow together.
Adding to your stats –
DeRozan
Yr 1 – 8.6
Yr 2 – 17.2
Yr 3 – 16.7
Yr 4 – 18.1
JC
Yr 1 – 11.9
Yr 2 – 15.5
Yr 3 – ?
Craig W. says
Philly has been tanking for the last 4 years, in an attempt to take advantage of the current CBA. Of course, they have simply drafted the best perceived player each year, with no consideration for fit or temperament. They reached a point where they finally fired their GM and brought in a builder – Colangelo. If there are any fans more impatient than Laker fans, it would be Philly fans.
With what they have and what they need, they should draft Ingram. However, the ‘best player’ syndrome is still out there and the coach and organization know more about Simmons than pretty much any other organization – and they really like him. If they think he can become a quasi-point guard, they will draft him – regardless what their current roster looks like.
At this point in history and development the question is, does the organization have the b***s to opt for their perceived 2nd best player because of fit? I don’t think so, but we will see in June.
rr says
I think it is possible that Clarkson may have a breakout with Kobe and Byron gone, but one problem with the argument is that his USG stayed pretty much the same (23.0/22.8) and he didn’t make any big leap forward, and he will be 24 in three weeks. Also, all of the guys on Mid’s list were drafted much higher than Clarkson was and came into the league at a younger age.
The other side of it is that he did improve from 3, going from .314 to .347. His AST rate cratered, but that was mostly due to Kobe, Williams and Russell being on the team.
So, I think incremental improvement is more likely than a breakout, but we will see.
I will be interested to see how many teams make offers to Clarkson and for how much, as that will be an indicator of how he is seen around the league.
As to team-building, I am in favor of the slow, incremental approach, so I would pretty much sign a 5, play the young guys, and get them bench help rather than going all-in on DeRozan, Barnes , or Batum.
I have a higher opinion of Whiteside than some here do, based on his PnR numbers and watching a few games of his over the second half. But I think that he will stay with Miami and that the Lakers will get Ezeli.
R says
I’m with rr and think Whiteside stays in Miami – Riles finds a way to make it happen.
Adding one max guy is probably the prudent way to go but the little kid in me wants a big splash that brings in two stars. But yeah.
Chris J says
There are several commenters and pundits who say that (Clarkson) should be coming off the bench. But this is extremely short-sided and shows a lack of patience and attention span that is typical of many fans.”
————
It’s not short-sighted if you consider that both Clarkson and Russell each have thus far demonstrated the defensive skill sets of a one-legged hippopotamus corpse. Placing the two of them on the floor at the same time would necessitate a Wilt or Mutombo-level big man to play behind them to clean up their mess, and last anyone checked those guys were dead or retired. I’m not down on either Russell or Clarkson’s long-term value, but until they become better defenders, playing them together is dangerous. And I like the idea of Clarkson as a spark plug for the second unit. Others see potential there, too.
As to the point TRogers made… the question for the Sixers boils down to whether they see Simmons as a long-tem four, or as a hybrid guard with open floor passing skills but the size to bang down low, like an Odom or Magic once were. If the answer is the latter, he makes a lot of sense for that franchise.
I’ve not watched Simmons or Ingram enough to have an opinion on who’s best for the Lakers, but I’m resigned to the hope that Philly will make the wrong call and we’ll hopefully land the better NBA prospect with the second pick.
Mid-Wilshire says
I’d be OK with incremental improvement from Clarkson. As bluehill notes, he averaged 11.9 ppg as a rookie, 15.5 as a 2nd-year player. That’s a 3.6 ppg increase in one year, even though his shooting % did not improve. If he does improve even by a modest amount, say, 2 ppg over the next 2 years, he’ll be a 20 point-per-game scorer after 2 more years. I’m not saying that this will happen, but it could…even with incremental growth. One way or the other, I expect some improvement from JC (and the other kids as well).
My larger point is that Clarkson is in the growth phase of his career (most players don’t hit their peak until they’re 26 or so). As a result, now is not the time to trade him or send him to the bench. And now is not the time to bring in DeRozan. If the Lakers were to do that, they could possibly find themselves with a log jam at the 2 position in another year with DeRozan committed to 4 years and Clarkson on the ascent.
One must take a long term view of such things.
With regard to Whiteside, I agree with rr. I think he’s better than many commenters here are giving him credit for. He led the league in blocks (by a wide margin), he’s a top 3 rebounder, and he was 3rd in the voting for DPOY. Now…how Miami could possibly hold on to him is another matter.
Miami’s projected cap space will be approximately $36,643,557. However, they only have 4 guaranteed contracts. If Whiteside swallows up $22 Million of that, then Miami would have $14 Mill to spend on 8 players. (You need a minimum of 13 players on your team.) Also, they must sign Dwayne Wade. But with full Bird Rights, they are allowed to go over the cap to sign him.
So, signing Whiteside is possible but it will be a very tight fit. I think it all comes down to whether Hassan wants to stay in Miami or not. One way or the other, when it comes to cap space, Miami is not in an ideal position. Boston, Dallas, Philly, Washington, Portland, and Houston, on the other hand, are in strong positions. So are the Lakers.
I expect Whiteside to get a lot of interest. It’s impossible to predict which way he’ll go. Only time will tell.
Kbj says
Yup, until Clarkson or Russell’s defense improve, playing them together ensures losses. We’re not trying to tank next year, right?
Mid-Wilshire says
“I’m not down on either Russell or Clarkson’s long-term value, but until they become better defenders, playing them together is dangerous.”
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With all due respect, I think this reasoning is flawed. Many commenters on this sight are assuming that Russell and Clarkson (neither of whom was any good defensively last year) will again be a disaster on the defensive side of the ball next season.
But bear in mind, the Lakers will have a new Head Coach, new mentors for the kids, and different systems on both sides of the ball. For young players who are still learning the game, this is not irrelevant.
We should give the new coaching staff an opportunity to work with the young players and help them hone their defensive skills. Then we’ll be able to make better judgements. Right now, it’s too early to predict.
We’re simply not in a position to know how good either Clarkson or Russell will be defensively next season, and we probably won’t know until the 30- or 40 game mark.
With Luke Walton as the new HC and an entirely new staff, things could be vastly different…on both sides of the ball.
Of course, only time will tell.
Craig W. says
Mid-Wilshire,
I agree with you. My only observation is that Russell’s lateral movement is suspect and that is not likely to change. That is kind of a critical facet of defense and I would therefore rate his possible ceiling at ‘average’ – much like Magic Johnson’s. The only possible compensation would be very quick hands, like World Peace – and I didn’t see a lot of evidence of that in his rookie year. IMO, another reason not to play Russell at the 2, where he will have to guard the best 1-2-3, most likely.
As far as Clarkson goes, IMO a coach has to put a bug in his ear. He seems to have the talent.
As to how they both would work together, we really have to give the new coaching staff a year to see where we are.
Anonymous says
Per ESPN: ‘Ingram probably will go either No. 1 or No. 2 in the draft. Interestingly, one NBA exec said his real future in the NBA isn’t as a forward. It’s as a shooting guard.,
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Barnes at the Three and Ingram at the Two.
24hrx. says
Luuuke will have a great insight into whether or not the Lakers should throw max-money at H.Barnes.
But he does seem to check off a lot of positive boxes: He’ll know the system already, has championship experience, plays tenacious D, scores from everywhere, still improving at only 23 – he is their 5th option most of the time – with an increased usage-rate, what’s to say he doesn’t make a Butler-esque leap into a a great 2-way wing player. Quibbling about whether H.Barnes is “near max” or “full max” is nickle-diming BS franchises like OKC does.
Also, Ingram is a Shooting Guard, right now at least. (H.Barnes has almost 30 pounds of muscle on him.)
A very realistic FA success should leave the Lakers rotation beginning with:
1. Russell
2. B.Ingram
3. H.Barnes ($20M)
4. Randle
5. Whiteside ($25M)
6. Clarkson (6th Man of the year candidate.)
7. Nance
Regarding Whiteside:
Defence wins championships and Rebounding is good Defence on either end of the court.
Self-proclaimed “Count Blockula” (Whiteside) is a maturity risk, but the upside is 100% worth it.
Between him and Randle, the boards will be a nightly blood bath.
Robert says
Speaking of break out years: This is going to be a major challenge for Luke. All of our youngsters – DAR, Clarkson, and Randal will be looking to break out. Certainly – our new draft pick will feel that he is a crowned prince. Add a scoring FA or two and wow – lots of egos to satisfy. First move towards success in this area: Get rid of Williams and Young.
R says
Robert I don’t even know why Saggy P is still even on the roster. Maybe to give Luke the courtesy of swinging the axe? Or, is there a CBA date after which a player can be stretched waived or whatever (just make him gone).
Robert says
R I have been wondering why Williams and Young were on the roster since the day they signed their contracts. They are both non D playing, shot hoisting types, and then add in Young’s additional antics and it is a real head scratcher. The FO might be still hoping to get something for them which is comical. At this point you would have to give up a pick to get someone to take Young’s contract and Williams is only tradable to someone who needs instant offense late in the season. Since we did not do that last year – we might not be able to deal him either. Perhaps we simply cut them and eat the salary. Does not help us on the cap, but does help us on the floor. Then someone picks them up and gives us minor cap relief. This has baffled me all year (2 years in Young’s case).
LKK says
Robert…
Agree that Luke has a big challenge molding a young team and getting them all on the same page. Hopefully, the qualities that many have cited as the reasons for his coaching success thus far will continue to serve him well. His communication skills and ability to get these young guys to buy into hard work, sacrifice and team success will be tested as the team goes through growing pains.
Michael H says
I’m not quite understanding the call to bring Clarkson off the bench. He has shown steady improvement since coming in. And he measures up well to other guys that were the same age like Butler and Thompson. And they didn’t have to play through the Kobe farewell tour. By the way Clay was considered a defensive liability his first few years as well. Actually not many young guys are very good on defense their first few years.
It’s interesting to me that some of the players people want to sign to replace him are actually rated lower on some of the free agent rankings out there. I think the team and the league seem to have a higher opinion of Clarkson then some fans. Clarkson has the drive and work ethic and a huge chip on his shoulder. Those are the intangibles that often separate the good from the great. I think he starts this year and we will have a better idea after the season. I have no doubt that he will be a 20 pt a game guy, he averaged 15 playing in the circus last year. I’m more interested in if he can learn to be a decent team defender. Hopefully we will see some improvement there.
Dom says
Defense is coaching (system and technique. Steals and shot blocks are by products of athleticism. DAR once taught proper technique and how to operate within the team scheme will be fine. Much like rebounding is about effort (want to) and position (blocking out). Excellent defense is about effort. GS’s team is effective defensively because they all buy into the scheme the team is running. I expect much the same to happen with the Lakers next year. Offensively I expect spacing, top and corner 3’s and high screen and roll. This should allow Randle to drive and pull the opposing center away from the basket. I dont see Derozan being effect and a 2 given the fact he is shooting less than one 3 a game in the play offs. A bad fit if you ask me. Pump the breaks, lets get the coaching staff, system and philosophy learned this coming year. Hold onto next years top 3 protected. Get a Batum or Barnes, I like Fornier, Igram and the current core. I Noah type or Horford for veteran presence would thrill me. I know this will take at least a year so my expectations are not as high as others
Clay Bertrand says
Mid-Wilshire–KILLIN IT today imo!!!!……I agree with a lot of your posts today bro!!!!! New Coach, New System, No Kobe—-we gotta let this play out. I am not judging our back court’s defensive prowess on last season’s distorted sample size. The team’s D was horrendous all the way around and I expect improvement under Walton with No Kobe double standard and everyone held accountable.
rr, signin a 5 and playing the young guys—TOTALLY AGREE man……I’m not a DeRozan fan myself and feel that these guys need some time with a new coach and NO KOBE to grow into the NBA game and show what they can really do.
Nik Kanaan, FAs for the next 3 seasons or so are going to get paid WELL BEYOND any of their talent levels compared to their levels of compensation at this time. Its inevitable that the owners will be unable to show financial restraint and even those players we may look at and say, “HE ISNT A MAX GUY” will likely receive MULTIPLE max offers. Based on the salary to talent dynamic of the pre salary jump league pay structure, tons of players will appear to be “overpaid” and some perhaps vastly so. Get used to it my friend.
NBA spending will seem to be a nauseating waste of money to many who are used to the old salary structure. The fact is that some of the best players in the league (Paul George, Steph Curry, for example) will appear to be grossly undercompensated until they get a bite of the post TV Deal apple.
LordMo,
“JC is more like Rondo but taller…”
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I am almost speechless reading this comment. Are you referring to RAJON Rondo?????????!!!!! If so, I respectfully disagree sir. They may have some stats that on paper indicate some sort of similarity…..But that’s it. Personally, I see zero…….Nooo I actually see LESS THAN ZERO similarities between these guys and their games. I’m just a little curious as to how this odd comparison was arrived at.
RE THE COACHING STAFF: By the time Luke gets freed up from the Ws, I’m holding out hope that there will MAYBE be one or two decent high school coaches who won’t have been already hired by every other NBA team who is filling out their new coaching staffs!!!!!!!!!! The best staffs are being put together as we speak. Shaw is our only experienced potential assistant, and he wants Luke’s old job!!!!!! The W’s want Silas Jr. to take Luke’s old spot and the Rockets could be looking to hire Silas Jr. as HC with Hollins as his lead assistant.
My concern is that without being in a position to proactively build our coaching staff because Luke is still w the Ws, the quality of the staff could turn out to be just weak leftovers. We need ACTUAL COACHES to work with and teach our young guys. Not just a bunch of old former NBA players who aren’t developmental guys. Hopefully, Luke has some people in mind that have actual interest and are good NBA coaches.
LordMo says
@Clay
From the official NBA Scouting report on Clarkson…. seems dead on to me.
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Basically, we all know the story. The Lakers really wanted to trade DAR for Cousins did not happen and we got stuck with the kid. So now you have 2 PG’s you have to develop.
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20150625/lakers-pass-on-acquiring-demarcus-cousins-from-sacramento
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25227495/report-lakers-would-trade-dangelo-russell-tomorrow-for-demarcus-cousins
There is nothing in JC’s game that says SG but the kid is a gamer. I’m sure he agreed to give it a try anyway to improve his marketability.
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Key statistics: 17.5 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 3.4 apg, 1.1 spg, 2.6 tpg, 35.1 mpg, .447 FG, .281 3PT, .831 FT
Strengths
Good size for a point guard
Has ability to slash into the paint
Good athlete
Can finish at the rim
Gets to the free-throw line a lot
Good free-throw shooter
Weaknesses
Has to get bigger and stronger
Has to improve perimeter shot
Has to cut down on turnovers
A Horse with no name says
As the first and one of the most vociferous Clarkson boosters on this site (under my previous handle, since retired), it might appear that my estimation of his talent has diminished, as I am advocating a sixth man/third guard role for him rather than remaining a starter. The truth is that I am still very high on him, but there are factors that beyond talent that warrant a role change. The first is size: Clarkson is undersized to play the 2 for a contending team. He is overmatched against the likes of Rodney Hood, Klay Thompson or Jimmy Butler–to give a few examples. Players with positional size advantages are able exploit them at both ends of the court. Smaller players can have a quickness advantage against bigger players, but this advantage only works on the offensive end–they are usually one way players. If we can agree that defense is Clarkson’s greatest weakness, we can surmise that being tasked with defending bigger players isn’t likely to work out–better scheme and tutleage not withstanding.
In a recent radio interview, when talking about team needs, Mitch mentioned “more size in the backcourt.” I suspect Mitch is thinking about the issues I am raising here; it has nothing to do with Clarkson’s athletic gifts–which are considerable. I’m sure I’m in the minority, but I think Clarkson’s best position could be point guard; a Westbrook lite attacking, scoring point that uses his size and athletic talent to bully other point guards. If the lakers were to acquire a big two, they would have a very big backcourt with Russell as the other guard. Moving Clarkson to the third guard role would put the ball in his hands when Russell is out, allowing him to be that attacking point, and lead the second unit. The second concern I have with Clarkson as a starter is his streaky 3 point shot; which is erratic because of his forehead release and over reliance on his legs to launch his shot. If he could repair his mechanics then this might change, but I’m not sold on Tracy Murray as a shooting coach.
GEMMOL LEWIS says
@horse with no name……. you are wrong Mitch said he love his backcourt, he wanted to upgrade his front court, meaning area with SF, PF and C and since he like Randle, we know he specifically mean SF and C
It is crazy what everyone writing Clarkson is Lakers best player at the moment, the most consistent, which Lou and every other veteran including Kobe admitted…..he can score at will better than anyone on the team with a drive or a shot……before his ankles was hurt, his shooting percentage was much higher……his defense was his only weakness, he did not go for much blocks, unless you block him, and most of his steals come from someone passing the ball to the person he guarding, which means he do not stick his hands out to steal the ball from you and instead only use his length to guard the other player……….Clarkson 6’4 or 6’5 depends on where you get your info, his draft combine numbers put him faster than Westbrook when westbrook was a rookie and he jump higher, not by much……
This was Clarkson weakness coming into the NBA
Weaknesses: Struggled shooting from the outside this past season, only shot 28.1% from 3PT range … Move to the point was not a flawless transition, struggled running the team and not a natural distributor … Did not end the season strongly when his team was fighting for a possible NCAA tournament spot, shot under 40% from the field in 8 of his last 9 games … Going to his left is not a strong suit, needs work on his off-hand … Committed a lot of turnovers, his assist to turnover ratio is not ideal for a PG prospect … His defensive awareness is still in raw stages, despite his physical ability and athletic awareness, was not statistically efficient on that end of the floor … Still needs to add strength, has trouble with physical defense which can affect him near the rim … Despite his ability to drive and penetrate, was not the most prolific finisher close to the basket … Shot selection can use some work, which is where being streaky can work against him … Still a bit of a hitch in his shot, needs to iron out his mechanics … Left hand needs work, gets into trouble when being forced to his weak side … With the ball in his hands so often at Missouri, there may be an adjustment to playing off of the ball, working as a cutter, though he certainly has an ability to improve in this aspect …
In my opinion he seem to fix all of weaknesses, so this shows how much of a hard worker he is, and if he still have this attitude then I can see his hard work beating out people with potential Dangelo, Randle, Ingram/Simmons……………
This was Clarkson Strengths coming into the NBA Draft
Strengths: Quick guard with good size who has displayed point guard ability … Ran point the majority of the time during his lone season at Missouri … Has a strong handle and displays solid vision … Has the ability to post up smaller players and still has quickness to create off of the dribble … Athleticism also allows him to take advantage of bigger defenders, can shoot over them off of the bounce or take them to the basket … Can score from all three levels and is able to create his own offense … Gets low on both ends of the court, moves quite fluidly … His lateral quickness and size gives him potential as a defender, could be versatile guarding the perimeter … Excels at pulling up off of the dribble, giving him the potential to develop a floater as well as spot up ability … Got to the foul line fairly often, shooting 83.1% from the stripe, which would lead many to believe he has a lot of potential from midrange … Has displayed some outside shooting ability. He can be streaky in a good way at times … Used to playing big minutes, and is in excellent condition … Really good body control, use it to create space for opportunities and finishes well around the basket… Decent rebounder given his position, aggressive around the ball … Provides versatility at the guard spot, size and length to defend multiple positions
he still have all these strengths, anyone who see different, just never really like Clarkson game in the first place……when he at PG or SG his speed give him an advantage over everyone, and since he taller than avg PG, his height gives them problems…..Clarkson is a match up problem for anyone who play PG or SG, he taller than 90 percent of NBA PG and faster than all of NBA SG……anyone who think he a 6 man is either crazy or really do not like the guy game cause it do not seem flashy