UPDATE: The deal is reportedly done. The amount being reported is $64 million over 4 years. We do not yet know if there are options in the deal or the structure of the contract (flat, raises each year, decreasing over time), but it’s all pretty firm now. My initial analysis is below. I will have more up soon.
**
The Lakers have a pretty big hole at the Center position. In the lead up to free agency, it was thought they might chase Hassan Whiteside hard and were even linked to Bismack Biyombo earlier today. It seems, though, they will go in a different direction:
Lakers in serious talks on the framework of a four-year, $65M deal with Timofey Mozgov, league sources tell @TheVertical.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 1, 2016
First, that’s a big number. It’s not HUGE — it’s basically the equivalent of a 4 year/$48 million deal under a $70 million cap — but it represents a major raise from what Mozgov made this past season in Cleveland ($4.9 million). It’s yet to be known whether the contract would be flat or have raises each season, but those are minor details that would be known should this deal actually get inked.
Enough about money, though.
Regarding fit, Mozgov has some traits which should bring value. He has excellent size and good length. He can protect the rim defensively. He can score some in the post, can set good screens, and can serve as a good finisher in the paint when catching the ball on the move. In other words, he’s not a total stiff and if playing in a style and role which plays to his strengths, I think he adds value.
The question is whether the Lakers would really be playing to his strengths with the current roster they have in place. Mozgov can run the floor, but it’s not what he’s best at. He’s not necessarily a plodder, but getting up and down the court quickly isn’t a strength. So, If the goal is to use him as a more mobile, better finishing Hibbert who isn’t looked to as someone who will need the ball, save for a few rim runs and when the lane opens up in the P&R, that’s one thing.
But if the goal is to incorporate him into a free flowing offensive attack, where he can be an active participant in an open court game, that’s unlikely to be successful. If you’re looking at him to fill the Bogut role from Golden State, even that type of projection is flawed since Mozgov is not the passer or release valve option Bogut can be at the top of the floor, picking out cutters and making reads and passes within motion heavy sets.
Defensively, Mozgov can also be schemed off the floor when teams go small since he’s much more comfortable hanging back in the P&R and not the type of big who can actively switch onto a guard and keep him contained. On the other end, he has the ability to score from the post, but in today’s NBA teams are willing to bet against offenses who rely on the efficiency of post ups beating them — even if it’s when a C is matched up with a PF or, in some cases, against a wing who gets switched onto him.
All in all, this would be the type of signing with some plusses, but also some pretty obvious minuses. We will analyze it more should the deal become finalized, but my gut reaction is that the deal, as reported, would not benefit the Lakers.
Mid Wilshire says
Perhaps what the Lakers have in mind is filling the center position by committee. Mozgov, after all, has never averaged more than 25 minutes per game. So, the 5 position might consist of the following (if we sign Mozgov):
Timofey Mozgov — 24 minutes
Tarik Black — 18 minutes
Iviza Zubac — 6 minutes
My biggest concern is the length of the contract. Four years is entirely too long for Mozgov IMO. As I mentioned in an earlier post, perhaps years 3 and 4 are at a team option. But who knows?
Mozgov could be a partial option. But this is not ideal. Maybe Zubac will develop quickly. One can always hope.
fern16 says
Ok, this is my new name here now lol. I think we need to wait until the details of the contract are out. Im sure the Lakers have an “escape” clause on that contract be a player or a team option. I figure he is going to be used the same way Bogut was used in GS. And we all new it was going to be a overpaying extravaganza with the rising cap. Im not surprised at all.Im glad the Lakers are moving on quickly.
fern16 says
Whiteside wasn’t going to come over. Noah looks like NY bound and is all beat up,Hordford is declining. It’s not a bad signing and with the rising cap salaries will go up. This is going to get uglyyy just wait. Im glad we are moving quickly.
Msway says
This is a solid pro looking for a new home,he is going to be setting big screens for a ton of shots,then crashing the boards and getting tip ins. On the defensive end he will match up much better against the 7 footers in the league than hibbert. but his real job is translating and teaching the kid until he is ready to take over, the big contract is to work into possible trade slots if something fit from sacramento. Now lets get some shooters and defenders,No head cases.
fern16 says
For me is as simple as this. Mozgov is better than Hibbert and Sacre put together. So yeah it’s an upgrade…
Clay Bertrand says
Mid Wilshire
We paid for a STARTING center. He should play the bulk of the minutes in that role. I hope he doesn’t though. Smh…… Zubac will be interesting to watch.
Clay Bertrand says
fern16
Out of 76 NBA Centers, Hibbert ranked 76th in NBA Offensive Real Plus/Minus. Mozgov though ranked 75th!!!!
So YEAH, he IS an improvement.
new rr says
Mid Wilshire
Perhaps. But even in this market, I wouldn’t have gone 4/64 if that is indeed the plan.
Clay Bertrand says
Bresnahan indicates that Shaw coaching Mozzy in Denver was a familiarity factor of sorts for the Lakers.
smokedaddy says
Actually, if you look at Zubac, he’s kind of like a Mozgov. Plays hard, real good size, good mobility tho cant jump, good scoring ability and a decent defender and decent rim protector. Hopefully, Luke was consulted on this and sees something he likes with regards to fitting into his offense. Regarding his stats this year, keep in mind that Thompson and Love were pretty much taking up the center minutes and Mosgov was at about 15 minutes a game. So his 6 pts 4 reb works out to about 18 and 12 per 48 min. I’m OK with it as centers with Mosgov’s game age well. Keep in mind we’ll have plenty of willing passers on the team and someone needs to finish. Also, unlike some of the other possibilities, seems like a good character, locker room presence type. Yes, this contract is pretty rich but truthfully, lacking Whiteside, I’d probably prefer Timofey over Biyombo or maybe Mahinmi. Will be a decent, average NBAor center who won’t pout or add to locker room issues
Clay Bertrand says
new rr Mid Wilshire
Terrible signing IMO if its 4/64. This is so far INSIDE the BOX its sad. Last night on Access Sports Net, they went behind the scenes of the Lakers draft room. It seemed to trend toward Old Dudes. It didn’t look like the other war rooms I saw on draft night like Boston and Toronto. This seems to be a signing from yesteryear.
Deschain says
The contract feels big, even in this cap enviroment. He has the tools to be solid for them though. Let’s hope he’s healthy.
fern16 says
We wont need a lot of offense out of him though.
Clay Bertrand says
smokedaddy
Let’s HOPE that Luke is having some input into this signing!!!! His new Baby might be driving him insane but hopefully its not like Mitch is saying, “Now who would Luke want??….Hmmmmm OH I know..MOZGOV!!!!”
Clay Bertrand says
fern16
It gives an idea of the level of guy we are getting to a degree sadly.
new rr says
Clay Bertrand new rr Mid Wilshire
Windhorst supposedly said that Year 4 is a TO.
Mozgov is not a bad player and has some positive metrics, and seems to have a good attitude. But he is a huge, kind of slow guy who turns 30 in 15 days, and if he gets much slower, he will be very slow indeed.
It is not 4/64 that bothers me; it is that I am unconvinced that the Lakers could not have done better for 4/64 or as well for less.
Drew Gordon says
Should we have tried for Biyombo instead? Not sure how well this fits in a pace and space system and league in general, especially for this large of a deal. I’m concerned.
Drew Gordon says
Clay Bertrand fern16 Is he going to get schemed off of the court more and more as the league goes smaller and smaller?
Clay Bertrand says
new rr Clay Bertrand Mid Wilshire
Great!! Makes more sense now…….its a LITTLE easier to swallow.
I’m lock step with you though man!!! I think I would have preferred Meyers Leonard for that money even!! They are saying Pau was possibly available which would have been interesting. Mahinmi would have been better perhaps too.
fern16 says
Noah is reportedly getting 72 mill for 4 years with the Knicks. Yikes, so im glad we got the russian cheaper.
Clay Bertrand says
Drew Gordon Clay Bertrand fern16
That’s what Darius brings up. But he may just play more or less based on match ups. Black and Zubac can take some minutes too. Black being a small ball option.
Drew Gordon says
Clay Bertrand new rr Mid Wilshire At least Leonard is taking a chance on a modern big. Plus he’s young. I would have preferred him as well.
Clay Bertrand says
fern16
ANNND I believe its ALL guaranteed unlike the reports saying Mozzy’s 4th yr is a team option.
Clay Bertrand says
Drew Gordon Clay Bertrand new rr Mid Wilshire
That’s EXACTLY my thinking. Still overpaying but not for a dinosaur!
Drew Gordon says
Clay Bertrand Drew Gordon fern16 I was just hoping for someone who could possibly switch in the P and R defensively. Don’t see that as Mozgov’s forte.
Clay Bertrand says
Drew Gordon Clay Bertrand fern16
Nance or Randle or Black………. PnR is why I thought Biyombo was a good option. That and his age.
J C hoops says
Clay Bertrand new rr Mid Wilshire
new rr says
Drew Gordon Clay Bertrand fern16
Maybe. Mozgov hardly played at all against GS in latter part of the Finals. But that is sort of the point: I think even if this market, a guy getting 16M should be a 30-32 MPG guy who you can play in most matchups.
Nothing against Mozgov: I think he will be a fun guy to to root for. But I am not feeling the signing for a lottery team, especially this early in FA.
Drew Gordon says
Clay Bertrand Drew Gordon fern16 That was my thinking too. But now maybe Biyombo is getting a max based on initial offers.
Drew Gordon says
new rr Drew Gordon Clay Bertrand fern16 Yes, I am concerned that he ends up playing limited minutes. Maybe we amnesty him after the new CBA?
matt24 says
Look at mosgov Wikipedia page quickly before they change it
Clay Bertrand says
J C hoops Clay Bertrand new rr Mid Wilshire
Shelburne reported his side was open to Pau returning.
Clay Bertrand says
matt24
He’s Indian? Who Knew???
Drew Gordon says
Clay Bertrand J C hoops new rr Mid Wilshire Pau would be awful defensively though.
Clay Bertrand says
Drew Gordon new rr Clay Bertrand fern16
LOL…..you know a signing is questionable when you are hoping for an AMNESTY provision before he even signs!!!
Its VERY likely going to be part of the new CBA.
matt24 says
They already changed it
Clay Bertrand says
Now that DeRozan has signed his MAX deal, look for the Batum pipe dream to end when he signs elsewhere………UNLESS, he DEMANDED that we sign Mozgov as a condition of him signing with us?!?????????? Possible right?????
Drew Gordon says
Clay Bertrand Drew Gordon new rr fern16 Like, I said I have serious reservations. On a more positive note, here is some tracking data that was posted at SS&R. It paints a better picture at least. Caveats being that this is a small sample size and he was probably mostly going against big slow bigs. Idk.
Offensively:
The Good:
Pick-and-roll – 87.7 percentile
Transition – 73.2 percentile
The Bad:
Put back – 44.8 percentile
Post – 32.3 percentile
Spot-Up – 4.2 percentile
Defensively:
Pick-and-roll – 76.3 percentile
Rim Protection – ~84th percentile among players taller than 6-7
Spot-Up – 87.9 percentile
Post – 70.4 percentile
Isolation – 59.1 percentile
Clay Bertrand says
Drew Gordon Clay Bertrand new rr fern16
Salve for the wound…….lol
Msway says
Who’s gona cover that 7′ monster in minnesota,isnt there a 7′ kid in new orleans,what about that boogie monster in sacramento,we just got a 7-1″monster who has something to prove.there is a big need for these types in the west.Randle,Nance,Ingram and everyone else just got thier asses saved. We are all going to dig him – lets get more
Clay Bertrand says
Msway
Who is gonna guard those monsters????? This guy:
Msway says
I will admit, his chick needs to work on his wardrobe LOL
Drew Gordon says
Clay Bertrand Drew Gordon @new rr fern16 Yeah, I guess I’m just trying to wrap my brain around why they wouldn’t make an offer to Biyombo. Or Ezeli even. Are we missing something with Mozgov? Even for 3 years, assuming the 4th is an option, how does this really benefit us down the road when the youngins are ready to contend for something. He may be a bit player on a playoff team. Couldn’t we have found a far cheaper stop gap?
Clay Bertrand says
Msway
Well FYI, the “PLAID BEDOUIN” look has been slow to catch on here in the States but its very big his home nation of India.
J C hoops says
Omg funniest pics ever
Clay Bertrand says
Drew Gordon Clay Bertrand fern16
Agree man. I think the Noah deal is worse but its looking like the market set the price until we see otherwise. We couldn’t afford to go into the season with no center and had no interest from Whiteside so maybe this is jsut uncomfortable over prudence.
Msway says
Lakers just set the market value for centers,Looks like anyone else isn’t going to be able to sign thier restricted free agents if they want one of the highly coveted centers
KenNewport says
I liked him in Denver in a running offense. Big upgrade from Fall Down Roy. Top guys don’t want to come here yet. You have to sign someone.
Clay Bertrand says
KenNewport
3 years $45 million w a team option 3rd year would have been more forward thinking IF they were set on him IMO.
barath_s says
Mozgov is a traditional big, but without elite strengths in passing, lateral movement/quickness (for P&R) etc.
The size of the deal suggests that he is the Lakers center (there were earlier thoughts among a section of the fanbase on platooning)
Clay Bertrand says
FWIW, the Heat, Spurs, and Warriors all were pursuing Mozzy according to BSPN. Likely NOT as their first options though.
Joe Kerr says
What this shows is that the Lakers were not confident that they would be able to sign any other center. They knew they absolutely needed a center and overpaid for a guy who barely played in the playoffs during Cleveland’s championship run.
Mozgov’s career high mpg is 25.6 and he averages 18.2 minutes for his career. So the Lakers just paid 4 yr/64 million dollars for a guy who doesn’t even average 30 min. Wow, I can’t believe this. Puzzling move by the Lakers.
Drew Gordon says
Clay Bertrand KenNewport Can he really operate in a running offense? Can he be a legit roll man over the course of a large sample size? If not, we have serious problems. Russell in particular needs a strong P and R partner to maximize his development.
Drew Gordon says
Clay Bertrand Drew Gordon fern16 But that’s just it. It has the whiff of a move that was made because we had to do something…anything. It just doesn’t strike me as forward thinking. I hope I’m wrong. I hope the front office sees some untapped potential. But I’m not sure I do.
alonzo quijano says
Sad. We needed a defensive monster at center or a decent defender with stretch shooting. We got a large journeyman without athleticism or a stretch shot. Half of what we needed for 80% of max.
Msway says
He has nice touch around the rim, a nice short range jumper, he is in good condition and can run,he will be a 14 and 8 guy for us as he cleans up randles missed chippies. I like him,remember that the cba is making a huge market adjustments upward,15 mil next year,at the end of his contract the cap will be huge
bleedpurplegold says
64mill?!? Are those in pesos? Rubles? My god how far has it come?!? I belive you could have gotten him for way less money than that, his suitors would have payed him 7-8max a year, and only after they struck out on the top targets. This is as embarrasing as it gets …
Dont get me wrong, i dont expect us to sign a KD or lebron. But i think we had a chance to snag leonard, horford, pau or anyone like that… paying a guy that kind of money who had a carrer best 10/6 2 years ago is just dumb af….
FIRE JIM BUSS!!!
bleedpurplegold says
Why would a max guy demand to sign a scrub for 80% of the max?!?
Thus is just one of many bad moves jim buss made during the last years…his time is OVER!!!
new rr says
Couple of positives:
1. Mozgov doesn’t have much mileage on his legs, even though he is almost 30. He has played 6718 regular season minutes in the NBA. Noah, by way of comparison, has played 16848. Mozgov has been durable lately–playing 82, 81, and 76 games the last three years. I expect that lack of mileage will be cited as a positive at the presser. Biyombo actually has more career MP (7764) than Mozgov does,
2. If you look at Mozgov’s NBA.com tracking data, he had positive impact on D by a lot of metrics, and in all areas of the floor.
3. His career shooting percentage from 0-3 feet is .660. Not great, but good. Noah is .571 and Biyombo is .636.
His best work was under Shaw in Denver, so, yes, it is likely that Shaw played a role in this move.
new rr says
That said, he doesn’t have much of a game on O, is not dominant on D, and may decline quickly or not be able to play 32 minutes a game.
new rr says
Reports that Clarkson has re-signed here for 4/50 and Batum has re-sogned in Charlotte for 5/120.
ceartas says
Well, Darius predicted sticker shock, and the howls are deafening. Derozan supposedly signed for $153 million for 5 years. Yikes! And $72 million for Noah knees? I’m just happy to be just a fan, and not a GM like the rest of youse guys.
BTW, Darius, love the new comment section, particularly the way it updates without having to reload the page. Slick and classy!
Tra 35 says
Hopefully, the reports of the 4th year being a team option are true. If so, IMO, 3/48 mil, with the cap going up even more next season, makes the deal, somewhat, more acceptable. Personally, with the fact being that Whiteside had no interest in us, although restricted, I would have made a strong effort to sign Myers Leonard. With his youth, size, shooting, good mobility and the ability to play either the 5 or stretch 4, he seemed like the perfect fit for the new regime. So while I’m not the biggest fan of this deal, for the length of it – as stated earlier, hopefully 3 years instead of 4 – I would rather have Mozgov instead of players such as Ezeli and Biyombo because, simply put, IMHO, he’s just more talented than them.
Drew Gordon says
So, Mozgov provided 0.3 VORP last year. Perhaps that is unfair, so let’s say he reclaims his form from two years ago—0.8 VORP from that year (his best ever for a season). For 16 mil per year over 4 (maybe 3) years. And keep in mind that replacement level players will be paid the same this year as they were last year. The cap spike won’t affect their paychecks, making this even more of a premium. So tell me, is he really worth even close to that money? A quick comparison to Horford as he is of similar age. He had a VORP of 4.1 last year. That’s 5 times Mozgov’s value from two years ago (when he was more productive). Do the salary math and you see that 16 mil per year for Mozgov is concerning. Horford is going to get double that, not 5 times.
Look I hope he breaks out and proves me wrong. But it probably would have been preferable to just punt this money to next year rather than give out this size of a contract to Mozgov. He probably ends up bringing a very incremental benefit to the team for a comparatively large price. It’s money that could end up being better utilized elsewhere, even if it’s not until next year. The real benefit will come from internal growth of our kiddos. All this does is lessen our cap space over the next couple years (in the name of vet presence). And being the Lakers, that cap space could be potentially quite valuable, assuming our youngins make a big leap at some point (if not, we are doomed anyway).
Drew Gordon says
I guess I just feel like for this kind of money we should have made a higher upside play. This just seems like a ton of money for very little projected value. Again, barring a huge jump in production from a 30 year old coming off of a botched knee surgery. Tell me I’m wrong. I really want to be wrong.
Drew Gordon says
It kind of reeks of the Omer Asik deal with the Pelicans.
Altemawa says
its really like a bad deal. but that’s the product of the incoming new CBA, and the lack of talent that we attract…
im really sad that we have to settle for rotation centers, and insert them as starters. we could have tried snagging other names, but the reality is that no one seems to want to come here anymore… 🙁
well, i do not like the signing, but will support him when he plays. he’s really big inside, and can score around 10-15pts with a very good PG. so I am hoping that DAR will have a breakout season. JC seems to be lock to have 20+ ppg. 🙂 but what we need is his improve defense.
fern16 says
The over paying begun. With the rising cap this was bound to happen and salaries like the one we are paying Mosgov will be the norm. And with the cap rising next summer too? This will look like a bargain.
Shaunis007 says
so instead of waiting and whiffing on everyone like last year we signed a quality big who will play for us quickly as opposed to waiting to resign hibbert in the end kind of how we ended up with him last year and hill the year before
if Noah is getting 72
Batum – getting a 30M max (retarded)
Parsons getting a max after missing 2 consecutive seasons, and his current team balking a 2md time in a row (even more retarded)
then numbers are going to be retarded and even bigger money will start being thrown around at fewer and fewer guys
if whiteside goes to dallas miami now has no center has to chase guys (howard maybe) amd howard isnt coming here
horford isnt coming here, whiteside was having a hissy fot and wouldnt even take a meeting, okc probably wants an asset for kanter, and biyombo is too small/limited for this type of contract
if we sign ezeli, leonard – money tied up in a probable match we then lose out on guys amd go into hibbert mode
we signed a guu we knew we could get quick before the market was up not that bad
plus the clarkson deal is a great deal for the team
we have what 35M left in cash?
Altemawa says
Noah was a former all-star, same as Pau. they are proven vets who will demand those kind of salaries. for Mosgov, i dont know. maybe he’s big and our coach sees something that they can maximize out of him. we could have grab Pau for veteran leadership, and add a young Center playing 50/50 with Pau at the C. but that will not happen anymore.
im saying hello to Mosgov, he’s really big and can operate inside, but still needs an elite PG.
Vasheed says
2 years ago the Cavs looked brilliant when they inserted Mozgov into their lineup. Suddenly their defense didn’t look horrible and he later played big in the playoffs. Last year over the course of a season he became a forgotten man.
I don’t think Mozgov is a bad center but, I don’t think he makes any sense playing for Luke Walton. I don’t really like this signing,
BigCitySid10552 says
– Disappointed, but not surprised w/ the talent level of the Mozgov signing.It’s a reality check for all the bad decisions this ownership group has made in recent years.
– Mozgov will probably play for the Lakers for 2 years then be involved in a trade because by that time his contract will appear much more acceptable.
– Hoping Bass re-signs
– Still awaiting Ingram press conf
wwlofficial says
Mozgov is a 14/10/2 big per 36. He will be 30 soon, but he’s played 6 seasons *only* thus far. I am not a fan of the amount, but I guess that’s the new going rate and it requires getting used to. I am definitely not screaming or drinking when I read the report. Was quite glad actually, though I wished somehow it was cheaper than 16M per year.
Hearing there is a team option for year 4, effectively making this a 48/3 deal, still 16M per season… the only thing good about it is if it is indeed a 3-yr deal guaranteed, then it comes off the books in time to pay D1gelo Russell.
wwlofficial says
Jordan Clarkson is back w/ the team on a bargain deal. Reports say its 50M over 4 yrs, a deal that I had hoped, wished and predicted. Glad about these 2 signings thus far. Hoping for Evan Turner + Marvin Williams next.
Vasheed says
What are the odds Mozgov with the knee issue fails a medical check up?
BillHonsberger says
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. He was lame in Denver, then he was lame in Cleveland! Nice move Kupcake!
_ Robert _ says
Hilarious tweet from Bill Barnwell:
Lakers: “We’ll give you $65 million over four years.”
Mozgov’s agent: “Wait, seriously?”
Wow – this guy is 30 and hardly saw the floor in the finals. Hard to explain this.
_DPeterson_ says
Darius prepared us for the sticker shock. So what would normally be a vacuous pit in my stomach is merely a gaping maw… Mozgov now makes more than Steph Curry. Huh?
_ Robert _ says
new rr So – not much on O, not dominant on D, may decline quickly and may not be a long minutes guy, saw the floor very little in finals, and his stats went way down last year.
Can you add some more to your “positives” post to make me feel better?
Mid Wilshire says
OK. I’m trying to understand the signing of Mozgov for 4/64 and here’s my thinking.
1) The Contract. I would guess that Mitch did not lead with 4/64. He may have come in with something like 3/42. But then the negotiating started. Mozgov’s reps said 4 years. Mitch said OK with year 4 at a Team Option. And they agreed on 16 Mill per year. There probably wasn’t a lot of back and forth. It happened quickly.
2) A Possible Long Term Strategy. Mozgov, then, will be on our team (barring a trade or some other movement) for the next 3 years. That’s not in itself a horrible thing depending upon how his game holds up. Meanwhile, Zubac develops. IF Zubac develops as the Lakers hope, he’ll be ready to start in, say, 2 years. Right now he’s 19 y.o. So, by then he’ll be 21, young, relatively spry, and ready to compete with other NBA centers. Mozgov then moves to the bench and is gone after 3 years. He will have served his purpose.
3) The Immediate Future. Mozgov has never played more than 25.6 minutes per game on the average (which is not unusual for 7-1 centers). Therefore, this next year we can probably expect Mozgov and Tarik Black to share the playing time while Zubac learns from the bench and grows his game by banging against these guys in practice (as Andrew Bynum did a few years ago). This will be the norm, more or less, for the next 2 years. Meanwhile, Zubac continues to develop. But make no mistake, Zubac will be the key in order for this strategy to work over time. Within 3 years, the Lakers will be competing for a Playoff spot (hopefully) and Zubac (or another young big) will be our center.
At least, those are my thoughts at present. (But I still say 4/64 is a bit much.)
EuropeanLaker says
At first I wasn’t too happy about the signing although when I think about it there is one thing I like very much about it: The FO seems to have a plan. And it seems to be a realistic one this time. If you are signing someone only a few hours after you can contact players for this amount of money you are not doing this because of desperation.
After the last Offseasons the FO didn’t dream, waited and failed. They moved quickly and got their guy. And they stayed away from any gambles on injury prone players (no Parsons, no Noah). Especially after the latest reports (“We’ll get Melo, Durant…”) I am quite happy about this.
Although I can’t really see what the plan is (maybe P&R Partner for D’Angelo and some defense, I’ve seen some promising metrics/stats about that) and the amount of money definitly raises some questions.
h david says
good morning darius: agree; would not benefit the lakers. big picture laker nation; small picture laker organization. reeks a little of front office desperation; why not go with a center someone; anyone. do see some resemblance between mozgov and zubak though.
coach Walton will have his hands full for sure.
Go lakers
Minor Threatt says
A Mosgov Apologist’s Handbook:
1. The deal might have a fourth year TO. (A year three PG, as I’ve seen on a couple of message boards, would be even better.)
2. Compared to a full guarantee for Noah’s NYK deal (which we still don’t know is the case yet), this deal could easily occasion less regret overall.
3. Mosgov’s P&R stats, screen-setting and finishing ability around the rim all appear to be positives, and should help DLo (and Clarkson) a lot.
4. He has been brought in on a partial deal to help mentor Zubac, as Mid- suggests — suggesting the Lakers already believe in Zubac (and, of course, are correct in that belief).
5. Luke signed off fully on this deal, hoping that Mosgov can replicate some of Bogut’s role in GS.
6. The team got a glowing recommendation from Shaw, as rr mentions below — since Mosgov played well in Denver.
7. There is another plan on defense to cover Mosgov’s limitations. We don’t know what that plan consists of yet, but it might involve a trade, an under-the-radar signing, or just an innovative use of existing personnel. (No, not talking about Sacre.)
8. This signing reflects an admirable realism: the Lakers need talent, even second-tier talent, and they were going to get shut out if they waited.
9. Clarkson signed a team-friendly deal that could become a huge value if he continues his development — and proves that someone, at least, has bought in besides Mosgov.
10. As much bad press as this deal has garnered, partly because it was first, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
If I go over all 10 points, I can make myself feel a little better, especially when I filter the media comments thus far through the known prism of Laker hatred. Even after all that, would I have rather they passed? Probably.
new rr says
Minor Threatt
Robert and I have exchanged emails about the team, and one sort of obvious thing we have talked about: the more people have to try to explain a move, the more suspect it is. If the Lakers had been able to get Whiteside, some people would have had issues with the attitude, others would have groused about the money. But it would have been clear why they did it.
No one had to explain drafting Ingram; no one had to explain hiring Walton. There won’t be long posts/threads explaining the Clarkson contract.
Digging into the numbers, I found some positives with Mozgov. It may be that Mahinmi, Biyombo and Ezeli are out of play and the FO knew that going in. It may be that the FO has the edge on everybody here, and knows stuff about Mozgov most people don’t. But the fact that people are digging and coming up with explanations, etc. shows that the move may be problematic.
FredP says
Mozgov is also a solid rebounder at both ends of the floor. He played well against GS in two finals and they really did not have an answer for him once Bogut went down. If he could pass he would not have been available. He looks like he will be a good complementary player next season.
KimLuna says
J C hoops Clay Bertrand new rr Mid Wilshire That’s what happened with Nash. He was averaging a double-double then we suddenly lose him on the first game of the season.
Gasol is turning 36 in a couple days.
Kareemez says
Drew Gordon
The contract isn’t too out of line with what’s been given
before, especially considering the current FA context. The Lakers were going to
have to overpay to bring anyone in (which is par for the course during free
agency). For comparison, here I would compare Mozgov, not to Asik, but Kufos
and Gortat, both whom have received contracts in the last few seasons. I’ve
used Mozgov’s 14-15 campaign as reference here, for the reasons mentioned by many:
Per 36 statistics: Pts; TRB; BLK; PER; TS%; WS; VORP
Mozgov (14-15) – 13.8; 10.3; 1.7; 16.6; 59.4%; 5.7; 0.8
Kufos (15-16) – 12.9; 10.3; 1.7; 15.1; 54%; 3.5; 0.3
Gortat (15-16) – 16.2; 11.8; 1.5; 19; 59.2%; 7.3; 1.8
Here are their salaries as a percentage of the cap:
Mozgov: 18% cap hit, 2015-16; 15% projected cap hit, 2016-17
Kufos: 12% cap hit, 2014-15; 9% cap hit, 2015-16
Gortat: 17% cap hit, 2014-15; 12% cap hit, 2015-16
Looking at their cap hits, Mozgov is definitely an outlier.
Less bang for the buck, compared to Gortat, especially. But this is also an
unprecedented year for the NBA, representing the largest single year salary cap
increases ever.
Travis Y says
I’ll give a Texas Hold ‘Em analogy to the Mozgov signing. It is the equivalent to over betting your two pair with the possibility of a flush on the board.
You rather take the pot down and get the sure thing rather than playing out the hand and losing on the river.
Is Mozgov the big pot win? No, but after our front office realized we were not getting meetings with star players or even players on the rise, it needed a medium sized win.
It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback, but the fact of the matter is Kupchak made a play rather than be reactionary after the market rate for centers was set and having even slimmer pickings than he currently does.
The real question will be once the dust settles. How much did Biyombo, Leonard, and Mahinmi go for?
Kareemez says
new rr Minor Threatt
This is a good rule of thumb. However, Mozgov is not the problem. The state of the Lakers given the state of the league is the problem. Next year there will be a similarly large jump in the salary cap (and floor). Free agents knew going in that there was a lot of money available. The Lakers were not in a favorable position to target players valued correctly for their performance. The fact that Shaw has coached Mozgov before and knows how he will contribute to a young and growing team likely played a major factor.
_ Robert _ says
Travis Y To continue with your analogy – we are short stacked and there was nothing in the pot.
“even slimmer pickings than he currently does. ” Well – yes – but that just shows how weak of a “hand” we really have.
Jerry was the poker player
KevTheBold says
Seems like money is burning a hole in the front office’s pocket.
Either that or they are saying goodbye to the pick&roll.
I have a difficult time understanding why Walton would approve, though maybe it’s the hair of the dog that bit him.
Possibly since golden state reportedly had interest, that the Lakers sped in there to scoop him off the grass & bag him, as soon as the Cavs squeezed him out.
I hope this is simply a trade bait plan, because his limited skills, age, and price tag make this deal yet another head scratcher.
Minor Threatt says
I agree with both those points. If the major defense of a deal us that it won’t look so bad in a year or two, that seems to be damning with the faintest of praise.
However, this may just reflect a reality that is painful to accept for Lakers fans. We are, at best, a year away from anyone legit giving us FA consideration. And even if we ride this out by not signing any free agents, as some folks suggest, the second ugly reality is that we are then, potentially, a 20- to 30 win team that is likely to suffer through another trying season and finally lose its lottery pick to boot.
barry_g says
Have to think we could’ve gotten him for less, but who knows what the competition for his services was like w/ the other teams.
A Horse With No Name says
To Minor Threatt’s Mozgov apologist primer I would add:
1. The lakers believe, with some evidence, that they can develop Tarik Black into an effective small ball center with his mobility, length and strength–a poor man’s Biyombo–with a bit of upside. Paired with Mozgov, that gives the team some versatility.
2. Is there any evidence that the team could have done better? (With regards to signing him for less, or nabbing Biyombo etc.) As of right now, we can’t really say. It seems like a very solid signing given the deals we currently know about.
barry_g says
A Horse With No Name re: #2, just asked Pelton a similar q, and he mentioned Cole Aldrich as someone we could’ve signed to a much smaller product w/ equal or greater productivity.
J C hoops says
I think 12 and 8
spartla says
I expected sticker shock – but for someone who fit our system better, and for less years.
A Horse With No Name says
barry_g A Horse With No Name
I have seen both of these guys quite a bit. Aldrich has some skills but is a career back up. Mozgov is a far better athlete and has greater skills. Don’t think Aldrich could sustain the productivity over greater minutes and playing against starters vs. the bench players he been playing against. Typical Pelton . . .
AlanSiegel says
” …but my gut reaction is that the deal, as reported, would not benefit the Lakers.” AN UNDERSTATEMENT!