The Warriors look to be well on their way to their 2nd NBA championship in as many seasons. Their combination of offensive firepower, excellent defense, positional versatility, and top level coaching are the marvel of the league and have teams scrambling to try and replicate a formula which may not even be replicable.
Roughly 30 years ago, the Lakers were a team very much like this season’s Warriors. If not so much in style, but in aesthetics. Explosive in the open court and precise in the half court, the Showtime Lakers ran roughshod over the league for an entire decade. They went to 8 Finals in the 1980’s and captured 5 titles in the process. I think teams would have tried to play like them, but it just didn’t even seem possible. No one had the horses.
These two teams are linked by the Thompson family. In the middle of the 1987 season, the Lakers traded for Mychal Thompson. The former 1978 #1 overall pick of the Trailblazers, Thompson was brought in to be the Lakers’ back up C and 3rd big man. Mychal did his job, helping the ’87 Lakers defeat the Celtics in the rubber match of their 3 NBA Finals match ups.
Mychal’s son, Klay, is now the starting SG for the Warriors. Drafted with the 11th pick in the 2011 draft, Klay has outperformed his draft slot and become one of the best two-way wings in the league. In a bit of a role reversal from his dad, Klay was famously not traded two seasons ago for Kevin Love. Now Klay’s Warrior’s are on the verge of beating Love’s Cavs in the Finals for the 2nd straight year.
So, the 2015 and 2016 Warriors are likely to be back to back champs. The 1987 and 1988 Lakers were back to back champs. In the post-game presser following the Warriors’ game 2 victory, Draymond Green was asked about where these Warriors ranked in the pantheon on all-time teams. Green, diplomatic, said we’d never know if his Dubs would beat teams like Jordan’s Bulls or the Showtime Lakers.
Klay, never shy of taking a shot, lined up his dad’s former team in his crosshairs and said with a smirk and a chuckle, “we’d beat the Showtime Lakers.”
Well, then.
I’ve always been of the same mindset Draymond has. The league has changed too much to compare players in ways beyond trivial barroom arguments. Forget, then, comparing entire teams. There’s simply no good way to do it.
If you think that’s going to stop me, though, you’re wrong. Thanks, Klay!
Now, for some quick ground rules: I’m only going to look at guys from the ’87 and ’88 Lakers and from the ’15 and ’16 Warriors. Those are teams (and in the Warriors’ case, presumed) who won back to back. So, sorry Norm Nixon, Silk, McAdoo, and other great players who were on earlier versions of the Showtime teams.
Second, since there have been so many rule changes, I’m going to try and discuss each team’s strengths within the context of the rules they played under (think about illegal defense rules more than the hand check rule or the advent of “verticality” – though those are important too).
With that, if you’re still reading, let’s get to it.
Guards
The best part of the match up between Magic and Steph is that neither would be able to guard the other, so they won’t. Steph’s jitterbug handle and ability to explode in and out of jumpstops to get off his jumper would be too much to handle for Magic. Meanwhile, Magic’s superior size and post up game would absolutely bury Steph inside of 15 feet.
So, both teams would be better off cross-matching by putting Byron on Steph and Klay on Magic. While I hate to say this, the slight edge here might go towards the Warriors. Yes, I think Magic would still mostly have his way with Klay. Klay offers very good size — a la Pippen in 1991 — but we’re also talking about absolute PRIME Magic Johnson here. This version still had great burst off the dribble, could hit the outside shot and would punish in the post. He won the league and Finals MVP in 1987.
As for Byron guarding Steph, well…talk about a match up problem, here it is. Byron was often tasked with chasing the smaller PG’s around defensively, so this is nothing too new for him. Zeke, Danny Ainge/Dennis Johnson, Stockton, etc were all guys Byron had to guard. That said, none of those guys were the offensive threat Curry is. With Steph’s range and ability to penetrate, Byron was likely to get cooked more than hold his own and that’s no disrespect to Byron. Curry cooks everyone!
On the flip side, Magic guarding Klay would likely be a problem for the Lakers. Magic was a better team defender than on ball guy, so there is a chance his smarts and anticipation help when defending off the ball. There’s also a chance his strength and length allow him to fight through screens and get deflections. That said, Magic was simply not used to chasing off the ball and navigating screens the way he would have to when guarding Klay and that might lead to too many open threes.
As for Byron’s offense, his ability to run the floor and finish above the rim would be of real benefit in this match up. With the Warriors taking a lot of threes, there’s a real chance the Lakers’ uptempo style of play would allow for Byron to leak out and get some open court chances. His ability to hit spot up jumpers while also putting the ball on the floor against closeouts would be a bonus. Especially if the Warriors are helping in the post. That said, Steph is a good enough defender to stay in front of Byron off the dribble and track him well enough in transition. This doesn’t mean Byron would be neutralized, but I don’t see him turning a series.
Forwards
Let’s start with the two former Tarheels. James Worthy has the clear advantage over Harrison Barnes.
Yes, Barnes is good at defending bigger players and can hold his own in the post. But Worthy’s turn and face game combined with a fantastic first step in either direction would be hard to handle. Look at how LeBron attacks Barnes from the mid-post and you’ll see the exact formula Worthy would use. Lots of jab-steps to create uncertainty and then explosive drives to the rim. If Barnes backs off, Worthy can also hit the 16 foot jumper well enough to give him fits.
On the other end Worthy might have some trouble staying with Barnes on the wing, but with his good size, length, and smarts he likely holds his own well. Worthy also likely eliminates Barnes’ ability to post up as a release valve option. Barnes does have the advantage as a floor spacer and he could hurt Worthy if the latter is too slow to close out to the arc — especially in the corner. I think the Lakers live with this match up.
At PF, as much as I love A.C. Green, I think Draymond controls this match up much the same way Worthy controls his. I think Draymond handles A.C. around the basket defensively and then spaces him out on the other end with his jumper and off the dribble work. I also think A.C. would have problems helping and recovering to Draymnd in the P&R which then sets off a bunch of other problems. Draymond’s passing is also important, though I do believe A.C. could hold his own enough in the post where some of the actions the Warriors run off that wouldn’t be as effective.
I do think A.C. could do well hitting the mid-range jumpers he’d be afforded and when attacking the offensive glass. Green had a knack for outworking his opponents and even high-motor players like Draymond can be susceptible to this — especially if his main focus is on being a help defender.
Center
Kareem may not have been at the height of his powers, but his advantages over Bogut are still very real. Bogut’s best assets as a defender are in his ability to protect the rim and his instincts as a team defender. Kareem, though, would be content to battle for position to the 12-15 foot range and just shoot skyhooks until the help came. Kareem would also be more than happy to clean up on the offensive glass should Bogut over help defensively. On the other end, Bogut isn’t the type of forceful offensive rebounder who might give Kareem a lot of problems with either excessive bulk or supreme foot speed.
Offensively, Bogut isn’t much of a threat, though he is a good passer and a threat to catch lobs. Kareem would have issues defending in space and my guess is the Warriors would try to exploit that via P&R’s. Whether Kareem would have enough mobility to play in these actions would remain to be seen, so I think the Lakers would have to live with him playing back below the pick and hope the guard could get over the top of picks.
All in all, how Kareem was handled on both ends of the floor might be the most interesting subplot of the series. The Warriors have never faced a player like him and he’d likely score at will against single coverage. However, on the other end of the floor, while he could still protect the rim, it’s hard to see him closing out on shooters or holding his own on switches. Maybe in 1980, but not nearly a decade later.
The Benches
We’re looking at Michael Cooper, Kurt Rambis, Thompson, and (maybe) Wes Matthews vs. Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston, Festus Ezeli, Mo Speights, and Leandro Barbosa.
From a numbers standpoint, the Warriors have the edge. Their depth truly is fantastic and they can come at you in waves. They also have the higher ceiling players as three of those guys (Iggy, Livingston, and Festus) could step in as starters on a lot of teams around today’s NBA and do well. They also have enough variety to turn to a different option within the group should the match ups dictate. For example, if they need more scoring punch and can get by with lesser defense vs. an opponent’s lineup, Speights and Barbosa might get minutes over Ezeli or Livingston.
On the Lakers side, though he was a reserve, there are few players more important than Cooper. Cooper was defensive player of the year in the 1986-87 season. He would likely be used at various times against Steph and Klay, and would likely be in the game whenever the Warriors went small with their “Death Lineup”. His ability to switch onto most of the Warriors’ perimeter players and hold his own defensively while also being a secondary ball handler and three point threat offensively makes him an ideal player vs. this team.
For the Warriors, of course, Iguodala offers a similar skill set to Cooper and would also be a key player. His ability to guard Magic or Worthy would be incredibly valuable, especially when either player goes to the mid-post. His scoring would be a bonus, but his ability to facilitate — especially if guarded by a slower, less natural perimeter defender, would be a big advantage for the Warriors. He can drive, hit the jumper, and attack the glass with proficiency. He would be a problem (as he’s shown in both the Warriors’ deep playoff runs).
**
Ultimately, I think a game or series between these teams really would come down to what rules they played under. In a hand-check heavy game with the old illegal defense rule, the Lakers have some distinct advantages. They could manufacture spacing simply by positioning players above the 3 point line (even if they weren’t a threat to shoot), which would open up driving lanes and post up chances.
They could then maximize match up advantages in the post with Kareem, Worthy, and Magic. Because the illegal D rule did not allow soft/halfway doubles, the Lakers could then score in single coverage or force the type of hard doubles which would open up ball movement to shooters who, while not great, were capable of hitting open shots. Meanwhile, in the open court, the Showtime Lakers were the best fastbreaking team ever and would be difficult to slow when given real open court chances.
The Warriors would still have some things to fall back on, of course. Steph and Klay’s shooting is still next level. Draymond’s versatility isn’t erased under these rules. Livingston’s strong post play only improves under these rules. Even players like Barbosa or Barnes have certain aspects of their games (namely, their ability to straight line drive) which are aided by these rules, though the hand checking might negate some of those advantages.
But, if the game were played under today’s rules, then is when matchup starts to tilt in the Warriors’ direction. They could switch any type of screen and then play quasi zone defenses to help against any disadvantaged defender in the post. Without a hand check on the perimeter and less physical play in general allowed, the Warriors then have more freedom to move around the wing and within the half court to get shots behind the arc. With better athletes overall, their defense becomes even stiffer due to their ability to rotate within their scheme and challenge shots all over the floor.
Further, it’s hard to truly quantify how much their 3 point shooting would be an advantage. With shooting all over the floor and the Lakers not used to having to defend that shot at the volume the Warriors would attempt them, the Warriors would likely hold a significant scoring edge from distance. As we’ve seen during their two seasons under Kerr, the 3>2 formula can be devastating when trying keep games close or even hold them off in late game situations when no lead seems safe.
However, lets not forget these Lakers are an all-time great team for a reason. As we just saw in the Western Conference Finals, the Warriors struggled with the Thunder’s superior size and ability to contest shots both on the perimeter and at the rim. The Lakers’ starters were a 6’4″ Scott, three 6’9″ players (Magic, Worthy, Green), and a 7’2″ Kareem. Add to that their key bench players were Cooper (6’6″), Rambis (6’9″), and Thompson (6’10”). Not a small guy amongst this group.
This isn’t to say the Warriors couldn’t use their quickness and athleticism advantages, but with so much size the Lakers would be able to attack the offensive glass, switch a lot of the screen actions the Warriors depend on, and not have to worry about the secondary post up actions the Warriors can often go to when teams get in scramble mode defensively. The Lakers were never an elite defensive team, but they were 7th and 9th in Defensive Rating their back to back championship seasons. And as we saw with his Heat and Knicks teams, Pat Riley knew how to build a defense.
So, who ultimately wins in a 7 game series. I’ll go with the homer pick and say the Lakers. But, honestly, if nothing else this exercise only reinforced the idea to me that these Warriors belong in the conversation with some of the best teams ever. Which is all anyone who plays this game could really hope for.
harold says
Throw a hard party in LA and we win because we have the Iron Virgin.
LT Mitchell says
In today’s game, Magic, Worthy and AC Green would be PF’s, with the ability to play center in small ball lineups. Add in Kareem, Thompson and Rambis, and the size advantage would be so ridiculous that I would guess that Riley would bench AC Green for a guard. The Lakers would still have a huge size advantage, but with another guard, they would be much more versatile.
Curry vs Byron – Curry wins this matchup, but I don’t think Curry would dominate. Curry would have to expend plenty of energy chasing Byron around, and would have a difficult time contesting a Byron jumper.
Klay vs Cooper – Klay struggled against Andre Robertson, who is a solid defender, but not on Cooper’s level (yet). Klay wins this matchup but Cooper would give Klay all sorts of trouble. I think Klay would have a couple huge games, but would struggle in the series overall, similar to the Thunder series.
Barnes vs Magic – Magic would destroy Barnes. Kerr would have to use Iggy for this matchup, but Magic wins this matchup handily either way.
Draymond vs Worthy – Draymond better be hitting his 3’s because anything inside the 3 point line will be Worthy’s domain. As good of a defender as Draymond is, one on one, he would be helpless against Worthy. Worthy has the speed, height and skill advantage over Draymond.
Bogut vs Kareem – Pure domination by Kareem.
Final Result – I think with today’s rules, Showtime wins in 7. With 80’s rules, Showtime wins in 5.
TempleOfJamesWorthy says
This would be a very hard matchup to pick. The game has changed so much in 30 years that it is difficult to project how the matchups would play out.
There are three major changes to NBA players (in addition to rules changes and allowed defensive tactics) which I think make this comparison tough:
1) The bulk of modern players — the 1988 version of Steph Curry would have been 6’0″-160 lbs. Steph is 6’3″ – 195 lbs and is considered somewhat undersized compared to the opponents he faces. When you watch old games on TV, most players were beanpoles with a few who used weights and bulked up. Nowadays, nearly every player is an Adonis of thick hard muscle. I think this bulk is part of the reason teams like the Warriors can play small lineups. In the 1980s, the Denver Nuggets would try 6’7″-195 Bill Hanzlik against Kareem or Olajuwon and get torched. In 2016, Draymond Green can handle a 6’11” center (at least for short periods of time).
2) The acrobatics of modern players — One thing I’ve noticed in watching old film is players used to play much more linearly and in control. A typical lay-up would have a player driving in a straight line, jumping straight up, and landing on both feet. Sure, sometimes there were extreme plays, but not often. Today, players routinely changed directions at the last second, take off on the “wrong” foot, and land sprawled out beyond the endline. I think this speaks to how much tougher it is to get a shot off in the modern NBA, and I don’t know how well players of the past would adapt. Which leads to…
3) The defensive intensity of the modern NBA — Yes, they’ve cut down on some of the grabbing and clutching that ruined the game from 1990-2005. But modern players still play defense with much more regular intensity and with much more sophistication than in earlier eras. Yes, when the game was on the line, teams of all eras cranked up their defense. But most teams in most games played simple man-to-man conceding outside shots for 75% of most games.
My heart says my favorite Showtime Lakers would prevail, but the 2016 Warriors are so fast, so versatile, and shoot and defend so well, that it would not surprise me if they triumphed in this hypothetical matchup. It’s nice to see that teams of such caliber still play for NBA championships.
Chris J says
I can’t imagine the Warriors slowing down Magic and Thompson in the pick and roll, under either set of rules. Cap would score at will, as would Worthy.
And not to echo Barkley or any of the “the NBA was better in my day” crew, but as great a shooter as Curry is, he would have been slowed drastically under the older rules. The time machine matchup I’dlike to see more than 87-88 Lakers vs. today’s Warriors would be today’s Warriors taking on the 1993-94 Knicks. It would be fascinating to see what that hand checking, hip throwing, elbow-driven defense guys like Starks and Harper and Oakley and Mason played would have done to Golden State.
KenOak says
Great article Darius! My heart says Showtime Lakers completely dominate the Warriors and my head says they win in 7.
Magic-
I can’t see any Warriors player checking prime Magic Johnson in the post. He was Lebron James with more post moves than 90% of every NBA player who ever lived. At the other end of the floor he would have to guard Klay, and while I don’t think he would have any issues with on-ball defense…I think he would have a tough time running through screen after screen. Still an easy matchup win for Magic.
Byron-
He would get torched by Curry. However, would it be as bad as it seems at first glance? He did guard one of the best small guards of all time in Thomas. Still think Curry wins this match up handily.
Worthy vs. Green/Barnes
As Darius said -> Draymond better hit all his threes because Big Game James would rip his soul out. Nuff’ said.
A.C. vs. Green/Barnes
A.C. was a serviceable player, but I think that Draymond would likely win this matchup handily as well. It might be worth it for the Lakers to bring Cooper in instead and have Worthy matchup with Draymond.
Kareem versus anyone.
Kareem was near 40 years old during these years and alas at 40 years old…he would friggen dominate anyone that GS tried to guard him with. Not even close. Bogut would be toast. Ezeli would be toast. Blah blah blah, doesn’t matter. Toast.
Finally. Fast break. There’s a reason that Lakers team was called ‘Showtime.’
KenOak says
Sorry to double post. Here’s a better question really. Could this Warriors team even beat the best Kobe/Shaq team? I mean would Curry be able to go next level offense against Kobe’s prime defense? How would they even begin to stop Shaq?
Craig W. says
Why not compare with the 2nd 3peat Bulls?
Brian says
Nice breakdown. It would be a very, very close matchup, with diametrically opposed strengths and weaknesses. It really would be fascinating.
One other thing weighing in the Lakers favor would be the strength of their post game against the weakness of the Warriors’ post defense. As the NBA has become more of a perimeter league and gone away from post play, defending in the post has become a lost art. As you pointed out, in Magic, Worthy, and Kareem the Lakers had 3 superior post scorers/passers, and under the old illegal defense rules the Warriors would have been at a significant disadvantage, as none of their players have any significant post defense skills – Dray and Bogut might seem like decent post defenders, but I think that’s mainly because they never have to face any decent post scorers.
The LOD would be a fun matchup to try and counter. The Lakers would clearly move Magic to point forward and bring in Coop, and then slide Worthy to the 4. The question then is whether they would go with Rambis/AC at the 5 or try to punish GS with Thompson, who was fairly agile for a big man.
And
DonFord says
Love the analysis of Cooper (my favorite player back then).
His D would give a real challenge to both Klay & Curry.
Also, Coop’s 3pt% that year was 39% … imagine him playing in current style with more reps on the shot and more space to shoot it in…
Fun topic for a post … was hoping for it but didn’t expect it, love it Darius.
Marlon Blodgett says
The older generation team, Mental toughness,Balls out effort,superior talent and intelligence,but mostly the pure mean streak of old school men vs new school (cary the ball running backs to get open travelers) The lakers would really bloody the new generations noses badly, and wouldn’t stop till it was mercifully over.
david h says
darius: that was fun. to date, warriors for sure are the 2nd best showtime team in the history of the nba. in a win time comparison, showtime lakers hands down. lest not forget coach riley would be at the helm at any and all mismatches showtime lakers can muster up and will prevail in a seven game series due to size, speed and strength. for sure, that was tongue in cheek by mychal’s son, klay. brings tears to one’s eyes when teeth engage tongue. ouch!
Go lakers
pat oslon says
Lakers would win in 6-7 games.
PurpleBlood says
Great article Darius
It´d be, to say the very least, sublime to be able to witness a 7 game series between these two squads; reminds of a line in the film Annie Hall:
`Boy, if life were only like this.´
That´s kinda how D´s write up makes me feel 🙂
& for the record, Magic and the fellas would have taken them in 6 or 7!! (all due respect to this great Warriors team)
BigCitySid says
– Well no surprise here.Very predictable answers.
Alex says
Byron and Coop would be as good defending the Splash brothers as anyone today, and would force them to work on defense as well. Iggy/Barnes and Green would be no match for Magic and Worthy on either end of the court, with a big size, scoring and rebounding advantage for the Lakers. But to me, KAJ is the difference. Bogut/Spreights/Ezili are not Olajuwon/Malone/Parish but 48 minutes of backup center that Kareem or Mychal would feast on. And no comparison to the 2001 Lakers – Shaq alone would beat them, even after missing 18 of 36 (3x6x2) free throws in the first half, as all three of their C’s would have fouled out. Besides, one of their centers would have developed an injury while sleeping the night before playing Shaq (remember Victor Alexander?! ;)). By the 4th quarter, even the GSW towel boy would have been sent to the showers by the refs, or the hospital for taking a Shaq charge.
KenOak says
@BigCitySid-
– Well no surprise here.Very predictable answers.
A very predictable post. Perhaps a little substance with your remark? 🙂
Chris says
Another great article, Darius!
Shaq said the 00-01 Lakers would win as well.
What are your thoughts?
I think this particular Laker team has an advantage over the discussed Showtime Laker teams, therefore, this years Dubs, regardless of rules!
The 00-01 Lakers SWEPT Blazers, Kings, and Spurs (ALL 50 win teams), and if not for some rust, would have swept 76ers.
Shaq was just an absolute monster during those playoffs, and I didnt even mention Kobe and the rest of that team!
Shaq/Kobe Lakers in 6
Bruce says
COOPER: “Steph is a great player. But I do think I’d have bothered him with my length and my quickness.
“Being too physical on [a] great player tends to cause you problems, because sometimes they need that little bit of something extra to really get them going. Steph’s a little different in that he can handle the physicality. But he really likes to get a little space before he shoots. So knocking him down would’ve been the first plan of attack with him. Absolutely. The first time he went to the basket, I’d put him down. First time. Because you always try to make your first foul to send a message. After that, anything else I could’ve done to throw him off, I’d have tried that too.
“I’d probably say some stuff to him, but I call it ‘verbal communication,’ not s— talking or trash talking. And sometimes ‘verbal communication’ does throw a player off. The way I handled Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, George Gervin, guys like that — I’d talk a little bit till I saw what they had [that night].
@dgo500 says
BOy how we forget Showtime had explosive players LIKE? BIG GAME JAMES TRIPLE double every game against these warriors 40 15 10 coughing THe CAPTAIN he could shot a jumper free throws post up catch Lobs at 40 yrs old 20 and 20 plus Pat Riley would have started Coop and Byron had Magic on Barnes Worthy on Draymond THE CAPTAIN in middle
J C says
Klay was just teasing his dad Mical.
Conversations like this are so purely hypothetical they remind me of debate about who would prevail in battle: Batman or Superman?
Superman, obviously.
matt says
Coaching is a key ingredient, i don’t think the coaches now have to work as hard as the 80s coaches did, with the physical play involved. That being said pat riley would out coach kerr
matt says
Didn’t showtime lakers win 3 titles. Warriors haven’t won 2 yet.
This is why I wanted the thunder to beat them, i hate this stuff
Here’s a statement: warriors would not have made the playoffs in the late 80s
teamn says
Coop is the key for me. That was my initial thought the day after Klay said this and I still think that. Would be a fun series, no doubt.
Anonymous says
http://nypost.com/2016/06/07/phil-jacksons-lakers-gloat-i-warned-you-about-porzingis/
A Horse With No Name says
Very nice write up, Darius. Very fair analysis. I think the warriors series with OKC is instructive; the 80’s lakers beats the Thunder imo, and in turn would beat the warriors.
Chris J says
Didn’t showtime lakers win 3 titles.
———–
Try five. “Showtime” began and ended with Magic Johnson.
That said, be careful on that logic since we don’t know how many rings Steph & Co. will take home when it’s all said and done. I used to love to use the “Who has five rings?” argument to shoot down the hordes of spoon-fed Jordan acolytes in the early 90s, but I eventually lost my ability to play that card.
Chris J says
Sorry to double post, but as to Phil’s latest efforts to stir the pot, I call bulls–t.
“Watching him in the summer league, we thought he was really competitive, that’s what we wanted to see in the tapes study we did,’’ Jackson added.
Oh, really? You learned in July — which is when all NBA Summer Leagues are held — that your pick was a winner? So how does that relate to this article’s claim that Phil “knew” something about Porzingis when the draft was held last June?
Only a revisionist would suggest that if that draft were replayed, knowing what people knew then, that Towns, Russell and Okafor would not have gone 1, 2 and 3, but perhaps not necessarily in that order. Had the Knicks been picking ahead of the Lakers last summer, odds are Porzingis may well have landed in L.A. This is just Phil trying to tell everyone how much smarter he believes he is compared to everyone else.
Craig W. says
Counting titles doesn’t ever tell the entire story. That is one problem with being a total numbers person. The rules in play and the CBA in each era have enormous impact on team construction. These conversations are somewhat fun, but memory often blurs out problems/advantages and we are so wrapped up in a 24/7 analysis of each and every play of a series today.
Example: The Celtics during their 60’s run were able to corner essentially an all-star team to play each and every night. Now this was because of superior front office, superior coaching, and available cash, but there was essentially no CBA. Remember it was Jerry West and Oscar Robertson who instigated essentially a strike during an all-star game that began to get players some actual rights in the mid-sixties.
The 80’s were trending toward the physicality that peaked with Riley and the Knicks in the 90’s, however, the players didn’t have the footwork sophistication introduced by the European players in the 00’s.
One of the reasons the Warriors are so successful is that some of the ego suppression to team goals that was a hallmark of the Lakers and Celtics in the 80’s is uniquely present in Golden State. The NBA made a concerted effort in the 80’s to emphasize the individual over the team and now it is very hard to get the same type of teamwork we saw then.
The Warriors have a very short window before the CBA destroys this team, so we should enjoy it while we can. Don’t try to emphasize the longevity of the 60’s Celtics, 80’s Celtics, or 80’s Lakers, because the CBA makes that type of dynasty practically impossible. Steph was injured just before his 1st big contract, or GS may well not have been able to pay Iguodala, or Livingston. Sort of like Robinson being injured in San Antonio and their drafting Tim Duncan – luck has to play in all these scenarios.
This is one reason I really don’t believe in ‘piling on’ Lebron James, and why I agree with Jerry West.
Fujitsu says
People who grew up playing with no 3 point line and physical defense could never beat a team shooting 35 3 pointers a game.
Today’s teams can’t even maintain defensive dicipline for more than a few minutes. Instinctively players try to protect the paint, which ends up giving wide open 3 pointers.
The other thing is that the Warriors can miss 10 bad 3s and nobody on the team gets upset, so they will always be in games until the 3 pointers start falling.
The game is different, the rules are different, teams from a different Era couldn’t compete, most wouldnt even today’s game basketball.
That’s why the old players are constantly complaining.
harold says
In all seriousness, for the Showtime Lakers to compete, I think we’d have to put them in today’s training regimen. The part that is ignored in today’s discussion of why players get injured is that the size of the players now are nothing like what they were back in the day. Although the league is not as big as it was during Shaq’s prime, it is still much bigger than Showtime, and matching them up will almost look like matching football players against track players. This is not taking into account the increased core training these guys do that don’t really show up in their physique, and from what I know, only Kareem did stuff like that partially due to his greater awareness of yoga and martial arts.
Offensively, I don’t think GSW has an answer to Kareem or Magic, as no amount of switching will protect them from those two. Draymond may be able to defend 1-5, but not a 5 like Kareem, and Magic can play offense 1-5 and will find a way no matter who is guarding him. Unfortunately, the Warriors have, as a team, 0.563 efg, while the Lakers had 0.530 efg, because they were a 20% 3p shooting team (Warriors are 40% from the 3). That will be the nutshell of this series, and since the Warriors have really not had 4 off-shooting nights in 7 games, this probably goes to the Warriors.
Sarge says
We already saw what happened when OKC played 80’s style defense on the Warriors. They won those games handily.
We also saw OKC get complacent in the final 3 games, and they lost..
Showtime, as well as Detroit, Boston and a lot of other teams would have defended the whole game. Defense back then was more disciplined and in shape and would’ve had an easy time with 1 dimensional teams.
As far as offense goes, Showtime could spread out the whole floor and score from everywhere, including 3 point land. Their offensive versatility would give the Warriors fits and cause frustrations and fouls. Draymond would be gone. We’d easily out score them at the free throw line and the paint.
Magic played smart and would attack all their weaknesses and put them in foul trouble. Curry would have to keep committing fouls or be scored upon with ease. Magic would post Curry and Thompson up at will and wear them down. Same with Barnes.
Magic would get doubled, Kareem would get doubled, Worthy would get doubled and thus draw multiple fouls against their help defense.
Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, AC Green and Mychal Thompson would all score at will from all that empty space. We wouldn’t need to shoot many 3’s.
Rambis would come in late and physically punish them to wear them down for the next games. By 3 and 4, the Warriors would be exhausted.
If OKC had complimentary players that could complete their rotations against Golden State, they would’ve won in 5. Golden State made the adjustments to take advantage of the weak defensive players on the perimeter in the last 3.
That bad defensive cover wouldn’t happen against the top teams of the 80’s. Defense was played with pride back then and isn’t an afterthought like today’s game.
The run and gun system will be short lived as a primary offense. Just like the run and shoot offense in the NFL. The basics of offense and defense in any sport will always win out in the long run.
Golden State broke records against a modern league that isn’t accustomed to it yet. But when defense catches up again, teams will have to win with complete fundamental basketball.
Anonymous says
You can’t compare the Lakers to a modern day team without considering that they would have modern day training and strategies.
But with that caveat, it’s not even close. The late 80’s Lakers weren’t just a better team, but they would destroy Golden State on matchups. They have nobody, NOBODY who could defend Magic even a bit. At 6’9″ and burly, no chance Iguodala would have any impact on him because, unlike Lebron, Magic doesn’t need to drive to have an impact. Magic could just throw passes over the smaller Iggy, or back him into the post. Also, Magic wouldn’t be defendable on the break.
Klay gets taken out of series not uncommonly, and by worse defenders than Cooper.
There’s not really anyone who could defend Worthy all that well, but Dray and Iggy could do an okay job between them.
Kareem would be undefendable with the skyhook.
Then you have Byron hitting open jumpers, AC battling on Green. I just don’t see it.
Golden State is not a historically great team. They have a historically great winning margin over a historically poor league, which is in a transition between eras. In 2 more years, the league will be probably strong again, but right now, you have Toronto in the ECF ?
You have OKC going up 3-1 over Golden State while giving big WCF minutes to Roberson, Dion Waiters, Enes Kanter and Steven Adams ? That reads more like WTF than WCF !
Nah, Roberson, Waiters and Kanter were guys who couldn’t hold on to teams or starting positions for good reasons. Their inclusion as significant players, who, but for a few bounces of the ball, would have upset Golden State is irrefutable evidence that the league is weak right now. That’s not a criticism on the league, it’s just that there are about 22-24 teams that are either rebuilding, too old, injured, or still too young. And about 6-8 that are actually in their primes.
LT Mitchell says
The true shooting percentage of both teams has less significance when one team ends up with ten to twenty more possessions from crashing the offensive boards. With a size advantage at every position, nobody in GS is going to stop the Lakers from gobbling up those offensive boards. If the Mosgov/Thompson front court from last years finals and Steven Adams/Ibaka front court gives GS fits, the Showtime bigs would have a field day in the paint.
Vince says
This is Pure Lunacy, and a Disgrace to Laker Lore. The Highly Over-rated Warriors along with Mr. Curry couldn’t beat ANY Laker Team. Shaq-Kobe; Kobe-Gasol; let alone the 1987 Group. It’s time for You All to stop riding Steph Curry’s and the Warriors Jock and making them out to be more Greater or Super than they are. In Fact even having this a stupid conversation is a travesty and waste of Time..Let’s get back to Real Sports Talk, Not Fantasy Filled Illusions or Wishful thinking….Laker Fan since 1972, from Philadelphia….Deal With That!
Chearn says
Actually, what the Warriors are accomplishing in their mini-run is analogous to what the Detroit Pistons Bad Boys achieved. The brand of basketball changed drastically when the Bad Boys brought their brand of bruising basketball to the league every team rushed to emulate their style. That pattern of modeling rosters based on paradigm anomalies is nothing new.
While Draymond Green admirably plays several positions and displays multiple skills for today’s NBA, he is no match for the ultimate multi-dimensional Magic Johnson. The Showtime Lakers were artistic mastery. With Magic’s half-court bounce passes to Scott and Worthy on the wings or the patented lob pass for the Coop-a-Loop, along with the shot from the sky by Kareem they were productive and creative while winning games.
In order for Warriors to win games, they have to take and make a significant percentage of their 3pt shots. Worthy, Green, Scott, Cooper was well capable of defending that shot or at least disrupting their form.
I absolutely enjoy Golden State, but Showtime wins the series with a broom.
Chearn says
Luke Walton’s childhood friend Richard Jefferson is having a throwback game as he attempts to garner a championship ring like his friend. Bragging rights are at stake.
Marlon Blodgett says
Is there any thoughts out there about our 32nd pick replacing and upgrading ( Sacre-Kelly-Brown-Black) ?. I think our front office has to hit it out with a gem here if possible, We need this Player to make the roster.
matt says
Dragen bender falling to 7th pick, denver, in some mock drafts,
matt says
I like guerschon yabusele at #32
What a turn around in the cavs warriors series
rubenowski says
So if Kevin Love is cleared for game 4, do you start him or play him off the bench???
matt says
He sales popcorn ….
Damian jones would be a steal at #32
matt says
I also like malcolm brogdon, even though he’s older and at a position we don’t need, he knows how to play as a team..
Also i think nick young should be evaluated, and if he seems cool kept on the team, he played well before byron,and he might thrive under a new coach, and his contract is gonna look reasonable this year, he might even play well and opt out next yeat
david h says
today’s analysis: this morning’s warriors vs in a landslide showtime lakers with one arm tied behind their backs…lol.
expecting a better effort, to say the least, friday vs them (there’s no place like home) cavs.
Go lakers
bleedpurplegold says
@matt: i am with you and the some…nick is one of the very few who can actually make some open shots from three, plus he will be allowed to take them without thinking twice about it with scott gone…he always thrived when a coach trusted him and his style of play…
matt says
The rules are hard to understand, but nba prospects have until june 15 to withdraw from the draft.
And Baldwin and labissier are among those who might withdraw
matt says
So much analysis in the nba world changes daily, and the only accurate analysis comes 10-20 years later
rubenowski says
The refs are letting curry and klay be a little roughed up. This suggests that during the playoffs, at least, the old school way of playing is allowed somewhat. Steph and Klay havent been able to play their game. If it weren’t for the role players, they’d probably be down 2-1 right now. I think the showtime Lakers have a significant advantage. They may not sweep them, but I think the Lakers win in 6 at the most.
harold says
yeah, looking at yesterday’s game, I reverse my ‘analysis’ and say that showtime wins 😛
Baylor Fan says
The Showtime Lakers had the biggest edge of all – Francis Dayle “Chick” Hearn calling their games.
Kareem would have even been a bigger problem for the Warriors than he was for teams in the ’80’s since they have never had to play against someone with his talents. The Warriors would have to spend a few games just learning how to defend his Sky Hooks.
Stearno says
Great article. Let’s not forget that on the Showtime Lakers, Worthy often guarded the two guard and Magic would guard the small forward. This allowed Worthy to get out on the break and Magic to use his rebounding ability to start the break. Worthy’s size and quickness could give K. Thompson fits and Magic could handle Barnes or Iggy. Also, the Lakers of the 80’s had their own death line-up with Cooper & Scott in the backcourt, Magic at Point Forward along with Worthy (interchangeable at the 3 & 4 since both were 6’9″ & 225) and M. Thompson at the 5. That line-up could guard the W’s better than the W’s could guard them due to lack of size & post defense. While the W’s could give the 80’s lakers some trouble if all their 3’s are falling, in a long series, the Lakers would wear them down. I like Showtime in 6 games, particularly under the old rules.
Donavan says
Sorry, you were up 3-1 and lost in the Finals. This entire thread is now garbage. Maybe try not to be so cocky next time you get there.