Fans love summer league. Lakers fans, especially. The proximity of Las Vegas to Los Angeles makes the trek to sin city worthwhile for fans of the forum blue and the result is a packed Thomas and Mack center with fans chanting for Larry Nance Jr. or damn near rushing the floor when my favorite exiled guard hit’s a game winner. It’s a great environment and if you’re a fan of any NBA team — but especially a Lakers fan — making this trip at least once is worth your time.
This is even more true this year, when the Lakers will have a buzz surrounding them due to the arrival of Lonzo Ball and the return of Brandon Ingram. Add in Ivica Zubac and David Nwaba also returning along with Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma making their rookie debuts, the Lakers have six young players every fan is excited to see play — and one the players themselves should be confident in to do some damage.
That said, I’d also like to pump the brakes on printing your “Lakers 2017 Summer League Champs” shirts.
Summer league is weird.
It’s a bunch of young guys with a range of abilities and veteran long-shots trying to prove themselves and show out enough to get recognized and catch on somewhere long term. Either in the NBA, Europe, or even the G-league. They might be hunting a training camp invite or just wanting to play well enough to be remembered and get on a team’s radar for the future.
Remember, too, these guys have never played meaningful basketball together and most of them just started practicing as a unit less than a week ago. In other words, there’s things you can glean from these games, but I wouldn’t call it NBA basketball, exactly. It’s more like organized pick up with scouts and team personnel watching. It gives the assistant coaches who run the show a chance to sharpen their skills and, for some of the players who will surely make their rosters, a chance to get their first on-court experience and exposure to the team’s principles and schemes — even if they are watered down/simplified versions.
This can all provide value and insight, but cannot under any circumstances be taken as gospel or truth about what players are or will be. There’s a mythical story about how Greg Ostertag “dominated” Tim Duncan at summer league when Timmy was a rookie. That story has been somewhat debunked, but Duncan did offer some choice quotes about his experience during his summer introduction to the NBA — as told to Lang Whitaker over a decade ago:
ME: I heard before your rookie season you played summer league and Ostertag killed you in a game. They were talking about how some guys come out of college and it takes them time to adjust.
TIM: He threw my sh*t into the first and second row a couple of times. Jermaine (O’Neal) destroyed me. He was with Portland, was real young…
ME: But he’d already been in the League for a while?
TIM: Yeah, he destroyed me, and Tag threw my stuff into the first couple of rows a few times.
ME: It takes you time to adjust to the speed, or what?
TIM: I don’t even know what it was, to be honest with you. I just wanted to get the experience of playing against NBA players. I’d been in college for four years and that was great, but it’s a different speed, it’s a different strength, it’s a different set of players, and I wanted to play as much as possible, so I jumped in the league and I thought it helped me a bunch, it helped me tremendously.
So, yeah. I repeat — this venue can offer some value. Just don’t confuse the results with having more meaning than the process. The rookies are here to get their first taste of the league and the 2nd and 3rd year players are here to sharpen their skills and put some of that summer work they’ve been doing into practical application. That might mean the team wins. It might also mean the guys you want to play well, do. It might also mean some guys struggle.
And all of it might offer strong emotions in the moment — just remember to make sure that moment is fleeting. July is not November. Take the good and the bad with healthy heaping of salt. With that out of the way, here are some things I’ll be watching for when the Lakers suit up, starting today (Friday) in Vegas…
- How does Lonzo Ball’s game translate to this environment? Ball is one of the more unique prospects to enter the league in some time and with that comes questions about how effective he can be at this level compared to at UCLA. There’s also questions about how pronounced his weaknesses are and whether some of what people think he cannot do is really just him avoiding those plays for more prolific options. So, I want to see him run some P&R. I want to see him operate in isolation some. I also want to see him pass ahead, go coast to coast, and be a spot up option. His game will get scrutinized like few other prospects in this environment, but that comes with the territory.
- Can Brandon Ingram look like he’s “too good for summer league”? When D’Angelo Russell returned to Vegas after his rookie season, he looked like a different player. Much more confident in his ability, in more control, and with a better understanding of how to operate at this level. Brandon Ingram played over 2,000 NBA minutes last year. He should, in theory, be similar. That said, Ingram is actually younger than some of the rookies he’ll be playing against! And even with his improved experience level, I’m interested in seeing how that all translates. I will say, I expect him confident and to be in attack mode much more than he was last year.
- One other Ingram thought — how’s his jumper look? He’s reportedly been tweaking his jumper some, so I want to see how it looks even if it’s not going in as much. Mostly, I want to see his feet settled more and whether his release is consistent and comes with more rotation on the ball. Ingram could sometimes shoot a knuckler or a ball with not as much spin. I’d like to see if that changes.
- Ivica Zubac had a nice showing in Vegas last year and I expect to see him build on that. However, he’s more of a player where I hope to see him play a little bit out of his comfort zone in an attempt to grow his game. Can he take/make a few threes? Can he dive hard in the P&R and finish with power? What do his passing skills look like? Can he play higher in the P&R defensively and use angles to curb dribble penetration? We know Zubac can score in the post, hit floaters out of the short roll, and hit spot up 16 footers. But his utility as a pro in the long term will depend on how these other areas of his game grow. I’m not looking for amazing strides in any given area — Zubac is only 20 years old. But some positive steps in any/all of these areas would be nice.
- Regarding Hart, Kuzma, and Bryant I just want to see how they adapt to this level of play, how confident they are, how they compete, and whether they have any of those flashes that make you get up and say “I think the Lakers might have something with this guy.” We’ve seen that with every Lakers draft pick dating back to Julius Randle’s draft, save for Anthony Brown — who fizzled as a shooter and didn’t have enough ball skills to compensate. Be it some good shooting, some impressive defense, some open court skill, or some craft around the hoop, guys can often just make a handful of plays that stick with you. I wonder if any of this year’s rookies provide any, but my hope is that they do.
- In terms of the rest of the roster…yeah, I’ve got nothing for you. Is there a possibility one or more of these guys gets a camp invite? Sure. One or two might even end up on the newly branded South Bay Lakers (formerly the D-Fenders) or on a two-way contract with the Lakers. If that happens, I’ll have more information then. But, for now, this is about the 3 returning players (Ingram, Zubac, and Nwaba) and the 4 draft picks (Ball, Kuzma, Hart, and Bryant). Those are the players who should get the majority of the minutes and they’re the ones I’m most interested in seeing on the floor.
After saying all that, I’ll just say that it’s time to enjoy some Lakers basketball. Or, you know, sorta Lakers basketball. We’ve not seen any of them play since April and I’m excited and interested in seeing how they perform and, maybe more importantly, how they compete out there. Magic Johnson, Rob Pelinka, and Luke Walton have all preached about a culture of competitiveness and fun. If nothing else, I hope to see that reflected in these games.
First up is tonight (Friday) at 5:30pm against the Clippers. You can watch on Spectrum Sportsnet or on ESPN. Enjoy.
Fern says
And apparently our revamped young core is good enough to be the heavy favorites to win the summer league championship. That have to count for something…
lil pau says
Summer League… where Devean George looks like a first-ballot Hall of Famer. How I long for the summer league greats of old, with unforgettable names like God Shamgod and Cookie Belcher.
Go Lakers!
Clay Bertrand says
“But, for now, this is about the 3 returning players (Ingram, Zubac, and Nwaba) and the 3 draft picks (Kuzma, Hart, and Bryant). Those are the players who should get the majority of the minutes and they’re the ones I’m most interested in seeing on the floor.”
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Darius, I think you’re missing this one other guy…….the FACE OF THE FRANCHISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let’s see if Lonzo shows some of what we hope he can be or whether he is as Don Maclean claims, a taller Kendall Marshall (who ironically will be playing tonight for the Clippers). Lets see if Marshall and Ball both impact the game to the same degree.
Ok, back to Rodney Stuckey Watch. The Lakers have just GOTTA land Stuckey……..
Darius Soriano says
Ooops. Hahaha. I’ve fixed that.
Chris J says
“And apparently our revamped young core is good enough to be the heavy favorites to win the summer league championship. That have to count for something…”
Not really.
The sports books always stack the odds in a manner that they hope will result in an equal number of bets being placed on each side of the action. That limits their risk, and either way they’ll at minimum keep a percentage of the wagers. Las Vegas is a Lakers town so it’s natural for the books to expect a lot of bets on the Lakers, especially with the Lonzo hype. Hence, greater odds on the Lakers, all to deter too many people from betting their way.
People pay too much attention to preseason odds, as if they’re solely an indicator of a team’s strength or weakness. Sometimes that’s the case, but they’re really more about trying to entice people to bet away from the popular track — AKA the favorite — to move the money closer to that desired 50-50 ratio.
Fern says
That was *sarcasm*. I don’t bet so i couldn’t care less about Vegas odds…
Chris J says
If it was meant to be funny, so be it. Didn’t read that way.
Tom Daniels says
I remember seeing Van Excel in a summer league game, I think in Irvine, and he was electric, he jumped out at you and it was clear – THIS GUY is an NBA player. That’s what I like to watch for. Who seems like they don’t really belong in this pickup game among very good college player? Beyond that, it is just fun to watch basketball in the summer and to try to see if Thomas Bryant looks like there is anything real there to build on or if he just Chuck Nevitt with a 3 pointer.
Clay Bertrand says
Oh Boy………first NEVITT mention in AGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ; )
Nevitt was 7’5″!!!!!! I still remember him hitting a legit skyhook and the whole Forum went crazy!!!!!
Bryant is interesting. He hasn’t signed his deal yet I imagine because perhaps the new 2 way contract could be in play but I think he is still gonna play in Summer League. I would have loved to see Tom Crean’s comments about Bryant. Crean obviously was his coach at IU and he was doing analyst work on The Vertical’s draft coverage. I think they didn’t do 2nd round though.
Crean is a big time College coach and his perspective was very informative. He always pulls for his Indiana guys but I’m curious as to what he had to say about Bryant.
Could Bryant be a Speights type of player with better rim protection?? Does he lean more traditional 5 or can he swing the modern Stretch4/5?? How well does he get up and down the court??? How well does he switch out on the PnR???? Can’t wait to see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nevitt Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
dxmanners says
If Lonzo plays half this well, the world may explode. Fan of KM ever since this night, I wish him well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl0_8DPmV3M
Concerned says
Don’t even want to think about Kendall Marshall comparisons. I want Alonzo to have a much higher ceiling and be in the league in five years.
Old Timer says
Poor coaching and D is missing with lots open three’s for Clips. Magic is already worried!
Anonymous says
Mist of the Lakers talent is on their summer league team. If they struggle against a Clipper team with zero NBA talent I think it forecasts for a very long year. Lonzo can’t score.
Fern says
This games answer why Vander Blue is still in the D-League and was never called up. He blows!!! Oh brother they are going to have a field day with Lonzo and Lavar. Just his first pro game…
dxmanners says
I know it’s only summer league, and he will do better of course, but how does Lonzo live and breathe basketball his whole life and wind up with that ugly a shot? Boggles the mind. Zubac looked terrible, where was Dozier? Bryant much more of an athlete than I expected, runs the floor and plays with energy. Nice surprise.
A Horse With No Name says
Lonzo’s flaws and the struggles he experienced because of them were all on display tonight. It’s going to take a long while for the kid to play at the level of an NBA starter–much less being the face of the franchise. First order of business is to sign or trade for a vet point guard. There is no way he’s ready to lead an NBA team yet–what a laughable delusion!
Brandon was great and is ready to take his game to a much higher level. That’s exciting. For those that remember, I was excited by the team drafting Thomas Bryant, who already looks like a player. I expect him to beat out Zubac, who struggled against a quicker and explosive Brice Johnson.
Fern says
Bryant looks like a keeper. Loved his energy…
drrayeye says
I had to turn off the sound so I could watch the game: hated that the announcers spent the entire broadcast on personalities and a “Lonzo” narrative.
On second thought, maybe they were right . . .
R says
Before they drafted the kid I was worried he might not be able to get his shot off against NBA players.
It’s not like I’m now suddenly relieved, let’s put it that way.
George Best says
The more we are forced to watch Ball play the more we will realize the DAR trade was rushed and unnecessary if not an outright disaster.
LeBron ain’t coming here folks.
Old Timer says
Let me explain why I said bad coaching from Buehler and Madsen!! You have a playmaker PG but I didn’t see any play between PG and Center. The rock did not come back to him therefore nothing can be orchestrated by supposedly the maestro while the catchers’ were frozen and jiggling. Lucky, Chick was no longer around to tell them like it is compared to rosy descriptions from the broadcasters of today like Trudell. Zu is soft, a project player for G league. Bryant is full of energy but still raw. Precisely, the reason why we need to re-sign Tarik as an insurance if Brook gets down. Lakers led by 10 pets, got lackadaisical in 3rd Q. This is what happens when the analytics took over coaching, no running game, no spacing and no movements to get themselves open and each manufacture their own relegated to each his own. Applicants like Caruso and Blue were engaged in iso trying to impress Magic and Pelinka without any beef in their style. Venice Beach teams could easily beat this team anytime of the day with that kind of “walk don’t run” game. Being laker fans we always hope the best that they learned a lesson from this loss that hype and hard work should go hand in hand. There, I got my angst out in this forum. Sorry for the harsh comments on a no bearing game, been watching too much Lakers basketball since Baylor’s time and the Big Dipper.
Fern says
LOL i remember when people here where in an uproar on Russell debut in Summer League. Branding him a bust already. Now the same people are criying because he was traded. Ball was freaking out out there. Thats when all the huge pressure and expectations come back to haunt. He need to calm down and let the game flow to him. I didn’t expect him to shoot 17 freaking times. That’s not his game. His dad saying he has the ROY throphy already wrapped up and Magic annointing him “the face of the franchise” wont help either. On tje other hand Ingram looks like he filled up a bit. No way he’s 195 anymore. Starting to look like a man. Looked pretty good out there last night. He will be pretty good this season.
MT87 says
You think that the same people calling Russell a bust starting with his summer league debut are the same people saying trading him was a mistake? Sorry but that just doesn’t make sense to me.
Anonymous says
Umm… Magic thought Russell was a bust and that’s why he traded him.
TempleOfJamesWorthy says
Being a dominant Summer League player is ***sometimes*** indicative of NBA readiness, but one often has to watch for player attributes beyond the box-score stats.
I recall watching the now-defunct LA summer league at Loyola Marymount (and later at CSULB). Some players (David Robinson, Vlade Divac, Cliff Robinson, Andrew Bynum) stood out as “Yeah, he belongs.” On the other hand, Lester “The Molester” Connor won summer league MVP one year when his NBA ceiling was decent backup PG. Conversely, AC Green was already starting power forward on the 1987 world champion Lakers, but played unremarkably in the summer league.
More recently, we saw Orlando’s Mario Hezonja (sp?) make Summer League highlight reels…and what has he done in actual NBA games?
I hope the young Lakers play well, but I won’t be too disappointed if they don’t. Summer League is a small and not necessarily representative sample of their abilities.
Rick in Seattle says
If the team actually had some thought about winning the game, why the disappearance of Nwaba and Zubac? Why were G-league hot shots Caruso and Blue still in the game when it counted? Were the coaches looking for various player combinations? Bryant certainly impressed. Wonder if he could be used at PF alongside Zubac? Possible twin towers?
On paper, this is one of the most talented summer league teams that the Lakers have had for awhile. But their performance last night was (at minimum) “dismal”. Ball clearly needs to get off the celebrity circuit and get back to playing basketball. In many ways, he looked like a high school kid–which is basically what he is. He needs to use the remainder of the summer to build up physically and begin developing a familiarity with his real team-mates.
Disappointing game all around Hopefully, this caught the attention of Magic & Pelinka. Team still needs more talent. What’s new on KCP? Everything is very quiet. Any trades coming?
Clay Bertrand says
I know its one game……one Summer League game……but Thomas Bryant is making this opening day roster. There is playing time for this guy for sure on this team.
I echo the sentiment that he will supplant Zubac eventually. His energy and size outweigh his lack of elite athleticism. The guy seems to really explode to the rim on dunks—he seems to get to the rim quickly off the floor. But its not because he can jump much. Its his standing reach. At 9’4.5″, with a 25″ standing vertical, the guy can finish quickly.
Lonzo looked okay but that shot needs to fall. Clearly he is immature physically. I think he’d look better in a more structured setting where there isn’t an agenda with each guy trying to accentuate and showcase his own individual game.
That said, he will improve. Hopefully A LOT.
Hart’s long distance shooting is as advertised: BAD. His hustle, grit and mid range/in the paint shots are his bread and butter. His three looks nasty not unlike Ball’s.
Zubac looked sluggish. I thought he would be a little lighter now and be able to at least dominate in limited post ups but he didn’t even do that.
Kuzma was ok. Ingram was great. He’s going to be something special by the time he can legally drink a margarita.
No rationalizing. Lonzo needs to get more comfortable and get some shots to fall. My main complaint and its hard to have a hard core gripe after ONE SUMMER LEAGUE GAME, but Lonzo is too much like Russell.
They both let their LONG BALL success dictate their play. Neither guy seems to want to try to get into the lane, get to the line, get to the rim, or otherwise try to jumpstart their game when their LONG 3s are not falling. That is a great concern.
Cmon man!!!! EVERY shot has to be a 25 footer??? Go to the Freakin HOLE!!!!!!!!!!!! Get fouled. Use free throws to give yourself confidence in your shot and to fine tune it within the game. See the ball go thru the hoop.
Josh Hart shot two UGLY BRICK 3s. Then his next shot was a short jumper in the lane off penetration. THAT was a mature player getting himself on the board and trying to self adjust his game. That is what Lonzo needs to do.
He will get better and better players around him will help as well.
BUT, Lonzo’s main appeal is supposed to be that he makes everyone around him better. What does it say if he needs good players around him to make HIM look even decent (like at UCLA)??????? THAT is a concern of mine.
MT87 says
Great post Clay; agree with all of your observations. I’m so glad to see Ingram taking people off the dribble and getting to the hole because we are going to need someone to break down the defense in the half court and Lonzo really doesn’t look ready for that job.
FredP says
I completely agree with your conclusion but disagree with your comparison to Russell. Lonzo wishes he has Russell’s shooting. Russell can generate his own looks and does well moving around and getting shots off. The last month+ of the season he shot 38% on threes including ones off the dribble. In addition, you could see Russell working on driving and creating shots for others as well as himself. As much as I like a hard drive to the basket followed by a dunk, it is a great way to get yourself injured. Notice Stephen Curry avoids those like the plague. Lonzo has a track record of figuring things out and learning what works and what does not. He got way over-hyped by his father and Magic but he seems to have a pretty level head. However, the issue of not having quality shooters on the floor is beyond his control.
Clay Bertrand says
“However, the issue of not having quality shooters on the floor is beyond his control.”
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Good Point. The whole team shot poorly save for Bryant. I would also agree with you regarding Russell’s improvement post all star break once Lou was moved. He DID start to do more than just bomb 3s.
My comparison was strictly speaking to the way both Russell and Ball are clearly affected when their 3 ball doesn’t fall. Russell is a better more versatile scorer than Ball all day. But he would openly sulk and play even lazier D when his shot wasn’t falling from range. Its the IN GAME player adjustment I am describing. Granted, young players need to develop this ability somewhat.
If your long J isn’t falling, go to plan B go to plan C etc. and pick it up on D!!!! I never saw Russell do that. I saw him more effective in the post than Ball and better at creating his own shot (usually a jumper) off the dribble. But I never saw Russell self adjust and contribute in other ways when his shot was off. AND he usually never recovered once he missed a handful of 3s. I don’t hate Russell and I’m not trying to trash his game.
I just see Lonzo settling for EXTREMELY low % shots and not trying anything else. If you wanna shoot 30 footers, you best be able to make them at a decent clip. Curry is the only guy in the league with that range consistently. He’s amazing.
Lets see what this FOSTON game brings. Lets see how Lonzo bounces back.
PS: GLAD the Lakers are shutting down Ingram. He doesn’t need to go up against these Summer League hacks!!!!!! He was dinged up coming off a bad ankle going into Summer League so why risk something that’ll linger through the Summer??
bright house login says
Wow!!!! summer league championship.