Okay…so this just happened.
Lakers are trading Tim Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell to Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick Thursday, sources say.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 20, 2017
As I pick my jaw up off the ground, here are a few scattered thoughts that probably won’t do the gravity of what just happened justice. But I will try to anyway…
I am a D’Angelo Russell fan. I believe his talent is fantastic and that, as a just turned 21 year old playing the hardest position in the league to adjust to, he was making real strides as a player. I see his trajectory going upwards and expected, if not this next season, than at some point in the next 18 months, we were going to see his full potential come into focus as an elite scoring guard who also possesses the type of court vision and passing acumen which can be the hub of a really good offense.
And now the Lakers have traded him as, basically, the grease to dump the salary of Timofey Mozgov. Read that sentence again. Did you do that? Now please do it again. Thank you.
Now to the nuts and bolts of this.
A recent Kevin Ding column said that the Lakers have real concerns about how Russell responds to criticism with the implication that it impacts his coachability. I will take Ding’s comments at face value and assume this is true. I still think this is selling extremely low on Russell and not giving enough merit to how players can grow, mature, and evolve to become the best versions of themselves. The Lakers are selling short on Russell’s potential and doing so at a point so early in his career that I struggle to understand this move in a vacuum. I just cannot agree with giving up such a talent in this specific type of deal when looking at this through the prism of actual goods exchanged.
Which, of course, leads me to the obvious next question/statement: a trade like this must not have been made in a vacuum and, thus, what is it the Lakers have planned next? Let’s do this in bullet points because, why the hell not at this point:
- The Timofey Mozgov salary wasn’t just a bad deal, it was an albatross. In forecasting things out, his contract (along with Luol Deng’s) was going to impact the Lakers’ cap flexibility in every summer for the next three years. Getting it off the books isn’t just a big deal, it’s a huge deal that signals the confidence Magic Johnson and Rob Pelinka have in being able to attract high salaried star players to play for the Lakers.
- Brook Lopez (more on him in a minute) has a contract that expires in…the summer of 2018. Whether or not you believe the Lakers would be in position to sign LeBron James, Russell Westbrook, or DeMarcus Cousins, these are players who have a good chance of being free agents next summer. This cannot be understated: the Lakers must believe they have a chance at a player of this caliber next summer.
Speaking of Lopez, he can still play the game at a fairly high level. Last season the 29 year old big man averaged 20 points and 6 rebounds a game while shooting 48% from the field and nearly 35% from beyond the arc on over 5 attempts per game. We will have a post solely on what he brings to the table at a later time, but just know that he is still more than serviceable as a starting big man in this league and is flashing an evolving offensive game which can mesh well with the Lakers’ remaining talent.
So, if you’re scoring at home, here is the ledger from the Lakers’ perspective:
The Lakers are getting out from under one of the worst contracts in the league and acquiring a good (but not great) starting big man who can serve as a one year place holder. They clearly have some irons in the fire for future moves, ranging from Paul George lined up to plays on bigger free agents in the future. They also get the 27th pick overall, in a draft where there is likely to be some decent talent available at that point in the draft. They could also try to package the #27 and #28 picks to move up to the middle part of the draft, thought it’s unclear whether that is part of a plan or not. Also, it would not surprise me if the team used both of those picks in a deal for George.
What the Lakers give up, though, is a supremely talented young guard who is only going to get better. The list of players in their age 20 season who put up the stats D’Angelo Russell did this past season is small. Very small. Whatever you think of his current deficiencies, be it on the floor in terms of mental make up, have to measured against his age and the fact that he is nowhere near a finished product. To give up on him now is something I will have a hard time getting over, even if other moves make it something that is more understandable. Again, I really liked Russell as a player and wish him a great future in the league.
Now, a few closing thoughts (and more bullets!):
- Since Russell and George share an agent, some might wonder how this might impact the future of that potential deal. I would say, it’s unlikely it will at all and for two reasons. First, the Lakers have direct dialogue with Russell’s agent and will know how he feels about this move. If it was going to put George becoming a Laker in peril, I doubt this deal gets done. Second, Russell is now going to go the Nets, which just happens to be in NEW YORK CITY. While the Nets aren’t the Knicks in terms of fan following, he’ll get plenty of exposure in the biggest market in the league and will be the best young player and building block for them. From a visibility standpoint, Russell is going to do fine.
- I think this all but locks in Lonzo Ball as the Lakers’ pick. This team is now incredibly short on guards and need a lead ball handler/initiator even if they get George.
- One has to wonder how much Russell suffered from not being one of “Magic and Pelinka’s” guys. A new FO always comes in an makes changes because they have no loyalty to the previous regime’s moves. Was Russell a casualty of that? It wouldn’t surprise me.
- One last shout-out to Jim Buss and Mitch Kupchak who pilfered away future salary flexibility to sign Mozgov at 12:01am on July 1, 2016 to a contract that the Lakers needed to trade less than a year later, ultimately including a top-2 draft pick from just two years ago to facilitate the exit. I love Mitch (and am mostly neutral on Jim), but dammit, guys.
I’ll have more on all of this later. But, for now, WOW. I still can’t believe it. The new Lakers have officially arrived.
Tar Baby says
smh
Joel says
Imagine having to trade away the #2 pick from 2015 to dump a guy you signed just after the moratorium in 2016…
Tar Baby says
I’m not beholden to Russell, but he’s got to be worth more than cap space and LNJ (i.e. late first-rounder).
Anonymous says
That is why so many of us have been criticizing the Deng & Mozgov signings since last summer. (and receiving huge criticism for doing so!) If it eventually takes another hight first to do away with the Deng contract, what a hell of a price to pay for poor judgement on the part of Buss & Kupchak (a person that I previously had great confidence in).
As one of several people who have previously suggested the Lopez trade, he offers several advantages in addition to being just an expiring contract. Lopez is actually a very competent center. Not an all-star but very capable. With the Lakers also getting his Bird rights, the Lakers could consider resigning him—depending on how he fits with the team (and how quickly Zubac develops). At the very least, Lopez is a tradeable asset, whereas Mozgov (and Hibbert before him) were not. The arrival of Lopez strengthens the Center position. . But I wish the team could have sent out Clarkson or Randle instead. I was really looking forward to see how Ball and Russell would mesh on the court next season.
FredP says
All I can say is rehire Jim and Mitch so you can fire them again. Russell has a very bright future; Magic and Pelinka made a panic trade.
James Katt says
Russell did not have qualities that Magic wants in a player: gritty, high basketball IQ, unselfish
Anonymous says
gritty, high basketball IQ, unselfish = Lonzo!!!!
Tim says
WOW,
Lakers go rid of one bad contract (Mozgov) but cost them Russell. Lakers also get another first round pick which is what they wanted. Ball is likely the choice with the second pick. Lakers positioning themselves for 2018 free agency.
bmcburney says
Hey Darius, still think the Lakers FO doesn’t need any help from Jerry West?
Darius Soriano says
Never actually said that, if you were listening. I said that I didn’t know enough about why the current FO didn’t want him & I wasn’t going to project reasons in order to be mad. Sorry that I’d rather have more information than less.
bmcburney says
If Jerry West was in the room, I think, and you probably think as well, that this deal doesn’t happen. He would have threatened to quit or said something sarcastic or maybe something outright mean but, at a minimum, he would have forced Magic and Rob to defend the deal and there is no defense for this deal. Even if you proved to me to a mathematical certainty that this deal is necessary for some later move, it could have been done at the deadline after watching another year of development and watching Ball and Dlo play together. Even if it was necessary to do it right now, they could have gotten more for him if they had just lost Kevin Ding’s phone number. None of the Laker management have ever made these types of decisions or been in this type of role before. West has.
Wouldn’t you rather have had Jerry West in that room?
If you still say “no” all I can say is that I disagree. But you shouldn’t try to defend yourself or the Laker FO by claiming you or they want MORE information or are seeking MORE information. Keeping Jerry West out of the conversation reduces the amount of information and increases the level of agreement.
Rob says
Ball is in but did nick young pick up his players opinion?
A Horse With No Name says
This looks so effing bad. Maybe, just maybe, there is a method to the madness–that’s all I can hope for right now. Is there a series of brilliant moves that come into play right away and make our roster better this season? If not, why the hell wouldn’t they wait until next summer to make these moves? To give up on Russell this summer seems so premature . . . . I am sickened by the prospect of another dismal season and a questionable future.
Anonymous says
What get’s me is that Russell was really never given a chance to succeed with the Lakers. He was muzzled by Byron and did not get much of a chance under Luke (his average playing time actually was lower than the previous season until the last month). Imagine if he had Devin Booker’s green light with Phoenix. I agree the Lakers are selling short on Russell. Hoping he finds success with the Nets.
Tom Daniels says
They must be confident in getting a George deal done.
The one thing about Russell, who I think could be (may already be) a very good player, was that he played at a slow pace. Not quite SloMo Anderson, but there were times when I was yelling at my TV because he came close to 8 second violations, unguarded. He just didn’t tend to push pace. In the modern NBA, in what Luke wants to do, that may have been a big issue. It seems two coaching regimes were not impressed with his coachability and work ethic.
Absent the Mozzy deal there is no way they do this. But it looks like they just decided he wasn’t part of their vision of a finished team, they had a chance to clear some cap space, they have Ball incoming, so…..
Interesting to say the least.
Ken says
I think they sold Dlo too low. There had to be a better trade available out there for Dlo if they wanted to move on. Why not package him with the 28 to Indy. He was their 2nd best asset behind Ingram. I can only assume that there is a follow up move to this one that will made the Dlo trade make more sense. Either that or Magic really felt the need to dump this guy for reasons we just cannot see.
I want to trust the process here, but hard to make sense of this one so far.
Anonymous says
You’ve stated it quite well. Its hard to see why they gave him away. Wish we could have see him and Ball together before making a final judgement. But perhaps there were other factors we dont see.
But if we are talking about more cap space, the Clarkson contract (and one coming up for Randle pretty soon), will have a lot more cap space impact than Russell.
How much will the team have to give up to get rid of the Deng contract? I would be on the phone to Minnesota to talk about a trade for Rubio. If Ball is the selection at #2, it would sure be a stabilizing factor to have a good veteran starter/backup point guard.
Jay says
Wow hopefully this wasnt another bad move by the lakers
Buck Foston says
“Mozgov at 12:01am on July 1, 2016” – it’s almost like they were salting the field.
Slapping my head says
Darius, I’m a long time lurker, but never bothered to post…until now. I’m a big fan of your analysis and writing, and I completely agree with your positive assessment of Russell.
Now on to my question: let’s say this deal is all about getting two max FAs in 2018, which is probably right. Can you see any path, any two players, that can get the Lakers over GSW in the next four years? Even LBJ + another ’18 all-star and the current young guys would not be able to do it, so why would LBJ come into that situation?
R says
Yes, the Lakers are going shopping in 2018. PG and LBJ? Magic and Pelinka must like their chances.
Anonymous says
im sad…i loved russell i hope magic has something up his sleeve that i dont see i was LOVING the lakers youth movement and arguably the best piece of it is now headed to brooklyn…and the mozgov trade was possibly one of the worst signings in league history it just made no sense at all…not what i wouldve done but im gonna put my faith in magic and rob please dont make this any worse and trade my boy larry nance jr.
James Katt says
I like this move. Get rid of Moz.
D’Angelo Russell, despite being very good, is never going to be a superstar. The Lakers need 3+ superstars to compete against Golden State for years to come.
George Best says
This trade is so bad it makes me long for Jim Buss. Still can’t believe that was done.
RR says
1. I have a much higher opinion of Russell than some do, but as I have said, there is a casual/entitled vibe to how DAR plays. Magic seemingly has opinions to those of my buddy, and I expect that Magic’s own experience, when the Lakers moved Norm Nixon to “hand Magic the keys” influenced this move strongly. Magic obviously sees Lonzo Ball as the guy to hand the keys to.
2. I wouldn’t have done this if I ran the Lakers. I would have given Ball and Russell some time together, to see how it looked, them moved one if I thought I had to or could get a big return. I would have done this with Randle, or Clarkson, but not Russell. But I expect that Magic believes his gravitas/charm/cache etc. will get high-end FAs to sign with the purple-and-gold, so Russell will not matter. I hope he is right.
mattal says
RR — Mega Dittos.
Clearly Magic wasn’t enamored with Russell and didn’t see him as a long term fit as a SG opposite Ball. But even taking that into account — there’s no reason to make a move now or to sell low (and this feels like a sell low move). As you point out, Randle, who us up for an extension first, was a better choice to move in a deal such as this.
KevTheBold says
Though now it stings for anyone who believed in Russell, and you can count me as one of those, this could turn out to be a smart move.
That ankle weight of the Mozzy deal is gone; plus we have 20 ppg center, and another 1st round pick.
They seem to be going seriously for George, and clearing the books for 2018, when Lebron is up for grabs. They only need stretch Deng, and trade Clarkson and possibly Randle.
From what I hear Russell’s attitude when given advice, was a deal breaker for Magic, but who knows for sure.
I just hope he rises to his full potential in Brooklyn.
Joe says
Just want to mention that if Jim and Mitch did not sign Mozgov, this trade will not have happened. At least if the Lakers don’t like Russell, they can trade him for a higher pick.
Costly decisions by the old regime still haunt us.
Tar Baby says
They only haunt us if they are compounded by equally costly decisions.
Jim213 says
Dumb trade,
Moz + Randle should’ve been enough to get a deal done for Lopez. Literally sold the best chip/asset & shooter for beans on the dollar. They settled for a stretch 5 which should tell you that Randle may be on his way out too. Russell has potential but he failed to capitalize on the opportunity, ‘thus, no one should take things for granted.’
Sold too high on this trade, but if they can wheel and deal for Porzingis = JC + Randle and both late first rnd picks then have to overlook this dumb trade. No way Lebron leaves Akron (lol) to take a gamble on the Lakers or Flippers (especially if he’s unchallenged in the East and after getting shellacked by the Warriors).
Vasheed says
Would you take a kinda nice expiring rookie contract to the Lakers with a 3 year garbage contract attached? I thought the deal was fair.
Porzingis is a bonafide player. I’d be willing to part with either Ingram or the 2nd pick.
Jim213 says
You don’t trade your best shooter just to off-load a bad contract. That’s what the 28th pick could’ve been utilized for… I was a fan of Russell, but he never took his craft and time in Lakerland as seriously as he should’ve with all the off-the court distractions (while some question his work ethic). Randle+ should’ve been utilized (on this deal), especially since he’ll be a RFA (2018) and with the Lakers looking to off-load salary which goes for next yr too.
With Nick Young opting out, they literally need to sign SHOOTERS in FA. Porzingis be great, but doubt the #2 pick be utilized to nab him. I’d trade Randle+JC and both late picks (or 2019s 1st rnd pick) for Porzingis. He’s a talented future starting player and he be a solid addition at the 4 spot IMO (caters to his strengths). Lakers should’ve waited to deal Russell, always off-load your weakest links first as opposed to one of your best offensive players. Sure his demand may have been low (at the moment) but if things went accordingly he could’ve/should’ve increased his value next season.
Anonymous says
Stretch 5? Lopez? Do you even watch Basketball?
Jim213 says
Just rolling with the media jabber on Lopez being a stretch 5 and tho he went 34+% on 3PM out of 5+ 3PA’s a game he’s as close to being one (better than Randle at least lol).. You need to catch up with the times… this ain’t the 80s or 90s. It’s a shooters league.
BigCitySid says
I’ve stated for years Russel’s rookie seasson was sabotaged by the FO, coach Scott & Kobe, who
all agreed to highlight a circus sideshow instead of support a young developing star. Many want to
act like this wasn’t a factor in all that followed, but obviously it was.
SamSinister says
I don’t oppose the deal – it has good features, and is only bad if Russell becomes something great.
Russell has potential, for sure, and I respect Darius’ analyses of why that is the case.
But … “we’ll see”. The deal depends on how good Russell is in a year or two or three.
Drafting Ball (next to D-Lo) would mean unacceptably poor defense in the backcourt.
Russell’s defense and attitude / leadership / entitlement / etc. … maybe those traits are the frailties of youth that he’d grow out of, while improving into a budding star. Or … NOT. We don’t know.
But given those weaknesses, it doesn’t seem terrible to obtain the critically needed cap space, plus a first-rounder.
Lopez a nice enough bonus … I love Zubac a lot, but one more year of training wheels (i.e., behind Lopez) isn’t so bad.
R says
Well Fern, aggressive this is … but is it smart?
Well, that remains to be seen.
LT Mitchell says
Brilliant move! Magic and Pelinka are playing world class chess while the Russell homers are unable to see that sacrificing a knight will net a rook and a queen.
Magic clearly understand the type of players and chemistry needed to compete for championships. Russell did not fit that mold. Byron and Luke saw it, and obviously, Magic and Pelinka saw it as well. Ingram and Lonzo are untouchable because they fit that mold…..their work ethic, character, effort, leadership, doing the little things that don’t show up on the stat sheet, sacrifice on the court. These are the type of guys players want to follow….championship hearted players. Russell was far from it and he was a dead man walking as soon as Magic arrived. This notion that he was traded because of his connection to the prior regime is silly. Magic and Pelinka simply saw in Russell what his critics have seen since day one.
By next summer, Ingram will be heading into his third year, Lonzo into his second. Add Paul George and another superstar to the mix, and this team can become Golden State’s biggest threat.
Tar Baby says
You really think Ball, Ingram, George, LeBron, and Zubac/LNJ/Warm Body can challenge GSW?
jeff says
no. Your turn. What team can?
Chearn says
Yes, anything can happen
Davis luv III says
Exactly. I’d rec that again if I could
Moto says
Sold too low. Panic trade.
RR says
I am reminded of mattal’s succinct comment about the Jim Buss FO: they were trying to do much. I see the same possibility here. The Lakers apparently will be trying to:
clear cap space
stay out of the lottery
acquire Paul George
get set up for a big FA push in 2018
develop Ball and Ingram, both of whom are still 19 years old
All at the same time.
Vasheed says
I believe you are right in that there needs to be a clear plan. However, I don’t think that necessarily means you have to do only a few moves.
Tar Baby says
Two things about this REALLY kill me:
1) the Lakers deflated Russell’s value by benching him and changing his positions when he was playing his best ball of the season last year
2) they could have gotten this exact same deal at the trade deadline and still freed up cap space….maybe even better because Mozgov would have one less year on his contract.
Mid-Wilshire says
Personally, I’m surprised but not dismayed by this trade.
Despite the moderately horrified reactions of some fans, we probably won’t be able to gage the ultimate success of this deal for another year or two. One thing for certain, the Lakers will be very different next year…and even more different the following year.
CraigW. says
Magic is friends with Byron and Luke is his coach. Both questioned the attitude and leadership of Russell. Magic well knows the requirement of leadership for a PG. Russell ‘liked’ the tweet criticizing Ball. Looking back it is not too hard to see the bread crumbs in the snow, but I sure didn’t see this coming.
CraigW. says
Now for the trade part. Getting rid of the Mozgov contract was critical, but getting Lopez, who will fit beautifully with Walton’s scheme, is genius. Besides, we have him for one year and can then decide – as well as open up the ‘gate’ for two max free-agents.
Tar Baby says
I don’t know. Look at the potential outcome:
Ball, Ingram, George, max-FA, Zubac, LNJ and a few mid-level vets.
I just don’t see that team beating GSW in the next 3-4 seasons…even if they get LeBron. If they don’t get him, they might not even make it to the Conference Finals.
That was part of the logic of developing the core – they enter their prime just as GSW exits theirs.
CraigW. says
If we still have Randle, then I think the fit with Lopez will be perfect. We will have a 2nd team of Nance and Zubac. Our front court looks set for next year.
CraigW. says
Plus, if we get George I bet we buy two 2nd round picks off Philly to add some wing/forward talent.
When I entered more than one reasonable side paragraph, your system did not allow me to Post.
grumpy says
By itself, this trade looks really bad. I really hope there is some other move coming to make this palatable.
I’m not quite sure I understand the rush to get this deal done. In my opinion, it would have been better to experiment with a Lonzo and D’Angelo backcourt and see how it went. I really don’t think Russell’s value could have sunk lower. I’m sure the Nets, as asset starved as they are, would have made this deal later in the year.
Mid-Wilshire says
The next move directly related to this one may not come until the summer of 2018. That’s why I say that we won’t be able to gage the true value of this trade for about 2 more years.
If DAR becomes a near superstar, then we blew it. If not, and we nab Paul George in 12 months and Lonzo Ball pans out, then this will have been a brilliant move. Only time will tell.
Mattstrap says
The NBA, more than any other pro league, is superstar driven. Go back to Magic’s first title in 1980 and name a team that wasn’t superstar driven. You’ll find a few rare exceptions, the 2004 Hamilton/Billups Pistons the most obvious. To win a championship you can’t have a team of really nice players. You need at least one star, first and foremost, and to surround that guy or guys with some decent help. That’s the big picture plan here. Creating the cap space to get 2 max “stars” like George and LBJ and surround them with Ball and Ingram and the like. It’s a gamble, but I’d rather take a shot at the top than sit in lottery or 8th seed limbo.
KenOak says
Not a fan of this trade. I liked Russell’s game quite a bit and think we should have given him a chance to play with Ball. I only hope that this is a sign that there is a bigger fish or two on the horizon and that the rumors are true because if not…then this trade makes zero sense. We shall see.
bluehill says
Agree. The timing of the deal is curious. They don’t need the cap space this year and despite the issues with DLo’s effort, which I agree is a longer term problem, he was still improving and probably would have continued to improve next season if only because he would have another year of experience along with his teammates. If DLo improves, the FO still had the opportunity to use him as a sweetener to dump salary before the trade deadline. So, I’m trying to figure out why they needed to do the deal now except to get that 27th pick to package up for PG.
CraigW. says
Probably PG will not be in Indy at the trade deadline. Plus Magic may want to get PG acclimated in the coming year.
Mark Sigal says
100% agree, but it’s sadly evidence of Russell’s cluelessness about pecking order, and respecting the hierarchy of an organization. When Magic took over the team, he was pretty honest with the players about what was expected of them as Lakers. Russell’s tweet may be simple juvenile immaturity or a case of confusing defiance with performance, but for Magic, it was his Exit Stage Left move. I think it sends a clear message to everyone else. You have to earn your seat at the table.
drrayeye says
This was a trade I expected–but not quite this way. Brook will give us the right kind of center for a test year. The first round pick may be the final piece to get Paul George. Lonzo makes Russell redundant. Good to great move.
WishWash says
Lakers Nets Negotiations
Lakers: We Want Mozgov and Clarkson for Lopez and 22nd pick
Nets: NO
Lakers: We are doing you a favor here but we will do Mozgov and Randle for Lopez, 22nd pick and 27th pick
Nets: NO
Lakers: How about Mozgov and Randle for Lopez and 22nd pick
Nets: NO
Lakers: You are being unreasonable, our final offer is Mozgov and Randle for Lopez
Nets: NO
Lakers: Ok Ok, lets look at this from a different angle how about Mozgov and Russell for Lopez, 22nd pick and 27th pick
Nets: NO
Lakers: Clearly we were out of line with our last offer, will you do Mozgov and Russell for Lopez and 22nd pick
Nets: NO
Lakers: We are kinda new at this, would you please, pretty please with a cherry on top take Mozgov and Russell for Lopez and 27th pick
Nets: OK, but you are really twisting our arm here
Lakers: Yay now all we need is to get Paul George and Lebron??????????????????
Tom Daniels says
What the deal is in the end is Russell for the cap space to replace him.
sam surloff says
I was a DLO fan as well but this is a trade that needed to be made — they had to get rid of mozgov salary to move forward — that is accomplished plus they got a pick and an above average center with an expiring contract
now they can either draft two role players and maybe get lucky on one — package the two picks for a higher pick or of course in my mind package the picks and either randle or preferably clarkson for george
Mid-Wilshire says
At this point, I don’t see the Lakers trading Clarkson. If they do, they’ll have no one with experience to be a starting guard. I think the starting backcourt for next year will be Ball and Clarkson. If they trade Clarkson, you’ll end up with Tyler Ennis as a starting guard. That won’t work.
Andrew W says
Randle-Lopez >>> Randle-Mozgov
Getting Lopez frees up the post on offense. What we can get with the cap space and/or the pick will determine the success of this trade.
Current grade: C+ with potential to be an A if we can get 2 max contracts.
Chutch says
Seems Lakers did actually shop DAR to several lottery teams and there were no takers. Ramona reported that Dallas wouldn’t give up their #9 pick straight up for him.
If simply analyzing between the lines, I keep him. I agree that his age twenty numbers, smooth stroke, quick release and passing ability provide ample insight toward being an all star.
There must have been something else there. I hope he excels.
Stephen says
What better deal?
The previous regime allegedly shopped him in last yrs Draft and didn’t find anything to their liking.
Phoenix and Sac are looking for PGs,and they passed
The Mavs are looking for a PG and passed-true they want a pass first PG,still.
Detroit desperately needs shooting,are shopping their PG and their only decent shooter is a SG who wants big bucks,and they passed.
Miami needs a SG-and shooting in particular-and they passed.
And the big one,if Indy wanted him he’d be there-what does it say that a bottom of the Draft First is thought to be more valuable to nab Paul George than Russell himself.(Altho,theoretically the Lakers could turn around and trade Lopez and his expiring deal for George and the two Firsts,followed by a side deal of something like Stephenson for Randle.A player you traded for cannot be packaged w/another player for a while,but he can be traded by himself immediately.)
Aevi says
Though I agree that we sold too low, I’m curious as to what people see as D’Angelo’s ceiling, both alongside Lonzo and by himself. In 3 years, is he a Harden? A Lillard? A Conley? A Rubio?
RR says
I have given my opinion on this many times, but will again since you asked. Russell is not as big as Harden and gets to the line half as often or less. That was true when he was a freshman at Ohio State and when Harden was a freshman at Arizona State, and it is true now. Russell is not a jock in the Wall/Westbrook mode, and he can’t shoot like Nash or Curry.
So, I have always thought it was unlikely that he is going to be a Top-20 player. But the other side of it is that he has good size, passes well, shoots pretty well, and as noted has put up nice numbers for a guy his age. So, bad attitude or no, I expect that he will be around the league a long time and will be productive player, a 20 PER guy.
ED says
The Lakers are gambling they can replace Russell and whoever else they will trade,plus sign two all star quality FA in 2018 to max contracts. It`s a gamble that I`don`t think will pay off,and if Russell has an all star type year in 2017,if will be a fiasco. After this, even George may have second thoughts about joining the Lakers. All eyes are now on Clarkson and Randle.
Altemawa says
This trade move will make more sense (aside from Mosgov salary dump), once we get a solid star in return.
DAR was good, but too bad he didnt maximize his time to lead the team.
I hope he excels in his next assignment though.
Trade was both good and bad. Good that we unload the super bad deal of Mos (we should have unload Deng too), and Bad since we did not get more from DAR. Another pick would have sweeten this deal.
And as pointed out by Mid-Wilshire, this trade value will be all on DAR’s improvement for the next years. Our next move will tell.
Lon Shapiro says
I really wanted to believe that D’Angelo Russell could become a great player, but his only path was to become an offensive juggernaut like Harden. His lack of athleticism and consistent focus made him a horrible defensive liability, a fatal flaw in this post-Warriors world that could never be corrected. His inability to finish at the rim meant that if his shot wasn’t falling, he would kill the team’s chances to win games.
While I would have hoped to get more for him, the Lakers need to draft some guards that can play defense, create their own shot, and finish at the rim. After watching the NCAA tournament, I fell in love with Tyler Dorsey and was impressed by Sindarius Thornwell. Josh Hart and Derreck White also seem like perfect 3 and D guys. And even Frank Mason III could be a quick small guard who could become a good backup PG. All these guys will probably be second round picks.
Getting Lopez for Mozgov is actually a steal. They are getting a guy with a 20+ PER in exchange for a limited player who was a drag on the team in almost every situation.
If this trades sets up the Ball pick and the eventual FA addition of Paul George, the Lakers could become a playoff team: Ball-Clarkson-George-Ingram-Lopez, with Nance, Black, Zubac, Randle and some 3 & D rookies off the bench.
They’re not going to contend for a title, but they’ll be more competitive, and the cap space will pave the way for another free agent.
LaDude says
Good trade. I doubt russell becomes an all star, slow, unathletic with terrible defense won’t work in today’s nba. 2 ownerships and 2 coaches seem to agree.
Alexander says
If we keep the young assets and wait for PG and he doesn’t come to the Lakers, we’ll still have that cap space and will be much improved. [Lonzo is going to transform our program and Lopez is a good player. Everyone else is improving, too]. We will still be an attractive destination with high likelihood of signing a Boogie Cousins or even LBJ with that space. I would make a modest offer for PG and hold.
Dom says
DLO is cursed with the “P” word…Potential. The NBA is a make or miss league and DLO had too many misses. He was immature. Frankly I thought JC would be the one traded but clearly Magic and Rob see a maturity and work ethic from JC they didnt see with DLO. His tweet about Ball was just another example of his not getting it. Magic Kobe Worthy BScott Cap are all old school, you gotta EFHUtton it in LA, for those of you too young to understand the reference you gotta earn it. DLO just didnt think he had too. PT is earned in practice not in games. The FO is looking at who is in the gym early, who is staying late, who is working and developing their game. Luke Magic and Rob are not stupid or blind. Collectively they have a basketball IQ slightly higher than those of us here. I like DLO but when you compared his effort to even that of BIngram he just seemed like a millenial. His didnt stink and he was the shizzle. As a former resident of Brooklyn he is gonna hate it there. NYers hate lazy and he might want to at least give the appearance he gives a …… Talent is important but Ill take work ethic and effort all day long, so too apparently do Magic and Rob. BLopez is an upgrade from Timo for sure, Getting a 20 PPG big and getting rid of that contract..Im not mad. Im sure the FO isnt done, Im hoping that something works out with PG13 sooner than later but I think a clear message was delivered to not just DLO but some of the other hold overs from MItch and JIm there a new sheriff in town and you are gonna do things his way or you go to hell (Brooklyn).
Minor Threatt says
Like other posters, I would have been curious to see what a Ball/DLo backcourt looked like. But at Chutch points out, the reporting (from Ramona Shelburne, who, while clearly in the Jeanie camp, is usually pretty reliable) is that Russell was offered to other teams in the lottery, who refused.
This is a loaded draft with several good PG prospects; we don’t have all the alleged trade details (were they all, like the Dallas deal, straight up?); and it looks like the Nets trade was selling low. But if Shelburne’s reporting is accurate, this tells you something about how Russell is perceived around the rest of the league. We like to think: a future All-Star combo guard who put up record-setting offensive numbers for his age and position. They may think: a poor defender with balky knees who seems to have an attitude problem, and is a couple of years away from a possible max contract.
Now I have to wonder if DLo’s name came up in any Paul George scenarios, and what the response was? Or is the Nets deal confirmation that, outside of Ingram and/or the No. 2 pick, there was no other asset on the Lakers roster that would make a team swallow the Mosgov contract — and thus, it was Russell or bust?
5D2 says
I think there is another trade coming. This one is just paving the way. There are agents and tons of people involved behind doors. If we just take the face value, this trade is one-sided like Kwame for Gasol. I really hope Magic and Rob have something good. Someone close to DLO needs to take whatever smart phone he has away from him. DLO just has not been smart with his phone.
Renato Afonso says
I have a bit of mixed feI have a bit of mixed feelings about this trade.
The first negative feeling is: how could the Lakers value the 2017 #2 pick over DAR? Regardless of fit and skill, DAR is a known commodity for the Lakers (plenty of data on all aspects of him as a player) and Lonzo is not a known NBA commodity. In a vacuum, this is a big risk taken by the FO.
The second negative feeling is: regardless of this year’s pick, to us Lakers fans, DAR is more valuable than that. He is at least as valuable on court as Brook Lopez but he still has potential while Lopez has started his decline as a player.
The third negative feeling is: assuming Lonzo Ball is the pick, wouldn’t it be worth seeing what they could do together on offense? Noone was expecting a big improvement in the win column but, on paper, it could be fun to watch. Good shooting, ball movement…
The fourth negative feeling is: why are the Lakers including a player picked #2 overall just two years ago in this kind of salary dump that shouldn’t be needed in the first place (everyone complained about the length of the Mozdeng contract)? If the FO didn’t panic last offseason, there would be no need for such a trade.
However, once the dust has settled you get to realize a couple of things that matter…
The first positive feeling is: roster building requires a lot of thought and effort and seldom does a trade happen in a vacuum. This is only the first roster move and only after the roster is completed can an individual trade be judged.
The second positive feeling is: the Lakers have plenty of data on DAR. They also deal with him on a daily basis and maybe, just maybe, Byron Scott was right about him. If this trade was made by the old regimen, with Byron as coach, I would be very concerned. However, if the coaching staff and the FO change and the criticism of said player remains the same, then maybe there’s a reason for it.
The third positive feeling is: maybe the defense was also a concern. A backcourt of Lonzo Ball and DAr with Clarkson off the bench would’ve been murdered. I’ve long said that the JC+DAR pairing doesn’t work on defense and advocated trading DAR as he could net a better player in return. I was partially right. JC’s defense seems to be getting worse…
The fourth positive feeling is: there’s no reason to think that the new FO didn’t try to make a better trade and they simply couldn’t find a trading partner. Until proven otherwise, this was the best deal available and the only thing we can evaluate is if it would’ve been better to stand pat. I personally believe that any trade that helps the Lakers flexibility going forward without giving up an all star level player is a good trade. DAR is not an all star capable of getting the Lakers to WCF or the Finals. He may become one but the chances are that he never gets to that level (not judging DAR’s ability but rather the odds of any player achieving such level).
The fifth positive feeling is: in a trade, any outgoing player is only as valuable as the trading partner believes he is or as the rest of the league perceives him to be (so that he may become a trading chip for a future trade). DAR is clearly overvalued by the Lakers fans. It is natural to grow fond of Lakers’ draftees, hence believing he can become a world class player thus wanting always more in return for that player. If the reports are right and the best draft pick the Lakers could get in return for DAR is the 9th pick, then it speaks volumes of what the rest of the league thinks of him.
The sixth positive feeling is: there seems to be a consensus that this was a good trade for both teams involved. DAR is always described as a young player with ability but lots of question marks about his work ethic and a bit immature. Maybe Brook Lopez is the best player involved and becomes a key part of the Lakers future. We’re acting like Brook Lopez is a trade exception…
So, despite the mixed feelings I still believe this is a step in the right direction and it seems there’s a plan to properly assemble a winning roster.elings about this trade.
The first negative feeling is: how could the Lakers value the 2017 #2 pick over DAR? Regardless of fit and skill, DAR is a known commodity for the Lakers (plenty of data on all aspects of him as a player) and Lonzo is not a known NBA commodity. In a vacuum, this is a big risk taken by the FO.
The second negative feeling is: regardless of this year’s pick, to us Lakers fans, DAR is more valuable than that. He is at least as valuable on court as Brook Lopez but he still has potential while Lopez has started his decline as a player.
The third negative feeling is: assuming Lonzo Ball is the pick, wouldn’t it be worth seeing what they could do together on offense? Noone was expecting a big improvement in the win column but, on paper, it could be fun to watch. Good shooting, ball movement…
The fourth negative feeling is: why are the Lakers including a player picked #2 overall just two years ago in this kind of salary dump that shouldn’t be needed in the first place (everyone complained about the length of the Mozdeng contract)? If the FO didn’t panic last offseason, there would be no need for such a trade.
However, once the dust has settled you get to realize a couple of things that matter…
The first positive feeling is: roster building requires a lot of thought and effort and seldom does a trade happen in a vacuum. This is only the first roster move and only after the roster is completed can an individual trade be judged.
The second positive feeling is: the Lakers have plenty of data on DAR. They also deal with him on a daily basis and maybe, just maybe, Byron Scott was right about him. If this trade was made by the old regimen, with Byron as coach, I would be very concerned. However, if the coaching staff and the FO change and the criticism of said player remains the same, then maybe there’s a reason for it.
The third positive feeling is: maybe the defense was also a concern. A backcourt of Lonzo Ball and DAr with Clarkson off the bench would’ve been murdered. I’ve long said that the JC+DAR pairing doesn’t work on defense and advocated trading DAR as he could net a better player in return. I was partially right. JC’s defense seems to be getting worse…
The fourth positive feeling is: there’s no reason to think that the new FO didn’t try to make a better trade and they simply couldn’t find a trading partner. Until proven otherwise, this was the best deal available and the only thing we can evaluate is if it would’ve been better to stand pat. I personally believe that any trade that helps the Lakers flexibility going forward without giving up an all star level player is a good trade. DAR is not an all star capable of getting the Lakers to WCF or the Finals. He may become one but the chances are that he never gets to that level (not judging DAR’s ability but rather the odds of any player achieving such level).
The fifth positive feeling is: in a trade, any outgoing player is only as valuable as the trading partner believes he is or as the rest of the league perceives him to be (so that he may become a trading chip for a future trade). DAR is clearly overvalued by the Lakers fans. It is natural to grow fond of Lakers’ draftees, hence believing he can become a world class player thus wanting always more in return for that player. If the reports are right and the best draft pick the Lakers could get in return for DAR is the 9th pick, then it speaks volumes of what the rest of the league thinks of him.
The sixth positive feeling is: there seems to be a consensus that this was a good trade for both teams involved. DAR is always described as a young player with ability but lots of question marks about his work ethic and a bit immature. Maybe Brook Lopez is the best player involved and becomes a key part of the Lakers future. We’re acting like Brook Lopez is a trade exception…
So, despite the mixed feelings I still believe this is a step in the right direction and it seems there’s a plan to properly assemble a winning roster.
CraigW. says
Darius – I think you are having some problems with long entries in your software.
Mid-Wilshire says
Correct. Craig, I had the same problems.
Anonymous says
There is a reason hardly any team wanted D’angelo. Laker fans simply over value him. Lonzo will be a better player and most importantly Lonzo will come in prepared to be a lead guard. Great move by the Front office
Vasheed says
I loved Russell’s game but I think this was a good trade. Mozgov was an enormous contract with little fit in Luke’s system. I think Russell was a reasonable demand to dump that contract. The Lakers get a better Center on a 1 year rental and another pick which I believe Magic needs to keep costs down finding a roleplayers.
I think Darius’s reasoning that Ball will be the pick makes sense. However, I am still not certain about that. Keep in mind he has contacted every team about trading down, down to the Kings who all rebuffed him. If so the Lakers don’t want Ball and neither do those teams. I think Ball could fall out of the top 5. We will see soon enough.
D. Peterson says
No one has mentioned DAR’s injury situation. At just 21 years old he’s got tendenitis in his kneee, has been taking Mamba plasma injections, and has missed a decent chunk of games as a result. That had to have played into the trade calculus if the decision was even questionable for Magic and Pelinka. Bad attitdue + questionable work ethic + slow + injuries = Hello Brooklyn
Old Timer says
Good move. Trade goes both ways Lakers shed salaries + Russell, they gained stretch 5 who can spread the ball. Speaking of Ball and George, then Russell becomes redundant.
Overall, DLo upsides are good outside shooter and being young w/ bright future. Downside – erratic, inconsistent and could not jell team cohesiveness which the main role of a PG. It may have been a little bit premature in trading him but Nets FO would not if DLo is not part of the trade. They need star PG to motivate their fans, while Earv & Rob are just starting their chemistry build up of Lakers Showtime II.
Zachary Young says
Let me preface this comment by sayin’ I have never been high on D’Angelo Russell but you guys are trippin’, this is a GREAT deal! Get rid of Russell to make room for a point guard who might actually be worthy of a number 2 pick and has shown a propensity for leadership and ability to make others better that D’Lo NEVER had. Get a starting quality big with outside shooting ability on a one year rental, get rid of Mozgov’s horrible contract AND have a ton of cap space next summer? That is a win/win/win! I love this deal for the Lakers
CraigW. says
Ramona Shelburne comments on DLo:
– Maturity not improving and visible through two coaches.
– Defensive liability when paired with either Ball or Clarkson.
– Can shoot, but can’t get to the basket.
– Does he make his teammates better???
The last item was likely the straw that broke the camel’s back. His job as PG is to make his team better – that means others as well as himself.
Finally, as D. Peterson said, DLo is beginning to develop an injury history and may become a 24 min/game player – forcing him into a rotation role.
Old Timer says
It appears Magic and Rob are more interested in improving the team bet/ player A vs. player B than being loyal in developing youth and assuring patience. Lakers is the center of NBA and we lost that image after 2010 Championship and Kobe. Therefore, there are no indispensable players including Ingram if the prize of the trade is great in building a super team. Magic and Rob are filling up the positions, 1 & 5 will be secured, better in offense with PGBall on the run and defense in Brooks. Next position is 3,4 & 5. Can Ingram and Randle stabilize these positions? Well, the sound bites are becoming louder that the Super players would like to assemble in LA. Why? Magic is back and Olympics will be here in a few years. New stadiums are being built including Ballmer new hub therefore good money becomes available as the LA fever,is heating up. As Laker fans, we should be excited with the future than be disappointed with DLO’s exit. Russell was not even as good as Norm Nixon maybe at par with Nick, the quick. Not enough for the purple and gold brand whose goals are Championships and Hall of Famers.
James Katt says
I’m excited. This is a totally positive trade for the Lakers.
Next in line: Luol Deng in a trade to Indiana along with Julius Randle and a 1st round pick for Paul George.
A team with Brook Lopez, Paul George, Ingram, Lonzo Ball, may make the playoffs.
They would also clear nearly all of their cap space to make room for Lebron James and Russell Westbrook.
This would create a 3-superstar team that can compete against Golden State for several years to come. Add other missing players who are gritty, high basketball IQ, unselfish (Magic’s criteria for players), and you bring back the Lakers of old.
CraigW. says
We have one youngster that shows a possibility of becoming a superstar – Ingram. Let’s not totally dump all of our own to bring in the hired guns. Teams need balance – and that includes salaries – to last for several years.
Chearn says
I am sorry to see D’Angelo leave the Lakers as he has potential as an offensive juggernaut. People with a myopic view of Russell in that vein have a tendency to overlook his flaws. He lacks a motor, the feel for the ebbs and flows of a game—for instance when to take a defensive stance to thwart an opponent’s scoring outburst, or a team sense of urgency to get points on the board. His lateral moves both with the ball and on defense are virtually latent.
In the NBA, nothing is given to rookies, they are mandated to earn playing time. Byron Scott was the first coach to encounter D’Angelo’s resistance to constructive criticism, and thus spent the majority of his rookie season on the bench participating in childish pranks. Does no one recall how initially Russel and Clarkson were a duo but Jordan increasingly separated himself from D’Angelo? Nash and the coaching staff marveled at Jordan’s willingness to soak up knowledge when he gained the opportunity to showcase his drive for sustainability in the NBA. On the other hand, I’ve questioned what any other rookie given the reigns to an organization would do in D’Angelo’s position, “What would Kobe do (WWKD)?”
History has to be an indicator of a player’s ability to navigate the NBA both mentally and physically. In recent history, the Lakers had a young center named Andrew Bynum with tremendous capabilities, albeit, fragile knees and a mental makeup of false superiority. He, too, played his way off the Lakers roster, and eventually out of the league. Hopefully, Russell will not follow that blueprint and patterns his exit from the team that drafted him along similar lines as Andrew Wiggins. When players make the decision to enter the NBA early, they have to do so with the knowledge that they possess two or more of the following:
1) Skills that translate to the NBA: offense, defense, rebounding, basketball IQ, 3-pt specialist, and NBA ready body.
2) Work ethic.
3) Mental dexterity (handle arena atmospheres both at home or away).
4) Multi-media savvy.
5) Coachable.
6) Set to compete against men.
7) Quick studies.
8) Develop team chemistry.
9) An exit strategy from the league.
I’m sure others exist, but you get the idea.
League management is blatantly aware of the two contracts with a stranglehold on the Lakers payroll. Magic and Pelinka were in an untenable position in that regards and faced with the inevitable notion that something of value had to be tethered with one of those contracts to extricate themselves from that boondoggle. Obviously, Russell held enough league value for the Nets to make that deal.
Thank you, D’Angelo Russell!
Doug says
Deep down I think this was a good trade. But it does hurt a little thinking Russell might turn out to be special. That’s up to him now though. If it’s in him, if he has “IT” then he’ll try his best wherever. If not then Magic and Byron (and Luke?) were right. I hope he matures and reaches his potential. (And I also hope the reverse LAL vs. BKN effect takes place and he has bad games against us.)
Kevin says
Think Russell is a talented player, but we’ve heard to many times about his work ethic and know it all attitude. He might become a star, but maybe he wouldn’t have done it LA.
Anonymous says
Still a terrible trade, and the trade was not necessary. Lakers had a team that would have gotten 5-10 games better every year for 8-10 years and would have had the cap space to sign pg next year and give up nothing. Now, we can only hope that we get pg right away and that magic doesn’t give away the farm again to get him. If you give up Randle this early in his career, two years in(first year didn’t count) then you are possibly making a huge mistake. Look at the conditioning he is in now and the effort he is exhibiting in a contract year. Magic will give away e farm now to get a player one year early. Watch as he gives away Randle and pick 27 and 28, or even worse Randle and Clarkson and the two picks, or even the unforgivable pick number 2.
And who will your power forward be now Magic? Nance Jr., who has yet to play a full season without a significant injury. And Pelinka was qualified how? Hey, I was an agent for a few big stars……great, lets have you run one of the greatest organizations in all of sports. Freaking idiots, and let’s turn away Jerry West who has helped build championship teams for the Lakers and the Warriors. And let’s lose his son in the process, Ryan, who has done an amazing job scouting in the last couple of years.
Samer Habbas says
Everybody out here is acting like Russell was putting up crazy numbers and leading us to wins. We sucked. I don’t see much hope with these guys with the exception of Ingram. Dlo’s offensive stats were fine but he played zero d, can’t finish at rim, and slow. In a redraft he’d not the 2 pick now so who cares if he was picked 2. You gotta give to get and the Moz contract was that bad. Shocked anybody would touch it. Now we are free to shop and I think unlike Mitch and Jim, Magic and Pelinka have pull to get stuff done.
Mid-Wilshire says
I agree with much of what Samer says. I would only offer this slight correction: DAR’s offensive stats were not “fine.” His overall shooting percentage in his rookie year was 41%. Last year he shot 40.5%. Also his assist to TO ratio has never been good. In his rookie year he averaged 3.5 assists per game vs. 2.5 TOs. Last year he averaged 4.8 assists vs. 2.8 TOs.
These are not good numbers. In short, DAR has a ways to go before he becomes All Star material. He may get there. But right now, he’s a long ways from becoming the next Chris Paul. And you’re right: his defense is pathetic.
A Horse With No Name says
Glad I got over the shock of the deal and had time to digest the unexpected content. I was going to offer a measured take after my hot take yesterday. No need though: this board rocks. Great commentary above all over the place. Thanks bros!
I’m hopeful that the larger context of the trade will come into focus with much better optics as the draft and free agency play out. I really don’t want to overpay for George right now, but getting his Bird rights is probably worth it . . . .
LordMo says
Lol, Here is Ol’ LordMo…
For all you who thought DAR was the next great Lakers star. Told you most of these guys would not be here when the Lakers make a run. Also, been telling you that DAR was way better off the ball than with it in his hands. What did DAR in with Magic was attitude and work ethic. He had really damaged himself within the Lakers organization. Magic might be a jovial person at heart but he is an assassin in disguise. I’m sure he listened, talked to and watched DAR extensively. DAR might actually do better an environment were the expectations are not so high then be ready once he matures…there is no doubting his talent. I think this is really a case of Magic just figured it was going to take DAR too long to get it. Lonzo in that area is light years ahead of DAR. Overall, I think it was a good move by the Lakers… painful because the kid is a good player but we are getting another pick in a loaded draft to dangle for PG-13 and we have a legit 5 now.
Next up…. Randle! Remember when I said Nance was going to end up being the starting PF?
Alan says
I certainly respect everyone’s views on Russell’s value to the team, but I’m thrilled with the trade. We get a center that can shoot as well as Russell from three and played the position better than Mozgov for a lot less money. Lopez brings a positive attitude to the team that is far better than the two players leaving. The coaching staff and front office don’t think very highly regarding Russell’s attitude, defense and character, so I will defer to their judgement.
There are no shortage of players in the draft that can easily replace Russell’s defense and shooting.
The other rumor out there is to swap places with Phoenix from second to fourth, they take Deng and provide a first round pick next year where the Lakers have no draft. Presumably Phoenix takes Ball and the Lakers take the next person on their list on this deep draft. Both bad contracts are gone along with a guard who has fallen out of favor, the Lakers pick up a first next year and a guard like Fox. To me, this would be a great trade as well and I hope it works out.
Remember, the Lakers we’re the third worst team in the NBA last year, time to get better…next year players like Westbrook are probably going to be available and I would feel a lot better with him on the team than Russell.