It is the middle of August. Asking legitimate questions about how an NBA team’s rotation shakes out really is all speculation. Teams haven’t yet convened for camp. They haven’t practiced or played a pre-season game. Things like injuries or trades or…really, everything, have not yet influenced how roster battles will shake out or even the final composition of the team.
However, after stating those caveats, a question has been lingering with me since early July and I just can’t seem to shake it any longer: Could Marcelo Huertas Beat out Jose Calderon as Backup PG?
In a way, this seems like a silly question, doesn’t it? Calderon is a known product who has had a ton of success in the NBA. While he’s 34 now, Huertas isn’t much younger at 32 and their relative NBA experience leans heavily towards Calderon having the inside track to back up D’Angelo Russell at point guard. It’s this background which basically led me to believe Huertas wouldn’t even be brought back after the Calderon trade happened.
Then, however, Huertas was re-signed. And then the Olympics started. Then Huertas’ Brazilian team (with him playing a big role) beat Calderon’s Spanish team (with him being marginalized and only playing two minutes) in a notable — though not shocking — upset. Then the very smart John Schumann of NBA.com tweeted this:
Random, Olympics & NBA-related thought: Who gets more minutes for the Lakers next season: Calderon or Huertas?
— John Schuhmann (@johnschuhmann) August 9, 2016
Where is the thinking face emoji when I need it?
Of course, context is always needed. As Schumann later wrote, the Spanish team is in transition away from their older generation of players while also being deep at point guard. This limits Calderon’s chances in ways Huertas — who is still his team’s best playmaker and only battling Raul Neto for minutes — does not have to deal with.
Further, international play does not always translate to NBA play. We see this every year as international talents who are NBA role-players take on out-sized roles as “the man” for their home country — and do so ably — only to revert back to a role-player on their NBA team. Huertas, though not “the man” for Brazil, certainly is looked to as a key player within their scheme and is optimized in order to produce the best team results.
That calculus changes when everyone returns stateside and reverts back to who they are in this league.
Still, even with all this context and known caveats, it is impossible to ignore the current roles both players are inhabiting for their respective national teams and wonder who is actually the better player and how that will (or won’t) affect their roles with the Lakers.
We have discussed each players’ strengths and weaknesses plenty, so those are pretty much known. Calderon’s shooting and steady, heady play can be a real asset for a team which needs spacing and leadership. Meanwhile, Huertas’ fantastic playmaking, court vision, and savviness add a dimension the Lakers lack and really does help incubate the type of ball movement and team play which keeps players involved.
It’s impossible to know which would matter more to these Lakers, but it is not a stretch to imagine Huertas’ game and style could be of more impact.
Time will tell, of course. As noted at the very top, practices and pre-season games haven’t started. We haven’t seen how these guys do against each other yet, much less opponents. These things will impact coaching decisions. It is also good to remember opinions evolve and decisions change. Even if this position battle leans one way early, the other guy may end up snatching the reigns away later on.
And maybe that’s the ultimate point of Schumann’s tweet. At this point, it really is worth pondering. Which, if you would have asked me a month ago, I wouldn’t have even thought twice about my answer.
Vasheed says
I would say depends on who is on the court. Calderon is a good choice, if you otherwise lack perimeter shooting. Huertas keeps guys involved and has a nice little floater. They’re both terrible on D but, Huertas tries. I mean he really really tries….
mattal says
I suspect that Calderon will get a majority of the backup PG minutes prior to the trading deadline. I fully expect him to be dealt at the deadline. Huertas will then play a majority of the backup minutes the balance of the year.
I think the biggest question for the season is the possible logjam at the Four. Unless Deng drinks from the fountain of youth he proved to be ineffective on the wing last season for the Heat. His numbers were 10 pts and 4 rebs while playing SF and jumped to 15 and 8 when he played PF. How do Randle, Deng and Nance (with Black in the mix as well) get enough minutes? How does Randle take the leap forward that we need him to take without long stretches on the floor?
In turn this begs the question of who plays the Three. Long term its Ingram but while he is learning in the NBA can the Lakers play one of Deng, Randle or Nance out of position and not pay too steep of a price in offensive/defensive efficiency? Of course Brown is on the squad but if he’s getting more than 10 minutes a game then the Lakers are in trouble.
matt24 says
Most likely Huertas is the backup, they talked about this one twc sportsnet, caulderon couldn’t even get playing time with the spain Olympics team, meanwhile Huertas played well for brazil
Clay Bertrand says
Already a suspect signing and universally panned by the geniuses at BSPN as one of the worst of the off season, now Mozzy slingshots his groin such that an MRI is necessary to ascertain the damage.
Hope we don’t end up with a 7 foot Steve Nash……..No bueno……….
mattal says
Please don’t get me started on the Mozgov signing. Hint: it was really bad in my opinion. Here’s Kevin Pelton’s thoughts from his Chat earlier today.
Question: Hey Kevin. I know you were one of the people who did not like the contract given to Timofey Mozgov and i know besides the almost impossible outcome he plays well for all 4 years, the only way L.A. would win in the peoples’ eyes is if they dealt him while he was playing well for some other asset/s. My question is could it be a win if he plays well for at least the next 2 seasons as a starter and then plays well in a reduced back up role? Some seem high on Zubac and if he can develop while playing behind Mozgov, L.A. might not mind playing Mozzy at back up in year 3 of his deal (if he is not traded by then). Could Mozgov be worth the money as long as he gives the Lakers a legitimate starting C for a while and helping them give Philly a not quite as good 1st round pick as they had hoped next season? (i know it will probably still be a lottery pick but one can hope a late one!) Thanks!
Kevin Pelton:No, because the Lakers will still be paying $18 million a year for a backup. The presence of Zubac is all the more reason the Lakers shouldn’t have paid big for a center who doesn’t move the needle.
KevTheBold says
Good thing Mozzy is here mainly for his mentoring.
A bright side is, that some of us may get our wish, and see more of Zubac on the court.
matt24 says
Did this guy mention the knicks signing of noah, magic signing of biyombo, or wizards signing of mahinmi, same types of contracts biyombo actually got the most, and al horford got a max deal and it will be a miracle if he plays all 4 yeard without injuries, the same goes for noah, biyombo and mahinmi are perspective backups
It’s only because it’s the lakers that this backladh happens, the biyombo signing is terrible and no one says anything.
new rr says
matt24
Pelton had Orlando as one of his off-season “losers” and also had some negative things to say about most of those other signings. He did like the Horford deal, and recall that Horford was #1 on Darius’ off-season Lakers target centers list. The excerpt above is from today’s chat, so he was responding to a question about Mozgov. Pelton also answered a question about Orlando. ESPN has some bias agianst the Lakers, but a lot of that was about Kobe, and Pelton has far less anti-Lakers bias than some of the other guys do.
As to Biyombo, he is seven years younger than Mozgov is, presuming that his age is for real, although their NBA mileage is similar.
I was and am not a supporter of the Mozgov deal, as noted, but there are arguments for it. And I do not recall many or any people here saying, “Mozgov is the guy the Lakers need for his mentoring” until after the deal was announced. But perhaps I am not remembering.
J C hoops says
I’m going to be optimistic and say Mozgov’s injury is minor, and we’re lucky it happened in the off-season. As far as his contract goes, his value is really yet to be determined. So many people trash this signing but I think we need to wait and see how things play out this year before we judge.
HumanLakers says
Can the Lakers PLEASE get MILOS TEODOSIC instead of Calderon or Huertas..
Renato Afonso says
For all his talent, Teodosic isn’t a true professional. He smokes after games, etc. Regarding the olympics, unless Calderon’s legs are gone, you can’t really make assumptions based on it. Rubio, Sergio Rodriguez and Sergio Llull had a better season than Calderon and can play defense. Huertas has no competition for the PG spot in Brazil’s squad.
Let’s wait and see because Calderon is also a true PG that likes to set up others for scoring and always played better defense than Huertas…
Clay Bertrand says
Renato Afonso
Well stated. The International Competition is totally different from CLUB or TEAM competition in ALL sports. Sometimes, a guy is the only good player for his country but on his professional team, he is only a role player. Brazil isn’t a basketball powerhouse while Spain is somewhat in International terms (their lackluster Olympics aside).
So because Brazil has less quality talent overall, Huertas plays a more prominent role on his team than Calderon does for Spain AND perhaps, he also got a boost from playing in his home country. Brazil has supported its own athletes very strongly at the games.
PS—Love them Euro athletes that still SMOKE CIGARETTES!!!! Like the NBA of the 70s!!!! ; )
HumanLakers says
Clay Bertrand Renato Afonso
I dont care if he smokes or not. Just loves his feel for the game and his flair 🙂
And not only on the Serbian national team, he is really one of the best point guards in Europe.
_ Robert _ says
This Mosgov injury and the extent of it is only important for the short term, which means it is not very significant.
Long term, this deal was bad from the start. We have this guy for 4 years. What happens in the first year will not change the fact that this contract will be highly undesirable in years 3 + 4.
Clay Bertrand says
HumanLakers Clay Bertrand Renato Afonso
Sure smoking isn’t bad or anything!! Studies indicate that Athletes especially should take up smoking. Maybe MT can just start chewing SKOAL BANDITS!!!! Just a little pouch “…between yer cheek and gum and you get REAL TOBACCO FLAVOR, without lighting up!!”
–According to the TV AD from my Childhood
Seriously though, I see what you like in his game. I DO like the game of a few Euro PGs ……they are TRUE PGs like there used to be in the NBA. Assisting and stewarding the whole offense are still fundamentally the roles of the Euro PG and their mentalities are more like a Steve Nash as opposed to our new NBA SCORE FIRST and garner assists somewhat secondarily type of PGs.
I think its the fact that they are more traditional PGs that makes us appreciate them but the NBA for whatever reason is evolving a different kind of PG these days. Russell Westbrook and Steph Curry get great assist numbers but they seem to come in the course of their own individual offensive games as opposed to any primarily purposeful efforts to make the game easier for their teammates and get easier shots. Euros are more PASS FIRST oriented.
Kobe used to get assists but I can only recall 1-2 games where he was REALLY LOOKING to get others involved……….He got Triple Doubles. Most of the time, though, the assists were a byproduct of his own individual offensive game.
KevTheBold says
_ Robert _
It depends upon what you believe Mozgov is here for.
If you believe he is here to mentor our kids, then the duration of his deal is perfect.
If however you believe he is to here to help us win now, then of course, there were younger and cheaper players possibly to be had.
The inescapable fact is however, that we are not going to win for several years, no matter who we selected, or to be more accurate, selected us.
Thus it made logical sense to try and land players who had the essentials of high character, deep experience and most of all, would be willing to give up their remaining years on a losing team to help turn a group of boys into men, and then sign them to long term contracts for the sake of our core’s, unity and stability.
The money spent on those deals, is irrelevant, as long as we can pay our core the money they earn on their pay scale trajectories.
_ Robert _ says
KevTheBold:
Wow – wait a minute – I thought I was the pessimist.
I think we all agree that the Lakers are no title threat for
the next couple of years.
And we would also agree that things would have to go very,
very right for us to be a contender in say 3-4 yours -keep in mind Jim made the same promise 3-4
years ago:)
However it appears as though you are writing off the next 4
years(at least – with no end in
sight).
Sad thing is – you could be correct.
KevTheBold says
_ Robert _ KevTheBold
I don’t particularly view progressive development years as a negative. Especially if a team has exciting players, which ours does.
I’m going to enjoy seeing the kids grow up.
matt24 says
Huertas skills could fit lukes system perfect
matt24 says
“The severity of the injury is unknown right now”
matt24 says
Conspiracy theory, secure the pick through mystery injuries
mattal says
The Deng Mozgov signings could prove to be problematic as soon as next summer.
Deng is a wonderful player but he’s 31/32 and his last good season as a Three was 3 years ago. He went out of his way last season to say that he felt he was a better Four than a Three and the number proved it (see my post below). This is why, despite being a good guy, his signing was a head scratcher to me. And like all former Thibs Bulls it’s not the age it’s the miles.
Mozgov has never in his career, to my knowledge, been termed a good teacher/mentor. He may be and that could mitigate the pain of his signing if he were on a two year deal. He is, in my opinion, an average player whose contributions on the floor could be duplicated by cheaper alternatives. As it is he becomes an un-tradable contract as soon as next summer.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m high on the Lakers future but Jim/Mitch could have accomplished their goals of obtaining stabilizing vets for less years and money and kept financial flexibility for next summer or the summer thereafter when the young core’s play could really attract better free agent help. We have $34 mil a year tied up in Deng/Mozgov. Highlighting mistake signings by other teams does not make the Lakers blunder any more appealing.
Mitch saying that the team had to overpay Deng/Mozgov is as much of an indictment of management as it is in having a team so young.
matt24 says
Nba tv showing classic lakers games all day
KevTheBold says
mattal
Are you under the impression that we would be a desired destination for the types of free agents you are evidently seeking to join us in the next couple of years?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it would seem your opinion is, that we don’t have a future star, let alone two, among our core thus are hoping that some max free agents will come and save us.
Well, it’s my belief that unless we take the time to believe in, and develop our core with the mindset that they hold our future in their hands, then my fellow laker fan, we will never know, and thus will always be at the mercy of free agents, which is a revolving door that history proves, in most cases, leads to frustration and ruin.
The tried and true blueprint, both recent and over the past 50 years is to draft well, and let continuity forge a strong and united unit.
No it’s not a fast track process and goes in contrary to Jim’s timeline, ect. ect.
As so, one needs to learn to stomach losses, which is difficult, especially after all these years of turmoil and disappointment.
Yet this is the first year in 5, where we can finally start making progress towards our goals, and that to many of us is worthy of taking our shoes off and enjoying the process. Knowing that at this stage, impatience, kills, helps with that.
mattal says
Ingram and Russell have the potential to be stars. We don’t need saviors in free agency but we do need talent. In the summer of 2018 I wouldn’t say no to Paul George or the Greek Freak if they wanted to come for instance.
With Deng and Mosgov the Lakers are 25 to 30 win team. Signing Hibbert and Bass on the cheap would make the Lakers a 25 to 30 win team. Why spend the extra money for so long? In light of the fact that we owe 2 of our next 3 first round picks to other teams cap flexibility is pretty important.
Additionally, I am adverse to signing players for the downside of their careers. And signing Deng/ Mosgov to four year deals assures the Lakers of doing so.
KevTheBold says
mattal
Fair enough, yet I believe that we have that talent on board already. They are just young and green.
MT87 says
The future of the Lakers does not depend on the production of Mozgov. His contract sucks, but its also sunk money at this point so I don’t see a whole lot of point getting worked up about it. It doesn’t matter if you are glass half empty or glass half full, either the young guys are gonna carry this team into the next era or they won’t. If Zubac gets some extra minutes this year I have no complaints.
new rr says
MT87
What people complain about and think should and should not be talked about is of course almost entirely subjective, but given that Mozgov has four fully guaranteed years on his deal and hasn’t even practiced with the Lakers yet, much less played an actual game for them, I think going with, “It’s over; it’s a sunk cost, forget it, stop complaining” is, well, a long and odd reach. I have applied that argument to Byron and Kobe, who are gone or, last season, were clearly in their final years with the team. Mozgov OTOH just got here.
You are obviously correct that the Lakers’ future depends on the young guys, and even if Mozgov’s deal turns out to be a disaster, that presumably won’t slow down Russell and Ingram. But the deal could have very negative effects in terms of flexibility and being able to take advantage of opportunities to upgrade the roster if and when those situations arise over the next 2-3 years, and there are specific reasons to think that he won’t help more on the floor than guys who would have cost less and/or are younger would have.
As many including me have suggested, I think it is likely Kupchak and especially Walton see some things in Mozgov that are not readily visible in the recent metrics, and wanted him for specific reasons. The “mentoring/culture” stuff was probably a factor as well, but given that the Lakers reportedly first offered Kent Bazemore the same deal that they eventually gave Deng and then moved on to Deng, my guess is that the FO and Walton are less focused on that aspect than people here defending the deals are. I think the FO and Walton believe that Mozgov is their guy because of what he will do on the floor. We will see how that turns out.
MT87 says
new rr MT87 I think you’ve taken a rather strange interpretation of my post. Nowhere did I say stop talking about it or forget about it. I said, “I don’t see a whole lot of point getting worked up about it,” and I stand by that and I don’t think there is anything odd or reaching or even controversial about my opinion. These contracts are sunk costs whether they were signed yesterday or three years ago. That is an incontrovertible fact. These contracts do have negative effects on our cap space. I’m not ignoring that, I’m taking it for granted and moving on with my day because cap space is far from the most important thing for the future of this team.
You just seem to be saying that you are going to complain about these deals no matter what. I honestly think that is just boring and unoriginal.
FredP says
new rr MT87 “I think the FO and Walton believe that Mozgov is their guy because of what he will do on the floor.” This is the point, for the Lakers it was worth the size and length of the contract to bring his skill set to the Lakers. If they had known how well Zubac would play in the summer league they might have done things differently. Instead the FO was working with two years of being humiliated by free agents and two years of being the worst team in the western conference. They got two free agents who make sense in the post Kobe world and a well balanced core of young players. They can focus on developing the team and stop worrying about who might be available next year.
KevTheBold says
FredP new rr MT87
Sage point Fred, that most are overlooking.
Constantly overturning the soil is detrimental to growing crops.
We have our priority in place: Development.
And now can concentrate on doing that over the next few years without distraction.
As for the Bazemore comment, the front office does their perfunctory duties imo mostly out of pressures of the business side. Additionally, Bazemore made it clear from the start that he wanted to stay put.
KevTheBold says
new rr
Interesting that the aspects of -mentoring & culture- you call “stuff”.
When imo, seeking wins in losing seasons, contained in a league wide losing bowl held tightly by two teams, is fluff in comparison to the serious tasks of mentoring to develop a proper culture, which can pay off solid dividends when the way is clear.
new rr says
MT87 new rr
Well, no one here, even DS, is getting paid to produce original content, and all the regulars, you certainly included, tend to repeat variations of the same points.
The reason Mozgov’s deal keeps coming up is that it is the most questionable big move that the FO made this summer. No one is talking about hiring Walton, drafting Ingram and Zubac, re-signing Clarkson, and re-signing Black, because all of those moves look to be pretty solid (although I think Black was paid a little more than he should have been). That being the case, we are going to see people criticizing the Mozgov deal and in turn people trying to defend and explain it.
The deal being a sunk cost is not necessarily an “incontrovertible fact” since they could perhaps trade him at some point. What are facts is that the deal is four years guaranteed for 64M and that Mozgov has not played a game yet. And he apparently has popped a groin muscle.
You seem to be saying that it’s a a bad contract but it is not that big of a deal since the young guys are all that matters. That is true to some extent, as I conceded, but the deal is expensive enough and long enough that it certainly matters quite a bit to the team.
new rr says
FredP new rr MT87
If your speculation about the FO’s thinking is accurate, then I would find that unsettling. If they felt “humiliated” then they need to step back, and available talent on the market in 2017 is something they were “worrying about” then that is a problem, too. They should be signing guys to try to help the team develop and get better. That’s it.
new rr says
KevTheBold new rr
Well, if you are thinking that the FO should be looking to stay away from”seeking wins in losing seasons”, then Deng and Mozgov are exactly the kinds of guys that the Lakers should be avoiding, as they are the kinds of guys, who, if they play well, will make a team a 31-51 team instead of a 27-55 team and will soak up minutes that younger players or end-of-bench guys might otherwise get. I think the FO signed Deng and Mozgov in part because they want the team to be as competitive as possible immediately without trading away young guys, and because they fit the team’s philosophy and, in Mozgov’s case, positional need. I think mentoring was a secondary consideration, although I may be wrong.
As to the mentoring/culture angle, this is the narrative that you are going with, as your brisk dismissal of the Bazemore thing shows. We will see how it works out. I will say that it makes more sense with Deng than it does with Mozgov, since, as mattal says, I have not seen a lot of buzz suggesting that Mozgov is known for his leadership traits/gravitas. That is not true of Deng. And again, I do not recall people here saying before free agency that Deng and Mozgov were the guys to get so that they mentor the young players and rebuild the team culture. But maybe I missed it.
As a general note: I like the Lakers’ young guys and am looking forward to watching them. Not liking certain moves the FO makes does not mean one is down on the whole team/program.
_ Robert _ says
The Future of the Lakers: Amongst our current group, obviously the youngsters mean quite a bit more than players like Mosgov and Deng. That said – unless you think that the youngsters are all developing into SuperStars (not all stars – but superstars), then the Lakers are going to need some additional help to finally “turn the corner” and become “contenders”. I would hope that some of this help would arrive sooner than 4 years from now. Therefore anything that hinders our acquisition of that help is not good. So over the next few years (inclusive of this summer), our FA moves, trades, and other moves do matter. We can’t just say – it does not matter as long as DAR plays well. No – in order to get where we need to go – we need both. We need the youngsters to develop into a minimum of 2 All Star level players. And we need to use cap space and trade possibilities wisely. Faltering in either area will add years to the process. We are now 6 years removed from the Finals. I for one would like to get back sooner rather than later (albeit – the next couple of years are not a possibility). It seems that some are setting expectations so low that this rebuild will be measured in decades. If anyone responds – please do not compliment me by calling me a pessimist : ) Rather – paint me a picture and a timeline for when we are getting back to contention. This is something that ownership already promised to us by now, so is it not reasonable to ask for it 3-4 years from now (which is double the original pledge)?
KevTheBold says
_ Robert _
Imo, Superstar potential is there in both D’Angelo and Ingram,.. however it needs to be nurtured.
The overarching point is we won’t know for sure if we go about dismissing the possibility by either trading one or both, or by constantly trying to bring others to take their roster spots.
Let’s keep perspective here: For the next several years the Warriors and Cavs will be passing the cup back and forth between them. Thus period of lull imo is best used to develop what we have and build around them.
Doing so, we have lost nothing but the urge to chase ghosts.
This is not a decade long process, only 3 to four years, the exact time when Moz and Deng will be off our books and we can add some quality players to fill in our shield wall.
This ‘both’ idea is the one which will set us back.
Think about it. What team will offer us their superstar without potential superstars in return?
That scenario simply replaces their situation with ours, giving them hope for the future, while trading away their past failure. Yes a shiny failure, but a failure none the less, that could not get the job done where he was, and most probably won’t where he goes.
The other scenario is the max free agent, and we already know how that ends up; with us looking like the dork who asked the popular girl out to the prom,..again.
KevTheBold says
new rr
Bingo, you hit it right on the head. We wanted to keep our and develop our core, while at least attempting to gain some respectability.
As for the front office, we know your stance there. It never changes and imo bleeds into your opinions on every issue.
No one here, nor any event, has been able even to slightly alter the angle on that opinion so I won’t even try.
mattal says
Nicely put Robert. I have tried to say the samething in my round about fashion.
In a capped league everything matters. The cap makes the question of opportunity costs a real discussion for all franchises including the Lakers.
Like you, I believe in the kids — but the reality is that we don’t know their true upside yet. Given that we are likely two years away from being a .500 team I would have preferred to keep our financial flexibility and pick up talent, via trade or free agency, that would help move the team significantly forward.
smokedaddy says
MT87 new rr Sorry MT. In the future I’ll endeavor to forgo any sort of passion or intensity when discussing the team for which this blog is titled. Or any commentary on any decisions of the front office of said team that have already come to pass. Or maybe any decisions they may make since that would entail speculation of some kind.
new rr says
KevTheBold new rr
I don’t have a stance; unlike you, I am not hard-selling a narrative. I evaluate moves. Short version: I think they have drafted well and made a couple of nice small trades, but have made many questionable decisions WRT coaching hires, free agency, and contract extensions since Howard walked and Kobe went down. The supernova plan with Nash and Howard was very high-risk and in some ways poorly executed, but I generally backed it and don’t blame them for trying it. And I think that is a pretty easily-supported and mostly mainstream position.
Right now, they have some nice young players/prospects, made what seems to be a very good coaching hire, and made a couple of very questionable FA signings. I do not think that the next franchise cornerstone is on the current roster, but I think they do have guys who can perhaps get them to a place to get that guy.
Where I am quite skeptical, and where I agree with mattal, is with the idea that spending big money on Luol Deng and especially Timofey Mozgov in their 30s will be a big help in developing the young guys and getting the team back into contention, and your repetitive, specifics-free pronouncements about the subject are unpersuasive.
I think the best arguments about the issue are some of Mozgov’s granular defensive numbers and his PnR finish numbers, and Deng’s apparent personal gravitas and positional versatility.
new rr says
_ Robert _
Well…Russell is 20, and Ingram will not be 19 until next month. So, barring something unusual occurring, I would say that the earliest shot is probably three full seasons from now, summer 2019, when those guys will be 23 and 22, and, if they are still on the roster, Deng and Mozgov will be entering the final years of their deals and might be movable as expirings.
I don’t know the exact contractual status of any big stars in that window save for Anthony Davis, but he is locked up in NO through 2021. I do not think that either Russell Westbrook or Blake Griffin will be part of the next Lakers contender.
The other thing to look at is this year’s draft; the Lakers could go say, 27-55, keep the pick, and land a future franchise anchor in June 2017.
matt24 says
One thing that’s lacking and would need to be added when the 2 all stars your talking about reach that level are defensive role players, ingram could become like kobe a great two way player, but i don’t see anyone who will develop into a defensive star maybe anthoney brown or larry nance jr, or a player acquired down the road. Nevertheless we need those robert horrey, rick fox, ron artest types to fill the gaps in the future
MT87 says
smokedaddy MT87 new rr You’ve missed the point entirely.
KevTheBold says
new rr
Of course you have a stance, and anyone who has been on this board more than a few months knows better.
Amusing, and so telling that you don’t believe you do however.
Case in point: The flashes of brilliance that D’Angelo has shown us, even from under that heavy patch quilt from last season and through summer league.
And Ingram, who we haven’t even pulled out of the garage, and already you say: ” I do not think that the next franchise cornerstone is on the current roster,”
On yes rr you have a stance, and it’s always under slate gray skies, raining down on us.
As for my repetitive specifics free pronouncements: First let me start with this from you:
“Well, no one here, even DS, is getting paid to produce original content, and all the regulars, you certainly included, tend to repeat variations of the same points.”
As for specifics, I have NBA history on my side, and I don’t need to dredge up and post it all for people who will only see the dark side of any possibility.
Darius Soriano says
new rr MT87 FWIW, people have offered to pay me to produce “original content” but I have declined. There are many reasons I decided what I did, but thought I’d point that out as another example of knowing what you don’t know and actively trying to have that inform what you say rather than the opposite.
KevTheBold says
Brandon Ingram on Offense And Defense, a potential Super Star.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y12y4mFWhis&feature=youtu.be
new rr says
KevTheBold new rr
FO: Like I have said, I would be fine with it if Jeanie
announced that they have two more years and then the issue can be re-visited. I
will also be OK with it if some changes are made, based on the overall track
record, which is mixed and has produced three consecutive seasons with the
worst record in franchise history. But one of many things that you miss, because
you are too scattered, emotional, and confrontational to catch it: I give them
credit when they do something I think is good, and I criticize things that I
disagree with, and it is the nature of the beast that the questionable moves
get discussed because there is more disagreement over them. There were not
lengthy discussions about the Walton hire because everyone thought it was a
good idea. And in this thread, I didn’t bring up Mozgov; someone else did. You
think he was a good signing, but other than general assertions about mentoring
and culture, you haven’t really explained why you think so. There were, as many
have noted, other options.
Current roster: I think that Russell and Ingram profile more
as #2 and #3 level guys, rather than as guys who can be the cornerstone of a contender,
like, say, Towns appears to be. Is it is possible that I am underestimating
them? Sure. They are both very young. One of the key pieces of information that
we got this summer came via Reed on Darius’ Twitter, which was that Russell
increased his FTA rate a lot later in the season, largely by working the post.
Since a relatively low FTA rate is one of the things that might prevent Russell
from being a truly elite player on O, this is a pretty big deal. But if you
look at his overall package and his college numbers, I think he is more likely
to be a guy in the ASG John Wall category (although with different skills) than
a guard who can carry a contender with enough help. That doesn’t mean that I
don’t like Russell or that I think he was a bad pick. Far from it. I like the
guy as a player, and I think he will be quite good.
Specifics and History: Another thing that you are missing
because you are too busy with your various meta-narratives is that people who
don’t like the Mozgov and Deng deals are generally not pushing for the Lakers
to break up the young guys and bring in DeMarcus Cousins. Actually, in my case,
the opposite is true. You said that NBA history is on your side, but you miss a
key part of Lakers history. When Jerry West was getting the team back on track
after Magic had to retire, one thing that he didn’t do was import older players
and give them key roles. Worthy and Scott were around already, and there were a
few guys like Rambis and James Edwards around, but all the guys he brought in
and gave key roles—Van Exel, Divac, Campbell, Ceballos, Jones, Peeler, Lynch—were
young guys.
Now, this is a very different era, and the 1990s teams were
not down draft picks like this one is. But this is one reason that I would
rather have had Biyombo, or Ezeli, than Mozgov. I don’t see that it is
necessarily true that this organic growth process that you are touting requires
two older guys in the starting lineup. If the Lakers were going to drop big
money on a 5, then I would have preferred a guy like Biyombo, who is on the same
timeline with the young guys and is more mobile than Mozgov is, or a cheaper
option like Ezeli.
So, it comes back to the same thing: I think that Kupchak
and Walton think that they know something about Mozgov, and that he was the guy
among the options that they had. That is why they went after him in the first
three hours of FA. And if they are right, then I will be right here saying so.
KevTheBold says
new rr
There are too many point to contest, so I am forced to consider with whom I am speaking.
When I do that, I quickly realize that it’s a waste of time.
rr, you have attempt to foster this illusion of the down to earth, unemotional realist, when imo your opinions are dark emotional pessimism packaged in tissue thin polka dot wrapping, which you believe will cover you in any event.
Your amusing attempts to straddle the line, only make you out to be someone who imo, really doesn’t have a solid opinion on any subject this season.
At least the old rr, had his solid hate for the front office which at least gave you an identity.
A Horse With No Name says
KevTheBold new rr
Easy fellas. Take a water break.
AnonLakerFan says
_ Robert _ I fail to see how this comment is even remotely related to what Darius wrote? When did the discussion shift to contending?
new rr says
A Horse With No Name KevTheBold new rr
Horse,
No worries. Kev is being Kev and I am going to post what I want to within DS’s oversight, as usual. I really like DAR; I just don’t think he is going to be a superstar. No big deal.
new rr says
Darius Soriano new rr MT87
Amusingly enough, I was actually being supportive of you, in that you have not attempted to charge a subscription fee for people to come here, which is to your credit. That is one reason why I very rarely comment negatively on your posts or suggest topics, since you are providing the content gratis with a minimum of advertising. Whether you are getting offers to write for pay elsewhere is of course your concern and your concern only.
The overall point I was making is that since we are all as commenters putting stuff up for free as it were, I don’t think it is a great idea to say that someone else’s posts are boring and unoriginal. YMMV.
A Horse With No Name says
new rr A Horse With No Name KevTheBold
And new rr is just being new rr. Unoriginal content everywhere–lol. It’s all good.
Darius Soriano says
new rr Ah, I see what you mean.
david-h says
hey darius: so, what was the question? on yeah, could huertas beat out calderon as backup pg? I suppose he “could”. the real question should be could Soriano be getting paid for his thoughts, basketball-wise ? you really undersell yourself and that in and of itself is endearing and sometime in the near future should be revisited; seriously. and some of your followers here could be eligible for royalities.
Go lakers
MT87 says
new rr Darius Soriano MT87 Some ideas are boring and unoriginal and I’m not sure what money has to do with it. You seem more than willing to give and take criticism, and that was mine. It was pointed, but I don’t think it was unfair.
new rr says
MT87 new rr Darius Soriano
Some ideas are boring and unoriginal
As far as I’m concerned, we can only go forward.
—
Indeed.
As far as the money thing, we are just having a discussion. That’s it. FB comments are just comments–not meticulously prepared material.